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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-11-10

---Logopened Sun Nov 10 00:00:23 2013
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03:54<andythenorth>o/
03:56<Taede>o/
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03:57<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: can you think of an effective way to detect if a vehicle is the last instance of its type in a consist (assuming 3 part articulated vehicles)
03:57<andythenorth>?
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04:37*andythenorth figures out an alternative solution
04:39<peter1138>Step 1: Give up
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04:41<Taede>step 2: youre bored, try again
04:44<peter1138>:)
04:44<andythenorth>step 3: remember you're supposed to have encrypted your boot drive
04:44<andythenorth>step 4: enrypt, cross fingers it's worked
04:45<Taede>step5: realise you can no longer access your boot drive
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05:00<andythenorth>hmm
05:00<andythenorth>how to check ID of another vehicle in a train consist?
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05:03<andythenorth>I guess I have to check the newgrf ID as well?
05:03<Wolf01>hello
05:03<@Alberth>hello Wolf01, andy
05:04*andythenorth needs someone to help code :P
05:05<@planetmaker>wagons from another newgrf, andythenorth ?
05:05<andythenorth>nah
05:05<andythenorth>same newgrf
05:05<andythenorth>I think there's an 80+ var for it
05:06<@planetmaker>yes
05:06<andythenorth>I figured I also needed to ensure it's same grf?
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05:06<@planetmaker>grfid and vehicle_type_id are what you need
05:07<@planetmaker>don't you ever look at the NML documentation? :-)
05:07<@planetmaker>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Vehicles#Vehicle_variables
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05:07<andythenorth>I have a bad habit of reading the nfo docs instead :P
05:07<andythenorth>and then reading the nml src :P
05:08<@Alberth>:o an expert in nml, that's useful
05:08<@planetmaker>yeah, you can book a plane via brasilia when travelling between london and paris
05:09<andythenorth>hmm
05:09<andythenorth>nml has lots of useful vars
05:09<andythenorth>:)
05:09<andythenorth>biab
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06:43<__ln__>https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/q71/1456024_657483527629485_756865831_n.jpg
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09:02<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: back to 502 again. how long is this "maintenance" supposed to take?
09:02<^Spike^>hmmm
09:02<^Spike^>what url?
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>http://torrent.zoink.it/Haven.S04E04.HDTV.x264-KILLERS.[eztv].torrent
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>err
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>wrong
09:03<^Spike^>uhu...
09:03<@planetmaker>loool
09:03<^Spike^>we don't host that.. you know that right ;)
09:03<Eddi|zuHause>clonehttp://hg.openttdcoop.org/grfcodec
09:03<^Spike^>ah that...
09:03<^Spike^>planetmaker want to put the new url here for temp read access?
09:03<@planetmaker>yes
09:03<^Spike^>or still want to check before doing that
09:03<^Spike^>you sure all private stuff is set to private? :D
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>i really woneder sometimes why it doesn't copy stuff if i said copy stuff
09:04<^Spike^>well at this point: All your repo's belong to me
09:05<^Spike^>atleast according to the website :D
09:05<^Spike^>Eddi|zuHause just let us do our final checks and we might have a good read only fix (within minutes hopefully :D)
09:06<Eddi|zuHause>so... all my checkouts now need to use a different url=
09:06<Eddi|zuHause>?
09:06<^Spike^>well i can't change the hg.openttdcoop.org url atm
09:06<^Spike^>cause of push via ssh
09:06<^Spike^>unless ppl really use the push.openttdcoop.org url :)
09:06<^Spike^>planetmaker? :D
09:07<Eddi|zuHause>i do use the push url for my own repo
09:07<Eddi|zuHause>and the read-only url for all other repos
09:07<Eddi|zuHause>or rather for all repos
09:07<^Spike^>i will not say my personal opinion about past situations atm cause i think it's not the time for that :)
09:07<Eddi|zuHause>i don't use ssh
09:08<^Spike^>i'll just be happy if this works :)
09:12<krinn>i do hg push https... are you saying it'll no more work ?
09:13<^Spike^>just figuring out stuff before i do the rest ok :)
09:14<@planetmaker>krinn, if you need it right now, you need to use ssh, thus provide us with your public ssh key
09:14<^Spike^>we are working on all over https
09:15<krinn>planetmaker, i don't need it right now, it's ok, i was worried it was definitive, while it's seems it's just maintenance
09:16<^Spike^>Eddi|zuHause can you try pull again? should... technically... work better now :)
09:16<@planetmaker>well. might take a few days
09:16<@planetmaker>till push w/o ssh works again
09:16<Eddi|zuHause>yeah
09:16<^Spike^>https://hg.openttdcoop.org
09:16<^Spike^>is read only
09:16<Eddi|zuHause>seems to do
09:19<Eddi|zuHause>i'll scream when i'm ready to push anything :)
09:20<^Spike^>bother planetmaker for that :D
09:20*krinn thinks Eddi|zuHause is in toilet
09:20<^Spike^>i'm already happy this works again
09:27<Eddi|zuHause>what's the command to rebuild the cache where programs are found?
09:27*^Spike^ is innocent
09:27<Eddi|zuHause>i mean the system path
09:30<Eddi|zuHause>> which grfcodec
09:30<Eddi|zuHause>/home/johannes/bin/grfcodec
09:30<Eddi|zuHause>> grfcodec -v
09:30<Eddi|zuHause>bash: /usr/bin/grfcodec: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden
09:31<^Spike^>echo $PATH
09:31<Eddi|zuHause>no, the path is alright
09:31<Eddi|zuHause>it's a cache thing
09:31<^Spike^>hmmmm
09:31<^Spike^>then i don't know :D
09:31<^Spike^>never had that
09:31<Eddi|zuHause>i had this before
09:31<Eddi|zuHause>but i forgot
09:31<^Spike^>init 6
09:31<^Spike^>? :)
09:32<^Spike^>i so hope you didn't type that :D
09:32<Eddi|zuHause>i was aiming for something less interruptive :)
09:32<@Alberth>rehash ?
09:32<^Spike^>dd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sda
09:32<^Spike^>i still wonder what it does...
09:32<Eddi|zuHause>ah, that worked, Alberth
09:33<Eddi|zuHause>^Spike^: either nothing or destroy everything :p
09:33<^Spike^>Eddi|zuHause that's what we've been wondering at work and still want to try...
09:33<@Alberth>it's a shell command, so it depends on what $SHELL you use
09:33<^Spike^>but no-one felt like creating a VM to test it yet :D
09:34<^Spike^>and we only manage 500+ vms so :D
09:34<@Alberth>and no test-vm? :o
09:34<^Spike^>too many..
09:34<^Spike^>but not for that :D
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>^Spike^: it may work totally different with physical or virtual devices :p
09:37<^Spike^>i don't think it will... :)
09:37<^Spike^>vmdks seem to act alot like physical disks :)
09:37<@Alberth>that includes broken sectors? :)
09:37<^Spike^>not in that aspect :D
09:38<peter1138>vmdk implies vmware, ewww
09:38<^Spike^>what you rather have... vmware or hyper-v? :)
09:38<peter1138>kvm myself
09:38<^Spike^>well it's not a bad thing...
09:39<krinn>it's not like it was hard for dd to have a check if==of
09:39<^Spike^>i did a study for my graduation with kvm/xen etc
09:39<^Spike^>krinn you never know :D
09:39<^Spike^>it was the same as a question we had last year at work... what happens when you rm -rf /
09:39<^Spike^>answer: Nothing
09:39<^Spike^>however... if you do rm -rf /*
09:39<^Spike^>it goes like Ok!
09:39<^Spike^>and bye-bye OS :D
09:39<Eddi|zuHause>that DOES have a check for the special case :)
09:40<^Spike^>not the /* case Eddi|zuHause ;)
09:40<krinn>i don't really want dig dd source, but with all complains users keep raising because of misuse (and catastrophic result), sure i would have add that check in it
09:40<Eddi|zuHause>yes
09:40<Eddi|zuHause>can't handle ALL special cases :=)
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09:40<peter1138>rm doesn't see "/*"
09:40<peter1138>cos the shell's already globbed it.
09:40<Eddi|zuHause>"/*" gets expanded before it's passed as command line parameter
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09:41<^Spike^>oh well it was fun to do.. :)
09:41<Eddi|zuHause>so what rm gets is "/bin /boot /usr ..."
09:41<^Spike^>we have a talk about a customer who once did a chmod -R 777 /
09:41<^Spike^>cause perms weren't correct
09:41<^Spike^>then well... his site didn't work.. but neither did his server
09:41<^Spike^>few weeks ago we also had a good one with a customer....
09:41<^Spike^>installed android x86 on his PHYSICAL server....
09:42<^Spike^>and customer was like: I know nothing about that... how did that happen!
09:43<krinn>remember me a friend where he ask customer to fax his floppy content : my friend received the rounded image of the floppy media by fax
09:43<^Spike^>lol
09:43<krinn>and the guy ask if he can recover datas :)
09:44<^Spike^>well we had the most fun when well.. basicly a collegue had to call this customer and tell him android is installed on his server...
09:44<^Spike^>aka we put a second phone listening in on speaker.. closed the door and laughed way too much :D
09:44<^Spike^>the reaction was priceless :)
09:45<krinn>the "i didn't touch anything" quick reaction :)
09:45<^Spike^>:)
09:46<^Spike^>it's not like it wasn't the 3rd time within 1 year this customer fucked up his server
09:46<krinn>like it's well know android likes to move with its little feet and room to install itself into a computer, people are just dumb when get caught doing so stupids things
09:46<^Spike^>first chmod -R 777 /bin
09:46<^Spike^>then rm -rf /bin
09:46<^Spike^>then installed android...
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09:49<krinn>i once saw one that install the cpu on the socket without opening the socket and then of course work hard to plug the fan on it : wonder why intel has move cpu pins to the m/b now?
09:49<^Spike^>:)
10:18<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r25963 /trunk/src (3 files in 2 dirs) (2013-11-10 15:18:49 UTC)
10:18<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5758]: Mixtures of old and new flows could create cycles.
10:22<Eddi|zuHause>i have no idea whether this lukasz guy is a troll, a zealot, overly intelligent, overly stupid, or something entirely different
10:23<^Spike^>....
10:23<^Spike^>prob stuff i'm missing... :)
10:23<@planetmaker>stupid 'which language is better' thread at tt-f @ ^Spike^
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1102776#p1102776
10:24<^Spike^>well tt-f didn't like my registration early
10:24<^Spike^>it detected something spam
10:24<^Spike^>it was either my password my name or my mail
10:24<^Spike^>it said it marked the fields... but i saw no marks :D
10:25*^Spike^ read one post and LMAO :)
10:25<Eddi|zuHause>^Spike^: yes, it gets even worse :p
10:26<krinn>love this one Eddi|zuHause the only way to learn walking is to run a marathon barefoot.
10:27<andythenorth>wha a silly thread :)
10:28<andythenorth>it's convenient that some people blindly assert that 'language x is better'
10:28<andythenorth>it's like having a big sign on their saying 'I am not a very good engineer'
10:29<@planetmaker>:-)
10:31*krinn will start the "Hands drawing > photoshop!"
10:32<andythenorth>just go nuclear
10:32<andythenorth>little endian vs. big endian
10:32<andythenorth>risc vs. cisc
10:32<Eddi|zuHause>people have done pointilism 100 years before photoshop
10:32<andythenorth>emacx vs. vi
10:32<Wolf01>tic vs tac
10:32<andythenorth>hmm obiwan keypress
10:32*andythenorth goes coding stuff
10:32<krinn>sad we couldn't do the motorola mac that kick poor intel pc
10:32<andythenorth>in *all the best* languages
10:33<Eddi|zuHause>everybody should start learning programming by making a compiler
10:33<Eddi|zuHause>because the compiler is the foundation of everything
10:34<LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: no, no, you need to make a cpu, from raw silicon first
10:34<LordAro>too many commas in there :L
10:34<Eddi|zuHause>and you place the silicon by the flap of a butterfly
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10:34<krinn>Eddi|zuHause, you can do program with an hexeditor, asm & no life
10:34<andythenorth>first you have to invent electricity
10:35<Eddi|zuHause>first, you have to invent fire
10:35<Eddi|zuHause>then the wheel
10:35<andythenorth>meh restarting my computer all the time is getting tedious
10:35*andythenorth digresses from the digression
10:35<krinn>andythenorth, i think first automation wasn't using electricity but hands to turn the machinery
10:36<Eddi|zuHause>WHAT?!? you RESTART your computer?!?
10:36<LordAro>invent hands?
10:36<Eddi|zuHause>invent opposable thumbs
10:36<andythenorth>I am booting this laptop from an external USB drive
10:36<LordAro>:o
10:36<andythenorth>every time I move it far, I shut it down, due to paranoia
10:37<Eddi|zuHause>ooh, paranoia...
10:37<krinn>LordAro, no hands need, i've saw code i'm sure was built with feet
10:37<Eddi|zuHause>i guess there is enough reason for that in the modern post-democracy :)
10:37<andythenorth>I am more concerned about the cable detaching than MI5 reading the contents of my memory tbh
10:38<Taede>ductape is your friend there
10:38<LordAro>krinn: :D
10:38<krinn>andythenorth, yeah, but maybe your gf is more worried about her pics in it :)
10:39<Eddi|zuHause>maybe the wife would be worried about the gf's pics in it :p
10:39<krinn>lol Eddi|zuHause
10:40<krinn>wife gets worried for nothing, that's why divorce exists, as there's never nothing
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11:19<Eddi|zuHause>> echo pixa >> .devzone/build/requires
11:20<Eddi|zuHause>will that do what i think it does?
11:20<@planetmaker>no
11:20<V453000>will it do what I think it does?
11:20<@planetmaker>currently not at least. you need the pixa repo available
11:20<@planetmaker>?
11:20<V453000>:P
11:20<V453000>I obviously have no idea
11:21<Eddi|zuHause>currently contains "grfcodec" and "eddi-nml;push"
11:21<@planetmaker>currently that file is basically ignored ;-)
11:21<Eddi|zuHause>how come it works, then?
11:22<^Spike^>currently jenkins does the work... :)
11:22<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, I told cets to use the eddi-nml for building
11:22<@planetmaker>in jenkins build rules
11:23<Eddi|zuHause>so you made the rules from this file, but it won't be updated automatically if i change it?
11:24<@planetmaker>basically yes
11:25<Eddi|zuHause>then i commit this anyway, in case that file is ever used again, but you have to add pixa manually to the compile farm
11:25<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, the Makefile will be used
11:25<@planetmaker>But the dependencies not automatically installed
11:26<@planetmaker>ok
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>i have some half-baked code to detect whether pixa is installed, but i have no clue if the following code handles the then missing image files correctly
11:27<Eddi|zuHause>and i'm not bored enough to test that :p
11:27<^Spike^>well if we know we are missing dependencies... we can just add them to the "Must install by default" list :)
11:28<Eddi|zuHause>now i need some pixa shapes, then i bother you to push things :p
11:29<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, if you want to go the long way, you can install in the Makefile a schroot and then install all dependencies therein ;-)
11:29<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: the makefile is supposed to be for people other than the devzone as well :p
11:29<@planetmaker>:D
11:30<krinn>can newgrf change (does this exist) size of hq (+ than 4 tiles)
11:30<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: the specfile in .devzone, is that ignored as well?
11:30<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: no
11:31<krinn>thank you Eddi|zuHause
11:33<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, currently also yes
11:33<@planetmaker>It's a plan to use those files again. But... the urgency is not on 'high' :)
11:35<@planetmaker>make NML=~/bin/repos/nml-eddi/nmlc
11:35<@planetmaker>make bundle_zip NML=~/bin/repos/nml-eddi/nmlc
11:35<@planetmaker>make bundle_src NML=~/bin/repos/nml-eddi/nmlc
11:35<@planetmaker>^ that's what being called, Eddi|zuHause ;-)
11:35<@planetmaker>+is
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11:41<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: import pixa; import Image <-- those are the two things that need to work
11:42<Eddi|zuHause>where Image is probably some default module
11:42<@planetmaker>image is PIL or pillow
11:43<Eddi|zuHause>ok
11:43<@planetmaker>I guess no NML project works without :-)
11:43<@planetmaker>not even NML itself
11:43<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds safe enough :=)
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11:46<@planetmaker>but looks like I need to setup pixa in the first place :D
11:49<Eddi|zuHause>hmm... new grfcodec takes awfully long...
11:51<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, does pixa have some kind of selftest?
11:51<Eddi|zuHause>no idea
11:51<Eddi|zuHause>ask andythenorth :)
11:52<@planetmaker>^ andythenorth does pixa have some self-test?
11:52<@planetmaker>which I could execute before I update the pixa version on the CF?
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11:55<Eddi|zuHause>loos like CETS has 3 kinds of nforenum warnings left:
11:55<Eddi|zuHause>//!!Warning (109): Offset 71: Property 1D is previously defined at offset 64.
11:55<Eddi|zuHause>//!!Warning (170): Default result cannot be reached.
11:55<Eddi|zuHause>//!!Warning (147): Offset 108: Insufficient stack data for control character 80.
11:55<@planetmaker>disable 170 ;-)
11:56<Eddi|zuHause>nml should put that into the nfo output automatically
11:57<peter1138>nml outputs nfo?
11:57<@planetmaker>since its beginning, yes
11:57<@planetmaker>that's what it started with actually.
11:57<@planetmaker>then grf output was added
11:57<peter1138>Hmm, odd, I thought it didn't.
11:58<Eddi|zuHause>nmlc can choose whether to output grf or nfo
11:58<@planetmaker>so usually there's little need to use the nfo output
11:58<Eddi|zuHause>i think the 147 warning is bogus
11:59<Eddi|zuHause>as i supply the "stack data" via cb23
11:59<Eddi|zuHause>and 109 is probably a nml bug
12:00<Eddi|zuHause>can i pass the ignore parameter to nforenum?
12:01<@planetmaker>nforenum --help ;-)
12:01<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, i found it
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12:06<Eddi|zuHause>so, that part works now finally to some way of satisfaction :)
12:12<@planetmaker>so, pixa should be installed
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12:14<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: if you can do a cets test compile, the "warning: pixa is not installed" line should disappear
12:20<andythenorth>planetmaker: pixa has zero tests ;)
12:21<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: nothing else should happen, as the code is currently unused
12:21<Eddi|zuHause>at least until i push my changes
12:32<andythenorth>it's always fun
12:32<andythenorth>trying to remember my own API :P
12:32<@planetmaker>ok :-)
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13:22<Wolf01>bye
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13:28<@planetmaker>https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/cets/6/ @ Eddi|zuHause
13:29<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i don't see a build log there
13:31<^Spike^>click console?
13:31<^Spike^>https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/cets/6/console
13:31<Eddi|zuHause>ah there it is
13:31<Eddi|zuHause>yeah that looks right
13:34<Eddi|zuHause>build #2 (same rev) had this line: "13:04:56 WARNING: WARNING: pixa is not installed, automatic sprite processing is disabled"
13:34<Eddi|zuHause>not sure why it says "WARNING" twice
13:34<^Spike^>prob cause jenkins detexted it as warning and put that infornt of it? :D
13:35<Eddi|zuHause>doesn't say twice on the other warnings
13:35<Eddi|zuHause>probably my own fault, but doesn't really matter
13:36<Eddi|zuHause>ah, there it is...
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r25964 trunk/src/lang/catalan.txt (2013-11-10 18:45:10 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>catalan - 2 changes by juanjo
14:10<Eddi|zuHause>hm... i need a field based diff...
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14:22<alluke>HTTP Read-Only access is available at https://hg.openttdcoop.org. Should you need to push you can ask for ssh access to the repositories. Sorry for the inconvenience
14:22<alluke>whats this
14:22<^Spike^>what it says?
14:22<alluke>suddenly i cant access the repository anymore
14:23<^Spike^>well you couldn't for 3-4 days cause of some stuff failing
14:23<^Spike^>seems you found out today :)
14:23<alluke>i was there half an hour ago
14:24<^Spike^>what repo?
14:24<alluke>yeah
14:24<alluke>no
14:24-!-zydeco [~zydeco@240.69.18.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #openttd
14:24<alluke>last file downloaded 3-4 hours ago
14:25<alluke>time flies
14:25<^Spike^>working on the read-only part atm
14:29<Eddi|zuHause>how do i ask hg for the unmodified version of a file?
14:29<Eddi|zuHause>as in "redirect this into a different file"
14:30<SpComb>hg cat
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>ah, thanks
14:31<Eddi|zuHause>next: how do i use sed to replace tabs with newlines?
14:31<SpComb>wait what, tabs with newlines?
14:31<@planetmaker>s s/\t/\n/g
14:32<Eddi|zuHause>ah, have to enclose it in ''
14:32<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: use tr?
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14:57<zydeco>heh full screen on mac is nice now
14:57<zydeco>no more cursor getting lost problems
14:57<zydeco>I also made this patch a while ago, but I'm not sure if it's right
14:57<zydeco>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5741
14:58<zydeco>it should probably ask, instead of just opening it without saving your current game
15:05<Supercheese>is default_cargo_type not available for aircraft?
15:06<Eddi|zuHause>did you try?
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15:07<Supercheese>yes
15:08<Supercheese>Unknown property name
15:09<Supercheese>seems cargo capacity is handled quite differently with aircraft
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15:09<Eddi|zuHause>possibly
15:09<Supercheese>I'll try some callbacks
15:10<krinn>probably because aircraft handle two cargos and not only one
15:11<Eddi|zuHause>why is tt-*.com so slow lately?
15:11<Eddi|zuHause>.net
15:12<LordAro>dunno, orudge said he was looking into it
15:12<LordAro>suspected the same problem as before
15:12<Eddi|zuHause>and what was the problem before?
15:14<Eddi|zuHause>Supercheese: i can't find a cargo type property for aircraft in nfo specs, looks like it always assumes passengers
15:14<krinn>but aircraft default is pass+mail
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15:18<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: mail is automatic if first cargo is passengers
15:20<krinn>must be default so, i know 0 aircraft that aren't pass/mail when built
15:22<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: can be done if you set the secondary capacity to 0
15:30<krinn>i see the forum is slow, it must be very slow if even a french can detect it as slow
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15:40<Eddi|zuHause>is there somewhere a list of textual colour names to colour indices?
15:41<Eddi|zuHause>as in "red", "green". "silver"
15:42<krinn>not in string dev manual
15:43<Supercheese>Hmm, I don't recall ever seeing one
15:44<Taede>https://github.com/Xaroth/libottdadmin2/blob/master/libottdadmin2/enums.py <-- will the one at the bottom of that file do?
15:44<krinn>found this one : docs/palettes/ottd-colourtext-palette.jpg
15:44<krinn>well, png not jpg
15:45<Supercheese>that looks to be the proper reference
15:46<Supercheese>although in my checkout that's just in docs, not docs\palettes
15:46<Eddi|zuHause>Taede: no, those are not the indices into the palette
15:46<krinn>Supercheese, from source not checkout
15:50<@planetmaker>uh, the checkout should give you the source ;-)
15:51<krinn>ah yes, it's in docs not palettes
15:51<krinn>(i should close some window, getting hard to see anything)
15:53<Eddi|zuHause>ah... src/table/palettes.h -> _string_colourmap
15:54<Supercheese>Yikes, surprisingly vehement argument on the forums concerning the "best" way to learn programming
15:57<krinn>More vehement than you think :D -> Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.sock' (2) [2002]
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16:13<andythenorth>hmm
16:13*andythenorth adventures in specs
16:14<andythenorth>newgrf specs are slow :)
16:14<juzza1>has anyone any experience in converting images from rgb to ttd palette through the command line? i have tried Gimp and Imagemagick, Gimp quantization algorithm does some weird stuff when converting to custom palette (known bug), and imagemagick discards any unused colours from the color map
16:14<andythenorth>I can do it with PIL, but you'd rather not bother
16:14<juzza1>one way which could work is to include all the palette colours in all of the images, but i don't like that approach
16:15<andythenorth>I automate it with photoshop when I need to do it
16:15<andythenorth>what's wrong with including all the colours in the palette?
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>difficult to do with the animation colours
16:16<@planetmaker>juzza1, if you find a way, please document step-by-step :-)
16:16<andythenorth>hmm
16:16<@planetmaker>I tried those two you mentioned, too ;-)
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>juzza1: you're probably missing a parameter to imagemagic
16:16<juzza1>i meant to literally draw all of the palette colours in the images
16:16<@planetmaker>palette can be given to imagemagic. But meh... result is still bad
16:16<andythenorth>I use PIL to extract a palette from one image, then apply it to others
16:16<andythenorth>but it involves PIL
16:17<andythenorth>you won't like PIL
16:17<andythenorth>meanwhile, did nml get any support for var 61?
16:17<andythenorth>I figured not
16:17<@planetmaker>yes, did. For long.
16:17<@planetmaker>But there are many features which have it ;-)
16:17<@planetmaker>for instance industry tiles
16:18<andythenorth>train var 61 ;)
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16:18<andythenorth>there was none last time I checked
16:18<Supercheese>I use a GIMP script
16:18<Supercheese>found it on the forums somewhere...
16:19<juzza1>well i already tried it, and it cant do 1:1 conversion from rgb to ttd palette
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16:19<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: var[0x61, 0, 0x0000FFFF, %s]
16:19<andythenorth>yeah, that's my current solution :)
16:19<Eddi|zuHause>where %s is the NFO variable
16:19<Supercheese>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=47530&start=80#p934898
16:20<andythenorth>works fine, just wondering about more nml-like syntax
16:20<juzza1>for example, bright red (fc0000) always gets converted to action red (ff0000) which is not good at all
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>well you know the suggestion, write it :p
16:20<andythenorth>:)
16:21*andythenorth is reading nml src to find which var number vehicle_type_id maps to
16:21<andythenorth>hmm 0xC6
16:22<andythenorth>size 16 = word?
16:22<andythenorth>or byte?
16:23<Supercheese>nibble
16:23<andythenorth>nah
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16:24<andythenorth>ach I'll just mask with 0x0000FFFF, probably will work :P
16:28<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that is size 16 :)
16:28<__ln__>ookay, i was watching Gravity 3D in the cinema, and i think people on this channel should watch it as well.
16:29<andythenorth>hmm
16:29<andythenorth>I think I'm doing bad things with articulated part properties
16:29<andythenorth>oh well
16:29<andythenorth>figure that out later :(
16:30-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6ABDD.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:33<__ln__>a sci-fi movie about space flight, with non-fictional technology, and no aliens, and nobody gets shot. and visually great.
16:33<Supercheese>sounds boring :P
16:34<Supercheese>joking aside, it did seem to get rave reviews
16:35<__ln__>doesn't get boring, no.
16:35<andythenorth>hmm
16:36<andythenorth>nml integer ID vs. the ID in var 0xC6?
16:36<andythenorth>do I need to convert the integer ID to a hex repr?
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>what how why?
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>no, nml does all those conversions for you
16:39<andythenorth>how, in the case of a switch checking the result of var 0x61 for a neighbouring vehicle ID?
16:39<andythenorth>how does it do that?
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>switch(var16[blah]) { 0 : x; 1: y; 0xAAB4: z;}
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>*var61
16:41<andythenorth>I'll paste ;)
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>aslo, instead of a number you can give the vehicle's name
16:42<@planetmaker>preferentially actually
16:43<@planetmaker>for readability reasons
16:44<andythenorth>name didn't work
16:44<andythenorth>which suggests my offset is borked
16:44<andythenorth>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2790/
16:44*andythenorth counts on fingers
16:44<andythenorth>maybe also thumb
16:47<andythenorth>hmm, only the depot view is borked, ok, fix that :P
16:49<andythenorth>ho ho it works :)
16:49<andythenorth>thanks
16:50<@planetmaker>g'night
16:51<andythenorth>bye planetmaker
16:52<Eddi|zuHause>enough playing around with pixa/template code, now to introduce some actual templates
16:54<andythenorth>:)
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17:11<andythenorth>night
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17:47<NGC3982>Man.
17:47<NGC3982>If trams was this profitable in real life
17:47<NGC3982>I would be in the wrong biz.
17:48<Supercheese>I once considered adding "teleporter" vehicles to OTTD, but then I realized trunk already has that feature, it's called Distant-Join stations
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>that's because the game doesn't model individual traffic properly
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>(both depriving you of cargo and congesting the roads)
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>Supercheese: and before that it was called station walking
17:49*NGC3982 instantly thought of a portal grf.
17:50<Supercheese>which was just a more cumbersome version of the same thing
17:50<NGC3982>A Portal grf*
17:50<Supercheese>make a Cake cargo, and have no vehicles that can refit to it
17:50<Eddi|zuHause>i never actually played portal
17:51<Eddi|zuHause>even though i downloaded it for free from steam
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17:51<Supercheese>a single playthrough doesn't take much time
17:59<Prof_Frink>Supercheese: No, make a Cake cargo, but limit the production to 0 cakes/month
17:59<Supercheese>yeah, something like that
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18:18<Wolf01>'night
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18:36<peter1138>scrabble gave me... iiioooo
18:38<+glx>good luck
18:54<Eddi|zuHause>i figured it out!!... the guy just has a bite-reflex "all the kids on the internet use it" => "it must be a bad language"
18:54<Eddi|zuHause>without actually knowing what the language does, how it is designed, ...
18:55<+glx>php ?
18:55<Eddi|zuHause>the "beginners should learn C, not python" guy in the forum
18:56<+glx>language depends on the goal
18:56<Eddi|zuHause>yes
18:56<Eddi|zuHause>we all know that :p
18:56<+glx>and python is not the worse to start learning ;)
18:58<Eddi|zuHause>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1102776#p1102776
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19:11<+glx>ok he mixes everything and peek what matches his point
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19:14<krinn>he keep saying OOP this OOP that, it appears he doesn't know python & js can do OOP too ^^
19:14<+glx>yeah OOP is like XML (the solution for everything)
19:15<Eddi|zuHause>then, why does CETS contain almost no OOP?
19:15<krinn>and portage (python) is not well know for been in python, but well know to works pretty good
19:16<+glx>lol VB
19:16<+glx>VB is C# with a weird syntax now
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19:19<krinn>in fact he doesn't like JS because he gets bore accessing DOM :D
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19:25<krinn>i didn't learn programming at school so i'm not sure about that, but from pascal experience, a procedure is just a function that return nothing, is he really arguing about that ?
19:29*Supercheese isn't even sure what object-oriented programming really is
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19:38<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: no, he's mixing up stuff and getting confused that other people use the terms differently than he intended
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---Logclosed Mon Nov 11 00:00:22 2013