| --- | Log | opened Mon Nov 11 00:00:22 2013 |
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| 08:47 | <Nekomaster> | Woah, where did all you people come from? |
| 08:47 | <Nekomaster> | Last time I was on the IRC there was very few people |
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| 08:49 | <Nekomaster> | So anyone alive/awake? |
| 08:49 | <Eddi|zuHause> | uhm, how can that happen? http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2791/ |
| 08:50 | <V453000> | I think it is evil Eddi |
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| 08:50 | <Eddi|zuHause> | it's the only error of that kind |
| 08:51 | <V453000> | my elaborate diagnosis clearly points at evil matter |
| 08:51 | <Eddi|zuHause> | and it was fine yesterday |
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| 08:51 | <Eddi|zuHause> | and i didn't touch that part at all |
| 08:51 | <Nekomaster> | You know, I wonder why we continue to make ourselves suffer with coding in NFO/NML when we could just have text files with much simpler layouts/coding |
| 08:52 | <Nekomaster> | Rather then use complicated C++ like coding and commands, why not just have text files with the vehicle stats and code for the sprites and offsets? |
| 08:53 | <Eddi|zuHause> | you do realize that my set consists almost exclusively of https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkXAVZqXTFQxdHM3UlpWM1hPZWpfeTlkdnZsMldjSkE&hl=de#gid=0 ? |
| 08:54 | <Nekomaster> | the link keeps loading |
| 08:54 | <Nekomaster> | ok it loaded |
| 08:55 | <Eddi|zuHause> | that's all there is, except for the images |
| 08:55 | <juzza1> | Nekomaster: do a lot more than just stats + graphics, i dont really understand what you are trying to say |
| 08:55 | <juzza1> | +newgrfs do |
| 08:55 | <Nekomaster> | What I ment is, have the stats like Power, speed, weight, traction, etc, plus any switches like "Articulated" or "Dual headed", in plane and simple english |
| 08:56 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Nekomaster: that's EXACTLY what i do in that link |
| 08:58 | <Nekomaster> | Name : "EMD F-Unit" // Introduction : 1942 // Life : 30 // Decay : 20 // Weight : 120 // Speed : 104 // Sprite : EMD_F_Unit.png |
| 08:58 | <Nekomaster> | something like that, but perhaps each a seperate line |
| 08:59 | <juzza1> | thats how you input stats in NML |
| 08:59 | <Nekomaster> | And in case I havent made my self clear, I'm talking about making it easier to add vehicles to OpenTTD |
| 08:59 | <Nekomaster> | Nu-uh, I've looked at NML, its much more complicated then what I just posted |
| 08:59 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Nekomaster: it won't get any easier than that table above |
| 08:59 | <Nekomaster> | I wasn't talking about tracking tables |
| 09:00 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Nekomaster: it's not a "tracking table", it's the whole set. just press a button (or two) and it creates a newgrf |
| 09:00 | <Nekomaster> | oh |
| 09:00 | <juzza1> | example of a very simple wagon in NML: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/finnishtrainset/repository/entry/src/coaches/co_c.pnml |
| 09:01 | <juzza1> | never mind the ugly aligment |
| 09:01 | <Nekomaster> | Ahh |
| 09:01 | <Nekomaster> | I tried NML and I still don't understand it after looking at those NML tutorials |
| 09:01 | <V453000> | trying to code it helps (: |
| 09:02 | <V453000> | the code is quite trivial tbh |
| 09:02 | <Nekomaster> | when I took programing in high school that was more understandable then NML setup |
| 09:02 | <V453000> | sounds seriously strange |
| 09:02 | <Nekomaster> | although NML is much less complicated then NFO, I still can't wrap my head around it |
| 09:02 | <Eddi|zuHause> | hm... i think nforenum has an issue with sprite 65536 |
| 09:02 | <Nekomaster> | Visual Basic and C++ was much easier then NML |
| 09:04 | <juzza1> | maybe it would be more helpful if you tried to go through each step in the tutorial, and then ask if you dont understand something particular |
| 09:04 | <blathijs> | Isn't the reason that NML is complicated that it has to be compile to newgrf/nfo, which is just a fairly limited format compared to regular programming languages / machine code? |
| 09:05 | <Nekomaster> | but couldn't we just make a compiler that takes a plain english set up and translate it to GRF format for openttd/ttdp |
| 09:05 | <juzza1> | NML is that, it doesn't get any easier if you want to use all of the newgrf features |
| 09:06 | <V453000> | make it :) |
| 09:06 | <V453000> | NML is easy as hell |
| 09:06 | <Nekomaster> | I have an example of a mod file from a content pack I'm making for flans mod for Minecraft |
| 09:06 | <Nekomaster> | https://www.dropbox.com/s/o969ys44an26sr1/AK47.txt |
| 09:06 | <V453000> | Difference from NML? |
| 09:06 | <Nekomaster> | Why can't we have something like this instead of complex NML coding where everything has to be a certain way with funky commands and such |
| 09:06 | <V453000> | Speed: 120; |
| 09:06 | <V453000> | gg |
| 09:07 | <V453000> | idk how that is a funky command |
| 09:07 | <Nekomaster> | I dunno how to explain it any better |
| 09:07 | <Nekomaster> | last I looked at NML it looked more like C++ programming code |
| 09:07 | <V453000> | also perhaps sometimes it could be useful to define the speed by some conditon like a switch thingy |
| 09:08 | <Nekomaster> | Hmm |
| 09:08 | <V453000> | I dont think wiriting NML is not even coding |
| 09:08 | <V453000> | just filling train values really |
| 09:08 | <Nekomaster> | I still dont understand it |
| 09:08 | <Nekomaster> | like I said I looked at the tutorials they have for NML |
| 09:08 | <V453000> | http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nuts/repository/changes/nuts.nml |
| 09:08 | <V453000> | like I said, tutorials wont solve anything you have to try to code the thing |
| 09:09 | <juzza1> | yeah if you just read it and don't write any code, you won't learn a thing |
| 09:09 | <V453000> | ^ |
| 09:09 | <Nekomaster> | I did try to code, I tookt he example road vehicle thing and tried to change the name and give it a different sprite and it didn't work |
| 09:09 | <V453000> | I dont get how could you do that wrongly |
| 09:09 | <Nekomaster> | Only thing I've managed in NML is the NML-Categories system that I made |
| 09:09 | <V453000> | but well, resigning probably isnt very constructiev either :) |
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| 09:11 | <Nekomaster> | I don't want to resign though, with the way OzTrains has coded the canadian trainset, I'm getting kinda irritated that he's made it so restrictive |
| 09:11 | <V453000> | who cares about simuscape trash :) |
| 09:12 | <V453000> | but yeah getting pissed off at other graphics is very good in order to get yourself to code something :D |
| 09:12 | <V453000> | how do you think NUTS started |
| 09:12 | <Nekomaster> | I'm looking at the NML for nuts and nothing makes sense to me |
| 09:12 | <Nekomaster> | this is why I hate NML just as much as I do NFO |
| 09:13 | <V453000> | well nothing will make sense automatically obviously |
| 09:13 | <juzza1> | it's all in one file so you can't understand it quickly |
| 09:13 | <V453000> | idk I have a lot more problems with understanding multi-file than one file if I am a starter |
| 09:14 | <V453000> | all you do for e.g. a train: 1: define sprites, 2. load sprites in the item thingy - and define stats at item thingy |
| 09:14 | <blathijs> | Nekomaster: Can you point out something specific that does not make sense to you? |
| 09:14 | <V453000> | extra things like spritegroup for loading stages, specific switch for graphics, etc |
| 09:14 | <Nekomaster> | the use of strings to define commands for certain things |
| 09:14 | <V453000> | blathijs: nuffin :p |
| 09:15 | <blathijs> | Nekomaster: Looking at the NML format, it looks pretty much like it's mostly property: value pairs, so I guess that part is clear? |
| 09:15 | <Nekomaster> | I can see that but I can't clearly see where vehicles are and other parts of code are |
| 09:16 | <blathijs> | (disclaimer, I never worked with NML, so I'm just trying to get the problem defined more clearly, I probably can't solve it :-p) |
| 09:16 | <Nekomaster> | *sigh* why can't I ever understand anything complex... |
| 09:16 | <V453000> | all I can say for now is that I might write a starter guide to newGRF creation during christmas holidays |
| 09:16 | <V453000> | :P |
| 09:17 | <Nekomaster> | It would be nice to have a simple step by step guide that shows how to make a couple vehicles rather then just one |
| 09:17 | <V453000> | wait what |
| 09:17 | <V453000> | couple vehicles = copypaste one? |
| 09:17 | <Nekomaster> | thats another problem with the tutorials, they only tell you how to do one, and not multiple vehicles |
| 09:17 | <V453000> | wtf :D |
| 09:18 | <Nekomaster> | Last time I checked you need more code for mutliple vehicles then just a single vehicle |
| 09:18 | <V453000> | obviously |
| 09:19 | <V453000> | like how about to take code of one vehicle and copypaste it |
| 09:19 | <V453000> | you got two suddenly |
| 09:19 | <V453000> | magix |
| 09:19 | <Nekomaster> | i didn't mean like that |
| 09:19 | <V453000> | obviously you dont need to copypaste e.g. sprite templates but yeah |
| 09:19 | <V453000> | well you might not have meant it that way but that is pretty much how you do it :D |
| 09:19 | <Nekomaster> | this doesnt help that I'm trying to quit smoking and have anger problems |
| 09:20 | <V453000> | I dont get how do you get an anger problem when trying to ctrl+c ctrl+v |
| 09:20 | <Nekomaster> | and i dunno what it is but I can't wrap my head around complex things till someone breaks it down |
| 09:20 | <V453000> | this isnt a complex thing |
| 09:21 | <Nekomaster> | the copypasta isn't the problem, its the coding part |
| 09:21 | <V453000> | well, having coded one vehicle successfully means you can do multiple |
| 09:21 | <V453000> | so I dont understand how is multiple vehicles the problem |
| 09:21 | <Nekomaster> | Where can I get a gun? |
| 09:21 | <Nekomaster> | to shot my self |
| 09:22 | <V453000> | draw a gun then code it, use it later |
| 09:22 | <Nekomaster> | I can do that for minecraft, at least making a content pack for Flan's mod is MUCH MUCH easier then coding NML |
| 09:23 | <V453000> | well then perhaps minecraft has less properties and stuf than openttd |
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| 09:24 | <Nekomaster> | yes, but what I'm getting at is with the simpiler system I've been using to make content for Flans Mod, I dont get why we can't do something like what I posted, but with OpenTTD values and such |
| 09:24 | <V453000> | do it, who stops you |
| 09:25 | <Nekomaster> | I don't know C++ so how can I make a program that translates plain english to GRF files? |
| 09:25 | <V453000> | learn C++ ? |
| 09:25 | <V453000> | or idk whatever do you need for that |
| 09:25 | <Nekomaster> | Not so easy when you have a brain that shuts down looking at anything big and complex |
| 09:26 | <V453000> | perhaps start from the smaller things |
| 09:26 | <Nekomaster> | Big mess > shutdown, NML coding > shutdown, Lots of sprite work to do > shutdown |
| 09:26 | <Nekomaster> | Thats why I'm saying we need a step-by-step tutorial on how to code a NML vehicle set |
| 09:27 | <V453000> | look, I managed to code vehicles, that means anybody can do it |
| 09:27 | <Nekomaster> | I can't continue making my Generic Australian Rail Set, make my own North American Train Set, or continue the North American Road Vehicle set with GRF Maker, and currently NML just goes over my head |
| 09:28 | <blathijs> | Nekomaster: I still don't really understand what is the fundamental difference between NML and the minecraft stuff you posted, other than that you apparently don't understand parts of NML and somehow didn't manage to get two vehicles in NML (even though people here seem to agree that just copy-pasting the same code once more, perhaps changing some id values, should work) |
| 09:28 | <V453000> | I will send you a short example ofa vehicle with comments if you are around during some evening and remind me about it |
| 09:28 | <blathijs> | Nekomaster: In essence, both seem to be property+value lists |
| 09:28 | <V453000> | european evenings that is |
| 09:28 | <V453000> | but yeah as blathijs sez |
| 09:28 | <Nekomaster> | thats another problem, nobody ever comments the NML code in the tutorials |
| 09:29 | <blathijs> | Nekomaster: It seems that the MC stuff uses multiple files (I think), where an NML file uses multiple blocks, but that's just a detail |
| 09:29 | <Nekomaster> | so I don't understand what commands\values do |
| 09:29 | <blathijs> | Nekomaster: You do know there is a reference for all properties? |
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| 09:29 | <Nekomaster> | nope |
| 09:29 | <DanMacK> | Hello all |
| 09:29 | <juzza1> | http://www.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NMLTutorial full of comments, everything explained etc. I personally started NML from that |
| 09:30 | <V453000> | ye |
| 09:30 | <blathijs> | juzza1: Yeah, the comments aren't too bad either there |
| 09:30 | <blathijs> | Nekomaster: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Main and http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Properties_and_variables_and_callbacks in particular |
| 09:30 | <Nekomaster> | Yeah thats the page I went to to learn NML |
| 09:31 | <Nekomaster> | I spent a day on that and only figured out enough to make that NML-Category system I made |
| 09:31 | <Nekomaster> | which is probably buried in the forums now |
| 09:53 | <Nekomaster> | btw, how are offsets handled? Do they define the position of a sprite and the center/one of the corners or something like that? |
| 09:55 | <Eddi|zuHause> | the anchor point is the back (hidden) corner of the bounding box |
| 09:56 | <Nekomaster> | ahh |
| 09:56 | <Eddi|zuHause> | if you have newgrf developer tools enabled, press ctrl+b to see the bounding box |
| 09:57 | <Nekomaster> | ungh.... and now my motivation to learn NML is dead because I just remembered how much work goes into the offsets and sprite positions and all that stuff |
| 09:57 | <Nekomaster> | *smashes head off desk repeatedly* |
| 09:58 | <Nekomaster> | I'd rather be doing pixel art and have a reliable coder then have to code everything my self as well |
| 09:58 | <V453000> | enjoy |
| 09:58 | <Nekomaster> | enjoy what? |
| 09:58 | <Nekomaster> | what is there to enjoy? |
| 09:58 | <V453000> | everything |
| 09:59 | <V453000> | why do it if you dont enjoy it |
| 09:59 | <V453000> | ps, once you get a template to work you can use it allll the time |
| 09:59 | <Nekomaster> | I enjoy pixel art, I don't enjoy coding |
| 09:59 | <V453000> | soo there isnt that much terrible offset stuff |
| 09:59 | <V453000> | idk, I honestly dont understand how can someone only draw e.g. vehicles |
| 09:59 | <V453000> | it just fits together, I dont want to rely on anyone else to make it work |
| 10:00 | <frosch123> | "I have a 100/10Mbit connection (yeah, only 10Mbit up). Could this be sufficient for a 100-150 player server?" <- what game is he taking about? |
| 10:00 | <frosch123> | +l |
| 10:00 | <Nekomaster> | Good for you |
| 10:00 | <Nekomaster> | it must be nice being rich or living in europe |
| 10:00 | <V453000> | well yeah |
| 10:00 | <Nekomaster> | but as you can see here I don't think i'm too bad with spriting http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=144337 |
| 10:01 | <V453000> | quite ugly tbh, not much contrast |
| 10:01 | <V453000> | try harder :P |
| 10:01 | <Nekomaster> | ... |
| 10:01 | <Nekomaster> | I don't know how to apply more contrast without things being too bright |
| 10:01 | <V453000> | I always use all 8 shades of colours |
| 10:02 | <V453000> | otherwise you just arent using the palette fully |
| 10:02 | <V453000> | -> less contrast, dull looking stuff |
| 10:02 | <Nekomaster> | I give up |
| 10:02 | <Nekomaster> | I dont even know why I try sometimes |
| 10:02 | <V453000> | presumably because you want to reach some result |
| 10:02 | <V453000> | which probably wont happen by giving up :P |
| 10:03 | <V453000> | I redrew every sprite for nuts at least once to improve it, for comparison |
| 10:03 | <Nekomaster> | I give it my best and people are always better to the point I dont even know why i try |
| 10:03 | <V453000> | it just takes effort, just like most other constructive things do |
| 10:03 | <Nekomaster> | also, right now... I havent sprited in years |
| 10:03 | <V453000> | see |
| 10:03 | <V453000> | that doesnt sound like much effort |
| 10:03 | <V453000> | I draw sprites almost every day |
| 10:03 | <Nekomaster> | ive gotten rusty and ive lost all motivation to do spriting yet I want to |
| 10:04 | <Nekomaster> | I use to draw sprites when I was in class during high school |
| 10:04 | <Nekomaster> | some of my best work was during class |
| 10:04 | <Nekomaster> | I hate how everything feels so blah and boring now.... wtf is wrong with me |
| 10:05 | <V453000> | I am afraid I cant help you with that |
| 10:05 | <Nekomaster> | no one seems to be able to help me with that |
| 10:05 | <V453000> | I can give you hints what to improve so you could build on that :) but that is about it |
| 10:05 | <Nekomaster> | it would seem im going to live the rest of my life bored |
| 10:06 | <V453000> | enjoy |
| 10:06 | <Nekomaster> | so bored and unmotivated i'd rather die |
| 10:06 | <V453000> | enjoy :) |
| 10:07 | <Nekomaster> | enough of that |
| 10:07 | <Nekomaster> | I do not enjoy being bored |
| 10:07 | <V453000> | then go do something else lol :D |
| 10:07 | <Nekomaster> | do what |
| 10:08 | <Nekomaster> | everything is boring, nothing has that draw that some things use to have |
| 10:08 | <V453000> | beer and tits never gets old |
| 10:08 | <Nekomaster> | I use to be crazy about openttd and simcity and fallout 3, but now all that is boring |
| 10:09 | <Nekomaster> | I'm broke and I live in canada, strip clubs are almost non-existant around where i live |
| 10:09 | <V453000> | I didnt say strip clubs ... |
| 10:09 | <V453000> | I believe it will be easy to get a pair of boobs with your expression of enjoyment about everything |
| 10:09 | <Nekomaster> | well you said tits so I assumed you ment a strip-club |
| 10:10 | <Nekomaster> | .................. |
| 10:10 | <@planetmaker> | strip club comes from stripes, yes? Like http://media.auvito.de/images/cache/e4/0a/36/e40a36430cdbc15d564aa4e71571ce78.jpg?http%3A%2F%2Fi21.ebayimg.com%2F07%2Fi%2F000%2F9e%2F2a%2Fdad6_1_bo.JPG,400,400,,,,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,-1,0,0,0 ? |
| 10:10 | <V453000> | all im saying is man the fuck up and go do something you like :) |
| 10:10 | <Nekomaster> | even if I tried getting a girl right now I think I'd bore them to death |
| 10:10 | <Nekomaster> | Theres many things I like, everything has lost its luster |
| 10:11 | <V453000> | pm that looks dangerous :D |
| 10:11 | <Nekomaster> | I dont even know what happened, after about a year of being out of school lif got boring |
| 10:11 | <V453000> | We probably wont be able to help you with that Nekomaster sooo yeah |
| 10:11 | <Nekomaster> | I know |
| 10:11 | <Nekomaster> | i guess i should just shut up then... |
| 10:12 | <V453000> | grab a beer, start the cheer |
| 10:12 | <Nekomaster> | anyways |
| 10:12 | <Nekomaster> | I wish I could have some beer or a joint.... but I'm so broke that we're short on rent this month by 27 dollars |
| 10:12 | <Nekomaster> | and its not like theres much work around here for a 21 year old without experience |
| 10:13 | <Nekomaster> | Infact when I had a job for a short while earlier this year... that was more fun then coming home and sitting on my computer |
| 10:13 | <V453000> | enjoy |
| 10:14 | <@Rubidium> | Eddi|zuHause: congratulations?!? |
| 10:15 | <Nekomaster> | And then public transport had to ruin it for me |
| 10:15 | <NGC3982> | While having the worst rating possible in a given town, does it -ever- help to bulldoze areas and re-plant trees? |
| 10:15 | <Nekomaster> | being ill for a few days and then the busses a few times where late on the weekends when I needed to be at work, so I'd be 2 hours late |
| 10:15 | <NGC3982> | Or does that simply remove and add the same rating again? |
| 10:16 | <Nekomaster> | hmm |
| 10:16 | <Nekomaster> | I typically bulldoze and replant |
| 10:16 | <NGC3982> | I can't seem to make it work. |
| 10:16 | <Nekomaster> | Towns can only hate you so much till you reach the lower limit |
| 10:16 | <Nekomaster> | You need to bulldoze LOTS of trees |
| 10:16 | <V453000> | you cant raise authority if there was crash or bribe |
| 10:16 | <V453000> | other cases it should work |
| 10:16 | <NGC3982> | Oh, darn. I bribe'd them some time ago. |
| 10:17 | <V453000> | unsuccessful bribe that was |
| 10:17 | <NGC3982> | The bribe was successfull, though. |
| 10:17 | <V453000> | if you get punished basically |
| 10:17 | <NGC3982> | -l |
| 10:17 | <NGC3982> | Ok. |
| 10:17 | <V453000> | just kill a lot of trees and replant, should do it |
| 10:18 | <V453000> | if in singleplayer, you could enable magic dozer not to lose authority points |
| 10:18 | <V453000> | even better |
| 10:18 | <Nekomaster> | Sometimes I wish I could murder the council of towns when I've done everything to get them to like me, and yet they wont let me remove a building or peice of road I need to move to build a station or my network |
| 10:18 | <Nekomaster> | I use cheats but lately I'm trying to do things the good ol fasion way by playing without cheats |
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| 10:20 | <Nekomaster> | BTW, does anyone have an old version of the Canadian town names grf? the new version doesnt like being added with other grfs unless they're canadian |
| 10:20 | <Nekomaster> | set grfs |
| 10:20 | <Pinkbeast> | Nekomaster: I tend to start operations in every town with a tram line, which builds up a good reserve of rating for when I need it. |
| 10:20 | <Pinkbeast> | ... and also means, no matter how bad things get, I'm not in the situation where my rating's so bad I can't build stations, and yet I need stations to recover rating. |
| 10:21 | <NGC3982> | V453000: It did work. Although, "a lot of trees" was an understatement. |
| 10:21 | <NGC3982> | :D |
| 10:21 | <Nekomaster> | lol |
| 10:22 | <krinn> | NGC3982, for my AI, tests show you get the best by removing all trees (get hate at max), then bribe |
| 10:22 | <Nekomaster> | sometimes I wish there was a cheat that let you nuke towns, litterally, like wipe out large swaths of land and put a hole in the ground at the same time (rather then just demolish an area by hand and then dig a hole) |
| 10:22 | <Eddi|zuHause> | <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: congratulations?!? <-- for reaching 64k sprites? yes. thanks :p |
| 10:23 | <Nekomaster> | 64,000 sprites? WTF? |
| 10:23 | <krinn> | as a success bribe put you back in love, but a bad to a lower hate rating |
| 10:23 | <Nekomaster> | save before you bribe if you can |
| 10:23 | <Pinkbeast> | Nekomaster: I thought you weren't cheating? |
| 10:24 | <krinn> | It's in the wiki -> Unsuccessful bribe n/a Set to -50. |
| 10:24 | <NGC3982> | krinn: I see. |
| 10:24 | <krinn> | so remove all trees, goes to -1000 : bad bribe upto -50 |
| 10:24 | <@Rubidium> | Eddi|zuHause: it's not quite liking to compile at all for me though |
| 10:24 | <krinn> | and you need few trees then |
| 10:24 | <Pinkbeast> | krinn: Cor, that's a bit gamey. |
| 10:25 | <krinn> | that's the rule : but you'll have to put money in bribe anyway |
| 10:25 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Rubidium: i haven't pushed my latest changes yet. but the version on devzone did compile properly |
| 10:25 | <V453000> | Nekomaster: that is the amoutn of sprites you get with a lot of effort :))) |
| 10:25 | <krinn> | or going from -1000 to -200 with only trees, would create the amazon |
| 10:25 | <@Rubidium> | Eddi|zuHause: it ain't for me |
| 10:25 | <krinn> | /s on/onia |
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| 10:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Rubidium: you need eddi-nml |
| 10:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | because $someone was against including actionC support |
| 10:27 | <@Rubidium> | I'm currently hitting a gcc misfeature |
| 10:27 | <Eddi|zuHause> | oh, the standard header thingie |
| 10:27 | <@Rubidium> | yup |
| 10:28 | <Eddi|zuHause> | try editing scripts/Makefile.in and replace the .onml line with this: $(_V) $(CC) -I. -I./src/ -D REPO_REVISION=$(REPO_REVISION) -C -E -nostdinc -x c-header -o $@ $< |
| 10:30 | <@Rubidium> | are the comments used in later steps? |
| 10:30 | <@Rubidium> | let me guess... they are |
| 10:30 | <Eddi|zuHause> | they are needed for "partial compilation" |
| 10:31 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i could try to make it detect whether eddi-nml is installed and output a version without that. but not today |
| 10:31 | <Eddi|zuHause> | but chances are it will blow up with OOM then |
| 10:32 | <Nekomaster> | I kinda feel like making some sprites, but I know once i open up GIMP ill just close it after 5 seconds |
| 10:32 | <Nekomaster> | The want is high but the motivation is low |
| 10:33 | <Eddi|zuHause> | planetmaker: how is push support coming along? |
| 10:35 | * | peter1138 pushes Eddi|zuHause |
| 10:35 | <Eddi|zuHause> | WAAAH |
| 10:36 | <Nekomaster> | Could someone help me with something? what vehicle size would the MP4040CH-3C fit? 7/8 or 8/8 (example picture http://www.rail-pictures.com/bilder/go-transit-803.jpg ) |
| 10:37 | <Eddi|zuHause> | 12/8 |
| 10:37 | <Nekomaster> | o_o |
| 10:37 | <@Rubidium> | Eddi|zuHause: what countries are supposed to be covered by that set? |
| 10:37 | <@Rubidium> | it looks kinda "Germany-ish only" |
| 10:37 | <Nekomaster> | Last I remember a MP40 is around the size of a F59PH |
| 10:38 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Rubidium: we temporarily removed the austrian and swiss vehicles to get it to compile, but i'll restore those now that partial compilation is workable |
| 10:38 | <Nekomaster> | Then again, Eddi, you work with a larger scale right? |
| 10:39 | <Eddi|zuHause> | technically, i work with a slightly smaller scale. but it's "properly" scaled length-wise |
| 10:39 | <Nekomaster> | Ahh.... still, I don't think an MP40 is 12/8 |
| 10:39 | <Eddi|zuHause> | (it's not entirely possible) |
| 10:40 | <Eddi|zuHause> | in my scale, 12/8 would be 24m. most engines are shorter than that, most modern wagons longer |
| 10:40 | <Nekomaster> | going with NARS scale 12/8 would probably be a Mallet/Santa Fe |
| 10:40 | <@Rubidium> | the devzone head doesn't trigger the nforenum bug though |
| 10:41 | <Nekomaster> | Im actually kinda confused about TTD's messed up scaling. Which is unrealistically bigger? The vehicles or the buildings? |
| 10:41 | <@Rubidium> | could you attach the compressed nfo? |
| 10:41 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Rubidium: i can give you the current NFO, and if necessary the graphics. |
| 10:43 | <Nekomaster> | doot |
| 10:44 | <@Rubidium> | the NFO would definitely be needed, don't think the graphics are needed though |
| 10:44 | <@Rubidium> | and the NFO is only half a MB or so (when compressed) |
| 10:44 | <Eddi|zuHause> | 448816 11. Nov 15:41 cets.nfo.xz |
| 10:45 | <@planetmaker> | Eddi|zuHause, as said, I'm happy to offer you ssh push access for now |
| 10:45 | <Eddi|zuHause> | planetmaker: maybe tomorrow |
| 10:45 | <Eddi|zuHause> | gtg now |
| 10:46 | <Nekomaster> | Hmm.... if I did a Canadian/North American train set, which scale would be more appropriate? TTD scale or something larger like the scale used in xUSSR or CETS |
| 10:46 | <@planetmaker> | just send me the public key of yours by whatever means and I'll add it |
| 10:46 | <Eddi|zuHause> | uhm, why did it upload the file twice? |
| 10:46 | <Eddi|zuHause> | planetmaker: i'll need someone to walk me through creating one |
| 10:46 | <@planetmaker> | you surprise me, Eddi|zuHause :-) |
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| 10:46 | <Nekomaster> | I do a Canadian/North American train set, which scale would be more appropriate? TTD scale or something larger like the scale used in xUSSR or CETS |
| 10:46 | <Nekomaster> | If I do* |
| 10:47 | <Eddi|zuHause> | planetmaker: practical appliances are always a mystery to me :) |
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| 10:48 | <Nekomaster> | ... |
| 10:48 | <Eddi|zuHause> | planetmaker: like setting up a compile environment and stuff :) |
| 10:49 | <Nekomaster> | *head desk* |
| 10:49 | <@planetmaker> | Eddi|zuHause, windows or linux? |
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| 10:50 | <NekoMaster> | Anyone? Any advice on scale? |
| 10:50 | <@planetmaker> | NekoMaster, whatever suits *you* |
| 10:51 | <@planetmaker> | it's the artistic license any artist has |
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| 10:51 | <NekoMaster> | I'm use to TTD scale but I kinda like the look of CETS/xUSSR scale |
| 10:51 | <NekoMaster> | Plus north american trains are typically bigger then most european trains except for Russian/Eastern Bloc stuff |
| 10:52 | <@planetmaker> | http://kb.site5.com/shell-access-ssh/how-to-generate-ssh-keys-and-connect-to-your-account-with-putty/ @ Eddi|zuHause (if you're on windows). Otherwise just run ssh-keygen |
| 10:55 | <NekoMaster> | You know, now that I look at it, vehicles like trains look smaller then they should be compared to the buildings and trees |
| 10:55 | <Pinkbeast> | NekoMaster: I think the thing to ask is, which existing sets might yours combine nicely with? |
| 10:55 | <@planetmaker> | Eddi|zuHause, a lot shorter and less cluttered: http://blog.muhammada.li/setting-up-ssh-access-to-bitbucket-on-windows |
| 10:55 | <Eddi|zuHause> | planetmaker: linux |
| 10:55 | <Pinkbeast> | For example, I often want a smattering of 2cc vehicles in UKRS2 games, so I prefer they are not in wildly disproportionate scales |
| 10:56 | <NekoMaster> | Well part of this is why I'm asking if I should go with a larger scale. Larger scale = more detail\different but might not bode well with other sets |
| 10:56 | <@planetmaker> | Eddi|zuHause, then just run ssh-keygen. And give us ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub |
| 10:56 | <Pinkbeast> | NekoMaster: You're stuck with the existing track gauge; I wouldn't make a huge change. |
| 10:56 | <@planetmaker> | NekoMaster, add 'more details' to the sprites for higher zoom levels |
| 10:57 | <@planetmaker> | i.e. provide special sprites for 2x and 4x zoom. |
| 10:57 | <@planetmaker> | you can put *a lot* of detail into those |
| 10:57 | <NekoMaster> | dont start talking about that... you'll make me think about more work and kill my mojo XD |
| 10:57 | <NekoMaster> | I just want to do some default zoom stuff |
| 10:58 | <NekoMaster> | So could the scale that NARS uses be acceptable for North American rail vehicles? |
| 10:58 | <NekoMaster> | because like I said, TTD\NARS scale kinda looks a little smaller then a train should be |
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| 11:02 | <adf89> | hi |
| 11:02 | <NekoMaster> | hoo-hum |
| 11:02 | <adf89> | i see that mip-mapping is discussed |
| 11:02 | <adf89> | being discussed |
| 11:02 | <NekoMaster> | mip-mapping? |
| 11:03 | <NekoMaster> | wtf is mip mapping anyways? |
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| 11:03 | <adf89> | separate sprites for differnt zoom levels |
| 11:03 | <Nekomaster> | ARGH! I hate the back button on my mouse sometimes |
| 11:03 | <Nekomaster> | And I see |
| 11:03 | <adf89> | i know they are available for 32bpp |
| 11:04 | <Nekomaster> | Though I'm currently not in the mood to draw multiple zoom levels |
| 11:04 | <adf89> | what about 8bpp? |
| 11:04 | <@planetmaker> | adf89, yes... iirc there's a nearly complete implementation in icosahedron |
| 11:04 | <Nekomaster> | I just want to draw some default zoom stuff, but I'm still undecided with the scale |
| 11:04 | <@planetmaker> | adf89, and no, bit depth is totally irrelevant and they're not exactly available there, too |
| 11:04 | <@planetmaker> | zooming for those need be handled the same for those like for any other sprite |
| 11:05 | <adf89> | yes, i know some code details |
| 11:05 | <@planetmaker> | (and should - least duplication principle :-) ) |
| 11:05 | <adf89> | i just want to ask |
| 11:05 | <adf89> | what about 8bpp |
| 11:05 | <adf89> | ? |
| 11:05 | <Nekomaster> | What about 8bpp? |
| 11:05 | <@planetmaker> | sprites need not be done. But they do exist for 1x, 1.5x and 2x OpenGFX |
| 11:07 | <adf89> | will there be "mipmapping" in 8bpp ? |
| 11:07 | <Nekomaster> | I believe thats done in 8bpp for 8bpp graphics |
| 11:08 | <@planetmaker> | adf89, what is 'mipmapping'? you mean the automatic scaling? |
| 11:08 | <adf89> | i mean a possibility |
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| 11:08 | <peter1138> | adf89, yes, you can provide different zoom levels for 8bpp sprites. |
| 11:08 | <adf89> | to provide differnt sprites (via GRF) |
| 11:08 | <adf89> | for differnt zoom levels |
| 11:08 | <@planetmaker> | there's no difference in bit depths |
| 11:08 | <adf89> | I was browsing lates trunk code |
| 11:08 | <@planetmaker> | except that 8bpp 1x zoom is the only required sprite type |
| 11:09 | <@planetmaker> | all other bit depths and zoom levels are treated equally |
| 11:09 | <peter1138> | Rather, different bit depths are not treated differently. |
| 11:09 | <peter1138> | :) |
| 11:09 | <@planetmaker> | :-) |
| 11:09 | <@planetmaker> | details! |
| 11:10 | * | peter1138 still ponders a decent accelerated renderer. |
| 11:10 | <@planetmaker> | openCL? :-) |
| 11:10 | <peter1138> | PBOs |
| 11:11 | <peter1138> | Allows for efficient sparse updating. |
| 11:11 | <peter1138> | And possibly compositing for windows, though that would be quite some work. |
| 11:12 | <adf89> | sorry |
| 11:12 | <adf89> | i must go |
| 11:12 | <adf89> | bye |
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| 11:15 | <Nekomaster> | So has anyone seen the scale\size of the vehicles in CETs or the xUSSR set? |
| 11:18 | <peter1138> | No. |
| 11:18 | <Nekomaster> | im going to rip my hair out debating scale! argh! |
| 11:18 | <peter1138> | Who cares? |
| 11:18 | <Nekomaster> | ... |
| 11:18 | <peter1138> | Stick to 8/8 unless it's obviously shorter. |
| 11:18 | <Nekomaster> | ok then |
| 11:19 | <Nekomaster> | but first I need sprite templates, pikka's wiki doesnt have them anymore :( |
| 11:20 | <Nekomaster> | argh why did pikka remove the sprite templates from pikkawiki!? I need them now more then ever |
| 11:24 | <Xaroth|Work> | first world problems right there |
| 11:24 | <Nekomaster> | are these templates proper for a rail vehicle? http://www.tt-wiki.net/images/ttwiki/d/d1/FooBarTramVehicleTemplates.png |
| 11:25 | <Nekomaster> | I know it says tram vehicle templates, but I'd prefer to have the shapes their for reference of how I should draw my vehicles |
| 11:30 | <Nekomaster> | btw, is it possible to draw sprites in unpaletized 32-bpp |
| 11:30 | <Nekomaster> | aside from CC blue and CC green |
| 11:31 | <Pinkbeast> | Nekomaster: http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php?title=Sprite_templates&oldid=3941 |
| 11:31 | <Pinkbeast> | Any help? |
| 11:31 | <Nekomaster> | yes |
| 11:32 | <Nekomaster> | :) |
| 11:32 | <Nekomaster> | thank you |
| 11:32 | <Nekomaster> | Though I'm going with "TTD" scale, looking at NARS cars versus CETS cars, yeah, TTD scale cars look kinda short |
| 11:33 | <Nekomaster> | then again most people go with what, 7/8 for passenger\mail cars? |
| 11:33 | <Pinkbeast> | Beats me. |
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| 11:48 | <krinn> | is there a /restart/reset for GS ? |
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| 11:58 | <@planetmaker> | krinn, no, that's for admin port. You can try talk to your favourite admin port script though :-) |
| 11:58 | <@planetmaker> | krinn, though of course a GS can stop the game |
| 11:58 | <krinn> | i would rather let the game keep running while the gs restart |
| 11:59 | <krinn> | (yep like a save/restore) |
| 11:59 | <@planetmaker> | uh, you mean just to reload the script? |
| 11:59 | <krinn> | yes |
| 11:59 | <@planetmaker> | like stop_ai; start_ai? |
| 11:59 | <krinn> | correct |
| 11:59 | <@planetmaker> | I don't think that's feasible |
| 11:59 | <krinn> | or more like the reload button :) |
| 12:00 | <@planetmaker> | or rather: not implemented. could be a script_developer debugging thing |
| 12:00 | <krinn> | would be better if kept out of user eyes |
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| 12:01 | <krinn> | but changing anything in the GS while having AIs running doesn't help as quit/restart and all AIs restart from 0 |
| 12:02 | <krinn> | would be a fine feature for debug to just let them keep going while the GS restart |
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| 12:09 | <frosch123> | reload ai also clears company property |
| 12:09 | <frosch123> | so, either you can save/load the game and it will load the new gs |
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| 12:09 | <frosch123> | or you can restart the game with the same settings |
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| 12:10 | <krinn> | lmao and if you put your hands in the grease, will your at it, move the "AI/Game log script" option after "about openttd" : i keep taking screenshots :) |
| 12:11 | <krinn> | frosch123, i would like the players to stay alive, and the GS "jump" into that state and start |
| 12:11 | <krinn> | frosch123, of course the good solve is the save/load, but kinda slow |
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| 12:19 | <frosch123> | you can load the game via console |
| 12:19 | <frosch123> | so if you load it once with console, you can just do "open console", "cursor up", "enter" |
| 12:20 | <krinn> | there's also the save ? |
| 12:20 | <frosch123> | there are load and save console commands |
| 12:20 | <krinn> | ah great ! save test / load test |
| 12:22 | * | krinn is happy now |
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| 13:26 | <Wolf01> | hello |
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| 13:28 | <krinn> | hi Wolf01 |
| 13:30 | <Wolf01> | does somebody know how to code some will power? |
| 13:32 | <krinn> | will power? |
| 13:33 | <krinn> | i think you can code something in xanax++ |
| 13:34 | <Wolf01> | maybe I could just ask Green Lantern |
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| 13:58 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by rubidium :: r25965 trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp (2013-11-11 18:58:15 UTC) |
| 13:58 | <@DorpsGek> | -Fix [FS#5800]: the wrong vehicle would be taken in a shared order vehicle list window when the ID >= 65536, causing assertions triggering later on |
| 13:59 | <@Rubidium> | emperical evidence that "large number of vehicles" kinda implies "not using shared orders" |
| 14:00 | <frosch123> | not the other way around? |
| 14:01 | <frosch123> | hmm, or do you refer to it not being noticed earlier? |
| 14:01 | <@Rubidium> | yes, the not being noticed earlier |
| 14:07 | <@Rubidium> | but then, it's only a relatively new feature |
| 14:09 | <@Rubidium> | (relatively being 3+ years in trunk) |
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| 14:38 | <@Alberth> | o/ |
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| 14:41 | <zydeco> | \ô |
| 14:42 | <andythenorth> | o/ |
| 14:42 | <Wolf01> | \o/ |
| 14:43 | <Supercheese> | ö/ |
| 14:44 | <Wolf01> | ~ò~ |
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| 14:45 | <zydeco> | õ/´ |
| 14:45 | <Supercheese> | \ç |
| 14:46 | <zydeco> | I'm not sure if that's a detached hand |
| 14:46 | <andythenorth> | m m m m m m m m |
| 14:47 | <krinn> | (.Y.) |
| 14:47 | <Wolf01> | mmm |
| 14:47 | <krinn> | bah i sucks at graphic |
| 14:49 | <Supercheese> | õ_Õ |
| 14:50 | <Wolf01> | è_é |
| 14:51 | <@planetmaker> | zydeco, did you ask the other day about processing the blender stuff from zbase? |
| 14:51 | <andythenorth> | måh |
| 14:52 | <zydeco> | not me |
| 14:52 | <@planetmaker> | k :D |
| 14:53 | <krinn> | lol fench TV announce : 3x more angry, they touch at the colonel ! 3x more dangerous : "He is not God, God is merciful and he is not"... |
| 14:53 | <krinn> | rambo |
| 14:53 | <krinn> | 3 ! |
| 14:53 | <andythenorth> | Ponies! |
| 14:54 | <+glx> | I know what you are watching krinn :) |
| 14:54 | <krinn> | d8 :) |
| 14:54 | <krinn> | did you smile with the rambo announce too |
| 14:54 | <+glx> | yup |
| 14:54 | <krinn> | i was waiting for homeland |
| 14:55 | <+glx> | same here |
| 14:55 | <+glx> | and GoT after |
| 14:55 | <krinn> | hehe, i like that actor, saw him in life |
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| 15:03 | <andythenorth> | tech levels/ |
| 15:03 | <andythenorth> | ? |
| 15:03 | <Supercheese> | You have progressed to the Bronze Age |
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| 15:04 | <Supercheese> | Unlocked: Swordsman, Mounted Swordsman |
| 15:04 | <Supercheese> | oh wait, wrong game :P |
| 15:04 | <zydeco> | you have progressed to the maglev age |
| 15:05 | <Supercheese> | Unlocked: Stupid fast trains. Obsolete: Good-looking screenshots. |
| 15:07 | <@planetmaker> | lol, Supercheese :-) |
| 15:07 | <Supercheese> | I dunno about anyone else, but screenshots of 100% maglev track look horrible to me |
| 15:07 | <@planetmaker> | would it be an outcry to replace maglev by what smits provides as maglev? |
| 15:07 | <@planetmaker> | yes, I agree |
| 15:08 | <Supercheese> | same goes for monorail |
| 15:08 | <Supercheese> | with default sprites, of course |
| 15:08 | <@planetmaker> | monorail is better |
| 15:08 | <Supercheese> | marginally |
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| 15:11 | -!- | NekoMaster [~oftc-webi@bas4-oshawa95-1176006891.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd |
| 15:11 | <NekoMaster> | Bonjour people |
| 15:12 | <zydeco> | saluton |
| 15:12 | <NekoMaster> | Anyone want to evaluate my WIP horizon car? |
| 15:12 | <NekoMaster> | https://www.dropbox.com/s/gsuxtwwga7mi8n0/Amtrak%20Horizon.png |
| 15:13 | * | andythenorth needs an 'always start with $100m' cheat, for newgrf testing |
| 15:13 | <NekoMaster> | lol |
| 15:13 | <Supercheese> | andy: Gamescript ;) |
| 15:13 | <andythenorth> | ho ho |
| 15:13 | <andythenorth> | good point |
| 15:13 | <andythenorth> | also I have to write more switches to check grfid :( |
| 15:14 | <andythenorth> | this was pleasingly small amount of code :P |
| 15:14 | <@Alberth> | :) |
| 15:14 | <frosch123> | andythenorth: alt+1 in debug build |
| 15:15 | <andythenorth> | frosch123: :o |
| 15:16 | <NekoMaster> | "I like trains" |
| 15:18 | <andythenorth> | would we consider providing alt+1 if newgrf dev tools are enabled? |
| 15:18 | <@planetmaker> | yes, we could consider that imho |
| 15:19 | <@planetmaker> | hm... and single-player |
| 15:19 | <andythenorth> | I don't mind using normal cheat ui |
| 15:19 | <andythenorth> | but it's wearing out my ctrl-alt keys.... |
| 15:19 | <@planetmaker> | I know what you mean |
| 15:19 | <@planetmaker> | saving two clicks. On multiple starts |
| 15:20 | <andythenorth> | an alternative: instead of 'newgame' 'newtestgame' |
| 15:20 | <andythenorth> | or 'newdebuggame' |
| 15:20 | <andythenorth> | or something |
| 15:20 | <Supercheese> | +1 |
| 15:20 | <@planetmaker> | or simply allow insane amounts of start money configured |
| 15:21 | <NekoMaster> | Can someone tell me how my Amtrak Horizon Car looks > https://www.dropbox.com/s/gsuxtwwga7mi8n0/Amtrak%20Horizon.png I need to know before I continue because aparently I suck |
| 15:21 | <NekoMaster> | at pixel art |
| 15:21 | <Supercheese> | any reference photos? |
| 15:21 | <andythenorth> | NekoMaster: it doesn't suck, do the other angles |
| 15:21 | <Supercheese> | you could link? |
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| 15:21 | <Supercheese> | Googling... |
| 15:21 | <andythenorth> | NekoMaster: views for / and \ are much harder than - |
| 15:21 | <NekoMaster> | I know that |
| 15:22 | <andythenorth> | it doesn't suck, keep going |
| 15:22 | <Supercheese> | are you using both CC and 2CC for the bi-color stripe? |
| 15:22 | <Supercheese> | or heck, it's tri-color red white and blue |
| 15:22 | <frosch123> | planetmaker: andythenorth: alt+1 actually bypasses the cheat stuff |
| 15:22 | <NekoMaster> | unless I went with a larger scale I can only do bi-color |
| 15:23 | <NekoMaster> | I wish I could do tri-color |
| 15:23 | <andythenorth> | pixel art = compromose |
| 15:23 | <frosch123> | however, we could make most cheats advanced settings like "allow cheating money" or "changing date", and then attach them to mousewheel action on the statusbar |
| 15:23 | <andythenorth> | compromise * |
| 15:23 | <andythenorth> | money cheat = essential for toddlers playing :) |
| 15:23 | <NekoMaster> | lol |
| 15:23 | <@planetmaker> | hm, sounds like a good idea actually, frosch123 |
| 15:24 | <andythenorth> | child #1 is not profitable |
| 15:24 | <NekoMaster> | Money cheat = Pretend the government loaned you 20 mill |
| 15:24 | <andythenorth> | also, we really need to fix vehicle colouring :P |
| 15:24 | <@planetmaker> | just become supercritical, too big to fail and you don't have to pay back the loan |
| 15:24 | <@planetmaker> | done |
| 15:24 | <NekoMaster> | I think a 1,000,000 loan limit is silly |
| 15:24 | <MNIM> | NekoMaster: no, bailout :P |
| 15:24 | <NekoMaster> | Lol |
| 15:25 | <NekoMaster> | Nah, I pretend that the only 20 mill that I add is a government loan to get a company started because they need shit moved |
| 15:25 | <andythenorth> | meanwhile /me looks if grfid is in scope |
| 15:25 | <andythenorth> | someone will now tell me it's an nml var :P |
| 15:26 | <andythenorth> | it is |
| 15:26 | <NekoMaster> | Hmm, at least i have my 7 inch Note II as a second screen for showing referense pictures while spriting :) |
| 15:26 | <@planetmaker> | you told yourself, andythenorth ! ;-) |
| 15:26 | <andythenorth> | hmm, but I need the grfid of iron-horse |
| 15:26 | <andythenorth> | I probably have that somewhere :P |
| 15:26 | <@planetmaker> | you know your own, don't you? |
| 15:26 | <andythenorth> | somewhere in this warren of code, yes |
| 15:27 | <@planetmaker> | I usually add a list of #define GRFID_XXX "blah" |
| 15:27 | <NekoMaster> | I have the id |
| 15:27 | <@planetmaker> | so that I can use the grfIDs later in the code easily w/o remembering any |
| 15:27 | <NekoMaster> | 4341121E |
| 15:28 | <NekoMaster> | Iron Horse ID :) |
| 15:28 | <andythenorth> | oops, I put it directly in a template :P |
| 15:28 | <andythenorth> | silly andythenorth |
| 15:28 | <andythenorth> | planetmaker: there's no known case for the makefile needing the grfid? |
| 15:28 | <andythenorth> | before I move it to the wrong place :P |
| 15:29 | <NekoMaster> | OMG I hate it when you goto add something to a URL and you replace the whole URL |
| 15:29 | <andythenorth> | NekoMaster: cmd-z? |
| 15:29 | <@planetmaker> | andythenorth, there actually is one: to put it also in a scripted way into the readme |
| 15:29 | <NekoMaster> | cmd-z? |
| 15:29 | <andythenorth> | so I could add it to repo vars |
| 15:29 | <andythenorth> | or I could have it in python global_constants |
| 15:29 | <NekoMaster> | I dont have a command key |
| 15:29 | <andythenorth> | NekoMaster: ctrl-z? |
| 15:29 | * | NekoMaster is a windows user |
| 15:29 | <@planetmaker> | yes. it could be given the compiler via -DGRFID=$GRFID |
| 15:29 | <@planetmaker> | or so |
| 15:29 | <andythenorth> | dunno, might just be a mac thing |
| 15:29 | <NekoMaster> | ues |
| 15:30 | <andythenorth> | planetmaker: makefile.config? |
| 15:30 | <@Alberth> | andythenorth: lol, ctrl-z is EOF at windows :p |
| 15:30 | <NekoMaster> | CTRL+Z does little help when you've already replaced the URL and pressed enter |
| 15:30 | <@planetmaker> | and then you could define the GRFID="blah" in Makefile.config |
| 15:30 | <@planetmaker> | yes |
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| 15:30 | <andythenorth> | Alberth: :) lulz, I iz a mac user |
| 15:30 | * | NekoMaster barfs |
| 15:30 | <NekoMaster> | I'm allergic to apples D: |
| 15:30 | <@planetmaker> | or maybe w/o the "". Needs test :-) |
| 15:31 | <@Alberth> | NekoMaster: use Linux or *BSD instead :) |
| 15:31 | <andythenorth> | planetmaker: testing :) |
| 15:31 | <NekoMaster> | I prefer looking at Windows with my Androids :3 |
| 15:31 | <NekoMaster> | I use to like linux but they're going the wrong way with it |
| 15:31 | <NekoMaster> | making it too user friendly and bogging it down with flashy interfaces and flashy code |
| 15:32 | <NekoMaster> | even the high performance linux stuff still is sluggish compared to my windows 7 install |
| 15:32 | <@Alberth> | that's just default behavior :) |
| 15:32 | <@planetmaker> | andythenorth, CC_USER_FLAGS=-DGRFID=$GRFID also in Makefile.config |
| 15:32 | <@Alberth> | takes a bit of configuration to make the system work like you want it |
| 15:32 | <andythenorth> | planetmaker: any particular place to add that? |
| 15:32 | <NekoMaster> | Besides, with a more powerful computer now, I need windows 7 if I wanna play things like Call of Duty, Fallout 3, Skyrim or MOrrowind, SimCity 4 or 2000 or 3000 |
| 15:33 | <@planetmaker> | below the definition of the GRFID="blah" :-) |
| 15:33 | -!- | LordAro [~LordAro@sns61-83.york.ac.uk] has joined #openttd |
| 15:33 | <@Alberth> | hi Lord |
| 15:33 | <LordAro> | /o |
| 15:33 | <NekoMaster> | Plus I find linux still lacks proper 3D acceleration so 3D games suffer having to use software rendering |
| 15:34 | <@planetmaker> | hullo LordAro |
| 15:34 | <Taede> | evening all |
| 15:34 | <@planetmaker> | hullo Taede |
| 15:35 | <LordAro> | my computer is being very weird - if i have boinc running, and the pc is running medium-high load, it *randomly* sometimes shuts down, as if a loss of power |
| 15:35 | <LordAro> | but only if boinc is running - it just survived an hour of mprime torture with no incident |
| 15:36 | <andythenorth> | planetmaker: needs formatting? Also the \ are double-escaped when they arrive in python (\\), so assuming that needs changed... http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2792/ |
| 15:36 | <andythenorth> | otherwise appears to work |
| 15:36 | <@Alberth> | LordAro: sounds like an overheating problem? |
| 15:37 | <andythenorth> | LordAro: read the logs? |
| 15:37 | <@planetmaker> | andythenorth, do you need any "\" at all? |
| 15:37 | <LordAro> | nope, temperatures are apparently normal (max of 61C) |
| 15:37 | <LordAro> | andythenorth: as far as i can tell, there are no logs, it just turns off |
| 15:37 | <LordAro> | unless i'm looking at the wrong logs |
| 15:37 | <andythenorth> | planetmaker: not sure, they are copied from the definition in my nml grf block |
| 15:37 | <@planetmaker> | if yes, then... dunno escape as much as is needed :-) |
| 15:38 | <andythenorth> | I could fix it in python, but that seems wrong :) |
| 15:38 | <@Alberth> | LordAro: weird :( |
| 15:38 | <LordAro> | Alberth: very :L |
| 15:38 | <andythenorth> | the escapes are probably not wanted in the makefile I am guessing |
| 15:38 | <@planetmaker> | andythenorth, doesn't exactly matter. No problem to define it the way that it reaches code properly |
| 15:39 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 15:39 | <@planetmaker> | but before you go into too great lengths: currently the docs do not use GRFID, iirc |
| 15:39 | <@planetmaker> | but it would be a nice addition |
| 15:39 | <andythenorth> | my docs are built with python anyway :) |
| 15:39 | <@planetmaker> | well :-) |
| 15:39 | <andythenorth> | so this might be unnecesary? :) |
| 15:39 | <@planetmaker> | yeah, then just define it in your header |
| 15:39 | <@planetmaker> | hardcode. I actually do that, too |
| 15:40 | <andythenorth> | it goes in global_constants.py :) |
| 15:40 | <@planetmaker> | everything else was too much hassle for me really. For very little gain |
| 15:40 | <andythenorth> | makefile could always look in that .py file :P |
| 15:41 | <Taede> | lordaro: did you not just install a new psu? |
| 15:41 | <@planetmaker> | yes, it could |
| 15:42 | <LordAro> | Taede: yup |
| 15:42 | <LordAro> | it's not that |
| 15:42 | <LordAro> | it's either cpu or motherboard, imo |
| 15:43 | <@planetmaker> | unstable power might do, too |
| 15:43 | <LordAro> | perhaps, but there's been nothing else reported |
| 15:44 | <Taede> | if it didnt do it with the old psu, and you still have it i'd swawp em over just to eliminate it |
| 15:44 | <Taede> | all it needs is a single rail to dip between readings |
| 15:46 | <LordAro> | i did do it with the old psu, hence replacing it ;) |
| 15:47 | <Taede> | :) |
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| 15:50 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 15:50 | <andythenorth> | python somewhat understands these escapes |
| 15:50 | <andythenorth> | with unwanted results |
| 15:50 | * | andythenorth has to read the nml docs about grfid :P |
| 15:51 | <@planetmaker> | andythenorth, 4-byte literal string |
| 15:51 | <@planetmaker> | "blah" or "bla\0" |
| 15:51 | <andythenorth> | it's the \ escapes there that are the problem |
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| 15:52 | <andythenorth> | so "CA\12\1E" seems to be evaluated by python, even though it's a string |
| 15:52 | <andythenorth> | resulting in "CA [newline] E" |
| 15:52 | <@planetmaker> | he :D |
| 15:53 | <@Alberth> | yes \12 = 8+2 = 10 = NL |
| 15:53 | <@planetmaker> | \"CA\12\1E\" ? |
| 15:53 | <andythenorth> | herp :P |
| 15:53 | <@Alberth> | "CA\\12\\1E" I'd say |
| 15:54 | <@Alberth> | ie you want a literal \ in the string, which you need to escape |
| 15:54 | <andythenorth> | prefix r? |
| 15:54 | * | andythenorth was googling |
| 15:54 | <andythenorth> | raw |
| 15:54 | <@Alberth> | in Python that would work |
| 15:56 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 15:56 | <andythenorth> | doesn't for me :) |
| 15:56 | <andythenorth> | oh, now nml is sulking about it :( |
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| 15:56 | <andythenorth> | ah |
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| 15:58 | <andythenorth> | fixed |
| 15:58 | <andythenorth> | \o/ |
| 15:58 | <andythenorth> | small victories :P |
| 15:58 | <@planetmaker> | many small victories win the battle ;-) |
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| 16:03 | <andythenorth> | that is also my approach to dice wars |
| 16:03 | <andythenorth> | which I am playing |
| 16:03 | <andythenorth> | between compiles :P |
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| 16:44 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
| 16:44 | <andythenorth> | maybe str2number() is my friend for grfids in switches |
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| 17:02 | <andythenorth> | oops :o |
| 17:03 | * | andythenorth made a very silly mistake with logic |
| 17:03 | <andythenorth> | maybe it's bed time :) |
| 17:03 | <andythenorth> | good night |
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| 17:11 | <Wolf01> | 'night all |
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| 17:34 | <frosch123> | night |
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| 17:39 | <Eddi|zuHause> | planetmaker: so how do i get this public key to you? |
| 17:43 | <@planetmaker> | paste it somewhere. forum mail. create a ticket at devzone help centre |
| 17:43 | <@planetmaker> | it's public, thus no secret :-) |
| 17:50 | <Eddi|zuHause> | hm. so forum didn't like the extension... |
| 17:50 | <@planetmaker> | just paste it in a private irc conversation |
| 17:52 | <@planetmaker> | ok, key installed, should work now |
| 17:55 | <Eddi|zuHause> | "Entfernt: Fügte 29 Änderungssätze mit 64 Änderungen an 27 Dateien hinzu" <-- sounds weird |
| 17:56 | <@planetmaker> | why? |
| 17:56 | <@planetmaker> | would sound slightly less weired if it was like "Entferntes Repo: ..." |
| 17:56 | <@planetmaker> | but otherwise? |
| 17:57 | <Eddi|zuHause> | first, the ambiguity between "remote" and "removed", second, the unusual past tense... |
| 17:57 | <@planetmaker> | :-) Actually true, though. You only get the message after the changesets have been integrated into the remote repository |
| 17:58 | <@planetmaker> | it's in the post-commit hook |
| 17:58 | <@planetmaker> | the internal one |
| 17:59 | <Eddi|zuHause> | what i always wondered: why does the project page have no link to the nightlies? |
| 18:01 | <@planetmaker> | which page? |
| 18:01 | <@planetmaker> | http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets or something else? |
| 18:01 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yes, for example |
| 18:02 | <Eddi|zuHause> | planetmaker: personally, i'd expect it as one of those tabs |
| 18:03 | <@planetmaker> | Well, that requires a custom plug-in to redmine which does not exactly exist :-) |
| 18:03 | <@planetmaker> | I added to CETS the tab to hudson (=jenkins) |
| 18:03 | <@planetmaker> | that can be done by each project manager |
| 18:04 | <@planetmaker> | see settings->modules |
| 18:04 | <@planetmaker> | for old redmine versions there used to be an URL tab plug-in. But that does not work with newer versions any longer |
| 18:04 | <Eddi|zuHause> | mäh, why does that say failed |
| 18:04 | <@planetmaker> | because it failed |
| 18:04 | <@planetmaker> | see the build logs. Missing graphics file |
| 18:05 | <Eddi|zuHause> | looks like missing directory to put the file in |
| 18:05 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i did have a "create directories" step somewhere... |
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| 18:12 | <@planetmaker> | dum di dum... https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/jenkinsci-dev/force$20push/jenkinsci-dev/-myjRIPcVwU/mrwn8VkyXagJ |
| 18:15 | <Eddi|zuHause> | planetmaker: why does the console log start with listing the _previous_ head and not the current head? |
| 18:19 | <Eddi|zuHause> | interesting "progress bar" :p |
| 18:19 | <Eddi|zuHause> | what does it base its progress on? |
| 18:21 | <@planetmaker> | valid questions. I don't know :-) |
| 18:21 | <@planetmaker> | though the progress bar likely depends on the previous build time. It remembers that |
| 18:22 | <@planetmaker> | ok, that only failed to publish the build... |
| 18:23 | <Eddi|zuHause> | "Error on sprite 759." <- not using grfcodec tip, i presume |
| 18:24 | <@planetmaker> | changeset: 965:a3e37207880b |
| 18:24 | <@planetmaker> | ^ grfcodec |
| 18:24 | <@planetmaker> | that's 6.0.3 |
| 18:24 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yes, rubidium fixed those errors a few days ago |
| 18:25 | <Eddi|zuHause> | but that's not critical, just clutters the output |
| 18:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | the error message is bogus anyway |
| 18:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | something with "ID out of range" |
| 18:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | where the range is just larger in openttd |
| 18:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | it won't have anything to do with failing to publish |
| 18:32 | <@planetmaker> | no, that's different |
| 18:34 | <Eddi|zuHause> | anyone besides me find it weird that nforenum just says "error" and leaves you to manually look into the file to find out what kind of error? |
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| 18:36 | <@planetmaker> | could certainly be improved upon |
| 18:40 | <@planetmaker> | right. Just updating to tip won't update the repository if it's not preceeded by a pull :-) |
| 18:40 | <@planetmaker> | so grfcodec should now update itself properly, too |
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| 21:01 | <Nekomaster> | Bloop |
| 21:29 | <Nekomaster> | anyone alive? |
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| 22:42 | * | Supercheese is alive, last he checked |
| 22:42 | <Supercheese> | Whoop, he's gone |
| 22:58 | <Eddi|zuHause> | don't feed cats after midnight |
| 23:08 | <Eddi|zuHause> | anybody fancy writing out these colour indices into a table? https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets/repository/revisions/716/entry/docs/liveries.png |
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| --- | Log | closed Tue Nov 12 00:00:25 2013 |
