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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-11-18

---Logopened Mon Nov 18 00:00:37 2013
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00:55<FrenkyPohodar>Hello. I have a question rename it somehow run a dedicated server? : (Me with two servers run under the same name.
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01:45<@planetmaker>moin
01:45<V453000>hy!
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01:49<LuHa>hi
01:53<Supercheese>'lo
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02:43<FrenkyPohodar>Have a nice day (in the morning) when you do not know how to run a dedicated server, enter the server name? So far I have found only one option and that should be corrected before starting openttd.cfg
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03:23<@planetmaker>FrenkyPohodar, close down openttd, edit openttd.cfg, restart - like you said
03:25<@planetmaker>if you advertize the server, then the name need be known before that is done. So changing that afterwards does not work
03:27<FrenkyPohodar>It would be better-N name server
03:28<@planetmaker>why would that be better?
03:28<@planetmaker>actually it would allow to start more easily a dos attack on our main server
03:29<@planetmaker>the server name also doesn't change with each map you play
03:30<@planetmaker>so it's a one-time setup thing
03:34<FrenkyPohodar>Then edit it manually, the problem is that I wanted to run the second server and they then named the same is not possible to make settings (openttd.cfg) for each server separately?
03:35<@planetmaker>you need a separate cfg anyway - you cannot run from the same IP *and* port. At least the port it runs on needs to differ
03:35<@planetmaker>so yes, each server necessarily needs a separate cfg
03:36<@planetmaker>using the same fails on the operating system level
03:36<@planetmaker>or network level if you want to be more specific
03:42<FrenkyPohodar>If I'm reading this correctly then it will be enough to add -c setting. cfg server startup
03:43<@planetmaker>yes
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05:42<dihedral>greetings
05:42<zydeco>hello
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08:38<Bloody_Mikey>Hi non of my AI that i have downloadet want to work
08:38<V453000>why use an AI
08:38<Bloody_Mikey>[misc] [squirrel] Failed to compile
08:39<Bloody_Mikey>Just for fun
08:41<krinn>you have a problem with ottd or all AIs doesn't work
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08:42<@planetmaker>Bloody_Mikey, did you use the ingame content download to obtain the AI?
08:43<@planetmaker>if not: make sure that you do not only download the AI, but also the libraries and to place those in the proper directory as well
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09:05<krinn>the {SKIP} complain about english:16: error: Undefined command 'SKIP'
09:05<krinn>but it seems it still burn arguments like expect
09:08<krinn>or is it because it return a string and string isn't valid value for {COMPANY} : so {SKIP} doesn't work, but ottd ignore {COMPANY} because the param isn't integer ?
09:14<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: more likely you're interpreting your problem the wrong way
09:14<krinn>could be that too :)
09:16<krinn>how do i sort out {COMPANY} {COMPANY} no output for 2nd {COMPANY} when value is not a valid company?
09:16<krinn>should i just pass -1 to the 2nd {COMPANY} ?
09:16<Eddi|zuHause>you should have a second string with only one {COMPANY}
09:17<Eddi|zuHause>and decide which one to use in the code that pushes the parameters
09:17<krinn>and so define 15 strings for each possibilties
09:19<krinn>i see that {SKIP} doesn't exist anymore from the ref page update you gave me
09:19<krinn>(now i know why the complain against skip)
09:22<Eddi|zuHause>why 15 strings?
09:22<krinn>15 companies
09:23<krinn>str0 : {COMPANY} str1: {COMPANY} {COMPANY}...
09:23<Eddi|zuHause>STR_CONCAT:{STRING}{STRING}
09:23<Eddi|zuHause>and then nest these
09:23<krinn>can't concat, GS can't do
09:24<Eddi|zuHause>yes, you can, with this string
09:28<krinn>got it thanks
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09:53<Eddi|zuHause>random idea: on web translator a "download this language" button that gets you the output of strgen, so translators can test their changes
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09:55<krinn>like example on http://wiki.openttd.org/OpenTTDDevBlackBook/Special_strings ?
09:55<Eddi|zuHause>what do you mean?
09:56<krinn>{CURRENCY64} -> € 10,000,000,00
09:56<krinn>{VELOCITY} -> 120km/h or 195mph
09:57<Eddi|zuHause>can you construct full sentences please?
09:57<krinn>those are example given in the url i have just post
09:57<Eddi|zuHause>and?
09:58<Eddi|zuHause>what does that have to do with anything?
09:58<krinn>nothing, it's just for saying something
09:59<@peter1138>...
09:59<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, file a feature request for the WT3 project so that it won't be forgotten. It's a good idea
09:59<@planetmaker>But no idea which can be dealt with quickly
10:01<dihedral>Eddi Eddi Eddi ...
10:02<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: on devzone? there's only a wt2 on flyspray
10:02<Eddi|zuHause>dihedral: what?
10:02-!-tparker_ is now known as tparker
10:02<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, WT3 is part of 'website' project
10:03<@planetmaker>on flyspray
10:03<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: ah
10:06<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause, hi :-D
10:09<Rubidium>krinn: {1:COMPANY}?
10:10<Rubidium>also, the OpenTTDDevBlackBook should be blacklisted
10:10<krinn>Rubidium, it should move company order when display if i get it right, so not that
10:11<Rubidium>what parameters do you set exactly, and what kind of strings do you want to create?
10:11<krinn>it's to have a string with : {COMPANY} {COMPANY}...{COMPANY} that is fill with company names, but when not all 15 are present, empty the missing ones
10:11<Rubidium>one thing... {SKIP} is BAD
10:12<Eddi|zuHause>krinn: so have a string with: {STRING} {STRING} ... {STRING} and push either STR_COMPANY or STR_EMPTY
10:13<krinn>and STR_EMPTY can just be... empty ?
10:13<Eddi|zuHause>STR_EMPTY:
10:13<Eddi|zuHause>STR_COMPANY:{COMPANY}
10:13<krinn>but {STRING} is not {COMPANY}
10:14<Rubidium>though that won't work with 15 companies as you only have a limit of 20 parameters
10:14<Rubidium>even then, you'll have all kinds of intermittent spaces
10:14<krinn>but when i use {SKIP} except the complain it seems to work
10:14<krinn>it display company1 company2 and no "invalid or missing" message
10:15<krinn>but the log put the {SKIP} is not a valid thing
10:15<Rubidium>you can also use {KRINN} to get the exact same result
10:16<krinn>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5804/getfile/9466/crash.png (lol my crash screenshot)
10:16<krinn>look at The White House displaying companies
10:16<krinn>with -> STR_AWARD_OWN_MULTI : Own by {NUM} compan{P y ies} : {COMPANY} {COMPANY} {COMPANY} {COMPANY} {COMPANY} {COMPANY} {COMPANY} {COMPANY} {COMPANY} {COMPANY} {COMPANY} {COMPANY} {COMPANY} {COMPANY} {COMPANY}
10:18<krinn>Rubidium maybe, but i would prefer a "don't bug the log" solve
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10:19<Rubidium>then just use 15 {COMPANY}s
10:19<Rubidium>looks like the fail safe is to not draw anything when the company doesn't exist
10:19<krinn>ah so i could pass integer -1 ?
10:20<Rubidium>well, I'd use COMPANY_INVALID or so
10:20<krinn>ok, will do with COMPANY_INVALID
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10:24<krinn>great, no complain in log, and output is the same
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10:56<andythenorth>o/
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11:09<krinn>hi andythenorth
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12:00<NGC3982>http://i.imgur.com/rNsYO3P.png
12:00<NGC3982>Yeah, better keep that milk safe.
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12:07<@peter1138>Eh?
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12:08<@planetmaker>seems like a armoured transport which transports milk
12:09<@planetmaker>mice milk most likely
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12:11<NGC3982>Indeed.
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12:24<krinn>what is the url to push @ devzone with ssh ?
12:26<@planetmaker>ssh://hg@hg.openttdcoop.org/PROJECTNAME
12:26<krinn>thank you planetmaker (should be put with the readonly message)
12:26<krinn>(should also be put in my mind of course)
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12:59-!-planetmaker is "Ingo von Borstel" on @#openttd #openttdcoop.devzone #oftc +#openttd.dev @+#openttdcoop.dev +#openDune @+#openttdcoop @+#openttdcoop.stable @+#openttdcoop.nightly @+#coopetition
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13:03<NGC3982>Isn't there a bunch of people from Moldovia in this channel?
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13:12<Eddi|zuHause>anybody have an idea how i run ntfsresize on a qemu disk image?
13:13<zydeco>you'd have to resize the file first, probably
13:14<Eddi|zuHause>i have run qemu-img resize
13:14<Eddi|zuHause>now i can either use the windows tools in the vm or the linux tools on the raw file to resize the disk
13:15<Eddi|zuHause>where the former is probably tricky as it's the system partition
13:15<@planetmaker>make a backup of the file and try :-)
13:15<Eddi|zuHause>plenty of backups :)
13:15<zydeco>sounds like it should work if it's a raw file
13:20<Eddi|zuHause>hm... fdisk doesn't want to do as i want
13:21<Eddi|zuHause>this is the existing partition:
13:21<Eddi|zuHause> Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
13:21<Eddi|zuHause>windowsxp/disk0-clone.raw1 * 63 16755794 8377866 7 HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
13:21<Eddi|zuHause>but when i delete it and create a new one, it wants "start" as minimum 2048
13:21<Eddi|zuHause>so i can't input 63
13:21<^Spike^>if all else fails blame windows.... :)
13:22<Eddi|zuHause>that's tricky if windows isn't running :p
13:22<^Spike^>aka i don't know :)
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13:22<^Spike^>windows can break without it running :D
13:22<^Spike^>it's the special powers it has :D
13:22<zydeco>lol
13:22<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but still, this is linux fdisk
13:23<^Spike^>you're trying to overrule my theory! :)
13:23<Eddi|zuHause>yes
13:23<rubenwardy>Hi all
13:23<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, gtg...
13:36<Bloody_Mikey>how do i activate a setting in midgame whitour restating the server
13:37<@planetmaker>rcon
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13:43<aditsu>hi, which stations affect a town's growth?
13:43<@planetmaker>1,2,3,4 and 5
13:44<aditsu>haha, I mean, it seems they have to be within a certain distance of the town center?
13:44<aditsu>or what's the criterion?
13:44<@planetmaker>you can check which land belongs to a town with the land query tool
13:44<@planetmaker>yes, they need to be in the influence area of the town
13:45<@planetmaker>usually the stations then have a name like "{TOWN} central" or "{TOWN} Mine"
13:45<@planetmaker>though... they have that, too outside... hm. But land query tool is clear :-)
13:45<aditsu>I have an airport that doesn't seem to be considered
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26035 /trunk/src/lang (7 files) (2013-11-18 18:45:49 UTC)
13:46<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:46<@DorpsGek>belarusian - 1 changes by KorneySan
13:46<@DorpsGek>catalan - 1 changes by juanjo
13:46<@DorpsGek>dutch - 1 changes by habell
13:46<@DorpsGek>french - 28 changes by glx
13:46<@DorpsGek>german - 1 changes by planetmaker
13:46<@DorpsGek>norwegian_bokmal - 7 changes by Trond
13:46<@DorpsGek>spanish - 2 changes by Terkhen
13:46<aditsu>local authority? or what should I look at?
13:46<@planetmaker>the tile under the station sign matters
13:46<@planetmaker>yeah
13:47<aditsu>ahaha, that corner has "none", the rest of the airport is on town's tiles
13:47<@planetmaker>:-)
13:47<aditsu>thanks for the info
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14:06<andythenorth>I miss yesterday's visitor
14:07<@peter1138>who?
14:08<andythenorth>I can only recommend the logs for this time yesterday
14:08<andythenorth>:P
14:09<@planetmaker>the godwin invoker?
14:09<andythenorth>yup
14:09<andythenorth>who then pm-ed me a few times asking what happened
14:09<andythenorth>I think it was 100% legitimate, not a bot
14:09<@planetmaker>yeah, you were not the only one as I heard
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14:35<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26036 trunk/src/gfx_layout.cpp (2013-11-18 19:35:06 UTC)
14:35<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5809]: multi line text was handled incorrectly causing glitches
14:36<LordAro>"const char *&str" looks wrong in my (inexperienced) eyes
14:37<LordAro>what's it actually pointing to?
14:37<rubenwardy>One of my towns reach 10,000! What do yours look like?
14:40<Rubidium>LordAro: it's a reference to a pointer
14:40<Kjetil>*shrug* references..
14:41<LordAro>right. and can that not be represented by "const char str" (i know it can't, but my "understanding" of '*' and '&' is that they're somewhat opposite of each other)
14:42<@planetmaker>rubenwardy, http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/PublicServer:Archive_-_Games_91_-_100#gameid_96 <--- like that ;-)
14:42<frosch123>no, they are most right-associative
14:42<Kjetil>That's in C. C++ in its infinite wisdom reused a lot of the tokens from C in new ways
14:42<rubenwardy>2m!
14:42<frosch123>LordAro: basically, everything that you can mess up with c syntax, is messed up
14:42<LordAro>:3
14:42*LordAro sticks to smart pointers in c++ :p
14:42<frosch123>& and * are only some of ther worst syntaxes
14:43<Kjetil>Don't you just love struct constructors ? :P
14:43<@Alberth>adding parentheses can and does help in these cases :)
14:43<frosch123>LordAro: you should still learn & though
14:43<frosch123>specifically const &
14:43<LordAro>yes, i think i understand that
14:43<frosch123>const-references are important, esp. when using smart pointers
14:44<andythenorth>presumably the articulated vehicle ID limit is some limitation due to word-sized vars or something?
14:44<andythenorth>and not easy to increase?
14:45<frosch123>it's limited by the cb result
14:45<frosch123>and if you hit it, you are doing something wrong :)
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14:45<Wolf01>moin
14:45-!-TomyLobo [~foo@91-65-113-111-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd
14:46<andythenorth>frosch123: we'll probably hit it with Iron Horse. And I'm probably going to be watching a huge compile :(
14:47<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26037 trunk/src/gfx_layout.cpp (2013-11-18 19:47:43 UTC)
14:47<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r26036): there was a reason they weren't references...
14:48<frosch123>@topic set 1 1.3.2, 1.3.3-RC1
14:48-!-DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.3.2, 1.3.3-RC1 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | #openttd.dev for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices
14:49<andythenorth>more releases :)
14:49<andythenorth>so we (can't remember who) talked once about some kind of grf container format
14:50*rubenwardy now has a triple track
14:50<andythenorth>so bananas etc would see one package, but it would be implemented as multiple grfs
14:52<andythenorth>one grf would be nominated as the master for the package, and provide action 14 stuff
14:52-!-DanMacK [~d83be170@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
14:52<frosch123>didn't you once said 10 engines are enough?
14:52<DanMacK>Hey all
14:52<andythenorth>hey DanMacK :)
14:53<andythenorth>he must have 6th sense :)
14:53<DanMacK>lol
14:53<andythenorth>DanMacK: so how many 'sets' are we thinking for IH?
14:54<andythenorth>(worth talking about here, not on pm)
14:54<DanMacK>I dunno, I've got a few in mind
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14:55<DanMacK>Def want to do a Chinese inspired, Russian, Ireland, NA (US and Canada), Aussie, New Zealand...
14:55-!-Pereba [~UserNick@177.17.81.101] has joined #openttd
14:55<andythenorth>and each set uses 500 (or 1,000) IDs
14:55<DanMacK>a "light rail" type that has small stuff for island shuttling use
14:56<andythenorth>and we (probably) want them all in one grf
14:56<DanMacK>how many have we got to play with?
14:56<andythenorth>16383 or so
14:56<andythenorth>-1000 for 'stuff'
14:56<DanMacK>I was thinking separate - pick and choose
14:56<DanMacK>or one - see what happens
14:56<andythenorth>any other opinions here? One Iron Horse grf with params, or lots of Iron Horse grfs?
14:58<andythenorth>from a playing p.o.v I dislike managing lots of grfs
14:58<andythenorth>from a 'well nml is slow' p.o.v. I like separate grfs :P
14:58<Rubidium>andythenorth: use eddi-nml?
14:59<andythenorth>it's unsupported I believe :P
14:59<andythenorth>the author gave me that impression :)
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15:09<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26038 trunk/src/script/api/script_info_docs.hpp (2013-11-18 20:09:09 UTC)
15:09<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Doxygen syntax.
15:13<frosch123>andy is a mistery to me :)
15:13<andythenorth>:(
15:14<frosch123>some month ago he complained about huge purchase lists, when 10 vehicles would be enough. and now he wants to code a grf with 500 purchase list items or more
15:14<andythenorth>nah
15:14<andythenorth>10 was pikka
15:14<frosch123>definitely go for separate grfs imo
15:14<andythenorth>and I want one set of these vehicles enabled at once
15:14<andythenorth>I think 30 is about right, depending on game length
15:15<andythenorth>I don't think it's much work to compile separate grfs from one codebase
15:16<andythenorth>I guess I can test that :)
15:16<andythenorth>also I won't be staring into a future with 10 minute compile time :)
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15:29<montalvo>can anyone tell me where crash logs are sent to on os x?
15:30<@planetmaker>~/Documents/OpenTTD/crash*
15:30<montalvo>thanks
15:30<montalvo>i've been getting a pesky crash :(
15:31<@planetmaker>you tried our new release candidate 1.3.3-RC1?
15:31<montalvo>yeah that's the one i'm on
15:31<montalvo>i think it might be the AI crash again?
15:32<@planetmaker>"the AI crash"?
15:32<montalvo>essentially, the game crashes on os x as soon as an AI starts play
15:33<+glx>any AI or a specific one ?
15:33<montalvo>any AI
15:33<montalvo>i'm trying to dig up the bug report for you
15:34<montalvo>this one, i believe: https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5100
15:34<Rubidium>sounds like FS#5100
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15:35<montalvo>i *think* i got around it by compiling my own version of one of the newer nightlies
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15:36<montalvo>anyway yeah i just started a game on 1.3.3-RC1 without AIs and it runs fine
15:36<Rubidium>sounds like gcc is broken or so
15:36<Rubidium>too bad the CF uses a really ancient version of gcc
15:36<montalvo>i compiled my own version with gcc and it ran fine i think
15:37<Rubidium>but your gcc != the gcc on the compile farm, I'd reckon
15:37<montalvo>oh for sure, yeaj
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15:39<montalvo>i just went back to my self-compiled version of one of the nightly builds and that seems to crash for some other reason. it used to run fine on mountain lion so presumably it's an issue to do with mavericks
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15:44<LordAro>Rubidium: switch to clang ;) (on osx)
15:45<Rubidium>LordAro: and how does one do that?
15:45<Rubidium>or rather... please provide a cross compile environment ;)
15:45<LordAro>in the same way that you tell the CF to use an old version of gcc?
15:46<@planetmaker>LordAro, you really want to know?
15:47<LordAro>probably not :3
15:47<Rubidium>LordAro: http://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/compile-farm/apple-darwin9.txt <- so, where's the equivalent for clang?
15:47<@planetmaker>rubi was faster than me :D
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15:48<Rubidium>also... we were never able to create a working CF with newer gccs than the one mentioned there
15:48<LordAro>:(
15:48<LordAro>looks scary
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16:07<LordAro>Rubidium, planetmaker: but, i do not see what the problem may be. obviously cut out the gcc part, and provide configure with "CC=clang"
16:07<@planetmaker>LordAro, the obvious problem is to compile the compiler
16:07<@planetmaker>a cross compiler working on linux, compiling an osx binary
16:08<LordAro>hmm, yes
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16:08<@planetmaker>and the other parts of the toolchain which it might need as well
16:09<LordAro>well, maybe: http://clang.llvm.org/docs/CrossCompilation.html
16:09<LordAro>"Clang/LLVM is natively a cross-compiler..."
16:09<LordAro>obviously, i don't know all that much about compilers (or cross-compiling) but.. that seems helpful :)
16:10*planetmaker adds a bookmark to that page
16:10<LordAro>:D
16:10<Rubidium>LordAro: gcc is a cross-compiler itself as well
16:10<aditsu>planetmaker: hey, so after growing that city for a while, it seems that it counts my airport now, but the station tile still has no local authority
16:12<LordAro>Rubidium: but it seems not to work correctly? besides, it's pretty much deprecated on osx
16:12<LordAro>(it == gcc)
16:12<Rubidium>LordAro: and has clang already worked?
16:13<LordAro>obviously not, but at least it's not 8 years old
16:13<LordAro>it can't hurt to investigate a bit
16:13<@planetmaker>many things don't hurt :D
16:14<LordAro>;)
16:14<Rubidium>i.e. spend 100+ hours trying to figure out whether you can create something that might compile
16:14<LordAro>i'll let you have that point ;)
16:15<LordAro>if i get sufficiently bored, i may investigate myself (y'know, funsies), but obviously i don't have access to a mac
16:15<LordAro>or the libraries sdks contained within
16:15-!-sla_ro|master [slamaster@85.186.160.35] has quit []
16:15<LordAro>s/sdks/or sdks/
16:15<@planetmaker>you can get the sdks for not more than registering with apple.com
16:17<Rubidium>LordAro: you think TrueBrain had when he did create the cross compiler?
16:17<LordAro>true :)
16:18<LordAro>but he does mention copying the libraries across from a mac
16:18<+glx>LordAro: because it's easier than to try to open a dmg ;)
16:18<Rubidium>yeah... begging for those files via IRC
16:19<Rubidium>glx: 7z now opens dmgs, so that shouldn't be a problem anymore
16:19<+glx>not all IIRC
16:19<+glx>well last time I tried
16:20<LordAro>ouch
16:20<Rubidium>and you have to hope that everything to compile a proper compiler for OS X is available in the clang you find on the clang website
16:21<Rubidium>I suspect that the clang apple uses is a significantly modified variant
16:21<LordAro>if i understand the clang link above, i shouldn't have to compile clang specially
16:23<LordAro>glx: according to the internet, 7z(ip) opens dmg files
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16:24<+glx>Rubidium: like they did for gcc ?
16:24<Rubidium>exactly
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16:25<Rubidium>LordAro: oh, you definitely have to
16:25<LordAro>apple is a major contributor to clang, they have no reason to, really
16:25<LordAro>(yes, i know that doesn't mean anything :L )
16:28-!-Jomann [~abchirk@g229173058.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
16:29<LordAro>Rubidium: you sure? that documentation page doesn't mention it
16:30<@planetmaker>easiest way: test and prove :-)
16:30<LordAro>:p
16:30<+michi_cc>I'd start at http://www.opensource.apple.com/release/developer-tools-46/, if apple obeys all licenses those sources should be enough.
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16:33<Rubidium>LordAro: clang: warning: argument unused during compilation: '-arch x86-apple-darwin9'
16:34<Rubidium>yet... -arch is the one to select a target to compile for
16:34<LordAro>not according to that documentation page
16:35<LordAro>you want "-target x86-apple-darwin" i think
16:36<Rubidium>LordAro: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2823/
16:36*LordAro shrugs
16:37<LordAro>my `clang --help` says otherwise
16:37<LordAro>arch is not there, target is
16:37<LordAro>(clang 3.3)
16:38<Rubidium>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2824/ <- not really helpful either
16:39<Rubidium>oh good...
16:39<Rubidium>compiling cctools fails well... basically immediately
16:44<Rubidium>oh joy... still need the proper SDK I fear
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16:44<LordAro>i'd be surprised if it was otherwise :)
16:46<Rubidium>so, who fancies giving me the latest xcode dvd dmg?
16:46<Rubidium>oh sorry, not newest... the 4.6 one
16:47<Rubidium>how old that may be
16:47<+michi_cc>I don't think there is any, new(er) Xcode are Mac App Store downloads.
16:47<Rubidium>xcode 5
16:48<@planetmaker>michi_cc, but you can download those w/o appstore from developer site
16:48<@planetmaker>including xcode 5
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16:49<@planetmaker>https://developer.apple.com/downloads/index.action <-- needs (free) login
16:49<Rubidium>I only think that going for a newer SDK also means dropping support for many older ones
16:49<@planetmaker>offers also Xcode 5.0.2
16:49-!-DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd
16:49<@planetmaker>oldest I see there is SDK 10.4
16:49<@planetmaker>10.4.0
16:50<Rubidium>oh, so the wikipedia page isn't telling the whole story
16:50<@planetmaker>and Xcode 2.3 and Xcode Tools 1.0
16:51<Rubidium>anyhow, I can't be bothered to enter like 50 fields to sign up for something I don't actually want
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>anybody solved my fdisk problem yet?
16:51<Rubidium>dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda ?
16:52-!-dada__ [~chocobone@92.109.206.41] has quit [Quit: goodbyte]
16:53<Eddi|zuHause>the disk partition is set as "start=63" but if i delete it and create a new partition i can only enter numbers >=2048
16:56<+michi_cc>Rubidium: I have a Xcode 3.2.6 image somewhere
16:56<Eddi|zuHause>ah, there's an "expert" mode that lets me move the beginning
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17:04<Eddi|zuHause>Successfully resized NTFS on device '/dev/loop2'. that sounds promising
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17:09<Eddi|zuHause>hm, something isn't working
17:11<Rubidium>michi_cc: I found some other way to get the dmg
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17:17<Rubidium>oh splendid... 7z can't handle it anymore :(
17:17<LordAro>it's supposed to :L
17:18<LordAro>i assume you have a version that's less than 5 years old?
17:18<LordAro>http://www.7-zip.org/history.txt
17:19<Rubidium>2010-11-18
17:21<frosch123>night
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17:24<LordAro>Rubidium: hmm, yes, same
17:24<LordAro>hmm, in the 9.29 alpha "- DMG support was improved"
17:24<LordAro>might be relevant
17:26<LordAro>peazip claims it has full support for dmg, try that?
17:27<Rubidium>that ain't in Debian :(
17:28<LordAro>:(
17:28<LordAro>there's a .deb: http://peazip.sourceforge.net/peazip-linux.html
17:31<Rubidium>joy... 32 bits
17:31<LordAro>:L
17:31<Rubidium>oh... hidden away 64 bit
17:32<Rubidium>ah, that seems succesful
17:32<Rubidium>except that it needs a password
17:33<LordAro>the dmg? :L
17:33<Rubidium>the 3.hfs inside it
17:33<LordAro>ha
17:34<Rubidium>so no OS X CF based on 4.6.3 by me
17:35<LordAro>:L
17:36<LordAro>there's nothing (obvious) mentioned about it on the internets
17:36<LordAro>is that the sdk download?
17:36<Rubidium>well, I reckon OS X's finder has the key
17:37<LordAro>possible
17:39<Rubidium>but this, again, shows that Apple doesn't fancy cross compiling to OS X
17:40<LordAro>of course not, doesn't mean it's not possible
17:40<Rubidium>and it doesn't allow running it on anything but OS X hardware
17:40<Rubidium>s/OS X/Apple/
17:40<Rubidium>and it doesn't have rack mounted hardware
17:40*LordAro is in no way defending the idiot policies of apple
17:41<Rubidium>so, I guess we're back to just dropping support for gcc < 4.4 ;)
17:41<LordAro>i wouldn't say no, personally
17:41<Rubidium>although... < 4.6, after all 4.5 isn't supported anyhow
17:41<LordAro>other than the apple CF, you'd only lose people who use strange OSs, like amiga
17:42<Rubidium>dropping support is more like "not supporting it for creating binaries"
17:43<Rubidium>but sadly enough it doesn't really work, because then $random person is going to post binaries on the forum
17:43<LordAro>could you not "support it for creating binaries" in that pm or someone similar builds it themselves and uploads it to openttd.org ?
17:43<Rubidium>LordAro: *every* night?
17:43<+glx>every day ?
17:43<LordAro>obviously not for nightlies
17:44<@planetmaker>oh hell, please no
17:44<+glx>for releases that's possible
17:44<LordAro>releases and candidates
17:44<Eddi|zuHause>what do linux console people use for hex editing?
17:44<@planetmaker>then it gets less testing, more buggy releases etc
17:44<LordAro>quite a few of the people who use nightlies on osx can compile themselves anyway
17:44<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: hexedit?
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>no such commmand
17:45<Rubidium>LordAro: and a larger amount can't
17:45<Rubidium>but those that can't usually don't show up here
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>and no such package either
17:45<LordAro>but who cares about them?
17:45<LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: i have it ;)
17:45<@planetmaker>LordAro, that's the whole point... so that people can *easily* test it
17:46<LordAro>well, make it a temporary measure while you work on updating/fix the CF ;)
17:47<Rubidium>LordAro: it is extremely tedious to upload a file into the download system
17:47<@planetmaker>why should we disable it - for a single bug?
17:47<Rubidium>and ... fehlerhaft
17:47<Rubidium>or isn't that the right word?
17:48<LordAro>faulty, according to google
17:48<@planetmaker>fehlerträchtig, I'd assume, Rubidium
17:49<@planetmaker>but I don't know exactly what aspect you try to emphasize
17:49<@planetmaker>fehlerhaft = buggy; fehlerträchtig = simple to be done wrongly
17:50<Rubidium>oh lovely...
17:50<Rubidium>the one you mentioned gets mostly 'buggy' as well in translations
17:50<Rubidium>maybe fehleranfällig is better?
17:50<LordAro>there's nothing wrong with suspending auto builds for a platform you can't properly support
17:50<Eddi|zuHause>ah... "ht" i have
17:50<@planetmaker>yeah, fehleranfällig ~= fehlerträchtig
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>i never heard the word "fehlerträchtig" before
17:52<@planetmaker>you're known to have a particular dialect ;-)
17:53<Rubidium>LordAro: under that premise we should drop OS X and Windows
17:53<LordAro>i think you have at least some windows developers ;)
17:54<+glx>not very active ;)
17:54<Eddi|zuHause>people always tell me i have very little dialect :p
17:54<Eddi|zuHause>(unless i speak english)
17:54<LordAro>glx: :p
17:54<Rubidium>LordAro: take a look at the bug tracker, sort by ID, then from the bottom go though the first 16. Which is more prominent?
17:54<@planetmaker>yeah, little for people living near saxony :-)
17:55<Rubidium>having said that, 2/3 OS X issues are probably the broken CF
17:55<Eddi|zuHause>fuck you, fdisk. hexedit works way better...
17:56<Rubidium>5/5 Windows issues seem to have nothing to do with the CF
17:56<LordAro>:p
18:00<LordAro>hmm, https://developer.apple.com/downloads/index.action doesn't seem to be working
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18:04<@planetmaker>it needs log-in, lobster
18:04<@planetmaker>hmpf. LordAro ^
18:05<LordAro>done that
18:07<LordAro>ah, that's better, i hadn't registered correctly, apparently
18:08<LordAro>so i don't want xcode 5?
18:08<@planetmaker>dunno. what do you want? :-)
18:08<LordAro>dunno
18:08<LordAro>i have no idea what i'm doing
18:08<@planetmaker>xcode5 is for 10.8 + 10.9 SDKs
18:09<@planetmaker>CF uses 10.4u SDK
18:09<+glx>latest powerpc SDK
18:09<@planetmaker>yep
18:10<LordAro>is supporting ppc really necessary anymore? :L
18:10<@planetmaker>it wouldn't hurt to compile two... 10.3.9 ... 10.5. And 10.6+
18:10<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: allegedly ppc support is the least problematic
18:10<@planetmaker>LordAro, it's the only big-endian OS - CPU combination we support
18:11<@planetmaker>thus it's a nice test case for endianess stuff
18:11<@planetmaker>could be interesting for some ARM stuff in the future :-)
18:11<+glx>we already have 3 windows builds
18:11<@planetmaker>yeah, that's why
18:11<@planetmaker>10.6+ wouldn't even need to be universal. just 32bit suffices
18:12<+glx>OSX is not 64bit ?
18:12<@planetmaker>though... 64bit wouldn't hurt; I doubt there's any 32bit OS in 10.6+
18:12*LordAro downloads xcode 4.6.2 for lolz
18:12<NGC3982>The Swedish Aftonbladet (sensationalistic newspaper) just described the "Highly trained monkeys'-error message as a hacker attack.
18:12<@planetmaker>10.4 already started the transition to 64 bit
18:12<NGC3982>My faith in humanity got a mild stroke.
18:13<@planetmaker>and supported that somewhat
18:13<@planetmaker>10.5 afaik 'finished' the transition
18:18<Wolf01>'night
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22:30<Bloody_Mikey>hi is there a way to have 2 coal in one town?
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22:38<Bloody_Mikey>multiple_industry_per_town does not work :(
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23:54<Eddi|zuHause>Bloody_Mikey: changing the .cfg will not affect your existing savegames
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---Logclosed Tue Nov 19 00:00:38 2013