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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-11-22

---Logopened Fri Nov 22 00:00:44 2013
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01:33<NGC3982>Morning.
01:33<NGC3982>Or moin.
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01:44<Eddi|zuHause>not the same thing
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03:29<__ln__>good beforenoon
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06:53<titanen>hey all
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09:44-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
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10:18<Woolridge_>hey there
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10:26<Woolridge_>someone there?
10:27<LordAro>maybe
10:28<Woolridge_>well, i just wanted to ask if there is any way to chance the costs to establish cities @ottd
10:29<LordAro>iirc, no
10:29<LordAro>other than using a base cost changing newgrf
10:29<LordAro>maybe
10:33<Woolridge_>well, is it difficult to create a customized newgrf?
10:34<LordAro>not too much
10:34<LordAro>look up the existing base cost modifier newgrfs
10:34<LordAro>they may do it for you
10:34<@planetmaker>if it's just about changing costs, use one of the configurable base costs NewGRFs
10:34<@planetmaker>:)
10:35<LordAro>/o planetmaker
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10:35<@planetmaker>heya :-)
10:36<Woolridge_>well, it's only purpose would be to change the cities and producing industry costs, could you recommend me one for that?
10:37<@planetmaker>"base cost grf" ;-)
10:37<@planetmaker>or was it called "base cost mod"?
10:38<Woolridge_>well ok, i'll look for both and try it out, thx =)
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10:44<Woolridge_>oh btw, how do i configure a newgrf? (sorry i'm a total noob at this stuff)
10:49<@peter1138>💃
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12:34<__ln__>http://middle-earth.thehobbit.com/
12:40<LordAro>shame it's just a hobbit map really
12:40<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, it could have been a whole middle earth map...
12:42*LordAro decides to listen to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfFQuhWaA_k
12:42<__ln__>i find the choice of language interesting, though i'm not quite sure what it is
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12:51<Rubidium>oh lord...
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12:53-!-DarkAce-Z is now known as DarkAceZ
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13:25<NGC3982>The LOTR/Hobbit soundtracks is a real bomb.
13:25<LordAro>of course
13:28<NGC3982>Being moderately interested in movies, thinking of what Peter Jackson came from - and what he did - Still confuses me.
13:28<LordAro>?
13:28<NGC3982>Meet the feebles and Bad taste is not bad movies, of course.
13:30<NGC3982>Though, the amount of kudos he should have for re-inventing the industry standard with his first big budget movie is greater than the amount of coal you guys ship per weekend.
13:30<LordAro>^
13:30-!-gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3358.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
13:31<NGC3982>Sure, from a plot point of view the movies does not hold up in every bit
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26045 /trunk/src/lang (norwegian_bokmal.txt swedish.txt) (2013-11-22 18:45:13 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>norwegian_bokmal - 2 changes by Trond
13:45<@DorpsGek>swedish - 3 changes by abbedabb
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14:06<andythenorth>http://www.flickr.com/photos/46711946@N07/sets/72157637915418213/with/10982394894/
14:08<NGC3982>That is one glued flame.
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14:11<andythenorth>quak
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14:13<@Alberth>quakquak
14:13<frosch123>moin
14:14<LordAro>moinmoin
14:14<frosch123>i think i am the one who says "quak" the least in this channel :p
14:14<LordAro>:p
14:15<@planetmaker>quaak
14:15<@planetmaker>:-P
14:15<@Alberth>never too late to start quak-ing:)
14:19<andythenorth>hmm
14:19<andythenorth>shippety ship
14:19*andythenorth should work on some Squid
14:19<andythenorth>maybe wine first
14:23<andythenorth>hmm
14:23*andythenorth needs to write code to write code
14:23<andythenorth>always such lol
14:26<@Alberth>make a second andy
14:27<@Alberth>then you can have someone writing the code to write the code for you :)
14:27<Superuser>yodawg.jpg
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14:40<andythenorth>bah
14:40<andythenorth>my code-writing script needs to know the filenames I want to mangle
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14:51<andythenorth>hmm
14:52<andythenorth>wonder what happens if...
14:52<frosch123>better press the green button, not the red one
14:54<andythenorth>importing a module to my code-writing script, then rewriting it on the filesystem using that script...?
14:54<andythenorth>wise?
14:58<@Alberth>doesn't sound like it :)
15:14<andythenorth>oh well
15:14<andythenorth>what could possibly go wrong? o_O
15:14<andythenorth>I can always rollback :P
15:19<andythenorth>hmm code writing code ftw
15:23<@Alberth>I know, I live on it :p
15:24<andythenorth>o_O
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15:26<andythenorth>anyone want to write some parameter code for me?
15:26<@Alberth>although in practice that part of the code is small compared to the stuff you need to express what to generate ;)
15:26<andythenorth>generators seem to have that interesting problem :)
15:26<@Alberth>k, I'll bite
15:26<andythenorth>having written a few now, configuration is much harder that generation :P
15:27<andythenorth>than *
15:27<andythenorth>Alberth: nml parameters, action 14? o_O
15:27<@Alberth>oh, that parameter code :p
15:27<andythenorth>:)
15:27<andythenorth>I should do it I guess
15:27<@Alberth>let me read the nml about it
15:27<andythenorth>if you want to learn, FISH is a nice easy project :)
15:30<@Alberth>what do you want to have?
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15:30<andythenorth>have you got the code checked out?
15:31<frosch123>maybe some iron/copper/platin horse switch?
15:31<Superuser>I thought you meant the Linux shell fish, but then I checked what channel this way
15:31<Superuser>was*
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15:31<andythenorth>frosch123 :P
15:34<@Alberth>yes, was 107 changesets behind :)
15:35<Kjetil>Whatever happened to the multiple industries of the same type in the same town option ?
15:35<@Alberth>nothing
15:35<frosch123>check your filter settings
15:36<Kjetil>heh
15:36<@Alberth>filters seem to cause a lot of confusion
15:36<andythenorth>Alberth: I've just added a 'vehicle_groups' property to ships (it's a list)
15:36<Kjetil>"Advanced settings" -> "Show: Basic Settings"
15:36<frosch123>Alberth: only for old users :)
15:36<andythenorth>I want a parameter with options 'All Ships', 'Sea Ships Only', 'River Boats Only'
15:36<Kjetil>new users don't know what they are looking for ?
15:37<frosch123>yes
15:37<andythenorth>I hope the rest is obvious :)
15:37<@Alberth>new users don't know about options they cannot see :p
15:37<frosch123>and old users will learn in the next 2 years
15:37<andythenorth>if you get bored kick it back to me, I don't 100% mind writing my own code :P
15:37<andythenorth>but I welcome help
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15:39<Kjetil>The colorscheme of the Advanced settings dialog doesn't help. Dark text on dark colours makes the dropdown boxes easy to ignore
15:39<Superuser>^
15:40<@planetmaker>Kjetil, don't use 'company colour' newgrfs. They screw with the UI colours
15:40<@planetmaker>i.e. black or white company colour NewGRFs are known to have strange side effects in this area
15:40<andythenorth>nah, even vanilla, he's right
15:41<andythenorth>the advanced settings is black on purple
15:41<andythenorth>compare it to newgrf window - black on yellow
15:41<andythenorth>the legibility of advanced settings is...not the best :)
15:41<andythenorth>we have low consistency in this stuff :)
15:41<andythenorth>consistency can be over-rated, but variation without a reason can make a UI stinkier :)
15:41<frosch123>it is not has bad as the custom currency window :p
15:42<@planetmaker>ah... well, that contrast has been sufficient for me so far. But colour vision here is one of the few things ok with my eyes :-P
15:42*andythenorth explores
15:42<andythenorth>where is custom currency?
15:42*andythenorth wonders if we should do a UI tidy
15:42<andythenorth>there has been an old idea that we could fix it all 'properly', but none of us can be bothered
15:43<frosch123>andythenorth: the master plan consists of removing colour codes from strings and adding {emph} and {noemph} commands
15:43<andythenorth>but a nice refresh would be a nice little feature
15:43<andythenorth>frosch123: that's kind of nice
15:43<frosch123>then making those fixed to the backgruond colour
15:43<andythenorth>are colours controlled by classes?
15:43<andythenorth>or would they be?
15:44<andythenorth>colours of setting panels seem to vary quite a bit :)
15:44<@planetmaker>they currently aren't. It's just hard-coded
15:44<andythenorth>could we move them to constants?
15:44<andythenorth>or define some classes?
15:44<andythenorth>(same thing)
15:44*andythenorth digs a bit more
15:45<andythenorth>do the different colours help anyone recognise different panels?
15:45<andythenorth>e.g. game options is grey, other panels are purple
15:45<andythenorth>is that helpful, or just 'meh' ?
15:45<frosch123>andythenorth: https://wiki.openttd.org/GUI_Style#Window_colours
15:45<andythenorth>so game options is not in spec
15:46<andythenorth>for historical reasons
15:46<frosch123>not all windows comply ofc :)
15:46<andythenorth>ofc :)
15:46<andythenorth>transparency settings is out of spec too
15:46<frosch123>it's a toolbar
15:46<andythenorth>as is save
15:46<andythenorth>transparency != construction :o
15:47<andythenorth>:)
15:47<andythenorth>maybe it does
15:47<frosch123>i guess load/save could use brown
15:47<frosch123>hmm, no, smallmap is also brown
15:47<andythenorth>I would say brown for load/save
15:47<andythenorth>according to style guide
15:47<andythenorth>it's a 'general window'
15:48<frosch123>brown are all the neutral lists in game
15:48<frosch123>towns, map, industries
15:48<andythenorth>could be the style guide that is out-of-spec :)
15:49<andythenorth>so cargo payment rates is incorrect
15:49<andythenorth>actually that one has stuck out to me for a while - because the minimap and industry chains are brown
15:49<andythenorth>company league table should be brown
15:51<andythenorth>debug windows maybe shouldn't be grey
15:51<andythenorth>grey makes sense for utility windows tbh, I think the style guide is wrong there
15:52<frosch123>fix it :)
15:52<andythenorth>Grey Company windows (vehicles, finances), utility windows (save, load, newgrf and AI debug)
15:52<andythenorth>?
15:53<@planetmaker>you mean gray for all those? yeah
15:53<andythenorth>I'll adjust wiki
15:53<@planetmaker>will be interesting to see AI / NewGRF config in gray :D
15:53<andythenorth>nah, I think the config should stay in purple, I mis-explained
15:54<andythenorth>there are a group of mostly dev-related windows that should be grey
15:54<andythenorth>and the save/load is a bit of an odd one
15:55<@Alberth>no lang file in fish?
15:56<andythenorth>Alberth: compiled
15:56-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1BB5A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
15:56<@Alberth>ah
15:56<andythenorth>updated https://wiki.openttd.org/GUI_Style#Window_colours
15:57<andythenorth>frosch123: is this an interesting project to fix window colours, or boring? o_O
15:58<frosch123>i wouldn't call it challenging :)
15:58<frosch123>but for windows with dynamic text context, you need to be careful to not miss any texts
15:59<frosch123>hmm, though if you need to change colours in strings, the script to adapt the other languages could be interesting :)
16:00<andythenorth>I'd probably unify all the purple windows to match newgrf style - yellow on the important buttons
16:00<@Alberth>andythenorth: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2833/ something like this? it fails to build though
16:00<andythenorth>it's not subtle, but it is very usable
16:01<andythenorth>Alberth: looks about right. Actually making them available or hiding them is done in the property block with climate availability prop. What compile message are you getting?
16:04-!-DanMacK [~d83be170@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
16:04<DanMacK>Hey all
16:04<@Alberth>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2834/ but perhaps my build environment is old or incomplete
16:04<andythenorth>hi DanMacK
16:04<frosch123>andythenorth: if you want to dive into colours. some advice: don't look at scenario editor, or you will drown :p
16:04<andythenorth>frosch123: thanks for warning, I can't swim, I'll stay away
16:05<andythenorth>Alberth: pulled the absolute latest? o_O
16:05<andythenorth>might be that repo was slow with my last commit
16:06<@Alberth>it claims I have the newest version :)
16:06*andythenorth tests
16:07<@Alberth>making clean, and retrying doesn't help either
16:07<andythenorth>Alberth: I think I know the issue :)
16:07<@Alberth>then you know more than me :)
16:07<andythenorth>Ship class doesn't have a vehicle_groups prop :P
16:07<andythenorth>oopsie
16:07<@Alberth>lol
16:07<andythenorth>1 min
16:09<andythenorth>Alberth: pushed
16:13<@Alberth>it has an indentation error :p src/fish.py", line 71 but seems to build
16:13<andythenorth>another oopsie
16:14<andythenorth>it's astounding that *any* of my code works
16:14<andythenorth>pull
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16:25<@Alberth>hmm, False doesn't get expanded.
16:25<andythenorth>he
16:26<andythenorth>how pythonic :)
16:28<@Alberth>is it?
16:28-!-adf89 [~Thunderbi@wis-zul.spine.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:28<andythenorth>probably not :P Paste offending code?
16:30<@Alberth>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2835/ fixed with an 1 if b else 0 :)
16:30<@Alberth>It's not happy though, nmlc warning: "fish.nml", line 570: Block 'barletta_paddle_steamer_switch_available_ship_type' is not referenced, ignoring.
16:31-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6CD96.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:32<andythenorth>switch unreferenced :)
16:32<andythenorth>but a switch isn't the solution here anyway, unless something changed in the spec :)
16:32*andythenorth looks for a bit of code
16:33<andythenorth>it's similar to how FIRS does economies
16:33<@Alberth>please feel free to adjust
16:34<andythenorth>want to commit and I'll finish it? :)
16:34<andythenorth>I don't mind that it doesn't compile
16:35<@Alberth>pushed
16:35<andythenorth>ta
16:41<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26046 /trunk/src/network/core (3 files) (2013-11-22 21:41:19 UTC)
16:41<@DorpsGek>-Fix: handle a number of failure conditions from methods called in the network code
16:41<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26047 trunk/src/network/network_content.cpp (2013-11-22 21:41:49 UTC)
16:41<@DorpsGek>-Fix: possible, but very unlikely, null pointer dereference when gunziping just downloaded files
16:42<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26048 trunk/src/story_gui.cpp (2013-11-22 21:42:20 UTC)
16:42<@DorpsGek>-Fix: use delete instead of free when allocated by new
16:42<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26049 trunk/src/order_gui.cpp (2013-11-22 21:42:47 UTC)
16:42<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: remove some dead code as order can't be NULL there
16:43<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26050 /trunk/src (strgen/strgen_base.cpp table/strgen_tables.h) (2013-11-22 21:43:47 UTC)
16:43<@DorpsGek>-Fix: possible, but currently untriggered, out of bounds access in strgen
16:44<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26051 trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp (2013-11-22 21:44:23 UTC)
16:44<@DorpsGek>-Fix: out of bounds access in CmdTownCargoGoal
16:44<Xaroth|Work>somebody's busy :o
16:44<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26052 trunk/src/company_base.h (2013-11-22 21:44:51 UTC)
16:44<@DorpsGek>-Fix: missing virtual destructor could cause some memory to be not freed
16:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26053 trunk/src/newgrf_gui.cpp (2013-11-22 21:45:28 UTC)
16:45<@DorpsGek>-Fix: possible use-after-free
16:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26054 trunk/src/strgen/strgen.cpp (2013-11-22 21:45:57 UTC)
16:46<@DorpsGek>-Fix: minor memory leak in strgen
16:46<Xaroth|Work>Rubidium: either you are extremely bored, or you have been saving these up for a while :o
16:47<andythenorth>"All Ships", "Sea Ships", "River Boats"
16:47<andythenorth>confusing?
16:47<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26055 trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp (2013-11-22 21:47:03 UTC)
16:47<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: mark switch default as really not triggerable, as technically it's dead code
16:47<andythenorth>are Boats also Ships?
16:47<@planetmaker>quite clear, andythenorth
16:47<andythenorth>okey dokey
16:47<frosch123>Xaroth|Work: don't underestimate the efficience of rb
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16:50<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26056 /trunk/src (6 files in 3 dirs) (2013-11-22 21:50:43 UTC)
16:50<@DorpsGek>-Fix: a number of possibly uninitialised variables
16:52<@Alberth>good night
16:52<@planetmaker>good night, Alberth
16:52<andythenorth>bye thanks :)
16:52<andythenorth>(nearly finished btw)
16:52<@Alberth>yw :)
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16:53<Taede>evening
16:54<@planetmaker>hi Taede
16:55<Xaroth|Work>o/
16:55<Taede>Xaroth|Work: thats+----
16:55<Taede>+
16:55<Taede>+
16:55<Taede>dg
16:56<Taede>first time dog typed...
16:56<Xaroth|Work>o_O
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16:57<Taede>what i meant to say was that soap is now on a live server
16:57<Xaroth|Work>nice
17:07<frosch123>night
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17:12*andythenorth needs the makefile to bounce the OS X dock icon or something
17:12<andythenorth>when done
17:12<andythenorth>'say done'
17:12<andythenorth>'beep'
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17:15<andythenorth>hmm there's some kind of bell command
17:15<andythenorth>dunno how to trigger it with bash
17:15-!-sla_ro|master [slamaster@85.186.160.35] has quit []
17:16<Xaroth|Work>echo -e '\a' iirc
17:17<andythenorth>tput bel
17:17<andythenorth>echo -e '\a' also works
17:17<andythenorth>ta
17:17<Xaroth|Work>:)
17:18<andythenorth>planetmaker: can I have a cookie? ^
17:19<andythenorth>I know I can chain it with &&
17:19<andythenorth>but that is more typing :P
17:19<@planetmaker>I can't say I'd be too much fond of a Makefile which bings at me
17:20<andythenorth>maybe I just write myself a local .sh
17:20<andythenorth>compiles take so long that I have to go play dice wars or something while I wait :)
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18:08<andythenorth>good night
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18:39<montalvo>is there any way to increase passengers at a railway station besides just increasing the town population?
18:58<Eddi|zuHause>make a bus service that has "transfer and leave empty" at the railway station, so you cover a larger area of the town
19:03-!-yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:04<+glx>and that also increase town size
19:06<Eddi|zuHause>meh... i bought this USB stick which has this annoying habit of flashing red while it's idle...
19:06<Eddi|zuHause>anybody know if that is programmable?
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19:14<montalvo>okay, i'll try that
19:14<montalvo>also, could i have a little hand with some signals?
19:14<+glx>Eddi|zuHause: probably not programmable
19:15<Eddi|zuHause>it annoys me as hell
19:15<+glx>like sticks with static light when idle
19:15<+glx>I prefer when there's light only on activity
19:17<Eddi|zuHause>static light would at least be less annoying than flashing on and off constantly
19:17<montalvo>http://i.imgur.com/MGHFeSY.png
19:18<montalvo>i realise i should probably have drawn on that
19:18<montalvo>but uh
19:18<montalvo>trains come in from the lower track, top left to bottom right
19:18<montalvo>the problem is that at the intersection they try to go down the track that's one lower
19:22<Supercheese>there's a mix of electrified and unelectrified
19:22<Supercheese>you may need to electrify all the rails if you're using electric trains
19:23<Eddi|zuHause>unrelated: you should probably use path signals at the junction
19:23<Eddi|zuHause>but i didn't actually understand the problem
19:23*montalvo facepalms
19:24<montalvo>thanks for that
19:24<montalvo>Eddi|zuHause, i'm not too familiar with how to use path signals
19:24<Eddi|zuHause>just put them anywhere you want a train to wait before a junction
19:25<Eddi|zuHause>if a train waits at a place where it blocks the junction, remove that signal
19:25<Supercheese>I'd wager at least 60% of all "why on earth are my trains doing these weird things?" problems are due to forgetting to electrify rails
19:25<montalvo>Supercheese, almost certainly
19:25<Eddi|zuHause>"Well there is a way for this to stop happening, I unintentionally stopped it by formating the flash drive."
19:26<Superuser>why you no use zbase
19:26<montalvo>Eddi|zuHause, it worked i think, thanks!
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20:34<alluke>half of the people calling to the game show are so drunk theyre struggling to answer the question :D
20:38<alluke>im laughing my fucking ass off XD
20:51<Eddi|zuHause>i'm unsure whether i should just return this USB stick with the words "nowhere on this package it said 'flashes constantly'"
20:51<Eddi|zuHause>all the "guides" out there just say "open it and cover the LED"
20:52<Eddi|zuHause>but chances are i break it and lose the warranty this way...
20:52<alluke>whats wrong with flashing leds
20:52<alluke>i fancy all that stuff
20:53<+glx>nothing when it's only on activity
20:53<Eddi|zuHause>THEY ARE FUCKING ANNOYING
20:53<alluke>:D
20:53<Eddi|zuHause>because it's on INACTIVITY
20:53<alluke>open the stick and disconnect the led wires?
20:54<alluke>or swap it with my 2gb kingston stick :3
20:54<Supercheese>I doubt there's a firmware/software solution
20:54<Supercheese>most stupid LEDs like that can't be easily turned off
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20:57<Eddi|zuHause>well, i found 512 bytes of "random data" at the end of the disk, and tried to erase that (because someone said the flashing disappeared after a format)
20:57<Eddi|zuHause>but that did nothing
20:57<Eddi|zuHause>not sure what that data does
20:58<Eddi|zuHause>or is that some FAT stuff at the very last sector?
20:58<alluke>dont know
20:59<alluke>but if i was you id fill it with the best of efukt and leave on someones doorstep
21:01<Eddi|zuHause>i probably don't want to know what that is
21:01<alluke>efukt.com
21:01<alluke>kind of humour site
21:01<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, certainly i'm going to open that :p
21:02<alluke>well ive laughed my ass of man times on that site :P
21:02<alluke>but im completely nuts too
21:02<alluke>somhow i havent got into mental hospital yet
21:05<Eddi|zuHause>"canada wants to create 'lakes' from toxic waste of oil-sand extraction"
21:05<Eddi|zuHause>that doesn't sound healthy
21:05<alluke>toxic waste lakes
21:05<alluke>sounds fun
21:06<Eddi|zuHause>well, they mix the toxic water with fresh water...
21:07<alluke>do they want to ruin their waters
21:08<Eddi|zuHause>i can't see any other reason to do this...
21:10<Eddi|zuHause>apparently they're hoping that bacteria process the waste
21:10<alluke>shouldnt they test that in some separated pool
21:10<Eddi|zuHause>but they have no fucking clue how long it would take
21:10<Eddi|zuHause>they apparently have a "test pond" but now want to make one that is 200 times larger
21:11<alluke>then make one
21:11<alluke>they should have enough money
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21:22<alluke>someone make a quick mp game for this night
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22:11<alluke>now im going to take a shit
22:11<alluke>i know you care
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---Logclosed Sat Nov 23 00:00:46 2013