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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-12-01

---Logopened Sun Dec 01 00:00:58 2013
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01:42<andythenorth>o/
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02:54<waterfoul>I've built a cyclotron and the signals seem to be working correctly but instead of the train going around and the train manintaining speed it stops. any ideas?
02:56<V453000>yeah, apart from cyclotrons being stupid and useless, you can still either enable 2way eol setting, or stop building them :P or both!
02:56<V453000>both is the best option
02:56<Eddi|zuHause>coop stuff silently assumes that you enabled the hidden setting "pf.yapf.rail_two_way_eol"
02:57<waterfoul>ok, I've got a merge that keeps slowing down the main line because the train isn't ar top speed, any better suggestions to fix this?
02:57<V453000>it is actually mentioned on some pages Eddi
02:58<V453000>yeah add another line waterfoul
02:59<Eddi|zuHause>the setting is actually silly, as most stuff you can build in a way that it works without this setting
02:59<waterfoul>any docs on the setting? my googlefu is failing
03:00<Eddi|zuHause>you change hidden settings on the console
03:00<waterfoul>right but before I change it I want to know what it does
03:00<Eddi|zuHause>or in the openttd.cfg (won't apply to your savegame)
03:00<V453000>most stuff == with idiotic pathfinding penalty counting and poor reliability (recounting values upon edits?), not to mention that some things like mainly the key sending trains to dead ends is not possible I think
03:00<V453000>so yeah
03:01<V453000>http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Two-way-Signals
03:01<V453000>btw Eddi I am fairly confident that cyclotron isnt quite "a coop thing"
03:01<waterfoul>thanks
03:02<V453000>for one because it isnt really useful for bigger networks
03:02<V453000>people lazy to add more lines just use it in hope that it will be enough to improve their one line
03:02<V453000>which isnt exactly the fitting logic :P
03:02<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: don't challenge my prejudices!
03:03<V453000>!! :D
03:03<waterfoul>right but the side line isn't injecting enough traffic to warrant a mainline, I was just after merging at top speed
03:03<V453000>in fact cyclotron doesnt even seem to exist on our wiki :D
03:04<V453000>get better accelerating trains waterfoul :)
03:04<waterfoul>using the LEV4
03:04<V453000>yeah thats about the worst you can get
03:04<waterfoul>are any of the other levs better?
03:04<V453000>lev3 accelerates considerably better
03:04<V453000>for one because it is half the length so you can use more of them
03:05<V453000>aaaaand they are slower so they reach the top speed quicker
03:05<V453000>obviously SH40 is even better in acceleration but kind of boring to use that slow train :)
03:05<V453000>perhaps try some train set
03:05<Eddi|zuHause>i thought you'd answer like "use the slugs!" :p
03:05<V453000>nay :D
03:06<Eddi|zuHause>use CETS (but that doesn't have any fast freight wagons)
03:06<Eddi|zuHause>(nor any maglev)
03:06<V453000>:DDD
03:06<V453000>nor anything else almost? :D
03:06<V453000>or NUTS, it has everything :P
03:07<Eddi|zuHause>it has about 1000 engines :p
03:07<V453000>without sprites (.
03:07<Eddi|zuHause>it has coloured boxes now, instead of green boxes
03:07<V453000>lol
03:07<V453000>thats pretty much what my steamer tenders look like right now :D
03:08*andythenorth reads up
03:08<andythenorth>eh?
03:08<andythenorth>hmm
03:09<andythenorth>isn't the most efficient route one line per train?
03:09<V453000>what
03:09<andythenorth>that avoids all this merging crap and such
03:09<andythenorth>that's how I play when I care about speed
03:09<V453000>:|
03:09<Eddi|zuHause>that also severely limits your capacity per space
03:09<V453000>andythenorth please :D
03:14<andythenorth>so with YACD, the best pax networks (especially at game start) are dense clusters
03:14<andythenorth>and adding more nearby nodes is good, even if they are small villages
03:14<andythenorth>does the same apply for cdist?
03:15<andythenorth>also how do I figure out where passengers want to go?
03:15<andythenorth>YACD tells me the destinations, including unmet demand
03:17<Eddi|zuHause>cargodist plays much different, it doesn't force you to cover all sources/destinations
03:18<V453000>cargodist doesnt force you to use cargodist, its perfect :D
03:18<V453000>:DDD
03:18<Eddi|zuHause>in yacd this is a real hassle in the early game with lots of different industries/cargos
03:18<V453000>in yacd the easiest AND best network = web of stations, no junctions, just station---station connections
03:19<andythenorth>so I have 4 nodes connected in my pax network. But how do I know which to connect next?
03:19<V453000>mainly because stations solve all the redistribution, not to mention the "local destinations"
03:19<V453000>any :D
03:20*andythenorth wonders where passengers are going
03:20<@planetmaker>moin
03:20<andythenorth>everything is 'via'
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03:20<andythenorth>I don't get how people can demand to go 'via'
03:20<Eddi|zuHause>click on "via-destination-source" and change that to "destination-via-source"
03:21<andythenorth>ok
03:21<andythenorth>that makes more sense
03:21<andythenorth>oh but I still have to build the routes 'via'
03:21<andythenorth>so just adding more capacity to the destination is no good?
03:22<Eddi|zuHause>"via" is which next stop they take
03:22<andythenorth>why is the demand expressed for routing, not for destination? o_O
03:22<Eddi|zuHause>this can be used to find bottlenecks in your network
03:22*andythenorth is very confused
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03:23<andythenorth>does cdist even have a concept of demand?
03:23<Eddi|zuHause>if your train has not enough capacity, people pile up for "via" while they may have lots of different "destinations"
03:23<andythenorth>is my thinking faulty?
03:23<Eddi|zuHause>yes. demand is fixed
03:23<Eddi|zuHause>demand is calculated on distance
03:24<Eddi|zuHause>i.e. if you connect two power stations to one coal mine, the closer one will get more cargo
03:24<Eddi|zuHause>for symmetric cargos like passengers, demand equals production
03:26<andythenorth>so how do I see demand? So I know which routes to build?
03:26<andythenorth>I can't see any demand view
03:27<Eddi|zuHause>in cargodist there is no demand before you make a route
03:27<andythenorth>so I have to build the route to create demand?
03:27<V453000>turning cargodist off is always a solution andythenorth :P
03:27<V453000>yes
03:27<Eddi|zuHause>yes
03:28<andythenorth>hmm
03:28<andythenorth>so if I add a node to my small pax network, the other vehicles will make less money?
03:29<andythenorth>as some of their pax cargos will be re-routed to the new node?
03:29<Eddi|zuHause>no-ish, because the cargo from the new node, plus the increased distance, may generate more income overall
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04:34<andythenorth>when are flat docks being added? :(
04:34<andythenorth>construction for river docks is stupid
04:36<V453000>train stations are flat?
04:37<V453000>remove ships \o/
04:38<andythenorth>V453000: I like your thinking
04:38<andythenorth>I think it is practical, and gets stuff done
04:38<V453000>see :D
04:39<V453000>oh yeah and I just discovered that my templates seem to have one of the / \ directions a thing moved 2px horizontally, 1px vertically :D so it isnt a problem but it isnt symmetrical :D
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04:43<@Alberth>nobody will notice :)
04:44<V453000>sure, people wont, I very do when I try to align two templates together XD
04:45<@planetmaker>^ reason enough to fix probably :D
04:45<V453000>exactly :D
04:45<V453000>but sometime later :d
04:45<V453000>everything is "working" atm :D
04:45<V453000>the "" is strong :D
04:46<@planetmaker>:)
04:48<V453000>I can always blame andythenorth anyway
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04:59<andythenorth>meh
05:00<andythenorth>I should have put a GS in this game
05:00<andythenorth>sandbox is so boring
05:00<V453000>play the game instead of wishing for wtf features :P
05:00<V453000>is my GS :P
05:01<andythenorth>how do you avoid being bored?
05:01<andythenorth>I've connected a few towns, now it's 'meh'
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05:04<@Alberth>then you're done; you don't need to play the game until the year 5000000
05:05<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you try transporting ALL the passengers it throws at you
05:06<V453000>idk how you managed to do that andy, but I generally have serious traffic problems after like 2-4 years of playing and need to expand many tracks alrey
05:06<V453000>already*
05:07<V453000>PERHAPS you are playing with the WRONG newGRFs? :D :P
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05:12<andythenorth>I have 1 line per train, what kind of traffic problems can happen there? :)
05:13<andythenorth>(none)
05:19<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the "traffic problems" are "can't carry all cargo"
05:20<andythenorth>I think I should stp
05:20<andythenorth>meh
05:20<andythenorth>I think I should stop playing 'full' FIRS
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05:20<andythenorth>too much choice, not enough high volumes of same cargo
05:22<V453000>oh yeah until you supply firs very quickly, it gets boring super fast
05:22<V453000>I am still saying that original/opengfx+ industries are best and most fun for playing :)
05:22<Eddi|zuHause>i wouldn't know, i get too meddled up with serving passengers to really take care of cargo
05:22<andythenorth>also in 1870, everything takes so long to arrive
05:23<andythenorth>building long routes is meh
05:23<andythenorth>so can only connect nearby industries
05:23<andythenorth>and there are no RVs
05:23<andythenorth>nor planes
05:24<@planetmaker>you definitely need to play with egrvts2 horses then or so :-)
05:24<V453000>:D
05:24<V453000>andy go use nuts or else :P
05:24<V453000>no pre-1920 rubbish
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05:26<@peter1138>BUT IT@S UNREALISTIC!!!!111
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05:32<andythenorth>unrealistical
05:33<andythenorth>next year I definitely write a GS
05:33<andythenorth>with tedious micro-management 'challenges'
05:33<andythenorth>like the casual games my kids play
05:33*andythenorth is serious
05:33<V453000>:D
05:33<V453000>well shit
05:34<V453000>hi peter1138 (:
05:34*andythenorth starts a new game
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05:36<andythenorth>wish minimap remembered last size I opened it :D
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05:40<@Alberth>you do know that you can set the default size of windows?
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05:42<andythenorth>o_O
05:43<andythenorth>units are pixels?
05:44<andythenorth>that's pretty awesome
05:44<andythenorth>super useful
05:46<@Alberth>http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/set_default_size.png
05:46<andythenorth>oh
05:46<andythenorth>that's what that button does :o
05:46<@Alberth>blame frosch for that feature :)
05:47*andythenorth edited the config file :P
05:47<@Alberth>lol
05:47<@Alberth>works too :)
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05:50<andythenorth>favourite new feature for me
05:51<andythenorth>most of my favourite features are UI improvements, not gameplay stuff :P
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06:02*peter1138 ponders playing a game.
06:02<@peter1138>Probably not OpenTTD...
06:03<LordAro>you can play that?
06:04<LordAro>peter1138: KSP is always good fun
06:04*andythenorth plays a lot of Dice Wars
06:04<LordAro>if only my screen didn't freeze every time i played it...
06:04<@peter1138>I only have the demo of KSP.
06:05<andythenorth>I should have turned off rivers in this game
06:05<andythenorth>rivers are misleading
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06:06<LordAro>peter1138: :O shame on you
06:06<LordAro>you just missed a sale as well, i think
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06:09<andythenorth>V453000: I figured out how to have a fun game :)
06:09<andythenorth>use trains
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06:17<andythenorth>ships on rivers have the most stupid routing :)
06:18<andythenorth>how do I enable 90' turns?
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06:19<LordAro>you don't?
06:19<andythenorth>ugh
06:19<andythenorth>ships are borked, I'm deleting this one
06:20<andythenorth>it's too boring to figure this crap out
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06:21<andythenorth>prize for 'most wanted, most discussed, but most useless feature' goes to rivers
06:22<Eddi|zuHause>only if you do it wrong
06:24<V453000>andythenorth discovered this game has trains
06:24<V453000>:D
06:24<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I don't understand how to do it right
06:24<andythenorth>where are the docs?
06:24<andythenorth>all I can find in wiki is this http://wiki.openttd.org/Lively_Rivers
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06:25<andythenorth>I get other results, but nothing useful
06:30<andythenorth>I do have friends who think 'figuring out the bugs in the implementation' makes a good game
06:30<andythenorth>I am not made that way :(
06:31<andythenorth>is 90' turns now a cfg only setting? Or am I just missing it?
06:31<LordAro>andythenorth: might be in expert settings
06:31<@planetmaker>advanced settings in GUI
06:31<LordAro>try searching
06:32<andythenorth>I did already :P
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06:32<@planetmaker>trains section. advanced or expert level
06:32<andythenorth>oh
06:33<andythenorth>so advanced != expert
06:33<andythenorth>and 'all settings types' isn't all
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06:33<andythenorth>thanks :D
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06:35<@planetmaker>you need two times 'all', on each axis once
06:35<andythenorth>why do we forbid 90' turns for ships? Is there some bug related to it?
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06:35<@planetmaker>probably it only looks foolish. Like it does for trains, too
06:39<andythenorth>routing on rivers is pretty borked with 90' forbidden
06:40<Eddi|zuHause>it's even worse with original pathfinder :p
06:42<andythenorth>he
06:42<andythenorth>maybe I should try it :)
06:42<andythenorth>I haven't had much to complain about today
06:45<frosch123>just make sure there is a buoy every 4 turns
06:45<frosch123>:p
06:45<andythenorth>biab
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07:49<Wolf01>hello
07:53<@Alberth>hello Wolf01
07:54<@Alberth>how's Italy today?
07:55<Wolf01>sunny, here
07:56<@Alberth>ha, it's sunny here too
07:56<__ln__>lies, the sun can't be in two countries at the same time
07:57<Taede>how about 3? its sunny here too
07:58<LordAro>sunny in chilly old northern england too
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08:26<Eddi|zuHause>i haven't seen the sun in ages
08:32<LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: try opening the curtains? :p
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08:42<NGC3982>Morning.
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08:47<Stimrol>Hello, I am starting openttd 1.3.3. and it always crashes with three top lines "no protocol specified" anyone know what this could be?
08:49<Stimrol>It works to start a server with autopilot
08:50<@planetmaker>did you build that openttd yourself?
08:50<@planetmaker>what OS do you run and how do you start that openttd?
08:52<Stimrol>no I dl the generic binaries for 64bit, I use ubuntu 13.04
08:53<@planetmaker>and you try to start openttd so you can normally play on your desktop?
08:53<@planetmaker>might be that ubuntu removed support for X-windows
08:53<Stimrol>start it with ./openttd that crashes but I can start the server with ./autopilot.tcl
08:53<@planetmaker>and uses now its own display server
08:53<@planetmaker>just a random guess, though
08:54<Stimrol>no they havent :) (jet)
08:56<Stimrol>I think I know what is wrong. This is my fault. I copied the files to another user because I run a server, but I am guessing that this user doesn't have access to my particular window session
08:56<@planetmaker>^ wanted to suggest that :-)
08:56<Stimrol>I have to log in as to the session as that user.
08:56<@planetmaker>or export your display
08:56<LordAro>planetmaker: iirc, they didn't remove X in 13.04
08:57<@peter1138>Nor 13.10
08:57<@planetmaker>export DISPLAY=localhost:0.0
08:57<@planetmaker>so they decided to not do that. good for them
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08:58<@peter1138>They were never going to remove support for X.
08:59<Stimrol>thanks for the help anyway, always good to word things and then understand them yourself
09:02<@peter1138>Heh, 13.04 was before Mir was even announced...
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09:05<@Alberth>planetmaker: better enable X11 forwarding through ssh
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10:13<LordAro>peter1138: http://www.greenmangaming.com/s/gb/en/pc/games/simulation/kerbal-space-program/ ;)
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11:07*andythenorth wonders
11:07<andythenorth>can I check for 90' being on, from a grf?
11:09<@planetmaker>you can't
11:09<andythenorth>action D can't do it?
11:09<andythenorth>appears not
11:09<@planetmaker>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/TTDPatchFlags <-- doesn't list it
11:10<andythenorth>oh well :(
11:10<@planetmaker>why would a NewGRF care about *path finder* settings?
11:11<andythenorth>I wanted to disable river ships if 90' is turned on
11:11<andythenorth>(disable 90')
11:11<andythenorth>nvm
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11:19<andythenorth>do I need to use transfer orders with cdist?
11:27<@peter1138>90 foot?
11:28<@peter1138>90 minute?
11:30<andythenorth>sharp turns :P
11:33<@peter1138>What does ' have to do with °?
11:34<andythenorth>too lazy to unicode :P
11:34<andythenorth>in what way does "90 apostrophe-thingy" not convey my meaning? :P
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11:43<andythenorth>so how do other people build ship depots on rivers?
11:43<andythenorth>screenie?
11:44<@planetmaker>add a harbour basin from canal tiles
11:44<@peter1138>Hmm, TS 2014 is missing some pretty fundamental sounds
11:44<@peter1138>Like... wheels on the track sounds...
11:48<andythenorth>hmm
11:48<andythenorth>these IH wagons weigh 100t each
11:48<andythenorth>oopsie
11:51<LordAro>http://awescience.com/2013/12/01/beware-chinese-make-the-infinite-hard-drive/
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12:00<andythenorth>hmm
12:00<andythenorth>changing a wagon's weight changes it for already-built instances
12:00<andythenorth>interesting
12:02<andythenorth>frosch123: you did the 'save window size' feature?
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12:23<frosch123>andythenorth: yes, window size and sticky state
12:23<andythenorth>it's really nice
12:23<andythenorth>saves lives
12:25<frosch123>i think it was based on suggestion forum discussion which annoyed me
12:27<frosch123>people getting lost in saving window positions in save games and such, while default size is way easier
12:33<andythenorth>default ftw
12:33<andythenorth>removes a large set of tiny irritations
12:49<andythenorth>hmm
12:49<andythenorth>is it now recommended to use explicit orders for servicing?
12:50<@planetmaker>depends on what you want. But I'd recommend that as you better control where the train goes without network considerations
12:50<@planetmaker>otherwise you need to know the look-ahead length for finding a depot.
12:50<andythenorth>how would I find that out?
12:50<@planetmaker>Or need to place depots *before* branches instead of after
12:51<andythenorth>I used to have success placing a PBS signal 1 tile before depot
12:51<andythenorth>but that no longer seems to work
12:51<@planetmaker>find out what? The look-ahead for depots is iirc around 20 tiles
12:51<andythenorth>I have trains on 70 day servicing that haven't serviced for 2 years
12:51<andythenorth>they drive straight past depots
12:51<@planetmaker>they only look for a depot occasionally
12:54<andythenorth>I don't know how I'd play this game without being in this channel :)
12:54<andythenorth>it's completely baffling without help
12:55<@planetmaker>:-)
12:55<andythenorth>irc-assisted play :P
12:56*andythenorth should be more generous to newly arrived players :(
12:56<andythenorth>I have been playing since 1994 or so, and I'm confused
13:02<andythenorth>oh
13:02<andythenorth>yogscast live near me
13:02<andythenorth>how odd
13:02*andythenorth just discovered that
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13:16<andythenorth>this dock-with-an-entrance-lock isn't so bad https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/5621/dock.png
13:23<andythenorth>hmm
13:23<andythenorth>if I have two steel mills close to each other, and lots of iron and coal mines, is it cheating to deliver to both mills?
13:23<@planetmaker>how is that cheating?
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13:24<@planetmaker>it's more difficult to deliver to both
13:24<andythenorth>I find delivering all to one harder
13:24<andythenorth>more congested stations
13:24<andythenorth>already I'm cheating by using boats
13:24<andythenorth>oh
13:24<andythenorth>GS idea
13:25<andythenorth>for 3 types of industry, achieve a minimum production level at each
13:25<andythenorth>think of it as inverse Silicon Valley
13:25<andythenorth>frosch123: can I tempt you? o_O ^
13:26<andythenorth>(for all instances of the type on the map)
13:28<frosch123>what?
13:28<frosch123>how do you achieve a minimum production level?
13:28<frosch123>win at game start?
13:29<frosch123>[19:02] <andythenorth> yogscast live near me <- what does that mean? yes, they live in britain :p
13:29<frosch123>or did you just meet your neighbours? :p
13:29<andythenorth>frosch123: kind of :)
13:29<andythenorth>I didn't meet yogscast
13:30<andythenorth>anyway - minimum = target
13:30<andythenorth>i.e. achieve x output per month
13:30<frosch123>so, maximum production overall while minimum production per single industry?
13:30<frosch123>maximum distribution?
13:31<andythenorth>could be
13:31<andythenorth>I was thinking something simple like 'every steel mill on the map must produce at least 200t per month'
13:31<andythenorth>or such
13:32<andythenorth>there's some detail about industry closure and other nonsense
13:32<frosch123>maximise the production of the industry with least production?
13:32<frosch123>so, boost one industry, then magic bulldoze other instances? :p
13:33<andythenorth>he he
13:34<andythenorth>ok, so maybe there's an easy win condition
13:34<andythenorth>at least n instances?
13:34<andythenorth>it's basically SV, but distributed
13:34<frosch123>so, sillicon valley, but without the town restriction?
13:34<andythenorth>kind of yes
13:35<andythenorth>easy way to think of it
13:35<Wolf01>[17:51:31] <LordAro> http://awescience.com/2013/12/01/beware-chinese-make-the-infinite-hard-drive/ <- I have a 1000TB PATA hard disk here, at least is how the bios recognizes it, but I can't write or read from it :(
13:35*andythenorth biab
13:35<andythenorth>baby washing time
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13:35<LordAro>Wolf01: :(
13:35<LordAro>wait, 1GB PATA?
13:35<Wolf01>yeah
13:35<LordAro>no
13:36<LordAro>1PB PATA??
13:36<Wolf01>yes that
13:36<Wolf01>I don't recognize the exact model
13:36<Wolf01>*remember
13:36<LordAro>sounds like some sort of overflow error on attempting to read a dead hard drive :L
13:37<Wolf01>for sure, it died some years ago with all my stuff in it
13:37<LordAro>:(
13:37-!-DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd
13:38<Wolf01>but it was spectacular when I showed it to the technician
13:40<frosch123>there used to be times where you could format your floppy drive to have a higher capacity
13:40<frosch123>by reducing overhead data
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26140 trunk/src/lang/turkish.txt (2013-12-01 18:45:09 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>turkish - 41 changes by wakeup
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14:23<@Alberth>o/
14:24<andythenorth>o/
14:24<@Alberth>playing a new game?
14:24<andythenorth>frosch123: are you +1 or -1 to a GS that is basically tied to FIRS (as an idea?)
14:24<andythenorth>Alberth: yup
14:24<andythenorth>I sulked a bit about one game, then started a new one
14:25<frosch123>i don't think i am the typical firs player
14:26<andythenorth>I suggest it only so that production amounts can be tied to a specific known newgrf
14:27<@Alberth>I think it's a valid strategy to target a specific newgrf, you can use knowledge about it to enhance the GS
14:27<@Alberth>Obviously, it's more limited in use though ;)
14:27<andythenorth>[shrug]
14:28<andythenorth>100% of nothing or 50% of something :P
14:28<frosch123>well, if it is about the balancing only
14:28<andythenorth>it's about target production amounts at secondary industries
14:29<andythenorth>a refinement would be excluding certain known industries with special behaviour
14:29<andythenorth>but the basic idea might suck, so refinement can wait
14:30<frosch123>well, you could give the gs some presets "suitable for firs arctic", "suitable for default toyland", ...
14:30<andythenorth>that would be neat
14:30*andythenorth considers compiling a GS using FIRS codebase :P
14:30<andythenorth>so that industry IDs are known
14:30<frosch123>gs have no access to the industry ids
14:31<andythenorth>nvm :)
14:31<frosch123>they use the global ids, newgrf have local ids
14:31<frosch123>but you can detect input/output cargos
14:36<andythenorth>useful
14:37<andythenorth>hmm
14:37<andythenorth>building docks on corner slopes - would need new sprites.... o_O
14:37*andythenorth has all the little ideas that come from playing a game :P
14:37<frosch123>Alberth: should we deploy the current eints state wrt. gs?
14:38<andythenorth>my newgrfs are getting fixed much faster than usual today :P
14:38<frosch123>andythenorth: as long as you do not fall for the V-style of fixing :p
14:38<andythenorth>defined as...? :)
14:38<@Alberth>patch doesn't apply any more
14:39<frosch123>"remove aircraft"
14:39<frosch123>and such
14:39<frosch123>"remove ..."
14:39<andythenorth>I like 'remove'
14:39<andythenorth>fixes bugs :)
14:39<@Alberth>I spend to day on codechanges to make the change of string commands eventually possible
14:40<@Alberth>so now I have to redo the gs patch queue
14:40<@Alberth>which shouldn't be very hard, but will take a few eveninks
14:42<frosch123>oh, gs-awards actually uses {CHECKMARK} and {CROSS}:s
14:42<frosch123>and even {RIGHT_ARROW} :s
14:43<@Alberth>:p
14:44<@Alberth>strgen needs to be fixed :p
14:44<frosch123>looks like, from the gs on devzone, gs-awards has the most variety of string commands
14:59<andythenorth>hmm
14:59<andythenorth>autorefit is borked
15:00<andythenorth>identical wagons in a consist
15:00<andythenorth>1 is refitting as ordered, the other is ignoring the order
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15:10<andythenorth>the way CHIPS tiles flicker between cargos is quite amusing :P
15:10<andythenorth>could stations cascade waiting cargos in some sensible way to their tiles?
15:11<andythenorth>in groups of 4 or such, from N tile?
15:11<andythenorth>or dividing tiles between waiting cargos?
15:14<frosch123>i thought eddi wanted to code that stations display cargo accoding to throughput, not waiting cargo
15:15<frosch123>maybe the easiest way out is to include the cargo of waiting trains into the station display
15:16<frosch123>so cargo only vanishes when the train leaves
15:16<andythenorth>hmm
15:17<andythenorth>I like the indication that there is lots of stuff waiting
15:17<andythenorth>it's just funny when the thresholds cross :)
15:17<andythenorth>so 600t of steel is surpassed by 601t of goods
15:17<andythenorth>and entire station changes :)
15:17<frosch123>well, you would still see when cargo is waiting
15:18<frosch123>but you would not have the flickering when a train in waiting for full load
15:18<frosch123>but, ok, with firs 100% cheat you have no waiting trains
15:18<andythenorth>I don't use that 100% :)
15:18<andythenorth>it's silly
15:18<frosch123>it's the V method
15:18<frosch123>remove everything :)
15:19<frosch123>ships, aircraft, breakdowns, station rating :p
15:19<andythenorth>actually...
15:20<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/5622/station_cargo.png
15:20<andythenorth>that's interesting
15:21<andythenorth>do stations show the cargo with lowest ID or something?
15:21<andythenorth>or latest delivered to station?
15:22<andythenorth>yeah, so if any steel is waiting, that station shows steel
15:22<frosch123>https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action2/Stations#numlittlesets.2C_numlotssets
15:22<andythenorth>yeah, reading that now :)
15:22<frosch123>ignore the "12" and the "4095" :p
15:23<andythenorth>so it depends on labels in an action 3?
15:23*andythenorth reads CHIPS code
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15:45<andythenorth>oopsie
15:45<andythenorth>1.95m litres of alcohol waiting
15:46<@peter1138>Drink it.
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16:01<andythenorth>hmm
16:02<andythenorth>is there a horrible hack to offer constructing trams without catenary?
16:05<andythenorth>also
16:05<andythenorth>how do I teach cdist to re-route?
16:05<andythenorth>it's sending 98% of cargo via one tram route
16:05<andythenorth>with single 75t vehicle
16:05<andythenorth>instead of via 4 x 300t train
16:06<@planetmaker>it will adopt to new routes. But the lead time might be larger than you expect
16:06<@planetmaker>Adoption to capacity in other links takes time
16:06<andythenorth>it's been about 3 game years so far
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16:06<@planetmaker>should be long enough
16:06<andythenorth>the trains are not using full load
16:06<andythenorth>the tram is
16:07<andythenorth>does that matter for cdist?
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16:11<@Alberth>old assigned cargo won't change route, I think
16:11<@Alberth>cdist looks at the load of the line, look at the colour of the connections at the link grapgh
16:12<@Alberth>good night
16:13<andythenorth>night Alberth
16:13<@planetmaker>g'night, Alberth
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16:35<frosch123>night
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16:52<andythenorth>cdist !love engineering supplies etc
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17:31<Wolf01>'night all
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18:39<Killer11>Good evening
18:39<Killer11>I have succeeded in my NML quest
18:39<Killer11>I've got my articulated engines up and running and it is simply delightful
18:40<Killer11>NML is just so easy to learn, so much more readable than nfo hex, Maybe this summer i'
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18:40<Killer11>ll go on and experiment with 32 bit graphics
18:42<Killer11>for now the headache is actually sorting out the actual specific differences between the 2M62's that Lithuanian Railways are running
18:42<Killer11>between UM, M and K other than those things have caterpillar/some new russian engines in them i have 0 clue of their actual stats
18:44<Killer11>i did learn that a thing called M62 KEOS actually exists tho http://trainspo.com/photo/42738/?list=class aparently it's fitted with a bunch of things needed to make it fit a passenger train locomotive role
18:45<Eddi|zuHause>Killer11: have you seen the xUSSR set yet?
18:45-!-DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@50.107.53.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:46<Killer11>seen it a number of times actually
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>so what's that missing that would be lithuania-specific?
18:47<Killer11>all of the m62 mods that happened in the past 6 years or so
18:47<Killer11>also the siemens euroruners
18:47<Killer11>chech doubledeckers
18:47<Killer11>and more
18:48<Killer11>And with the whole Railbaltica thing i'll have a justification to make this set double gauge
18:48<Eddi|zuHause>Killer11: sometimes engine stats are just too similar
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18:49<Eddi|zuHause>i got most of my engine stats from wikipedia
18:49<Eddi|zuHause>but seemingly that is more complete for germany than other countries
18:49<Killer11>That's why i left a question at a local forum where even some people that drive those thingsa frequent
18:50<Killer11>in a day or two i should get my answer on that whole thing, at the very least the operating costs should be different and i wouldn't be surprised if CAT engines are a bit beefier
18:51<Killer11>they are afterall much more modern
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18:54<Eddi|zuHause>"more modern" nowadays mostly means "more environmentally friendly" instead of "more powerful"
18:55<Eddi|zuHause>which usually comes along with less fuel usage, but at the cost of more expensive electronics
18:55<Killer11>true
18:56<Killer11>the xussr set idea of longer vehicles seems interesting but also extremely complicated to me
18:57<Killer11>how far into development is that feature of the set?
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19:00<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know if they used that, but i wrote a concept here: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=53511
19:00<Eddi|zuHause>CETS is based on that
19:00<Eddi|zuHause>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets
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19:06<Killer11>I played arround with it and I just don't think OpenTTD is ready for this scale, it has the same problem that LongVehicles has
19:06<Killer11>all looks fine until vehicles go trough tunnels/bridges/etc
19:07<Killer11>then glitches appear because of the engien limitations and it just looks distracting
19:08<Killer11>also if you redraw trains at that scale they become gigantic in comparison to everything else, i guess it's just a matter of taste and I preffer the TTD distorted scale
19:08<Killer11>the game was just built for it
19:14<Killer11>I wonder if that set will ever include TEM-TMH or TEM-LTH from what i can tell those version of the TEM shunter were an exclusive Lithuanian order but damn do they look pretty
19:16<Killer11>http://trainspo.com/photo/45007/?list=class http://trainspo.com/photo/43645/?list=class respectively
19:21<Eddi|zuHause>Killer11: my concept definetely solves the tunnel/bridge problem
19:22<Killer11>they don't seem to use it in the set tho, or at least haven't implemented it yet
19:22<Eddi|zuHause>Killer11: try out CETS
19:22<Eddi|zuHause>it's fully playable, even though the graphics are mostly "missing"
19:23<Killer11>thanks, will do
19:23<Eddi|zuHause>use the prussian vehicles from ~1880-1920 for best effects :)
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---Logclosed Mon Dec 02 00:00:59 2013