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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-12-05

---Logopened Thu Dec 05 00:00:04 2013
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06:13<zydeco>greetings, comrades
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06:59<Eddi|zuHause>man this game is hopeless, i'm spending all my ressources defending, get stuck and fall behind in research, run out of tax money...
07:04<V453000>clearly insufficient production and consumption of beer
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07:48<MNIM>Hmmmh. my population will soon reach 100 million in freeciv.
07:48<NGC3982>My god. I love Civilization.
07:48<NGC3982>But i'm engaged, so i can't play more than an hour or so a day.
07:48<NGC3982>That means no-no for Civ. :|
07:49<MNIM>my current game takes an hour or so.
07:49<MNIM>...per turn
07:49<NGC3982>Exactly. :(
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07:50<MNIM>it's my own fault, though
07:51<MNIM>it's a huge map
07:55<MNIM>I currently have 89 cities. :/
07:58<MNIM>281 units.
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08:10<NGC3982>I love trams.
08:11<MNIM>but do you like trains?
08:13<NGC3982>Of course i do.
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10:30<FrenkyPohodar>I wish you a nice day.
10:33<FrenkyPohodar>Do you know where you can get the first boat? Now I'm the first in 1800, is a little earlier? a train pulled by a horse, I can not find one, too. Thanks very much for your advice and help.
10:34<Pinkbeast>FrenkyPohodar: What newgrfs do you have loaded?
10:38<FrenkyPohodar>No, I can not find newgrf, I found the ship (since 1700) but no train pulled by horses (some older ships are not covered year 1700)
10:38<Eddi|zuHause>FrenkyPohodar: in eGRVTS you have horses as road vehicles
10:41<FrenkyPohodar>yeah got it, but somewhere I once saw the train pulling the horse before the onset UKRS 2 (1830)
10:41<Pinkbeast>FrenkyPohodar: That was not in UKRS2. You can load multiple vehicle newgrfs.
10:41<Pinkbeast>"Sailing Ships" has some very old ships
10:44<Eddi|zuHause>FrenkyPohodar: the grf may have been called "early rail" or similar
10:46<FrenkyPohodar>ha I got it from a site "Before the year 1700 comes Early Rail and also UKRS Add-on (1500 start)" it will probably ono.Ted's what I found, thank you very much. :-)
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13:15<@Alberth>there seems to be a little problem with {RAW_STRING} versus {STRING} used in translations. According to the strgen tables, the former does not have cases, while the latter does support them
13:15<@Alberth>hi frosch
13:15<@Alberth>for GS this is not a real problem, as it doesn't have cases anyway
13:17<frosch123>and yes, RAW_STRING does not support cases
13:18<@Alberth>do you know what WT does with this situation?
13:18<@Alberth>does it recognize STRING as being translated from RAW_STRING, and thus disallow a case?
13:19<frosch123>only the source can tell :)
13:20<@Alberth>ok :)
13:22<@Alberth>I updated the patch queue for gs support, the translation of commands is not included yet
13:22<@Alberth>I can throw the stuff I have in trunk if you like
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13:28<frosch123>it looks to me like wt3 would accept cases for any string command
13:28<frosch123>also {BLUE}
13:28<@planetmaker>hm :D
13:29<frosch123>maybe we can just try it then :p
13:30<LordAro>so, when is eints replacing wt3? ;p
13:30<frosch123>when you port the master server to psql
13:30<LordAro>what does it use currently?
13:31<frosch123>like everything old :p
13:32<Eddi|zuHause>(i don't even know what that does)
13:32<LordAro>frosch123: doesn't seem too difficult ;)
13:32<frosch123>linux, apache, mysql, php,... all the 90's :p
13:33<@planetmaker>LordAro, that doesn't convert tha application(s) using the DB
13:34<LordAro>true ;)
13:34<@planetmaker>which is here the actual task at hand :)
13:34<frosch123>i refactored the msu to use a common sql interface
13:34<frosch123>then learnt how non-standard mysql actually is, so all those weird scripts don't work
13:35<frosch123>so, it ends up in a rewrite or so
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13:36<+glx>frosch123: like every "simple" conversion ;)
13:37<+glx>and I guess the original code is full of direct access to DB
13:42<@Belugas>and ello
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26144 trunk/src/lang/slovak.txt (2013-12-05 18:45:11 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>slovak - 1 changes by Tinix
13:51<frosch123>Alberth: the patch queue on devs is still the old one
13:55<@Alberth>frosch123: updated, 100 is a first step towards translation string creation
13:55<@Alberth>it needs more work
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14:16<andythenorth>hi hi
14:17<frosch123>Alberth: looks fine, i think we just put it into production :)
14:17<frosch123>do you push?
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14:19<@Alberth>frosch123: pushed
14:19<frosch123>oh, eints is actually offline
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14:20<@Alberth>except 100, but that code is not being used currently anyway
14:20<frosch123>hmm, yeah, i killed it yesterday when experimenting with the issue reporter
14:20<andythenorth>I noticed earlier today, but wasn't in the channel, sorry :(
14:20<frosch123>but did not restart it :p
14:20<@Alberth>a whole day without translations :p
14:22<andythenorth>pingdom it :P
14:22<@Alberth>andythenorth: what do you think of #6611 ?
14:23<andythenorth>makes sense
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14:24<andythenorth>I can't remember the current view
14:24<andythenorth>might be that the current situation needs improved, rather than a new view
14:25<@Alberth>overview page of a language is not very useful atm
14:25<andythenorth>when it's back online I'll look :)
14:26<@planetmaker>this made my day:
14:26<andythenorth>planetmaker: you should see our compatibility requirements :(
14:27<andythenorth>we just dropped IE6
14:27<andythenorth>we've delivered training in 'training suites' with IE 5, within the last couple of years :(
14:27<@Alberth>andythenorth: fire the boss
14:28<andythenorth>Alberth: yeah, that view has a few reports against it
14:28<andythenorth>it basically sucks :)
14:28<andythenorth>would make much more sense as table, or two columns some other way
14:28<@Alberth>planetmaker: the course is about learning linux, you first need to complete the course before you can drive linux safely :)
14:30<@Alberth>two columns would be nice, imho
14:30<@planetmaker>george's report makes sense to me, yes
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15:22<andythenorth>so....manual cargodist
15:23<andythenorth>where are packets assigned destinations?
15:23<andythenorth>at originating industry / house?
15:23<andythenorth>or at first station they are delivered to?
15:24<@Alberth>afaik manual cdist means "disable cdist", ie "old behaviour"
15:24*Alberth votes for "first station they are delivered to"
15:25<andythenorth>does the code accept voting? :)
15:26<andythenorth>presumably this is already defined somewhere o_O
15:26<@Alberth>code is not democratic :p
15:27<andythenorth>one code one vote
15:28<@Alberth>I fear we'd be outnumbered by code then :)
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15:51<andythenorth>ugh this mac is slow :(
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16:23<andythenorth>so the rule that train grfs shouldn't contain their railtypes - reasons are...?
16:24<@planetmaker>reason is: why should they? Makes it a nightmare also to combine sets
16:24<@planetmaker>other reason: why would you need when you can use a RTT easily?
16:25<@planetmaker>it's no additional effort in the vehicle set
16:25<andythenorth>(not having tried it yet)
16:25<andythenorth>seems akin to providing industry set and cargos separately
16:26<@planetmaker>better make one set which provides everything, houses, industries, vehicles, cargos, terrain
16:27<andythenorth>I guess I just find it weird
16:27<andythenorth>some vehicles won't appear unless player hunts down precisely the right accompanying grf
16:27<@planetmaker>so you ask a vehicle manufacturer to also provide the roads or tracks?
16:28<@planetmaker>andythenorth, not true. Just set the right cascade on railtypes
16:28<andythenorth>doesn't make any senes
16:28<andythenorth>sense *
16:28<andythenorth>in case of narrow gauge for example
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16:28<andythenorth>or metro
16:28<@planetmaker>cascade everything down to one of RAIL, ELRL, MONO and MGLV
16:28<andythenorth>nah, I'd just disable those vehicles instead
16:28<@planetmaker>NG perfectly cascades down to RAIL
16:28<andythenorth>they're meaningless for gameplay in that case
16:28<andythenorth>better to remove them
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16:29<andythenorth>* this is just theory right now, I haven't tried it :)
16:29<andythenorth>trying to figure out where to start
16:29<andythenorth>I guess I start by finding grfs that contain ng rails
16:30<andythenorth>is there any way to find that out?
16:31<andythenorth>maybe that strange wiki page?
16:31<@planetmaker>maybe, dunno really :)
16:32<andythenorth>found some
16:32<andythenorth>oh not a railtype grf :(
16:32<andythenorth>banananas has one
16:32<andythenorth>maybe bananas should allow deps
16:45<andythenorth>I am reading
16:45<andythenorth>but so far I don't understand :)
16:45<@planetmaker>andythenorth, bananas *does* allow deps. Just use musa to set them
16:46<@planetmaker> <-- read that rather, andythenorth ;)
16:46<@planetmaker>same author, better place maybe
16:47<andythenorth>setting axle weights?
16:47<andythenorth>per vehicle?
16:50<andythenorth>I think I prefer this page :)
16:50<andythenorth>much simpler
16:50<@planetmaker>that's as chaoitic as cargo labels. No scheme, just everyone's own design
16:50<@planetmaker>and you then finally need to support zillions of different shit
16:51<andythenorth>I don't have a problem with cargo labels, they're easy :)
16:51<@planetmaker>and different vehicle sets interpreting the labels differently. while foobar's scheme is quite clear...
16:52<andythenorth>ok I'll try reading it again another time
16:52<@planetmaker>yeah... cargo labels. FRUT. FRUI, FRVG; STEL, METL, SCRP, COPR, ...
16:52<andythenorth>doesn't matter, they're all supportable :)
16:52<@planetmaker>but there it makes more sense than the different RTL which cover the same
16:54<andythenorth>that scheme should have reserved a character for "I just don't care about this parameter"
16:54<andythenorth>seems to have done that for speed
16:56*andythenorth wonders where metro is handled
16:58<andythenorth>hmm ok, I concede, it's a raging mess
16:58<andythenorth>I just realised the metro 'support' I added a few weeks ago is pretty incomplete
16:58<andythenorth>it needs to cascade through a load more shit to handle railtype grfs I didn't consider (nor care about) :P
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16:59<andythenorth>I also have zero idea how (for example) nutracks cascades types internally
16:59<andythenorth>maybe it will look better in the morning :)
17:00<@planetmaker>I doubt it will
17:00<andythenorth>you can see why people might think "ok I'll just make my own tracks"
17:00<andythenorth>even if separate grf :P
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17:00<@planetmaker> ?
17:01*andythenorth guesses
17:01<andythenorth>yeah that always comes up for railtypes :)
17:01<@planetmaker>good guess :P
17:01<andythenorth>had this discussion before :)
17:01<andythenorth>planetmaker: so if *you* were doing narrow gauge trains, what would you set?
17:02<andythenorth>NGRL, NAAN, some other crap?
17:02<andythenorth>there's nothing complicated like a specific gauge, or two types of NG
17:02<andythenorth>maybe there's electrified in future, maybe
17:02<andythenorth>but it won't care about 25Kv, AC, DC, 3rd rail, 4th rail, etc
17:03<andythenorth>oh, and if there's no suitable track, the trains shouldn't appear ;)
17:03<@planetmaker>it doesn't appear automatically, if none of the tracks is available
17:04<andythenorth>so just don't fallback to RAIL or ELRL
17:04<@planetmaker>let's see what I'd do...
17:06<@peter1138>Just don't overcomplicate this shit
17:08<andythenorth>trying :)
17:08<andythenorth>once upon a time it was simple
17:08<andythenorth>someone made a ng rails grf
17:08<andythenorth>then there was a big argument with OzTrans about some crap
17:09<andythenorth>and life was simple :)
17:09*DanMacK had a similar argument with OzTRans
17:09<andythenorth>I remember trying to track down that damn grf to play canset
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17:11<@planetmaker>leave out everything up to NLOW for electrified
17:11<andythenorth>I mean, I see the point of this :)
17:11<andythenorth>but it's also a little mad
17:12<andythenorth>it's just a train game :)
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17:14<DanMacK>He's a bit controlling
17:14<andythenorth>he does ship stuff though
17:15<andythenorth>can't fault that :P
17:15<andythenorth>planetmaker: I saved your list to a ticket, thanks
17:17<DanMacK>although I've been threatened him a few times to pull my graphics from CanRail
17:18*andythenorth time for bed
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17:19<@planetmaker>DanMacK, I was still hoping for your canadian train graphics to appear in the set we started...
17:20<DanMacK>I just hjave so much going on lately... lol
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17:29<Wolf01>'night all
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17:48<FrenkyPohodar>I wish you a nice evening. You do not know how to start the server (dedicated) to apply the modified settings? (openttd.conf) :-) I set very little boat, so I edited it, but now how to load the new settings, probably something in cmd?
17:49<@planetmaker>uh, what?
17:49<@planetmaker>while openttd is running, modifications to openttd.cfg are pointless
17:49<@planetmaker>they will get overwritten when openttd exits
17:50<@planetmaker>to change settings on a running game on a server, you need to use rcon
17:50<@planetmaker>rcon password "set settingname value"
17:52<FrenkyPohodar>Few ships, so I manually changed the settings in openttd.conf but the game does not know about the change.
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17:53<@planetmaker>rcon password "set max_ships value"
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17:54<@planetmaker>editing openttd.cfg never affects a savegame or running openttd
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17:57<FrenkyPohodar>so again I can do something new, thank you. :-)
17:57<@planetmaker>you're welcome
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20:03<Hazzard>TTD tiles are 64 by 32, right?
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22:39<Supercheese>Someone's gone and done it, a nighttime base set
22:46<Supercheese>my thoughts exactly
22:47<Supercheese>seemingly not on B&N&N&S yet
22:49<Hazzard>The signal lights look really nice. The lights on the windows would light up the buildings themselves slightly, but that detail would take forever to add
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---Logclosed Fri Dec 06 00:00:08 2013