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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-12-13

---Logopened Fri Dec 13 00:00:30 2013
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09:24<krinn>hi guys
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09:24<krinn>bot have seen function ? (seeking zuu)
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09:25<__ln__>@seen zuu
09:25<@DorpsGek>__ln__: zuu was last seen in #openttd 19 hours, 6 minutes, and 42 seconds ago: <Zuu> Hello
09:25<krinn>thanks __ln__
09:25<__ln__>@seen Bjarni
09:25<@DorpsGek>__ln__: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 2 years, 9 weeks, 5 days, 14 hours, 6 minutes, and 32 seconds ago: <Bjarni> heh
09:25*krinn sit and wait
09:26<@peter1138>@seen tron
09:26<@DorpsGek>peter1138: I have not seen tron.
09:26<__ln__>@seen Darkvater
09:26<@DorpsGek>__ln__: Darkvater was last seen in #openttd 3 years, 34 weeks, 5 days, 2 hours, 48 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <Darkvater> good ol' days :)
09:27<krinn>i wonder age of DorpsGek
09:28<@peter1138>@seen dorpsgek
09:28<@DorpsGek>peter1138: I have not seen dorpsgek.
09:29<Sacro>@seen Dalestan
09:29<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Dalestan was last seen in #openttd 3 years, 38 weeks, 1 day, 21 hours, 49 minutes, and 16 seconds ago: <DaleStan> <PeterT> Why would one have info version 5 instead of info version 7? <-- because you didn't use any Info version 6 or 7 features, and there was no header telling NFORenum to use any particular version.
09:29<Sacro>do I win?
09:29<__ln__>@seen dominik81
09:29<@DorpsGek>__ln__: I have not seen dominik81.
09:29<Sacro>3y38w to beat...
09:29<@peter1138>@seen hackykid
09:29<@DorpsGek>peter1138: hackykid was last seen in #openttd 3 years, 40 weeks, 6 days, 5 hours, 9 minutes, and 25 seconds ago: <Hackykid> hi peter1138
09:30<Sacro>@seen KUDr
09:30<@DorpsGek>Sacro: I have not seen KUDr.
09:30<Sacro>@seen Tron
09:30<@DorpsGek>Sacro: I have not seen Tron.
09:30<@peter1138>@seen brianetta
09:30<@DorpsGek>peter1138: brianetta was last seen in #openttd 2 years, 2 weeks, 2 days, 4 hours, 19 minutes, and 23 seconds ago: * Brianetta knows a Peter Nelson IRL
09:31<@peter1138>also about me :S
09:31<Sacro>what happened to him?
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09:31<Sacro>@seen richk
09:31<@DorpsGek>Sacro: I have not seen richk.
09:32<Sacro>@seen richk87
09:32<@DorpsGek>Sacro: I have not seen richk87.
09:32<Sacro>@seen richk*
09:32<@DorpsGek>Sacro: I haven't seen anyone matching richk*.
09:32<@peter1138>@seen richk67
09:32<@DorpsGek>peter1138: I have not seen richk67.
09:32<@peter1138>@seen patchman
09:32<@DorpsGek>peter1138: I have not seen patchman.
09:32<Sacro>@seen Singaporekid
09:32<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Singaporekid was last seen in #openttd 3 years, 37 weeks, 0 days, 18 hours, 44 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <Singaporekid> I would play with that grf
09:33<Sacro>It's strange how many people left so close
09:33<@peter1138>@seen benjamingoodger
09:33<@DorpsGek>peter1138: I have not seen benjamingoodger.
09:33<Sacro>he's Goodger these days
09:33<krinn>@seen xopek
09:33<@DorpsGek>krinn: I have not seen xopek.
09:34<Sacro>and I can see him online now
09:34<Sacro>@seen Krinn
09:34<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Krinn was last seen in #openttd 19 seconds ago: <krinn> @seen xopek
09:34<Sacro>@seen lws1984
09:34<@DorpsGek>Sacro: I have not seen lws1984.
09:34<@peter1138>@seen gonewacko
09:34<@DorpsGek>peter1138: gonewacko was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 45 weeks, 1 day, 16 hours, 13 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <GoneWacko> now that's just not very nice
09:34<krinn>@seen Noldo
09:34<@DorpsGek>krinn: Noldo was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 2 weeks, 1 day, 4 hours, 43 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <Noldo> but isn't it kind of the feature of a bridge to let them pass
09:35<Sacro>@seen Skiddles
09:35<@DorpsGek>Sacro: I have not seen Skiddles.
09:35<@peter1138>@seen yorick
09:35<@DorpsGek>peter1138: yorick was last seen in #openttd 6 weeks, 2 days, 18 hours, 26 minutes, and 41 seconds ago: <yorick> "to unlock more than 100 trains, press the donate link below!"
09:35<Sacro>@seen DarkSSH
09:35<@DorpsGek>Sacro: I have not seen DarkSSH.
09:35<krinn>@seen mirQus
09:35<@DorpsGek>krinn: mirQus was last seen in #openttd 3 years, 46 weeks, 4 days, 15 hours, 2 minutes, and 59 seconds ago: <mirQus> And in C++ you should compare/initialize pointers with 0. But I think it's goot do differentate integer 0 and empty pointer, so #define NULL 0 is a good thing in my book. ;)
09:35<@peter1138>@seen gekz
09:35<@DorpsGek>peter1138: I have not seen gekz.
09:35<krinn>ahah i lead no ?
09:35<Sacro>now that's a name I don't recognise
09:35<krinn>lol cheating ->
09:35<Sacro>krinn: indeed
09:35<Sacro> :P
09:36<Sacro>@seen Eddi|zuHause
09:36<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Eddi|zuHause was last seen in #openttd 18 hours, 9 minutes, and 6 seconds ago: <Eddi|zuHause> so apparently you need one around every 100 years :)
09:36<Sacro>he never leaves
09:36<Eddi|zuHause>that is a very old URL :p
09:36<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: Yes, it's in my memory
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09:37<@peter1138>@seen joepie91
09:37<@DorpsGek>peter1138: I have not seen joepie91.
09:37<@peter1138>@seen zr40
09:37<@DorpsGek>peter1138: I have not seen zr40.
09:37<Sacro>@seen petern
09:37<@DorpsGek>Sacro: petern was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 34 weeks, 0 days, 21 hours, 51 minutes, and 19 seconds ago: <petern> I wonder if there's such a thing as a decent android port...
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09:38<Virtual->I saw a Wii port for OpenTTD
09:38<@peter1138>@seen shadow-xiii
09:38<@DorpsGek>peter1138: shadow-xiii was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 0 weeks, 0 days, 0 hours, 22 minutes, and 21 seconds ago: <SHADOW-XIII> had to use google, found it at
09:38<Virtual->Didn't know there was one
09:38<@peter1138>@seen pavel1269
09:38<@DorpsGek>peter1138: I have not seen pavel1269.
09:38<Sacro>@seen ludde
09:38<Eddi|zuHause>you missed it by 22 minutes!
09:38<@DorpsGek>Sacro: ludde was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 22 weeks, 1 day, 7 hours, 35 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: <ludde> hej
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09:39<Eddi|zuHause>@seen *xavius
09:39<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: I haven't seen anyone matching *xavius.
09:39<Eddi|zuHause>@seen *x*
09:39<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: *x* could be glx (18 hours, 15 minutes, and 41 seconds ago), Xaroth|Work (22 hours, 38 minutes, and 4 seconds ago), apiecux (5 weeks, 1 day, 18 hours, 53 minutes, and 28 seconds ago), nex259 (5 weeks, 2 days, 1 hour, 49 minutes, and 6 seconds ago), ZxBiohazardZx (7 weeks, 1 day, 18 hours, 54 minutes, and 38 seconds ago), XaTriX (8 weeks, 4 days, 4 hours, 7 minutes, and 7 seconds ago), xaver (9 (37 more messages)
09:39<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: weeks, 5 days, 17 hours, 38 minutes, and 34 seconds ago), Malinux- (10 weeks, 0 days, 1 hour, 28 minutes, and 46 seconds ago), Caseus_Maximus (10 weeks, 2 days, 16 hours, 15 minutes, and 43 seconds ago), Xaroth (17 weeks, 1 day, 2 hours, 22 minutes, and 48 seconds ago), XeryusTC (19 weeks, 3 days, 21 hours, 14 minutes, and 10 seconds ago), xDraKx (19 weeks, 6 days, 21 hours, 17 minutes, and 35 (36 more messages)
09:39-!-DarkAceZ [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
09:40<Eddi|zuHause>loots of useless highlights :p
09:40<krinn>must win with XaTriX
09:41<krinn>well forget weeks aren't years :)
09:41<Eddi|zuHause>well those would be at the end of @more :p
09:41<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: seconds ago), APTX (28 weeks, 4 days, 17 hours, 1 minute, and 39 seconds ago), LunaVorax (28 weeks, 5 days, 15 hours, 18 minutes, and 0 seconds ago), BxTs (29 weeks, 1 day, 0 hours, 6 minutes, and 57 seconds ago), ardex (29 weeks, 5 days, 13 hours, 2 minutes, and 30 seconds ago), xata (32 weeks, 1 day, 21 hours, 46 minutes, and 17 seconds ago), TheBix (32 weeks, 4 days, 4 hours, 8 minutes, and (35 more messages)
09:42<Eddi|zuHause>never heard those names...
09:42<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 8 seconds ago), APTX_ (32 weeks, 5 days, 21 hours, 43 minutes, and 43 seconds ago), Muxy (32 weeks, 6 days, 16 hours, 36 minutes, and 38 seconds ago), ashleyx42 (34 weeks, 0 days, 16 hours, 37 minutes, and 51 seconds ago), ntx (34 weeks, 4 days, 20 hours, 23 minutes, and 59 seconds ago), XziDesk (36 weeks, 5 days, 13 hours, 55 minutes, and 49 seconds ago), rainbowtux (37 weeks, 5 days, 23 (34 more messages)
09:43<Eddi|zuHause>what happened to Muxy anyway? he went away with Luukland?
09:43<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, gtg
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10:01<Sacro>fuck, someone has done most of the UK in simutrans with realistic looking trains
10:01<Sacro>I wonder if they could be newgrf'd
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10:13<@Rubidium>@seen knome
10:13<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: knome was last seen in #openttd 3 years, 37 weeks, 1 day, 7 hours, 9 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: <knome> is the direct link to the section. i'll leave the updating for somebody else
10:14<@Rubidium>hmm... Tron wasn't seen?
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10:21<@Rubidium>@seen beriuc
10:21<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: I have not seen beriuc.
10:21<@Rubidium>@seen beruic
10:21<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: beruic was last seen in #openttd 3 years, 48 weeks, 0 days, 18 hours, 55 minutes, and 18 seconds ago: <beruic> Belugas: Did you mean the General Transport Tycoon or General OpenTTD?
10:22<@Rubidium>you won't find anything older than that; that's as far as the bot's database goes
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10:39<@peter1138>Well that's just cheating.
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10:44<Sacro>@seen dragonhorseboy
10:44<@DorpsGek>Sacro: dragonhorseboy was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 41 weeks, 3 days, 17 hours, 38 minutes, and 57 seconds ago: <dragonhorseboy> going for now..have fun :p
10:44<Sacro>for now!?
10:45<__ln__>@seen Yexo
10:45<@DorpsGek>__ln__: Yexo was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 1 week, 6 days, 2 hours, 28 minutes, and 49 seconds ago: <Yexo> <NGC3982> The station glitches are CHIPS related. I adressed it to Andy the other day, and it seems like it's b0rked in some way. <- it's still in the issue tracker for CHIPS, but I haven't had time to look at it yet
10:46<__ln__>he might win the idling competition
10:46<krinn>he's really idle since a year ?
10:47<Sacro>he might be dead
10:48<LordAro>iirc, pm said he was active in other places (facebook?)
10:48<MNIM>LordAro: real life. *gasp*
10:48<LordAro>what even is that?
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10:51<krinn>really none have news about him ?
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11:50<APTX>Eddi|zuHause: what's with the pointless highlights
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12:20<@peter1138>What's with the idling and never talking and then complaining when your nick is mentioned twice by a bot...
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12:24<Sacro>peter1138: no idea
12:24<Sacro>We could troll other devs
12:24<Sacro>@seen blathijs
12:24<@DorpsGek>Sacro: blathijs was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 4 days, 8 hours, 16 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <blathijs> djgummikuh: How did you update the server? Did you restart it?
12:24<Sacro>@seen Belugas
12:24<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Belugas was last seen in #openttd 3 days, 2 hours, 49 minutes, and 4 seconds ago: <Belugas> hello
12:24*Sacro prepares for kicking
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12:25<Sacro>@seen lolman
12:25<@DorpsGek>Sacro: I have not seen lolman.
12:25<Sacro>@seen JohnUK89
12:25<@DorpsGek>Sacro: I have not seen JohnUK89.
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12:40<LordAro>@seen peter1138
12:40<@DorpsGek>LordAro: peter1138 was last seen in #openttd 1 minute and 23 seconds ago: <peter1138> hmm
12:41-!-Arr`Gone is now known as Arrgh
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12:55<__ln__>@seen MiHaMiX
12:55<@DorpsGek>__ln__: I have not seen MiHaMiX.
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13:47<@Belugas>im there sacrp, don;t worry ;)
13:47<@Belugas>oops. Sacro..
13:47<@Belugas>hello all
13:47<Taede>good evening
13:48<@Belugas>evening.. i wish...
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14:18<andythenorth>so if there was a callback on construction actions
14:18<andythenorth>something could sit and watch that
14:18<andythenorth>then plant objects
14:19<@peter1138>Put it in an ini file.
14:19-!-flaa [~flaa@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:20<andythenorth>I was looking at those objecty things
14:20<andythenorth>around airports
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14:26<Wolf01>hello o/
14:46-!-Arrgh is now known as Arr`Gone
14:51<andythenorth>so who knows about track sets?
14:51<andythenorth>I need one with narrow gauge in
14:51<andythenorth>has to be compatible with Metro Track Set 2.1.0
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14:55<andythenorth>well what we have here is the cathedral
14:55<andythenorth>and the biizarre
14:55<andythenorth>too many is
14:56<@peter1138>What does Eric Raymond have to do with it?
14:58<andythenorth>there are many market stalls to buy your railtypes from
14:59<@Rubidium>andythenorth: railpro?
15:00*andythenorth is now reading a magazine about the rail industry
15:00<andythenorth>that's where google gets you :P
15:02<@Rubidium>andythenorth: the railtypes railpro can deliver to you:
15:02*andythenorth likes
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15:03<@Rubidium>andythenorth: their market:
15:04<andythenorth>could put that in FIRS
15:04<andythenorth>new cargo
15:06<frosch123>andythenorth: do you still need to know which articulated part a vehicle is?
15:07<frosch123>position within articulated vehicle
15:08<andythenorth>solved it compile side ;)
15:08-!-roadt [~roadt@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:09<andythenorth>do you have a new feature? o_O
15:09<frosch123>20k vehicles?
15:09<frosch123> <- thought abuot that one
15:10<andythenorth>I think with that, I could probably cut down ID use, and do a *lot* of cb36
15:11<andythenorth>although currently that's a non-problem :)
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15:11<andythenorth>each articulated conist could just use 2 IDs
15:14<andythenorth>would probably end up with fewer switches
15:14<andythenorth>fewer property blocks
15:14<andythenorth>faster compile maybe
15:14<andythenorth>all significant props are on lead part anyway, so they don't matter
15:14<frosch123>same articulated id for all vehicles? :p
15:15<andythenorth>nah, that ends up being a headache
15:15<andythenorth>I'd have to keep checking lead ID
15:15<andythenorth>there would be some monster switch chain :D
15:15<andythenorth>frosch123: if that's a viable spec extension, I'm sold
15:16<andythenorth>I could see if it's a better way to code this set
15:16<andythenorth>better to recode (again) now than when the set is 10x bigger :P
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15:18<andythenorth>4th time is the charm
15:19<andythenorth>4 recodes on an unreleased set :)
15:21<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26157 /trunk/src (newgrf_engine.cpp vehicle_base.h) (2013-12-13 20:21:04 UTC)
15:21<@DorpsGek>-Feature: [NewGRF] Vehicle variable 4D for determining the position within an articulated vehicle.
15:21<andythenorth>that easy eh? :)
15:21<andythenorth>so does nml need to know about that var?
15:22<frosch123>wiki, nforenum, nml
15:22<frosch123>that's the order or so :p
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15:27*andythenorth looks at nml code
15:28<andythenorth>masks and stuff
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15:33<@planetmaker>andy, does 'position_in_articulated_vehicle' sound like an acceptable variable name?
15:33<andythenorth>sounds perfect
15:35<frosch123>planetmaker: there are two, from front and from back
15:35<frosch123>they are similary to 40 and 41 wrt that
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15:36<frosch123>position_in_consist, position_in_consist_from_end, position_in_vehid_chain, position_in_vehid_chain_from_end <- it should match those
15:37<frosch123>so, yeah, positition_in_articulated_vehicle and position_in_articulated_vehicle_from_end would fit, but would be quite long :p
15:38<@planetmaker> yeah. just checked the commit. long variable names...
15:38<@planetmaker>I came up with the same
15:38<@planetmaker>I wonder whether they should be shorter
15:39*peter1138 ponders actually using his sims 3 key
15:40<Taede>arciculated lorries are commonly referred to as artics, so you might get away with position_in_artic_from_end etc
15:40<andythenorth>long names are fine
15:41<andythenorth>just trim vehicle to veh
15:41<@planetmaker>agreed. It's even more consistent then
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15:43<DanMacK>Hey all
15:44<andythenorth>hi hi DanMacK
15:48<@planetmaker>so, when you get the notification in devzone channel of successful build of NML the variables will be available, andythenorth
15:49<@planetmaker>(another advantage of this CF - it updates itself immediately with new nml / grfcodec / pixa)
15:49<@planetmaker>hi DanMacK
15:49<andythenorth>new features DanMacK ;)
15:49<DanMacK>sweet :D
15:49<andythenorth>we might go from 10 IDs per IH 'vehicle' to 2
15:49<DanMacK>Features for what? lol
15:49<andythenorth>but don't go using them all up :P
15:50<andythenorth>means another recode :P
15:50<andythenorth>I could do it now (no IH for christmas) or later (less broken savegames)
15:52<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26158 trunk/src/table/newgrf_debug_data.h (2013-12-13 20:52:25 UTC)
15:52<@DorpsGek>-Fix: NewGRF inspect window lacked several newer variables.
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15:54<andythenorth>sometimes I could use an 'inspect individual vehicle' option for trains
15:54<andythenorth>can't think of an easy way to do that though
15:54<frosch123>just use the left/right buttons at the top
15:55*DanMacK would like the "Replace Vehicles" option to replace with same type
15:55<frosch123>it's called autorenew
15:55<andythenorth>my favourite new features are the existing ones I didn't know about
15:55<andythenorth>been a few of these recently
15:55<DanMacK>but I don't want to replace everything
15:56<DanMacK>I like the option to select what I want to auto-replace
15:56<andythenorth>where are the left/right buttons?
15:57<andythenorth>I've been playing 1.3.0 for too long :P
15:57<frosch123>pff, what were you using?
15:57<andythenorth>that is very useful
15:57<andythenorth>especially for IH with 3 vehicles per 'unit'
15:59<andythenorth>DanMacK: do you happen to know which railtype grf we can use for NG?
15:59<andythenorth>I only know of the old NG Rails, which isn't railtypes
16:00<Zuu>andythenorth: I've read short about IH in the logs. It sounds good with a set with only useful choises. I played a different game a few weeks ago - Cities in Motion 2 - where you only have 3 different busses - yet all of them have a usage and I don't feel that I miss out any bus.
16:00<andythenorth>Zuu :) So far IH is managing that
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16:00<andythenorth>would you agree DanMacK ?
16:01<Zuu>andythenorth: Will IH only be one type of vehicles (eg. RV) or also trains?
16:01<andythenorth>trains only
16:01<andythenorth>we have an RV set planned, but not now
16:02<andythenorth>maybe after roadtypes is done :P
16:02*andythenorth is trolling
16:02<DanMacK>yep, I do agree
16:03<DanMacK>Oberhumer has a NG set on the Fruit Store
16:03<andythenorth>I think Nutracks probably has some
16:03<DanMacK>"Narrow Gauge Track Types"
16:03<andythenorth>it has everything :(
16:03<andythenorth>I don't have an engine to test with yet though
16:03<andythenorth>and engines won't appear if they have no railtype
16:03<andythenorth>and railtypes won't appear if there's no engines
16:03<DanMacK>I'd say look at that one
16:04<DanMacK>and what are you waiting for, you have the test sprite :P
16:04<andythenorth>coding it now ;)
16:04<andythenorth>need a railtype grf
16:04<andythenorth>so this cape gauge stuff - are we going to make that default to 'normal rail'?
16:04<andythenorth>or make people install a railtype grf?
16:04<andythenorth>normal seems better
16:05<DanMacK>the "Narrow Gauge" for the cape gauge will be 2'6"
16:05<andythenorth>so I have to set some labels up *inside* IH
16:05<andythenorth>internal to the grf only
16:05<andythenorth>for the 2'6" stuff
16:05<andythenorth>and then CAPE or whatever for the other stuff
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16:33<andythenorth>compile is
16:47<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26159 extra/website/bananas/ (2013-12-13 21:47:01 UTC)
16:47<@DorpsGek>[website] -Fix: Use grfid to compute md5sum of .grf files in base graphics.
16:48<frosch123>does it give +1/+1 ?
16:56<@planetmaker>if tapped it will provide black mana ;)
16:57<@planetmaker>did I mention that I absolutely do NOT like that cardgame? :P
16:57<frosch123>i barely know the real cardgame
16:57<frosch123>i only know the supposedly easier game inspired by it
16:58<frosch123>does the original also have bananas?
16:58<@planetmaker>No clue. I don't own a single card of it
16:58<@planetmaker>selling a dozen cards for a dozen euros always seemed not worth my money ;)
16:58<frosch123>yup :p
16:59<frosch123>esp. since "limited" is likely more fun, but even more expensive
17:00<frosch123>well, i guess you can reshuffle them
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17:04<andythenorth>DanMacK: so my game currently has in the menu: NG rail, rail, elrail, metro, and metro (with catenary) :P
17:04<andythenorth>the last one is kind of pointless :)
17:05<andythenorth>fun times :P
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17:33*andythenorth watches a slow slow slow compile :(
17:34*Supercheese wishes there was a TTD nighttime base set, rather than OpenGFX
17:34<Supercheese>although the OGFX night set is damn impressive
17:34<andythenorth>Supercheese: patch the game's palette
17:34<andythenorth>255 colours -> black :P
17:34<Supercheese>not just palette, the lighted windows
17:35<Supercheese>and other details
17:35<frosch123>nah, power outage and new moon
17:35<frosch123>do you have candles? i have none
17:35*Supercheese has battery-powered candles
17:35<andythenorth>just light the trains :P
17:35<frosch123>at least none i would find in the dark :p
17:36<andythenorth>the purple window shades are mostly only used for the windows
17:36<andythenorth>move those to yellow :P
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18:29<stanek>How does one set up emacs to properly handle openttd's code style? it's currently giving me a hard time with tabs :P
18:31<+glx>by using another editor ?
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18:40<LordAro>glx, ^^
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19:16<Zuu>Oh lang_sync needs python 3. I guess I could just wait for the next automatic sync and allow more people to contribute translations before realeasing a new NAI.
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19:28<Xaroth|Work>surely porting it back to 2.X isn't that hard?
19:29<Zuu>possible, but I could also just get some sleep and let eints automatically merge the changes.
19:29<Zuu>Good night
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19:29<NGC3982>Cannot.. Stop.. Watching.. Game Grumps.
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---Logclosed Sat Dec 14 00:00:31 2013