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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-12-22

---Logopened Sun Dec 22 00:00:44 2013
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03:20<andythenorth>hmm
03:20<Rubidium_>... too early?
03:21<andythenorth>it might be time for an andythenorth break again soon :P
03:21<andythenorth>stuff like this - really well intentioned - saps my will to live
03:21<andythenorth>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1106810#p1106810
03:21<andythenorth>or at least, I have no idea what he's talking about or how to fix it :P
03:23<andythenorth>I can't even follow the maths
03:24<Rubidium_>looks like he wants a precise definition of when the higher outputs trigger. He tried to figure out what they currently are, but couldn't find a consistent number
03:25<Rubidium_>... though... do I have to congratulate you for a thread with 1000 posts in it?
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03:30<andythenorth>1k posts o_O
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03:45<andythenorth>nice round number
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03:56<andythenorth>urgh, no idea how to explain to him how FIRS boost works
03:57<andythenorth>there are three permanent registers
03:57<andythenorth>every month the production cb runs, and effectively does a push and pop on the registers
03:59<andythenorth>if the sum of the registers is greater than threshold 1 or 2, then boost 1 or 2 is invoked
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03:59<andythenorth>every time cargo is delivered, the produce cb is called, and adds the cargo to current register
03:59<NGC3982>Morning.
03:59<andythenorth>due to gradual unloading, the produce cb could possibly be called either side of the monthly production cb, dunno
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04:00<andythenorth>possibly due to integer maths, small cargo deliveries might be discarded
04:00<andythenorth>dunno
04:01<andythenorth>I have no idea why separating vehicles matters
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04:03<andythenorth>I don't know why 20 days is signifcant
04:03<andythenorth>I don't know why it behaves differently on the fourth delivery
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04:07<andythenorth>so what's a good name for a new industry set? o_O
04:07<andythenorth>maybe animal themed?
04:07<andythenorth>to go with Squid, Road Hog and Iron Horse
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04:11<andythenorth>or vegetables?
04:11<andythenorth>Cabbage Patch?
04:12<Rubidium_>star fruit?
04:12<Rubidium_>(if it is meant to become your star fruit on the fruit store)
04:13<andythenorth>Hmm
04:13<andythenorth>Axe?
04:13<andythenorth>Axe Chopped FIRS
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04:23<andythenorth>Deadwood?
04:23<andythenorth>Turkey Farm?
04:25<andythenorth>Strange Fruit
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04:34<andythenorth>FIRS Deux
04:34<andythenorth>FIRS Redux
04:35*andythenorth -> chores
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05:15<@Alberth>moin
05:16<Taede>moin
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05:35<@planetmaker>moin
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05:47<Wolf01>hello
05:59<@Alberth>hi hi
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06:07<frosch123>moin
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06:36<frosch123>andythenorth: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=44177&start=1000 <- ok post?
06:38<@planetmaker>I believe that covers it concise and precise
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06:42<andythenorth>post 1001
06:50<andythenorth>nice reply
06:50<andythenorth>I was trying to write something friendly and helpful
06:50<andythenorth>but I find the whole question tedious and weird :P
06:50<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26168 /trunk/bin/baseset (no_music.obm orig_win.obm) (2013-12-22 11:50:52 UTC)
06:50<@DorpsGek>-Update: Baseset translations
06:51<andythenorth>anyway, he probably wasn't being aided by the bug in FIRS where > should have been >=
06:52<frosch123>just add a "+" to it
06:52<frosch123>that will confuse them
06:52<frosch123>http://xkcd.com/1224/
06:54<andythenorth>ho ho
06:54<andythenorth>describes my day job :P
06:55<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26169 /trunk/src (3 files in 2 dirs) (2013-12-22 11:55:07 UTC)
06:55<@DorpsGek>-Fix-ish [FS#5831-ish]: Unify the time a RV needs to travel through a curve.
06:56<andythenorth>so I was thinking about manual dist
06:56<andythenorth>for various reasons
06:57<andythenorth>I can't figure out how to initially assign destination to a packet
06:57<andythenorth>afaict, if I've read description correctly, cdist doesn't have destinations for packets
06:57<@planetmaker>andythenorth, manual dist is the game w/o cargodist...
06:57<andythenorth>+ transfers
06:58<andythenorth>+ loading on any vehicle with correct cargo refit, even if not in linkgraph
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07:12<frosch123>hmm, whenever i enable optimisations, i am stunned how fast ottd actually is
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07:13<Eddi|zuHause>"For one and a half hour, only 2 out of 13 speakers in parliament were from opposition parties, giving them only 10 minutes of speaking time. the correspondent of sueddeutsche.de left due to sheer boredom, he couldn't imagine anything useful coming out of this endless monologue"
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07:24<andythenorth>ok point taken :(
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08:56<NGC3982>Poopz.
08:56<NGC3982>I'm bored with OpenTTD.
08:57<LordAro>D:
08:57<NGC3982>I'm using NewGRF's and zBase, and i'm ..bored.
08:57<NGC3982>Plz halp lol.
08:59<@Alberth>add a game script like nocargoal or silicon valley?
08:59<LordAro>play 'vanilla' ?
08:59<@Alberth>play a 'weird' map size (64x1024) or so?
09:00<NGC3982>The thing is, i think i have tied myself on playing on my own servers, making time between "new maps with new stuff" prolonged.
09:00<NGC3982>I guess i could go back to single-player, doing the things you tell me.
09:01<NGC3982>LordAro: Mmm. Vanilla's good.
09:01<NGC3982>I sometimes forget that the world does not need CHIPS in everything
09:02<NGC3982>No offence, creators.
09:02<LordAro>:)
09:02<LordAro>that said, i haven't played OTTD in months :(
09:02<NGC3982>How's that?
09:03<@Alberth>LordAro: you're becoming a dev :p
09:03<LordAro>Alberth: yeah :)
09:03<LordAro>haven't played hugely since i started deving :L
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09:11<Japa>NGC3982, Do challenges for yourself? Link up every city with cargodist?
09:12<NGC3982>I don't even know what cargodist is
09:12*NGC3982 googles wildly.
09:12<@Alberth>:o
09:12<@Alberth>play a nightly
09:14<NGC3982>Man, cargodist sounds nice.
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09:16<@Alberth>for some values of 'nice', indeed
09:17<NGC3982>?
09:17<Eddi|zuHause>i haven't played openttd in over two years
09:21<@Alberth>NGC3982: Depending on what exactly you expect from cargo distribution, cdist is more or less nice.
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09:50<NGC3982>I'll try it out.
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12:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26170 /trunk/src (3 files) (2013-12-22 17:46:27 UTC)
12:46<@DorpsGek>-Feature-ish: add the currently used fonts to the crash log
12:48<frosch123>what are gdb bookmarks?
12:48<frosch123>and why does it break the autocompletion on "d b 1" :(
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13:22<__ln__>http://imgur.com/gallery/0IkGI
13:27<@Alberth>:(
13:27<@Alberth>hihi
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13:50<fonsinchen>The problem with figuring out the associations between stations and Towns/Industries/Headquarters could be approached by using a probabilistic data structure, such as a bloom filter.
13:51<fonsinchen>It would always correctly identify existing associations, but also report a few non-existing ones as valid.
13:51<fonsinchen>Thus you'd get some misrouted cargo, or "bonus destinations".
13:51<fonsinchen>The upside is that you don't have to do any bookkeeping on that thing.
13:52<fonsinchen>No need to figure out if a town has shrunk so much that a certain station doesn't cover it anymore and other nasty things.
13:53<fonsinchen>But what to do with the false positives?
13:57<@Alberth>I'd suggest to move them silently to a nearby destination, but that may not exist either, I guess
13:57<@Alberth>perhaps check for one destination?
14:00<frosch123>how likely are false positives?
14:00<fonsinchen>Depends on how long I make the bitfield and how sloppy I am with cleaning it up.
14:01<frosch123>there have always been some false positives. like stations still accepting cargo for up to 250 ticks after industry closure and such
14:01<fonsinchen>The initial idea is not to clean it up at all. However, by cycling copies of the bitfield and XORing them together before usage you can sort of expire associations.
14:02<fonsinchen>250 ticks is only a bit more than 3 days
14:02<fonsinchen>This would be "Oh, btw, cargo is not only delivered to the destinations listed in the industry but because your station has a certain ID it gets 2 extra destinations!"
14:03<fonsinchen>I was thinking of popping up a subsidy window "You have discovered a bonus route! 4x profit for one year"
14:03<fonsinchen>Would be kinda funny
14:04<@Alberth>only do that once during a certain day in the year :p
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14:32<andythenorth>http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=463079&nseq=5
14:33<fonsinchen>In YACD a certain share of cargo was routed to "other destinations". Can anyone explain why that is useful?
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14:45<@Alberth>to get less than 100% rating?
14:49<fonsinchen>If that is the only use we might replace it with "bonus routes". That is more fun, at least...
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14:52<Zuu>As OpenTTD give perfect information about trips that occur to a destination, the other group could be seen as a way to model that you do usually not have perfect information about where people go.
14:53<Rubidium>fonsinchen: might that be to not favour one destination that gets the last 1 unit of cargo?
14:55<Xaroth|Work>Zuu: ever tried communication between nogo <=> admin port ?
14:55<fonsinchen>Zuu, I was more thinking about the usefulness in gameplay terms than about realism
14:55<fonsinchen>Rubidium, can you elaborate a bit? What's the deal with the last 1 unit of cargo?
14:56<Zuu>Xaroth|Work: Yes - i've written a GS that is a bridge between GS API and admin port clients. This GS I did test with a Joan client.
14:57<Zuu>fonsinchen: In terms of game play I'm sure some think the "other destinations" group looks like lost cargo. eg something that should not be there.
14:57<Rubidium>fonsinchen: imagine you have 5 destinations and 3 units of cargo; if the way the cargo is spread is deterministic, then the same 3 will get that cargo instead of something random
14:57<Xaroth|Work>happen to have that GS somewhere?
14:57<Zuu>It's ServerGS on bananas
14:58<andythenorth>Xaroth|Work: what steps did you follow to get a firs compile with PyPy, given that chameleon sulks about PyPy?
14:58<Rubidium>although... 'anywhere' is: get on first vehicle, right?
14:58<Xaroth|Work>somebody poked me the other day on getting libottdadmin2 to work with one of your nogo scripts :|
14:58<Xaroth|Work>andythenorth: I preprocess through python
14:58<Xaroth|Work>and do the rest in pypy
14:58<andythenorth>so did you change the shebangs or something?
14:59<fonsinchen>YACD assigns destinations based on cargo output. If output is low there will be few destinations.
14:59<andythenorth>or edit the makefile?
14:59<Xaroth|Work>er, i changed the makefile, really
14:59<Xaroth|Work>I pip install'ed the libraries needed
14:59<andythenorth>ugh, I could actually have the makefile activate and deactivat virtualenvs
14:59<andythenorth>ew
14:59<Xaroth|Work>then reverted most of them back to their python versions
14:59<fonsinchen>I don't quite know what it exactly does. It seems to get on vehicles going to "other" places, though.
14:59<Xaroth|Work>so i have a pip-pypy and nmlc-pypy
15:00<Zuu>Xaroth|Work: I did find out some time ago that you can actually install GSes and other bananas stuff on a dedicated server using console commands: http://wiki.openttd.org/Dedicated_server#Installing_online_content
15:00<Xaroth|Work>Zuu: ta, will check out in a bit
15:00<Zuu>I did improve the console command a bit in trunk so it is easier to find the content you want to download - as long as you have an idea what its name is.
15:02<fonsinchen>I like the bonus routes idea but in order to make it possible to find out if you've hit a bonus route other cargo has to stick to fixed destinations.
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15:17<andythenorth>night
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16:59<Wolf01>https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7966915840/h697090FE/ right, or an unicorn
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17:09<__ln__>Wolf01: *a unicorn, not an
17:09<Wolf01>:(
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17:21<frosch123>__ln__: *the* unicorn, not *a*
17:22<__ln__>i see, there can be only one
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---Logclosed Mon Dec 23 00:00:46 2013