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#openttd IRC Logs for 2013-12-29

---Logopened Sun Dec 29 00:00:58 2013
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03:00<juzza1>Flygon_: what train newgrf(s) are you using, and what is the year you are expecting the electric rails to appear?
03:00-!-Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
03:00<Flygon>2CC
03:00<Flygon>As in, the 2CC worldwide set
03:01<Flygon>Was expecting the electric stuff to appear largely in sync with how it did with NuTracks
03:01<Flygon>Buuuut, well
03:02<Flygon>Given what I've just figured out, 2CC stuffs out a lot of low speed electric sets early on, and the lowest electric rails in FRISS seems to be 140km/h :p
03:03<Flygon>(as in, the mainline ones)
03:05<juzza1>the electric rails in FRISS are generally introduced from the year 1968, unless an train which requires catenary appears earlier
03:06*Flygon nod, "Understood"
03:07<Flygon>Not as familiar with the history of Finland as I should be, sorry x3
03:07<Flygon>Finnish rail, anyway
03:09<juzza1>i should change the props so that (at least) one electrified branch line is introduced as soon as the electrified mainline is introduced
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03:11<juzza1>should be changed in the next release
03:11<juzza1>*will
03:15<Flygon>I had to brb, sorry
03:15<Flygon>Alright, thanks :)
03:15<Flygon>This's my first FRISS game, that is all
03:16<Flygon>The 90km/h cap on Metro is mildly surprising, though, given a few sets go over that. But, then again, it is a Finnish rail set
03:30<juzza1>A parameter to disable that would make sense, considering speed limit for the best mainline can also be disabled
03:31*Flygon nod
03:40<Flygon>Also, for some reason, the Sand/Gravel and Gravel Base graphics are sharing the... same graphics, obviously. The Sand/Gravel changed to the same as Gravel when Gravel became available (the Sand/Gravel was the same as sand/gravel siding graphics)
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03:44<Flygon>Do note, though. At the start of the game, I accidentally set the GRF's to the wrong palette, and had to fix this later mid-game
03:44<Flygon>Which's, obviously, against guidelines
03:48<@peter1138>Which's, huh
03:48<Flygon>My English isn't the best, darnit @_@
03:49<Flygon>All Australians are terrible at English! :D
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03:59<juzza1>yes, some of the railtypes do intentionally look the same, especially in later years. this could be somewhat fixed in a later release by changing the minimap colors for each railtype
04:00<Flygon>The problem is more that a railtype changed appearance, mid-game
04:00<Flygon>Without me doing anything to it
04:01<Flygon>And examination revealed that the railtype looked identical to the one that just got introduced
04:01<Flygon>But it looked different before the new railtype became introduced
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04:04<juzza1>it's supposed to mimic how it actually happened in finland (old ballast/sleepers getting replaced), so again, it's intentional, although i can understand the confusion
04:05<Flygon>Hmm
04:05<Flygon>Interesting
04:06<Flygon>Such things never really happened here. Track was assigned specific class, and ballast application never really changed in the many many years
04:06<Flygon>Let's rephrase that: The visual appearance didn't change. I'm really not used to Scandinavian/European practice. x3
04:07<Flygon>Sorry for my... er... there's gotta be a word for this
04:07<Flygon>I'd say derpiness, but that sounds silly
04:13<juzza1>it has always been a bit weird, starting from the olden times when we adopted broad gauge because finland was a part of russia
04:13<juzza1>but I have to go now ->
04:13<Flygon>We're perpetually in Broad Gauge here :B
04:13<Flygon>Have fun!
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05:25<andythenorth>moin
05:26<Rubidium>moin mr thenorth
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06:58<@Alberth>moin
06:59<Flygon>Morning
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07:09<@Alberth>o/
07:11<andythenorth>o/
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07:45<Xaroth|Work>o/
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08:47<andythenorth>meh
08:47<andythenorth>trying to figure out how to have less than 4 generations of trucks :P
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09:10<Xaroth|Work>andythenorth: metaclasses
09:10<Xaroth|Work>whatever it is, metaclasses
09:10<andythenorth>thanks
09:10<andythenorth>I shall keep that in mind
09:12<Xaroth|Work>I think, with a bit (read: crapload) of effort, grfs can be created from pure python code, rather than python => templates => nml => grf
09:13<andythenorth>they can
09:13<andythenorth>try it :D
09:18<Xaroth|Work>meh
09:18<Xaroth|Work>first libopenttd
09:18<Xaroth|Work>then maaaybe something for grfs
09:19<Xaroth|Work>mainly because I have no clue what-so-ever about the spec, so i'll have to investigate first
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09:37<Wolf01>moin
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09:39<Taede>ello
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09:47<andythenorth>Xaroth|Work: you'd rip most of the stuff from nml - the lexer, all of the constants etc
09:48<andythenorth>you'd still end up writing something that looked like templates, because you'd get bored of formatting strings of bytes directly
09:48<andythenorth>if you do it in C or something, it might actually be performative too :P
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09:49<Xaroth|Work>andythenorth: I was more likely to just rewrite it :P
09:50<Xaroth|Work>and with python's metaclass system, it can look pwetty
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09:51<andythenorth>do you actually have a plan? o_O
09:52<andythenorth>like, what would the interface be?
09:52<Xaroth|Work>you know a bit how metaclasses work in python?
09:53<andythenorth>vaguely
09:53<andythenorth>I have read articles on them
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10:11<Xaroth|Work>andythenorth: https://github.com/libopenttd/libopenttd/blob/master/test/test_simple.py
10:12<Xaroth|Work>basically, packets.Packet has a metaclass that adds some magic to it, so that we only have to describe packets, and the metaclass will build us a reader/writer for the raw data
10:13<Xaroth|Work>kinda like how Django does its ORM
10:14<Xaroth|Work>so for GRF building, people can just describe their GRF in form of classes (not sure how to do the conditionals, but I haven't looked at that -at all- yet)
10:15<andythenorth>I'm curious how you'd do varaction 2 switches (for example)
10:15<andythenorth>classes for the vehicles / objects / tiles etc is plausible
10:15<Xaroth|Work>I have -no- idea :p
10:16<Xaroth|Work>I don't know most of the specs to have any clue how to fix those
10:16<andythenorth>maybe something like a Switch class
10:16<Xaroth|Work>but idealisticly speaking, if nmlc can parse it from text, surely it can be built :)
10:16<andythenorth>with multiple Row classes, passed in an iterable, fixed order
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10:17<Xaroth|Work>but that said, I'm first going to work on libopenttd
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11:22<Eddi|zuHause>i have no clue what this saphire guy is trying to achieve...
11:22<Eddi|zuHause>he's somewhere between SkiddLow and andythenorth :p
11:23<andythenorth>he is somewhat having fun I think
11:23<andythenorth>pumping out awesome
11:23<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: hopefully you just described a full spectrum :P
11:23<Eddi|zuHause>i doubt that :)
11:24<Eddi|zuHause>at least not in the "knows what he wants" department :p
11:27<andythenorth>I dunno, I think skiddlow knows 100% what he wants
11:37<andythenorth>I always wondered what the term meant... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milk_run
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11:43<Xaroth|Work>http://i.imgur.com/IDTosfD.jpg
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12:29<andythenorth>114 trucks in egrvts
12:29<andythenorth>covering 200 years
12:33<andythenorth>Alberth: you prefer to pick vehicles directly for a cargo where possible? No refitting?
12:38<andythenorth>nvm :)
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26185 trunk/src/lang/norwegian_nynorsk.txt (2013-12-29 18:45:09 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>norwegian_nynorsk - 137 changes by terjesc
13:55<Macha>Does anyone know how a bus would manage to lost 15x its running costs in a year?
13:56<montalvo>hello, sorry if this is a basic question but i just downloaded 1.4.0-beta1 and was told i had to update opengfx to a beta version, but i don't know where to find the download for that?
13:56<Macha>Go to download online content, and install OpenGFX from there
13:56<Macha>(In the game menu, you might need to restart after)
13:57<montalvo>thank you :)
13:58<montalvo>hooray! that worked
13:58<montalvo>thanks again
14:00<Rubidium>Macha: http://wiki.openttd.org/Negative_income_with_feeder_service
14:03<Macha>Rubidium: Thanks
14:08<@planetmaker>hello
14:10<Xaroth|Work>it lives
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14:14<montalvo>so speaking of basic questions
14:14<montalvo>is there a guide somewhere about how this new cargo distribution feature works?
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14:17<Macha>http://wiki.openttd.org/Cargodist
14:17<Macha>Basically, cargo ends up in your station, and then the destination is chosen from among all the reachable stations that accept that good.
14:17<Macha>You turn it on/off seperately for pax, mail, valuables and everything else.
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14:18<Macha>And stuff is smart enough to automatically transfer if you have no direct line route
14:18<@planetmaker><Macha> Does anyone know how a bus would manage to lost 15x its running costs in a year? <-- NewGRF-provided vehicles can dynamically change running costs. The displayed value does not correspond to that in those cases.
14:19<@planetmaker>or more likely you use transfer orders where that vehicle gets a negative share of the overall profit
14:20<Macha>I don't use transfer orders, but stuff is transferring because of cargodist being on
14:20<@planetmaker>same thing then, I guess :)
14:20<@planetmaker>could, of course, also be both reasons
14:20<Macha>Yeah, I have UKRS trains and some UK bus set.
14:21<@planetmaker>they *do* dynamically change running costs
14:21<Macha>Ah, kk.
14:22<montalvo>Macha, thanks!
14:28<montalvo>so is this why my profits have dropped? because my mainline has loads of other stations along the way so passengers are getting off earlier?
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14:36<Macha>montalvo: Probably part of it
14:36<montalvo>boo
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15:59<__ln__>"Schumacher hospitalisé : hémorragie cérébrale, état critique"
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16:09<@planetmaker>sport ist mord
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17:50<Eddi|zuHause>hm, this is weird... steam had a crash problem, which i solved by updating wine, then it worked for a while, and now it crashes again on startup
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20:20-!-Macha is now known as Guest1804
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22:06-!-montalvo [~montalvo@ip68-108-148-173.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #openttd
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22:16-!-Haube [~michi@77-20-40-44-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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22:36<Wolf01>'night all
22:36-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
23:14-!-Pereba [~UserNick@187.113.80.131] has quit [Quit: Thumbs UP to AdiIRC 👍 [www.adiirc.com]]
23:28-!-gelignite_ [~gelignite@i528C38F1.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/nkczDT]
---Logclosed Mon Dec 30 00:00:58 2013