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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-01-01

---Logopened Wed Jan 01 00:00:02 2014
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04:23<@Alberth>moin
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05:50<andythenorth>o/
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05:57<Taede>happy newyear!!
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06:00<Wolf01>hello :D
06:01<Wolf01>happy new year to all
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06:23<@Terkhen>happy new year ;)
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06:43<@Alberth>hello all, and happy new year
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08:28<@planetmaker>moin
08:28<@Alberth>moin
08:44<@planetmaker>and I should also say happy new year everyone :)
08:58<Flygon>It was New Years Day yesterday :p
08:58<Flygon>Get with the AEDST :B
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12:46<secure_>hello folks
12:47<@planetmaker>hi
12:47<secure_>would anyone here like to start a multi-player map with me
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12:48<@planetmaker>did you try to join any of the many existing multiplayer servers?
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12:49<secure_>yeah, kinda looking to make a new friend and have a go
12:49<@Alberth>aren't most players in #tycoon ? (no idea really, I never go there)
12:49<secure_>is this room for devs?
12:50<@planetmaker>nah, this is the channel for everything around OpenTTD
12:52<@Alberth>there not a lot of players active here
12:52<@planetmaker>looking for players is a bit uncommon, though. No idea, maybe in #tycoon indeed there's some players, too
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12:54<secure_>okay, well i've started my own server. perhaps i'll make friends better this way
12:55<@Alberth>you know how many servers there are, and how many players are online, right? :)
12:56<@planetmaker>http://www.openttd.org/en/servers <-- for reference :)
12:56<secure_>yeah, I find most people to be aggressive players and very good at the game, I just hope to meet somebody who is willing to co-operate
12:56<@planetmaker>while the user base seems to be reasonably large, most seem to prefer single player.
12:56<@planetmaker>have you tried the #openttdcoop servers, secure_ ?
12:57<@planetmaker>notably the welcome server?
12:57<secure_>no i haven't yet, sorry to be so naive but where will i find those?
12:58<@planetmaker>in your server list (hopefully) :)
12:58<@planetmaker>when you try to join a multiplayer server. you need 1.4.0-beta1
12:59<@planetmaker>it uses always the latest release, including release candidates and betas
12:59<secure_>ohh, I am just using 1.3.1
13:00<secure_>I guess the apt repository is out of date. perhaps I should compile from source instead
13:00<@planetmaker>online play usually is only successful, if you use the current stable release. Or like described testing release
13:01<@planetmaker>you could simply download pre-compiled binaries...
13:01<@planetmaker>www.openttd.org/download-testing (or download-stable or download-trunk)
13:01<secure_>I only see releases for 1.3.3
13:02<secure_>spotted it, sorry
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13:05<secure_>how do i find the co-op server? I don't see any options to choose server types
13:06<@Alberth> #openttdcoop - Welcome Server (www.openttdcoop.org) 3 / 255 8 / 15 1.4.0-beta1
13:06<secure_>tyvm
13:07<@Alberth>there is a search box iirc, just type 'welcome' :)
13:08<@Alberth>oh, the 0.6.3 server is gone :)
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26193 trunk/src/lang/german.txt (2014-01-01 18:45:12 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>german - 1 changes by Jogio
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13:47<__ln__>http://arxiv.org/abs/1312.7128
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13:54<andythenorth>o/
14:01<@Alberth>hi hi
14:06<andythenorth>https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/5676/cc_gui.png
14:13<@Alberth>how does it work?
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14:14<andythenorth>have to choose the checkbox to activate the controls for a row
14:14<andythenorth>it's just weird :)
14:15<@Alberth>+1
14:16<@Alberth>yellow dropdown boxes like the advanced settings make more sense
14:16<@Alberth>I am missing what the colour columns actually mean
14:16<andythenorth>1st and 2nd company colours
14:17<andythenorth>I wonder if this is a hangover from TTDP or something, where people just had to know what stuff meant
14:17<@Alberth>yeah, but there is no header
14:17<andythenorth>anyway, I think it's a candidate for a quick win :)
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14:17<andythenorth>without any discussion of liveries for individual vehicles, or by vehicle group, or any other fancy stuff
14:17<andythenorth>:)
14:18<@Alberth>the station window has this problem too, it just displays cargo amounts without further explanation :)
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14:20<andythenorth>the one that lists all stations?
14:20<andythenorth>or the per-station window?
14:20<@Alberth>per station
14:20<andythenorth>what am I looking for? o_O
14:20<andythenorth>I see '6 tonnes of clay'
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14:22<@Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/station_cargo.png yeah, but not what it means
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14:24<@Alberth>it doesn't say it is cargo currently waiting the station
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14:25<andythenorth>oh yeah, that + thing
14:25<andythenorth>what is that?
14:25<andythenorth>I was looking in stable, not nightly
14:26<@Alberth>it's clickable, and unfolds details of where cargo want to go, or comes from
14:26<@Alberth>ie sort of a tree node
14:28<@Alberth>if you switch to "ratings" you'll see a nice caption what the numbers mean
14:28<@Alberth>I expect something similar in this window too
14:29<andythenorth>where did my implicit order go? :O
14:30<andythenorth>it just got gardened out of the order list whilst I watched
14:30<@Alberth>the train did pass that station this time?
14:30<@Alberth>it gets dynamically updated
14:30<andythenorth>I'll just not worry about that :)
14:32<andythenorth>hmm
14:32<andythenorth>station just removed all waiting cargo
14:32<andythenorth>1,000t of it
14:32<andythenorth>bit odd
14:32<andythenorth>never seen that before
14:32<andythenorth>oh not
14:33<andythenorth>I switched to a view that hides all the cargo
14:33<andythenorth>oops
14:33<@Alberth>lol :)
14:33<andythenorth>so what is 'Station' and 'Amount'
14:33<andythenorth>?
14:33<@Alberth>?
14:34<andythenorth>there is a drop down in the station window
14:34<andythenorth>some of the options hide the cargo
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14:34<andythenorth>I don't understand what they are showing me
14:35<@Alberth>oh, that. It's the sorting order of the window
14:36<@Alberth>never used it, I think
14:36<@Alberth>but I guess you can put the station with the biggest amount of waiting cargo at the top, so you know what route needs fixing
14:37<andythenorth>interesting that sort order hides cargo
14:37<andythenorth>kind of a multi-purpose control
14:37<andythenorth>meanwhile....
14:37<@Alberth>there are 2 or 3 different forms of cargo
14:38<andythenorth>did you have any ideas for the station window? I can't work out what it actually does, so have no suggestions :D
14:38<@Alberth>stuff that has a route or not, stuff that is allocated to a vehicle or not
14:39<@Alberth>not yet; I was working on the ratings, and found a caption which I was then missing at the cargo display
14:40<@Alberth>did you know the ratings also display exclusive transport rights in its area?
14:40<@Alberth>*town, rather
14:40<andythenorth>no I didn't know that :)
14:41<andythenorth>I have been playing ottd for at least 6 years I think
14:41<andythenorth>it has more rabbit holes than photoshop
14:41<@Alberth>worse, they move and new ones get added all the time :p
14:42<andythenorth>interestingly we now have a localisation settings section
14:42<andythenorth>which took me a while to find, but is good
14:43<andythenorth>but lang, speed, currency and drive side are still localised in 'game options'
14:44<andythenorth>which also still contains screenshot format (really, is that even something that players need as a UI option?)
14:44<andythenorth>and also town names, unless I want to use a newgrf for those
14:45<@planetmaker>hey ho andythenort h
14:45<andythenorth>this is stuff I might actually be able to help fix, if I make some time
14:45<andythenorth>I can probably learn enough UI code without breaking too much :P
14:45<andythenorth>foolish words
14:45<andythenorth>ho planetmaker
14:45<@Alberth>hmm, given the alternatives of the screenshot format, I'd say it can be safely hidden:)
14:45<andythenorth>lol :)
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14:47<andythenorth>where did the costs and such go? Those I can't find :)
14:47<andythenorth>oic
14:47<@Alberth>costs of what?
14:47<@planetmaker>andythenorth, even with newgrfs, you need to set the town names here in the options
14:47<andythenorth>you do? :)
14:47<andythenorth>Alberth: running costs and such, I found them
14:47<@Alberth>:o where is that?
14:48<@Alberth>oh, the old dificulty window
14:48<andythenorth>it's gone :)
14:48<andythenorth>progress :)
14:48<@Alberth>yeah, let's make the other 118 or so windows disappear too :p
14:48<@Alberth>handwaving is sufficient :)
14:48<andythenorth>maybe just try and have 99?
14:49<@Alberth>good and more realistic intermediate goal :)
14:49<andythenorth>I don't mind the number of windows :)
14:49<andythenorth>we could just solve it all with one super-window if that was the problem :)
14:49<andythenorth>with tabs :P
14:49<@Alberth>lol
14:50<andythenorth>there is a known problem with fixing flow of setting up a game, which me and planetmaker had a solution to ~2 years
14:50<andythenorth>pictures and everything
14:50<andythenorth>and then there are all these little odd things that don't make sense
14:51<andythenorth>like why land generator isn't an advanced setting?
14:51<andythenorth>it's not like there are loads of alternatives
14:51<@Alberth>hackalittlebit also made a redesign
14:52<@Alberth>not sure how it differs from your design
14:53<@Alberth>:o I found your company colours window. I never realized the icons at the top had new sub-selections :p
14:53<andythenorth>yup :P
14:53<andythenorth>guess why?
14:53<@Alberth>cc is very non-interesting?
14:53<andythenorth>it's because trains have a crapload of their own special settings, whereas the other transport types just get a few
14:54<andythenorth>so if you put them all in one window (the obvious choice, no?), there's too much train stuff
14:54<@Alberth>of course, you are not supposed to use the other types of transport, don't you know?
14:54<andythenorth>:)
14:54<andythenorth>to be reasonable, they are just all the default types
14:55<andythenorth>but coaches get special treatment, freigh wagons don't?
14:55<@Alberth>pax likes colours :p
14:55<andythenorth>you should get a rating bonus for changing the colour within last 6 months :P
14:55<@Alberth>looks like a good candidate for a tree
14:55<@Alberth>lol
14:56<andythenorth>it's definitely a good candidate for removing the check box :)
14:56<@Alberth>someone will implement an automagic repainter :)
14:56<andythenorth>I think the reasoning was probably 'omg, what if I want to turn off my colour selection'
14:56<andythenorth>it's also really fun that I have to visit the top of the window to make the choice
14:57<andythenorth>instead of the dropdowns being in each row
14:57<@Alberth>weren't there limits on the number of drop downs or the number of widgets or so?
14:58<andythenorth>ah, could be
14:58<andythenorth>dunno :)
14:58<@Alberth>iirc I read somewhere that they changed that for the news settings window
14:58<@Alberth>in the good old days when widgets had hard-coded positions, all manually entered :)
14:59<@Alberth>and a window was a struct with function pointers :)
15:00<andythenorth>ok that makes sense :)
15:01<andythenorth>the airport building window is ugly
15:01<andythenorth>it has no box padding
15:01<andythenorth>(the controls run hard to the window edge)
15:01<@Alberth>currently the rotation arrows are at the wrong place too
15:02<andythenorth>it also has some behaviour that really annoys me, but I've forgotten what
15:02<andythenorth>let's see
15:03<@Alberth>hmm, I can select small airports, and then not some airport, both are disabled
15:03<andythenorth>found the behaviour
15:03<andythenorth>it doesn't remember by last selection when opening
15:04<andythenorth>which is tedious, because often I have to go use the land terraform tools while trying to build airports
15:04<andythenorth>rail station build window seems to handle this much better (stays open while terraforming for starters)
15:05<andythenorth>oh
15:05<andythenorth>it varies depending on newgrf or default station :o
15:05<andythenorth>wtf :)
15:07<andythenorth>I guess build station and build newgrf station are different functions, returning different behaviours to UI?
15:07<andythenorth>or something :P
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17:15<Eddi|zuHause><andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/5676/cc_gui.png <-- i do understand what the checkboxes are for, but what i find weird is that the dropdown boxes are at the top, instead of in each row.
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>you can get rid of the checkboxes if you have a "use default" entry in the dropdowns
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17:22<andythenorth>or just let the player restore to default themselves?
17:22<andythenorth>or is there some issue I haven't realised there?
17:22<andythenorth>I guess if you change the default...
17:22<andythenorth>...you don't want to have to go re-set all the others
17:26<andythenorth>urgh
17:26*andythenorth has silent rage
17:26<andythenorth>complexity != complicated mess
17:30<andythenorth>also, bedtime :)
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19:12<Aristide>Hi !
19:12<Aristide>What is a server for openttd ? :x
19:12<Aristide>(IRC Server)
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19:14<LordAro>Aristide: ... you're in it
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19:15<LordAro>w/e
19:15-!-Aristide [~quassel@tok69-5-82-235-150-75.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd
19:15<Aristide>Hi again :)
19:15<Aristide>Its better with an IRC Client
19:16<Aristide>So, the new Subway Station « Gare d'Oullins » in Lyon rocks <3
19:18<Wolf01>'night
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19:23<Aristide>http://www.lyon-en-lignes.org/Imagesdunet/Metro/oul4.jpg <3
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19:51<Stimrol>t
19:51<Stimrol>!date
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---Logclosed Thu Jan 02 00:00:04 2014