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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-01-02

---Logopened Thu Jan 02 00:00:04 2014
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03:35<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26194 /trunk (9 files in 2 dirs) (2014-01-02 08:35:45 UTC)
03:35<@DorpsGek>-Change: add SSE detection to the configure script with the possibility to disable it (based on patch by MJP)
03:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26195 /trunk (5 files in 2 dirs) (2014-01-02 08:45:28 UTC)
03:45<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: move debug's ottd_rdtsc (CPU specific high precision timer) into cpu.h/cpp
03:53<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26196 /trunk/projects (4 files) (2014-01-02 08:53:09 UTC)
03:53<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r26195): forgot project files
03:55<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26197 /trunk/src (cpu.cpp cpu.h) (2014-01-02 08:55:32 UTC)
03:55<@DorpsGek>-Add: wrappers around cpuid
04:07<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26198 trunk/config.lib (2014-01-02 09:07:50 UTC)
04:07<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r26195): some platforms leave an .exe around...
04:11<@Terkhen>good morning
04:14<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26199 trunk/src/cpu.cpp (2014-01-02 09:14:13 UTC)
04:14<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r29197): typo in function name
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04:26<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26200 trunk/src/cpu.cpp (2014-01-02 09:26:21 UTC)
04:26<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r26197): hopefully it works now
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04:54<Flygon>I really gotta get used to these eGRVTS articulated Trams
04:54<Flygon>Ones in Melbourne have jocabs bogies @_@
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06:04<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26201 trunk/src/spritecache.cpp (2014-01-02 11:04:37 UTC)
06:04<@DorpsGek>-Fix: unscaling by a negative value is the same as scaling by a positive number
06:05<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26202 trunk/src/zoom_func.h (2014-01-02 11:05:42 UTC)
06:05<@DorpsGek>-Cleanup: since ZOOM_LEVEL_NORMAL 0 and there aren't any negative zoom levels, there is no reason to account for negative zoom levels in the zoom functions (based on patch by MJP)
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06:47<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26203 trunk/src/gfx.cpp (2014-01-02 11:47:09 UTC)
06:47<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: unduplicate GfxMainBlitter and GfxMainBlitterViewport
06:58<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26204 trunk/src/gfx.cpp (2014-01-02 11:58:13 UTC)
06:58<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: rework GfxBlitter to remove some unneeded operations when there is no sub sprite (based on patch by MJP)
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08:31<@Alberth>hi hi
08:33<Xaroth|Work>sup Taede
08:33<Taede>nothing much, just drinking my morning cuppa
08:33<Xaroth|Work>hmmmm cuppa
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08:38<Aristide>Hi Xaroth|Work and Alberth o/
08:38<Aristide>Wolf01: \o/
08:38<Aristide>Taede: \o/
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09:45<Flygon>Either I found a bug in one of the (now a few days old) nightlys, OpenGFX+, or my video card hates one of these tiles.
09:48<Flygon> Is this a known issue?
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09:53<@planetmaker>what tiles are that which glitch?
09:53<Flygon>Fenced Land
09:53<Flygon>I've never seen it until now
09:53<Flygon>But I can seem to replicate it on that direction of slopes
09:53<Flygon>But I must really really note this now
09:54<Flygon>The game is based on a scenario that I added the NewGRFs to
09:54<Flygon>The visual issue happens on other tiles of the same inclination
09:54<Flygon>It's like I'm playing DooM with noclip :D
09:54<@planetmaker>can you give me the savegame, please?
09:55<Flygon>Gimmie a sec
09:55<Flygon>It's a giant one, and I'm on good ol' *cough* reliable Australian Internet
09:56<@planetmaker>hm, nvm, yes
09:57<Flygon>3 minutes left. Whee, 23kbyte/s uploads.
09:59<@planetmaker>don't worry :)
09:59<Flygon> r26182 btw
09:59<@planetmaker>it's actually easy to reproduce
09:59<Flygon>You replicated it your end?
10:00<Flygon>Ah. Alright. I was worried it would have been caused by my messing around with NewGRFs applied post-whatevererallery
10:00<Flygon>If I asked a Finn, there'd probably be a word for it
10:06<@planetmaker>ah, nasty
10:09<@planetmaker>the steep slopes for coastal sprites of the company land are broken
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10:18<Aristide>planetmaker: o/
10:18<Aristide>planetmaker: o/
10:18<Aristide>Hi :)
10:18<Aristide>Arf double fail :(
10:18<Aristide>Flygon: o/
10:18<Aristide>I like new subway sttion <3
10:18<Flygon>...oh, my, god
10:18<Aristide>In Lyon
10:18<Aristide>Flygon: Well and you ?
10:18<Flygon>Another one that says Arf!!
10:19<Flygon>I've met my long lost brother!!
10:19<Flygon>Squeeee! <3!!
10:19<Flygon>I am well
10:19<Flygon>This isn't the channel to go all excited and pounce and hug in x3
10:19<Aristide> <3
10:19<Aristide> <3
10:20<Flygon>Makes the City Loop look like a sewer :p
10:21<Aristide> and <3
10:22<Rubidium>Flygon: talking about reliable internet, how reliable is it in Australian trains/long distance busses?
10:23<Flygon>Depends on the state
10:23<Flygon>Victoria's probably the best bet
10:23<Flygon>The rest are a bit of a crapshoot
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10:24<Flygon>Vic, NSW, and WA have HST 'capable' trains. But the XPT is a slightly redesigned Class 43 with a lower gearing (max they got in trials is 193km/h). WA and Vic basically share very similiar Diesel railcars that could easily go 200km/h if the (quite thick in the head) beaurocracy said "Sure, why not"
10:25<Aristide>I don't know bus specification of TCL Network :(
10:25<Flygon>Not that the VLocity cars haven't been trialled at over 200km/h (but, this's off-hand. The official speed record holders are still the XPT and the QR Tilt Train). Reportedly, the front panellings fell off around 210-220km/h due to the vibrations.
10:25<Aristide>But TCL like Citelis 12 and 18
10:25<Flygon>I could make jokes about that, but this channel is neither here nor there
10:25<Flygon>But in terms of actual reliability on the timetable?
10:25<Flygon>Good luck. xD
10:26<Flygon>(the QR Tilt Train is one of the worlds fastest regular Narrow Gauge services. But you'll find a lot of Queensland railfans pretending it never existed)
10:27<Rubidium>I guess they beat in realiability compared to the latest Dutch HST acquisition
10:27<Flygon>New South Wales has a very long distance train and bus network. But the services are basically token only. Running as infrequently as once a week (eg. Broken Hill train)
10:28<Flygon>Anyway, the XPT, TransWA Prospector / V/Line VLocity, and QR Tilt Train services tend to hover around 160-170km/h, with the VLocity derivatives hitting 160km/h easiest (they're ludicrously fast accelerating for a Diesel train. They outaccelerate Sydney's suburban trains!!!)
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10:30<Rubidium>but what about the internet on the trains?
10:30<Flygon>Internet on trains?
10:30<Flygon>Do you count whipping out the 3/4G stick as Internet?
10:30<Flygon>You're boned, then
10:31<Rubidium>ah... so IC Berlin quality ;)
10:31<Flygon>The various Governments are simply too stingy to ever consider such an 'impossible' proposition
10:31<Flygon>How often does the IC Berlin run?
10:31<Rubidium>every two hours (for 6 or 7 times a day)
10:32<Flygon>(not that getting free internet on a VLocity isn't very difficult. Up to 3 3/4G hotspots can be found per railcar from Androids. Most use WEP and Telstra. :P)
10:32<Flygon>Only every two hours?
10:32<Flygon>That's not very good now
10:32<Flygon>Hell, the Bendigo, Ballarat, Traralgon, and Geelong VLocity services run hourly even
10:32<@planetmaker>Flygon, every two hours on that connection is not that bad really :)
10:32<Rubidium>well, IC Berlin is the intercity going from Amsterdam to Berlin
10:32<Flygon>And they run on a budget that makes North American soap operas seem like Hollywood blockbusters!
10:33<Flygon>planetmaker: Yes, but the issue is. You can't just walk up and ride
10:33<Flygon>If you juuuust miss that train, you're stuck with 2 hours of nothing to do
10:33<@planetmaker>IC Berlin? Yes, you can
10:33<Flygon>At least if it's an hour to the next train, you can walk to a Sushi bar, nom a bit, read a magazine, then board :p
10:33<@planetmaker>well. The alternative is like 8 to 9 hours car drive
10:33<Flygon>But, then again, I suspect it's a cultural thing
10:33<Flygon>Australians are absurdly impatient
10:34<Flygon>Part of the reason our Freeways are so congested. A lot of people are so Bus and Trainaphobic that they'll simply drive, even if it'll often take longer, just to get a 'guranteed' service
10:34<@planetmaker>and I doubt the rail tracks would allow for (much) more traffic ;)
10:34<Flygon>Same mentality as North Americans, really
10:34<Flygon>You guys don't have double track?
10:34<@planetmaker>yes. Only. That's the reason
10:35<Flygon>Ahh, Ballarat line situation then
10:35<@planetmaker>I know no major connection which is not double or even tripple tracked
10:35<Flygon>The reason the Ballarat line achieves an hourly service off-peak is due to V/Line abusing the hell out of good crossing loop timetabling, combined with big crossing loops
10:35<Rubidium>Flygon: we're talking about one 'connection' here. If you do not cross national borders, you won't find a train going less than once every 30 minutes
10:35<Flygon>To the point where you'll have one train passing at 130km/h, and another at 160km/h (long story)
10:35<@planetmaker>Flygon, berlin - amsterdam is like melborne - sydney. Do you have hourly service? :)
10:36<Flygon>I thought you meant only 300km away!!
10:36<Flygon>Okay, I fully understand now :)
10:36<Rubidium>Flygon: 300 km from Amsterdam and you're definitely abroad
10:36<Flygon>Sorry, being in the smallest state can skew impressions x3
10:36<Flygon>Okay, you're messing with my heads here
10:36<@planetmaker>Berlin is quite East in Germany
10:36<Flygon>This's what I get for living in the smallest mainland state, and still ending up bigger than Poland
10:37<Flygon>Also, the Melb-Syd XPT runs twice a day. Morning and Night
10:37<Flygon>But the XPT is terrible
10:37<Flygon>Most people just take a plane. They come every half hour to hour
10:37<Flygon>(there's a reason the Melb-Syd air corridore is so busy)
10:38<@planetmaker>Flygon, more planes likely wouldn't fit either on that route here :P
10:38<Rubidium>that blue line is also roughly along one of the main lines for trains, which ... well... has only 4 ICs and 4 stop trains per direction per hour
10:38<Flygon>That's a lot of trains
10:38<Rubidium>all ICs are double decker and maximum platform length
10:39<@planetmaker>well, Berlin - Amsterdam seems to be 655km
10:39<Rubidium>and they're currently spending loads and loads of money into making it a) 4 track, b) no level rail crossings, c) at least 6 ICs and 6 stop trains an hour
10:39<Flygon> Roughly along the line of the Bendigo RFR track here (Bendigo is one of the shorter RFR/HST lines. If you call a lot of sub-150km/h curves HST)
10:39<Flygon>Oh my god. Level crossings.
10:39<Flygon>Don't get me started on level crossings.
10:40<Eddi|zuHause> <Rubidium> I guess they beat in realiability compared to the latest Dutch HST acquisition <-- you mean those where the bottom drops out?
10:40<Rubidium>Flygon: I mean level crossings on the rail itself (not road crossings)
10:40<Flygon>It's thanks to level crossings that V/Line's got some major management headaches with level crossings
10:40<@planetmaker>so... still a bit less than Australia distances :D
10:40<@planetmaker>Flygon, how do they pose that? Automate them and done?
10:40<Flygon>All due to a crapload of idiots that don't understand that a train going 160km/h will PULVERIZE them
10:40<@planetmaker>make. create.
10:40<Flygon>Long story short
10:41<@planetmaker>(I know virtually no level crossing which doesn't close automatically)
10:41<Flygon>A VLocity hit a stone truck on a non-'protected' (only had flashing lights) level crossing going 130km/h
10:41<Flygon>It's the only fatal accident involving a VLocity HST in Victoria
10:41<@planetmaker>that's failure to build proper level crossings
10:41<Flygon>Now they're limited to 75km/h for entire railway lines
10:42<Flygon>The RFR lines themselves (the ones they've tested over 200km/h on) have automatically protected crossings, though
10:42<@planetmaker>I think here level crossings are for up to at least 160km/h
10:42<Flygon>The problem is
10:42<Flygon>Most level crossing accidents here seem to involve people running INTO the trains
10:42<Flygon>I could use many profanities for that sort of level of stupidity
10:42<Flygon>It's just... effing ridiculous
10:42<@planetmaker>Rubidium, are you planning a trip again? :)
10:43<Flygon> End result of a truck driver somehow completely missing he's approaching a (protected) level crossing
10:43<Rubidium>well, I intend to go that way somewhen
10:43<Pinkbeast>There was that vexing RAIB report recently where they failed to ascribe any causal factor to an idiot cager driving through level crossing barriers with the sun in their eyes.
10:43<Eddi|zuHause><planetmaker> I know no major connection which is not double or even tripple tracked <-- loads of connections have been reduced to single track for "economical efficence"
10:43<Flygon>If people just understood that level crossings must be observed, none of this would be a problem
10:44<@planetmaker>make sure you take one of those trains accross the continent, Rubidium :)
10:44<Flygon>Eddi: That was a problem here with the Bendigo line RFR upgrade
10:44<Rubidium>planetmaker: why?
10:44<Flygon>They singled parts of the track between Kyneton and Bendigo for the sake of 'efficiency'
10:44<@planetmaker>found it fun :)
10:44<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, not the major connections
10:44<@planetmaker>all secondary: sure
10:44<Flygon>The only discernable reason being that the loading gauge was a tad tight in the 1860 era tunnels
10:44<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: depends on what you call "major"
10:46<@planetmaker>berlin, munich, frankfurt, cologne, hamburg, hanovre, stuttgart, bremen. Those kind of destinations and lines in between
10:46<@planetmaker>where ICE run
10:46<@planetmaker>and onward to prague, paris, brussels, amsterdam, basel, kopenhagen, vienna, etc
10:46<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: for example Berlin-Cottbus-Görlitz(-Breslau) once was a "major" railway line. or {Kassel|Frankfurt}-Erfurt-Jena-Chemnitz-Dresden
10:47<Flygon>Also, a weird fact. The TGV isn't actually crash compliant in Victoria. It wouldn't be allowed to run over 115km/h without major modifications O_o
10:47<@planetmaker>emphasis on "was" ;)
10:47<Eddi|zuHause>the latter they have problems getting back to double track now
10:47<@planetmaker>Yes, I know the latter. It's rather a PITA to go that line
10:48<@planetmaker>why that, Flygon ?
10:48<@planetmaker>no ram bar? :D
10:48*Flygon shrug
10:48<Flygon>Same reason it can't run in the USA over a certain speed
10:48<Flygon>Just doesn't meet certain qualifications
10:49<Flygon>I don't know if the ICE or Shinkansen would have the same problems. Though, in all 'true' HST proposals here, the TGV's been used as a case point
10:49<__ln__>in france they're also limited to about 550 km/h
10:49<Flygon>Right down to suggested hardware
10:49<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: also {Hamburg|Bremen}-Uelzen-Stendal(-Berlin) (so-called "america line")
10:49<Flygon>As nice as it would be to use modified electric VLocity units as HST's. I'm not sure Electric-Hydralic transmission could break 225km/h
10:50<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: you find lots of places where the infrastructure is lacking, if you look for them
10:50<Flygon>Eddi: Understatement of the year
10:50<Flygon>Melbourne's Metro network stillhas large areas of single track
10:51<@planetmaker>of course one does.
10:51<Aristide>My favorite Subway is C Line <3
10:51<Aristide>In Lyon
10:51<@planetmaker>And it's argued again that the railway lines from the harbours are not up to the traffic expected in the forthcoming years
10:52<Eddi|zuHause>not to speak of the line Berlin-Dresden, which has to make a huge detour because the direct line (which was cut in 1952) has been rebuilt as metro line, incompatible with IC(E) service
10:52<Eddi|zuHause>i think the current "working solution" is to build a tunnel underneath which will take the long-distance line on that section
10:52<Rubidium>Flygon: why isn't it crash compliant? Level road crossings?
10:53<Flygon>Rubidium: Probably
10:53<Flygon>Even if the line was completely segregated, they'd probably want it to be as unkillable as the flying bricks here in an accident, simply just in case it goes on an RFR line or something
10:53<Rubidium>any high speed track (>140km/h) in the NLs cannot have road crossings
10:54<Rubidium>if it has road crossings, then it's <= 140km/h
10:54<Eddi|zuHause>in germany, 160 is the limit
10:54<Flygon>160km/h is suppose to be the limit here...
10:54<Aristide>What is ICE service Eddi|zuHause ?
10:54<Rubidium>even then... if it's > 140 km/h, it's ERTMS
10:54<@planetmaker>french call it tgv ;)
10:54<Flygon>But drivers are allowed 10% ospeed. And more than a few sets have been recorded hitting 180km/h in revenue service
10:54<Aristide>planetmaker: Ok :)
10:54<Eddi|zuHause>Aristide: Inter City Express, the highest train service in germany
10:55<@planetmaker>different manufacturer, different country
10:55<Flygon>I suspect they may've had the speed limiters accidentally disabled
10:55<Aristide>Eddi|zuHause: Ok
10:55<Aristide>ICE == TER (Transport Express Regional)
10:55<Rubidium>Aristide: nah...
10:55<Aristide>No ?
10:55<@planetmaker>err, no
10:55<@planetmaker>tgv serves in France what ICE serves in Germany
10:56<Aristide>I don't like « TGV » ... Too expensive
10:57<Rubidium>Aristide: it is, if you cost EUR 0 an hour
10:57<Aristide>The ticket price for train is ... Not very fix
10:57<Aristide>Many things change ticket price
10:58<Aristide>If you buy your ticket 3 months before departure, the ticket is cheap, but if you buy your ticket 3 days before departure, the price is not same
10:58<@planetmaker>the price is acceptable. Gets you places reasonably fast and comfortable
10:58<Aristide>I don't like this system
10:58<Flygon>Price is acceptable?
10:58<Aristide>Price is not acceptable
10:58<@planetmaker>unlike planes where the speed might be faster, but you have to commute ages to get downtown or so
10:58<Flygon>Can I get on a HST that'll take be 160km for just $7AUD? :D
10:59<@planetmaker>rather 70$AUD ;)
10:59<Aristide>Wait I calculate for Paris → Lyon
10:59<Flygon>(granted, most people pay $10-14AUD, but much bloody cheaper than European and Japanese pricing!!)
10:59<Eddi|zuHause>we have basically 4 train classes in germany: ICE: high-speed long distance trains, usually EMU, 200-300km/h. IC/EC: medium speed long distance trains (140-200 km/h), RE: medium-speed short distance service, few stops (<=160km/h), RB: low-speed short ditance service, lots of stops (<=160km/h)
10:59<@planetmaker>330km/h for ICE sprinter services ;)
10:59<Flygon>You guys have seperate classes?
11:00<Flygon>Here, it's all cattle! :D
11:00<Aristide>Ok, departure for go to Paris, tomorrow, at 17h
11:00*Aristide don't know price
11:00<Aristide>95€ :x
11:00<@planetmaker>Aristide, what's a cheaper way? :)
11:00<Pinkbeast>Flygon: is this speed of service vs. classes of seating inside the train?
11:00<Rubidium>Aristide: what's the cost of the ticket in second class for the TGV and the slow train if you want to go "now", and how long do they respectively take?
11:00<Aristide>Same travel, 2 months later
11:01<Aristide>42€ xD
11:01<Aristide>For 1h59
11:01<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: each train has 2 different classes in it, as well
11:01<Flygon>Pinkbeast: Seperate classes only exist for seating here. And that's for select long distance N-sets. Or: Locomotive hauled.
11:01<Aristide>2nd class
11:01<Flygon>Speed classes are non-existant
11:01<Aristide>I have selected 2nd class for search
11:01<Aristide>But SNCF website search for TGV and TER
11:02<Flygon>(I wish they'd replace the N-class locos on the N-sets with AN-class locos. 145km/h speed limit instead of 115km/h...)
11:02<Pinkbeast>IIRC Japan does a lot of that, where you've got shinkansen and ordinary trains doing the same journey and you buy a ticket for a given speed
11:02<Flygon>(most RFR line curves tend to be 130-150km/h anyway)
11:02<@planetmaker>Flygon, yes, classes as in comfort. But there's also different kind of train services. Which Eddi|zuHause called classes
11:02<Flygon>Yeah, I'm aware
11:02<Flygon>I just wasn't aware it was an outside-of-Japan thing
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11:03<Aristide>98€ tomorrow and 42€ at the same hour 2 months later
11:03<Aristide>For same travel
11:03<Aristide>Fucking variations
11:03<Eddi|zuHause>there is IIRC a fixed price you pay independent of distance, if you want to go ICE instead of IC
11:03<Rubidium>hmm... so, if I want to go from Lyon to Paris tomorrow morning. I can choose the TGV for EUR 95 and about 2 hours, or the TER for EUR 64 and 5 hours
11:03<Pinkbeast>It is accidentally here (UK) where the farce of privatisation gives you per-operator tickets.
11:03<Aristide>Rubidium: :')
11:03<Aristide>Rubidium: Its logic :')
11:03<Pinkbeast>And on some routes there's >1 operator with different speeds.
11:03<Flygon>Thing is, it'd be impossible to implement split pricing anyway based on the speed of train. If it happened, nobody would ride the fast train and the Government would have to write off the investment. We're all cheapasses in Australia. :|
11:03<@planetmaker>Aristide, it's without irony logical...
11:04<Rubidium>now on the 3rd of March the times are the same, but the TGV price drops from 95 to EUR 42-57
11:04<Eddi|zuHause>so if Berlin-Dresden costs 50€ for the distance, ICE will cost 60€, and if Berlin-München costs 200€, Berlin-München in ICE costs 210€ (prices are examples only, not real prices)
11:04<Aristide>Rubidium: Yes
11:05<Rubidium>I think I'll take the TGV; I think 3 hours more in Paris is worth EUR 10/hr (after all, a hotel costs more than EUR 10/hr)
11:05<Rubidium>even then... for fun I did it from Amsterdam to Paris
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11:06<Rubidium>a whopping EUR 130 for the Thalys (TGV PB(K)A), or a mere EUR 420 for the night train
11:06<Rubidium>(apparantly they don't want that you go by normal train)
11:06<Flygon>(train fares are so cheap here, people've actually ridden the V/Line for free airconditioning :P)
11:06<Aristide>I don't now if IDbus go to Amsterdam
11:07<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: one of the problems is, the pricing is only for what the train is called, not what speed it actually takes. so if you go from Köln to Düsseldorf, you can take the RE, the IC, or the ICE, each one will take roughly the same time, but prices are different
11:07<Flygon>That's a silly system
11:07<Eddi|zuHause>Köln to Düsseldorf is a rather short distance
11:07<Rubidium>anyhow, since $BOSS pays for my trips to Paris, they happily pay the extra money the Thalys from Amsterdam costs compared from getting me with the cheap and slow train to Brussels and then onto the Thalys
11:08<Flygon>Differentiating the price still seems silly
11:08<Aristide>So, Rubidium 49€ with bus for Paris > Amsterdam
11:08<Flygon>A better system would be to have the lower seating HST's simply not pick up passengers in suburban stations
11:08<Aristide>6 hours and 45 Minutes
11:08<Rubidium>how close to Gare du Nord does that start?
11:08<Flygon>The system applies here with V/Line on most V/Line lines, bar select stations that can take both suburban and metro passengers
11:08<Aristide> :')
11:08<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: well part of the pricing system is that the RE is government funded, while the IC and ICE have to be self-sufficient
11:09<Flygon>That explains a lot, then
11:09<Rubidium>Aristide: so add another 45 minutes to get from Gare du Nord to there
11:09<Aristide>I don't know Paris for hours and time to travel
11:10<Aristide>I Know « Gare Part Dieu » in Lyon xD
11:10<Flygon>Eddi, I should note, part of the reason V/Line refuse to pick up passengers in most suburban stations is because they share the same lines as the electrics (part of the reason they're designed to accelerate as fast as, or out-accelerate them, btw). And Metro will crack the sads if V/Line are at all late.
11:10<Flygon>This's frustrating when you realize Metro actually manage segments of HST track.
11:10<Aristide>(Subway B, and Tramway T1, T3 and T4, bus C1 C2 C3 C6 C9 C13 C25 25 37 38 70 198 296 and C7
11:10<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: where the "self-sufficient" part is disputed, because making that a rule has led to cutting off several minor cities from the long-distance network
11:11<Rubidium>makes 7:30, then an 1:30 to get from Amsterdam to my home, versus just under 4:00
11:11<Flygon>So it's normal for a VLocity to be held up by a Comeng struggling to break 90km/h on a track that's 160km/h certified, and handled 200km/h with ease.
11:11<Eddi|zuHause>between the RE and the IC there used to be a "IR" network, which served longer distances than the RE, at cheaper prices than the IC
11:11<Flygon>You got me listening
11:12<Rubidium>now imagine my meeting ends at 16:00, I can get home by Thalys. I can't by bus, so I need a hotel... add EUR 100, and voila Thalys is cheaper
11:12<Aristide>So, for subway here : 1.70 EUR (Bus, subway, tram, trolleybus, funicular) for 1h
11:12<Aristide>And 2 EUR with bus for 40km (Lyon > Saint Martin en Haut)
11:13<Aristide>For price, bus is better than train
11:13<Aristide>But train is faster than bus
11:13<Eddi|zuHause>they have invented a hybrid model now, where they pay partial routes of an IC as if it were an RE
11:14<Eddi|zuHause>so they have an IC Bremen-Hannover-Magdeburg-Leipzig, and they said "if you add Oldenburg-Bremen to that, we pay that part as if it were an RE"
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11:15<Eddi|zuHause>meaning on that part of the route, the people will pay RE prices, and if they go longer than that, they pay IC prices
11:15<Pinkbeast>How confusing.
11:15<Eddi|zuHause>same model they will do on the line Kassel-Erfurt-Jena-Gera, where between Erfurt and Gera you can pay RE prices
11:15<Flygon>Soo basically
11:15<@planetmaker>those prices are not exactly understandable anyway. You just use the website, enter departure and arrival stations and get connections with prices
11:15<Flygon>You pay suburban for part of the trip
11:16<@planetmaker>could as well be random ;)
11:16<Flygon>And you pay regional for part of the trip?
11:16<@planetmaker>Flygon, it's not exactly sub-urban ;)
11:16*Flygon shrug
11:16<@planetmaker>except maybe by australian distance scale. then yes
11:16<Flygon>Pakenham is waaaay far out of Melbourne, but it's still inside zone 2
11:16<@planetmaker>(without irony actually yes)
11:16<Flygon>...lemme google this
11:17<Eddi|zuHause>in theory, there is a "regional" price (<50km(, and there is a "long-distance price" (>50km)
11:17<Flygon>Pakenham is 61km away from Melbourne.
11:17<Eddi|zuHause>the praxis is slightly different and more complicated
11:17<Flygon>And it's still serviced by subway cars :D
11:17<Flygon>Fares work here by zones. For each zone you travel through, you get charged an additional fee
11:18<Eddi|zuHause>yes, the "regional" prices are often covered by such zones as well
11:18<Eddi|zuHause>but not always
11:18<Flygon>And you get 2 hours free travel within any zones after you've touched off (we use an Oyster card-like system here. Except it's near state-wide)
11:18<Flygon>(it's called myki. Don't say the word in public. You'll get a dirty look)
11:18<Eddi|zuHause>but each region has its own zone system
11:19<Flygon>That seems inefficient
11:19<Eddi|zuHause>so Erfurt has a zone system, and Jena has a zone system, but you cannot go from Erfurt to Jena because the zones are not compatible
11:19<Flygon>The issue exists here too
11:19<Flygon>You can use myki for any RFR/HST trips and suburban trips (and mix thereof) here
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11:20<Flygon>But regional coaches/trains (further out than Bendigo, Ballarat, Geelong, Traralgon, and Seymour (Seymour lacks a HST/RFR line, but gets the HST's for acceleration reasons. Never thought I'd say that in my life) are a good marker) can't use myki
11:21<Flygon>Due to a combination of beaurocratic nonsense, and the fact some of them cross state lines
11:21<Eddi|zuHause>and then it gets really complicated, because there are "special offer" prices. like in long-distance services, you can get prices of 19€ or 29€ independent of distance, if you order at least 3 days ahead and define which exact train you are taking
11:21<Flygon>eg. the Melbourne-Adelaide coach, if mykiized, would present the awkward situation where the coach station in Adelaide would require both myki and Metrocard machines to be near-adjacent to each other
11:22<Flygon>Granted, it wouldn't be impossible to get firmware in a machine that allows both
11:22<Flygon>But, beaurocracy
11:22<Eddi|zuHause>or you can pay like 40€ and can go everywhere in germany, if you say you only use short-distance trains (RE, RB)
11:23<Flygon>Oh! By the way #openttd
11:23<Flygon>For the next three years
11:23<Flygon>If you see ANYTHING said by the Australian Prime Minister on TV
11:23<Flygon>Ignore it. The dude's a budgiesmuggler wearing bean counter that once got into a brawl with Captain Planet on Q&A, a political talk show
11:23<Flygon>The last part might be a half-truth
11:24<Flygon>I gotta sleep
11:24<Flygon>Night y'all!
11:24<Eddi|zuHause>is that different from any other prime minister in this world?
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11:24<Pinkbeast>I'm sure Cameron doesn't wear budgie smugglers.
11:25<Eddi|zuHause>not entirely sure what that is
11:25<Pinkbeast>A tight small gentleman's swimming costume.
11:41<Aristide>Ok a other extension of subway line B in Lyon is planned ...
11:41<Aristide>Where TCL get enought founds ? xD
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11:43<Eddi|zuHause>well we have a brand new "subway" here as well :)
11:44<Eddi|zuHause>well, technically, it's a short underground section of the normal railway
11:44<Eddi|zuHause>with 4 underground stations
11:48<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26205 /trunk (9 files in 3 dirs) (2014-01-02 16:48:16 UTC)
11:48<@DorpsGek>-Feature: SSE 4.1 sprite sorter, improving the sorting performance significantly (MJP)
11:48<@DorpsGek>For example with GCC 4.8, x86_64 Linux, Intel i5-3337U this patch improves the performance of Pile, Treham and Hamac test save games by about 10% in over-all run time at fast forward at 1920x1080 when zoomed out and when trees are not disabled.
11:48<Aristide>Here, we have many extensions of Subway B (one new Station « Gare d'Oullins » : 1,8km of rails : 200 000 000 EUR :x) many extensions on tramways T1, T2, T4 and T5
11:49<Eddi|zuHause>this underground section is 1,4km, i think
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11:50<Aristide>Subway is expensive to install, but you can travel lot of people
11:50<Aristide>Its cool, 20 000 New users per day are estimated for new extension
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11:51<Aristide>So, its time to go to shower o/
11:51<Eddi|zuHause>well i don't know about passenger numbers, but they currently have problems with timetable stability, because the trains often get delays on the (mixed service) outer tracks
11:52<Eddi|zuHause>and the tunnel section will be disturbed for anything more than 2 minutes delay
11:52<Eddi|zuHause>transferring the delay to all lines which use the tunnel
11:53<Eddi|zuHause>and apparently they don't have enough buffer at the end stations to catch up either
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11:59<Eddi|zuHause>Aristide: here's a nice overview, the tunnel stations are somewhere in the middle:,6706612
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12:14<Aristide>S == Berlin ?
12:14<Aristide>SBahn ?
12:14<Aristide>I speak about Eddi|zuHause link ^^
12:14<Aristide>I know SRing ^^
12:14<Eddi|zuHause>this is Leipzig
12:14<Aristide>Don't know
12:14<@planetmaker>SBahn means something like metro
12:15<Eddi|zuHause>Leipzig is the second biggest town in east germany
12:15<Eddi|zuHause>unless it is temporarily surpassed by Dresden
12:15<Pinkbeast>Oh, I saw they'd finally finished the tunnel.
12:16<Aristide>So, the future of T1 Extension :
12:17<Pinkbeast>Ah, and last time we were in Leipzig the tram museum was open! Very jolly.
12:18<Aristide>A tram musem ?
12:18<Aristide>Can be fun to visit that
12:19<Eddi|zuHause>that bridge looks too narrow for these trams
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12:20<Aristide>Eddi|zuHause: No, bridge has already installed
12:20<Aristide>Sytral is building rails before and after bridge nwo
12:21<Aristide>... What ? Rails are already build sorry x)
12:22<Aristide> Huhu
12:25<Aristide>25h for install bridge xD
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12:25<Aristide>Hi Matulla
12:25<Matulla>Hi all and happy new Year
12:25<Aristide>Thanks you, you too
12:25<Matulla>questio is there a reson why in the world most train services are left liines
12:26<Pinkbeast>Perhaps because the locomotive was invented in the UK?
12:29<Matulla>ok i will start today my game 2014 wihin2048 fields and try first time left trains maybe i will runn soon int troubel
12:30<Eddi|zuHause>all the trains i ever used were right hand
12:31<Matulla>i 2
12:32<Matulla>game 2013 desert lasted 38 game years as i offen use F1 and not playing alot but connected all stations and reconstructed 20% of the rail to a higher value
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12:48<frosch123>Hmm, is there a wiki page / fs task / forum thread about towns not growing when the center is bulldozed?
12:50<Matulla>bulldozing the center is like tey now do in mecca with the caba no more pilgrem !
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12:55<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure there are plenty of forum threads
12:56<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26206 /trunk/src (ini_load.cpp table/gameopt_settings.ini) (2014-01-02 17:55:57 UTC)
12:56<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5829]: Run everything from ini, obg, obs, obs, ... files through str_validate.
12:56<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: that's what i thought
12:56<frosch123>but it seems to be one of those questions which is not answered in a central place
12:57<frosch123>but only by oral tradition
12:57<Eddi|zuHause>someone once mentioned that there's now like a nxn area checked, but i never got round to actually reading up on this
12:59<frosch123>looks radius of 2 around town center
13:01<@planetmaker>last time I looked the central 5x5 area was it
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13:01<frosch123>14 tiles
13:01<frosch123>no, 13
13:02<frosch123>so, manhattan distance 2
13:03<@planetmaker>oh, manhatten
13:09<Eddi|zuHause>that doesn't sound very useful
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13:10<Eddi|zuHause>maybe there should be a larger area to be searched in infrequent intervals, and the result cached
13:14<frosch123>you could use the town sign position as "cache"
13:14<@planetmaker>:D jumping town signs
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13:52<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26207 /trunk/src (3 files) (2014-01-02 18:52:54 UTC)
13:53<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: move the CPUID flag detection into cpu.cpp
14:03<George>Rubidium: Wowan reports he got problems with xUSSR set entry on bananas. He can't see history
14:04<George>planetmaker: According to our last discussion about railway types
14:04<George>Rubidium: His screen
14:05<George>planetmaker: In case that definition works ... would the current type test work?
14:06<George>for example, I have EMU ESV1
14:06<Rubidium>George: I have no idea, an no idea what would/could be wrong; I'm not the guy behind that part of bananas
14:07<George>Rubidium: And whom could I ask for help?
14:08<George>planetmaker: wagon #2 operates on DC, wagon #3 operates on AC. Currently active wagon has different graphics
14:08<Rubidium>George: maybe TB
14:18<Eddi|zuHause>George: Var 4A has "vehicle is powered on current railtype" bit
14:18<Eddi|zuHause>George: that works for all railtypes, even if they are not in your translation table
14:18<George>Eddi|zuHause: wrong, because the whole train is marked as ac|dc (dual)
14:19<Eddi|zuHause>George: this is for each wagon, not the whole train
14:20<George>the EVS1 is coded as a articulted vehicle of length 10
14:20<Eddi|zuHause>then it gets tricky
14:20<Eddi|zuHause>because articulated parts can (unfortunately) not have different power types
14:21<George>it would be silly to buy part of a train in AC depot, move it with some diesel train to DC depot and assemble the whole train
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>then you have to rely on that the railtype is in your railtype translation table
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>which mean your detection will not work on unknown types (sets that will be relased in the future)
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>George: the low byte of var 4A contains the index of your translation table
14:23<George>Yes, I know how to make it work with our own tracks
14:24<Eddi|zuHause> y<
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>this may be the solution
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>so with action 6/7/9/D you'd make a list of the currently defined railtypes, whether they provide AC or DC types, and then you can compare against this list (stored in parameter)
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16:06<NGC3982>Generating a 2048^2 map with my old P4 server was something special.
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16:28<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26208 trunk/src/cpu.cpp (2014-01-02 21:28:40 UTC)
16:28<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r26197): the cpuid assembly didn't work when PIC was enabled
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16:54<Eddi|zuHause>NGC3982: gets more fun with ECS
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17:06<NGC3982>Eddi|zuHause: That, it was.
17:06<NGC3982>And i couldn't even join.
17:06<NGC3982>I started a 1024^2 map instead that seems to work.
17:07<NGC3982>NGC's #5.
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17:42<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26209 /trunk/src (28 files in 6 dirs) (2014-01-02 22:41:58 UTC)
17:42<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: remove some template magic and simplify some code
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17:48<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26210 trunk/src/blitter/factory.hpp (2014-01-02 22:48:32 UTC)
17:48<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: add infrastructure for not registering a blitter
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18:12<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26211 /trunk (8 files in 4 dirs) (2014-01-02 23:12:32 UTC)
18:12<@DorpsGek>-Add: specialised non-animated SS2 blitter (MJP)
18:12<@DorpsGek>With 32bpp base set about 30% faster than 32bpp-optimized, or about 10% for 8bpp base sets in the Draw function. Respectively about 5 and 1% of total run time
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18:17<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26212 /trunk (7 files in 3 dirs) (2014-01-02 23:17:01 UTC)
18:17<@DorpsGek>-Add: specialised non-animated SSSE3 blitter (MJP)
18:17<@DorpsGek>With 32bpp base set about 35% faster than 32bpp-optimized, or about 10% for 8bpp base sets in the Draw function. Respectively about 6 and 1% of total run time
18:20<frosch123>you cannot compensate a missing E by adding an S
18:21<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26213 /trunk (7 files in 3 dirs) (2014-01-02 23:21:07 UTC)
18:21<@DorpsGek>-Add: specialised non-animated SSE4 blitter (MJP)
18:21<@DorpsGek>With 32bpp base set about 40% faster than 32bpp-optimized, or about 10% for 8bpp base sets in the Draw function. Respectively about 8 and 1% of total run time
18:22<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: did we ever discuss whether signs of companies should be removed on bankruptcy?
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18:24<Eddi|zuHause>why would i discuss such stuff?
18:25<@planetmaker>you're crazy enough to discuss lots of random things :D
18:25<frosch123>i am just referring to you as the index of this channel
18:25<Eddi|zuHause>i'd ask zuu :)
18:25<@planetmaker>@seen zuu
18:25<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: zuu was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 2 days, 12 hours, 34 minutes, and 11 seconds ago: <Zuu> Hello LordAro
18:25<frosch123>yeah, that would have been my next try
18:26*LordAro appears
18:26<LordAro>shush, DorpsGek :p
18:26*planetmaker waves
18:26<LordAro>o/ planetmaker
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18:26<@planetmaker>frosch123, it's a good question :)
18:28<frosch123>which one?
18:28<@planetmaker>I can see reason to say 'remove company signs upon bancruptcy': consider a server and a person abusing his company by putting many abusive signs
18:28<frosch123>the meta question i started with? or the follow up one?
18:28<LordAro>planetmaker: iirc, it got annoying when testing AIs, too
18:28<frosch123>planetmaker: yup, i also wondered about multiplayer
18:28<@planetmaker>LordAro, what got annoying?
18:29<frosch123>LordAro: zuu added hide opponent signs
18:29<@planetmaker>keeping or deleting them?
18:29<frosch123>but that does not trigger for bankrupt ones
18:29<LordAro>planetmaker: both
18:29<LordAro>epsecially when multiple signs were over the same tile
18:30<Eddi|zuHause>i do remember that from the one game i played with AIs
18:31<Eddi|zuHause>well technically there were two
18:31<Eddi|zuHause>one was an old one i loaded from TTO
18:31<Eddi|zuHause>and another one where i was basically only watching the AIs
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18:34<LordAro>Rubidium: i have no clue about the system, but shouldn't '#include "smmintrin.h"' use '<>' as the file isn't actually in the same folder?
18:36<Rubidium>I really have no clue anymore
18:36<frosch123>the behaviour of "" vs <> is undefined and compiler specific
18:37<frosch123>some compilers apply different search paths
18:37<frosch123>some even consider missing include files as warning for <> and error for ""
18:38<@planetmaker>warn on missing include seems... interesting
18:39<frosch123>it can make configure life easier
18:39<frosch123>if some systems require a header which other systems do not have, you can include it with the warning-thingie
18:40<@planetmaker>hm, true :)
18:40<Eddi|zuHause>sounds like a bad idea
18:40<frosch123>yup, but easy :p
18:40<frosch123>fast to ship, andy would buy it :)
18:40<LordAro>on this windows system (VS 2013), it errors on missing <> include
18:41<frosch123>i know the warning vs error thingie from gcc 4.1
18:41<LordAro>and it's generally recommended (afaik) to use <> for files not in the immediate filepath
18:41<frosch123>no idea how it is now :p
18:41<LordAro>e.g. #include<SDL.h>
18:42<frosch123>i would reword that to: use <> for external stuff, and "" for your own headers
18:43<frosch123>so ottd would use "" for stuff in /core and /script and such as well
18:43<frosch123>immediate filepath is a weird term
18:43<LordAro>that is indeed what i meant
18:43<LordAro>English people cannot use English properly, go figure :p
18:44<frosch123>i know, but that holds for all native speakers wrt. their native language
18:45<frosch123>that's why all non-english forums / social networks are dieing
18:45<frosch123>in countries where at least some people know english
18:45<frosch123>__ln__: isn't that colouring?
18:46<Eddi|zuHause>maybe they should try dyeing
18:46<__ln__>frosch123: it's probably that too
18:46<@planetmaker>which colour, Eddi|zuHause ? ;D
18:46<Eddi|zuHause>blond seems popular
18:46<LordAro> :p
18:47<@planetmaker>oh, boring :)
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>i'm very boring
18:48<__ln__>frosch123: similarly to how "lying on the floor" can mean either that somebody lies or somebody lies.
18:48<Eddi|zuHause>and i'm not sure my recolouring code is actually working
18:48<frosch123>planetmaker: dying is dyeing in blood
18:48<frosch123>s/in/with/ prolly
18:49<@planetmaker>that doesn't give a blonde colour, though
18:49<frosch123>depends on the species
18:50<frosch123>__ln__: Eddi|zuHause: which alien form does have blond blood?
18:51<Eddi|zuHause>never encountered any
18:51<Eddi|zuHause>most times it's blue, green, white or black
18:52<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26214 /trunk (13 files in 3 dirs) (2014-01-02 23:52:13 UTC)
18:52<@DorpsGek>-Add: specialised animated SSE4 blitter (MJP)
18:52<@DorpsGek>With 32bpp base set about 15-20% faster in the Draw function (slower with 8bpp base set). Overall, with 32bpp base set, about 5% faster.
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19:05<@planetmaker>late enough. Good night everyone :)
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---Logclosed Fri Jan 03 00:00:06 2014