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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-01-09

---Logopened Thu Jan 09 00:00:17 2014
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04:38<Burty>Is there any way to change a push button text when it's clicked?
04:40<Eddi|zuHause>tried the station window?
04:41<Burty>I knew there was a window that did it. I couldn't think (damn work) Thanks Eddi, I'll look at the station and vehicle windows :)
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05:05<Xaroth|Work>o/ dih
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05:10<dihedral>Xaroth|Work, \o
05:10<Xaroth|Work>dih: started yet another admin port lib :P
05:11<Xaroth|Work>this one does a bit more tho :P
05:14<dihedral>show me :-)
05:15<dihedral>Xaroth|Work, not interested in helping me?
05:15<@planetmaker>Xaroth, yet another? :)
05:15<@planetmaker>libottdadmin3 or...?
05:16<dihedral>grapes, joan, ...
05:16<@planetmaker>what does it more than libottdadmin(2)?
05:16<dihedral>planetmaker, every piece of software can do with a complete overhaul :-)
05:17<@planetmaker>and thus become better like Netscape 6 was better than 5? :D
05:18<Xaroth|Work>dihedral: I'm a python man :)
05:18<Xaroth|Work>the goal is to (eventually) implement all protocols
05:18<Xaroth|Work>already got admin protocol and query protocol implemented
05:19<dihedral>Xaroth|Work, how about integrating jpython :-P
05:19<Xaroth|Work>dihedral: that's like watching the devil hump an angel :P
05:20<dihedral>perspective defines devil and angel in this case :-D
05:20<Xaroth|Work>however, there's one thing that might help joan
05:20<Xaroth|Work>dihedral: exactly :)
05:20<dihedral>tell me
05:20<Xaroth|Work>libopenttd's packet system can both encode and decode packets of any type
05:20<Xaroth|Work>so we can use each other's libs to verify the working of the protocols
05:20<dihedral>uh :-)
05:21<Xaroth|Work>(I managed to get a VERY crude set-up done where libopenttd was a proxy for libottdadmin2 :P )
05:22<Xaroth|Work>also, the design of libopenttd is so that it should also be somewhat readable in terms of how the protocol is encoded
05:23<Xaroth|Work> << that should read a lot easier than digging through openttd's netcode to find out what a packet consists of
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05:25<dihedral>the comments in openttd's source code should decribe that very well actually
05:25<@planetmaker>Xaroth, what other protocols than admin port?
05:25<dihedral>and if they do not, they should be amended
05:26<Xaroth|Work>planetmaker: query
05:26<Xaroth|Work>planetmaker: check the example dir, it's basically a server listing script
05:26<dihedral>udp packets - e.g. my php stuff
05:26<Xaroth|Work>but, in effect, can also act as if it were a master server, as it can receive the packets as well :)
05:27<Xaroth|Work>if one was mad enough to code it
05:27<dihedral>but for what purpose? :-P
05:28<Xaroth|Work>since when do we need a purpose? :)
05:28<dihedral>why would you want to setup your own master :-P
05:28<peter1139>For when OpenTTD becomes Evil.
05:28<dihedral>well that is true
05:28<Xaroth|Work>I'm just providing the tool to do it, not the reason for it :)
05:28<dihedral>that is only the case though if TrueBrain replaces Rubidium :-P
05:29<dihedral>or __ln__ :-P
05:29<dihedral>or our swiss friend :-D
05:29<Xaroth|Work>trying to get yourself kicked? :P
05:29*dihedral pokes Ammler
05:29<dihedral>are we not long past that stage?
05:29<Xaroth|Work>true that
05:30<@planetmaker>if you are successful in that, dihedral, that'll be his first appearence in a year or so
05:30<@planetmaker>(with the poke)
05:30-!-mode/#openttd [+o Xaroth|Work] by DorpsGek
05:30<dihedral>thanks TB
05:30<__ln__>@seen Ammler
05:30<@DorpsGek>__ln__: Ammler was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 1 day, 12 hours, 30 minutes, and 9 seconds ago: <Ammler> happy crhistmas Eddi :-)
05:31-!-mode/#openttd [-o Xaroth|Work] by DorpsGek
05:31*Xaroth|Work waits for it
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05:31<Eddi|zuHause>but i never got an answer
05:32<Xaroth|Work>I shouldn't tease TrueBrain :|
05:32<dihedral>Xaroth|Work, case rested :-P
05:32<Xaroth|Work>I think he wanted me to do his dirty job for him
05:32<Xaroth|Work>then realising i didn't.. took it out on me :(
05:33<dihedral>Xaroth|Work, we should make sure our bots can work together ;-)
05:33<Xaroth|Work>what bot? :P
05:34<dihedral>your py stuff and my java stuff
05:34<Xaroth|Work>that should be easy
05:34<dihedral>it could be awesome :-)
05:35<Xaroth|Work>if libopenttd can write it, it can read the same format (or should, at least), so it's just a matter of having the systems talk to eachother during a test session
05:36<Xaroth|Work>create a packet, send it to your lib, if it can parse the data, send it straight back, if the decoded data is the same as the sent, it works
05:37<dihedral>i mean - have both connected to the same server ...
05:37<Xaroth|Work>how would that not work?
05:38<dihedral>or to two different servers, but have a same basis for certain operations - e.g. a db
05:38<Xaroth|Work>ah, that bit, er, hmm
05:38<Xaroth|Work>libopenttd is just the implementation; i haven't thought of any real case uses
05:38<dihedral>i would love to implement a bank - cross game finances :-P
05:39<dihedral>different shares stuff, etc.
05:39<dihedral>stash cash into a 'bank' and get it back in another game :-D
05:39<__ln__>or real-world bank
05:40<dihedral>stock market :-D
05:40<Xaroth|Work>__ln__: like bitcoins? :p
05:40<__ln__>something like that
05:40<dihedral>or - paypal me 5$ for 500.000$ in game :-D
05:40<dihedral>ok 5m$
05:40<Xaroth|Work>nah, have an in-game market
05:40<Xaroth|Work>where people can auction off their currency
05:41<Xaroth|Work>so others can buy it
05:41<Xaroth|Work>ofcourse I get a nice 5% share of it.
05:41<Xaroth|Work>that would only work with a killer difficulty economy though
05:43<dihedral>aye - e.g. a lovely gs in place
05:44<Xaroth|Work>that would actually be quite funny :o
05:44<Xaroth|Work>might need some tweaking though :P
05:47<dihedral>or create a stock market based on industries and transported goods, companies and their standings in towns, etc.
05:47<dihedral>or if they were caught bribing
05:47<dihedral>well - that actually does influence anyway
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06:28<NGC3982>T'aint it?
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07:55<Flygon>One thing I hate
07:56<Flygon>Planning a route when there's a lot of scattered cities
07:56<Flygon>OCD is evuul
08:02<Xaroth|Work>how is that OCD?
08:03<Japa_>Xaroth, can't do a straight, efficient, route
08:05<Flygon>Japa_: More to the fact
08:05<Flygon>I want to cover everything
08:06<Flygon>And it makes planning an efficient route a huuuuuuuge PITA
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08:08<LordAro>not really OCD though, is it?
08:08<LordAro>or, it's an extremely mild form of it
08:10<Flygon>I don't know what the right term is
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08:12<LordAro>"picky" :p
08:12<LordAro>or, "nOCD" as i've seen used
08:13<V453000>make the towns grow over the whole area so they touch each other, done
08:13<Flygon>That just means that it's even harder to service individual towns/suburbs
08:15<Pinkbeast>Implement a proper underground view so the towns aren't in the way so much HO HO
08:16<Flygon>Yes, but that'd need actual effort :P
08:16<V453000>well the idea is that you transfer all of the passengers from all of those towns to one large intercity terminal, which is connected to another intercity terminal connected to another town cluster
08:16<Flygon>V453000: The issue with that is, is that it's somewhat inefficient
08:17<Flygon>And can create gigantic chokepoints
08:17<V453000>sounds quite systematic to me
08:17<Pinkbeast>... and assumes you don't get cognitive dissonance from the pre-cargod*st situation where passengers have no volition
08:17<Flygon>You end up with passengers travelling longer distances to go somewhere closeby
08:17<V453000>oh cargodist
08:17<Flygon>And yeah, I'm using cargodist
08:17<V453000>:D:D:D:D enough said
08:18<Flygon>And on top of that, I actually did have some interchanges built early on
08:18<Flygon>But it's really biting my ass now
08:18<Flygon>Partially because it's not RORO based, and partially because the pathfinder is an idiot and keeps switching to the correct side of the track far ahead enough to block other trains
08:18<Flygon>Which's stupid
08:19<V453000>pathfinder is consistent, perhaps you built it badly in order to do what you want
08:21<Flygon> The hope here is
08:22<Flygon>Is that the metro systems and trams in Helsinki can spread the passenger load for the radial 'HST' line across the Helsinki, Riihimaki, Lahti, and Helsinki East statons
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08:22<Flygon>...the urban sprawl grew a tad much
08:23<V453000>well perhaps it is worth it making some bridges there so that there are less crossings
08:23<V453000>obviously the pathfinder cant do much magic in that clutter
08:23<Flygon>I'd consider it if it weren't for space constraints
08:23<V453000>there is way enough space for that
08:23<Flygon>You are clearly a far more efficient man than I am
08:24<Flygon>Australia's not known for it's trains :P
08:24<V453000>but that doesnt matter :)
08:24<V453000>australia has nothing to do with it :)
08:25<Flygon>I just fixed one of the pathfinder jams by building 2 tiles of track
08:27<Aristide>I have take a Hybrid bus today \o/
08:27<Flygon>Heya Aristide!
08:27<Aristide>Hi Flygon o/
08:27<Flygon>Lemme guess
08:27<Flygon>It's gas powered too? D:
08:27<Flygon>Gas powered buses scare me D:
08:28<Flygon>Maintainence costs.
08:28<Aristide>I don't know xD
08:28<Aristide>40% more expensive than « normal » bus
08:28<Flygon>And that's why gas is just a shill to appease greenies
08:28<Aristide> Flygon
08:28<Flygon>This is why I voted for the Sex Party, not the Greens :|
08:29<Flygon> It sounds far more risque than it really is
08:32<Flygon>The weird thing is
08:32<Flygon>Is that they're the 2nd most likely party to actually support rail transport here O_o
08:32<Flygon>...the 1st being the Bullet Train Party
08:53<Aristide> <3
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09:08<Flygon>I'm guessing there's no way to uncap the vehicles per company limits?
09:08<Flygon>I've got enough Trams that I'm hitting over 3,000
09:08<Flygon>And I'm expecting to hit 5,000 before even half the map is done
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09:10<V453000>-> stupidly big map perhaps? (:
09:11<Flygon>That German 2048*2048 Europe scenario
09:11<V453000>exactly what I said
09:11<Flygon>Stupidly big is 8192*8192 :P
09:11<V453000>256x256 is imo enough for one person, I had 5000 road vehicles on 256x256 without big problems
09:11<V453000>512x512 is reasonable maximum really
09:12<Flygon>Yes, but it doesn't give you a semi-realistic Europe :P
09:12<Flygon>What's REALLY lagging out the PC is the BOATS
09:12<V453000>why would i need that
09:12<Flygon>Why not?
09:12<Flygon>This's a long term project for me
09:12<V453000>cause the normal generator makes interesting things by itself
09:13<Flygon>I'm an uninteresting man :P
09:14<Pinkbeast>*rolls eyes* maybe Flygon just wants to play in a reasonable facsimile of Europe
09:14<Flygon>I worry about Australia maps
09:14<Flygon>Where the interesting transport networks are
09:15<Flygon>Are in very dense urban areas that countrywide maps don't show
09:15<Superuser>I thought I was in #osm for a second, lol
09:16<Flygon>OSM are an optometrist company here
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09:46<__ln__>hola Belugas
09:47<@Belugas>Ola __ln__! Como esta?
09:49<Eddi|zuHause>i could correct half a dozen errors in that :)
09:52<__ln__>bien, gracias. estoy esperando a invierno, solamente tenemos lluvia y nubes, ningún nieve
09:56<dihedral>@topic get 5
09:56<@DorpsGek>dihedral: English only
10:02<Eddi|zuHause>"ningún nieve" <-- Belugas would certainly like that :)
10:05<@Belugas>yeh Eddi|zuHause!
10:05<@Belugas>jmexcuse, dihedral, je parlerai qu'anglais les prochaines fois hahahah!!
10:07<Eddi|zuHause>that can't be proper grammar either
10:09<dihedral>hey ho Belugas - happy new year to you ;-)
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10:17<Flygon>Dumb question
10:17<Eddi|zuHause>dumb answer
10:17<Flygon>Is there a list for when eGRVTS 2 vehicles are introduced?
10:17<Flygon>If there is one, I can't find it
10:17<Eddi|zuHause>is there a readme?
10:18<Eddi|zuHause>then you need to read the entire release and development thread, or you're out of luck
10:19<@Belugas>Eddi|zuHause, if you were in quebec, that would :D
10:20<@Belugas>Happy new year to you too dihedral, and al of those who are reading these lines!!
10:20<__ln__>there was this news article that Chicago zoo moved their polar bears indoors because it was too cold outside.
10:21<@Belugas>was not a fun start of year, for me though... went to the emergencies fr may dad (he's fine now), my son caugh chickenpox (still contagious) and one of my HD at work crashed
10:21<@Belugas>it is indeed quite cold here as well ;)
10:21<Eddi|zuHause>there was something about the niagara falls being frozen
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10:21<@Belugas>climate warming.. yeah right...
10:22<Eddi|zuHause>well everything is green out here
10:22<MNIM>Belugas: try europe
10:22<MNIM>it's freaking spring out here!
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>it regularly hits 2-digit temperatures
10:23<MNIM>hell, in the netherlands it rarely gets below 2 digits.
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>(meaning °C)
10:23<MNIM>(with the occasional bout of fall storms, but eh, that's normal. IN MARCH)
10:25<Flygon>Move to Victoria, Australia
10:25<Flygon>It snows. During summer
10:25<Flygon>Hyvaa yota
10:26<Eddi|zuHause>missing an ä?
10:26<__ln__>and ö
10:29<MNIM>Flygon: correct me if Im mistaken, but isn't australia suffering a heatwave right now?
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10:35<@Belugas>-12 c. today. we feel like it's "normal" compared to the -20 and more we had previously
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10:53<Aristide>I plain to extend bus lines (at arrow) :3
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10:59<Japa__>Aristide, how do you get that map?
11:00<Aristide>Japa__: I play with both games :x Simutrans and openttd
11:00<Aristide>Actually is Simutrans
11:01<Aristide>But I don't know how to get this map with openttd :(
11:02<Japa__>Ah, okay
11:02<Japa__>PLUGIN TIME!
11:05<Aristide>Well, bus lines are extended _o/
11:08<Aristide>\o/ Well
11:08<Aristide>I transport only passengers
11:19<Japa__>Now my mind segued into exporting an OSM format map of the landscape
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11:22<NL_Michel>someone some experience with the soap plugin?
11:25<NL_Michel>i need to know what OFS is, it's in the prerequisites
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11:27<dihedral>NL_Michel, do you have a link?
11:31<dihedral>NL_Michel, you can keep the chat in here please ;-)
11:32<NL_Michel>a k:)
11:33<NL_Michel>I searched for it, but can't find anything related to OFS and OpenTTD
11:35<dihedral>works for me :-P
11:36<NL_Michel>Thanks, seems like i need to search better then
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12:09<Eddi|zuHause>don't pick up the soap
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12:29<NL_Michel>Why so?
12:29<dihedral>Eddi|zuHause, i am sure not everybody would WANT to follow that advice :-P
12:29<dihedral>see :-D
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13:18<Taede>hmm, i better put that in the readme
13:20<V453000>nobody will read a readme anyway :P
13:21<Taede>well if they didnt, they wouldn't even know to ask what ofs is
13:21<Taede>i put ofs in as a requirement, but failed to explain what it actually refers to
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13:25<triad>someone available ?
13:26<Pinkbeast>Sure, but you're not really my type.
13:26<Pinkbeast>... just ask a question, tends to save time
13:26<LordAro>@topic get 3
13:26<@DorpsGek>LordAro: Don't ask to ask, just ask
13:27<triad>I start OpenTTD, and when i click the "build roadrail track" button it gets me out from the game!!! What can the issue ? It's the only bug i have, GOD DAMN IT
13:27<triad>can be *
13:27<triad>on Fedora , latest release.
13:27<Pinkbeast>By "roadrail" do you mean trams, or trains?
13:27<LordAro>"button it gets me out from the game" ?
13:27<LordAro>you mean a crash?
13:27<triad>on Windows 7 i don't have this problem
13:27<triad>@LordAro : yes
13:27<Pinkbeast>... and is there any output after the crash?
13:28<triad>@Pinkbeast: no simply gets me out.
13:28<LordAro>triad: upload crash.* files to the bug tracker
13:28<triad>where's the crash file if there is one!
13:28<LordAro>My Documents\OpenTTD\
13:28<LordAro>assuming windows
13:28<triad>oh yes, i found it
13:28<Pinkbeast>LordAro: "on Fedora"
13:29<Pinkbeast>Probably ~/.openttd I guess, but I infer triad has found it
13:29<LordAro>Pinkbeast: well, Alberth runs fedora, and apparently has no problems, so.. *shrugs*
13:29<LordAro>triad: which version are you running?
13:29<Pinkbeast>That's why I asked what "roadrail" means, I wonder if it is a bug if there is no tram set loaded
13:29<triad>LordAro: latest version; all updates
13:30<triad>roadrail meanins trains
13:30<LordAro>@topic get 4
13:30<@DorpsGek>LordAro: 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither
13:30<@DorpsGek>LordAro: Temporary Offline
13:30<triad>@DorpsGek: the latest STABLE one
13:30<LordAro>lots of changes since then
13:30<LordAro>triad: can you reproduce?
13:30<triad>what ?
13:31<LordAro>can you reproduce the crash?
13:31<triad>to make it again ? ok
13:31<LordAro>other than that, upload the existing crash.* files (all of them) to
13:32<triad>i need an account as i see
13:32<Pinkbeast>triad: Did you install a package maintained by Fedora, or install it yourself?
13:32<triad>yum install openttd
13:32<triad>simple as that
13:33<triad>no other repos added, just from Fedora
13:33<Pinkbeast>Huh. Did you select any NewGRFs?
13:33<LordAro>Pinkbeast: not, according to the gamelog
13:34<Pinkbeast>Oh, well spotted. I think I have it.
13:35<Pinkbeast>I think it's an ongoing problem with the Fedora build, and you might do better to build your own, which I realise is a bit of a pain but is less than you think.
13:35<Pinkbeast>It is probably also worth updating that Fedora bug.
13:35<LordAro>Pinkbeast: i dunno, that's a very different stack trace
13:35<Aristide>Hi again :)
13:36<Pinkbeast>LordAro: you may be better informed than I
13:36<LordAro>not with a heavily hex-ified stack trace like that :L
13:36<LordAro>triad: either way, can you post the crash files to the bug tracker?
13:37<triad>if you already have a account i would appreciate it; if not, i'll upload it in a few minutes
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13:38<Pinkbeast>... yeah, but it was a lot better than my Romanian
13:38<Pinkbeast>His English.
13:38<LordAro>ah, right
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26233 trunk/src/lang/swedish.txt (2014-01-09 18:45:09 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>swedish - 2 changes by spacejens
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13:53<triad>got crash from stupid web browser :\
13:54<triad>so.. how may i fix my problem ?
13:54<triad>is there any way..
13:54<LordAro>not without knowing more about it
13:54<LordAro>please upload ALL the crash files to
13:54<LordAro>crash.log, crash.dmp, crash.png, crash.sav
13:55<triad>Ok :\
13:55<triad>:] **
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14:10<andythenorth>bit of a 'blah blah blah' day eh?
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14:36<triad>LordAro, Pinkbeast - you said if i build i manually it may work ?
14:36<LordAro>doubt it
14:36<frosch123>you compiled it yourself, didn't you?
14:37<frosch123>the farm has no redhat
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14:37<triad>frosch123 - no
14:37<triad>so i should try compile it myself ?
14:37<triad>what are the chances ... ?
14:37<frosch123>you got it from your distro?
14:37<triad>frosch123: yes; yum install openttd
14:37<triad>no other repos added; just fedora rep.
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14:53<@Alberth>fedora 20 has 1.3.3-1.fc20
14:53<@Alberth>ie current stable
14:53<triad>still; doesn't work properly
14:54<LordAro>/o supermo
14:55<supermop>hows it going?
14:56<LordAro>maths exams, currently :L
14:56<supermop>can work be taken from a gpl v2 project and released as v3 or visversa?
14:56<supermop>what sort of math?
14:57<LordAro>well, i had calculus yesterday, which went awfully, and i have algebra tomorrow
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15:00<supermop>very fun
15:02<triad>i got some exams next week too
15:02<triad>awesome as fuck
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15:02<LordAro>very :3
15:03<triad>8 exams in the next months.
15:03<supermop>i wish i did as well
15:03<supermop>but i am quitting my job
15:03<supermop>so not many exams in the foreseeable future
15:04<triad>supermop: you could examine my issue with the game :]
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15:05<triad>maybe you have somet thoughts
15:05<supermop>i make no guarantees as to the quality of response you will get
15:05<supermop>yep, i have no idea what any of that means
15:06<LordAro>triad: you overestimate how skilled the majority of the people in this channel are ;)
15:06<supermop>i wonder if i should try to get my fiancee interested in nfo, so she can code stations for me
15:06<andythenorth>brrrr exams
15:06<supermop>i am not the code savy half
15:06*andythenorth is so free from jumping those hoops
15:07<triad>are you playing on servers or just single player mode ?
15:07<supermop>i don't play that much at all lately
15:07<supermop>one because i have to get ready to move
15:07<@Alberth>hi Wolf01
15:08<supermop>and two because i start a game, see something i wish was different,
15:08<@Alberth>hi andy
15:08<supermop>think about working out how to change it, draw something better etc,
15:08<supermop>then realize i don't have nearly enough time to execute that
15:08<@Alberth>playing the game of changing the game is quite entertaining :)
15:09<supermop>which leaves me unsatisfied with my game so i just sort of trail off
15:09<andythenorth>supermop: +1
15:09<andythenorth>the only games I finish are....
15:09<andythenorth>none of them :P
15:09<@Alberth>just redefine finishing :p
15:09<andythenorth>playing to some kind of conclusion?
15:09<andythenorth>like winning or losing the GS?
15:10<supermop>play just far enough to the point where it should get interesting -
15:10<@Alberth>I define it as "I stop playing with the game file"
15:10<supermop>Andy i did manage a heart of darkness game
15:10<andythenorth>me too, ish
15:10<andythenorth>I was obviously going to win the GS if I could be bothered to connect enough mines, so I stopped playing
15:11<supermop>i did give up as the GS i was using kept crashing and i became preoccupied with the metro network of a city stuck in the desert (not very heart of darkness like)
15:11<andythenorth>I really like MP nocargoal because it's frantic
15:11<andythenorth>single player cargo goal scripts are meh ish
15:11<supermop>it makes me yearn for a non-arid tropical environment
15:12<andythenorth>he :)
15:12<supermop>i like growth scripts but not totally happy with any yet
15:12<andythenorth>better terrain generator? o_O
15:12<supermop>yeah maybe
15:12<supermop>basically i want a vietnam or similar landscape
15:12<andythenorth>it doesn't help that I know when all the new vehicle types are going to turn up
15:13<supermop>mix of jungles, forests, high lands and lowlands
15:13<andythenorth>kind of removes any chance elements
15:13<andythenorth>disasters off
15:13<andythenorth>breakdowns off
15:13<supermop>i wish nml could randomize vehicles
15:13<andythenorth>I can plot ahead to getting a new vehicle in 1910 or whatever
15:14<supermop>like you supply it with generational sprites, and your grf randomly makes a vehicle
15:14<supermop>like town name generator
15:14<supermop>random-ish names,
15:14<juzza1>how would those generational sprites work?
15:14<supermop>stats from within a range for each generation, but never exactly the same
15:14<supermop>they would be very generic
15:15<supermop>so liets say you have a 60s-ish bush sprite
15:16<andythenorth>I think randomised stats are a red herring tbh
15:16<supermop>maybe in 1962 the game makes a random bus using it, in 66 makes a different bus with a 2nd cc stripe?
15:18<supermop>that or make a RV set with a ton of very similar vehicles throughout 100years, and randomly deactivate 60% of them
15:19<supermop>i would like generic vehicles with random names a la town names though
15:21<andythenorth>tech levels :P
15:21<supermop>do you plan on coffee existing in the 'full' economy? or is it a tropical only thing?
15:21<andythenorth>'for some inane reason, you have levelled up: here is a new vehicle'
15:21<andythenorth>full economy is done
15:21<andythenorth>no more changes
15:21<andythenorth>full economy is batshit crazy, nobody should play it
15:22<supermop>the actually Busses should just gain experiences
15:22<supermop>that sentence made no sense
15:22<supermop>every truck starts out as a forklift and has to level up
15:23<supermop>i would play with something a bit less port heavy than heart of darkness, although i think as is is a good fit for many developing economies
15:24<supermop>currently though there is basically no processing, just raw mineral extraction, then send away for some finished goods
15:25<supermop>anyway i didn't log on today just to pester andy to make firs less fun
15:25<andythenorth>which aspects of HoD do you like?
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15:25<andythenorth>...there will be more economies in future
15:25<andythenorth>probably one or two a year until I'm bored
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15:25<supermop>paradoxically, the ports
15:26<supermop>having a vareity of types of them
15:27<supermop>i actually never completed a line from a farm to anywhere
15:28<supermop>also it felt weird not to be able to make food out of fruit
15:28<supermop>i guess there was a brewery i missed?
15:28<supermop>as i was stuck in the desert, i needed food more than normal to grow a city,
15:29<supermop>so alcohol didn't really help
15:29<andythenorth>you kind of have to import all your food
15:29<andythenorth>or catch fish
15:30<supermop>i guess i want "SE Asia" more than "sub-Saharan Africa"
15:32<supermop>i never understood diamonds as a heavy cargo for a big transport company to focus on either - but I guess that is out of respect to the TTD heritage
15:33<supermop>HOD is fun though
15:33<supermop>and if i wasn't stuck in the desert would be great for the primarily urban game i was playing
15:34<supermop>getting all finished goods from a port works well with big cities
15:34<supermop>one thing i like about the supplies mechanic
15:35<supermop>is that I can ration them
15:35<supermop>so i can serve a mine or farm and prevent the gargo generated from ever becoming too huge
15:36<andythenorth>try it with cargodist :P
15:36<supermop>as i dont like having my commuter lines overrunf with unit trains of bauxite
15:36<andythenorth>supplies might yet get removed
15:36<andythenorth>we'll see
15:37<andythenorth>I am concerned about supplies, I think the boost is too high
15:37<andythenorth>quadruple is a lot of network load all at once, and it can flap easily
15:37<andythenorth>I am actually considering (shock) a parameter
15:37<andythenorth>for boost (1x, 2x, 4x) or (1x, 1.5x, 2x)
15:38<andythenorth>I can make you a patched FIRS if you want to test lower boost
15:38<supermop>cant really put it through its paces for a couple weeks until after i move, find a new job, and settle in
15:39<andythenorth>where are you moving to?
15:39<supermop>but 1.5 and 2x sounds better for me
15:40<supermop>id also rather see 8x production come from new mines, not one mine digging up more because they are choking on backhoes that get dumped there every month
15:41<supermop>fiancee is there for her master's
15:45<triad>supermop - you are from Aussie ?
15:45<supermop>live in new york
15:45<triad>that's nice
15:47<supermop>andythenorth: have you every thought about breaking out parts of firs industries to add as chips tiles?
15:47<andythenorth>some have been
15:47<supermop>bigger building though than the little white L shaped one
15:48<supermop>like the big hall of the machine shop
15:49<andythenorth>if somebody wants them as objects I wouldn't stop them
15:49<supermop>i want to have pretend that the machine shop is building my trains
15:50<supermop>a paved tile that matches chips platforms and industry pavement but does not accrue huge piles of crates would be cool too
15:51<andythenorth>station cargo graphics are ugly :D
15:51<supermop>its embarassing
15:51<supermop>that im so bad at taking the food away it dwarfs the train that has come for it!
15:53<andythenorth>then some other cargo piles up, and the whole station changes, all at once
15:53<supermop>or if trains are in the process of loading, it can switch back and forth
15:54<supermop>its a clever mechanic though, and a great way to make cargo stations more accessible to casual users
15:55<andythenorth>ugly :)
15:55*andythenorth is unforgiving
15:56<supermop>i also love putting a pit of cobble pavement around my grain mills/bakeries
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15:58<supermop>do you still have that tuk-tuk?
16:04<supermop>going to grab a quick late lunch, talk to you guys later
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16:49<burty>I'm trying to make a new company option but can't get it working in multiplayer. It changes for the company but only client side. I'm using DoCommandP is that correct? If not could someone point me in the right direction for this stuff?
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>DoCommand and DoCommandP differ in exactly whether the command is sent over the network or applied only client side
16:50<frosch123>isn't there already such an option?
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>and you can create a new company by first moving to spectator
16:51<@Rubidium>(new company) option or, new (company option)?
16:51<burty>new (company option)
16:52<@Rubidium>so something like autoclean setting; then why not use the already existing settings infrastructure?
16:53<burty>You mean like looking at the change company name and follow that through?
16:53*andythenorth considers patching construction to auto-demolish rivers
16:53<@Rubidium>I'm assuming it's some sort of setting, right?
16:53<Eddi|zuHause>what kind of setting do you want to make?
16:53<frosch123>i guess you jsut add a thing to src/table/company_settings.ini
16:55<burty>It's the idea that companies can individually set their shares for sale. It's part of the larger patch I'm working on.
16:58<Eddi|zuHause>so basically it's just a number
16:58<burty>Yeah, well a boolean
16:59<burty>It's a enable/disable shares for sale to start with... I'm thinking I may well change it so they can put up amounts for sale to raise capital... Basing a lot off of TheJoshs original ideas and talk
16:59<Eddi|zuHause>then what frosch123 said is probably the right approach
17:00<frosch123>i am not so sure about that anymore :p
17:00<frosch123>company settings have a default value and such
17:00<frosch123>while you do not just sell shares to the public on start
17:01<Eddi|zuHause>well default value: offer 0% of your shares
17:01<Eddi|zuHause>and proc can be something that does the actual selling (or not)
17:02<frosch123>oh yes, also changing settings does not immediately affect stuff, as in changing bank balance and such
17:02<frosch123>so, this sounds much more like a new command
17:02<burty>Trying to clarify: It's sort of like renaming the company. You click rename and the new name is propagated <= that is the bit I'm struggling with is the propagation of the change on the network :(
17:02<burty>Yeah it would be a command... Sorry I think I muddied the explanation by using option
17:03<frosch123>you call DoCommandP on the client, and the CmdXXX function is called everywhere
17:03<frosch123>you have to make the CmdXXX perform a check for ~DC_EXEC, and execute on DC_EXEC
17:03<frosch123>the check may not alter the game state
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17:27<burty>Thanks frosch, I had a quick look at that and it seems that *could* be the right way to head but I've still not got it sorted yet but too tired so gonna look again tomorrow. Thanks again all :)
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20:28*Sacro finds a new years message from Belugas from 2005
20:29<Sacro>I've been here too long!
20:29<Sacro>@seen Bjarni
20:29<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 2 years, 13 weeks, 5 days, 1 hour, 10 minutes, and 19 seconds ago: <Bjarni> heh
20:32<Eddi|zuHause>that was not new year
20:33<Sacro>Eddi|zuHause: tssk
20:33<Sacro>it's dated 31/12/2005
20:34<Eddi|zuHause>that's not what i meant, but 31.12. is definitely not new year either :p
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