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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-01-15

---Logopened Wed Jan 15 00:00:12 2014
---Daychanged Wed Jan 15 2014
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02:26<dihedral>good morning
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05:08<Flygon>Morning, planetmaker!
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05:31<Xaroth|Work>o/ pm
05:37<Xaroth>o/ Taede
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08:05<Xaroth|Work>interesting smiley :o
08:10<Taede>busy fixing screen on lappy, mustve hit some keys on the desktop there
08:11<@planetmaker>be lucky that it were only keys and not bricks
08:11<@planetmaker>the latter would be more permanent
08:12<Taede>no matter, my wife's lappy from the same series died due to mainboard fault, i've been keeping it as spare parts
08:38<Taede>always good that it works after you fix it
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12:55<_1man2kinds>can anyone recommend a task/bug for a beginner ?
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12:56<__ln__>the code may be to big a shock for a beginner
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12:56<_1man2kinds>I know, I've been digging the code for a few days already
12:57<_1man2kinds>I don't mean a c++ beginner
12:58<LordAro> ?
12:58<LordAro>lower case 'l', sorry
13:00<_1man2kinds>it seems that the 'Easy' ones are mostly done
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13:07<LordAro>no, otherwise they wouldn't be there ;)
13:07<LordAro>well, a couple have patches, but none of them are in trunk
13:14<__ln__>getting patches in the trunk most definitely isn't suitable for beginners
13:15<_1man2kinds>so if I'd submit a patch, I'll need one of you to commit it to the trunk ?
13:17<__ln__>(i'm not a member of 'you') yes, that's right, and it's not as easy as it sounds
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13:21<@planetmaker>Basically yes, _1man2kinds . We want to believe it's that easy, and ideally it is
13:22<@planetmaker>practically you'll have to quarrel with one or more of us to fulfill what we think should change :)
13:22<Xaroth|Work>I've had no issues getting my patches to land in trunk :)
13:22<@planetmaker>being on IRC is a good think for this, though
13:22<@planetmaker>*good thing
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13:25<@planetmaker>_1man2kinds, using the forums to present the patches is a good idea, too :)
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14:19<_1man2kinds>ok, the following task from the todo list seems doable
14:19<_1man2kinds>Add the user-side possibility to exclude selected AIs from being chosen as "random AI" for new games
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14:25<andythenorth>if andythenorth.hungry == True: return True
14:39<rubenwardy>or just "return andythenorth.hungry"
14:39<andythenorth>definitely more concise
14:40<andythenorth>but my function is called "should_andythenorth_make_food"
14:40<@Rubidium>though possibly not as good
14:40<andythenorth>and I need to extend it
14:40<@Rubidium>mostly because hungry could be a floating point to give the amount of hungriness
14:41<andythenorth>for example "if $someone[else].will_make_food == True: return False"
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14:41*andythenorth contemplates the database churn of 'if person.will_make_food && != andythenorth'
14:41<_1man2kinds>hungriness can also be a complex number since it has a real part and imaginary part ;)
14:42<andythenorth>rage = self.hunger > 10
14:42*Alberth throws cookies into the channel
14:42<@Rubidium>hi Alberth
14:43<andythenorth>dunno if I can accept your cookies under EU law
14:43<andythenorth>have you provided a cookie statement?
14:43<@Alberth>yes, it says "they are very tasty and are found to be harmless"
14:44<@Alberth>I will never want them back :)
14:44*andythenorth browses suggestions forum
14:44<@Alberth>be careful!
14:44<@Rubidium>they can be used to store personal information, though generally due to the nature of these cookies, the personal data of the cookies never reaches the producer of the cookies
14:44<@Rubidium>it rather reaches the sewer workers... but that's another thing ;)
14:44<andythenorth>the orders UI rolls on
14:45<andythenorth>I have only done UI design most days of the week for about 15 years
14:45<andythenorth>so I don't know much about it
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14:45<andythenorth>but I've found that lots of words tends not to be the most productive design technique
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14:46<@Alberth>design by committee has this property of needing to explain everything
14:46<andythenorth>it's fun
14:46<andythenorth>because the comittee has no power to implement :P
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14:46<andythenorth>the orders UI could use some tweaks, but it's not the worst offender
14:47*Rubidium wonders whether they are done before they can answer the result of 1+2+3+4+5+6+.... ;)
14:47<@Rubidium>I rather like the answer of that infinite sum though
14:49<frosch123>21+... ?
14:50<@Rubidium>nope, apparantly it's -1/12
14:52<frosch123>well, i got 2 of 3 digits right then
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15:00<@Rubidium> <- yay magic math ;)
15:02<@Rubidium>hmm, missing minus at the end of line 16 :(
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15:25<triad>someone with management skills around ?
15:26<Xaroth|Work>define 'management skills'
15:26<@Rubidium>I've managed the tides for a while, does that count?
15:27<triad>i got a school project
15:29<frosch123>just smile and say that you delegated the project
15:30<frosch123>actually, don't smile, keep serious
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15:50<@planetmaker>infinity is such a nice number :)
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16:00<Eddi|zuHause>there definitely is something wrong with custom currency settings
16:00<frosch123>when did it break? or just in general?
16:00<frosch123>maybe the ini file validation?
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>i vaguely remember noticing this quite a while ago, but i did not investigate
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16:15<Eddi|zuHause>so r25075 works :)
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16:15<Eddi|zuHause>r26075 doesn't
16:19<Eddi|zuHause>25575 doesn't
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16:21<Eddi|zuHause>25325 doesn't
16:23<Eddi|zuHause>25200 doesn't compile: /mnt/disk2/spiele/OpenTTD/trunk_clean/objs/setting/table/settings.h:781:1: error: ‘struct WindowDesc’ has no member named ‘pref_sticky’
16:25<Eddi|zuHause>hm, clean helped, it seems
16:26<Eddi|zuHause>doesn't work either
16:28<Eddi|zuHause>25137 doesn't work either
16:31<Eddi|zuHause>25106 doesn't
16:33<@Rubidium>so... nobody uses custom currencies ;)
16:33<Eddi|zuHause>well i do, but i haven't played in 2 years :p
16:36<andythenorth>I love unused features
16:36<Eddi|zuHause>25091 doesn't
16:36<andythenorth>one day, some day, we are going to put logging into our apps to see what customers actually use
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16:36<frosch123>will if 25075 works, maybe 25076 doesn't
16:36<andythenorth>we ran apache logs on one feature we thought *nobody* used and found it was quite popular :P
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: that's what i feared :p
16:37<frosch123>maybe there is still some dependency on the custom one being the last one
16:37<andythenorth>are we allowed to delete unused features?
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>25082 doesn't
16:39<frosch123>andythenorth: not if we use them to decline other features
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>binary search sucks
16:40<frosch123>like historically accurate exchange rates
16:40<@Rubidium>frosch123: not like that's every going to happen; it's mayhem in MP
16:41<andythenorth>oic :)
16:41<andythenorth>gatekeeper features
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, 25076 breaks it
16:41<andythenorth>we should add some more :)
16:42<andythenorth>can we add stuff to block daylength, liveries per vehicle, and vehicle groups organised into tedious tree structures? o_O
16:42<@Rubidium>because it would be odd if the amount of money on the bank account drops because of the exchange rate changing. As a result everyone has to play in his 'local' currency, but then due to the exchange rate two people in the same company will have a different value of the company because the exchange rate between their currencies changed
16:43<frosch123>ResetCurrencies looks fishy
16:44<andythenorth>we could just allow that it's realistic?
16:44<andythenorth>and have forex speculation :P
16:44<@Rubidium>and since you know the exchange rates in 'early' games, you could just switch currencies to the one that is going to increase in 'value' most to make the most money
16:45<andythenorth>that's just sensible strategy
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>oh yeah
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>that looks bad
16:46<frosch123> <- does that fix it?
16:47<frosch123>oh i can delete 4 lines of silly comments
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16:49<Eddi|zuHause>seems to work
16:52<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26262 trunk/src/currency.cpp (2014-01-15 21:52:22 UTC)
16:52<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r25075, r25076): Custom currency was reset on game start.
16:54<frosch123>hmm, while it is old stuff, it is actually 1.4 only
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17:19<andythenorth>what I need here is a modular processing pipeline for spritesheets
17:19<andythenorth>maybe I invented that already
17:19*andythenorth checks :P
17:21<andythenorth>how does all this pixa stuff work :P
17:21<andythenorth>it made sense at the time :)
17:22<@Alberth>lol :)
17:22<@Alberth>not sure if you should call that a modular pipeline :p
17:22<andythenorth>it's curious
17:23<andythenorth>it looks like 'my first python project' :P
17:23<andythenorth>I have classes and functions and constants all mixed up together
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17:26<andythenorth>otoh, I do have documentation
17:26<andythenorth>with pictures and everything
17:26<andythenorth>which means I knew it was wrong at the time :)
17:27<@Alberth>perhaps a manual at the forum somewhere?
17:28<andythenorth>after a year away from it, there seem to be obviously better ways to do it :)
17:28<andythenorth>but maybe they will have new pitfalls :)
17:28<@Alberth>you can count on that, or you would have found the ideal way of working already by now :)
17:29<andythenorth>with some work, this pixa thing could save a lot of time...
17:30*planetmaker actually ponders somewhat scripting gimp to do some image editing. Just unsure to use gimp's script-fu (scheme) or the python interface :D
17:31<@planetmaker>so far I can create a new image which is completely orange. Or I can select a rectangle and have it fail on doing anything with the selection when using scheme
17:31<@planetmaker>(I need simple means to re-use ground tiles for road and rail sprites - copy & paste is boring)
17:31<@Alberth>PIL + python?
17:32<@planetmaker>I need to edit layers in gimp files and then export some layers from the resulting file
17:32<@planetmaker>maybe PIL + python would do the trick, too...
17:33<@planetmaker>the advantage of doing it as gimp plug-in: it could also be called from gimp's GUI and one can use the result for ruther editing
17:34<andythenorth>I have limited faith in scripting big image editors
17:34<andythenorth>PIL is odd and known flakey, but it's fast and simple
17:34<andythenorth>some people also swear by ImageMagick
17:35<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: maybe use the pixa code from CETS?
17:35<@Alberth>oh, I tried that for the animated bow gif of the forum, was a lot of fun to use it
17:35<andythenorth>it's a lot more feature rich than PIL
17:35<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: that is mostly in scripts/ and some bits in scripts/
17:35<andythenorth>for PIL you have to basically invent your own compositing
17:36*andythenorth has not used imagemagick though
17:36<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I'll look ta
17:37<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: yeah you've abstracted some of the bits I need - export and encode
17:37<andythenorth>my old BANDIT code duplicates that all over the place, stupidly
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17:37<andythenorth>what / why are you pickling?
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: storage so i can do the encoding in a separate step
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>allows for make -j<n>
17:39<Eddi|zuHause>so in the generate step i write the shape stuff into a file, and in the encoding step i read that and create the image
17:39<andythenorth>ok, I'll return to this in a day or so
17:40<andythenorth>the stuff I did for BANDIT 100% works, but I hate the structure
17:40<andythenorth>now I need to rewrite it for IH, FISH and (secret project)
17:40<andythenorth>but now bed :)
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---Logclosed Thu Jan 16 00:00:30 2014