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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-01-21

---Logopened Tue Jan 21 00:00:38 2014
00:04<mek42>started a 7925 game to force myself to learn rail and signals eventually
00:06<mek42>found a forest near a power station and a sawmill near a coal mine, so made 6 unit long stations and my first train is 2 engines and 5 each coal and wood cars so each trip is half loaded
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00:52<Pinkbeast>mek42: I hate to say it, but mixing cargo types rarely works as well as one might hope...
00:55<mek42>i suspect this is generally the case, but it makes me feel good - and for my first line in this particular go, i have some hills to climb on the way to the power station - being only half full is a little less weight to carry each way
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01:10<Pinkbeast>mek42: Mmm. The difficulty comes with knowing which end of the line to full-load at.
01:11<Pinkbeast>Half full and half empty each way _ought_ to be very efficient. It's a bit vexing.
01:12<mek42>well, i put my full car closest to the engines for the uphill route, in hopes that once the full mass was up the hill, acceleration would improve
01:13<Pinkbeast>Ah. I would do it the other way around, because the locomotive is also heavy; that way, it spends less time with all the heavy parts on the gradient at once.
01:13<Pinkbeast>Anyway, I'm off to bed. Have fun!
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02:54<dihedral>good morning
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05:03<andythenorth>for spritesheets going into a grf, is there any significant benefit to me cropping them to minimal size?
05:03<andythenorth>I figure extraneous white and blue compresses ok?
05:03<andythenorth>wondering about compile time as well as grf size...
05:14<@planetmaker>andythenorth, if you use nmlc -c (which is default), then nmlc will automatically crop and adjust offsets upon compilation
05:15<@planetmaker>so for you to develop you don't have to worry at all
05:15<@planetmaker>Unless for sprites which must not be cropped (e.g. foundations) - there the NOCROP command for the sprite comes in
05:15<@planetmaker>so all is easy
05:15<andythenorth>for some cases where I am compositing sprites, I have to do a crop, so I wondered if there was a benefit to writing code to do it for all
05:15<andythenorth>but let's assume not :)
05:16<@planetmaker>there's no benefit to crop in several places during compilation. Just do it once at the end, let nmlc handle it
05:16<@planetmaker>without proof that sounds fastest :D
05:16<andythenorth>I wonder if I could borrow the nml code for the places I do need to crop :P
05:19<@planetmaker>nml/ and following
05:42<Eddi|zuHause>uhm... "BSI identified 16 million e-mail adresses that are compromised, please enter your e-mail adress into this form to find out whether you are affected"... how do i know that the BSI [german federal office for IT security] website is actually valid and not abusing my input? :p
05:46<andythenorth>how do you spelling 'phishing' in German?
05:50<Eddi|zuHause> <-- doesn't even load for me...
05:50<Eddi|zuHause>"connection refused"
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06:51<MNIM>considering there's a www infront of the subdomain? baaaaad bad site.
06:52<Eddi|zuHause>well it was linked from a major newspaper
06:53<MNIM>well that doesn't say a whole lot @.@
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08:01<dihedral>yet another yorick :-P
08:02<yorick>dihedral: huh?
08:02<dihedral>hello there
08:03<yorick>there's another one?
08:03<dihedral>just you
08:04<yorick>dihedral: so what are you talkin about then?
08:05<Taede>acronymifying yay i think
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08:11<fjb>dihedral: You asked for new pictures a few days ago. There are only some I took with my new cell phone:
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08:13<fjb>And one that I took with a regular digital camera:
08:15<dihedral>fjb: oh yeah - who is that? :-P
08:15<fjb>A Canadian whale.
08:16<Xaroth|Work>who clearly needed another drink
08:16<fjb>More sleep.
08:17<fjb>He wasn't drunk at all.
08:17<Xaroth|Work>so he needed another drink :)
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08:34<LordAro>dem netsplits
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08:34<LordAro>oftc is having fun today
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08:38<dihedral>LordAro, someone has to :-P
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08:42<Pikka>don't do that
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08:57<Pikka>here they come now
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12:27<mek42>woohoo! i figured out signals enough to have my first passing place work correctly :)
12:29<Pinkbeast>mek42: Well done. :-)
12:29<Pinkbeast>Are you using path or block signals?
12:30<mek42>i used one way path signals
12:31<Pinkbeast>That is best, I think (except you'll want not-one-way path signals where you want trains to pass them from the rear, eg at a terminus station.
12:31<Pinkbeast>But I try to think of one-way as the default and only use the others when I explicitly expect trains to go the other way.
12:32<Pinkbeast> I mention not just to stroke my ego, but because once the railways start it has quite a lot of "the way I do signals" in
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26271 trunk/src/lang/norwegian_nynorsk.txt (2014-01-21 18:45:07 UTC)
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13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>norwegian_nynorsk - 8 changes by 2rB
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14:10<frosch123>he, rubidium made it to the frontpage of
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14:11<frosch123>(with the -1/12 thingie)
14:14<@Alberth>lol :)
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14:22<@Rubidium>frosch123: though the proof they use for 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 + 1 - 1 + ... isn't as nice as the one I showed
14:22<Kucki>i like the cat with 9 tails
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14:26<Eddi|zuHause>it's the sort of things entry level maths students do when they ignore the requirement for absolute convergence for a sum
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>it's only a small step up from proving 1=2 by evaluating 0/0
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14:43<@Alberth>just state the axiom true = false, and you are done :p
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14:48<andythenorth>true = false
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14:56<Eddi|zuHause>"for all members of the empty set: <...>"
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14:59<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26272 /trunk (5 files in 3 dirs) (2014-01-21 19:59:13 UTC)
14:59<@DorpsGek>-Prepare: 1.4.0-beta3
15:04<frosch123>do i still have to fix the bugs i planned to fix for beta1?
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15:04<mek42>but i take great pride in being a member of the empty set! ;)
15:05<andythenorth>frosch123: nah, I'll do it for you
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15:05<andythenorth>will you trade it for finishing some newgrfs?
15:05<frosch123>were they planned for last year?
15:07<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26273 tags/1.4.0-beta3/ (2014-01-21 20:07:40 UTC)
15:07<@DorpsGek>-Release: 1.4.0-beta3
15:07<@Rubidium>frosch123: you probably should fix them ;)
15:08<@Rubidium>and fixing the others would be nice as too ;)
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16:02<mek42>what are some good add ons for a new player to try?
16:04<@Alberth>depends on how you like to play the game
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16:08<mek42>maybe a pre-1925 start and add some AI opponents
16:08*andythenorth is biased
16:09<@Alberth>we all are :)
16:09<andythenorth>I would use UKRS 2, eGRVTS, HEQS and AV8
16:10<andythenorth>some kind of ship set :P
16:10<andythenorth>there aren't any good ones
16:10<andythenorth>and I would use FIRS with one of the 'basic' economies
16:11<@Alberth>FISH is nice, and SQUID is too, but the latter is still in beta
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16:12<@Alberth>or you can use the OpenGFX+Industries newgrf if you want a slightly better but mostly like the default set
16:13<@Alberth>but ships heavily depends on the amount of water in your map
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16:14<mek42>is there a place that summarizes / describes most of the add ons in one spot?
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16:16<Xaroth|Work>the forums perhaps
16:17<@Alberth> somewhat
16:17<frosch123>mek42: <- that pdf also has a section about newgrf iirc
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16:21<mek42>wowsers, there's a few of them
16:25<andythenorth>it's pikka chu :)
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16:27<Pikka>rail tiles detecting neighbours - performance issues, array space, can't see the point, or a little of all three?
16:27<andythenorth>herp, railtypes :P
16:27<andythenorth>Pikka: can you make me and dan a railtype grf? we can't be bothered... :P
16:28<Pikka>I already made one, didn't I? :P
16:28<andythenorth>it is inadequate
16:28<andythenorth>for us
16:28<andythenorth>not generally :D
16:28<andythenorth>needs a metro thing, and some narrow gauge thing
16:29<@Alberth>mek42: did we mention game scripts already? :)
16:29*Pikka wants to make a railtype grf with curved junctions, but something about 'you'd need hundreds and hundreds of sprites and no-one's crazy enough to attempt that'
16:29<@Alberth>you may want to read about the various game scripts in the forum
16:29<andythenorth>Pikka: you need Eddi|zuHause
16:30<andythenorth>he likes that kind of thing....
16:32<mek42>wow, this can get overwhelming, lol
16:32<andythenorth>take it slowly ;)
16:34<mek42>i noticed some sort of multiplayer capability? how often do folks play together?
16:34<Eddi|zuHause>i've not got around to actually start the track set
16:34<Xaroth|Work>it's usually small groups of people, but there are a few popular ones
16:35<Eddi|zuHause>the patch to check adjacent trackbits should be about 10LOC
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16:37<Eddi|zuHause>and i don't think the performance impact would be that hard either. checking adjacent trackbits is already done for catenary
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>there was some open design question about returning individual trackbit sprites, or returning a full junction sprite
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16:40<Pikka>definitely full junction :)
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>the latter could yield better graphics, but potentially requires more complicated action2 chains, which may indeed pose performance impact
16:43<Pikka>and of course there's no way of caching the tile and only updating it when it or one of its neighbours changes?
16:43<Eddi|zuHause>only if you extend the map array
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>currently only the "fence" is cached
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>(this cache is only updated in the tileloop)
16:48<mek42>do FISH, new ships and old ships all play well together?
16:49<@Alberth>everybody has his/her own favourite combination, just try a few games experimenting
16:49<Pikka> is where I'm at, btw. perhaps I'll leave worrying about the curves until later. :)
16:49<Pikka>plenty else to be getting on with...
16:50<@Alberth>don't add too many at once
16:53<Eddi|zuHause>you have a weird width mismatch at the diagonal rails
16:56<andythenorth>mek42: FISH plays nice with other ship sets, but you shouldn't need more than one
16:56<andythenorth>unless it's to get the sailing ships...
16:57<andythenorth>FISH is a bit abandoned though :)
16:57<mek42>ok, i'm thinking FISH and old ships so i can do an early start
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17:01<Pikka>no I don't, eddi. :)
17:10<Pikka>but the track can be made to meet up only by curving the ends on both tiles, hence wanting to explore custom tiles and detecting neighbours.
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17:17<mek42>andythenorth - eGRVTS or eGRVTS2?
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19:57<mek42>with eGRAVTS, early start, are horse drawn cargo wagons supposed to use something other than a truck station?
19:58<Pinkbeast>mek42: The horse drawn wagons work just like normal RVs; some work on tram tracks, some on roads; if they carry pax or mail they stop at bus stops, if not at truck stops.
20:01<mek42>when i try to tell it to go to a truck station it says can't go to that station
20:02<mek42>it is in the middle of nowhere, do i maybe need the road connected to a depot near a town?
20:07<Pinkbeast>What is it carrying?
20:08<Pinkbeast>Because all road vehicles (not just EGRVTS) are implicitly divided into two sets; those that carry pax and mail, and all the rest. Each can never stop at the others' stations.
20:09<mek42>i refited it to sand, and am trying to send it to a truck station
20:09<mek42>it is a two horse hopper carriage
20:09<Pinkbeast>Is it a tram?
20:10<mek42>it says carriage, not tram
20:11<Pinkbeast>mek42: I'm afraid then I don't know without seeing a savegame.
20:12<mek42>is there a convenient way to make a save game available?
20:13<Pinkbeast>I don't actually have a running copy of OTTD on the steam-powered laptop, so, er.
20:14<mek42>ah, ok, np
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20:19<fjb>If it is horse drawn it is a multi part vehicle and as such needs a driver trough station.
20:20<Pinkbeast>Oh, yes!
20:20<Pinkbeast>I forgot about that, because I've internalised it.
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20:30<mek42>ah, ok, good to know - it can use one of those as an end terminal?
20:31<Pinkbeast>If you provide a space of road after to turn aroud in, yes
20:32<mek42>ok, gotcha
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---Logclosed Wed Jan 22 00:00:39 2014