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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-01-23

---Logopened Thu Jan 23 00:00:41 2014
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02:54<Eddi|zuHause>i think i made a new friend...
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03:03<@planetmaker>obviously you did, Eddi. And you're representitive of the "whole community" obviously :P
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03:07<Eddi|zuHause>you learned cow-ish?
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03:19<Eddi|zuHause><Pikka> boin <- Oin, Gloin, Dwalin, Balin, ... :)
03:20<Xaroth|Work>you're missing a few
03:20<Xaroth|Work>Bifur, Bofur, Bombur, Dori, Nori, Ori, Fili, Kili and Thorin
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03:38<Eddi|zuHause>hence the "..."
03:39<V453000>I have cow-ish as my main language
03:39<V453000>hence the meow
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04:20<Eddi|zuHause>looks like this rolling resistance thing is michi_cc's doing
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05:06<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: any reason why "search by date" in the logs stops at 2009?
05:09<SpComb>Eddi|zuHause: you mean it doesn't find anything before that?
05:09<SpComb>there probably aren't any earlier logs
05:09<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: no, the dropdown doesn't have any higher numbers
05:09<SpComb>it's probably a terrible hack :)
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05:10<SpComb>just hack the url :P
05:10<Eddi|zuHause>i did that
05:10<Eddi|zuHause>just wanted to mention :)
05:10<SpComb>I need to rewrite the entire thing some day
05:10<Eddi|zuHause>if you change it to 2014 now, i'll probably complain again in 5 years :p
05:11<@planetmaker>might be more time efficient than a complete rewrite
05:11<SpComb>add in some javascript that rewrites the server-generated dates
05:12<SpComb>inject it using a frontend http proxy
05:12<Eddi|zuHause>i have javascript disabled
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07:20<nicferirc>how can I install the generic binaries into /usr/?
07:20<Eddi|zuHause>you really shouldn't
07:20<@planetmaker>/usr/local/bin would seem better :)
07:20<Eddi|zuHause>a) /usr is for stuff by your package management, /usr/local is for manual stuff
07:20<Eddi|zuHause>b) the paths are set at compile time
07:21<Eddi|zuHause>(or rather configure time)
07:31<@planetmaker>__ln__, you repeat yourself
07:32<V453000>is a parrot
07:32<V453000>you cant explain that
07:32<__ln__>planetmaker: no, i repeat someone else
07:33<V453000>my point is valid then
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08:28<Eddi|zuHause>that is so yesterday...
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10:01<Xaroth|Work>o/ Belugas
10:02<@Belugas>hello Xaroth :)
10:02<Xaroth|Work>and how are you today?
10:06<@planetmaker>heya :)
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10:12<Pikka>"16*256=4096 motion units mean motion across one tile."
10:13<Pikka>is that number actually 2048 in OpenTTD? :D
10:14<Eddi|zuHause>but for trains it is increased twice per tick
10:15<Pikka>something's odd... shifting 8 bits, I only got one animation frame per two movements, and eight frames per tile. shifting 7 gave me the result I was expecting.
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10:18<Eddi|zuHause>i have no experience with animation
10:18<Eddi|zuHause>@seen Bad_Brett
10:18<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: Bad_Brett was last seen in #openttd 14 weeks, 0 days, 18 hours, 49 minutes, and 37 seconds ago: <Bad_Brett> nice photo from 1910:
10:19<@planetmaker>it's a bit ago
10:20<Pikka>and even just reading the numbers in the debug window... crossing a tile it increases by more like c2048 than c4096. :/ Oh well, I'll just go with what works, then. ;)
10:21<Eddi|zuHause>for - and | movement it's multiplied by 1.5 or so
10:21<Eddi|zuHause>because everything is wrong for those dimensions
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: care to show a test GRF?
10:25<Pikka>sounds like hard work, eddi :)
10:26<Pikka> though
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10:31<Eddi|zuHause>@base 16 10 ab2
10:31<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 2738
10:31<Eddi|zuHause>@base 16 10 239
10:31<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 569
10:32<Eddi|zuHause>i suppose you can't test that in ttdp?
10:34<Pikka>I'd be surprised...
10:36<@Rubidium>motion_counter is increased by current speed every tick
10:36<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds wrong then
10:37<Eddi|zuHause>"Its value is in units of 1/4096 of a tile. A vehicle actually moves visibly every time the motion counter increases by 256, and since a tile consists of 16 such subunits, 16*256=4096 motion units mean motion across one tile." <-- OpenTTD certainly violates this then
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10:38<Eddi|zuHause>not to mention when the speed changes in the two movement steps
10:40<@Rubidium>so, please file a bug report
10:41<@planetmaker>better: submit a patch :)
10:41<@planetmaker>you seem to have expertise on that part of code :P
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10:42<Eddi|zuHause>i really don't :p
10:42*Pikka would settle for correcting the documentation. ;)
10:42<Pikka>also I lol'd that NML gives you a number between 0 and 15 for the motion counter... useful... D:
10:42<Eddi|zuHause>nml's motion counter is really bad
10:43<@planetmaker>how should it be?
10:44<Eddi|zuHause>if your animation cycle is not a power of 2, you get unnecessary repeats of certain animation frames
10:44<@planetmaker>there was some discussion before it was set to 16... probably on grounds that that's the amount of actual movement steps on a tile
10:44<Eddi|zuHause>even though the resolution would allow for having these repeats only very rarely
10:44<Pikka>eddi: yes, about once every million tiles. :)
10:45<Eddi|zuHause>don't use motion counter, use var[0x46,0,0xFFFFFFFF]
10:45<Pikka>can you do that? handy. :)
10:46<Eddi|zuHause>yes, it's a "hidden feature" :)
10:46<@planetmaker>yes, you can. ^^
10:46<@planetmaker>Pikka, did you really switch to nml?!
10:46<@planetmaker>I guess we should remove that from the 'deprecated syntax' page. And put it somewhere else, more appropriate
10:47<@planetmaker>I don't see that feature being removed anytime soon
10:47<Pikka>no, I didn't planetmaker
10:47<Pikka>I just had a look at the spec to see if it said anything illuminating about what was happening with the motion counter.
10:48<@planetmaker>you should switch :P
10:48<Pikka>but then how will I do my 9-frame animations? :P
10:48<Pikka>(with var[0x46,0,0xFFFFFFFF], I know)
10:49<Eddi|zuHause>could just add a motion_counter_long or something
10:50<@planetmaker>might be an idea ^
10:50<Eddi|zuHause>i really have no clue what that motion_counter was supposed to achieve
10:50<@planetmaker>iirc the idea was to give you feedback on when the vehicle visually moved accross a tile
10:55<@planetmaker>Pikka, do you use anything else than plain nfo?
11:01<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: that is probably one of the least useful things to know...
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11:04<Pikka>g'night folks :)
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11:35<Eddi|zuHause>i have no idea whether this is correct (for aircraft, or for diagonal movement):
11:37<Eddi|zuHause>and it's certainly missing effect vehicles
11:37<Eddi|zuHause>are ships GroundVehicles?
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11:42<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: maybe "legacy variable access" is a good name?
11:43<Eddi|zuHause>or "direct variable access"
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13:36<Wolf01>hello o/
13:37<fjb>Moin Wolf01
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13:51<fjb>Quak frosch123
13:51<fjb>Moin andythenorth
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14:34<andythenorth>what's the go?
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14:41<@Alberth>the 4000 year old game?
14:41<andythenorth>he :)
14:42<andythenorth>I could write some more code to process spritesheets
14:42<andythenorth>or I could do some work
14:42<@planetmaker>what a choice :D
14:43<andythenorth>I like work :)
14:45<@planetmaker>if you didn't you had the wrong job :)
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14:49<@planetmaker> <-- I didn't yet verify... is that true?
14:49<andythenorth>he's mostly accurate, if very annoying :)
14:50<andythenorth>industry station names are half-assed imo :)
14:50<@planetmaker>makes it sound like each industry needs a separate name then :(
14:50<andythenorth>that's why I was glad you made them not my problem :)
14:50<frosch123>is the issue only the "Old" ?
14:50<andythenorth>we (someone - probably eddi or frosch) decided it needs an array of names to be good
14:51<frosch123>what if we strip the "Old"
14:51<frosch123>isn't it fine then?
14:51<andythenorth>no, the issue will be the number of petrol stations in a town giving names to stations
14:51<andythenorth>or such
14:51<@planetmaker>I don't think that's the issue he tries to raise. Rather the repetition of names
14:51<frosch123>well, "Townhall" is no worse than "Central"
14:51<andythenorth>I refuse a parameter in FIRS btw
14:51<frosch123>you only miss the one station name which has no suffix
14:51<andythenorth>either ottd fixes this, or they live with it :)
14:52<frosch123>but ok, default names or more randomised
14:52<Taede>exclude town-industries (bank/petrol-stations/shops) ?
14:52<frosch123>iirc newgrf ones are forced highest priority
14:52<@planetmaker>that's what I recall, too
14:52<@planetmaker>but it shouldn't give duplicates
14:54<@planetmaker>gah... Korean trainset uses different font sizes in description :S
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14:58<frosch123>small or big?
14:59<frosch123>ok :p
15:00<@planetmaker>anyway, I don't get duplicate station names even when I build two dozen of the same industry in a town and make the rest covered by stations
15:01<frosch123>oh, i misread the report
15:01<frosch123>i thought he complains that every town has a "old townhall"
15:01<frosch123>i did not noticed there were duplicates
15:02<frosch123>hmm, is that causes because ottd only compares the industry id?
15:02<@planetmaker>if he only complains about 'old townhall', I don't care about the report :)
15:02<@planetmaker>hm, I'll try
15:03<@planetmaker>seems so. with two or three industry types, then I get the same station name
15:04<frosch123>yup, station_cmd.cpp:249
15:04<frosch123>only checks for industrytype id
15:04<frosch123>not string :p
15:04<@planetmaker>so there's two ways to fix :)
15:05<frosch123>well, the idea was to give industries the same name, to not make the names too specific :p
15:05<@planetmaker>quite so. yes
15:08<@planetmaker> <-- also the description
15:08<@planetmaker>of the trainset. I wonder whether I should complain to him ;)
15:08<@planetmaker>about not updating the internal version between releases :P
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15:11<frosch123> <- better?
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15:19<@planetmaker>does the trick for me, frosch123
15:23<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26275 trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp (2014-01-23 20:23:14 UTC)
15:23<@DorpsGek>-Fix: If NewGRF provided the same station name for different industry types, stations would end up with same name. So also consider the provided name, not only the industry type.
15:23<frosch123>i see no issue :p
15:23<@planetmaker>firs sprites are nice till 2x zoom. In 4x the pixels show :)
15:24<@planetmaker>haha :)
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15:39<andythenorth>god what a boring conversation about rolling resistance
15:39<andythenorth>someone should just delete it
15:39<@Alberth>I skipped it :)
15:39<@planetmaker>there's a spill-off at tt-ms
15:39<frosch123>i skipped it :)
15:40<@planetmaker>yeah, me, too. tl;dr
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16:22<frosch123>hmm, something suggests that some os/2 compiler has an "vseprintf"
16:22<frosch123>yet google only hits on openttd
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17:15<Sacro>@seen Pikka
17:15<@DorpsGek>Sacro: Pikka was last seen in #openttd 6 hours, 11 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <Pikka> g'night folks :)
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17:24<Xaroth|Work>oh I love it when a plan comes together
17:26<Xaroth|Work>or in this case, when my caching decorator actually does what I tell it to do
17:29<@Alberth>now you can put your caches on the wall easily
17:30<Xaroth|Work>something like that
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18:04<TheZonta>Good Day People
18:04<TheZonta>What is the rXXXXX version of the 1.3.3 ?
18:04<TheZonta>if there one
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18:13<+glx>TheZonta: it's tags/1.3.3
18:17<+glx>revision doesn't really matter for releases
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18:45<TheZonta>Ah thanks glx Because i was looking to install the proper version for shared infrastructure
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20:14<TheZonta>Sad that every project that allow player to share their rails always dies
20:15<Eddi|zuHause>the problem is not the sharing of the rails, but all the rest...
20:17<Eddi|zuHause>things like payment for use of the rails, payment for partial delivery of cargo, ...
20:17<TheZonta>I see
20:18<Eddi|zuHause>preventing or allowing the use of the "ignore signals" button
20:19<TheZonta>Because we are 8 friend playing and i was thinking to build a mian rail so everyone can use it and to prevent the span of 16 rails next to each other
20:19<+glx>play coop style then
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20:47<mek42>when you open a vehicle list, the font used for orders and profits by each vehicle - is that "small" or "mono"?
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20:56<Eddi|zuHause>mono is for readme
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---Logclosed Fri Jan 24 00:00:42 2014