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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-01-31

---Logopened Fri Jan 31 00:00:55 2014
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04:17<dihedral>good morning
04:17<Elyon>good morning
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04:18<dihedral>you seem busy in a few channels there Elyon :-)
04:19<V453000>(:
04:20<@planetmaker>don't distract him, dihedral ;)
04:20<@planetmaker>he's our new newgrf coding slave! :P
04:20<Elyon>shush!
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07:15<Andreas>Is the "Disable infrastructure building when no suitable vehicles are available" function broken or am I not understanding the effect it should have correctly? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=69924
07:15<Andreas>or bettter said: It seems like it can't be turned off
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07:16<@peter1138>doesn't affect railtypes
07:16<@peter1138>but does affect road/depots/rail/stations/docks/airports
07:18-!-Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
07:18<Andreas>ah I see
07:19<Andreas>I was being misled by the word 'infrastructure there then I guess...
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07:22<Andreas>does not make much sense to build railtypes with no available vehicles anyway I guess...
07:24<@peter1138>basically the railtype check was always there
07:25<@peter1138>the infrastructure check is a later thing and doesn't affect the railtype check
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07:44*__ln__ is looking at map of germany with spanish city names...
07:46<__ln__>HanĂ³ver, Gotinga, Brunswick, Brema, Cassel, Colonia, Magdeburgo
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07:48<Taede>brunswick is spanish?
07:49<@planetmaker>no
07:49<@planetmaker>it's the English spelling of Braunschweig
07:49<Taede>makes more sense
07:50<@planetmaker>not only incidentially the same as the canadian province of new brunswick ;)
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07:50<[1]Tuhin>Sukhoi Superjet-100 (SSJ-100) included in AV8?
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07:51<@planetmaker>maybe, maybe not? load ingame and look?
07:52<@planetmaker>might need a parameter. Documentation for av8 is quite extensive, I think
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08:20<__ln__>planetmaker: apparently also the spanish spelling
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08:27<Pikka>there's no Sukhoi Superjet in av8, no.
08:33<Tuhin>Pikka, then it should be updated to add new aircrafts .. dreaminer is there?
08:33<Tuhin>777 dreamliner
08:33<Pikka>I'm not updating av8 any more
08:33<Tuhin>i didn't get time to play long enough to discover new plances
08:34<Tuhin>planes*
08:34<Tuhin>why Pikka?
08:34<Pikka>because I'm working on new things :)
08:34<Tuhin>take your time and add more stuff at a later date :)
08:35<Tuhin>just keep a "to add/to do ist"
08:35<Tuhin>list*
08:35<Tuhin>which new things?
08:35<Pikka>av8's pretty done, I think. Next, I'll make av9. ;)
08:35<Pikka>http://users.tt-forums.net/pikka/wiki/index.php/Av8 has the complete list of what's in av8, btw
08:35<Tuhin>btw i really like the FAST planes in av8
08:42<Tuhin>nice train gfx u r working on Pikka
08:42<Tuhin>why chinese bots downloads stuff automatically? its new news to me...
08:43<Pikka>I don't know. Just bots or spammers scraping websites.
08:44<Pikka>I'd come up with a more elegant solution if I cared about Trainz, but I don't. :)
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09:03<andythenorth>mm AV9
09:04<andythenorth>the smaller edition
09:05<Tuhin>smaller edition?
09:06<andythenorth>slimline, bijou, reduced fat, lean
09:06*andythenorth bbl
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09:07<Tuhin>Pikka, is there such a slim release?
09:07<Pikka>not yet
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09:24<gogoprog>hi
09:25<gogoprog>I just played openttd 1.3.3
09:25<gogoprog>and I had trouble with road car auto repair
09:25<gogoprog>is there a bug or am I using it wrong?
09:26<@planetmaker>the problem description is *slightly* too vague to even attempt to answer that question in a qualified way :)
09:26<gogoprog>it was saying "autorepair failed due to money limit" all the time but I had money
09:26<@planetmaker>oh, that's normal. Check the money limit
09:27<@planetmaker>it's not >0 but >500k or something you set in adv. settings
09:29<gogoprog>thank you!
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10:09<slee>hmm..looking at the train/manager/replace window for the first time, it appears that the 'replace' function is to only replace an exisitng train with another model, do you not have the ability to replace the train with the same type engine?
10:10<slee>...i know you can manually send a train to a depot and replace it, but is there an 'auto' ability?
10:12<Aristide>So
10:12<Aristide>For go to bellecour, I can take busline 37 (16:15), 69 (16:18), C26 (16:23), 37 (16:28), C26 (16:33) :D
10:12<Aristide>Good bye =)
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10:13<Pikka>slee, there's "autorenew", which will automatically replace it with the same type when it gets old
10:13<slee>thanks, i just found the article on it
10:23<slee>pikka, does the setting have to be set before you start a game? i existed my game, went into settings and enabled auto renew..went back into saved game and sent all trains to depot for maintainance, but it doesn't seem to have renewed my trains
10:23<Pikka>set it while the game is running
10:26<Pikka>it's a per-save setting and can differ between games, setting it on the main menu will set it for future games but won't affect existing saves
10:29<Japa_>planetmaker, you around, and preferably bored?
10:34<slee>pikka, i found my problem, i forgot i had trains set to not breakdown(while learning the game)
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11:20<Pikka>I'm wrong about it being a savegame setting too, aren't I? It's a per-player setting...
11:20<Pikka>teva
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11:41<Pikka>hello again andythenorth
11:42<andythenorth>lo
11:43<Pikka>"treacherous Australian terrain"
11:45<Pikka>hmm
11:47<@planetmaker>Japa_, I'm hardly ever bored and prefer highlights which don't consist of meta-questions
11:49<Japa_>Sorry
11:50<Japa_>Won't do that again
11:51<@planetmaker>so what was your real question?
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11:55<Japa_>It was about your patch to NML, but very shortly after highlighting you, I realized that I have a lot of reading to do before I get to a point where I can ask meaninful questions about it.
11:56<@planetmaker>my patch to NML?
11:57<Japa_>about the grid stuff
11:57<@planetmaker>oh, you mean how to teach NML about a new action5?
11:57<Japa_>yeah
11:58<Japa_>but then I realized I'd need to read more about how NML works before I can do that. maybe also read some python
11:59<@planetmaker>the important bit there the first hunk in nml/actions/action5.py
11:59-!-Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.156.184.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:59<@planetmaker>it adds one GUI sprite. And it adds the actual grid sprites as action5, type 0x17
11:59<@planetmaker>107 sprites overall
11:59<Japa_>action5_table?
12:00<@planetmaker>http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/grid/nml_grid.diff <-- that one
12:01<@planetmaker>not sure what you mean with action5_table
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12:02<Japa_>that's what's being modified
12:03<@planetmaker>ah, yes, right :D
12:03<@planetmaker>that's basically the only thing needed
12:03<@planetmaker>the rest in that patch is rather specific additions for the grid patch
12:04<Japa_>So I'd be adding 'LANDSCAPE_TILE_BORDERS' : (0x18, 300, Action5BlockType.OFFSET), to that, then
12:04<@planetmaker>yup
12:05<Japa_>http://pastebin.com/7MSSCpis
12:05<Japa_>this is pretty much how I should be defining the spright numbers, right?
12:07<@planetmaker>yeah. If there's a subsequent sprite, that needs adjustment, too
12:07<Japa_>I did that.
12:08<Japa_>So I got the sprites defined, and I got NML to make GRFs for them. Now I just have to make the sprites drawn and I can throw together a GRF to test it with... hopefully.
12:08<@planetmaker>wouldn't TILE_TRANSITION not be the better name than TILE_BORDER?
12:08<Japa_>Hm... likely
12:09<@planetmaker>https://rhodecode.openttdcoop.org/pota-ghat/files/94ddfeb4718f78b2351c8c06963dc37fe7cc95ef/gfx-source <-- here with the terrain.xcf and terrain_32bpp.xcf you could likely create relatively easily some sprites by adding some proper transparency masks and then exporting the right layers
12:10<Japa_>I'm scared of doing sloped transitions :(
12:11<@planetmaker>you don't need to do all. For the patch it suffices to make a demonstration, I think
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12:12<@planetmaker>for demonstration most of the 300 sprites could be 100% transparent
12:12<Japa_>It's more that slopes would multiply the sprite reservation by 19 or whatever the number of slope offsets there is
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12:13<@planetmaker>it's a sprite artist problem :P
12:14<Japa_>true
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12:15<@planetmaker>basically I'll need for each terrain type 4*19 transition sprites, right?
12:15<@planetmaker>when I consider all slopes
12:16<@planetmaker>well, all but one terrain type :D
12:17<Japa_>there's 32 possible transition sprites for flat ground
12:17<@planetmaker>how does that add up?
12:18<Japa_>there's one per each combination of 4 edges, that's 16 sprites
12:18<Japa_>then one per each combination of corners. that's another 16
12:18<@planetmaker>oh. make it simpler: draw one sprite for each edge
12:18<Japa_>2 are empty, though
12:19<@planetmaker>maybe?
12:19<Japa_>so it's down to 30
12:19<Japa_>possibly.
12:19<@planetmaker>hm... river dikes... that's 12 transition sprites: straight sides. curves with both sides filled. and small curves with only the edge filled
12:20<@planetmaker>so a river tile is composed such that
12:20<@planetmaker>a) water is drawn
12:20<@planetmaker>b) dikes are drawn: straight when adjacent is land
12:20<@planetmaker>c) dikes big corner is drawn when both adjacent are land
12:20<@planetmaker>d) dikes small corner is drawn when both adjecent are water and the diagonal is land
12:21<Japa_>Yeah, I'm probably doing this the hard way
12:21<@planetmaker>hm... maybe much of its code can even be generalized?
12:22<@planetmaker>sorry, didn't think of that before
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12:33<Japa_>http://pastebin.com/XexggsDH
12:36<@planetmaker>I would probably use a single #define TRANSITION_SPRITES 4*19
12:37<@planetmaker>or 12*19? :D
12:38<Japa_>point
12:38<@planetmaker>@calc 12*19*7
12:38<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 1596
12:38<@planetmaker>:-O
12:38<Japa_>@calc 30*19*7
12:38<@DorpsGek>Japa_: 3990
12:39<@planetmaker>and now temperate, tropical and toyland, too
12:39<@planetmaker>@calc 12*19*16
12:39<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 3648
12:40<@planetmaker>in total for all climates, using snow transitions, grass, rock, rough, desert
12:40<@planetmaker>welcome to lands of insanity :D
12:41<Japa_>yeah, I'm removing rough grass and rocks. they'll just use grass transitions
12:42<@planetmaker>hm, nah
12:43<@planetmaker>especially for rocks I'd find that sad :)
12:44<@planetmaker>they need the transition
12:44<Japa_>fair enough.
12:44<@planetmaker>and it's easy to simply use the same sprites
12:44<@planetmaker>but much more difficult to change it later on
12:45<Japa_>right.
12:46<Japa_>anyway, now I sleep. It's late, and I have work tomorrow
12:46<@planetmaker>sleep well, Japa_
12:47<@planetmaker>I believe it would be helpful to discuss the possible technical paths maybe with a wiki page before much time is spent on coding
12:47<@planetmaker>http://wiki.openttd.org/Terkhen/Scenario_format <-- something analogue to this
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12:50<Japa_>For now, have an animation I made while having entirely too much time on my hands at work
12:50<Japa_>http://youtu.be/94RPlA-QXcw
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14:29<Wolf01>o/
14:31<Sacro>\o
14:31<Wolf01>oh a Sacro :D
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14:32<Pikka>does it?
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15:06<andythenorth>andypeter
15:06<andythenorth>ho ho
15:06<andythenorth>oops
15:06<@Alberth> hi hi
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15:14<FLHerne>Evening
15:15<FLHerne>Is the svn-revision webinterface broken for everyone, or just me? http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/
15:16<Pikka>seems broken to me
15:17*FLHerne wonders where to file website-bug tickets
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15:19<@Alberth>trac being down is not a bug, it just happens every now and then ;)
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15:21<FLHerne>Surely having links to broken things is always a bug? :P
15:23<@Alberth>if you want to report web-site bugs, use the normal bug tracker, at the top you can select other projects than openttd
15:27<FLHerne>Alberth: Ah, I see it now :-)
15:27<frosch123>FLHerne: use hg.openttd.org
15:27<frosch123>it's better anyway
15:28<Tirili>Hey
15:28<Tirili>I am new to the game.
15:28<Tirili>Where can I send post cars to?
15:28<FLHerne>Other stations that supply mail
15:29<@Alberth>truck stations in a town
15:29-!-luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz
15:29<FLHerne>Passengers and mail are bidirectional - buildings that produce them also accept them
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15:31<Tirili>So I must build truck stations first?
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15:32<@Alberth>yes, at a place where you accept or supply mail
15:33<@Alberth>just like all other transports, first build a station, then send train/truck/bus etc
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15:35<luaduck>sorry about that spam, trying to get nickserv to like me
15:38*FLHerne didn't see any spam
15:42*luaduck was doing nickswapping
15:42<luaduck>so if you've got nick changes disabled in your client, you probably didn't see it
15:44<FLHerne>Why would you *not* disable that sort of thing? :P
15:47<Tirili>Alberth: I have created three truck stations next to city centers, but the mail truck which is driving between them doesn't carry any packages. :(
15:50<@Alberth>we need pictures or a save game to say anything
15:50<@Alberth>without it, it's just random guessing
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17:07<Tirili>ok
17:07<Tirili>and what could be reasons for a train not leaving the depot, although is has well defined task?
17:08<@planetmaker>signaling
17:10<Xaroth|Work>refusing to crash into another train, basically :P
17:10<@planetmaker>^^
17:11<Tirili>let me see
17:14<@planetmaker>good night
17:16<Elyon>Tirili: unpause?
17:16<Elyon>:D
17:16<Tirili>4 people just diead in my trains :(
17:17<FLHerne>Tirili: Did you force it past a signal?
17:17<Tirili>yea
17:17<Tirili>Is there a tutorial about sharing railwaytracks between multiple trains?
17:18<FLHerne>That's never a good idea - if it won't pass a signal, it almost always means passing it would cause a crash
17:18<Elyon>Tirili: look into signalling?
17:18<Tirili>It had the choice to go into another lane, but it didn't do so.
17:18<FLHerne>http://wiki.openttd.org/Signals
17:19<FLHerne>Tirili: Are you using block signals? Don't :P
17:21<Tirili>Thank you!
17:28<frosch123>night
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17:29<Elyon>Tirili: once you've got a basic network going, though, I'd advise you to go back to block (pre)signals
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17:48<Pikka>psh. PBS is all you need!
17:51<FLHerne>Elyon: Why? They're only useful in certain unusual situations
17:52<FLHerne>Great for prios or other regulation systems, but for signalling normal junctions and stations they just take up more space
17:53<Elyon>FLHerne: PBS takes time to decide sometimes
17:53<Elyon>which can severely slow down a main station, MSL, MSH and possibly mainline
17:53<Elyon>that's what made me go back to presignals
17:54<Elyon>for small pickup stations PBS is fine, but anything larger and I'd say presignals is better, gives you more control
17:55<Elyon>plus train choice
17:55<Elyon>minus decision delay
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17:56<Elyon>circumstantially PBS is fine or even awesome, but in general - and this might just be me (and others) - I'd use presignals unless there's a clear reason to use PBS over presignals in that specific case
17:57<Elyon>I used to think PBS was all you needed as well, though, until a few weeks back, mind you
17:57<V453000>Elyon, people are lazy and refuse to use brain :P
17:57<Elyon>I still use it for smaller pickup stations, and use the two-way PBS backwards to penalise paths although YAPF usually does that for me
17:58<Elyon>I was lazy and refused to use brain ;)
17:58<V453000>was :)
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17:58<Elyon>'text string' seems redundant
17:59<Elyon>'string' probably suffices
18:00<Wolf01>'night
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20:13<Aristide>Hop o/
20:13<Aristide>email to Sytral sended \o/
20:14<Aristide>On webpage about tramway line T5, Sytral website show a T5 extension map, but with ... T2 line name x)
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20:29<Tirili>Is there a way to save your standings in an online game and continue with your company one day later?
20:30-!-Hazzard [~43aefd2c@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
20:30<Hazzard>!playercount
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20:30<Elyon>Tirili: just save your game?
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20:31<Tirili>But when I reload in some days later, what will happen to the other players? Being taken over by ai?
20:42<Elyon>oh, like that. No, they should still be in there
20:42<Elyon>assuming they have their own companies, the companies will persist and continue existing
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21:39<Tirili>Thank you!
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---Logclosed Sat Feb 01 00:00:59 2014