--- | Log | opened Sat Feb 01 00:00:59 2014 |
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03:26 | <@planetmaker> | moin |
03:38 | <Japa_> | moin moin |
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04:07 | <andythenorth> | @seen pikka |
04:07 | <@DorpsGek> | andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 10 hours, 18 minutes, and 23 seconds ago: <Pikka> psh. PBS is all you need! |
04:07 | <andythenorth> | meh |
04:07 | <andythenorth> | upside down land |
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04:30 | * | LordAro mornings |
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05:20 | <@Alberth> | moin |
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05:27 | <@planetmaker> | moin |
05:35 | <Pikka> | boin |
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05:39 | <Elyon> | morning |
05:40 | <gogoprog> | hoi |
05:40 | <LordAro> | moin |
05:41 | <Elyon> | another day, another nfo nightmare |
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05:52 | <andythenorth> | bon Pikka chops |
05:52 | <andythenorth> | so maths.... |
05:53 | <Pikka> | oui oui |
05:53 | <Pikka> | not really |
05:53 | <Pikka> | mostly fudge |
05:53 | <andythenorth> | it's ok, I can do sums with fudge |
05:53 | * | andythenorth currently toddler wrangling |
05:54 | <andythenorth> | so no sums |
05:54 | <andythenorth> | :P |
05:54 | <Pikka> | incidentally, I just doubled the running costs for my trains (by increasing the multiplier by 1) ;) |
05:54 | <Pikka> | fun times |
05:57 | <Pikka> | I just realised I should put the vehicle I'm working on in a separate grf, rather than spend five minutes recompiling the whole thing every time I want to see my changes in-game... |
05:58 | <@peter1138> | just change the ini file |
05:58 | <@peter1138> | or was it xml? |
06:01 | <andythenorth> | Pikka: same problem in FIRS, there's a compiler flag I use to get one industry |
06:01 | <andythenorth> | otherwise I have to drink a lot of coffee |
06:02 | <@Alberth> | hyper andy :) |
06:02 | <andythenorth> | let's have a non-compiled newgrf format :P |
06:02 | <@planetmaker> | xml? |
06:02 | <@Alberth> | users just type the newgrf bytes |
06:02 | <andythenorth> | I would love writing code in xml :P |
06:03 | <andythenorth> | that would be super |
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06:03 | <@planetmaker> | and we send sheets of ascii characters which they need to type in? cool :) |
06:03 | <Pikka> | locomotion is xml... yuck. |
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06:08 | <andythenorth> | <node>0F 0A 02 16 FA FF 0C 20 10 1A FF FF</node> |
06:11 | <@planetmaker> | sounds totally legible |
06:14 | <andythenorth> | stupid OS X |
06:14 | <andythenorth> | ran out of battery and shut down |
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06:19 | <@Alberth> | shouldn't it be like <node><byte base="16">0F</byte> <byte base="16">0A</byte> <byte base="16">02</byte> <byte base="16">16</byte> <byte base="16">FA</byte> <byte base="16">FF</byte> <byte base="16">0C</byte> <byte base="16">20</byte> <byte base="16">10</byte> <byte base="16">1A</byte> <byte base="16">FF</byte> <byte base="16">FF</byte></node> ? |
06:21 | <andythenorth> | dunno, doesn't seem as user friendly as my suggestion |
06:21 | <andythenorth> | I think they key here is user friendliness |
06:22 | <andythenorth> | I could probably have the parser split on whitespace, write new nodes into the xml tree for the format you're suggesting |
06:22 | <andythenorth> | in fact we could have a compile step for it |
06:22 | <andythenorth> | Pikka: |
06:22 | <andythenorth> | oops |
06:22 | <andythenorth> | chep? |
06:22 | <Pikka> | andythenorth, |
06:23 | <andythenorth> | Fast and Power I actually need to provide values for per vehicle? |
06:25 | <Pikka> | yeah, they're the controls... if you leave them all the same, you'll get a progression of vehicles based on the year, but everything will be middle-of-the-road |
06:25 | <Pikka> | you can dial down power to get a shunter, dial up fast to get an express loco, etc. |
06:25 | <andythenorth> | hrm |
06:26 | <andythenorth> | let's see |
06:26 | <andythenorth> | I already have some fuel_run_cost_factor and fixed_run_cost_factor |
06:26 | <andythenorth> | which is copied from shipses |
06:26 | <Pikka> | :P |
06:26 | <andythenorth> | maybe I can put that into your formula |
06:26 | <andythenorth> | fixed_run_cost_factor = number of crew :P |
06:26 | <Pikka> | such hybrid fudgery! |
06:27 | <andythenorth> | for shame |
06:27 | <andythenorth> | where is the realism? |
06:27 | <Pikka> | dbset |
06:27 | <@Alberth> | andythenorth: I used a substitution expression s/\([0-9A-F][0-9A-F]\)/<byte base="16">\1<\/byte>/g |
06:28 | <andythenorth> | Alberth: I like that |
06:28 | <andythenorth> | ideally we need more / and \ characters |
06:28 | <andythenorth> | can we escape escapes? |
06:28 | <@Alberth> | \c\a\n\ \w\e\? |
06:29 | <Elyon> | \\\c\\\a\\\n\\\ \\\w\\\e\\\?, you mean? |
06:29 | <andythenorth> | Pikka: is 'fast' relative to other locos at the time, or is it a pure dibble? |
06:30 | <Pikka> | relative to other locos at the time |
06:30 | <andythenorth> | k |
06:31 | <Japa_> | is this some kind of automatic train grf generator? |
06:31 | <Pikka> | train stat generator, Japa_ |
06:32 | <Japa_> | it should generate graphics |
06:32 | <Japa_> | somehow |
06:33 | <andythenorth> | that has been doen |
06:33 | <andythenorth> | done * |
06:33 | <andythenorth> | I have an automatic truck set generator |
06:33 | <andythenorth> | but it was boring |
06:33 | <Pikka> | andy: "chep" is a cost debuff for trains below the tech level. It was a control, but it's now just an intermediate calculated value. |
06:34 | * | andythenorth does some codes |
06:41 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i have crude boxy generated sprites |
06:44 | <andythenorth> | some are better than crude? |
06:44 | <andythenorth> | I saw some wagons somewhere |
06:49 | <Eddi|zuHause> | everything that's better than crude is hand drawn |
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07:04 | <Wolf01> | hi hi |
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07:13 | <@Alberth> | hi hi |
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07:17 | <Pikka> | ho ho |
07:17 | <frosch123> | moin |
07:17 | <@planetmaker> | moin |
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07:45 | <nicferirc> | hu |
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08:04 | <andythenorth> | Pikka: does this look right for chep? :P |
08:04 | <andythenorth> | return (2-(fast+power), 1)[fast+power<=1] |
08:05 | <andythenorth> | you may point out that I have given you no language context :P |
08:05 | <Pikka> | I may |
08:05 | <Pikka> | it looks about right :P |
08:05 | <andythenorth> | (False, True)[test] |
08:05 | <Pikka> | si |
08:06 | <andythenorth> | output numbers look right |
08:07 | <andythenorth> | oh how funky |
08:07 | <andythenorth> | I'm calculating wagon running costs too :P |
08:07 | <Pikka> | I used much simpler calculations for wagons :P |
08:08 | <Pikka> | particularly since I don't have any generations, so statting by year is out |
08:09 | <andythenorth> | hrm |
08:09 | <andythenorth> | my buy numbers are coming out differently now |
08:09 | <@Alberth> | hmm, [fast|power] ? |
08:10 | <andythenorth> | ? |
08:11 | <@Alberth> | fast+power<=1 is 1 if at least one of them is true, right? fast|power is also true if at least one of them is true |
08:11 | <@Alberth> | s/also true/also 1/ |
08:12 | <@Alberth> | perhaps s/|/ or / if you're talking python |
08:12 | <andythenorth> | does a value >1 still evaluate to True? |
08:12 | <andythenorth> | I assume so |
08:12 | <@Alberth> | in python it does |
08:13 | <@Alberth> | although I am against use of boolean values :) |
08:13 | <@Alberth> | +such |
08:13 | <@Alberth> | but "fast or power" is just false or true |
08:14 | <@Alberth> | hmm return 2-(fast or power) should work too |
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08:17 | <Elyon> | is there something I should know about building sprite indices when using advanced sprite layouts? I've tried both the +42D approach, the \d0 approach, and the \d80000000 approach, all I get is random game sprites instead of the custom sprites I've loaded |
08:17 | <Elyon> | topic: newgrf/NFO |
08:21 | <Elyon> | haha |
08:21 | <Elyon> | it was the +42D approach plus the \dx80000000 approach |
08:21 | <Elyon> | well nevermind :D |
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08:30 | <efess> | Any admins here from tt-forums.net? |
08:30 | <LordAro> | probably |
08:33 | <@Alberth> | if you don't have login problems, usually, the easiest way is to press the ! button, and type them a pm |
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08:35 | <efess> | email activation isn't working :( |
08:36 | <efess> | also, seems like someone fixed this one, what's the process of getting it into trunk? http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5866 |
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08:37 | <LordAro> | orudge: ^ |
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08:40 | <andythenorth> | oic |
08:40 | <andythenorth> | oh he's gone :) |
08:43 | <Pokka> | who is? |
08:43 | -!- | Pokka is now known as Pikka |
09:04 | <andythenorth> | Pikka: HP - calculated? o_O |
09:04 | <Pikka> | everything is calculated |
09:05 | <Pikka> | except the fast and power controls :P |
09:05 | <andythenorth> | that makes sense |
09:05 | <andythenorth> | I didn't notice that at first :P |
09:06 | <Pikka> | and the introduction year |
09:06 | <andythenorth> | it's appealing to me because I'm lazy |
09:06 | <andythenorth> | but Dan likes to specify specific HP |
09:06 | <Pikka> | well |
09:06 | <andythenorth> | so I might hack at the formula a bit more |
09:06 | <Pikka> | you can wiggle the power control until you get the hp you want |
09:07 | <Pikka> | if you're targetting a particular hp |
09:07 | <andythenorth> | I am +1 to this, deciding stats is boring :P |
09:07 | <Pikka> | and it will adjust the costs, weights, etc, accordingly |
09:07 | <Pikka> | and you can wiggle the fast control if you're targetting a particular mph :P |
09:07 | <andythenorth> | I might steal this for SomeTruckSet |
09:08 | <Pikka> | do you want my spreadsheet for someothertruckset to look at? |
09:08 | <andythenorth> | why not |
09:08 | <Pikka> | let me prettify it a little first |
09:10 | <andythenorth> | MU capacity? |
09:10 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
09:10 | <andythenorth> | might ignore that for now |
09:10 | <Pikka> | it just adds a little to the running cost, it's fairly ignorable |
09:11 | <andythenorth> | ooh |
09:12 | <andythenorth> | negative running costs |
09:12 | <Pikka> | you broke it! |
09:12 | <andythenorth> | that's funky |
09:12 | <andythenorth> | I am not using calculated stats, it's breaks it :P |
09:12 | <andythenorth> | speed and power disagree with your table currently |
09:12 | <Pikka> | if you turn the knobs too hard it breaks, for sure |
09:12 | <Pikka> | prototypical HPs might be out of range |
09:13 | <Pikka> | real trains are way too powerful for TTD, trains which reach top speed half a tile out of the station and just stay there are boring :P |
09:13 | <andythenorth> | I think it's the wagons :) |
09:13 | <andythenorth> | they all have the same calc applied |
09:13 | <andythenorth> | hmm |
09:14 | <Pikka> | oh, wogans |
09:14 | <andythenorth> | anyone know how to uncrash python? o_O |
09:14 | <andythenorth> | ctrl-c is not worky |
09:14 | <@Alberth> | the >>> prompt? |
09:15 | <andythenorth> | nah, it's runing a script |
09:15 | <andythenorth> | the error handling crashes horribly |
09:15 | <@Alberth> | you don't want a stack dump or so? |
09:15 | <@Alberth> | how "crash" ? |
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09:19 | <@Alberth> | perhaps exception handling of nml can be inspirational :) https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository/entry/nml/main.py#L316 |
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09:24 | <andythenorth> | Alberth: gtg, but I'll paste something later ;) |
09:24 | <andythenorth> | somebody broke the error handling in python somehow |
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10:50 | <@planetmaker> | Alberth, in which package do I find g++ on fedora20? |
10:50 | <@Alberth> | ccache-3.1.9-4.fc20.x86_64 |
10:51 | <@Alberth> | very logical :p |
10:51 | <@Alberth> | just install all c/c++ development stuff :) |
10:52 | <@planetmaker> | I installed gcc as package description said it has also g++... but... well :) |
10:52 | <@planetmaker> | thanks :) |
10:53 | <@Alberth> | it probably does, ccache sounds like it's just caching complilations |
10:55 | <TinoDidriksen> | Yeah, ccache merely depends on gcc-g++ |
10:55 | <@planetmaker> | ah... gcc-c++ |
10:58 | <@planetmaker> | package names are a bit strange at times. But the system runs out-of box quite nicely |
10:58 | <@planetmaker> | only custom partitioning didn't didn't work out on install |
11:04 | <@Alberth> | upgrading to the next version also fails for me, I normally just re-install the OS from scratch |
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11:05 | <@planetmaker> | it wasn't upgrade. Virgin hard disk, no 'old' disks connected which could confuse it |
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11:11 | <@Alberth> | just telling you :) |
11:12 | <@planetmaker> | :) |
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12:45 | <@peter1138> | "i.e. a Factory can accept: Steel, Copper (rafined from Copper Ore), Aluminium (rafined from Bauxite), Lumber, Rubber, Plastic, Paper to produce goods" |
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12:45 | <@peter1138> | cos "Metal" is too complex? |
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12:47 | <@Alberth> | to make one big central do-everything factory :) |
12:50 | <slee> | ugh, i just realized you can't remove these antennas |
12:51 | <frosch123> | it's their only purpose |
12:52 | <Sacro> | sigh |
12:52 | <Sacro> | I need path based presignals |
12:52 | <Sacro> | I want a train to reserve through multiple signals |
12:52 | <@Alberth> | how is that different than one long block? |
12:56 | <Sacro> | Alberth: can get a shorter headway |
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12:57 | <@Alberth> | I don't understand, if a train has to reserve through 5 blocks, it cannot move until it has a path through 5 blocks, right? |
13:01 | <slee> | reading up on stand alone(dedicated) server for openttd...i can't find whether or not map size is still limitted to 2048x2048....can you make the map bigger on a server? i'm thinking of setting up a personal server on my mythbuntu box |
13:02 | <Sacro> | Alberth: yep |
13:02 | <Sacro> | but the train behind can go when it has cleared the first block |
13:02 | <Sacro> | not wait for it to clear the 5th |
13:02 | <frosch123> | Sacro: i believe there are two patches for that |
13:03 | <@Alberth> | how is the 2nd train going to reserve the block with the first train ? |
13:06 | <+glx> | slee: dedicated is just a client without video |
13:06 | <Sacro> | Alberth: you wouldn't have as many as 5 really |
13:06 | <+glx> | all calculation are done on both |
13:06 | <Sacro> | more like 2/3 on the entry to a station |
13:06 | <slee> | thanks |
13:06 | <frosch123> | Sacro: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=42675 <- patches in first and third post |
13:07 | <Sacro> | frosch123: thanks, but i'm fed up with patching |
13:07 | <Sacro> | I want infrastructure sharing, daylength, timetable seperation |
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13:07 | <Sacro> | and it to not desync constant |
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13:08 | <frosch123> | at least you do not want copy&paste :p |
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13:22 | <slee> | i installed the north american roads set and dropped one of each bridge to see what they looked like, the wooden bridge graphics are flawed..anyone experiencing that? |
13:24 | <@planetmaker> | known issue. newgrf bug |
13:24 | <slee> | k |
13:24 | <slee> | wasn't sure if maybe i had conflicting grfs(i'm a noob to openttd) |
13:45 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by translators :: r26288 trunk/src/lang/polish.txt (2014-02-01 18:45:14 UTC) |
13:45 | <@DorpsGek> | -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: |
13:45 | <@DorpsGek> | polish - 1 changes by wojteks86 |
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13:59 | <Pikka> | always the same problem with creating newgrfs |
13:59 | <Pikka> | you get about 60% done, then you just sit there watching the trains go by |
14:00 | <@Alberth> | that also happens to me when playing an OpenTTD game :) |
14:01 | <Pikka> | isn't that what you're supposed to do when playing an OpenTTD game? :P |
14:02 | <@Alberth> | it is for me :) |
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14:16 | <@planetmaker> | that sounds very familiar, Pikka :) |
14:18 | <Pikka> | http://i.imgur.com/1B0IoiE.png |
14:18 | <Pikka> | I suppose it has been a fairly productive couple of weeks, though :) |
14:22 | <@planetmaker> | 623M pota-ghat/ |
14:22 | <@planetmaker> | ;) |
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14:25 | <Pikka> | with 32bpp/ez becoming mainstream, the people who load up every newgrf they can find are going to find themselves running out of memory :) |
14:26 | <Taede> | remember theyll want to play on 2048x2048 maps, or bigger |
14:32 | <FLHerne> | Pikka: Not really, OTTD uses far less memory than most other things these days |
14:33 | <FLHerne> | I suspect the 'every grf' mindset may carry over into hardware, too |
14:35 | <Pikka> | hmm |
14:39 | <@planetmaker> | Pikka, there's at most 4GB of sprite memory which OpenTTD allows to allocate. And you can limit it further (but slowing things down) |
14:40 | <Pikka> | so I should be aiming to make a 4gb newgrf, is what you're saying? |
14:41 | <@planetmaker> | :D better not :) |
14:42 | <Xaroth|Work> | planetmaker: even on the x64 builds? |
14:42 | <@planetmaker> | Xaroth, yes... that's the max OpenTTD will try to allocate |
14:43 | <Xaroth|Work> | pff :P |
14:46 | <efess> | 4gb is so last year |
14:47 | <efess> | (joke) |
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14:49 | <FLHerne> | I keep making silly design mistakes in my hobby-project that make it eat GBs on a whim :-/ |
14:50 | <FLHerne> | I guess designing things that don't need million-element arrays of things is one of those important coding skills :P |
14:52 | <@planetmaker> | @calc 60000 * 256*128*4 / 1024/1024 |
14:52 | <@DorpsGek> | planetmaker: 7500 |
15:12 | <frosch123> | Taede: map size is irrelevant to memory usage compared to graphics |
15:12 | <frosch123> | and i think we do not support more than 2GB of sprite cache |
15:12 | <frosch123> | its all signed integeres or so :p |
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16:15 | <@Alberth> | V453000: are you supposed to have 2 Educated Horses after each other? (nuts 0.6.2) there is a hole between them in -- direction |
16:16 | <Taede> | i believe that is intentional, so that each engine is either half or full tile |
16:17 | <Taede> | so that you are never stuck with fractional trains (eg, 2.7 length) |
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16:21 | <@Alberth> | ah, makes sense, although I don't mind "weird" lengths |
16:22 | <Taede> | its to do with cornering speed as well |
16:23 | <Taede> | afaik a train with lots of short wagons, will corner a lot slower than an equal lenght train of longer wagons |
16:24 | <@Alberth> | higher train mathematics :) |
16:25 | <Taede> | it annoyed V |
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16:25 | <@Alberth> | sounds like something he may get annoyed with :) |
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16:31 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i thought it went faster because there are more wagons between the bends |
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17:09 | <DanMacK> | Hey all |
17:09 | <Xaroth|Work> | o/ |
17:09 | <DanMacK> | @seen andythenorth |
17:09 | <@DorpsGek> | DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 7 hours, 45 minutes, and 22 seconds ago: <andythenorth> somebody broke the error handling in python somehow |
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17:24 | <Tirili> | At which year does building planes start in openttd? |
17:25 | <@planetmaker> | http://wiki.openttd.org/Aircraft |
17:26 | <+glx> | 1928 |
17:27 | <Pikka> | unless you're using a newgrf which changes that |
17:27 | <@planetmaker> | 1945 in toyland |
17:27 | <@planetmaker> | or newgrfs, yes |
17:33 | <Tirili> | Thank you :) |
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18:48 | <slee> | does anyone know off the top of thier head when the first update for egrvts start? i started in year 1800...wondering if i started waaaay to early |
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18:50 | <slee> | or is there a url that lists what years vehicles update? vanilla and egrvts |
18:52 | <+glx> | 1800 is indeed early |
18:53 | <slee> | ok, what is a good year to start? |
18:58 | <slee> | nm, i see the first steam train starts in 1925, that'll work |
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19:52 | <Tirili> | Hey |
19:52 | <Tirili> | Which one is the strongest ai in openttd? |
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20:19 | <slee> | bah...starting a map is the hardest part of the game, as a noob, i have no foresight on track layouts |
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20:23 | <Xaroth|Work> | matter of experience tbh |
20:24 | <Tirili> | How can I start a game against an ai? |
20:24 | <slee> | adv.settings > competitors > computer players? |
20:28 | <Wolf01> | 'night |
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20:31 | <Tirili> | I didn't know that I have to run start_ai. |
20:31 | <Tirili> | Wondering though which ai is chosen after the 6 competitors that I did setup. |
20:31 | <Tirili> | I have about 10 ais in my game now. |
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--- | Log | closed Sun Feb 02 00:01:00 2014 |