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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-02-07

---Logopened Fri Feb 07 00:00:17 2014
00:24<Flygon>Pikka: Stop modelling your AI after the Australian Governments PT policies D:
00:25<Pikka>Flygon: I don't comment on operational matters
00:25<Flygon>"I'd just forgotten to tell it to borrow money before it tried, so it couldn't afford them."
00:25<Flygon>:P
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05:34<Jinassi>hya
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06:11<Eddi|zuHause>the only thing more annoying than a hungry cat is a bored cat
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06:13<Eddi|zuHause>well technically it sounds the same, except it doesn't stop by giving it food :p
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06:16<MNIM>Eddi|zuHause: have you tried giving it a dog, yet?
06:17<Eddi|zuHause>that would be cruel (for the dog)
06:22<MNIM>hmmmh.
06:22<MNIM>you don't know what dog I had in mind, I guess.
06:22<MNIM>my aunt has a few: notorious cat-killers.
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07:03<LSky>random question, are game scripts limited to 1 per game?
07:07<@planetmaker>random answer: yes
07:07<LSky>thats a shame :(
07:08<LSky>I like the idea of Industry Constructor, Im not sure if I wish to sacrifice the city building feature for that though
07:08<@planetmaker>combine them?
07:09<@planetmaker>if you come up with a way to ensure that GS can actually work modular in a sane way, please go ahead :)
07:09<LSky>well for now the industry thing is still giving me plenty of errors
07:09<LSky>I best report those first
07:09<@planetmaker>I think the thing missing with multiple GS is to devise actually the way that is technically supposed to work
07:10<@planetmaker>you don't want the mayhem in the same manner as you have with NewGRFs
07:10<Eddi|zuHause>LSky: you can turn one GS into a library and load it from the other
07:10<LSky>whats the mayhem with newgrfs?
07:10<Eddi|zuHause>LSky: or make a "glue" GS that uses both as library
07:10<@planetmaker>NewGRF a modifies property x
07:10<@planetmaker>NewGRF b modifies property x
07:10<Eddi|zuHause>LSky: in any case, programming knowledge is required
07:11<@planetmaker>the game then actually does something else than both, a and b intended, as modifications don#t make sense together
07:11<LSky>oh I understand what you mea
07:11<LSky>n
07:11<LSky>the logic is somewhat similar in patches, I suppose
07:12<@planetmaker>somewhat
07:12<LSky>they could be trying to change the same code
07:12<@planetmaker>and that means: you can't combine unless you know what you do. Thus you can combine the GS in the first place
07:12<@planetmaker>and openttd only needs to worry about one GS then
07:13<Eddi|zuHause>that's what i said
07:14<Eddi|zuHause>the only thing needed is that GS authors come up with an interface to freely combine their "libary" GS
07:14<@planetmaker>"only". yes
07:14<Eddi|zuHause>that way, the "glue" GS can be somewhat trivial to customize
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11:35<@Belugas>hello
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26315 /trunk/src/lang (4 files in 2 dirs) (2014-02-07 18:45:22 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>danish - 7 changes by phnoggie
13:45<@DorpsGek>frisian - 3 changes by Geoloep
13:45<@DorpsGek>hebrew - 16 changes by oofnik
13:45<@DorpsGek>latvian - 19 changes by Tranzistors
13:45<@Alberth>:o frisian updates :)
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13:48<@planetmaker>yeah, I approved a frisian translator a few days ago, that one
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14:03<andythenorth>o/
14:03<@planetmaker>'lo andythenorth :)
14:08<@Alberth>\o
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14:37<slee>ok, i'm going to attempt a 20 track station(roro) between a sawmill and factory(making it my central hub for goods), but i don't know the terminology to find out what the best way to lay the track to feed the station for efficiency, can someone tell me what to search for(images.google) or post a link to an image of an efficient entrance to this station?
14:38<@Alberth>openttdcoop.org
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14:38<@Alberth>hi Wolf01
14:39<Wolf01>hi hi
14:40<@planetmaker>slee, check out some of the games from the public server archive
14:41<slee>thanks
14:45<Miauw>Uh
14:45<Miauw>I'm playing with some guy
14:45<Miauw>Why are euros grayed out in the options menu?
14:45<Wolf01>because they happen in 2001
14:45<Miauw>Oooh, right
14:46<@planetmaker>:)
14:46<@planetmaker>choose the appropriate predecessor currency and it will convert in the right year
14:46<@planetmaker>alternatively use a custom currency and call it Euro :)
14:48<Miauw>Yeah.
14:48<Miauw>I made a custom currency called farts
14:48<Miauw>Because I'm mature like that
14:49<Wolf01>I think we need to introduce a table to keep the change price of all the currencies day by day, and keep the base cost of all in dollars, so you need to check the market to find which currency is better to use when you need to purchase something
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14:56<valhallasw>Wolf01: Why in dollars? I want to buy my TIM in francs!
14:57<Wolf01>eh, all in the game is produced and imported from outside
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15:45<Der_Herr>hi
15:45<Der_Herr>can someone tell me how to check out the latest stable release via svn?
15:47<@planetmaker>svn co svn://svn.openttd.org/tags/1.3.3
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15:48<Der_Herr>ok thank you
15:48<Der_Herr>is it improvable by something like svn co svn://svn.openttd.org/tags/lateststable ?
15:49<Zuu>You can get the last stable version from http://finger.openttd.org/versions.txt
15:49<@planetmaker>if you're up for an auto-updater, see our wiki for available methods
15:49<@Alberth>source of latest stable is not that useful, since there are binaries and you can download source zips or tarballs
15:49<@planetmaker>it's useful for building server binaries, Alberth :)
15:50<__ln__>Der_Herr: i was asked to remind you about the difference between the words 'das' and 'daß'. therefore, be reminded now.
15:50<@planetmaker>our servers indeed curl the finger.txt and update accordingly
15:50<@planetmaker>__ln__, it's spellt 'dass' ;)
15:50<@Alberth>ok :)
15:51<Zuu>The wiki article that planetmaker had in mind is probably this one http://wiki.openttd.org/OTTD_Updaters
15:51<@planetmaker>thanks ^ :)
15:53<Der_Herr>thats very nice __ln__ but i know the difference between das und daß/dass very excellent
15:53<@planetmaker>when you last exit this channel, you didn't ;)
15:53<__ln__>planetmaker: you're the second person to tell me that within a week, so i should probably find out about the new rules of spelling.
15:53<@planetmaker>Der_Herr, i.e. correct the spelling of your IRC quit message
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16:00<Miauw>Can boats dock on canals?
16:01<@planetmaker>boats can dock on docks and on oil rigs
16:01<Der_Herr>you are right
16:01<Der_Herr>i corrected it
16:01<@planetmaker>you can build docks on canal water
16:01<@Alberth>build a little mountain next to the water
16:05<Miauw>Ooh
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16:21<Miauw>How do you rotate the map?
16:22<andythenorth>ugh docks on canals :P
16:22<andythenorth>also
16:22*andythenorth -> bed :)
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16:29<@Alberth>Miauw: you cannot, but 'x' toggles transparency options
16:29<Miauw>Oh, alright.
16:29<@Alberth>and ctl-x configures them
16:30<Miauw>I'm playing with a friend and he insists that he managed to rotate twice
16:30<__ln__>http://www.montrealgazette.com/business/Bosnias+highspeed+rail+dreams+fleet+trains+nowhere/9164894/story.html
16:30<@planetmaker>I can rotate, too. But the monitor is heavy
16:30<@Alberth>get him to tell how he did it, and let us know, we'd like that option too :)
16:31<@Alberth>planetmaker: just rotate yourself :)
16:31<@planetmaker>sitting on my head? Na, that hurts more than rotating the monitor :P
16:32<@Alberth>good point :)
16:33<@planetmaker>on the other hand... 90° rotations, there it might be the more convenient option :) zzzz ZZZZ zzz :P
16:33<Taede>take screenshot, load in favorite image editor?
16:34<@planetmaker>I often tried to click trains or move map. It always failed with screenshots, Taede
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16:35<GNA>Hello. I need help configuring Aphid's CityBuilder for OpenTTD. Who here can help me out?
16:36<@planetmaker>what's the problem?
16:36<GNA>The problem is I haven't the slightest idea what any of the options do.
16:36<GNA>I'm a TTD pro, but CityBuilder is new for me.
16:37<@planetmaker>don't they come with some help text when you hover the mouse over the options?
16:37<GNA>What I want is to have the same settings as on Reddit server #2.
16:37<GNA>In game yes, in the config options no.
16:37<@planetmaker>then you might better ask the reddit guys?
16:37<GNA>There's a readme, but it's not exactly made for laymen, if you get what I mean.
16:37<GNA>I did. They sent me here.
16:38<@planetmaker>:D
16:38<@planetmaker>they've several servers. Some are even patched servers. I don't know which scripts they use nor any of their configurations
16:39<GNA>Well, do you know how to configure a GS?
16:39<GNA>Cause I can sum up what I want, if that's the issue.
16:40<GNA>I'm currently running nightly r26298 + FIRS, and a ton of landscape, vehicle, and object mods.
16:40<@planetmaker>the online content doesn't know a "Aphid's citybuilder". Thus I don't know and cannot even look what it looks like
16:40<GNA>It's called CityBuilder in BaNaNas.
16:40<@planetmaker>there are several city builder scripts. Probably each has its own strength and weakness
16:41<GNA>However, it won't show up unless you're running the latest nightly.
16:41<Miauw>Alberth: That's the problem
16:41<Miauw>He doesn't know how he did it
16:41<Miauw>And he wants to rotate it back to normal :P
16:42<@Alberth>:)
16:42<@planetmaker>right I have never configured that GS either. But let's see:
16:42<frosch123>GNA: they probably meant to send you to #/r/openttd
16:42<frosch123>because that's their chanel
16:43<GNA>Ah, so I should go bother those people with my questions instead then? ;P
16:43<frosch123>though i cannot remember whether it is #/r/openttd or #r/openttd
16:43<GNA>I'll give it a go. Thanks, guys.
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16:43<Andreas>the hardest part of setting up aphids with an industry newgrf is figuring out the cargo id's and setting the right requirements
16:43<Andreas>oh
16:43<Andreas>too late
16:43<Andreas>XD
16:44<@planetmaker>oh. my. god. That GS has a truely insane amount of parameters
16:44<@planetmaker>I didn't see the extend I could scroll there...
16:44<frosch123>it's like basecost mod :p
16:44<@planetmaker>worse
16:45<@planetmaker>"cargo #12 (uu) transition length:
16:45<@planetmaker>etc
16:46<Andreas>yes, indeed that is for setting up the requirements in industry sets, you have to figure out what cargo has what ID
16:46<@planetmaker>basecosts has how many? 60-odd entries?
16:46<frosch123>Andreas: do you know the homepage of firs?
16:46<Andreas>and then set requirements, population on which it is needed and decay rate for each
16:47<Andreas>well yes frosch123, but still need to set 3 parameters for each cargo
16:47<Andreas>+ some aditional stuff
16:47<@planetmaker>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/LATEST/docs/html/code_reference.html
16:47<frosch123>ok, just wanted to point out that it lists the ids
16:48<frosch123>hmm, actually newgrf wiki may be better
16:48<frosch123>it also lists ecs
16:48<frosch123>planetmaker: you can make it more settings by adding them for each known cargolabel :)
16:48<@planetmaker>:D
16:50<@planetmaker>newgrf wiki doesn't have the IDs listed in the cargo label page (maybe implicitly by the un-numbered rows)
16:50<frosch123>ah right, pikka killed the list
16:51<@planetmaker>not needed really... newgrfs should not care about the ID :)
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17:25<Pikka>lies
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17:55<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26316 trunk/src/newgrf_object.cpp (2014-02-07 22:55:33 UTC)
17:55<@DorpsGek>-Feature [FS#5696]: Extend object variable 0x60 to also return the view.
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18:17<lumlum>hello fellow openttd fans ;)
18:18<@planetmaker>hi
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18:19<lumlum>quick question: why can vehicles make more deficit than they have running costs?
18:19<Eddi|zuHause>transfer
18:20<Eddi|zuHause>if one vehicle in the chain overestimates its influence, the last vehicle gets this difference added as negative income
18:20<Eddi|zuHause>use the "fraction of feeder share" setting to compensate
18:23<lumlum>searching this in advanced settings doesnt get a result - is the setting "percentage of leg profit to pay in feeder systems"? this is set to 75%, what would be a better value?
18:24<Eddi|zuHause>yes, that one. lower it if you experience lots of negative income
18:24<Eddi|zuHause>or optimise your transfer chains
18:24<Eddi|zuHause>don't transport backwards, and have vehicles with roughly equal speed in all chains
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18:26<lumlum>i got subway trains to feed mainstation of a city and then transport the passengers to other mainstations with shinkansens eg
18:27<Eddi|zuHause>also, reduce times the trains wait at stations to be loaded
18:28<lumlum>the trains just enter a station, load whats there and leave ... most of the time this enough to fill the train completely
18:29<lumlum>just set it to 50% and running fast forward ^^
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18:39<Wolf01>'night all
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18:49<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26317 /trunk/src (13 files in 3 dirs) (2014-02-07 23:48:56 UTC)
18:49<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5897]: Check whether NewGRF change vehicle capacity when they are not supposed to, and truncate cargo appropiately if they are allowed to.
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18:49<frosch123>night
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19:18<Pikka>ooh
19:18<Pikka>I crashed OpenTTD, haven't done that for a while.
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19:20<Hazzard>ooh fun
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20:52<Pikka>oops, did it again
20:53<Pikka>it's a divide by 0...
20:53<Pikka>spose I should update my nightly just to make sure
20:55<Japa__>Also stop being Brittany.
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23:39<Pikka>it's too warm for this many mathematics, I'm turning the AC on...
---Logclosed Sat Feb 08 00:00:14 2014