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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-02-15

---Logopened Sat Feb 15 00:00:53 2014
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01:55<zwamkat>Crew, I've setup a 1.3.3 stable server. (linux) All works just fine. On my client I've crafted a savegame with a few newgrf's. How can I make sure my server has the same newgrfs available as my client? My client can make changes based on the savegame. How do achieve this on my server? I'm not sure I understand the syntax of the console commands.
02:10<@planetmaker>zwamkat, you cannot join with a client a server which has different NewGRFs. The server console knows the rcon command content update and friends to obtain content from bananas
02:11<@planetmaker>other content you have to manually place in the appropriate dirs of the server
02:11<@planetmaker>good morning also everyone :)
02:11<@planetmaker>rcon password "content update"
02:14<zwamkat>planetmaker: Morning! I know I need matching newgrfs. I was hoping to invoke the 'automatic update' mechanism found in the client, on the server.
02:22<@planetmaker>that does not exist in that form for a server
02:23<@planetmaker>the server won't load the game, though, if it misses NewGRFs. You'll then quickly notice it
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03:55<@Alberth>maybe we should make a townname newgrf generator service :p
03:56<@Alberth>or build it into openttd :D
04:12<Pikka>Alberth: charge tree fiddy, make a fortune! :)
04:12<@Alberth>:o good idea :p
04:12<@Alberth>perhaps as funding for devzone :)
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04:14<@planetmaker>hm, Alberth that's an idea. Might be easier than a general "upload nml+lng files"
04:15<@planetmaker> <-- I've started this so far. But it's not yet quite safe to use for the general public
04:16<@planetmaker>upload of an nml file and graphics in a zip and another with the lang files is needed there
04:16*Alberth likes the cloud with rain :)
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04:51<@planetmaker>so... time to upload the final versions of the entrances for the titlegame competition :)
04:54<fonsinchen>Nothing new from me. I'll stick with what I've already uploaded.
04:55<@planetmaker>updating screenshots also always blocks my machine... flashing the screen with titlegames till all are gathered :D
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04:59<@Alberth>titlegame movie!
04:59<@planetmaker>the way it appears here on screen it's more suitable to cause epileptic seizurse :D
04:59<@planetmaker>flash, flash, flash, flash,... :P
05:00<@Alberth>use all cores up raise the framerate :p
05:01<@planetmaker>:D could actually do that, I guess
05:01<@planetmaker>threaded bash scripts... hm :)
05:04<@Alberth>smatz once wrote a script for testing whether all #include lines are needed, it also runs g++ in parallel
05:05<@Alberth>perhaps make -j6 is the easiest solution :)
05:06<@planetmaker>maybe that would work, yes, but so far it's very simple:
05:06<@planetmaker>and I don't run it terribly often :)
05:07<@planetmaker> <-- applies :D
05:08<@planetmaker>with yearly repetition and time to shave off being in the order of 5 minutes. Hm...
05:08<@planetmaker>25 minutes?
05:09<@Alberth>it omitted the fun factor :p
05:09<@planetmaker>ah, for 5 years. So yeah :)
05:09<@planetmaker>true :)
05:09<@Alberth>oh, zbase too
05:09<@planetmaker>yes, everyone
05:10<@planetmaker>only fair, I think
05:10<@planetmaker>and there is meanwhile a substantial amount of players who seem to use it, I think
05:10<@planetmaker>NightGFX surely is more for the sake of completeness, IMHO. But then, doesn't really hurt to generate
05:11<@Alberth>I should try that one time, all screenshots look just totally black with some yellow in it to me, no idea if it's playable
05:12<@Alberth>probably only when it's dark outside :)
05:12<@planetmaker>summary pages aren't generated yet as it still uploads... You'll see it conveniently when upload finished and triggered web page generation :D
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06:03<@planetmaker>hm... all savegames and screenshots are a whopping 700MiB
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06:07<TheStevens>do the default and cargo-specific spritegroups need to be in a particular order in the graphics block to work correctly?
06:07<@planetmaker>not that I know.
06:08<@planetmaker>is JapaneseSet on the roll again? :)
06:10<TheStevens>supplementary question, would defining a recolor sprite for a cargo label through the default graphics option somehow override the cargo-specific entry?
06:11<@planetmaker>I don't understand that question
06:12<@planetmaker>but if you define an entry for a cargo in the action3, then that is assumed the grapics decision path for that cargo and it probably should also be able to return a real sprite
06:12<@planetmaker>thus I expect it to override the defaults
06:13<@planetmaker>thus I'd not expect the branch to be taken, if you have a cargo-specific branch already
06:13<TheStevens>nor would I
06:13<@planetmaker>and the recolour sprite being ineffective... but... dunno
06:14<@Alberth>hi hi andy
06:14<TheStevens>I am 99.9% sure I'm doing something stupid
06:14<TheStevens>this is probably the one time I've found NFO to be simpler to get working.
06:19<TheStevens>and yes.
06:19<TheStevens>I was doing something stupid
06:20<TheStevens>note to self: make sure you're point to the right realsprites before doing anything else.
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07:05<Tuiq>Quick question: Do I need to install libsdl or compile ottd myself to get it running as a dedicated server on Linux? -D still seems to require libsdl and all forum posts are years old
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07:09<LordAro>i'd expect so
07:09<LordAro>morning all, btw :)
07:10<frosch123>Tuiq: if you compile yourself, use "./configure --enable-dedicated" to compile without video backends like sdl
07:10<frosch123>if you use the prebuild binaries, you will need sdl
07:10<Tuiq>I'm always afraid of compiling stuff myself on Linux
07:10<Tuiq>(wasn't there a time when dedicated were offered too?)
07:10<frosch123>i would be afraid on compiling stuff myself on other platforms than linux :p
07:11<frosch123>i think that time ended 2008 or so
07:11<Tuiq>Yeah well, seeing that I've played around 2007/2008, that sounds acceptable
07:12<Tuiq>Back then, everything was better!1
07:13<frosch123>hmm, i think nightgfx is slightly mislabeled
07:13<frosch123>all windows in factories are lighted, while only few ones are lighted in normal houses
07:13<frosch123>so, it's obviously during working hours
07:14<frosch123>during a solar eclipse or so
07:14<@Rubidium>then it must be winter in a nordic area
07:14<frosch123>for polar nights there is not enough snow
07:14<Tuiq>global warming
07:15<@Rubidium>frosch123: as if there is enough snow in Sochi for winter olympics
07:15*Rubidium wonders when the winter olympics are hold in the Malediven or so
07:15<frosch123>i wouldn't notice :p
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07:17<Tuiq>I've heard Qatar has been nominated
07:17<Pikka>we could probably do one here
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07:17<Pikka>36 degrees tomorrow
07:19<@Rubidium>Pikka: Celsius or Fahrenheit?
07:19<Pikka>no, celcius.
07:19<Tuiq>Kelvin doesn't use degrees
07:19<@planetmaker>^ :)
07:19<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r26338 /trunk/src (main_gui.cpp viewport.cpp) (2014-02-15 12:19:46 UTC)
07:19<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5908]: Don't redraw the link graph overlay if it's empty (MJP)
07:21<Pikka>possibly angular, then
07:21<LordAro>so, when is MJP getting added as a developer? ;)
07:21<Pikka>or longitude
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07:23<TheStevens>dem parallels
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07:29<Tuiq>as I've expected, compiling openttd is a pain
07:30<frosch123>"apt-get build-dep openttd" sounds easy to me
07:30<Tuiq>there's no build-dep package
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07:32<Tuiq>except I don't have root access myself on that server, so apt-get is kind of not available
07:32<@Rubidium>then how would you install other dependencies of OpenTTD?
07:33<Tuiq>... ideally they would already have been installed! That's how much of an optimist I am
07:33<fonsinchen>You could compile them all manually and install them into your home. That IS a pain, though.
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07:34<TheStevens>unknown property name: default_cargo_type. hm.
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07:36<frosch123>sounds like you installed nml 0.2 and try to compile source meant for nml 0.3
07:37<@planetmaker>Tuiq, can you compile and run in a chroot?
07:37<TheStevens>how have I not noticed this before now
07:37<Tuiq>I have no idea what a chroot is
07:38<@Rubidium>planetmaker: the first question is whether he even may start a chroot (AFAIK it requires root access)
07:38<@planetmaker>hm, might be
07:38<@planetmaker>Tuiq, a pseudo-root environment
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07:38<Tuiq>I'm just a parasite on that vserver, I don't have any root power whatsoever
07:39<@Rubidium>schroot doesn't require root, but... must (AFAIK) be configured as root
07:39<Tuiq>Let's see if I can compile it on a vm and then upload it
07:39<FLHerne>Tuiq: chroot essentially says 'ok, pretend [arbitrary directory] is root'
07:39<Tuiq>Yeah, I'd need a valid VM first. I've ruined this one.
07:40<Tuiq>I guess I'll have to wait until the guy with (real) root rights comes back
07:40<Tuiq>At this point I'm somewhat more inclined to just install libsdl though
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07:43<bolli>Is there a known desync issue with the current beta? (1.4.0 beta4)
07:44<frosch123>there are rumours about unknown desync issues
07:45<fonsinchen>We're always very curious about reproducing those. If you can help us in any way, please do.
07:45<bolli>Well, I've got an issue whereby I get desynced after about 2 minutes...
07:46<@planetmaker>I saw a desync the other day on coop's stable/testing server, too
07:46<fonsinchen>That bollibackup.sav would be quite interesting.
07:46<@planetmaker>was it fixed that a faulty newgrf can cause them?
07:47<@planetmaker>I'm still unsure what about the nuts desync issue
07:47<fonsinchen>frosch123 did something about newgrfs randomly changing vehicle capacity. It's not proven that this is the reason for any real world desync, though.
07:48<bolli>lnock yourself out
07:48<fonsinchen>Thank you
07:48<frosch123>the capacity issues was with the 2cc set
07:48<@planetmaker>fonsinchen, iirc that added an error - but does it mean that the game would stop?
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07:49<frosch123>planetmaker: unless it causes the game to crash, that 2cc issue is capable of causing desyncs
07:50<@planetmaker>so I can still have desyncs with the "right" NewGRF(s)?
07:50<frosch123>the fix is not in beta4, is it?
07:50<@planetmaker>ah, that might be
07:50<fonsinchen>It's r26317
07:50<@planetmaker>but I'm very sure we don't use 2ccts on stable server
07:51<fonsinchen>And the capacity change will now be ignored and cause a warning if done from the wrong place.
07:52<@planetmaker>as does length
07:56<fonsinchen>The desync isn't obvious, but the save is relatively small. I'll create a bugreport from it.
07:56<bolli>Its stopped happening after leaving the server idle for a while and rejoining
07:57<frosch123>i would think that's the usual case for desyncs
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07:59<frosch123>hmm 1400 already, and i still was not shopping
08:00<@planetmaker>I luckily did that last evening :)
08:00<Eddi|zuHause>last time i counted, it was 2014
08:00<frosch123>no shopping past 2000 here
08:00<fonsinchen>In 1400 you don't go shopping anyway.
08:01<frosch123>well, light signals are introduced in 1492
08:01<fonsinchen>Columbus did it.
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08:54<Afdal>I'm having an issue where
08:54<Afdal>clicking the "find servers" button in multiplayer
08:54<Afdal>seriously messes up my router
08:55<Afdal>Such that I have to restart it to fix my connection
08:55<Afdal>Has anyone ever heard of anything like this before?
08:55<Afdal>I have not experienced this with any other game, but I believe this has been an issue for me for quite some time now, I just didn't realize until now exactly what it was.
08:56<Afdal>Probably been happening as far back as 1.3.0
08:57<@Rubidium>if your router can't handle it, then your router is broken
08:58<bolli>What model of router?
08:58<@Rubidium>OpenTTD already limits the amount of traffic it sends out because of such broken routers, but apparantly your one is even more broken
08:58<Afdal>A Linksys WRT54GS
08:58<Afdal>But why is it only OpenTTD though?
08:59<Afdal>And it happens on Linux too
08:59<@Rubidium>anyhow, limiting it even more will make the showing the list extremely slow
08:59<Afdal>so it's very specific to OpenTTD itself
08:59<Afdal>Showing the servers is actually pretty quick, what happens is it
08:59<Afdal>messes up my connection speed and causes me to disconnect every30 seconds or so afterwards
08:59<@Rubidium>we only have a list of servers as: IP + port, the rest is gathered from the actual game servers itself
08:59<Afdal>It's really bizarre
09:00<@Rubidium>apparantly your router can't handle sending out a small packet to all those servers
09:01<@Rubidium>then the servers will reply with their name and some game statistics
09:01<Afdal>I don't have this happen with any other game server browsers though D:>
09:02<@Rubidium>because with those the "master server" of that game is gathering all information and sends that in one stream to you
09:02<Afdal>by what causes the router to go loopy
09:03<Afdal>unable to recover until I reboot it?
09:03<Afdal>This keeps going after I close OpenTTD and such
09:03<Afdal>Only after a network guy came over to do some maintenance on my hardware
09:03<LordAro>if it continues after OTTD is closed, it's definitely a hardware issue
09:03<Afdal>did I realize it was the router and more specifically OpenTTD
09:04<@Rubidium>so... basically: with other games you have a HTTP/FTP download with all the data from their master server. With OpenTTD the master server is more like a torrent tracker, and the different servers send you the actual data
09:04<Afdal>But only OpenTTD causes it @_@
09:05<bolli>Have you actually tried anything that behaves similar to openttd?
09:06<bolli>that looks similar
09:06<Afdal>well I don't have any trouble using torrents
09:07<Afdal>That does sound like the same issue though
09:07<Afdal>Lemme try running a torrent right now just to be sure
09:08<@Rubidium>it will probably only trigger if you get data from over 200 different uploaders
09:08<Afdal>Why that number?
09:08<@Rubidium>just a guestimate
09:09<@Rubidium>but there are about 250 server, and that number slowly increases over time
09:09<@Rubidium>arguably long long ago you didn't have the problem, so I guestimate that must've been before we had 200+ servers
09:10<Afdal>yeah once upon a time this definitely wasn't an issue
09:10<@Rubidium>because the design has not changed since it was introduced
09:10<Afdal>So it's an old hardware limitation of my router possibly?
09:10<@Rubidium>well, maybe it's just inefficient firmware
09:10<Afdal>Has anyone else ever brought up an issue like this?
09:11<Afdal>Is it mostly recently?
09:11<Afdal>after that 200+ was reached?
09:11<@Rubidium>back then we changed it from: query all servers at once to: query them slightly more slowly
09:12<Afdal>Is there a way I can test this
09:12<Afdal>modifying something
09:12<Afdal>to slow down the query rate?
09:13<Afdal>Gotta compile it myself though huh
09:13<Afdal>What all do you need to compile OpenTTD?
09:14<@Rubidium>see the wiki page on compiling for your platform
09:14<frosch123>apt-get build-dep openttd
09:17<@Rubidium>anything I can quickly find regarding that issue was more than 5 years go
09:19<Tuiq>I'm a bit confused about content managing on dedicated servers...
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09:20<Afdal>Well thanks for the help Rubidium
09:20<Afdal>I didn't expect anyone to have any insight into this
09:22<Afdal>I wonder if there's a setting on my router I can change to fix this
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09:23<bolli>I doubt it
09:23<bolli>Looks like its running out of memory...
09:23<bolli>Get a better router?
09:23<Tuiq>Do I have to use `content` to install stuff? Can't I just upload the .tars to content_download?
09:25<bolli>I found the easiest way is to run "content select all" then "content download"
09:25<Afdal>Well I guess I'll try upgrading the firmware first
09:25<Afdal>I don't think I've ever done that
09:27<LordAro>Tuiq: you can, but it's not recommended
09:27<LordAro>is there a reason you can't use the ingame stuff>
09:27<Tuiq>I don't exactly fancy grepping 3500 lines to get 5 ids
09:27<LordAro>..why do you want to do that?
09:28<Tuiq>I don't understand Bananas
09:28<Tuiq>at all.
09:28<LordAro>What's not to understand?
09:28<Tuiq>I would expect that if I download something on my client, then upload said content_download to the server, that the server has downloaded it too
09:28<Tuiq>but that's not the case
09:29<+michi_cc>MJP: Is there a reason (besides lazy-ness ;) why you didn't try to unify the drawing code in your zoom out to smallmap-like patch with the real smallmap drawing code? Having very similar code twice isn't really something we're fond of, and maybe the smallmap could also profit from the 32bpp improvements.
09:29<LordAro>Tuiq: if you copy the folder to the server, it will work
09:29<LordAro>as long as you've put it in the right palce
09:29<@Alberth>you may have to restart the program or press "rescan files"
09:29<Tuiq>LordAro: Well, then ottd isn't loading it
09:29<Tuiq>It's loading some file, a town replacement grf, but not the other stuff
09:30<@Alberth>stuff isn't loaded until it is needed for a game
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09:30<LordAro>what's the output you're seeing which shows the other files aren't being read?
09:31<Tuiq>There's no output at all; the client doesn't show the content however
09:31<Tuiq>In this case, it's a bunch of station addons - industrial renewal for example
09:32<@planetmaker> content update
09:32<@planetmaker> content select all
09:32<@planetmaker> content download
09:33<Tuiq>It's wiping the [newgrf] section
09:33<@planetmaker>for savegames the newgrf section of your cfg is totally irrelevant
09:33<Tuiq>It's not a savegame
09:33<Tuiq>... openttd -D doesn't load a savegame, does it
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09:34<@planetmaker>no, not unless you specify one
09:34<Tuiq>yeah, I don't
09:34<MJP>michi_cc, it was my first patch, at that time, having something that worked was awesome by itself. then the drawing style of the smallmap is quite "specific" with the 4 colours blocks... tbh I have not look inside the smallmap for a long time, maybe there is possible deduplication but I don't remember of any
09:34<Tuiq>I copy [newgrf] from my client to my server and the server deletes the section
09:34<+michi_cc>Tuiq: Client is Windows and servier Linux? Change \ to / then
09:35<Tuiq>That's it
09:35<Tuiq>Thanks! I'm not going to question why it worked for one of the GRFs...
09:40<+michi_cc>MJP: Last time I looked at it (many moons ago) I seemed to me that many functions are very similar in structure and mostly only differ because the smallmap is drawn differently. Unifying would probably mean unifying the drawing styles. I don't think it would hurt the viewport if the area redrawn is bigger than the dirty rect, which means the smallmap blocks could maybe be kept.
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09:58<bolli>another desync
09:58<bolli>no save this time :(
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10:00<Afdal>Is there perhaps a way to browse servers without using the client?
10:01<@DorpsGek>Commit by michi_cc :: r26339 trunk/projects/openttd_vs90.sln (2014-02-15 15:01:32 UTC)
10:01<@DorpsGek>-Revert (r26305): Accidental changes to the VS9.0 solution file disabling the x64 build.
10:02<@Alberth>Afdal: ?
10:03<Afdal>thank you
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10:10<fonsinchen>bolli: Just a shot in the dark ... What operating system are you using?
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10:12<bolli>win 7
10:12<bolli>server is on Ubuntu 12.04.4 LTS
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10:13<fonsinchen>Could you attach any additional info to the flyspray task?
10:14<fonsinchen>It's a good idea to have logs available from client and server.
10:15<bolli>I've tried making the client log
10:16<bolli>starting it with -d desync=1 doesn't produce a log
10:17<frosch123>-d desync=2
10:17<bolli>ok, set to 2
10:17<frosch123>it writes the log into the autosave fodler
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10:18<frosch123>actually -d desync=3 is max
10:18<@planetmaker>bolli, when I try to obtain more debug info, I usually do the following
10:18<@planetmaker>rcon set debuglevel desync=3
10:18<@planetmaker>rcon save desync_start
10:18<frosch123>but that creates a savegame every few seconds, and fills your disk :p
10:18<@planetmaker>rcon load desync_start
10:18<@planetmaker>that way it ensures that there's a defined starting point from which a desync can be traced
10:19<@planetmaker>mind the order to first set debuglevel, then (re)load the savegame
10:19<bolli>If I get it to the point that it happens repeatedly, I will do
10:19<bolli>I've added logs now:
10:20<@planetmaker>well, also helps when it happens sporadically
10:20<@planetmaker>or especially then :)
10:20<@planetmaker>but you will need to have sufficient disk space available
10:20<@planetmaker>and clean the autosave folder upon loading a new map
10:20<@planetmaker>if nothing happend
10:20<@planetmaker>especially sporadic desyncs are hard to track and require this patience
10:21<bolli>Yeah, disk space is a premium on the server
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10:22<bolli>desync level 2 appears to have crashed the game
10:22<bolli>or stopped it from responding at least
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10:37<frosch123>hmm, some animal farm produces lots of "discarding persistent storage changes"
10:37<frosch123>i wonder what that is
10:40<Eddi|zuHause>andy being andy, probably :p
10:40<frosch123>it's ecs though
10:40<Eddi|zuHause>then it's George being George :)
10:41<Afdal>I like the change from LAN/internet
10:41<Afdal>to Advertised: Yes/No
10:41<Afdal>That's a big clearer
10:41<frosch123>blame pm
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10:50<@planetmaker>uhm... :P
10:50<@planetmaker>did I really suggest LAN/internet?
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11:22<@Alberth>seems the other way around
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11:36<@planetmaker>STR_NETWORK_SERVER_LIST_CAPTION :{WHITE}Multiplayer
11:36<@planetmaker>STR_NETWORK_SERVER_LIST_ADVERTISED :{BLACK}Advertised
11:36<@planetmaker>STR_NETWORK_SERVER_LIST_ADVERTISED_TOOLTIP :{BLACK}Choose between an advertised (internet) and a not advertised (Local Area Network, LAN) game
11:36<@planetmaker>so it's possibly just not instable :)
11:37<@planetmaker>s/instable/in stable/
11:39<@Alberth>I didn't look there, should have started there of course :)
11:39<@planetmaker>yes, stable branch has it still different
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11:40<@Alberth>paying tribute to its name :)
11:40<@planetmaker>but afdal is not here anymore, so won't learn that his suggestion is done already for long :D
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12:29<andythenorth>"take poll here"
12:30<Pikka>take two and call me in the morning
12:30<andythenorth>if symptoms persist, stop using
12:31<andythenorth>lo pikka
12:31<andythenorth>did you finish it?
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12:32<Pikka>for given values of "finish" and "it". and "did", probably.
12:34<Wolf01> nice
12:34<andythenorth>I didn't finish it :)
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12:36*andythenorth is in a bored patch
12:36<andythenorth>I have been prescribed curry and wine
12:36<andythenorth>a proven solution
12:37<@planetmaker>curry and wine? Sounds like a solution to a lot of things :)
12:37<@planetmaker>but not a solution for weight watchers :P
12:37*andythenorth will go and test it
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26340 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2014-02-15 18:45:33 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>luxembourgish - 4 changes by Phreeze
13:45<@DorpsGek>polish - 1 changes by wojteks86
13:45<@DorpsGek>serbian - 11 changes by Suleiman
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13:52<@planetmaker>hm... is admin port also available in single player?
13:54<@Alberth>seems unlikely to me
13:55<@planetmaker>I guess I want to hack it then to run fast-forward in multiplayer :)
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16:10<Tirili>How can I fly Food to other airports? I need an airport, that HAS food waiting yet, but how do I get one?
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>food will pile up if you build the airport near a food processing plant, and send a vehicle to pick it up
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>(and deliver raw materials to that plant)
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18:08<LordAro>i... i just segfaulted gdb
18:08<@planetmaker>gdb gdb blah ? :)
18:09<LordAro>yeah, done that :)
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18:36<Tuiq>Hm. Does it make a difference where I put the locomotives in a train?
18:42<LordAro>no, iirc
18:47<@planetmaker>depends on newgrfs :)
18:47<@planetmaker>might just be that it depends on date
18:47<@planetmaker>on full moon or february 29th you get 15% extra power. But 5% less max speed. maybe :)
18:47<@planetmaker>except when it's the 13th
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19:04<Eddi|zuHause>when february the 29th falls on a friday the 13th?
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---Logclosed Sun Feb 16 00:00:54 2014