Back to Home / #openttd / 2014 / 02 / Prev Day | Next Day
#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-02-23

---Logopened Sun Feb 23 00:00:09 2014
00:11-!-Pulec [pulec@unaffilated.amunak.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:25-!-Hazzard is now known as Guest947
00:25-!-Hazzard [~43aefd2c@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
00:31-!-Guest947 [~43aefd2c@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:42-!-roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:56-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67B56.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit []
00:56-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC678E3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
00:57-!-Keyboard_Warrior [~theholydu@ip-2-138-106-77.eidsiva.net] has joined #openttd
01:00-!-theholyduck [~theholydu@ip-220-136-106-77.eidsiva.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
01:00-!-LeandroL [~leandro@190.189.0.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:01-!-ChickeNES [~ChickeNES@dhcp148.swwn1.iit.edu] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
01:02-!-LeandroL [~leandro@190.189.0.224] has joined #openttd
01:12-!-Pikka [~Octomom@d58-111-72-67.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
01:13-!-Hazzard [~43aefd2c@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
01:15-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6B51C.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
01:16-!-Pulec [pulec@unaffilated.amunak.net] has joined #openttd
01:29-!-retro|cz [~retro@ip-89-176-82-80.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd
01:30-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1A67C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
01:46-!-Lizz [~Lizz@142.68.159.186] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
01:58-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1A67C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
02:13-!-roadt [~roadt@223.240.97.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:18-!-sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.164.39] has joined #openttd
02:28-!-wakou2 [~stephen@host86-150-31-84.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
02:34-!-Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.80.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:40-!-Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:47-!-LeandroL [~leandro@190.189.0.224] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
03:23-!-ChickeNES [~ChickeNES@dhcp148.swwn1.iit.edu] has joined #openttd
03:25-!-tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-85-174.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd
03:29-!-tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
03:34-!-Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
03:42-!-Devroush [~dennis@91.181.144.67] has joined #openttd
03:55-!-roadt [~roadt@223.240.97.220] has joined #openttd
04:31-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd
04:34-!-Morgan_Freeman [~user@99-194-195-10.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
04:37-!-Alberth [~hat@2001:980:272e:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd
04:37-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
04:41-!-chester_ [~chester@37-145-42-36.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
04:54-!-Japa [~Japa@117.201.97.52] has joined #openttd
04:54-!-Japa [~Japa@117.201.97.52] has quit []
04:54-!-Virtual [~Virtual@46.7.241.30] has joined #openttd
05:04-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
05:04<Wolf01>o/
05:06-!-Fuco_ [foobar@server.dasnet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:11-!-Fuco [foobar@server.dasnet.cz] has joined #openttd
05:11<@Alberth>moin
05:11-!-LuHa [~LuHa@119.204.76.132] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
05:42-!-MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd
05:45-!-Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd
05:52-!-jpierre03 [~jpierre03@voyage.prunetwork.fr] has quit [Quit: -]
05:58-!-jpierre03 [~jpierre03@voyage.prunetwork.fr] has joined #openttd
06:10-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6B51C.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
06:21-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00d1df.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
06:27-!-oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
06:30*LordAro waves at people
06:30*MNIM counter-waves
06:33*Virtual waves at laptop, then realises nobody can see him
06:33*LordAro particles
06:39*murr4y hugs screen
06:57-!-KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
06:58-!-ChickeNES [~ChickeNES@dhcp148.swwn1.iit.edu] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
07:15-!-oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
07:25-!-kruger [~kruger@h215n4-vj-d3.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #openttd
07:25-!-kruger is now known as NGC3982`
07:25<NGC3982`>Morning.
07:26<__ln__>@seen NGC3982
07:26<@DorpsGek>__ln__: NGC3982 was last seen in #openttd 5 weeks, 3 days, 21 hours, 49 minutes, and 1 second ago: <NGC3982> Fantastic.
07:26<NGC3982`>Yes, i know.
07:26<NGC3982`>That client will be terminated.
07:33-!-NGC3982 [appe@noskapin.krot.se] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
07:33-!-NGC3982` is now known as NGC3982
07:33<NGC3982>Well look at that; I have been upgraded.
07:35<frosch123>integrating the derivative does not necessarily result in the original function
07:45<valhallasw>Who cares about constants.
07:47<LordAro>^^
07:51-!-yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd
07:59<Eddi|zuHause>might as well be NGC5523 then
08:05-!-wakou2 [~stephen@host86-150-31-84.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
08:06-!-wakou2 [~stephen@host86-150-31-84.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
09:02-!-Japa [~Japa@117.201.106.175] has joined #openttd
09:10-!-Japa [~Japa@117.201.106.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:16<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r26365 trunk/src/video/win32_v.cpp (2014-02-23 14:15:55 UTC)
09:16<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5867]: Don't draw the cursor when its sprite isn't ready and set _screen.dst_ptr immediately when the buffer changes (frosch123)
09:16<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r26366 trunk/src/video/win32_v.cpp (2014-02-23 14:16:36 UTC)
09:16<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Protect the windows video driver from concurrent access (frosch123)
09:17<Eddi|zuHause>fonsinchen doing non-cargodist commits?
09:18<LordAro>shocking
09:18<LordAro>he must have finished cargodist :p
09:21<MNIM>'finished'
09:21-!-tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
09:21-!-mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ
09:22<fonsinchen>I'm not finished with cargodist quite yet. I have another idea on how to annoy the YACD fans some more ;)
09:22<fonsinchen>However, first I'd like to get 1.4 out
09:22-!-roadt_ [~roadt@60.168.92.92] has joined #openttd
09:27-!-tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-85-174.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:29-!-roadt [~roadt@223.240.97.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:41-!-Hirundo [~Hirundo@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:42-!-Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@yoda.zernebok.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:42-!-akuryou [alexanla@colargol.tihlde.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:43-!-Hirundo [~Hirundo@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
09:43-!-Rubidium [~Rubidium@000128fa.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:43-!-Rubidium [~Rubidium@noiv.net] has joined #openttd
09:47-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1A67C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
09:51-!-roadt_ [~roadt@60.168.92.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:57-!-Japa [~Japa@117.201.106.175] has joined #openttd
09:58-!-jpierre03 [~jpierre03@voyage.prunetwork.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
09:58-!-jpierre03 [~jpierre03@voyage.prunetwork.fr] has joined #openttd
10:02-!-zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:04-!-Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@yoda.zernebok.com] has joined #openttd
10:06-!-jpierre03 [~jpierre03@voyage.prunetwork.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:06-!-jpierre03 [~jpierre03@voyage.prunetwork.fr] has joined #openttd
10:16-!-retro|cz [~retro@ip-89-176-82-80.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:17-!-Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.106.175] has joined #openttd
10:24-!-Japa [~Japa@117.201.106.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:25-!-Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd
10:28-!-Lizz [~Lizz@142.68.78.181] has joined #openttd
10:29-!-Mucht [~Martin@000128e2.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
10:40-!-zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd
11:08<@DorpsGek>Commit by michi_cc :: r26367 trunk/src/video/win32_v.cpp (2014-02-23 16:08:50 UTC)
11:08<@DorpsGek>-Fix: [Win32] Use a separate event to indicate that the drawing thread has finished initialising, preventing potential deadlocks.
11:12-!-ABCRic [~ABCRic@a79-168-244-115.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #openttd
11:15-!-Pereba [~UserNick@179.186.25.14.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd
11:26-!-rubenwardy [~rubenward@host86-140-70-12.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
11:34-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6B51C.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
11:35-!-Tirili [~chatzilla@kel30.kel.studentenwerk-goettingen.de] has joined #openttd
11:44-!-Hazzard [~43aefd2c@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
11:48-!-Japa__ [~Japa@117.201.106.175] has joined #openttd
11:48<@planetmaker>good evening
11:51<@Alberth>evenink
11:53-!-rubenwardy [~rubenward@host86-140-70-12.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:55-!-Japa_ [~Japa@117.201.106.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:57<LordAro>o/
11:57<frosch123>planetmaker: the desync on the public server is caused by closing companies (bankrupt or autoclean)
11:58<frosch123>so, just play properly :p
11:58<@planetmaker>frosch123, it's the 'stable' server. Noobs may play there :P
12:05-!-oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
12:07-!-Lizz [~Lizz@142.68.78.181] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:08-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:09-!-glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
12:09-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
12:13-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd
12:18-!-Tirili [~chatzilla@kel30.kel.studentenwerk-goettingen.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [SeaMonkey 2.24/20140207013742]]
12:23-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd
12:23<andythenorth>o/
12:28<andythenorth>meh
12:28<andythenorth>CC-BY-NC-SA is not GPL compatible
12:28<andythenorth>that's a PITA
12:28<@planetmaker>why do you need NC?
12:28<@planetmaker>or which graphics do you look at? :)
12:30<andythenorth>I want egrvts 2
12:30<andythenorth>I'll ask Zeph
12:30<@planetmaker>ah, he's available and should agree, I guess
12:31<@planetmaker>I wonder why egrvts2 is not GPL anyway...
12:31-!-planetmaker [~planetmak@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [Verlassend]
12:31-!-planetmaker [~planetmak@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
12:31-!-mode/#openttd [+o planetmaker] by ChanServ
12:31-!-planetmaker is "Ingo von Borstel" on @#openttd @+#openttdcoop @+#openttdcoop.stable #debian #openttdcoop.devzone @+#openttdcoop.nightly @+#openttdcoop.dev #openttdcoop.bots @+#coopetition #oftc +#openttd.dev +#openDune
12:32<andythenorth>bbl
12:32-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
12:46<Virtual>I just installed OpenTTD on Windows 8 with zBase and my screen does't scroll when I move my mouse around. Any idea why ?
12:46-!-bdavenport [~davenport@chronos.rpi.mindlesstux.com] has joined #openttd
12:46<Virtual>I can zoom in and out with my mouse, but can't scroll the map
12:48<Virtual>Ah found the setting in Interface
12:48<Virtual>I wonder why it isn't enabled by default
12:49<+glx>because it's annoying
12:49<Virtual>How do you move around normally ?
12:49<+glx>left click and move
12:49<+glx>hmm right click
12:50<@planetmaker>different people like different UI behaviours I guess :)
12:50<+glx>I never liked auto scrolling
12:53<Wolf01>one thing I find really annoying is the scrolling direction with rmb, in disabled mode it's inverted and confuses me, in enabled mode the mouse pointer is still and confuses me :(
12:54<Wolf01>that's why I always use lmb to scroll
12:55<Wolf01>but often I click on a station and open the window instead of scrolling, which doesn't happen with rmb
13:04-!-jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:09-!-jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has joined #openttd
13:15-!-Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.43.133.52] has joined #openttd
13:18-!-ChickeNES [~ChickeNES@dhcp148.swwn1.iit.edu] has joined #openttd
13:20-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd
13:24<andythenorth>herp
13:24<@Alberth>o/
13:24<andythenorth>Iron Horse seems pretty well balanced, played a few test games with it
13:24<andythenorth>FIRS seems pretty well balanced, I am loving playing the basic temperate economy
13:24<andythenorth>but Squid is still a bit weird :(
13:25<andythenorth>fricking rivers + canals :(
13:28-!-Devroush [~dennis@91.181.144.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:41-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
13:43-!-ChickeNES [~ChickeNES@dhcp148.swwn1.iit.edu] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
13:43-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26368 trunk/src/lang/indonesian.txt (2014-02-23 18:45:12 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>indonesian - 2 changes by abdu354
13:49<Elukka>Eddi|zuHause: i've been out of the loop when it comes to all things openttd for a long time
13:49<Elukka>is CETS still a thing?
13:49<Eddi|zuHause>somewhat
13:50<Eddi|zuHause>i've made some crude graphics (basically replacing green boxes with coloured boxes), and i'll get back to it in a month or so
13:51-!-gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3AC0.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
13:52<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i think the definition of "river" is a bit impractical. it should be something like "open see: anything further than 1 tile from a shore" and "river: anything not open sea"
13:53<@Alberth>nice river just along the coast :)
13:54<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: well yes, means a river boat can move along the shore without penalty
13:55<Eddi|zuHause>there might be special rules for tiles next to a dock
13:55<@Alberth>nice idea
13:55-!-Lizz [~Lizz@blk-89-196-21.eastlink.ca] has joined #openttd
13:56<Eddi|zuHause>assuming that a dock is built to handle both river ships and sea ships
13:56<Eddi|zuHause>there are no high winds/waves within a harbour, and they are deep enough
13:57<Eddi|zuHause>and you can build canals for sea ships when you make them 3 tiles wide
13:58<@Alberth>locks are special too for river boats
13:58<@Alberth>and have 3 tile wide locks for sea boats? :)
13:58<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I was concluding just the same thing
13:58<@Alberth>should be also longer then
13:59<andythenorth>logically, what is needed is inshore and deep water
13:59<andythenorth>but I'm not sure that is actually desirable
13:59<andythenorth>just the most logical solution
13:59<andythenorth>let me see if I can explain my problem adequately...
13:59<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: well, locks are a different kind of problem, they should be (New)Objects. with a state machine
13:59<@Alberth>RV doesn't even have 2 speeds
14:00<andythenorth>- big ships look stupid on rivers and canals, but it's easy to use speed factor to solve this
14:00<andythenorth>- small ships have same speed on rivers and canals and sea
14:00<andythenorth>- big river boats are desirable as eye candy, but also for larger capacity on inland routes
14:01<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: obviously, people will also want bridges with state
14:01<andythenorth>- but the big river boats are slow on sea, and there is so much 'sea', .e.g inland closed 'lakes' etc
14:01<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: well once we have actual state machines, that should be possible :)
14:01<andythenorth>- and all FIRS port industries build on sea
14:01<andythenorth>- hence, river boats are unused in my test games
14:01<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: you also need the "bridge is closed" concept
14:02<@Alberth>and possibly, "bridge is free" :p
14:02<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: all handled by the state machine
14:03<andythenorth>- allowing the big river boats to have same speed on sea makes the equivalent size sea ships pointless
14:03*Alberth bets the state machine will need to interfere in the normal bridge access code
14:04<andythenorth>- could ships route along shorelines?
14:04<andythenorth>I think they'd be inefficient and get stuck
14:04<@Alberth>if you teach the pathfinder not to go out on sea, I see no problem
14:05<@Alberth>maybe you want 2 tiles instead of 1
14:05<@Alberth>you'd be following every small curve in the land otherwise
14:06<Eddi|zuHause>it should be a simple pathfinder penalty
14:07<Eddi|zuHause>and water tiles should have enough bits available to store wether they are "near the coast"
14:08<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: maybe we can completely remove bridges and reimplement them as objects
14:08<frosch123>not objects
14:08<frosch123>cargos!
14:09<frosch123>you should add state machines to cargos
14:09<andythenorth>pathfinder would need to read a flag on the vehicle?
14:09<@Alberth>you load eggs, and they arrive as chicken!
14:09<Eddi|zuHause>with such objects you can easily implement highways, onramps, cloverleaf junctions and stuff
14:10<andythenorth>also what if there is no non-sea route? will pathfinder then just accept the penalty?
14:10<frosch123>Alberth: interesting profit curve
14:10<frosch123>first the worth drops, then it increases again
14:10<@Alberth>andythenorth: vehicle calls pathfinder with some flags to denote the kind of paths it wants
14:10<frosch123>but you also need to load some grain
14:10<andythenorth>could just see if the sea speed < canal speed
14:11<andythenorth>automate it
14:11<andythenorth>no newgrf changes
14:11<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: works just the same with rails when a vehicle is electrified, it disregards some rail tiles as valid paths
14:11<@Alberth>if only speed was a simple value in a struct :p
14:12<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: this flag could be calculated on grf load and stored in the engine struct
14:12<Eddi|zuHause>unless it's affected by callbacks :p
14:13<@Alberth>yeah, I was about to ask if you ever played with FISH :)
14:14<Eddi|zuHause>probably not with a fish that has river speeds :)
14:15<andythenorth>FISH has callbacks :P
14:16<andythenorth>I honestly think if (canal_speed < sea_speed) { foo } is best
14:16<andythenorth>hmm
14:17<andythenorth>can I implement my own tile check?
14:17<andythenorth>with a circular search for nearest coast?
14:20<andythenorth>because that will be really efficient :P
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: put it into the TileLoop_Water, and store it in the map
14:27<Elukka>i kinda want to offer to draw sprites again but i'm not sure i can commit to making a significant amount of them
14:28<Elukka>and then there's the problem of consistent style
14:32<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26369 trunk/src/openttd.cpp (2014-02-23 19:32:00 UTC)
14:32<@DorpsGek>-Fix-ish: Do not run scripts during command replay.
14:32<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26370 /trunk (3 files in 2 dirs) (2014-02-23 19:32:32 UTC)
14:32<@DorpsGek>-Doc: Desync debugging and command replaying.
14:33<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: well, try to stick close to the style we already have? and draw sprites one vehicle at a time :)
14:33<@planetmaker>^ one sprite at a time will make a NewGRF set
14:33<@planetmaker>one step of a time will make a journey
14:34<@planetmaker>can I haz 4x sprites, too? :D
14:34<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: and query it from cb36?
14:34<andythenorth>hmm, dunno how often cb36 triggers for ships :)
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: why do you need cb36 for that?
14:35<andythenorth>adjust speed
14:35<andythenorth>I am proposing handling this all in newgrf and ignoring the current canal / sea properties
14:35<andythenorth>just as a thought experiment..
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>it probably won't be triggered on entering every tile
14:37<@planetmaker>I doubt that vehicles can check surrounding tiles
14:37<@planetmaker>and tbh, a surrounding tile check on vehicles might not be a good idea, considering performance
14:37<andythenorth>hmm
14:37<frosch123>just make the ships refittable between fast and capacious
14:38<frosch123>then you can refit them to fast when dirving back empty
14:38<andythenorth>is the simplest thing to change the definition of river and sea tiles, make that the result of a coast-distance search, and then cache that?
14:38<andythenorth>frosch123: they already go faster empty :P
14:39<@planetmaker>andythenorth, I rather think that the 'simplest' thing is to add a "deep water" flag to sea water. To water tiles which are more distant than N tiles from coast
14:39<andythenorth>approximately same I think?
14:39-!-Midnightmyth_ [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd
14:39<@planetmaker>maybe. I don't say to change the definition of sea / river
14:39-!-ChickeNES [~ChickeNES@dhcp148.swwn1.iit.edu] has joined #openttd
14:39<andythenorth>oic
14:39<Eddi|zuHause>that is pretty much what i said earlier
14:39<@planetmaker>Just adding an additional destinction for sea tiles
14:40<andythenorth>then we'd have speed, canal speed, deep sea speed
14:40<@planetmaker>kinda
14:40<frosch123>can you ctrl+build canals on rivers to create deep rivers?
14:40<andythenorth>and there would be balance
14:40<andythenorth>I rarely build canals anyway. Much easier to just lower land usually
14:40<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: in my proposal, a "deep canal/river" would be one 3 tiles wide
14:40<andythenorth>canals are ugly, and locks are ugly and too big
14:40<@planetmaker>and it could also allow possibly to colour-vary them :)
14:40<Eddi|zuHause>canals are too expensive
14:41<andythenorth>not with FISH
14:41<andythenorth>I 'fixed' them
14:41<@planetmaker>deep sea water is darker than shallow water
14:41<andythenorth>but the square corners are horrible
14:41<@planetmaker>andythenorth, that's a newgrf matter. You can make it behave like rivers
14:41<@planetmaker>that can be fixed already for years
14:42<andythenorth>just draw curve corners?
14:42<@planetmaker>canals is the only reason that there's no release for pota-ghat.
14:42<@planetmaker>yes, just draw them curved. Or how you like them
14:43<@planetmaker>you can read the dike map and display sprites depending on it
14:43<andythenorth>maybe that's a project one day
14:44<andythenorth>I draw, you code :P
14:44<andythenorth>so shall we add 'deep sea'?
14:44<andythenorth>or is it another example of MOAR
14:44<andythenorth>and MOAR is not Better
14:44<andythenorth>?
14:45-!-Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:45<@planetmaker>dunno. Personally I do believe a 'deep sea' property to sea water can make sense
14:45<Elukka>yeah eddi, it's just that even though i try to keep to the style there's still a significant difference between me and... man, who was the more productive artist? that guy, anyway
14:46<Elukka>though i'm not sure it's terribly noticeable if you're not looking out for it
14:46-!-Pikka [~Octomom@d58-111-72-67.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd
14:46<@planetmaker>the difference between 'no artists' and 'one artist' is quite noticable, for sure
14:46<andythenorth>lo Pikka
14:46<andythenorth>Pikka: I have news
14:46<Pikka>news!
14:46<andythenorth>indeed
14:46<andythenorth>I have been playing a game
14:46<@Alberth>new news even :)
14:46<Pikka>hello!
14:46<Elukka>i also feel like i should come up with a more efficient workflow for drawing all the intermediate angles
14:46<Pikka>what game have you been playing?
14:47<@planetmaker>!olleh
14:47<andythenorth>OpenTTD, heard of it?
14:47<Elukka>oh i've been meaning to play that some time
14:47<Pikka>how unusual
14:47<andythenorth>Pikka: AV8 is nearly perfect, but there's too much of it
14:47<andythenorth>can you take some of it away?
14:47<Pikka>much too much
14:47<andythenorth>can you just keep the bits I like?
14:48<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: name is oberhümer
14:48<frosch123>why is andy again in this "remove all choices to simplify choices" mood?
14:48<andythenorth>frosch123: it's a near-permanent mood
14:48<andythenorth>less is better, mostly
14:48-!-Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
14:49<+michi_cc>Elukka: Zephyris PixelTool might be something to look at, even if it would need extended for the extra angles.
14:49<@planetmaker>av8 doesn't exactly need an overhaul. Except a parameter to disable range ;)
14:49<andythenorth>CETS really *needs* to be rendered
14:49*andythenorth is a reluctant fan of rendered stuff
14:50<Pikka>range is silly
14:50<Pikka>http://i.imgur.com/gYKLkeV.png <- like that, andythenorth?
14:51<andythenorth>Pikka: bin the biplane imo :P
14:51<andythenorth>oh, it has good capacity
14:51<andythenorth>keep it
14:51<andythenorth>yeah that looks about right
14:52<Pikka>o/
14:52<andythenorth>most of my games need: DC3, 737, 747, Elvis and sometimes Hercules
14:52<andythenorth>and A380
14:52<andythenorth>not much else
14:54<andythenorth>planetmaker: would deep sea need transition tiles?
14:55<andythenorth>also, we are limited on water cycle, I wonder about a palette shift?
14:55<andythenorth>make it automatic, avoid drawing anything new
14:55<Pikka>32bpp.. no water cycle or animated tiles at all. :)
14:56<Pikka>transition tiles for the tile nearest the coast would be awesome though, especially if they were directional.
14:56<@planetmaker>andythenorth, I'd draw something new. And just commit the same sprite as now to avoid actually drawing something. But allowing to draw something
14:56<@planetmaker>Pikka, not true
14:56<Pikka>no?
14:56<@planetmaker>zBase just doesn't use a mask
14:56<@planetmaker>try pota-ghat ;)
14:57<Pikka>ah...
14:57<Pikka>it also helps if you turn "full animation" on. :)
14:58<Pikka>but it uses the ttd palette colours?
14:58<Pikka>it's not an actual animation?
14:59<@planetmaker>it works like the company colours in 32bpp
14:59<Eddi|zuHause>yes, "full animation" means palette animation
14:59<@planetmaker>but the water palette indices are of course animated. It uses DOS palette
14:59<@planetmaker>for the mask sprite
15:00<Pikka>right...
15:00<Pikka>so you still can't have animated water unless you want that colour water. ;)
15:00<@planetmaker>hu?
15:00<@planetmaker>you can basically have both
15:01<Pikka>both what? I'm confused :D
15:02<Pikka>potaghat water is nice, btw :D
15:02<Eddi|zuHause>you can put non-animated pixels between the animated ones?
15:02<Elukka><andythenorth> CETS really *needs* to be rendered
15:02<Elukka>having drawn some sprites for it i'm sort of inclined to agree :D
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>well, pixeltool might be a start
15:03<Elukka>coding a tool for it is a bit beyond my ability and inclination though
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>or you try to refine the "crude" templates i have in the tracking table to use the pixa templates i have, but it won't be exact
15:04<Elukka>pixeltool looks sorta magical
15:04<Eddi|zuHause>Elukka: if you store the voxels somewhere, we might be able to extend it later to include the additional views into the output
15:04<Elukka>if only it would do the intermediate vie- yeah
15:05<andythenorth>voxel art is *nice*
15:05*andythenorth likes games with voxels in
15:05<Eddi|zuHause>but i can't look into that right now
15:06<@planetmaker>Pikka, the trick to make the water nice(r) is to simply use the existing 8bpp water sprite as mask for the 32bpp water sprite
15:06<Pikka>but you will end up with default blue-coloured water if you do that, right? is what I'm saying. :)
15:07<Pikka>I have other ideas for water... but I haven't tried any of them yet, so I don't know how they'll look. :)
15:07<Elukka>well, tell me if you ever do :D
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>there must be a newgrf-y way to replace the water colours
15:07*andythenorth looks for python voxel libraries
15:07<Elukka>i'm still a clueless programmer and my current code-energy is pointed towards a space combat boardgame
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>TTO mars did it
15:08<Pikka>mars just uses the fire cycle colours instead of the water cycle colours
15:10<andythenorth>ho, rendering voxels out using PIL, how rare http://code.activestate.com/recipes/578652-voxel-based-ray-tracing/
15:10<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: a voxel generator seems right up your street...
15:10<andythenorth>I think we need to abandon this primitive 'drawing' shenanigan
15:10<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: well pixa shapes are kinda that
15:10<andythenorth>kinda, but not in a 3D space
15:10<Pikka>andy: make sure you go 32bpp + ez while you're at it
15:11<andythenorth>maybe I went in the wrong direction
15:11<Eddi|zuHause>i could probably turn my pixa shapes to output to pixeltools
15:11<andythenorth>actually, I quite literally used the DOOM engine approach instead of Quake
15:11<andythenorth>DOOM is all based on floorplans, with edges extruded and surfaced
15:12<andythenorth>not being very clever, I invent dumb solutions :P
15:13-!-Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.80.103] has joined #openttd
15:18<@planetmaker>Pikka, you're right, it won't change colours indeed
15:23<andythenorth>so where does river / sea speed code live?
15:23*andythenorth wonders...
15:23<peter1139>go 128bpp
15:23<peter1139>and eeeez
15:24<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: grep for the property number and follow the code?
15:24<Pikka>eeeez
15:24<Pikka>aka bad brett's gold rush...
15:26<andythenorth>hrm
15:26<andythenorth>new simplest thing, simply invert sea / canal speed props
15:27<andythenorth>and add a coast-search to define what is a sea tile
15:27<andythenorth>so instead of special-casing canal/river, special case deep sea
15:27<andythenorth>and treat all other water as 'normal'
15:28-!-oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
15:29<andythenorth>breaks newgrf spec, but eh, who cares? :)
15:29<Pikka>no-one makes ships but you anyway, right? ;)
15:31-!-LeandroL [~leandro@190.189.0.224] has joined #openttd
15:32<andythenorth>MIchael made some
15:32<andythenorth>and there's a russian river barge set
15:32<andythenorth>and Andrew350's set
15:32<andythenorth>but that's it
15:32<@planetmaker>mouse's old ships
15:33<andythenorth>probably some others I don't know about
15:33<andythenorth>but not many :P
15:34<andythenorth>having 'Canal speed xyz, sea speed zxy, deep sea speed yxz' in the buy menu seems like overkill
15:34<andythenorth>could also prevent bridges over deep water :P
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>there is nothing in the newgrf specs that says "canal and river" must be "canal and river tile"
15:39<andythenorth>there isn't? o_O
15:39<andythenorth>how handy
15:39<andythenorth>Ocean speed fraction
15:39<andythenorth>Canal speed fraction
15:40<andythenorth>hmm
15:40<andythenorth>so redefine Ocean as n tiles from shore
15:40<andythenorth>and Canal speed happens to be same as some other water tile types
15:40<MNIM>would make bridges over a certain length of sea impossible.
15:41<andythenorth>orly?
15:41<andythenorth>I hadn't thought of that :P
15:41<andythenorth>I love those 64 tile long bridges :)
15:41<andythenorth>they're also really efficient to signal
15:41<andythenorth>can I terraform deep sea?
15:41<V453000>ok can someone tell me who could be so retarded to make a RV set, and make ALL vehicles expire sooner or later? realism ftw
15:41<V453000>fuck yes
15:41<Eddi|zuHause>MNIM: there is nothing in there that affects bridges at all
15:42<V453000>there, complaining completed
15:42<frosch123>V453000: to simulate oil running out?
15:42<V453000>...
15:42<andythenorth>bridges are a completely unrelated, 'andythenorth had an idea' issue
15:42<andythenorth>V453000: that was not enough complaining
15:42<frosch123>MNIM: does not sound realistic
15:42<andythenorth>EMoreComplainingNeeded
15:42<frosch123>long bridges over sea seem to become more realistically than tunnels under it
15:42<V453000>ok uk busses work somewhat
15:43<andythenorth>I build islands for signals :P
15:43<MNIM>well, since under sea tunnels won't be happening for a long time...
15:43<MNIM>(well, unless hacked together)
15:43<Eddi|zuHause>you can easily limit bridge length
15:43<Pikka>under-sea bridges!
15:43<andythenorth>ship_cmd.cpp? GetEffectiveWaterClass ?
15:43<andythenorth>Pikka: ftw
15:44<MNIM>Pikka: aerial tunnels!
15:44<Pikka>underwater trains
15:44<Pikka>in vacuum tunnels
15:44<MNIM>no! flying trains
15:44<Supercheese>Unterseebahn
15:44<Pikka>articulated aircraft!
15:44<andythenorth>hmm some magic for bridges?
15:45<Eddi|zuHause>Supercheesebahn? why is that not in NUTS yet? :p
15:45<Supercheese>forget road trains or barge trains, airship trains
15:45<andythenorth>is that for going under bridges, or is that handling aquaducts?
15:45<andythenorth>l47 or so
15:46<MNIM>amphibious trains.
15:46<Supercheese>hovertrains
15:46-!-Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
15:46-!-Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:1e4b:d6ff:feca:6b69] has joined #openttd
15:47<frosch123>ecranotrains
15:47<MNIM>ecranotrains! sounds like an idea
15:48<Supercheese>actually there are 9-direction isometric sprites for a hovertrain: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=16335
15:48<Supercheese>porting Civ3 -> TTD needs loads of palette wrangling though
15:49<@Alberth>convert to 32bpp; done!
15:49<Supercheese>wish it was that simple
15:49<Supercheese>Civ3 has weird transparency in the palette
15:50<Supercheese>where the engine interprets certain indices as "10% transparent white, 10% transparent black, 20% transparent white..." etc
15:50<@Alberth>that sounds like a challenge :)
15:51<Supercheese>it is indeed
15:53<Supercheese>definitely the sort of job to write a script for... but I have not yet attempted
15:55<Supercheese>there may be one out there, even; I haven't searched
15:59-!-Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd
15:59-!-Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:02-!-MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:03-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
16:03<LordAro>http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2014-02-23/
16:04-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd
16:05<andythenorth>let's see
16:05<andythenorth>where can I crib a circular search from?
16:05<andythenorth>maybe industry_cmd has one somewhere
16:06<andythenorth>I have succeeded in making all times WATER_CLASS_CANAL :P
16:06<andythenorth>elite skills :P
16:07<andythenorth>tiles *
16:07<@Alberth>just define a map at level 0 :p
16:07<andythenorth>what does CircularTileSearch() do? o_O
16:08<@Alberth>it circles around a tile looking for it?
16:08<@Alberth>but it sounds like that's the thing you want :)
16:08<andythenorth>I'm not sure how its interface works
16:09<andythenorth>but then nobody else go born knowing that either :(
16:14<@Alberth>andythenorth: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3138/
16:21<andythenorth>o_O
16:22<andythenorth>so there's search callback function
16:22<andythenorth>so for this case, that needs to check for coast
16:22<andythenorth>with some distance limit
16:22<@Alberth>2 is the distance
16:23<@Alberth>of the search, that is, ie you want any coast in 2 tiles
16:24<andythenorth>WATER_TILE_COAST is a thing?
16:24-!-Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd
16:25-!-Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:25<Pikka>it's a thing
16:25<Pikka>it's the slope, it's not the water tile
16:26<Pikka>afaia
16:27<@Alberth>andythenorth: water_map.h IsTileType(t, MP_WATER) && IsCoast(t)
16:28-!-Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:31<Pikka>also that
16:35<andythenorth>let's see
16:35<andythenorth>dunno if I have enough time
16:35*andythenorth tries
16:40<@Alberth>gn and good luck
16:41<andythenorth>:)
16:41-!-Alberth [~hat@2001:980:272e:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd []
16:45-!-KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
16:45-!-gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3AC0.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/nkczDT]
16:47<andythenorth>hmm
16:47<andythenorth>achieved an assert :P
16:47<andythenorth>well done me
16:47-!-exitnode [~quassel@floyd.exitnode.net] has left #openttd []
16:52<andythenorth>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3139/
16:53<andythenorth>assertion error on if (IsCoast(tile))
16:53<andythenorth>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3140/
16:55<andythenorth>also...bye
16:55-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
17:03<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26371 /trunk/src (6 files in 2 dirs) (2014-02-23 22:03:08 UTC)
17:03<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5831]: Calling DoCommandP during the gameloop cleared pending persistent storage changes.
17:06-!-chester_ [~chester@37-145-42-36.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
17:09-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6D969.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
17:14<Eddi|zuHause>someone should tell andy that it should be "if (!IsTileType(t, MP_WATER) || IsCoast(tile))"
17:15-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6B51C.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>err, "tile", not "t"
17:15-!-aproxy [bouncer@applecraftserver.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:18-!-ChickeNES [~ChickeNES@dhcp148.swwn1.iit.edu] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
17:18-!-aproxy [bouncer@applecraftserver.com] has joined #openttd
17:21-!-ChickeNES [~ChickeNES@dhcp148.swwn1.iit.edu] has joined #openttd
17:22-!-ChickeNES [~ChickeNES@dhcp148.swwn1.iit.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:37-!-sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.164.39] has quit []
17:40-!-Haube [~michi@77-21-133-191-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:43<frosch123>night
17:43-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00d1df.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
17:47-!-DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.164] has joined #openttd
17:54-!-valhalla1w [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd
17:56-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:58<Wolf01>'night
17:58-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
18:18-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1A67C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:40-!-jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:42-!-jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has joined #openttd
18:45-!-Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit []
18:49-!-valhalla1w [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:57-!-roadt_ [~roadt@60.168.92.92] has joined #openttd
19:02-!-bdavenport [~davenport@chronos.rpi.mindlesstux.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:07-!-web386 [~oftc-webi@pool-173-67-179-17.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd
19:09-!-LeandroL [~leandro@190.189.0.224] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:10-!-LeandroL [~leandro@190.189.0.224] has joined #openttd
19:10-!-Midnightmyth_ [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:17-!-Japa__ [~Japa@117.201.106.175] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:28-!-ABCRic [~ABCRic@a79-168-244-115.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:40-!-Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:1e4b:d6ff:feca:6b69] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:50-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6D969.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
19:51-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6D969.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
19:52-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6D969.versanet.de] has quit []
19:54-!-Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:1e4b:d6ff:feca:6b69] has joined #openttd
20:06-!-Japa [~Japa@117.201.106.175] has joined #openttd
20:10-!-Virtual [~Virtual@46.7.241.30] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
20:22-!-Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:15-!-Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:1e4b:d6ff:feca:6b69] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:27-!-MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:35-!-Morgan_Freeman [~user@99-194-195-10.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #openttd
21:42-!-glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye]
21:57-!-yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:44-!-Hazzard is now known as Guest1044
23:44-!-Hazzard [~43aefd2c@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
23:50-!-Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd
23:50-!-Guest1044 [~43aefd2c@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:50-!-Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:58-!-Pereba [~UserNick@179.186.25.14.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: AdiIRC - Just try it! (www.adiirc.com)]
---Logclosed Mon Feb 24 00:00:11 2014