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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-02-24

---Logopened Mon Feb 24 00:00:11 2014
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03:19<dihedral>good morning
03:19<V453000>HY
03:19<V453000>cows go moo when they poo
03:19<V453000>monday wisdom level 9000
03:19<V453000><-
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03:53<@planetmaker>moin
03:54<V453000>moo
03:55<V453000>nice, activity in 32bpp forums = 0 after my post
03:55<V453000>:d
03:57<Pikka>32bpp forum is superflous, really
03:57<Pikka>since 32bpp is justanothernewgrf
03:58<Eddi|zuHause>it keeps the weirdos out of the real newgrf forum :p
03:58<V453000>LOL
03:59<V453000>:D:D:D not like the real newgrf forum is full of intelligence
04:00<@planetmaker>I fully agree. There's no point in a 32bpp sub forum at all
04:01<__ln__>yeah, better go 64bpp at this time and age
04:02<Pikka>even the seperate releases, development and technical discussion forums are a bit unnecessary, for the number of posts each gets.
04:05<V453000>and motivating people to release newgrfs on a forum instead of bananas by having "release forum" is a bad idea too :P
04:05<V453000>and the development forums are just flood of stupid ideas
04:05<V453000>remove all categories? D:
04:07<@planetmaker>removing all categories would not be the worst move
04:07<@planetmaker>would also avoid more of the "you posted in the wrong forum" discussions
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04:09<V453000>honestly if each newGRF has two threads (release and development, it is just plain confusing too
04:09<@planetmaker>yes, quite
04:09<V453000>e.g. nuts threads are short but I quickly had no idea what is in which thread (who wrote what where)
04:10<@planetmaker>nor do I for those NewGRF threads concerning my newgrfs
04:10<V453000>not that I want to keep any of those really, but for others
04:10<V453000>y
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04:11<Eddi|zuHause>who needs a forum anyway! remove it completely! make a facebook group!
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04:12<@planetmaker>would require me to log into facebook more than once a month. No thank you :P
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05:15<Rubidium>s/log into/create a/;s/more than once a month/account/
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05:26<peter1139>You could say our 32bpp is actually 48bpp anyway...
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06:01<Eddi|zuHause>why would a name ever describe the content... that would be way too german :p
06:09<peter1139>I think that's only in-memory, mind you. It's 40bpp in-file.
06:09<peter1139>IIRC...
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09:41<Eddi|zuHause>this "goto fail" bug is obviously because they didn't follow the coding style :p
09:42<Xaroth|Work>all hail curly brackets
09:49<Rubidium>huh?
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09:54<Eddi|zuHause>https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BhEuZKmCcAAcPAS.png
09:55<Rubidium>the horror
09:55<Rubidium>even inconsistent spacing and coding style
09:57<Xaroth|Work>enterprise coding does that to people
09:58<Rubidium>doesn't LLVM detect dead code?
09:58<Eddi|zuHause>i was wondering that as well. should be a trivial analysis
09:59<blathijs>Sure, it detects dead code and removes it for you, free of charge! :-)
09:59<Rubidium>it ought to warn
10:00<Rubidium>eclipse even goes so far as to throw an error and refuse to compile it (at least with the config I used and Java)
10:00<Rubidium>likewise... eclipse formats my code, so it's pretty much 100% consistently formatted w.r.t. curly brackets and the likes
10:01<Eddi|zuHause>real coders do everything manually
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10:02<Rubidium>that must give really crappy quality code
10:03<Rubidium>and probably a "one file for everything" approach
10:03<Rubidium>as manually figuring out which files' dependencies changed to compile them manually is a lot of work
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10:07<dihedral>i prefer netbeans :-)
10:07<dihedral>:-P
10:07<scshunt>Rubidium: Java has restricted goto rules though
10:08<scshunt>;)
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10:26<Xaroth|Work>scshunt: java has a plethora of other issues :P
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11:00<Eddi|zuHause>scshunt: but "goto" isn't even the problem, same would have happened with "return"
11:00<Eddi|zuHause>or "throw"
11:00<scshunt>yeah
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11:01<Eddi|zuHause>PS: this wouldn't have happened in python :)
11:04<Xaroth|Work>yay indentation \o/
11:04<Xaroth|Work>(besides goto not being available in python)
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11:22<andythenorth>hmm
11:22<andythenorth>so this assert of mine...
11:22<andythenorth>I am stumped :(
11:27<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I changed "if (!IsTileType(t, MP_WATER) || IsCoast(tile))"
11:28<andythenorth>but (kind of expected) the assert still occurs
11:28<Eddi|zuHause>"t" should be "tile"
11:28<andythenorth>I changed that
11:28<andythenorth>I have a different assert now though
11:28*andythenorth finds crash log
11:28<Eddi|zuHause>yes. different asserts need different solutions :p
11:29<andythenorth>he
11:30<andythenorth>Assertion failed at line 76 of /Users/andy/Documents/workspace/openttd/src/tile_map.h: tile < MapSize()
11:30<andythenorth>this only happens once the start screen game is running of course
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11:37<Eddi|zuHause>err, yes. means some check for out-of-map is missing, but i can't research how to solve that right now.
11:38<andythenorth>hrm
11:38<andythenorth>I'll see if I can see it anywhere else
11:38<Eddi|zuHause>try the "turn desert into rainforest around water" check
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11:39<andythenorth>yeah, looking there now :)
11:40<andythenorth>if I change the search radius to 5 instead of 2...the assert takes longer
11:40*andythenorth experiments
11:41<andythenorth>hrm
11:41<andythenorth>with 50 it lasts much longer
11:41<andythenorth>but the 2 hovercraft have disappeared from the start screen game :P
11:41<andythenorth>oh no, here they come
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11:43<andythenorth>12 eventually asserts
11:43<andythenorth>also the game runs like a slug
11:44<andythenorth>so I guess this tile search is called during pathfinding
11:44<andythenorth>how intriguing
11:44<andythenorth>anyway, enough of 'my first C++' project, back to work
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12:27<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: the most weird part about the "goto fail" thingie is, that it clearly entered an "error" state, but does did not prevent it from continueing
12:28<frosch123>so, can you still cicumvent the authentication my triggering some other error? :p
12:28<frosch123>there are tons of "goto fail" there, you just need to trigger one
12:29<@planetmaker>hehe, yeah. Wondered about that, too
12:29<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: i haven't really understood the details of the error, but i presume that it just silently failed and went into an unencrypted mode, without showing it?
12:37<frosch123>i have no idea, i just saw the screenshot, and thought that can't be the complete fix
12:38<frosch123>otherwise bananas is the only fruity thing i use
12:38<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure you could just look it up
12:38<frosch123>i'll leave that to __ln__
12:39<andythenorth>hrm, this patch :(
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13:14<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26372 trunk/docs/desync.txt (2014-02-24 18:14:53 UTC)
13:15<@DorpsGek>-Doc [FS#5927]: Typos.
13:22<frosch123>pff, V has one
13:22<frosch123>*won
13:22<frosch123>he made a network, which the pathfinder got lost in
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13:31<V453000>frosch123: ?
13:37<frosch123>fs#5926
13:37<frosch123>you broke the pathfinder
13:39<Eddi|zuHause>reminds me of the time when i repeatedly gave KUDr the same savegame "this train is lost (again) for no reason"
13:40<Eddi|zuHause>at least one instance it was because it was a mixed electrified/unelectrified, and it depended on whether an electric or diesel train went into the junction to cache the values
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26373 trunk/src/lang/hebrew.txt (2014-02-24 18:45:10 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>hebrew - 30 changes by oofnik
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13:58<Eddi|zuHause>"apple uses clang and the unreachable code warning is not part of '-W -Wall -Wextra'. but gcc also disabled the warning, because it would catch different parts of the code depending on which optimizer was used"
14:01<LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: clearlu, you should -Weverything
14:02<Eddi|zuHause>LordAro: that still does not help if they silently ignore the parameter
14:03<frosch123>LordAro: you should be happy about everyone who pays attention to Wall output
14:03<LordAro>:p
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14:19<@Alberth>hi andy
14:20<andythenorth>lo
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14:21<andythenorth>so doing a circular tile search in GetEffectiveWaterClass is probably stupid
14:21<andythenorth>and it asserts, but meh
14:22<andythenorth> a 'this is deep sea' flag on the tile would be better
14:22<andythenorth>but it would have to be terraforming-aware
14:22<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26374 trunk/src/table/newgrf_debug_data.h (2014-02-24 19:22:22 UTC)
14:22<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5928]: Mixed up callback mask flags in station inspect window. (adf88)
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14:25<Wolf01>hello o/
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14:26<andythenorth>lo Pikka Wolf01
14:26<Pikka>lo bob
14:27<andythenorth>mm pie
14:27<Pikka>mmmmm
14:27<Pikka>pie
14:27<andythenorth>I can see a pie from here
14:28<Pikka>well
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14:29<Pikka>when come back, bring pie
14:29<andythenorth>when come back, bring patch
14:29<andythenorth>for NewDeepWater
14:29<andythenorth>oh, I've jinxed it
14:29<andythenorth>with New
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: so what was the problem with my suggestion?
14:31<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: asserts, variable time to assert according to tile search distance
14:31<andythenorth>2 = as soon as start screen game appears
14:31<andythenorth>at 50, I didn't see an assert, but didn't test for long
14:32<andythenorth>also it might be doing a circular tile search every time the ship pathfinder runs?
14:32<andythenorth>otherwise it appeared to work, as proof of concept at least
14:33<Eddi|zuHause>solve things one step at a time
14:33<Eddi|zuHause>i suggestes looking at the "make rainforest near water" code
14:33<Eddi|zuHause>how they handle the map borders
14:33<Pikka>Nudey Pwarter.
14:33<andythenorth>they don't
14:34<andythenorth>afaict
14:34<andythenorth>'it just works' tm
14:34<andythenorth>same for lumber mill tile search
14:34<Eddi|zuHause>as for the other thing, i suggested doing the search in TileLoop_Water, and then storing it in the tile
14:34<andythenorth>+1
14:35<andythenorth>not that my opinion is worth much here :)
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>that part is easy, just write a map accessor and put it into water_map.h
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>one that writes the bit(s) and one that reads them
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14:37<Eddi|zuHause>i thought about 3 values: 0: this tile is coast or near coast, 1: this tile is somewhat off the coast, 2: this is deep sea
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14:37<Eddi|zuHause>river ships would traverse 0 and 1, and sea ships 1 and 2
14:37<andythenorth>makes sense
14:38<andythenorth>is it overkill?
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>no.
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>means a 3 tile wide canal can be freely crossed by river ships, but also used by sea ships. and a dock can be accessed by river ships
14:38<andythenorth>plz send me teh codez? o_O
14:39<Eddi|zuHause>no.
14:39<Eddi|zuHause>not doing any codez.
14:41<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: you would have to email it to me anyway. And I don't read email...
14:41<Pikka>is we playing an ottd tonight, or do we have to be productive?
14:41<Eddi|zuHause>then the code is in the mail :)
14:42<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: i haven't played openttd in over 2 years
14:42<andythenorth>Pikka: either
14:42<andythenorth>if there is a game I will play
14:42<andythenorth>otherwise I will make internets
14:43<frosch123>i would lilke to have more internets
14:43<andythenorth>there is no shortage tbh
14:43<andythenorth>in fact, I am making less internets, by deleting stuff
14:43<frosch123>i have only 60% of my regular speed today
14:43<andythenorth>well I am here to help
14:43<andythenorth>I am removing pages, putting in linkrot protection, and removing inbound links
14:43<frosch123>anyway, what to do about comments you don't understand? delete?
14:43<andythenorth>probably
14:43<Eddi|zuHause>there wasn't really anything worth my internets in the past few weeks
14:44<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: "//TODO: doesn't work <- WHAT doesn't work"?
14:44<andythenorth>Pikka: have you made a game?
14:44<Pikka>I have not
14:45<frosch123>hmm, package loss again, i'll try reconnecting another time
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14:54<andythenorth>someone make a game?
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14:54<Pikka>planetmaker? :D
14:55<Pikka>didn't you make the last couple, andythenorth?
14:55<andythenorth>yeah
14:55<andythenorth>I am cooking and such
14:55<andythenorth>try a different FIRS economy?
14:55<andythenorth>one of the basic ones
14:56<Pikka>hod is pretty good though
14:56<Pikka>I could make a save but I don't know how to server
14:56<Pikka>oh, there's that crash during window resize...
14:57<andythenorth>make a save, someone else servers
14:57<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26375 /trunk/src (rail_gui.cpp station_cmd.cpp) (2014-02-24 19:57:18 UTC)
14:57<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5929]: Station sizes > 8 were always allowed. (adf88)
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14:59<Pikka>yes they do
14:59<Pikka>so what did we say? 30k, 7 years?
15:00<andythenorth>ok
15:00<andythenorth>that is about 1.5 hours play iirc
15:00<Pikka>was it 30k though? I don't recall
15:00<andythenorth>we were starting 1950s or so before, something different?
15:00<andythenorth>30k is fine
15:00<andythenorth>make sure it AV8s :)
15:02<@Alberth>@calc 7*13.505
15:02<@DorpsGek>Alberth: 94.535
15:04<Pikka>generating a decent map is hard
15:04<andythenorth>yes
15:04<peter1139>rewrit eit
15:04<peter1139>again
15:05<andythenorth>took me ~40 attempts or so
15:05<andythenorth>and you have to get a nice set of cargos for NCG
15:05<andythenorth>newgame :P
15:05<andythenorth>over and over again
15:05<Pikka>is scrap metal a bad cargo?
15:06<Pikka>coal, goods, and metal?
15:07<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: i think you just broke the modern stations
15:08<Eddi|zuHause>hm, no. i was just dragging the wrong direction
15:08<andythenorth>Pikka: it's 'meh'
15:09<andythenorth>coal, goods and metal are fine
15:09<andythenorth>probably quite easy
15:09<andythenorth>famous last wordses
15:09<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: please test, i didn't :p
15:10<andythenorth>Pikka: where is map at?
15:10<andythenorth>:D
15:10<Pikka>still going :P
15:11<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: the berlin station can't be built in 8x8 anymore, only 8x4. but the error message is totally wrong, it says "cannot be built here" instead of something like "invalid size"
15:12<Pikka>okay, I suppose this one will do
15:12<Pikka>what do I with a savegame?
15:14<Eddi|zuHause>man that set is totally awfully coded...
15:16<andythenorth>Pikka: upload it somewhere, post a link
15:16<andythenorth>then we hope someone knows the magic commands
15:17<Pikka>http://pikkarail.com/junk/Unnamed,%201st%20Jan%201973.sav
15:19<Pikka>it seems someone does...
15:22<andythenorth>frosch123: Alberth Rubidium planetmaker et al - game on?
15:25<@Alberth>quite busy, and 1.5 hours is too late for me. Could do a bit though
15:25<andythenorth>let's go!
15:25<andythenorth>peter1139: play openttd?
15:26<@Alberth>where?
15:27<peter1139>What's that?
15:28<andythenorth>#openttdcoop.pro
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15:36<andythenorth>why does in-game chat fail if I ask a question
15:36<andythenorth>?
15:36<andythenorth>e.g. end the line in a ? char
15:36<andythenorth>it's quite annoying :)
15:37<Taede>ingame, or only the ingame->irc bit?
15:41<andythenorth>ingame
15:42<andythenorth>eats lines with punctuations chars
15:42<andythenorth>intermittently
15:43<Eddi|zuHause>osx issue?
15:59<andythenorth>likely
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17:02<__ln__>the u-boot movie that most people probably haven't seen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpPV4fewatE
17:10<andythenorth>Pikka: so can you just finish up IH for me? o_O
17:10<andythenorth>it's nearly done, right?
17:10<Pikka>clearly!
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17:11<Pikka>just need to depurple the coal
17:11<Pikka>and deinvisible the supplies
17:12<andythenorth>depruple is easy
17:13<andythenorth>hmm bedtime
17:13<andythenorth>gn
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18:20<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Tue Feb 25 00:00:14 2014