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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-02-26

---Logopened Wed Feb 26 00:00:16 2014
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04:01<dihedral>good morning
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06:42<dihedral>a bunch of those domains are also taken :-P
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08:49<Eddi|zuHause>so... what are the chances of russia invading ukraine now like they did georgia a few years ago?
08:49<Eddi|zuHause>i mean the reasoning would be the same: "we have to protect russians, even if they don't live in russia"
08:52<Rubidium>maybe the whole "invade other country for protecting people from your own country" seems to be a bit on a decline lately
08:54<Xaroth|Work>perhaps it'll be round two for 'omg they have WMDs!'
08:54<Eddi|zuHause>well, yes, we have been "defending germany on the hindukush" for over a decade now, that's bound to get tiresome.
08:57<MNIM>Eddi|zuHause: Ehhhh, I doubt it.
08:57<MNIM>unlike in Georgia the EU has vested (commercial) interests in Ukraine
08:57<Eddi|zuHause>MNIM: well i discussed this possibility yesterday with a friend pointing out the vast number of similarities. and today the newspapers say that russia mobilises its troops in the region
08:58<MNIM>Russia mobilizes troops at so much as a hickup :P
08:58<MNIM>and more importantly, isn't Ukraine on the transport route for gas and oil to the west?
08:59<Eddi|zuHause>that has never stopped russia from closing down that route :p
08:59<MNIM>hmmmmh, I suppose that's true
08:59<Eddi|zuHause>also, they built a pipeline through the baltic sea
08:59<Eddi|zuHause>not sure if it's operational already
09:00<__ln__>an invasion would secure control over the route
09:01<MNIM>I think you overestimate the amount of 'control' an invading force can exert
09:01<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, the scenario would be something like: Janukovic gathers support among the eastern ukrainian (majorly russian) population against the "illegal" seizing of power, and declares the region as independent, then asks russia for support
09:01<MNIM>still: what I mean to say: georgia was firmly embedded in the russian influence sphere.
09:01<MNIM>Ukraine, not so much
09:01<MNIM>that's the exact cause of the recent turmoils
09:02<Eddi|zuHause>there is no way this splitting of ukraine in a western and eastern half ends peaceful
09:03<MNIM>wait, is there serious talk of allowing it to happen now?
09:04<MNIM>last news I got was that was still something to prevent
09:04<Eddi|zuHause>no. that's the point
09:04<MNIM>but yeah, in that case a peaceful solution would be far away
09:04<__ln__>they could build a wall
09:07<MNIM>__ln__ Well, that's been historically proven to not be much better
09:07<Eddi|zuHause>the other point is that russias long-term geopolitical role can't really afford losing the influence over ukraine
09:09<Eddi|zuHause>which would at the very least result in a cold war between EU and russia
09:09<@planetmaker>there's little interest in that. Too much gas comming from Russia. So in case of doubt the EU will back down
09:09<Eddi|zuHause>which helps neither of them
09:10<@planetmaker>of course not
09:10<@planetmaker>but that's not the point of negotiations. The point is power. And market access.
09:11<V453000>everybody wants to buy rainbow slugs
09:11<V453000>poor guys
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09:26<Eddi|zuHause>hm, is there a button to reverse youtube playlists that i didn't see, or are you supposed to always view playlists in reverse chronological order?
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10:17<Nebol>Greetings folks! Question: I'm having problems setting up a dedicated server. It seems everyone has full admin access to the console. I have set admin password and rcon password but I can still open a console and run "newgame" for example. How can I prevent this?
10:18<Eddi|zuHause>typing "newgame" on the client should make you leave the server and start a local game
10:19<Eddi|zuHause>typing "rcon <pw> newgame" should reset the server
10:19<Nebol>ooh.. really? I have misunderstood then, thought I made the new game on the server!
10:20<@planetmaker>anything run in console without rcon doesn't influence the server
10:20<Eddi|zuHause>well i never tried, so maybe there really is a bug :)
10:20<Nebol>That's great news, have to check it out.. :)
10:20<@planetmaker>I would be really surprised
10:20<Nebol>Thanks guys!
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13:30<Wolf01>hi hi
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26380 trunk/src/lang/brazilian_portuguese.txt (2014-02-26 18:45:15 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>brazilian_portuguese - 2 changes by leandromoh
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14:02<rubenwardy>Is there any reason to use monorails over normal or electric?
14:02<lumlum>hello and good evening
14:04<@planetmaker>rubenwardy, yes, it's faster. And longer available
14:04<lumlum>im experimenting with failsafe shifters but they dont work - i tried versions from and but i seem to build something wrong ... can anyone provide some help?
14:05<@planetmaker>lumlum, they assume set yapf.rail_firstred_twoway_eol 1
14:05<lumlum>i did that
14:05<@planetmaker>that's a non-default path finder setting. ah, ok
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14:09<lumlum>i assume that i use some wrong signals ... i only used pbs so far, i can't say which of the other ones are used at the screenshots
14:09<@planetmaker>hi andythenorth
14:10<lumlum>im trying to build this one:
14:10<lumlum>hello andythenorth
14:10<@planetmaker>lumlum, well, the use of the correct signals is the important aspect there :)
14:10<@planetmaker>but... the graphics are quite clear, no?
14:11<@planetmaker>entry at the switch, combo to propagate. and exit at the end of the propagation chain
14:13<Eddi|zuHause>lumlum: the key to the signals is the signpost. yellow horizontal, white vertical and yellow vertical
14:15<lumlum>planetmaker: i think so, too ;) switch, propagate, propagation chain? they say nothing to me ... the 4 signals at the top rail are they combo or entry?
14:15<lumlum>for me they look the same from behind
14:16<Eddi|zuHause>you can decipher the signposts from behind as well
14:16<@planetmaker>they don't, though yellow and white are not easily distinguishable
14:16<Eddi|zuHause>maybe depends on your level of colourblindness :)
14:16<Eddi|zuHause>(or the base set you use)
14:19<lumlum>then i is colorblindness i guess ^^
14:20<lumlum>i got it working now i think but i dont know what signals i used *sigh*
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14:23<lumlum>ah, i figured that out ... just clicking them in signalbuild mode turns them, now even i can recognize them ^^
14:23<lumlum>thx for your help planetmaker and Eddi|zuHause
14:24<@planetmaker>lumlum, you could simply use the tile query tool. It will tell you the signal type(s)
14:24<lumlum>ah thx planetmaker, thats simpler indeed
14:24<Eddi|zuHause>well turning around signals is kind of a vital build mechanism :p
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14:26<lumlum>Eddi|zuHause: but i didnt think of it because turning them normally crashes something ... never touch a running system :P
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14:26<Eddi|zuHause>that is true :p
14:26<lumlum>once built i leave them be
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14:27<Eddi|zuHause>however, you can also ctrl+build to cycle through the signal types
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>also, stop all nearby trains :p
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>and the further away ones as well, just to be sure :p
14:28<lumlum>i do that, when building, but not once done i dont touch them ... the tile query tool is the better solution for my colorblindness xD
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14:29<lumlum>and now i works,my first failsafe shifter ... i should enhance my safegame with that ^^
14:29<Eddi|zuHause>someone once wanted to make a signal set for colourblind people relying on shapes instead
14:31<lumlum>thats a fine idea, but ill stick to the original ones for now that i can decifer them
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15:34<andythenorth>@seen pikka
15:34<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 22 hours, 7 minutes, and 17 seconds ago: <Pikka> I'll grab the new alpha anon
15:34<andythenorth>no game :P
15:34*andythenorth will have to do wrok
15:35<andythenorth>'someone' should poke at that deep sea patch
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15:39<@planetmaker> <-- that does cut quite some corners :P
15:40<@planetmaker>^ @ andythenorth
15:41<andythenorth>what and just store that in the map? o_O
15:41<andythenorth>one thing I had no clue about was changing the tile type due to nearby terraforming
15:43<@planetmaker>either store on map. At least cache it there
15:44<@planetmaker>but probably I'd just put that as water class. And only modify that when there's reason to modify it. Like terraforming in adjacent tiles or so
15:44<andythenorth>so let the map gen figure out the initial class?
15:45<@planetmaker>and not change it afterwards. New sea water is always coast
15:45<@planetmaker>created after map creation due to flooding
15:45<@planetmaker>That'll be the most simple solution
15:46<@planetmaker>s/coast/shallow sea/
15:46<@planetmaker>coast has a special meaning :)
15:48<@planetmaker>But I think this handling would go a long way. Rivers cannot be re-created after mapgen either
15:50<frosch123>you better put the new enum value at the end :)
15:50<frosch123>don't you have trouble loading the titlegame that way?
15:51<@planetmaker>testing is one way to cut corners :D
15:51<@planetmaker>I didn't even compile that yet
15:53<@planetmaker>(would also fail due to missing , in that enum entry :P
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16:23<andythenorth>I have 81 ships in my current game
16:23<andythenorth>only one of them is a 'river' ship :P
16:23<andythenorth>despite about 50% of them travel by river or canal
16:23<frosch123>do they actually say which type they are somewhere?
16:23<frosch123>if they do, i missed it :p
16:24<frosch123>add some icons to the purchase list maybe?
16:24<frosch123>like the train sets do with electric/steam/diesel
16:24<andythenorth>interesting idea
16:25<andythenorth>I'd have to put them in the sprite
16:25<frosch123>no idea what the icons would look like though
16:25<andythenorth>I was going to ask you for an idea :)
16:25<andythenorth>oh well :)
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16:25<@planetmaker>sea: use a wave icon
16:25<frosch123>prefixing the name with [S] or [R] would be the cheap solution :p
16:25<@planetmaker>river: use something like the SE river icon
16:25<@planetmaker>I like the icon idea much more :)
16:26<andythenorth>or remove the river ships...
16:26<@planetmaker>or maybe one giant wave for sea and shallow wiggle for river
16:26<@planetmaker>would be more iconigraphic that way
16:27<andythenorth>more deleting!
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16:34-!-planetmaker is now known as pm
16:35-!-pm is now known as planetmaker
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16:47<andythenorth>this FIRS basic idea of supplies from ports etc is much better
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16:55<andythenorth>if I drag enough canals, this lake will be canal
16:55<andythenorth>and my river boats will be workable
16:55*andythenorth needs half-tile canal building :(
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17:35<Wolf01>'night all
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20:44<Supercheese>I seem to be having a problem with NML's alternative_sprites
20:45<Supercheese>The syntax on the page indicates: alternative_sprites(block_name, zoom_level, type[, filename[, mask_filename]])
20:45<Supercheese>Implying that it can have 3,4, or 5 parameters
20:45<Supercheese>However, on compile NML complains that it only can have 2 or 3 parameters
20:47<Supercheese>Thus my code:
20:47<Supercheese>alternative_sprites (underground_vehicle, ZOOM_LEVEL_NORMAL, BIT_DEPTH_32BPP, "gfx/Shadows32.png")
20:47<Supercheese>is failing
20:47<Supercheese>although on earlier versions of NML it seems to work
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20:49<Supercheese>Specifically, the error seems to have crept in between r5100 and r5114
20:50<Supercheese>err, version
20:50<Supercheese>not revision
20:58<xT2>hi all :)
20:58-!-xT2 is now known as ST2
20:59<ST2> <<-- how can I report beta5 specifics?
20:59<ST2>not that case... but... how can I?
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21:19-!-Netsplit <-> quits: Rubidium, eQualizer, +michi_cc, theholyduck, Ammler, dihedral, roadt_, dfox, Xaroth|Work, luaduck, (+6 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them)
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23:18<Flygon__>Train Crashes are the worst
23:18-!-Flygon__ is now known as Flygon
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---Logclosed Thu Feb 27 00:00:18 2014