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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-02-28

---Logopened Fri Feb 28 00:00:21 2014
00:08<Flygon>Supercheese: It's not even that
00:08<Flygon>It's just that I have to redo an entire layout of the station
00:08<Flygon>I'm lucky I put nothing through yet
00:08<Flygon>Either way
00:08<Flygon>Iceland's full of Oil Pumps
00:08<Flygon>Shame about the map edges all being water :|
00:09<Flygon>Only ONE refinery on the whole map
00:09<Flygon>I'll have to see about getting it self-sustaining until I can build a very very long railway line
00:11<Flygon>Literally one refinery on an entire 2048*2048 map... kinda hurts @_@
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00:44<Supercheese>Oh lord, I am not understanding hg
00:44<Supercheese>merges and pushes and bears, oh my
00:46<Supercheese>ah screw it
00:46<Flygon>What's this about bears and pushing?
00:46<Supercheese>I don't understand how the devzone mercurial wizardry works
00:46<Supercheese>local copies, remote copies, merges
00:46<Supercheese>svn is nice and simple
00:46<Flygon>Well, I know how... uh...
00:47<Flygon>I have nothing to say that makes me sound intelligent
00:47<Supercheese>eh, now is not the time for coding
00:47<Supercheese>now is the time for video games
00:47<Supercheese>Twitch does nuzlocke run... whooboy
00:47<Flygon>...oh man
00:48<Flygon>How to actually LOSE at Pokemon
00:48<Supercheese>What happens if your last pokémon faints in nuzlocke? Permadeath to your trainer?
00:48<Supercheese>(so wildly off-topic)
00:48<Flygon>You black out
00:48<Supercheese>so, yes
00:48<Supercheese>Twitch wouldn't last two routes
00:49<Flygon>Nevermind how they got past the first two routes in the first place
00:50<Flygon>Yes, I saw :P
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03:23<dihedral>good morning
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04:30<@Celestar>foooo :)
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04:40<Xaroth|Work>o/ Celestar
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04:47<dihedral>uh - a Celestar - nice to see you sir
04:52<@Celestar>how is life?
04:54<dihedral>life is good, work is crap :-P
04:54<dihedral>that sums it up quite well, actually. how about yourself?
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04:58<@Celestar>actually work isn't really crap. just much. very much.
04:59<Xaroth|Work>i feel your pain
05:00<@Celestar>I need another life :P
05:01<Xaroth|Work>Or a clone
05:01<Xaroth|Work>but they might revolt :|
05:02<@Celestar>they would, :)
05:03<@Celestar>trying to catch up with openttd
05:06<@Celestar>which isn't easy considering :P
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05:19<Eddi|zuHause>there are only two notable things: CargoDist is finally in, and DBSet is still not released :p
05:22<@Celestar>will DBSet ever be released :)
05:24<@planetmaker>a Celestar !!
05:25<@planetmaker>dbset is openttd's duke nukem forever ;)
05:25<V453000>never or will be shit? :D
05:26<V453000>hello :)
05:26<@planetmaker>hey ho :)
05:28<peter1139>planetmaker, so it _will_ come out eventually?
05:28<@planetmaker>who knows?
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05:28<@planetmaker>we should quickly introduce something new for trains
05:29<@planetmaker>like real shunting or so
05:29<@planetmaker>that would add another two years for sure :P
05:29<@planetmaker>to the unspecified amount of time to pass anyway before release
05:31<Eddi|zuHause>"After the great success of the LEGO movie, warner now secured the rights for a Minecraft movie"
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05:57<@Celestar>who is acutally working on DBSet? :P
05:58<Eddi|zuHause>depends on what you call "work" :p
06:10<@Celestar>good question.
06:10<@Celestar>what do I?
06:10<Xaroth|Work>What do you what?
06:12<@Celestar>what do I call 'working on DBset'
06:12<@Celestar>maybe I should rephrase. who is planning to work on DBset ?
06:12<Eddi|zuHause>well MB claims he has picked up work on it since december
06:13<Eddi|zuHause>and is currently asking for input on engine selection for early steam engines
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06:54<Flygon>We need a TTD movie
06:56<TinoDidriksen>Well, write a screenplay.
07:05<Eddi|zuHause>"A man from chicago charged with drug cooking wore a 'Pollos Hermanos' T-Shirt on his arrest"
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07:11<Rubidium_>ave Celestar
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07:34<@Celestar>heya Rubidium_
07:41<@planetmaker>I actually believe that eddi is working on the true dbset :)
07:41<@planetmaker>by spirit but not name
07:44<Eddi|zuHause>again depending on the definition of "work" :p
07:45<Eddi|zuHause>but actually, a large part of the motivation behind CETS was the DR side of the whole story
07:46<Eddi|zuHause>(next to the whole longer wagons story)
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08:01<@planetmaker>and I still believe it will be one of the more interesting sets when it really becomes available, Eddi|zuHause :)
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09:47<V453000>I would believe more even in new DB set than CETS ever getting drawn :D
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10:49<Starlight>How do I load a game on the server?
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10:50<Starlight>How do i load a game on the Dedicated server I play on?
10:52<Starlight>Ok, How do I find out what number the savegame is then?
10:52<Starlight>I just figured out the load command..
10:53<Taede>there is also ls (list directory), cd (change dir) and pwd (current working dir)
10:53<Taede>just make sure you use rcon <rconpassword> load <savegame>
10:54<Taede>using load without the rcon bit would just load the game on your local client
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10:56<Taede>its bound to have one or 2 commands you may find useful too
10:58<Starlight>It doesn't work.. It just say "Load a game name or index"!
10:58<Starlight>I am typing in game number 2
11:01<Starlight>rcon Pass load 2
11:01<Starlight>Isn't working..
11:05<Starlight>I got it working using the console.. In the server window.. Rcon didn't work..
11:13<peter1139>rcon pass "load 2" maybe
11:13<peter1139>dunno if that ever got resolved
11:14<peter1139>or if i'm imagining it
11:31<Eddi|zuHause>i have a patch for that
11:32<Eddi|zuHause>i don't remember why it was not included
11:33<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure there was something wrong with the approach :)
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11:49<peter1139>Clearly it's too old.
12:00<Eddi|zuHause>only like 6000 revisions
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13:52<Wolf01>hello o/
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13:55<@Alberth>hi hi
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14:03<rubenwardy_>My cyclotron does not work.
14:03<rubenwardy_>The train just stops
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14:07<@Alberth>assuming you took it from openttdcoop, they have special openttd.cfg settings for the path finder
14:08<@Alberth> perhaps this?
14:08<rubenwardy_>I am reading from here:
14:09<@planetmaker>good even ink
14:09<@Alberth>ok, those things look way too complicated to bother about, to me
14:09<@Alberth>oddink planetmaker
14:10<@planetmaker>rubenwardy_, also the cyclotron on the openttd wiki might assume set yapf.rail_firstred_twoway_eol 1
14:10<@planetmaker>generally I don't consider cyclotrons a useful thing, though :)
14:10<@Alberth>iirc V claims the cyclotron to be ineffective mostly
14:10<@planetmaker>especially if it involves sharp curves like shown in the screenshot
14:10<@planetmaker>V is totally right with that claim :)
14:11<@planetmaker>(and I don't know how people get the idea that it's a coop thing to build - on the contrary)
14:11<rubenwardy_>Thaks, Alberth
14:11<@Alberth>for some value of 'work' no doubt :)
14:11<@Alberth>planetmaker: it looks like a complete chaos of tracks :)
14:11<@planetmaker>it's more efficient to implement a slight forward-priority with acceleration space
14:12<rubenwardy_>Thanks planetmaker
14:13<@planetmaker>(my definition of efficiency is flow or network throughput with trains stopping as little as possible)
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14:14<Matulla>hi all i got a question FARM Rail station i woudt like to unload also food processed by the foodfactory to carry away by lory how do i set up the train settings to unload the food and only load the corn
14:15<Matulla>it also carries the food away
14:15<Matulla>if the lory is not in station
14:16<@planetmaker>goto FARM and refit to CORN
14:16<@planetmaker>you need a trainset which allows autorefit in stations
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14:16<@planetmaker>opengfx+trains does allow that. AFAIK also NUTS and IronHorse
14:17<andythenorth>where is game? o_O
14:17<andythenorth>where is pikka?
14:17<Matulla>ok i will find a way
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14:17<andythenorth>so what's this thing about best passenger locomotive?
14:18<andythenorth>I didn't follow
14:18<@planetmaker>oh, that guy wants to convince everyone that the payment formula is crap
14:18<andythenorth>what's the problem with it?
14:19<@planetmaker>it's a non-monotonous function
14:19<@planetmaker>he shows graphs in that or another thread
14:19<andythenorth>assume I failed A-level further maths :P
14:20<@planetmaker>f(x) is monotonous, if for all x: f(x) <= f(x + deltx)
14:20<@planetmaker>and deltax > 0
14:21<valhallasw>andythenorth: monotonous = better service => more payment
14:21<andythenorth>so is the faster train better or not? o_O
14:21<@planetmaker>dunno. Probably not
14:22<@planetmaker>the slower one is a steamer. So ... it's cooler :P
14:24<@planetmaker>I need your vote for titlegame(s), andythenorth
14:25<andythenorth>where's the topic
14:26-!-|Terkhen| is now known as Terkhen
14:26<@planetmaker>vote actually ends... Sunday night CET :P
14:26<@Alberth>we should make the profit go down to 0, beyond 256 tiles :p
14:27<@planetmaker>haha :)
14:31<andythenorth>Entry 05 is interesting
14:31<andythenorth>zoomed out?
14:31<andythenorth>entry 05 is my favourite
14:31<andythenorth>too many boring big cities in the others
14:31<andythenorth>never use arctic, it's dour. Always use temperate
14:31<@planetmaker>:) send me a forum message or e-mail with your top 3 choices
14:32<andythenorth>oic :P
14:32<@planetmaker>easier to count then :)
14:32<@Alberth>the tricky part is that it must be 3 different choices :p
14:32<andythenorth>I only chose 2
14:32<andythenorth>the rest are blah
14:34*Alberth needs tea
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14:58<@Alberth>choices sent
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15:00<@planetmaker>would you want to stay anonymous or can I publish your vote afterwards?
15:01<@planetmaker>(I plan to publish it, so that everyone can check that I counted his/her vote correctly)
15:01<@Alberth>you can post my vote afterwards
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15:26<DDR>Well, got schooled by a guy building a *huge* coal transport network.
15:26<DDR>Got a bit of passenger going, but when you're making 60k/train it's hard to beat.
15:26<DDR>He had the network fucking *future-proofed*, too.
15:27<DDR>Cloverleaf interchanges and everything.
15:27<DDR>'twas quite the endevour, really.
15:28<@planetmaker>cloverleaves jam
15:28<DDR>… really?
15:28<@planetmaker>yes. They don't follow the rule "split before join". They do it the opposite
15:29<@planetmaker>thus trains can be blocked by trains which block the path they need to go
15:29<@planetmaker>thus a waits for be while be waits for a. All in a nice circle
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15:29<DDR>That makes sense, I guess.
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15:30<DDR>I'd never really considered it. Also, I must keep that rule in mind.
15:31<@planetmaker>that's actually the only important rule for network flow :)
15:31<@planetmaker>well. signaling. and ... :P
15:31<DDR>I thiiiink you just upped my game.
15:32<DDR>I actually understand signalling, mostly.
15:32<DDR>Some of the pre-combo-exit stuff is still a bit fuzzy.
15:32<@planetmaker>it gets complicated when one starts to play the path finder :)
15:33<@planetmaker>like making sure that trains with only one station in the order list do exactly what they are supposed to do and return still a big profit
15:33<DDR>I can, just, prevent my trains from reaching a station and turning back down the line because the station is full.
15:33<DDR>How do you make a profit with just one station? According to all I know, that should be strictly impossible.
15:34<Eddi|zuHause>that was not the content of the sentence :)
15:34<@planetmaker>it works fabulously. If you have the right network for it
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15:34<Eddi|zuHause>you ORDER it to one station, and let it go through a series of red or green signals to end up at another station
15:34<DDR>OH, that makes sense.
15:34<DDR>I forgot about implicit stations!
15:35<@planetmaker>works mostly only when you have a network dedicated to each cargo separately
15:35<DDR>I want one.
15:36<@planetmaker>or if you have trains which allow reasonable autorefit in stations
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15:36*DDR nods
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15:43<Eddi|zuHause>and you can't use cargodist
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16:00<Gallomimia>hi i'm a bit of a noob here. still trying to get my bearings with all that is "openttd" just playing a game where i'm messing with a maglev network. Having serious problems with the bridges slowing everything down. looking on google and seeing some kind of option for raising bridge speed limits but i don't know how to activate it. i'm open to suggestions of all kinds for making bridges not be such an impediment. thanks in advance fo
16:00<Gallomimia>r your tips
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16:10<@Alberth>make bridges as short as possible
16:10<@Alberth>and double, triple, or quadruple them
16:11<@planetmaker>Gallomimia, bridges will always slow down the fastest maglev trains
16:11<@Alberth>for your next game, you may want to look into some bridge NewGRF
16:11<@planetmaker>unless you find a NewGRF which raises the speed limit to beyond their speed. Not sure it exists
16:11<Gallomimia>i did see one in my search
16:12<Gallomimia>does it involve restarting the game?
16:12<@planetmaker>but if you don't cross water: build tunnels instead
16:12<@planetmaker>it involves starting a new game, yes
16:12<Gallomimia>yeah it's water
16:12<@Alberth>use ships instead :p
16:12*andythenorth hates docks on canals :P
16:12<andythenorth>I just built one
16:12<@planetmaker>alternatively: build canals in the water and leave one tile between them
16:12<Gallomimia>oh well it's only a night of play. i just built my first ship
16:12<@planetmaker>then clear the water between the canals
16:13<Gallomimia>my first time trying maglevs. decided to start with them instead of any other type of trains. very expensive :/
16:14<Gallomimia>only my second game. sure is fun. i'm finding some expansion to add more industries? seems neat. and i see there's a way to play massive coop games? is that big in the community/
16:15<@planetmaker>depends on whom you ask. I'd say 'yes'. But many play single player or competitive
16:15<@planetmaker>as for industry NewGRFs: you might try FIRS or OpenGFX+Industries
16:16<@planetmaker>with FIRS use tropical landscape and economy 'Heart of Darkness' (via NewGRF parameter). With OpenGFX+Industries just choose via parameters which industries you want to use (all default, but independent of climate, if you like)
16:17<Gallomimia>sounds like you're talking greek so far. :) let me just ask you this. is there a big desparity between all the different flavors of this game i'm seeing? i see ttdpatch which i think is a patch on the copywritten game. and then there's openttd and also a fork of it called simutrans?
16:17<Taede>mind that if you play with firs you will also need a trainset (and other vehicle sets) which will transport the non-standard cargoes
16:17<@planetmaker>good point, Taede ^
16:18<@planetmaker>anyway... have a nice weekend all of you. I'm off for now :)
16:18<Taede>simutrans is a different game altogether, no ties to openttd except for the premise to transport cargo
16:18<@Alberth>bye planetmaker
16:19<DDR>I didn't like simutrans half as much as OpenTTD, it seemed to have some UI issues and, in general, confused the heck out of me.
16:19<Gallomimia>thanks for that info. i'll stick with my openttd i think :)
16:19<DDR>It might be better now, though.
16:20<@Alberth>simutrans starts with routes for the trains, which is indeed more confusing at first
16:20<Gallomimia>was delighted when i started typing something in CLI starting with open and found it through tab completion
16:20<Gallomimia>what now?! there's a simcity like game installed on my system by default??? oooooooooo
16:21<@Alberth>actually, the original simcity is now open source, and known as micropolis. It does run at linux too
16:22<Gallomimia>bah that crap is boring compared to openttd!
16:23<@Alberth>in this channel, it is :D
16:23<DDR>Lincity's always been for Linux!
16:24<@Alberth>yeah, I haven't tried it for ages though
16:24<@Alberth>at some point they had too heavy graphics, rates of 1 frame / second isnot much fun :)
16:24<Gallomimia>lincity != micropolis?
16:25<Gallomimia>god bless open source.
16:25<DDR>Lincity goes way back, and has more of a 'civilization' bent to it.
16:25<DDR>That is, progress through the ages.
16:25<@Alberth>escape from the planet :)
16:25<DDR>You got that in Sim Earth.
16:26<@Alberth>lincity had it too, at least as one of the options to end the game
16:26<Gallomimia>open source principles for privacy and security concerns, openness and freedom and learning........ NO! I want remakes of old games ><
16:26<@Alberth>I learn remaking old games :p
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16:28<Gallomimia>yeah i would too if playing them wasn't so fun and distracting :P
16:28<andythenorth>airport limits are totally boring
16:28<andythenorth>where's the off switch?
16:28<Rubidium_>Alberth: learn or teach?
16:28<Gallomimia>i'm searching for the helicopter so i can send those to the oil platforms and pick up the mail and workers
16:29<Gallomimia>Rubidium_: the best way to learn is to teach
16:30<@Alberth>a bit of both, probably :)
16:30<andythenorth>helistation is awesome
16:30<Gallomimia>no helicopters :( perhaps you guys know an expansion?
16:30<Gallomimia>they graphically have helipads on them. the oilrigs that is
16:30<@Alberth>the game should have them
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16:31<andythenorth>what year?
16:31<@Alberth> near the bottom of the list
16:31<andythenorth>frosch123 how is health of ship smoke patch? o_O
16:31<Gallomimia>i'm at year 2048 in my game right now
16:33<andythenorth>ooh a big ship
16:33<andythenorth>I shouldn't be so surprised
16:33<andythenorth>I made the grf :P
16:34<frosch123>hmm, i coded that last year? didn't i?
16:34<@Alberth>likely :)
16:34<frosch123>there was always something other important :p
16:34<frosch123>but i needed to split/cleanup the first patch of it
16:35<andythenorth>frosch123: if you add it, I can add smoke support for it to Squid :)
16:35<andythenorth>that will keep me quiet for a day or so...
16:35<Gallomimia>alright here's a a pertinent question... what determine's a (example steel mill) firm's capacity or demand for raw materials? there's two close by and i wonder if one will eat up all the ore
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16:35<andythenorth>does your station cover both?
16:35<Gallomimia>no two different stations
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16:36<andythenorth>if each station only covers one mill, then there is no capacity or demand in the default game
16:36<andythenorth>unless you enabled cargo distribution
16:36<Rubidium_>IIRC a steel mill can handle about 24.000 a month
16:36<andythenorth>oh yeah, there's a hard limit :)
16:36<Rubidium_>(a normal one)
16:36<andythenorth>for the insane :P
16:36<Gallomimia>that's a ton.
16:36<andythenorth>some people reach it
16:37<Gallomimia>i'll certainly need to look for more mines...
16:39<Gallomimia>last question. is there any intermodal transport? how does transfer work? can i build a big depot for stuff to get dropped at and transfered to another train of the same type?
16:40<cib>Is there a simpler way to mod stuff like vehicle stats, cargo transportation prices and similar core settings, without going through the whole ".hex" aka grf stuff? I've honestly had more success modding games with their entire content defined as macros in huge .cpp files, than to figure out this grf stuff, and that's saying something.
16:41<frosch123>there is the "basecost mod" ready for all price stuff
16:41<frosch123>and there is "nml"
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16:43<frosch123>and well, i you want to go singleplayer, you can still edit the source for the default vehicles
16:43<DDR>Gallomimia: You can "transfer" the cargo off something at a station, and then that station has the cargo as if it were recieved from an industry.
16:43<Gallomimia>neat thanks frosch123
16:43<Gallomimia>yeah DDR it works like i imagined. i'm impressed :)
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16:44<DDR>To do intermodal, either build the two modes of transport in the same station, by placing the tiles next to eachother, or maybe hold ctrl for the station dialog.
16:44<Gallomimia>if i can afford more trains in this game i might get myself a depot
16:44<Gallomimia>station dialog?
16:44<cib>NML seems promising, but I haven't been able to find some useful reference documentation for it. A tutorial is nice, but doesn't help you with doing things not outlined in that tutorial.
16:45<DDR>There was a setting, at least a while back, for detached stations. If you held ctrl, I think, you could choose which station to attach the new station tiles to.
16:45<andythenorth>NML docs are there
16:45<andythenorth>you just have to figure out the navigation ;)
16:45<DDR>For example, you could have bus depots on one side of the road, and a train station on the other.
16:45<Gallomimia>cib the nice thing about an open/volunteer organization making a product like this is that you can help build that documentation by outlining all the things you want to know then writing it as you find out by asking questions :)
16:47<@Alberth>cib: bottom of the right blue column
16:48<cib>Well, main reason I'm asking is I found this: and this:
16:48<cib>That seems a much more convenient approach to scripting the game, and I was wondering if something like that existed for modifying said vehicle stats, prices, etc.
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16:50<cib>Is there a fundamental reason for that, or is it just a matter of writing the appropriate wrappers?
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16:51<Xaroth|Work>technically, it's more than doable to put it all in nuts
16:51<Xaroth|Work>but historically, newgrfs started out in ttdpatch (iirc)
16:51<Xaroth|Work>and openttd adopted it
16:52<@Alberth>nogo is for writing computer players, Gamescripts for "world control" (scenarios with triggers), and newgrf for concrete game things such as vehicles and industries
16:53<@Alberth>they exist and operate at different levels
16:54<cib>"world control" seems limited when you can't even control how much an industry is paying for transporting their goods =)
16:54<cib>But then, I have only a user's POV on the game.
16:55<Xaroth|Work>world control is done by the server
16:55<Xaroth|Work>newgrf changes the 'game rules'
16:55<Xaroth|Work>all clients need the same newgrf set as the server
16:55<andythenorth>these electric trains are not that fast
16:55<Xaroth|Work>whereas only the server requires the ai or nogo scripts
16:55<andythenorth>6,400hp, 155mph
16:55<@Alberth>andythenorth: add mooaar
16:55<andythenorth>but they take a long time to accelerate
16:55<andythenorth>maybe 2?
16:55<Gallomimia>what the heck. i thought i turned breakdowns off?
16:55<@Alberth>at least, maybe 5 :)
16:56<andythenorth>someone should do consist management :P
16:56<@Alberth>dont? :)
16:56<Gallomimia>oops :O
16:56<@Alberth>Gallomimia: setting it from the main menu (intro screen) has no effect when you load a game
16:57<@Alberth>a game has its own settings (except for a few)
16:57<@Alberth>you have to change them from in-game
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16:59<Gallomimia>yeah i'm not sure what happened. i changed it on my last game. i figured it would be the same for a new game. and there haven't been any noticable breakdowns yet. guess maglev is just stronger
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16:59<Gallomimia>now about the tunnels and bridges. can a tunnel go under a little stream?
17:00<Xaroth|Work>if the tunnel started on a level below said little stream, yes
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17:03<frosch123>Xaroth|Work: that main difference between newgrf and squirrel is, that squirrel is always asynchronous and is limited to network bandwidth. newgrf otoh are limited in storage and interaction
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17:04<Xaroth|Work>frosch123: that too
17:04<frosch123>so neither are capable of doing the job of the other one
17:05<Gallomimia>so when i see tunnels that are depressed in the ground in the examples of cloverleaves... are those dug using the landscape tool?
17:06<Xaroth|Work>the entrance/exit, yes
17:06<Xaroth|Work>the tunnel itself with the tunnel obviously
17:06<frosch123>yes, use the lower tool and drag it along one edge
17:06<cib>Hm.. I've definitely seen town populations shrink in the game. Is there a way to make a town shrink using gamescript?
17:06<frosch123>dragging the lower tool lowers all selected corners to one level below the starting corner
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>cib: shrink a town by destroying a house
17:07<frosch123>cib: bulldoze houses
17:07<frosch123>but generally towns shrink when houses are replaced with fountains and statues
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17:07<cib>You can bulldoze houses from gamescript?
17:08<cib>That's nifty.
17:08<frosch123>well, not really
17:09<frosch123>bulldozing is currently limited to companies, for some reason
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17:09<frosch123>but a gs can bulldoze a tile in behalf of any existing company
17:09<frosch123>as long as that company has good enough rating
17:10<frosch123>(i.e. a gs can ruin a company)
17:10<Eddi|zuHause>i was under impression that GS can also run commands as "world" owner
17:10<Eddi|zuHause>not just as a company
17:11<frosch123>not all, just some
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17:11<frosch123>actually very few
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17:21<andythenorth>when will rivers regenerate? o_O
17:27<frosch123>type "restart rivers" in the console
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17:35<Eddi|zuHause>is that a real thing?
17:35<andythenorth>try it ;)
17:36<Eddi|zuHause>sounds like something that just starst a new game :p
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17:38<Gallomimia>with lots of rivers :)
17:39<Gallomimia>is there anything that will tell me how "full" my vehicles get on a typical trip? what's the best way to guage whether my transport network is running at capacity and i should add vehicles?
17:44<Eddi|zuHause>Gallomimia: if you have cargo distribution enabled (in 1.4.0) there is a graph that shows how overloaded your transport links are
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>otherwise it's not easy to calculate, so the game does not do it for you
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>in general, look at the stockpile and the station rating of your stations
17:46<Gallomimia>cargo.... distribution
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>if high stockpile, add more vehicles
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>if low rating, add more vehicles
17:46<Flygon>It's basically a method of driving you nuts as commuters jam your buses and trams over capacity
17:46<Gallomimia>station rating is a mystery to me. but i've been watching the stockpile as a general guideline
17:46<Flygon>And you literally can't run more buses or trams :P
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>station rating is mostly how often a vehicle appears at the station
17:46<Gallomimia>Flygon: Eddi|zuHause is it an addon or an option?
17:47<andythenorth>sometimes it would be nice to be able to bin a cargo from a station
17:47<Flygon>In 1.4.0? An option
17:47<Eddi|zuHause>Gallomimia: it's an option in 1.4.0-beta, but not in 1.3.3
17:47<Gallomimia>ah. it looks like i'm running 1.3
17:47<Gallomimia>1.3.1 :/ odd that
17:48<Eddi|zuHause>distributions often don't update their repositories
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17:52<Flygon>I still can't take the word repository seriously ever since Tony Abbott coined "Suppository of Knowledge"
17:52<Eddi|zuHause>no idea who or what that is
17:53<Flygon>Currently? Australia's Prime Minister
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17:53<Eddi|zuHause>i suppose i knew that once and filed it under "completely irrelevant information"
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17:55<Eddi|zuHause>hm, looks like the invasion has started...
17:57<Flygon>Probably because he's an awful PM
17:57<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: that's your problem, not mine :p
17:58<Flygon>It'll be yours when he somehow engages Nuclear War with Indonesia
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18:09<Flygon>I forgot how painful building railroads in mountains is
18:09<Flygon>Esp. double track
18:09<frosch123>i thought that is the best part
18:10<Flygon>It looks awesome in the end
18:10<Flygon>But it's still tedious :P
18:11<Eddi|zuHause>the biggest pain of that is that you can't terraform a railway bank without affecting half the map
18:11<Eddi|zuHause>plus the lack of diagonal inclinations
18:12<Flygon>Diagonal inclinations lacking are the most annoying part
18:12<Eddi|zuHause>but i don't see a sensible way to implement them. diagonals would be twice as steep
18:13<Eddi|zuHause>you get glitches at tile edges and stuff
18:13<Eddi|zuHause>so you'd need something that stretches two or three tiles
18:13<Flygon>Could always build a seperate game that's basically a 3D sandpit that avoids the issues 2D has
18:13<Flygon>But that'd be difficult
18:14<Eddi|zuHause>the forums are filled with the bodies of people who tried and failed :p
18:17<Flygon>I might just have to use a shuttle bus
18:17<Flygon>To get passengers to the railway station
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18:18<Wolf01>'night all
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18:43<DDR>Flygon: See for my attempt.
18:43<Flygon>I gotta stop reading that as QUBE Trains
18:43<DDR>It kind of turned into a puzzle game, though.
18:44<DDR>Ah, yes.
18:44<Flygon>Either way, looks rather interesting :3
18:46<DDR>I, myself, eventually aim to put trains in more than a 3D sandbox - a mandelbulb-based voxel map could be fairly interesting, no?
18:47<Flygon>Oh wow o.o!
18:47<NGC3982>DDR: You need a faster server.
18:48<Eddi|zuHause>yes, fractals look amazing
18:48<DDR>This one's just github static pages.
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18:49<DDR>The immeadiate problem is that I don't really math at this level, and that the especially interesting bits of the mandelbulb are spread far apart and at different zooms.
18:51<Eddi|zuHause>i'm currently fiddling with more "discrete" fractals. ones you can produce with finite automata
18:52<Eddi|zuHause>they don't look as pretty
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18:56<DDR>Interesting videos near the end, here.
18:57<DDR>Watching fractals morph in 3D always makes me feel like I've come across something scarily mouldy in the back of my fridge.
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18:58<DDR>(video 2)
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19:21<Supercheese>Someone really tested the capabilities of 3D printing
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19:25<Gallomimia>wow its big too
19:26<Supercheese>"Some assembly required" ;)
19:26<Gallomimia>oh yeah it's from parts. amazing
19:26<Flygon>It's almost as long as I am tall!
19:28<Supercheese>I have a 3D printer... but man, that's something else
19:28<Supercheese>best I've done are keychains really :P
19:28<Supercheese>Hmm, I suppose I could print OTTD vehicles...
19:28<Supercheese>zBase has the models
19:29<Flygon>Dumb question related to that: How difficult (or, more to the point, possible) is it to have vehicles change their sprite not just for the 8 directions, but to smooth out the positions inbetween, and to also account for the slope?
19:29<Gallomimia>i seem to have seriously underestimated the profitability of oil ships on a big map
19:30<Flygon>Or would storing all the necessary sprites in 32bpp format take up too much VRAM?
19:30<Supercheese>I don't think there are even variables to allow for slope...
19:30<Supercheese>curves have magic vars
19:30<Supercheese>dunno about z-height changes
19:30<Flygon>Hmm, alright
19:31<Flygon>I knew about the curves one, but wansn't sure about z
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19:31<Supercheese>I'd be very interested if someone has a method for slope-sprite display
19:31<Flygon>Though, the real issue is... it's not possible to draw in 2D form unless the artist is REALLY patient
19:32<Supercheese>well, the new pixeltool could automatically interpolate the views
19:32<Flygon>And I'm not sure how much VRAM would be needed for full sized 32bpp sprites, if the z axis could be accounted for
19:32<Supercheese>it takes the 3-anble projection and makes 9-directional isometrics already
19:32<Flygon>I meant hand pixel art, not 3D render. A sensible person would default to 3D tho
19:32<Flygon>(imagine having to do both curve AND slope... even MORE VRAM taken :D)
19:33<Supercheese>I mean this:
19:33<Supercheese>Code seems like it could be extended for more views
19:33<Flygon>Ahh, right
19:33<Flygon>The voxel tool
19:33<Supercheese>it's a very, very slick tool
19:33<Flygon>I <3 Voxels
19:33<Flygon>Shame they never took off
19:34<Flygon>Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri has absurdly good looking 3D models, thanks to voxels
19:34<Flygon>Shame we're only just cracking the format (Caviar went out of business before the expansion pack was released)
19:35<Supercheese>Age of Empires 2 rendered from 3D models if I'm not mistaken
19:36<Supercheese>not sure what process they used though, and Ensemble is dead
19:36<Flygon>Age of Empires II used pre-rendered 3D models
19:36<Flygon>No voxels
19:36<Flygon>They used bog standard 3D software, nothing was realtime
19:36<Flygon>And rendering the game's units with voxels would've likely killed computers worldwide at the time
19:37<Supercheese>oh, you mean realtime stuff
19:37<Flygon>SMACX only really gets away with it because it's not animating everything 24/7
19:37<Flygon>Yes, I mean realtime
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20:01<Flygon>AoEII could prolly be done with voxels realtime on PC's... as of 2005, honestly
20:20<Supercheese>Isn't there an AoE2 HD?
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20:52<Gallomimia>i like how they call it the "age" of empires as if the age for empire building and running and fighting over was over ^^
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21:03<Gallomimia>is there a secret to being able to buy helicopters? don't seem to be able to build any airports where i can buy those...
21:03<Supercheese>Nah, it's just the second age
21:03<Supercheese>There's one age, another age, another... and here we are today in the nth age
21:03<Supercheese>Empires continue rise and fall
21:03<Supercheese>continue to*
21:04<Eddi|zuHause>the default set doesn't have helicopters at all times
21:04<Supercheese>As for helicopters, if available they should be from any airport hangar or heliport hangar
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21:11<Gallomimia>the only airport i can build is the commuter, and no helicopters
21:11<Gallomimia>i have a helluva lot of oil plats. would sure like to service them with mail and workers
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21:17<Supercheese>What year is it, and what grfs are running?
21:17<Supercheese>(if any)
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21:18<Gallomimia>default grfs, and it's 2053
21:19<Supercheese>I think all of the helicopters in the base set have expired by then
21:19<Gallomimia>drat. i thought i'd turned expiring vehicles off
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21:19<Supercheese>You can fix it
21:19<Gallomimia>that'll help
21:19<Supercheese>basically, make sure never expire vehicles is on
21:19<Supercheese>then run the console command "reset_engines"
21:21<Supercheese>that, of course, has the side effect that ALL old vehicles will be available for purchase
21:23<Gallomimia>expiring is great as long as there's something to replace it :P
21:24<Gallomimia>the first game i played had the interesting caveat of the only regular rails locomotive available expiring after i'd gotten a decent sized rail network built
21:25<Supercheese>Yeah, default set has some issues with expiry
21:27<Gallomimia>really makes me question as to why it's a default set anymore...
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21:41<Supercheese>OGFX+ should be the "default set" these days IMO
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21:44<Eddi|zuHause>but it isn't. and it's not going to be either.
21:44<Eddi|zuHause>same reason why there's no default AI
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21:46<Eddi|zuHause>besides, the default set is perfectly playable. why change it?
21:55<Supercheese>No trams, helicopters that expire, no support for exotic cargoes...
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21:55<Supercheese>but it is easy enough to grab some newgrfs
21:56<Supercheese>so, eh, guess there's not a particularly pressing need to change it
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22:09<Gallomimia>jeeze you hope and wish for so long to have a decent profit base to start throwing all kinds of money into trains and depots and then it happens and it's overwhelming where do you start?
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22:14<Gallomimia>in order to make trains less collidy-deadlocky do you guys usually put one way signals and make them stay on their own side of the 2track system?
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22:30<Supercheese>I do
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22:30<Supercheese>Two tracks, one up one down, one-way path signals every X tiles
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22:57<Flygon>Gallomimia: Interestingly, the most crashproof systems I've used are single track lines with crossing loops and one-way signals
22:58<Flygon>I'll set up a livestream on my desktop to show what I mean, if you want
22:58<Flygon>Lemme just finish drawing up a new forum avatar
22:58<Flygon>Given my current one misrepresents my gender, species, choice of clothing, and eye colour
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23:40<Gallomimia>flygon no it's not necessary. crossing loops are an interesting term. but i've already got a serious network with dual tracks. i'm going to try the one way signals. just a little in the dark still about how they work
23:40-!-Japa [~Japa@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:40<Flygon>I got a two-track network y'know
23:40<Flygon>I'll launch OpenTTD, close TPP stream, and launch Livestream
23:40<Gallomimia>is it safe to assume the "choice" of clothing being misrepresented is not in that of style but for or against?
23:41<Gallomimia>tpp stream?
23:41<Flygon>Lemme check if the previous stream thumbnails will show NSFW stuff
23:41<Gallomimia>we have a stream for tpp?
23:41<Gallomimia>heh. i'm not adverse to nsfw
23:41<Gallomimia>games are technically nsfw :P
23:41<Gallomimia>that pretty much puts this whole channel in that category with it right ;)
23:41<Flygon>Ah, alright, no thumbs
23:42<Flygon>Gallomimia: I actually meant more... ahem. Non-gamey material
23:42<Gallomimia>still has "play" in the title
23:42<Eddi|zuHause>just put "it's not me in the avatar, it's <X>" into your signature, like everybody else
23:43<Flygon>"It's my unspecified species alter-ego"
23:43<Eddi|zuHause>there was one guy who had "unlike everybody else's avatar, mine is actually me"
23:44<Eddi|zuHause>however, that doesn't mean it's true ;)
23:44<Gallomimia>i'd like to say, this is the most friendly and welcoming and fun-to-be-in irc channel i've found so far. pleased to meet you all :)
23:45<Eddi|zuHause>that's because all the evil people are not on at 6AM :p
23:46<Flygon>Does this work?
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23:47<Gallomimia>:( no because i don't have flash on this computer
23:47<Gallomimia>let me fire up one that does
23:47<Flygon>And it's groaning at me for using too higher a res
23:48<Flygon>Soooo... expect a tad choppyFPS :P
23:48<Flygon>Others are invited too! :B
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23:51<Gallomimia>not so sure about the fidelity of my network uplink :(
23:52<Flygon>It's only 300kbits
23:52<Gallomimia>yesterday at this time it was getting 66% packetloss and pings from 200ms-2000ms to google's freedns
23:52<Eddi|zuHause>just two years ago that would already hit my total bandwidth
23:53<Gallomimia>yeah. something's wrong. it's having trouble loading the static elements on the livestream page
23:53<Flygon>Eddi: I'm lucky to get what I got
23:53<Gallomimia>something's happening now
23:54<Flygon>I don't see anyone in yet
23:57<Flygon>Ah, I got two viewers
23:57<Flygon>Is one of them you, Gallo?
23:57<Gallomimia>everything else is loading pretty fast. including the slowest webpage in the world: facebook
23:57<Gallomimia>how should i know all i got is the spinning load wheel
23:57<Flygon>Ow x:
23:57<Gallomimia>by the way: flying cars are here. when do we put them into oTTD?
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23:58<Flygon>When we have a decent automobile AI >_<
23:59<Gallomimia>that's worth making just to put flying cars in :P
---Logclosed Sat Mar 01 00:00:26 2014