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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-03-09

---Logopened Sun Mar 09 00:00:48 2014
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01:44<TheStevens>ergh
01:44<Supercheese>problem(s)?
01:46<TheStevens>probably just retardation
01:47<Supercheese>err, ok...
01:50<TheStevens>was encouraged to change from svn to hg because it's more useful. Did so and now my makefile is broken, despite it not changing at all.
01:51<TheStevens>as I said, retardation is most likely the cause.
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03:23<Flygon_>Urg... the most shameful of fixing traffic congestion methods
03:23<Flygon_>Sending all vehicles to depot to rethink EVERYTHING
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03:59<TheStevens>yeah, I broke everything. joy
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05:02<@planetmaker>moin
05:02<triad>:)
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05:03<@planetmaker>sometimes I really want to answer "no, you can't. But all other people seem to be able" ;)
05:03<@planetmaker>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1113859#p1113859
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05:05<Flygon>Gah... random coal mine pops up right where I was about to build a station
05:05-!-sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has joined #openttd
05:05<@planetmaker>tehehe :)
05:05<@planetmaker>annoying as it can take ages before it disappears again
05:06-!-PhreeZZZZzzzz is now known as Phreeze
05:06<Flygon>Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep
05:06<Phreeze>re
05:06<Phreeze>hm...scenario editor -> boom
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05:11<Flygon>It'd be nice if there was a feature where I could PAY an industry to shut down
05:11<Flygon>Compensation ect
05:11<Phreeze>lol
05:12<Flygon>I am 100% serious
05:12<Phreeze>like: bribe the local green party to force shutting down industries^^
05:12<@planetmaker>it's called the magic bulldozer cheat
05:12<Flygon>Yes, but I don't want it on the savegame record D:
05:12<@planetmaker>lol. Wants to cheat but not admit
05:12<Phreeze>then you should wait ^^
05:13<Flygon>Trying to free up room for 2 platforms...
05:14<Flygon>Soooo lucky it's just 2. Roll in-Roll out Maglev
05:14<Flygon>Sooo... giant balloon loop
05:15<Flygon>Okay, whelp
05:15<Flygon>Removing overground bypass track and time to congest an understation tunnel even further :|
05:15<Flygon>THANK YOU COAL MINE
05:17<Phreeze>lol, screenshot it, show us :)
05:18<Flygon>All of this
05:18<Flygon>Just to build a 2 track platform...
05:18<Flygon>Screenieing
05:20<__ln__>should openttd contain a button for sharing stuff on e.g. Twitter?
05:20<Phreeze>oh noes...
05:20<Phreeze>it would remind of those free2pay games
05:20<Phreeze>"share your new giant potato"
05:20<Flygon>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2651992/Art/Other/iceland2002funkyoucoalmine.png
05:20<Phreeze>"share your idiocy buying a pumpkin for 10$"
05:21<Phreeze>looks beautiful :)
05:21<triad>Flygon: nice !
05:21<Flygon>Shame about the coal mine
05:21<Flygon>So yeah
05:21<triad>680 road vehicles ?
05:22<Flygon>Gonna build that Maglev platform now and wait 3 years :|
05:22<Flygon>680?
05:22<Flygon>Oh goodness no
05:22<Flygon>1824 atm
05:22<Flygon>My Europe game has 3500ish
05:22<Phreeze>where do you want to place tat maglev station ?
05:22<Flygon>Where the arrow is pointed
05:22<triad>huh, i hate vehicles..they need replacement
05:22<Flygon>It'll be a Roll In-Roll Out platform
05:22<Flygon>In a Balloon Loop fashion
05:22<Phreeze>connected to your CBD East station ?
05:23<Flygon>Yep
05:23<Phreeze>do you use double-double tracks ? for fast and slow trains ?
05:23<Flygon>Depends on the line
05:24<Flygon>I get the feeling you're far better with OTTD than I am x3
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05:24<Phreeze>i just use normal track types ^^
05:24<Phreeze>put all the trains to it hehe
05:24<Phreeze>just use 2nd line with waypoints if the freight annoys my passenger trains
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05:25<Flygon>More sensible than me, hahaha
05:25<Phreeze>afk taking my monthly shower :>
05:26<Flygon>Hrmm
05:26<Flygon>14 car long Maglev trains
05:26<Flygon>Shorter than I want
05:26<Flygon>But the coal mine demands it :|
05:26<Flygon>IT BETTER DIG UP A BLOODY HELIX FOSSIL ;_:
05:26<Flygon>Shower well!
05:29<Flygon>fml
05:29<Flygon>392km/h speed limit on the incoming curve
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05:33<Supercheese>Twitch plays OTTD
05:33<Supercheese>O_o
05:33<Flygon>osnap
05:34<Supercheese>too many possible inputs
05:34<Supercheese>bankruptcy within minutes
05:36<Flygon>445km/h, 16 tile long train...
05:36<Flygon>Well
05:36<Flygon>Best result I coulda hoped for
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05:40<Flygon>Annd now I wish I had sideways bridges x.x
05:41<Wolf01>moin
05:41<Flygon>Building Maglevs with consistant speeds is so dificult x.x"
05:41<Flygon>Huomenta!
05:44<Phreeze>twitch ?
05:44<Phreeze>link
05:45<Phreeze>yeah diagonal bridges would be cool, but we know that it will never happen
05:46<andythenorth>oh
05:47<andythenorth>it must be very frustrating being fonso
05:47<@planetmaker>do we know that diag bridges never will happen? Strange
05:48*planetmaker didn't
05:48<Phreeze>probably not in the near future..
05:48<andythenorth>being cdist maintainer must invove a lot of 'le sigh'
05:48<Phreeze>at least they all stated it like that in the forums^^
05:48<andythenorth>no, cdist shouldn't screw with the station ratings
05:48<@planetmaker>I fear you're right
05:48<andythenorth>no, it is *not* cdist's job to place industries
05:49<andythenorth>etc
05:49<Phreeze>yesterday, i got an idea: is it possible (i think it's easy) to make a newgrf with additional bridges, that have 2 tracks directly, like those station-newgrfs that are forced 2-wide
05:49<Flygon>I wish it was. It wouldn't put coal mines adjacent to passenger-only stations :B
05:49<Phreeze>2-wide-bridge
05:50<Flygon>What'd be neat, are bridges that're only layable to a certain width
05:50<Phreeze>which means ?
05:50<Flygon>For example, Sydney Harbour Bridge would be around 6 railway tracks wide
05:50<Phreeze>ah k. yeah could add it to that same newgrf
05:50<Flygon>2 Tram Tracks, 2 Railway Tracks, 2 Road Lanes at design
05:50<@planetmaker>no, that's not possible
05:50<Phreeze>yep.
05:51<@planetmaker>currently
05:51<Phreeze>is it cause of calculations of "the tile where the bridges starts and ends" ?
05:51<Flygon>(all the Tram lanes got converted to Road lanes around 1960)
05:53<Flygon>(I don't know if it was a dual carriageway or just standard 2 lane road at construction)
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05:59<@planetmaker>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action3/Railtypes#cargo-type <-- Phreeze for instance railtypes would - in principle - support diag bridges ;)
06:00<Phreeze>10 sprites if we ever include diagonal bridges.
06:00<Phreeze>doesn't sound like "near future" hehe
06:00<@planetmaker>:)
06:00<Flygon>In principle...
06:01<Phreeze>Flygon from Australia ?
06:01<Phreeze>another one :) we want to visit Australia next year...so i got some slaves that can give me advices ;)
06:01<Flygon>My advice?
06:01<Flygon>When travelling in Victoria
06:01<Flygon>Always take the peak V/Lines
06:02<Flygon>Discount fares because connie never checks tickets on crush load HSTs!
06:02<Flygon>By the time they check half a carriage, DMU is at next station!!
06:03<Flygon>Kinda wish the 2CC set had a more varied Maglev implementation
06:03<Flygon>eg. the metro Maglevs
06:03<Flygon>But, the real solution is for me to unlazy and to pay people to make a GRF!
06:04<Phreeze>i think we will probably travel by car and plane
06:04<Flygon>:(
06:04<Phreeze>haha, pay someone for Newgrfs, cool idea ^^
06:04<Flygon>But Victoria has an extensive rail system!
06:04<@planetmaker>you should give yourself the joy of travelling with either the ghan or the other one, whose name I forgot
06:04<@planetmaker>was quite joyful
06:04<Phreeze>i think i'll ask our favorite travel office first, what's possible in like 3 weeks
06:05<Phreeze>i can't afford more than 3 weeks off work :-/ only have 35 days per year
06:05<@planetmaker>took me 24h from Sydney to Broken Hill. But was quite worth the time
06:05<Phreeze>i saw an episode about the Ghan on youtube this week :)
06:05<Flygon>The Syd-Broken Hill train is 24h? O_o
06:05<Phreeze>extreme railroads or so
06:05<Flygon>I thought they used Prospector Railcars! O_O
06:05<@planetmaker>roughly. Maybe my memory serves me badly and it was less. But was over night
06:05<Flygon>Oh
06:06<Flygon>Right, you took a loco hauled train
06:06<Phreeze>lol just googled Prospector Railcars
06:06<Phreeze>these are dmus ?
06:06<Phreeze>from the look
06:06<Phreeze>http://www.pinterest.com/pin/450711875179375131/
06:06<Phreeze>weird to see rails without catenary ^^ nonexistant in europe
06:07<Phreeze>(or nearly let's say, for normal passenger traffic at least)
06:07<@planetmaker>uh... they exist just a few hundret metres from here
06:07<@planetmaker>also for passenger traffic
06:07<Flygon>In Australia? We make DMUs accelerate as fast as European EMUs. Or faster :D
06:07<Taede>same here
06:07<Taede>though they are electrifying the line soonish
06:07<Flygon>And that's not a Prospector
06:08<Phreeze>our EMUs are limited in speed cause of the short distances ^^ and many curves, due to terrain
06:08<Flygon>Oh, shit
06:08<Flygon>Sorry, I was confusing an NSW DMU with a WA DMU
06:08<Phreeze>http://www.pinterest.com/pin/450711875179375094/
06:08<@planetmaker>Flygon, most dmus, so I'm told, meanwhile are diesel-electric engines. Thus the diesel powers an electric motor. And then they can use the same motors :)
06:08<Phreeze>that's opne ?
06:08<Flygon>They're related, but not the same
06:08<Flygon>planetmaker: We use Diesel-Hydralic for the fast accelerating ones here
06:08<Flygon>eg. the VLocity DMUs
06:08<Phreeze>what Diesel-Engine uses clutches etc and power that goes directly to the wheels ?
06:09<@planetmaker>my car? :P
06:09<Phreeze>(i'm not that into the technics of locos..)
06:09<Phreeze>haha planet :D
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06:09<Flygon>Sorry, constantly confusing the Prospector and the Xplorer/Endeavor railcars
06:09<Flygon>They're related to eachohter
06:09<Flygon>eachother*
06:09<Phreeze>*proud of his 2l turbo*
06:09<Flygon>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Countrylink-Xplorer-2502-at-Central.jpg
06:10<Flygon>That's the type that runs to Broken Hill
06:10<Phreeze>cool Flygon, building architecture is exactly what we got in our capital here :D
06:10<Phreeze>immediately thought of a city here hehe
06:11<Flygon>Ah, yes
06:11<Phreeze>we mainly have these: http://www.rail.lu/im/x3/2203_teiteng_1.jpg
06:11<Flygon>Older buildings here are very British and European influenced
06:11<Flygon>What odd looking DD trains!
06:11<Phreeze>and from later this year, some Stadler KISS: http://www.rail.lu/im/x3/IMG_1395.jpg
06:11<Flygon>My city doesn't have DDs, but Sydney's entire suburban network is DDs!
06:11<Phreeze>it's an Alstom Coradia Duplex. also used in france. It's in the 2CC set
06:12<Flygon>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/Cityrail-Tangara-G6-ext.jpg Classy as hell.
06:12<Phreeze>lot's of those too: http://www.rail.lu/im/x3/190512-2019-Bettembourg.jpg
06:12<andythenorth>should RV speeds be realistic?
06:12<andythenorth>it kind of limits any option for different types
06:12<Phreeze>haha, star wars train or what
06:13<Flygon>I love how the Tangara sets look!
06:13<Flygon>It's a shame they'll be retired within 25 years :(
06:13<andythenorth>if all trucks are pegged to 65mph, that's one fewere variable available for interesting gameplay choices
06:13<Flygon>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/Melboure_Comeng_381M_Metro.jpg My city only has single deckers D:
06:14*andythenorth bbl
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06:14<Phreeze>we dont have a metro
06:15<Phreeze>cause it's impossible to build one ^^
06:15<Flygon>It's pretty much Metro in name only here...
06:15<Phreeze>the city is mainly 2/3 plateaus, sourrounded by narrow valleys, 50meter deep
06:15<Kjetil>because of all the tunnels dug out from the nearby prison ? :P
06:15<Phreeze>no ^^
06:16<Phreeze>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Luxembourg_(city)_-_view_from_Metz_square.jpg
06:16<Flygon>Acceleration on lots of sets is too slow, they share a fair few lines with Diesels (loco hauled trains are a bit of a... difficulty), and... it's hard to explain
06:16<Flygon>Basically, inner urban areas have tight station spacing
06:16<Phreeze>2 parts are separated and connected by 2 bridges
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06:16<Flygon>But the longer distance lines have a lot of distance between stations, allowing for the top speed to be helds for a tad too long...
06:16<Phreeze>it's australia :D it's all about distances
06:17<Phreeze>our country is 52km wide
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06:17<Flygon>My state's the size of Poland. We're the smallest mainland state! :D
06:17<Phreeze>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxembourg
06:17<Phreeze>it takes me 30 mins to go to one of 3 surrounding countries xD
06:17<Flygon>Phreeze: Your country is smaller than Melbourne O_O
06:17<Phreeze>^^
06:18<Flygon>Man
06:18<Flygon>And I thought taking only 2 and a half hours by HST to New South Whales was a kick
06:18<Flygon>...
06:18<Phreeze>in 2 hours i'm in Paris
06:18<Flygon>Wales
06:18<Phreeze>with the TGV
06:19<Flygon>A Welshman is going to punch me in the face
06:19<Phreeze>we have a direct connection for some years now
06:19<Flygon>Though, the VLos almost never achieve HST speeds
06:19<Flygon>200km/h is only achieved in testing (reportedly, once they tried for 220-230km/h... everything went perfectly... except that parts of the front panelling was literally being vibrated off by the engines)
06:19<Phreeze>i don't think our's go over 100kmh
06:20<Flygon>And 160km/h is a difficulty due to tight station spacing on a lot of lines D:
06:20<Phreeze>should ask a friend, he's a loco driver
06:20<Phreeze>*ours
06:20<Flygon>(sooo, yeah. We have HSTs, but running them at HST speeds is a bit of a... difficulty :B)
06:21<Flygon>Hmm
06:21<Flygon>Is the station spacing that tight? Or just too tighter a curves?
06:21<Phreeze>everything
06:21<Flygon>All of the above. Gotcha.
06:22<Phreeze>our main stations has 6 rails..
06:22<Flygon>...6 rails or six lines?
06:22<Phreeze>https://maps.google.lu/maps?ie=UTF-8&q=luxembourg+railway+station&fb=1&gl=lu&hq=luxembourg+railway+station&cid=10599661851156971264&ei=20AcU4WPGtOWhQe3toCwCw&ved=0CKABEPwS
06:22<Phreeze>rails ^^
06:23<Phreeze>you can see the passenger station, and the depots to the right
06:23<Flygon>Oh my goodness, just 6 through platforms O_O
06:23<Phreeze>to the left are some busstatons
06:23<Flygon>Here, we have... some very very long platforms
06:23<Phreeze>yeah, taht's enough. as you can see, only 2 trains in it.
06:23<Phreeze>our whole country has only 520000 habitants^^
06:23<Flygon>Which means that while there's some very very long platforms, we actually treat them as seperate platforms by having switches at the platforms
06:24<Flygon>Or: 17A and 17B platforms are on the same platform 17, but operate as otherwise phsycially seperate platforms
06:24<Phreeze>a bit more to the south is a depot with that...err whatever it's called
06:24<Phreeze>a turntable
06:24<Phreeze>:)
06:25<Phreeze>at that turntable, afailk there are small depots for old locos too
06:25<Phreeze>other trains are stored outside during the night
06:26<Flygon>Turntables are rarer here than they should be...
06:26<Flygon>So we use balloon loops and triangles to turn locos around
06:26<Phreeze>have to go now, fix the sat of my dad's....
06:26<Flygon>Half the reason DMUs and EMUs have become so very popular here
06:26<Flygon>Have fun!
06:26<Phreeze>haha, no space for loops here as you see ^^
06:26<Phreeze>have a nice day
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06:31<Flygon>On a sidenote, a lot of the very popular locomotives themselves here are actually dual cabbed: No need to turntable, triangle. or balloon loop them
06:32<Flygon>Just that lots of interstate and older locos need them
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06:38<Hower>Hi, i want to apply this patch http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2155 to my Debian Openttd server, do i have to download the source files, apply it to the source files and compile Openttd myself? Or is it some other way to apply a patch to an already installed game?
06:40<Wolf01>the first one
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06:46<Hower>ok, thank you. Was hoping for some information i had missed in how to patch this, but i guess i just have to jump into it.
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07:30<Flygon>Anyone ever have those games where they're seriously pushing the sensibilities of reasonable station sizes?
07:31<@planetmaker>sure :D
07:32<@planetmaker>http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/File:PSG192.png might be big ;)
07:32<@Alberth>yeah, anything longer than 6 looks weird :)
07:33<@Alberth>that's not a station, it's a city :p
07:33<Flygon>planetmaker: And I thought some of my monstrosities were bad...
07:33<Flygon>Yours is outright borglike @_@
07:33<@planetmaker>I was actually looking for the game where 64^2 was too small to act as wood drop. We needed to create three stations to handle all wood
07:34<Flygon>...
07:34<Flygon>O_o
07:34<@planetmaker>http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/images/e/ed/PSG176.png
07:35<Kjetil>ehm.. what
07:36<Flygon>Good job xD
07:36<Flygon>My savegames would make pidgeons cry with their inefficiencies D:
07:37<@planetmaker>but as you can see, it needs the station size. It's busy :)
07:38<Flygon>I've never been great at making giant dropoff stations x3
07:38<@planetmaker>obviously that hasn't been a single person at work :)
07:38<Flygon>Touche
07:41<Flygon>Map I'm on has just ONE oil refinery
07:41<Flygon>Because it's an island map... no land at the edges
07:41<Flygon>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2651992/Art/Other/iceland2002oilrefinery.png
07:42<Flygon>Sadly, even 24 tile long oil freight trains actually lack enough capacity
07:42<Flygon>And even worse... actual bloody congestion at the dropoff ;_;
07:43<Zuu>If you try with shorter trains, you'll gain flexibility. Eg. it makes it easier to create intersections.
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07:43<Flygon>Zuu: Yeah, I figured that out after more than a few years
07:44<Flygon>But, it's a tad late now anyway. And the goal was sort of achieved
07:44<Flygon>A cost effective way of transporting oil across distances of over 1200 tiles
07:44<Flygon>This can make gauging profit difficult though for the longer distance trains
07:45<Flygon>Some years, they make up to 2 million euros
07:45<Flygon>Some years, the same train'll lose 500k
07:46<Flygon>This's become a bit less of a problem as I've gotten faster locos tho
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07:47<Flygon>I do like how the biggest city in the game is Hella
07:47<Flygon>It's Hella big!
07:47<Flygon>Though, Reykjavik has the largest metropolis (inc. suburbs)
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08:09<LordAro>how did i miss this? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=70130
08:11<Flygon>Oh my O_O
08:12<Flygon>Good thing I didn't find out earlier
08:12<Flygon>My post would have been "A furry thought I like trains and told me to play this game and then I played it."
08:12<Flygon>Furries REALLY like trains
08:13<LordAro>O.o
08:16<@Alberth>It has an sufficiently innocent title :)
08:16<LordAro>quite
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08:19<@Alberth>quak
08:19<frosch123>moin
08:19<LordAro>quak
08:19<Pikka>oui
08:25<V453000>hy
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08:41<LordAro>there, i posted it http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1113893#p1113893 hope it makes you all cry :p
08:44<frosch123>whoa, you are linking to trac? quite brave
08:45<LordAro>oh, it's still breaking for unknown reasons, isn't it?
08:46<frosch123>i has been doing so for 5 years at least
08:46<frosch123>i don't know about the time before
08:46<LordAro>huh
08:46<LordAro>no one's thought to fix it in that time? :L
08:47<@Alberth>probably some have, to succeed is however another matter ;)
08:47<frosch123>i have spent reasonable thoughts on fixing fs#3764
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09:04<Eddi|zuHause><Flygon> I wish it was. It wouldn't put coal mines adjacent to passenger-only stations :B <-- in germany, they put a station where there was a mine 150 years earlier, and later, when they "discovered" the tunnel underneath was unstable, the trains hat to enter the station at like 5km/h
09:06<Flygon>Well, that's genius :|
09:07<Eddi|zuHause>the station already existed like 100 years at that point
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09:14<andythenorth>is it Pikka?
09:18<Pikka>where?
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09:18<andythenorth>must be
09:19<andythenorth>Pikka: how fast should trucks go?
09:19<Pikka>dunno, 30-60 mph?
09:20<andythenorth>after about 1950 or so, most of mine are doing 65mph
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09:20<Pikka>that's quite fast?
09:20<andythenorth>kinda
09:21<Pikka>my 1967 one does 45
09:21<andythenorth>but then all the trains do 100mph
09:21<andythenorth>hrm
09:21<andythenorth>but you don't use trucks for long distance
09:21<Pikka>I dunno
09:21<andythenorth>horses, courses etc
09:21<Pikka>"realism"
09:21<andythenorth>yeah, it's a poor guide
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09:21<Pikka>as long as the set is moderately internally consistant it's all good
09:22<andythenorth>he
09:22<andythenorth>consistent is easy :)
09:22<andythenorth>every generation gets 50hp more, 5t more anf 5mph more
09:22<andythenorth>borings
09:23<Pikka>eh, borings
09:23<Pikka>if you're trying to make your vehicle stats "interesting" you're in for a tough time imo
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09:23<andythenorth>mostly it's this silly intermodal truck
09:24<andythenorth>everything else is fine, but I'm trying to give it an advantage for express cargo
09:24<andythenorth>'faster' seems like an advantage to me :P
09:24<Eddi|zuHause>how about something like: '20s: 40km/h, '40s: 60km/h, '50s: 80km/h, '90s: 90km/h, 2000s: 100km/h, 2030s: 120km/h?
09:24*andythenorth ignores realistic speed limits
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09:34<Eddi|zuHause>you could smoothen out the above a bit, so you get a speed increase about every 20 years
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09:40<andythenorth>I have a couple fewer trucks than that, upgrading every 25 years or so
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09:44<andythenorth>I have 4 trucks, maybe 5 if I add some futuristic thing
09:45<andythenorth>* 4 generations
09:45<Pinkbeast>I'm not sure vehicles have to be that "interesting"; I get a faster/bigger one, I upgrade my vehicles, I feel happy.
09:46<andythenorth>or....you don't really need to upgrade because the vehicles you have are good enough...?
09:47<Pinkbeast>I rarely have that problem especially with FIRS industries getting supplies :-/
09:47<Pinkbeast>And even then, fewer vehicles on the roads or rails is always a good thing
09:47<andythenorth>I think that's partly because most sets cripple earlier vehicles
09:48<andythenorth>to allow progression
09:49<andythenorth>that's kinda boring
09:54<Pikka>yebbut
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10:01<andythenorth>?
10:02<Pikka>I don't know. slow/underpowered vehicles early on can be a challenge for them as likes that sort of thing
10:02<Pikka>and if you don't, you can just start later.
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10:07<andythenorth>meh :D
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10:08<Pikka>well quite
10:08<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you might design it around that "normal" people start in 1950, "masochistic" people start in 1900, and "unrealistic" people start in 2030
10:09<andythenorth>kind of yes
10:09<andythenorth>masochistic is 1870
10:09<Eddi|zuHause>whatever :)
10:09<Eddi|zuHause>horses :)
10:09<andythenorth>that
10:09<andythenorth>and 20mph top speed
10:09<andythenorth>and low HP
10:10<Eddi|zuHause>i always wanted a "generic horse set" that would provide vehicles that can be combined with any "late" road vehicle set
10:10<andythenorth>normal people start in 1900 and play for 100 years
10:10<Eddi|zuHause>so horses would be 1700-1900 or so
10:11<Eddi|zuHause>no trucks, busses, etc.
10:11<andythenorth>you get some trams in 1870
10:11<andythenorth>proper trams
10:11<andythenorth>but not fast
10:11<V453000>1920 start feels like standard :)
10:12<andythenorth>+1
10:12<andythenorth>dunno why
10:12<Eddi|zuHause>ttdpatch thingie
10:12<V453000>simple, many newGRFs start at that date
10:13<Eddi|zuHause>TTO started 1930, TTD 1950, TTDPatch changed that to the earliest technically possible 1920
10:13<V453000>:)
10:13<V453000>it works well though
10:13<Eddi|zuHause>then OpenTTD came along and introduced 0-based date
10:14<Pikka>1-1-1921 is actually the TTD epoch date, I believe
10:19<Flygon>Wait
10:20<Flygon>So we can't play before Chirst's birth? D:
10:20<Flygon>B-but
10:20<Flygon>I WANTED AN ACCURATE ROMAN EMPIRE SHIP SET!!!
10:20<andythenorth>there should be a date ratio hack :P
10:21<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: it's even worse, "real" date doesn't have a year 0.
10:21<Flygon>Meaning?
10:21<Eddi|zuHause>it went from -1 to 1
10:21<V453000>map seed includes industry placement now?
10:21<Flygon>...
10:21<Flygon>So
10:21<V453000>aka map with same seed will also generate same industries?
10:21<Flygon>It's possible to have a date of -1?
10:22<Eddi|zuHause>so OpenTTD has an imaginary year 0 that never existed
10:22<Flygon>I'm confused
10:22<Flygon>Is it possible to set a BC based year, by having it be a negative value?
10:22<Eddi|zuHause>no
10:22<Pikka>Eddi|zuHause, well, strictly speaking, our calendar *goes* from 1BC to AD1
10:22<Flygon>Fudge
10:22<Pikka>it didn't *go*, since in AD1 they weren't using our calendar ;)
10:22<Flygon>Damn. Blast and damn.
10:23<Flygon>There'll be no 'dawn of man' set D:
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: i think the technical term is "backdated gregorian calendar"
10:23<Flygon>Though, it would also need a 'logarithmic' adjustment of the year length...
10:23<Flygon>eg. early years zip by fast
10:23<Flygon>Like Civilization II!
10:23<Eddi|zuHause>also, christ wasn't born in 1AD
10:23<Flygon>1AD's close enough
10:24<Pikka>close enough for government work
10:24<Flygon>It's easier to remember as Before Christ and After Death :P
10:24<Eddi|zuHause>the monk who did the calculation in the 4th(?) century miscalculated by around 7 years
10:24-!-LSky [~LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd
10:24<Eddi|zuHause>so christ was actually born 7 years before christ
10:25<Flygon>No surprises
10:26<Eddi|zuHause>christ did not DIE in 1AD either. he was a grown-up when he started spreading his theories :)
10:26<Pikka>AD1
10:26<Flygon>Nah, clearly our lord and saviour is part of a race of shapeshifters!
10:26<Pikka>not 1AD :P
10:27<Flygon>Who can age at will!
10:27-!-Phr [~Phrossi@189.110.231.78] has joined #openttd
10:27<Eddi|zuHause>"fun fact": christ was not born as a young adult, as he is always depicted in churches :p
10:29<Pikka>we should use AUC really
10:29<Pikka>then we can be living in the 28th century
10:30<Phr>what is in here?
10:30<Pikka>a piece of string and a conker, Phr
10:30<@Alberth>random people, talking
10:30<@Alberth>sometimes, even about the OpenTTD program :)
10:30<Pikka>they're not that random, Alberth
10:31<Phr>then i am staying in
10:31<Pikka>most of them are quite predictable
10:31<Flygon>I do wonder if AD and BC difference will ever become a serious patch :B
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10:31<Pikka>only if we can have AUC too
10:31<Phr>i DARE that instead
10:31<@Alberth>Pikka: you expected Pereba ?
10:31<Pikka>and jewish years
10:31<Flygon>I honestly do think having enough sets to allow progression from the dawn of man to the post-modern world would be neat
10:31<Pikka>and japanese years
10:31<@Alberth>or Phr, for that matter? :)
10:31<Flygon>Assuming the whole "Early years are faster" trope
10:32<Phr>i doubt something like that can happen in games, but in real life it DID.
10:32<Phr>better go play civ 5
10:33<Flygon>I'm not sure what that meant specifically
10:33<Flygon>I'm an idiot, not an idiot savant
10:35<Phr>BREAKING news! the news is breaking! just kidding, a Boeing 777-200ER went missing in the gulf of thailand. Vietnam teams found traces of possibly jet fuel.
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10:38<Phr>nothing?
10:38<Pikka>doesn't look like it
10:39<Phr>oh
10:41<Eddi|zuHause> <Flygon> I do wonder if AD and BC difference will ever become a serious patch :B <-- patch would be rather easy, just change the max date from 5000000 to 2500000, change the default start date, and change the date display string (plus some old savegame conversion). about 40LOC, so can be done in 1 evening :)
10:42<Eddi|zuHause>Phr: if by "breaking" you mean "yesterday"?
10:42<Phr>nah
10:42<Phr>was 7 march
10:42<Phr>still missing
10:42<Eddi|zuHause>well, timezone stuff
10:42<Flygon>Why not simply have it so that a date over a certain date
10:42<Phr>239 ppl in the plane
10:42<Flygon>Is the BC date
10:43<Flygon>And when the year rolls over the maximum value
10:43<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: because that would be stupid
10:43<Flygon>It goes to 0
10:43<Flygon>Basiclaly
10:43<Flygon>Basically*
10:43<Flygon>Turn it into a signed value
10:43<andythenorth>whe need trolleybuses
10:43<andythenorth>-h
10:43<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: the date does not overflow
10:43<Eddi|zuHause>i need a car
10:43<@Alberth>andythenorth: not sure andy has a help option :)
10:44<andythenorth>:P
10:44<Phr>the passaport of 2 passengers was stolen in tailand in 2012 and 2013 and was used, so point to terrorism
10:44<Flygon>Eddi: Then we need to have it so that the date can't go over a certain value
10:44<Flygon>Unless the game starts at that value
10:44<Flygon>In which case, it continues going up values
10:44<Flygon>Until it hits a certain value and defaults to 0
10:44<Phr>*thailand
10:44<andythenorth>Phr: this isn't alt.discussion.news.that.is.on.every.headline.already
10:44<Flygon>Thus ensuring savegame compatibility
10:44<andythenorth>(sorry)
10:45<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: that still means existing savegames suddenly end up in negative years, so you need savegame conversion anyway. might as well make it proper instead of hacky
10:45<Phr>doing nothing now
10:46<Flygon>It just occoured to me that savegame conversion happens automatically with OpenTTD anyway
10:46<Flygon>Yeah. Flygon is stupid.
10:46<Flygon>Sorry, way too used to dealing with other sorts of applications where hacky compatibility is often necessary
10:46<Phr>epic fail i guess?
10:46<juzza1>had to wiki some transport history, instantly found a great idea for an articulated RV: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bullock_team.jpg
10:47<andythenorth>http://news.volvogroup.com/2013/05/23/the-road-of-tomorrow-is-electric/
10:47<Flygon>juzza1: Welcome to Australia
10:47<Flygon>We max the horsepower out of EVERYTHING :D
10:47<Phr>seems legit.
10:48<andythenorth>juzza1: was going to put this in HEQS http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/53396727.jpg
10:48<andythenorth>never bothered
10:48<Eddi|zuHause>juzza1: it's an "EMU" :p
10:49<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, gtg
10:49<Flygon>Clearly for the BC era HEQS
10:49<Phr>these are some intresting pictures there
10:50<juzza1>Elephant RVs, now that would be something original
10:50<andythenorth>Alberth: the 4 year old is talking in my ear about a roller coaster game
10:50<andythenorth>he wants me to make one
10:51<Eddi|zuHause>install OpenRCT and say "i made this"?
10:51<Eddi|zuHause>he won't figure it out until another 4 years :p
10:51<Phr>another fail
10:52<@Alberth>andythenorth: good, we need more devs :D
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10:57<andythenorth>bbl
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11:02<Xaroth|Work>that was a quick 'later' :o
11:02<andythenorth>child still moaning about a roller coaster game
11:03<andythenorth>I had to reopen the laptop
11:03<andythenorth>there are no roller coaster games afaict
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11:04<andythenorth>no can't find any that don't cost £
11:04<andythenorth>bye
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11:42<NGC3982>http://i.imgur.com/6Ij3OtG.png
11:42<NGC3982>I don't get how to fix this.
11:43<NGC3982>When track 1 is "full" (there are no available exit signals), i want to force trains to instead take track 2.
11:43<NGC3982>Track 2 runs back as a loop, returning the trains to the entry signal position
11:44<NGC3982>I solved it myself!
11:48<frosch123>put a combo signal in the middle
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12:09<LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: OpenRCT? what is this? :p
12:21<frosch123>it's similar to LibreRCT
12:22<Zuu>OpenRCT a search term that currently (for me) gives FreeRCT (the C++ version) as the first hit on google :-p
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12:25<frosch123>Zuu: psst, you should look at the list of devs for openrct
12:27<Zuu>I don't see anything special (looking at this page https://openrct.codeplex.com/team/view)
12:28<frosch123>ah, now i also got confused :p http://www.freerct.org/
12:28<Zuu>Ah, well the developer list of FreeRCT I know of :-)
12:28<frosch123>hmm, oh, you are invovles as well
12:31<Zuu>Yep, I added land ownership. I also got a patch for fences which need some further work whenever I got time to continue with it. http://junctioneer.net/freerct/fence/fence.png
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12:40<andythenorth>is it done yet?
12:40<Pikka>for given values of "it" and "done", and possibly "is" and "yet", yes.
12:41<Pikka>for given values of "yes".
12:43<andythenorth>so what other shenanigans should I add?
12:43<andythenorth>car transporter?
12:43<andythenorth>cement mixer?
12:43<andythenorth>bin truck?
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12:44<frosch123>bucket chain
12:45<andythenorth>http://www.womp-int.com/images/story/2012vol04/11a.jpg
12:45<andythenorth>heavy haul?
12:45<andythenorth>frosch123: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=450869&nseq=1 http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=440395&nseq=6
12:46<Zuu>Not a load I would like to drive on a slippery road with sideway tilting :-)
12:47<Hazzard>Whoa
12:48<frosch123>andythenorth: moving industries?
12:48<andythenorth>you code it, I'll...
12:48<andythenorth>...watch ;)
12:48<frosch123>bulldozing all houses and infrastructure which lies in their way?
12:48<andythenorth>FIRS sand pit?
12:49<frosch123>would a shovel-excavator-disaster meets people's expectations in more realistic disasters?
12:49<andythenorth>maybe
12:51<Pikka>towns should just disappear from the map completely and without explanation
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12:51<Pikka>that would be a good disaster
12:51<andythenorth>:)
12:51<andythenorth>pretty disastrous
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12:52<andythenorth>shall I delete these river boats?
12:52<Pikka>"Accworth Falls has been sucked into the void and never was. Accworth Falls? Never heard of it."
12:52<Pikka>probably
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13:07<andythenorth>schnowploughs ?
13:07<Supercheese>Oh bollocks, I forgot it was daylight savings time today
13:07<Supercheese>now I've missed church :(
13:08<Supercheese>why do we do these clock shenanigans
13:08<andythenorth>vote now for deletion of river boats in Squid
13:09<andythenorth>+1 or -1
13:09<Supercheese>"river boats" being...?
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13:09<andythenorth>4 or so freight barges for inland rivers
13:09<andythenorth>totally pointless on most map
13:10<andythenorth>maps *
13:10<Supercheese>I've definitely found them useful in some game
13:10<Supercheese>games
13:18<Phr>still in
13:19<Supercheese>ugh, hg is making no sense
13:21<Supercheese>I surrender
13:23<NGC3982>http://i.imgur.com/ttU5Lnu.png
13:24<NGC3982>I'm on this again. I do not know why it does not work now, since it worked before. I'm doing something wrong again, and i fail to understand why. I want trains to be forced to continue on track #2 when #1 is "full".
13:24<NGC3982>First is the entry signal, then a combo, and lastly an exit signal on both
13:24<frosch123>i think it's an issue with your pathfinder settings
13:25<frosch123>have you set the coop setting?
13:25<NGC3982>No thought has been given to settings at all.
13:25<NGC3982>Let me see.
13:27<frosch123>http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Two-way_end_of_line
13:28<frosch123>so the signal in the middle also needs to be a twoway signal
13:32<NGC3982>My lady just entered the room with a giant burp.
13:32<NGC3982>frosch123: I'll read into it. Thank you.
13:37<NGC3982>frosch123: It actually worked itself out by simply elongating it.
13:38<NGC3982>http://i.imgur.com/dG8y2Kn.png
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14:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26395 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2014-03-09 18:45:19 UTC)
14:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
14:45<@DorpsGek>english_US - 9 changes by Supercheese
14:45<@DorpsGek>hebrew - 3 changes by oofnik
14:45<@DorpsGek>italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv
15:04<Phr>uh?
15:04<Supercheese>?
15:05<Phr>that must be the new nightly release for today
15:05<Phr>not too many changes there
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15:05<@planetmaker>translation changes
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15:05<@planetmaker>for 24 hours that's acceptable
15:06<Supercheese>Hmm, haven't yet done the Fizzy Drinks -> Soft Drinks
15:06<Supercheese>I should make those changes...
15:06<Supercheese>seems like there were no objections
15:06<Phr>fail?
15:09-!-triad [~triad@5-13-103-169.residential.rdsnet.ro] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
15:09<Hazzard>NGC3982: Your station is too short
15:10<Hazzard>The PF doesn't like short stations
15:11<Phr>hey hey hey hey hey!
15:11<Phr>it was posted 2 hours ago
15:11<Hazzard>:)
15:12<Phr>he might not reply now
15:12<Hazzard>But he's still here
15:12<Hazzard>You never know
15:12<Phr>yep just looked at the user list
15:18<Phr>http://www.engrish.com/2008/08/if-the-flames-dont-get-ya-the-explosions-will/ common mistake on translation
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15:35<Supercheese>This Phr user seems suspicious...
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15:36<@planetmaker>quite indeed. Especially when reading some backlog
15:37<Supercheese>I'm getting bot vibes
15:37<Supercheese>quick, someone administer a turing test
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15:37<Supercheese>heh
15:38<Supercheese>I said the "T"-word
15:38<Supercheese>seems to be bot-repellent :P
15:39<@planetmaker>bot-repellent. Can I buy that?
15:39<Xaroth|Work>is that the same as bitch'b'gone spray?
15:39<@planetmaker>not the same. Different ingredients
15:39<Supercheese>Bot-B-Gone, now with extra Captcha!
15:40<@planetmaker>Supercheese, and indeed I was just thinking of a clever question acting as turing test ;)
15:40<Hazzard>More like craptcha amirgith?!?
15:41<Supercheese>sadly, the bot bailed before you could ask it
15:41<Supercheese>could always ask dorpsgek, see if an admin is on to chat-by-proxy :P
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15:42<@planetmaker>well. Thus dorpsgek can act quite human ;)
15:42<@planetmaker>@whoami
15:42<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: planetmaker
15:43<@DorpsGek>And I know supercheese, too :P
15:43<Supercheese>See, there we go
15:43<@planetmaker>:)
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15:45<andythenorth>nice timber truck http://www.flickr.com/photos/truckscenescotland/7062188597/
15:45<Supercheese>It's a Man truck, but the logo is a dog...
15:46<Supercheese>more like Man's Best Friend
15:47<andythenorth>interesting mode of transport http://www.flickr.com/photos/truckscenescotland/7726940542/
15:47<andythenorth>oops. wrong set http://www.flickr.com/photos/truckscenescotland/7727354040/
15:49<@Alberth>they're both truck scenes :p
15:49<andythenorth>one is definitely mostly boat
15:50<@Alberth>yep :)
15:50<Supercheese>By pixels, surely not
15:50<Supercheese>boat must be less than 10%
15:50<Supercheese>whereas grass/trees are surely at least 40%
15:50<Supercheese>but eh, semantics
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16:44<andythenorth>ho
16:44<andythenorth>I need a grfid
16:44<andythenorth>someone send me one? o_O
16:46<rubidium>CAFECAFE
16:46<rubidium>C0FFEE11
16:46<andythenorth>BEEPBEEP?
16:46<@planetmaker>what type of project?
16:46<andythenorth>RVs
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>those are not HEX numerals
16:46<andythenorth>orly :P
16:46<andythenorth>BEE9BEE9
16:47<Eddi|zuHause>wouldn't 2 be better?
16:47<andythenorth>maybe
16:47<@Alberth>BEEB :p
16:47<andythenorth>done
16:47<rubidium>B1EB....
16:48<frosch123>BANDIT <- leave out everything that is not hex, and you already have 3 digits
16:48*andythenorth wonders what the IH joke is
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>'\BA' 'N' '\D1' 'T'?
16:49<andythenorth>grfid = r"CA\12\1E"
16:49<andythenorth>I left a comment that it is a joke
16:49<andythenorth>but I cba to work out what :P
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the joke is it begins with CA
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>which is a "forbidden" ID :)
16:50<@planetmaker>nah, better \97\87\EA\XX or so
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure there is a log about this, anyway
16:51<andythenorth>I bet
16:52<andythenorth>hmm it will be a joke about iron or something
16:52<andythenorth>not a good joke
16:59<andythenorth>10/8 road vehicles anyone? o_O
16:59<andythenorth>maybe I can remove the 10/8 articulated stuff for this set
17:01<@planetmaker>not bandit but another?
17:10<andythenorth>another
17:11<andythenorth>bandit wen to jail :P
17:14<frosch123>"jail" would also have been a grfid :p
17:17<andythenorth>ha
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17:20<andythenorth>hmmm....tipper trucks are pointless if the set has mining trucks
17:20<andythenorth>except higher speed...
17:20<andythenorth>but lower capacity
17:20<andythenorth>boring choices
17:21*andythenorth removes those
17:24<andythenorth>also bye
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17:25<Eddi|zuHause>too much on-topic today: https://twitter.com/Thoreau_H_D/status/442725831165476864/photo/1 <-- maybe we should interpret this advertisment
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17:36<Eddi|zuHause><NGC3982> http://i.imgur.com/ttU5Lnu.png <-- if you don't use the 2-way-eol setting, you must make sure that the "long" track has a) more signals than the lookahead (default 10) and b) the full-platform-penalty plus the firstred-exit-penalty is higher than the length of the roundtrip
17:37<V453000>[better enable eol]
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>eol, i'm already in? that was easy :p
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>(vaguely mimicing an AOL advertisment from many years ago)
17:39<Eddi|zuHause>"former german chancellor and gasprom employee Gerhard Schröder says the EU is at fault for escalating the ukraine situation"
17:44<frosch123>have you read the whole article?
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>who needs to read articles when the headlines are totally misrepresenting the content :p
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>the purpose of news is not to educate yourself, but to further strengthen your own view of the world :p
17:46<Eddi|zuHause>that's why FOX NEWS is so popular
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18:40<Wolf01>'night all
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18:45<frosch123>night
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19:13<Eddi|zuHause>"Your Googlegänger is the person that shows up as first result when you google your name"
19:13<Taede>what if that is yourself?
19:15<Eddi|zuHause>then the world explodes
19:16*Taede looks around
19:16<Taede>nope, seems fine
19:16<Taede>picture is a lil dated, but otherwise fine
19:17<Eddi|zuHause>i actually have a "billboardgänger". there's a regional politician with my name, who was really present for a while during some elections. so when i went to the bank the teller asked "are you the guy from the billboards?"
19:18<Taede>heh
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19:47<Eddi|zuHause>"Barbie and Ken are actually siblings"
19:49<Hazzard>D:
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19:51<Eddi|zuHause>(they're named after the kids of the creator)
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21:06<Flygon__>To whoever maintains the Swedish Houses set
21:06<Flygon__>The Flats (under construction) artwork's a tad bugged
21:07-!-Flygon__ is now known as Flygon
21:08<Flygon>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2651992/Art/Other/iceland2010buggeredswedishhouse1.png https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2651992/Art/Other/iceland2010buggeredswedishhouse2.png
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---Logclosed Mon Mar 10 00:00:46 2014