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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-03-13

---Logopened Thu Mar 13 00:00:00 2014
---Logopened Thu Mar 13 00:57:14 2014
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00:57-!-Irssi: #openttd: Total of 110 nicks [5 ops, 0 halfops, 2 voices, 103 normal]
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---Logclosed Thu Mar 13 01:04:39 2014
---Logopened Thu Mar 13 01:05:33 2014
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01:53<lucky_>hi everyone. I'm trying to set a font on OpenTTD on OS X and it seems to be ignoring the values I put in and I'm pretty sure they're valid
01:54<lucky_>fonts: Tahoma / Tahoma, bold / Times / Courier New, sizes: 18, 21, 26, 18
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03:22-!-Xaroth|Work is "XarothAtWork" on #openttd @+#openDune
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03:59<LordAro>lucky_: settings like that will only be reloaded when OTTD starts - you're not trying to modify the settings while OTTD is running?
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06:26<peter1139>So I though... I know, I'll play some Jethro Tull. So I searched on YouTube and found a full album to play.
06:26<peter1139>Then I noticed the uploaded has a TTD icon and has the named TTDLX...
06:27<peter1139>Where's the coffee?
06:28<NGC3982> Morning.
06:28<NGC3982>Oh, yes. Coffee.
06:28<NGC3982>Good idea.
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07:27<peter1139>hmm, dhcp-specified routing is dumb
07:28<NGC3982>What can one use it for?
07:28<peter1139>static routing
07:28<NGC3982>It has been many years since i had to do anything with dhcp
07:29<NGC3982>Having a reliable router kind of defeats the point of changing anything.
07:29<peter1139>I run it on my Pi, because ADSL routers are invariably crap at it.
07:29<NGC3982>Ah, i see.
07:29*NGC3982 has used his e3000 for two years, and loves it dearly.
07:30<peter1139>Ideally I'd just have an ADSL modem/WiFi router that just runs Linux instead of some bastardised locked down GPL-violating version...
07:32<NGC3982>I see.
07:32<NGC3982>I use ddwrt.
07:33<peter1139>ddwrt does not generally do ADSL.
07:34<NGC3982>Oh, alright.
07:34<NGC3982>My only experience with it is in routers, like the WRT54GL, or the e3000 i have now.
07:34<peter1139>I think you have a surplus comma there.
07:35<peter1139>With the first comma, you imply that my ADSL modem/WiFi router is not a router.
07:36<peter1139>Language, eh?
07:36<NGC3982>I have an issue with commas both in Swedish and English.
07:36<NGC3982>For some reason, it feels like i need to separate it.
07:36<NGC3982>For some reason it feels like i need to separate it?
07:36<V453000>my ass is grass
07:37<peter1139>By separating the phrase "My only experience with it is in routers" you are stating that I was talking about not-routers.
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07:39<peter1139>And... my router is not listed on :(
07:39<peter1139>Not even as no or not possible.
07:43<peter1139>My current router doesn't even do SNMP so I can't monitor bandwidth :(
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08:05<NGC3982>When using a combo signal to let a train continue on a main line instead of trying to enter a full station
08:06<NGC3982>Does the main line need to have a full functioning route back to the initial combo signal to work?
08:06<V453000>signal logic needs to be transmitted over tracks
08:06<NGC3982>I see. That figures, since:
08:07*NGC3982 tries something more productive.
08:07<NGC3982>When just learning how to use entry-combo-exit signals, one feels the need to use them everywhere. :-)
08:11<V453000>you just built an eternal red :D
08:11<V453000>this will never turn green on itself
08:11<V453000>one of them has to be 1way to solve that
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08:14<NGC3982>I noticed. :P
08:21<peter1139>Yay for path signals, alas poor yorick.
08:22*yorick resets the counter
08:28<peter1139>The @seen counter?
08:32<Eddi|zuHause>why do we have a TrueSatan and why is that not an alias of TrueBrain? :p
08:33<Xaroth|Work>isn't that implied?
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08:37<NGC3982>Ok :(
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13:17<Knogle>"You may not change nickname while banned or moderated on a channel" are annoying :P
13:19<Eddi|zuHause>don't get banned or moderated then :)
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13:23<frosch123>hmm... "andedrunkard" looks very similar to "andythenorth"
13:23<andythenorth>only in your mind :P
13:23<andythenorth>@seen pikk
13:23<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: I have not seen pikk.
13:23<andythenorth>@seen pikka
13:23<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 21 hours, 37 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <Pikka> not usually, for cargo, no
13:23<andythenorth>where is my GS :P
13:24<frosch123>-1.26% today
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13:56<lucky_>hi everyone. I'm trying to set a font on OpenTTD on OS X and it seems to be ignoring the values I put in and I'm pretty sure they're valid
13:57<lucky_>fonts: Tahoma / Tahoma, bold / Times / Courier New, sizes: 18, 21, 26, 18
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14:00<@planetmaker>lucky_, first thing, close OpenTTD
14:02<@planetmaker>and then you need to give the filename which provides the font, not the fontname itself
14:02<@planetmaker>it might co-incide, but not sure
14:03<@planetmaker> @ lucky_
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14:18<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: both font name and filename should work
14:23<lucky_>It's sort of working, some parts of my UI are changed, but things like the budget and other text remain the default font which is far too small for me ;(
14:27<lucky_>ah got it :) tahnks
14:29<@planetmaker>\o Alberth :)
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14:30<andythenorth>lucky_: put your screen in lower res ;)
14:30<@Alberth>hello :)
14:30*andythenorth has low-tech solutions :P
14:31<@planetmaker>I quite agree that the minimap legend is for me also not at but over the brink of being readable :)
14:31<andythenorth>use a magnifying glass? o_O
14:31<@planetmaker>maybe it should somehow read the dpi of the display and choose accordingly
14:31<andythenorth>or a monocle?
14:32<@planetmaker>I simply chose a bigger small font in my cfg :P
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14:34<@planetmaker>I've the feeling that in the long run we need some more automatism there. Or at least a visible UI
14:36<Eddi|zuHause>just yesterday someone said "we don't need a font gui"
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14:39<andythenorth>I for one intend to keep peering at the screen
14:39<@Alberth>just make all sprites in SVG :)
14:40<@planetmaker>not me, Eddi|zuHause :)
14:40<@planetmaker>(and I disagree)
14:40<@planetmaker>though 'need' is a strong word, but nice-to-have, certainly
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14:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26400 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2014-03-13 18:45:28 UTC)
14:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
14:45<@DorpsGek>simplified_chinese - 5 changes by siu238X
14:45<@DorpsGek>traditional_chinese - 6 changes by siu238X
14:45<@DorpsGek>polish - 30 changes by McZapkie
14:47<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: the postulate was "people set this up once and then never touch again", which is a very weak argument
14:47<@planetmaker>Yes, I was present when that was said :)
14:48<@planetmaker>And I agree, it's not a strong argument :)
14:57<frosch123>but a realistic one :p
15:10<@planetmaker>I don't say it's an argument nor an invalid one. But not strong :) And it can also cut the other way. As was just demonstrated 30 minutes ago :)
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15:46<Phreeze>got a ts server, about 10 people on, i know noone of them xD
15:47<Phreeze>"freinds of friends of friends that know some guys' friends"
15:48<Eddi|zuHause>and you tell this to a channel where you don't know anybody?
15:49<Kjetil_>maybe it's contagious!
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15:52<Wolf01>hi hi
15:54<andythenorth>what shall we make?
15:55<Phreeze>steam down...
15:56<Phreeze>tells me to play openttd then..
15:56<Wolf01>ah, ok, then it's not only for me
15:56<Eddi|zuHause>"make kids"? i think andythenorth can barely cope with the ones he has :)
15:57<andythenorth>I have quite enough of them
15:58<Phreeze>more than 3 ?
15:59<Phreeze>(it sounds that you have "more than usual")
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>"usual" is something like 1.2 or so
16:01<andythenorth>2 is enough
16:02*andythenorth starts rewriting code
16:02<andythenorth>if I don't do it this way, I'll never know what I would have regretted
16:03*andythenorth just had a horrible though
16:03<andythenorth>thought *
16:03<@planetmaker>just one? :)
16:04<andythenorth>just the one in the last few minutes
16:04<andythenorth>my RVs are curently made up of three parts
16:04<andythenorth>because they're copied from IH, and that's the way IH does it
16:04<andythenorth>one of the side effects is that some IH 'vehicles' carry more than one cargo at once
16:04<andythenorth>should RVs have multiple cargos?
16:05<andythenorth>someone say no :P
16:05<Taede>yes please
16:05<Eddi|zuHause>unless you're thinking passengers/tourists, probably not.
16:06<andythenorth>buses with pax + mail? :P
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>"Postkutsche" -> passengers/mail
16:06<andythenorth>I dunno if they'd be routable to stations?
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>but that probably died out somewhere in the 1920s
16:06<@planetmaker>even then I'm not convinced, Eddi|zuHause. You'll then need always combined stations
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i don't think that ever works properly
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: it sounds like a really bad idea in every way imaginable
16:07<frosch123>just make V draw a road railtype :p
16:07<frosch123>then yuo can assemble mixed cargo rv
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: and you lose the only advantage of roadvehicles: use them in town
16:08<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I am -1 to it as well
16:08<andythenorth>decision made
16:09<frosch123>hmm, yeah
16:09<frosch123>better make a city canal roadtype, and let gondolas run on it
16:09<@planetmaker>damn, frosch123 !
16:10<andythenorth>now it has to be done
16:10<@planetmaker>that would look frigging awesome
16:10<andythenorth>it would have to have a way to transfer to bigger ships without looking stupid
16:10<andythenorth>there is a third roadtype slot, or is that broken / a myth?
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>that was removed
16:11<@planetmaker>yeah, it existed but is gone for a few years now
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: is a canal a road-like or a tram-like roadtype?
16:12<andythenorth>tram like
16:12<andythenorth>actually, drive in stops would be handy for canal boats :P
16:12<frosch123>andythenorth: people noticed that three roadtypes make no sense on a single tile at once
16:12<andythenorth>frosch123: those pesky people
16:12<Eddi|zuHause>tram-like means if you combine it with a road, busses can drive in the canal, and road-like means if you combine it with a tram rail, trams can drive in the canal
16:13<frosch123>don't do articulated gondolas
16:13<andythenorth>make it boatlike
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: i'm still convinced that i'll need 3 on one tile
16:13<andythenorth>I would settle for some canal boats
16:13<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: i thought you settled on making it do transitons like elrail
16:13<andythenorth>bridges would be stupid though
16:14<andythenorth>tunnels are ok
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: that only solves half the problems
16:14<frosch123>yeah, i think the ship tunnel topic also lists gondolas :p
16:14<Eddi|zuHause>there are canal bridges
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>i visited one in france once
16:15<andythenorth>I guess we'd just draw locks on the slopes (if present)
16:15<andythenorth>bridges are fine, the issue is that they'd look stupid when they end in a bridge slope
16:15<andythenorth>I could live with it
16:15<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but you can't really forbid slopes
16:16<andythenorth>slopes on land just need locks - instead of pavements :P
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>at least no roadtype proposal ever contained that flag :p
16:16<andythenorth>really-flat-roads :P
16:16<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you need a road-object for locks :)
16:16<andythenorth>state machine?
16:17<andythenorth>let me convert you into an autoreply bot :)
16:17<andythenorth>oh, I'm not smart enough to do that :(
16:17<Eddi|zuHause>good luck :)
16:17<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: when andy mentions locks, it's your turn to mention falkirk wheels and state machines
16:17<@planetmaker>I really wonder whether transport types wouldn't be the 'better' generalisation ;)
16:17<andythenorth>rivers as a roadtype?
16:17<@planetmaker>instead of [road|rail|canal|...]
16:17<Eddi|zuHause>what's a falkirk wheel?
16:17<frosch123>oh, i was to slow
16:18<frosch123>he actrually did
16:18<andythenorth>planetmaker: bi-directional?
16:18<@planetmaker>andythenorth, whatever is defined as compatible. Up to you ;)
16:18<andythenorth>also ski-lifts, aerial tramways, people movers, magic walking floors :P
16:18<@planetmaker>with a property which defines pathfinder / signals / ... as property
16:19<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you forgot pipelines and electricity wires
16:19<andythenorth>why are canals-as-roadtype better than just 'canals' ?
16:19<andythenorth>I mean, one of them already exists
16:19<andythenorth>oh, the docks suck, I remember
16:19<andythenorth>and narrow boats could pass instead of driving through each other
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the complaint was that towns can't grow along "road-rails" :)
16:20<@planetmaker>they would simply be another road type thing then
16:20<Eddi|zuHause>(although my roadtype suggestion included a flag "can't grow along this roadtype")
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16:24<Eddi|zuHause>"Kerry says 20.000 soldiers are on the Crimea"... aren't they allowed to have like up to 25.000 anyway?
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16:37<TinoDidriksen>In their bases, yes. Out and about, no so much.
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17:10<andythenorth>this code doesn't need much refactoring :(
17:11<andythenorth>I accidentally abstracted most of it for trains, I just have to stop building 3 vehicles where 1 will do
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17:14<andythenorth>hmm that was way too easy
17:14<andythenorth>I distrust it
17:14<andythenorth>something must be wrong
17:16<Zoolevation>Hello, I got a question, when a station offers goods or passengers, etc. The number of it drops after a short period of time when it is not collected by a train etc. Is it possible to turn that off?
17:17<@Alberth>only by better servicing the station, afaik
17:17<Eddi|zuHause>you need to keep the station rating high
17:18<Eddi|zuHause>that can be done by various ways, like frequent bus service, or writing a newgrf
17:22<Zoolevation>alright, thanks guys!
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17:24<andythenorth>make != make install
17:25<andythenorth>trying to test a grf with make alone leads to wrong results
17:25<@planetmaker>hm ,really?
17:25<andythenorth>really :P
17:25<Eddi|zuHause>that's why i symlinked my compile output into the newgrf directory
17:25<andythenorth>wrong make target causes things to look not broken when you expect them to be broken :)
17:26*planetmaker never uses 'make install'
17:26<Eddi|zuHause>exactly, "make install" does evil things, avoid it whenever possible
17:27<andythenorth>every day is a school day
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17:28<Phreeze>when compilking stuff for yourself, it usually fails hard^^
17:28<Phreeze>always a dependency that fails
17:29<Phreeze>make install
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17:30<@Alberth>in my experience it more often fails on /me making a mistake in the code :)
17:32<andythenorth>I have never known anything cause 'make install' to fail that doesn't also cause 'make' to fail
17:33<andythenorth>except a bad path in the makefile config for install location :P
17:33<Phreeze>i dont write code, but when i download source and want to compile it, it gives me errors
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18:14<andythenorth>bully for me
18:14<andythenorth>my RV set now has 3 mining trucks that are already in HEQS anyway, but in this set they're broken!
18:14<andythenorth>shall I release it? o_O
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18:23<andythenorth>hey look
18:23<andythenorth>it's pikka
18:23<andythenorth>just at bed time too
18:23<andythenorth>probably under the bed
18:23<Pikka>how rare
18:23<andythenorth>8.25 in Brisvegas
18:23<andythenorth>quite late
18:26<andythenorth>Pikka: made anything nice? o_O
18:26<Pikka>errr, what's nice?
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18:27<andythenorth>nice things are nice
18:27<Pikka>working on this:
18:28<andythenorth>is it a boat?
18:28<andythenorth>not a boat
18:28<Pikka>it could be
18:28<andythenorth>si nice
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18:28<Pikka>if you put it in a water
18:28<andythenorth>I like this scale
18:28<Pikka>this is the second-last conventional rail locomotive
18:29<Pikka>one more, then one monorail and two maglevs to go
18:29<andythenorth>is it a helectro-diesel?
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18:29<Pikka>just helectros
18:29<andythenorth>you and your simple sets
18:29<andythenorth>you should try making something complicated for a change
18:29<Pikka>no helectrodiesels, no 3rd rails, all very basic
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18:30<Pikka>there's also only one vehicle in the set (apart from the steam locos with tenders) which isn't 8/8 :)
18:31<andythenorth>winner is you
18:31<@Alberth>who needs tracks, just drive on the ground, like zephyris does on mars
18:31<andythenorth>is it 4/8?
18:31<andythenorth>wonder if I could persuade Dan to make everything 8/8 or 4/8
18:31<Pikka>it's 6/8... 4/8 is a bit wacky, scale-wise.
18:32<andythenorth>it bugs me when I build a train and get 7.1 length :P
18:32<andythenorth>is the over-length train penalty still insanely painful?
18:32<andythenorth>or did someone fix it?
18:32<Pikka>I think it's still insanely
18:33<andythenorth>probably for the best
18:33<NGC3982>My cat snores.
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18:33<Pikka>but yeah, it's only locos which I change the length on
18:33<Pikka>all the wagons are 8/8, so getting the right length isn't too tricky
18:33<andythenorth>I like my set, but maybe I'll use yours :P
18:33<NGC3982>Also, what kind of douchebag wants to win a multiplayer year 500000 non-ending game so bad that they use all their money to water the whole map.
18:34<andythenorth>spose it's bed time for andythenorth
18:34<Pikka>360 noscope airshot land lowering
18:34<Pikka>goodnight andythenorth
18:34<andythenorth>goodnight pikkas
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18:49<Eddi|zuHause>my 13lu wagons probably make it a bit tricky to pick a useful engine to make train length a multiple of 16lu
18:55<Wolf01>'night all
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---Logclosed Fri Mar 14 00:00:30 2014