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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-03-14

---Logopened Fri Mar 14 00:00:30 2014
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04:24<peter1139>Someone left the cake out, in the rain.
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04:55<Flygon>That'd be quite neat...
04:55<Flygon>Weather in maps
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05:44<Jerry_>hi?
05:44<Jerry_>???
05:44<V453000>no hi
05:47<Flygon>I'm Tom!
05:48<Jerry_>hi
05:48<Jerry_>why don't planes crash on takeoff
05:50<V453000>why yes
05:50<Jerry_>takeoff in otted
05:50<Jerry_>openttd*
05:51<V453000>why should they
05:51<Jerry_>like into buildingd
05:51<Jerry_>buildings
05:51<V453000>yeah
05:51<V453000>why
05:51<Jerry_>nvm
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06:07<peter1139>Great suggestion... o_O
06:07-!-Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
06:12<Xaroth|Work>peter1139: didn't you have a patch for that?
06:21<peter1139>Of course.
06:21<peter1139>Probably.
06:24-!-gpsoft [~gpsoft@97e1b052.skybroadband.com] has joined #openttd
06:26<NGC3982>Morning.
06:27<Xaroth|Work>o/
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06:51<Celestar1>good day :D
06:52<peter1139>hey
06:52<__ln___>hello Celestar1
06:52-!-Celestar1 is now known as Celestar
06:52<Celestar>how's life?
06:52<Xaroth|Work>o/
06:54<V453000>moo
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07:06<LordAro>:o a Celestar
07:06<Celestar>:P
07:06<LordAro>how are you/
07:06<LordAro>?
07:08<Celestar>not too shabby actually.
07:09<Celestar>how about ye?
07:14<LordAro>can't complain too much
07:14<LordAro>somewhat struggling to come up with a decent GSoC application(s)
07:28<Celestar>oh
07:28<Celestar>no idea ;)
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07:41<Celestar>people asked me to do a little openttd presentation at work :D
07:41<V453000>lolwat
07:41<Celestar>well it's a company of nerds.
07:41<Celestar>so they are interested.
07:42<Celestar>so I'm kinda wondering what platform that beast actually works on meanwhile
07:43<V453000>nice enuf
07:45<Celestar>because all the old BeOS, MorphOS, Solaris, etc stuff seems to no longer exist
07:45<__ln___>:(
07:46<Celestar>does it?
07:47<peter1139>Which beast?
07:48<Celestar>openttd :P
07:48<peter1139>Oh
07:48<peter1139>Hmm, there's MorphOS stuff in there. I don't think BeOS stuff ever got merged.
07:56<Celestar>back in 20
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08:28<Celestar>b
08:29<__ln___>c
08:29<Celestar>1ef
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08:43<Celestar>jeez I haven't played this in a long time :> I can't even seen to serve a water pump :P
08:45<peter1139>What's this 'play' that you talk of?
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08:52<@planetmaker>a Celestar! Again! :)
08:53<Celestar>loops like it
08:53<Celestar>looks
08:53<@planetmaker>how's life?
08:53<Celestar>peter1139: randomly pushing some buttons in the GUI :P
08:53<Celestar>not bad not bad, you?
08:53<Celestar>Trying to understand how a 777 just goes missing :P
08:55<@planetmaker>not bad either :)
08:55<@planetmaker>trying that for fun? Or for living? :P
08:56<Celestar>mostly fun
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09:10<@planetmaker>it's a big mystery anyway, quite odd
09:10<@planetmaker>wouldn't have believed that to be possible for a plane to just go *poof* without trace
09:14<Celestar>I don't believe the 'go poof' part
09:14<Celestar>not after the most recent data
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09:30*andythenorth considers a FIRS parameter for cargo rate curves
09:32<Celestar>someone really has to explain ECS to me
09:33<Celestar>got a truck station next to a water supply but there's no water getting loaded. does that miss some newgrf or what?
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09:43<@planetmaker>Celestar, play FIRS ;)
09:44<Celestar>with FIRS being?
09:44<@planetmaker>and... a station only supplies cargoX, if a vehicle demands it and has been refit to cargoX in order to pickup that cargo
09:44<@planetmaker>FIRS is a NewGRF, an industry NewGRF
09:45<Celestar>why FIRS > ECS?
09:45<@planetmaker>no, I'd not say that. Different
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09:46<@planetmaker>But it's a bit more my personal taste
09:46<@planetmaker>more stable economy
09:46<Celestar>I see.
09:47<@planetmaker>but not less complex
09:50<Celestar>so for that you need some refittable vehicle set, right?
09:50<Celestar>jeez, it's been long
09:58<@planetmaker>yes, you need that if you want to transport anything other than the default cargoes
09:59<Celestar>any decent set for that with 32bpp/more zoom?
10:01<@planetmaker>not in bananas as far as I know. There's a development version of OpenGFX+ Trains which has some: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ogfx-trains/nightlies
10:02<@planetmaker>you might try also NUTS trainset. Add HEQS vehicles, FISH ships, av9.8 planes and opengfx+ Road Vehicles or egrvts2
10:03<@planetmaker>don't use heqs as the only (road) vehicle set though. It's only meant to be complementary
10:04<Celestar>so opengfx is normal resolution and opengfx+ is full zoom or what?
10:12<@planetmaker>no, OpenGFX+ is just OpenGFX extended for better gameplay with NewGRF features
10:12<Eddi|zuHause>opengfx is the base set, opengfx+ is newgrfs that somewhat enhance the default
10:13<Celestar>ah ;)
10:13<@planetmaker>if you're daring, you might try my newest landscape set, which also is only available as development version. And which only works for temperate and tropical: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/pota-ghat/push/LATEST/ ;)
10:13<@planetmaker>That is 32bpp, though
10:15<Celestar>:D
10:15<@planetmaker>http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/other_tropic2.png
10:16<Celestar>lol ;D
10:16<Celestar>some nice shit
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10:21<@planetmaker>Celestar, another very interesting set, also still in development and somewhat far from being finished: Central European Trainset (CETS): http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/cets/nightlies
10:21<Celestar>yeah I have seen that
10:22<@planetmaker>k :)
10:22<Celestar>game looks weird when you zoom fully in and some sprites have full resolution and others not :D
10:22<@planetmaker>yup
10:23<@planetmaker>it works if you only use 2x zoom, though
10:24<Celestar>yeah.
10:24<Celestar>well it WORKS on 4x :P
10:24<@planetmaker>yeah, well. :)
10:24<@planetmaker>what company is that that wants an openttd presentation? :D
10:26<Celestar>the one I'm working at?
10:26<Celestar>www.tngtech.com
10:29<Celestar>why? :P
10:29<@planetmaker>just curious :)
10:30<Celestar>is there a list of 4xzoom newgrfs?
10:31<Celestar>for the eyecandy stuffs :P
10:32<@planetmaker>I fear nothing more (or much more) than listed in the wiki. And I fear that list is extremely short.
10:33<@planetmaker>https://wiki.openttd.org/Playing_with_32_bpp_graphics
10:33<@planetmaker>so pota-ghat is missing, egrvts2 as well. I know no others. Though Pikka has some trainset in the pipeline I recon
10:33<Celestar>egrvts2 doesn't seem 4x
10:34<@planetmaker>ah, yes
10:34<@planetmaker>same as opengfx-mars is 32bpp but not 4x
10:34<peter1139>Using that script that rubidium made was far too complex for the 32bpp artists so they decided to moan instead...
10:34<@planetmaker>possibly I should make Zephyris draw / render 4x sprites
10:34<Celestar>yeah poke him :D
10:34<Celestar>peter1139: about what?
10:35<@planetmaker>'too complex', 'work lost / wasted'
10:35<@planetmaker>but it all was: they had no license attached to their work. That's why most is lost
10:35<peter1139>Celestar, we changed the 32bpp storage format to work better and be way more efficient, and rubidium provided a script that would convert everything in one go to the new format.
10:36<peter1139>For the most part, they ignored the script, threw a paddy & left...
10:36<Celestar>uh huh..
10:36<@planetmaker>yeah
10:36-!-montalvo [~montalvo@ip68-108-148-173.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #openttd
10:36<peter1139>That was... 2 years ago? Dunno
10:37<Celestar>weird.
10:37<@planetmaker>1.2, yes
10:37<Celestar>what does that have to do with the liencese?
10:37<@planetmaker>no license == no possibility for someone to code it
10:38<peter1139>Yeah, it all worked as well as it could, bearing in mind some of it was broken with the old system anyway.
10:38<Celestar>so.
10:38<peter1139>But nothing for us to release as it wasn't our work, heh
10:38<Celestar>Artists are missing
10:38<peter1139>There's some left, heh
10:39<peter1139>There's a base set too I think
10:39<@planetmaker>missing... yes. no. Depends on how you view it :)
10:39<Celestar>;P
10:39<@planetmaker>there's zBase. But to me the landscape is a bit dull or too plain
10:40<Celestar>and it seems to be missing trams
10:40<@planetmaker>trams are not baseset stuff
10:40<@planetmaker>only tram tracks
10:41<Celestar>yah
10:41<Celestar>zBase is a nice start imho
10:42<@planetmaker>definitely. And that's its purpose
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10:43<@planetmaker>and not more really
10:43<@planetmaker>like "here, see. I made this all alone and I made it in reasonable time (like 6 months or so)
10:43<@planetmaker>No reason to whine that it all is lost etc"
10:44<@planetmaker>Or so I believe was part of Zeph's motivation, too. Other than that he had most of the procedures already available and used for generating OpenGFX
10:44<@planetmaker>And UKHouses or so
10:44<@planetmaker>and egrvts etc :)
10:45<peter1139>Maybe they're still waiting for unrelated bullshit like curved tracks and consistent scaling...
10:45<Celestar>custombridgeheads? :D
10:45<@planetmaker>that's another sad story with the goldrush thingy
10:45<peter1139>Which somehow always fell into the plans of people doing the artwork.
10:45<Celestar>what goldrush
10:45<@planetmaker>typical case of 'I only want to show perfect stuff and rather nothing'
10:45<peter1139>Oh has that died now?
10:46<@planetmaker>dunno. But haven't heard anything in ages
10:46<@planetmaker>http://badbrett.deviantart.com/gallery/39078388 @ Celestar. True screenshots
10:46<Celestar>O_o
10:46<peter1139>Oh that was the one where you set up the repo but he didn't quite understand it...
10:46<@planetmaker>yes
10:46<Celestar>that is kind of ... awesomeish
10:47<@planetmaker>it's a matlab-based thing to compose stuff, or so he said :D
10:48<Celestar>planetmaker: so he never finished it?
10:48<peter1139>He didn't want people to make unfinished versions of it, so never released any of it
10:48<@planetmaker>yeah... https://rhodecode.openttdcoop.org/goldrush-trains/raw/23d2a1996774849bebb2a05845fe434822bc84bc/src/Projects/GoldRush/gfx/Houses/House_1/Stage_6.png
10:49<@planetmaker>he 'tried' and then decided that it's actually not his way to go
10:49<Celestar>I see
10:49<@planetmaker>so since this commits nothing was ever heard of it again
10:49<@planetmaker>very sad
10:50<@planetmaker>I kinda offered him all the help I could, hosting, building, rendering time... alas
10:50<@planetmaker>programming
10:52<@planetmaker>he also wanted it all as one pack, houses, landscape, vehicles, industries. Sorta scenario-thingish.
10:53<Celestar>one pack?
10:53<@planetmaker>who knows?
10:53<@planetmaker>I would have advised against
10:53<@planetmaker>s/would //g
10:55<Celestar>well
10:55<Celestar>it takes a lot of stamina to see THAT through
10:56<@planetmaker>yes. That's why smaller chunks is better. You then can actually reach goals. And you also get valuable feedback. And possibly also help from other volunteers. I'm sure he would get, if he would happily share his work
10:57<@planetmaker>I mean... nothing else is OpenGFX Mars. It's a complete set with everything
10:57<@planetmaker>but it's about as finished. but it's open and public and does get input and support. It will get finished this year quite likely
10:58<@planetmaker>But then... no 4x zoom...
10:58<@planetmaker>thus not that detailed finesse
11:13<Celestar>pity.
11:13<Celestar>A finished 32bpp 4x zoom DBSetXL :D
11:24<Celestar>I guess that takes about 2 million years to make
11:24<Celestar>is anyone actually wokring on it?
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11:31<@planetmaker>no
11:32<@planetmaker>dbset is anyway the duke nukem forever of TTD
11:33<@planetmaker>how it ends is undetermined though, contrary to duke nukem ;)
11:33<Celestar>lol
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11:34<Celestar>maybe I we should do it :P
11:34<@planetmaker>draw / render that for CETS, yes
11:35<@planetmaker>contrary to whatever becomes of dbset, cets is open source and not vapourware
11:37<@planetmaker>sprites and graphics is basically all what is missing for CETS
11:38<@planetmaker>eddi will disagree, but well :P
11:38<Celestar>lol
11:38<Celestar>disagree? why?
11:39<@planetmaker>he might say that it needs some code refactoring or so. Dunno really :)
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11:43<Celestar>haha
11:43<Celestar>maybe I should once try to make a single train :P
11:44<@planetmaker>:)
11:45<Celestar>pity I have no fucking clue how to use blender
11:49<peter1139>http://hg.openttd.org/developers/celestar/cargodest.hg/
11:49<@planetmaker>I can sign that statement myself, too
11:49<peter1139>those were the days
11:49<Celestar>haha
11:49<Celestar>yeah.
11:49<Celestar>CUSTOMBRIDGEHEADS
11:49<Celestar>*cough*
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11:49<peter1139>oh no
11:50<peter1139>i'm fairly sure it should be easy ;p
11:50*peter1139 hides
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11:50<@planetmaker>sure it is. Someone on the internet said so. Thus it must be so
11:50<peter1139>i had it working!
11:51<Celestar>me too
11:51<Celestar>except for some stupid reverse-on-bridgehead cornercase
11:52<peter1139>It was simpler when I had it going
11:52<Celestar>so, peter1139, when do we do it? :P
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11:52<peter1139>I'd have to remember how to write C/C++ first.
11:52<Taede>ello
11:53<@planetmaker>hi Taede
11:53<Celestar>peter1139: yeah me too
11:53<Celestar>I'm contaminated by Java meanwhile
11:53<Celestar>which sucks donkey balls and then some.
11:54<peter1139>Ewww
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11:55<peter1139>I did get some stuff committed into jack1 last week.
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11:56<SpComb>news at 11: OpenTTD developers unable to write C/C++ code
11:57<peter1139>We all started that way.
11:57<Celestar>yeah.
11:57<Celestar>should polish my skills again
11:57<Celestar>hm
11:59<@planetmaker>definitely :)
12:09<Celestar>first win the lottery so work is not required to pay the bills :D
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12:20<rubidium>ahoy
12:24<Xaroth|Work>o/
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12:41<Eddi|zuHause>the only way to win the lottery is not to play
12:42<@planetmaker>that's only statistics ;)
12:42<rubidium>pff... you never win anything with a lottery or slot machines
12:42<rubidium>this is based on emperical proof
12:55<Eddi|zuHause><planetmaker> he might say that it needs some code refactoring or so. Dunno really :) <-- the code is fine, what's needed is a balance run over the tracking table, and reinstating the non-german vehicles
12:57<Eddi|zuHause>there are a few deeper nice-to-have things, like determining the livery or number of articulated parts in the buy menu
12:58<Eddi|zuHause>but i wouldn't make a release depend on that
12:58<Eddi|zuHause>and then $someone needs to get started on the accompanying track set (with curves)
12:59-!-Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:59<@planetmaker>that requires some openttd changes. you cannot query adjacent curvature yet
13:00<Eddi|zuHause>i know
13:00<@planetmaker>(or do I err there?)
13:00<Eddi|zuHause>it's like 10LOC :)
13:00<@planetmaker>approximately yes.
13:01<Eddi|zuHause>and then a lengthy argument on how it doesn't affect performance that much :p
13:01<@planetmaker>exactly :P
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14:02<andythenorth>where is game?
14:03<__ln___>afoot
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14:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26401 trunk/src/lang/catalan.txt (2014-03-14 18:45:08 UTC)
14:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
14:45<@DorpsGek>catalan - 4 changes by juanjo
14:50<George>planetmaker: Are you here?
14:50<George>Can you make me a contributor here http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/worldairlinersset ?
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15:01-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
15:01<Wolf01>ciao
15:01-!-Phreeze [~p@vodsl-4744.vo.lu] has joined #openttd
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15:16<andythenorth>o/
15:16<andythenorth>so has anyone won at 2048?
15:17<Pinkbeast>Yes. (Not me)
15:17<Pinkbeast>But I have seen a convincing existence proof for winners
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15:40<andythenorth>I've got 1024
15:40<andythenorth>but not 2048 :(
15:40<andythenorth>the tactic is simple, but hard to get right
15:40<Wolf01>I lost at 512 :(
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15:49<andythenorth>urgh
15:49<andythenorth>too addictive
15:54<andythenorth>quak
15:55<frosch123>hola
15:58<andythenorth>@seen pikka
15:58<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 21 hours, 24 minutes, and 1 second ago: <Pikka> goodnight andythenorth
16:03*andythenorth makes RVs
16:03<George>@seen planetmaker
16:03<@DorpsGek>George: planetmaker was last seen in #openttd 3 hours, 1 minute, and 48 seconds ago: <planetmaker> exactly :P
16:20*andythenorth commits
16:20<andythenorth>now back to 2048 :P
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16:39<CrystalMare>I'm having problems with installing openTTD on my ubuntu server
16:40<CrystalMare>I keep getting a depenency error when installing the .deb file with dpkg
16:43<Phreeze>which one ?
16:43<Phreeze>i installed in on ubuntu
16:44<CrystalMare>12.04.4 LTS
16:44<CrystalMare>x64
16:44<Phreeze>which error ^^
16:44<Phreeze>copy paste the line
16:45<CrystalMare>Here
16:45<CrystalMare>http://i.imgur.com/9OAL1i0.png
16:45<Phreeze>apt-get install liblzo2-2 ;)
16:45<Phreeze>tried that ?
16:45<CrystalMare>Yeah,
16:45<CrystalMare>It throws another error
16:45<CrystalMare>Its needs another depenency
16:46<CrystalMare>The following packages have unmet dependencies: openttd : Depends: libsdl1.2debian (>= 1.2.10-1) but it is not going to be installed Recommends: openttd-opengfx but it is not going to be installed E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution).
16:46<Phreeze>tried that ? with -f
16:46<__ln___>doesn't it clearly say what to do..
16:47<Phreeze>opengfx is not needed, you can add it later
16:47<CrystalMare>Alright it worked!
16:47<CrystalMare>Thanks!
16:48<Phreeze>lol i get even more errors^^
16:48<Phreeze>openttd:i386 depends on libfontconfig1 (>= 2.9.0); however:
16:48<Phreeze>Version of libfontconfig1:i386 on system is 2.8.0-3ubuntu9.1.
16:48<Phreeze>i often get those errors
16:48<Phreeze>that i have the blabla-ubuntu version of a library, instead of the blabla libraray
16:48-!-retro|cz [~retro@ip-89-176-82-80.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:48<Phreeze>piece of horsepoop
16:49<andythenorth>grrr
16:49<andythenorth>2048
16:49<Phreeze>?
16:49-!-KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
16:50<CrystalMare>Oh wait
16:50<CrystalMare>Now I need to get a graphics set
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>get a real distribution. or a package manager that actually knows how to resolve dependencies
16:51<Phreeze>ubuntu is da realest
16:51<Phreeze>even if not loved by the geeks
16:52<Phreeze>even apt-get install openttd works
16:52<CrystalMare>Nope
16:52<CrystalMare>It installed an old version for me
16:52<CrystalMare>lol
16:52<CrystalMare>But I'm having another problem
16:52<Phreeze>at least try:
16:52<CrystalMare>I need a graphics set
16:52<Phreeze>apt-get install openttd-gfx
16:52<Phreeze>wait,
16:52<Phreeze>apt-get install openttd-opengfx
16:52<CrystalMare>Figures
16:53<Phreeze>as you already installeds latest stable manually
16:53<Phreeze>you can install an "old" opengfx
16:53<Phreeze>and update it using the newgrf updater
16:53<Phreeze>if your ubuntu is command line only, i can't give you the command, i'm using mine graphically
16:54<CrystalMare>It's a VPS ;)
16:54<CrystalMare>Thanks Phreeze!
16:54<andythenorth>debugging with python multiprocessing is shit :(
16:56<Phreeze>did it work CrystalMare
16:57<CrystalMare>Yeah it did
16:58<CrystalMare>Running fine now
16:59<Phreeze>don't use too large maps
17:00<Phreeze>i got a dedicated server, 4gb ram, dualcore amd and on a 1024 map with 3 players, the autosave causes 1second lags
17:00<CrystalMare>Alright
17:00<CrystalMare>I'm sticking with the 256 map
17:00<CrystalMare>I got a 1GB ram single cored VPS
17:01<CrystalMare>It's also running a website and teamspeak
17:01<CrystalMare>so yeah :P
17:01<Phreeze>easy then ;) that's less than a tablet ^^
17:01<Phreeze>yeah, ts and website dont take powe
17:01<Phreeze>r
17:01<CrystalMare>Yup
17:17<andythenorth>stupid 2048
17:18<Phreeze>map?
17:19<andythenorth>http://gabrielecirulli.github.io/2048/
17:19<andythenorth>there goes your evening
17:23<Phreeze>1224 until now ^^
17:24<andythenorth>there is a winning strategy
17:24<andythenorth>but I won't spoil it for you
17:24<andythenorth>there is also an AI version, which saves you wasting time :P
17:24<Phreeze>DAMN stuck
17:24<Phreeze>1416
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17:25<andythenorth>12104
17:25<andythenorth>but I've been playing for 24 hours
17:27<andythenorth>so did anyone code CanalTypes yet? o_O
17:27<Phreeze>3012-...
17:27<Phreeze>i must stop now
17:27<Phreeze>better stop that...
17:28<andythenorth>really addictive
17:42<andythenorth>her
17:42<andythenorth>stupid game
17:46-!-FLHerne [~FLHerne@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd
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17:49<Eddi|zuHause>so i was at 256...
17:49<andythenorth>and?
17:51-!-bdavenport [~davenport@chronos.rpi.mindlesstux.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:54<andythenorth>lost, or got bored? o_O
17:56-!-sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has quit []
18:04<Eddi|zuHause>lost. now at 512...
18:06<__ln___>it keeps saying "game over"
18:09<andythenorth>hmm
18:09<andythenorth>self.track_type
18:09<andythenorth>won't be needing *that* for road vehicles
18:12<Xaroth|Work>andythenorth: extra road types?
18:12<andythenorth>yeah
18:12<andythenorth>when hell freezes over
18:26<Supercheese>various cities called Hell have gotten very cold this winter ;)
18:27<andythenorth>I saw a picture
18:30-!-oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
18:32<__ln___>512
18:36-!-Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit []
18:38<Phreeze>falling asleep while playing diablo3...
18:38<Phreeze>time to go to sleep
18:39<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: use it for distinguishing truck/tram
18:44<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: already got a solution for that :)
18:44<andythenorth>considered it though ;)
18:46-!-Phreeze [~p@vodsl-4744.vo.lu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:47<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: what's there to solve?
18:53-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:59<+michi_cc>andythenorth: Damn you :)
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19:07<andythenorth>I am starting to really hate 2048
19:08<andythenorth>the winning strategy is keep highest value tile in a corner
19:08<andythenorth>but it's hard to not make mistakes
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19:25<andythenorth>bye
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19:47<Gooby>hello everyone
19:48<Gooby>my openttd client isn't downloading the server list
19:48<Gooby>anyone having similar problems?
19:48<Gooby>i'm running openttd 1.3.3
19:49<Gooby>it was working a couple hours ago so i guess the host from which the server list is retrieved is down?
19:51<Supercheese>network issues are tough to diagnose, IMO
19:52<Gooby>yeah, they can be tricky
19:52<Gooby>Supercheese: is it working for you?
19:53-!-MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Quit: That's all folks!]
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20:00<Wolf01>'night all
20:00-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
20:00<@planetmaker>Gooby, as http://www.openttd.org/en/servers shows still all servers it must be network issue on your end
20:01<@planetmaker>especially when it worked for you before :)
20:01<Gooby>planetmaker: well, i can't reach openttd.org, for some reason
20:01<Gooby>my browser times out
20:01<Gooby>so that's gotta have something to do with it
20:02<Gooby>thanks for the link
20:05<Supercheese>Seems like you have Soundtrack #13 syndrome: "Can't get There from Here"
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20:11<Supercheese>or, at least your packets do
20:15<Gooby>lol :)
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20:43<Gooby>see you!
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21:07<britdude92>Morning
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21:15<Eddi|zuHause>damn, i was sooo close to 2048 :/
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21:17<Afdal>hey paesanos
21:17<Afdal>Anyone know if it would be possible to make a newGRF that changes signal behavior?
21:21<Supercheese>only a source code patch could do that
21:22<Afdal>darn
21:22<Afdal>too bad :(
21:25<Hazzard>Make a NOT signal
21:25<Hazzard>:D
21:26<Afdal>Yeah
21:26<Afdal>That's exactly what I'm interested in
21:26<Afdal>Tired of you no-breakdowns fellas hoarding all the cool stuff
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21:28<Hazzard>Really?
21:28<@planetmaker>Afdal, with the existing signals you can build a full ALU
21:28<Afdal>ALU?
21:28<@planetmaker>or full adder. ALU = algorithmic unit
21:28<Supercheese>someone designed a turing-complete network using OTTD signals, IIRC
21:28<Afdal>Yeah I know all about that stuff
21:28<@planetmaker>yeah. coopers did :D
21:28<Afdal>but you need breakdowns off
21:29<Afdal>in order for logic constructions to work right
21:29<Hazzard>Hmm
21:29<Supercheese>well, yeah
21:29<Afdal>that's why a NOT signal would be nice
21:29<@planetmaker>what gameplay purpose other than complete nerdyness would it serve?
21:29<Hazzard>Yeah...
21:29<Afdal>there's all sorts of uses for not setups :3
21:30<Afdal>one is splitting trains
21:30<@planetmaker>I take a chainsaw for that :P
21:30<Afdal>oh u
21:30<@planetmaker>I lied. A welding laser is better
21:30<Supercheese>I prefer Southern Thunder
21:30<Supercheese>splits 'em right good
21:31<@planetmaker>the only path to a not signal I can see is, if someone actually devise a workable and non-tabular way to display programmable signals and their inter relation easily, also on the map - without the need to click every signal to get to know what it does
21:32<Afdal>you mean making the interface friendly?
21:32<@planetmaker>yes. A usable interface
21:32<Afdal>well
21:32<Afdal>it would just be a simple newGRF
21:32<Afdal>for advanced users
21:33<Afdal>if it were possible -_-
21:33<@planetmaker>good. Go ahead and design the interface for generally programmable signals
21:33<Afdal>I'd just replace the two-way path signal with it
21:33<@planetmaker>ok, *that* way we don't even need to continue to talk
21:33<Afdal>sadly it doesn't seem to be
21:33<Afdal>bummer man
21:34<Afdal>Unless you think it is possible?
21:34<@planetmaker>thus I told you: go and devise a usable UI for generally programmable signals. That's the way you *might* have success
21:34<Afdal>to change signal behavior with a newGRF, planetmaker?
21:34<@planetmaker>not newgr
21:34<@planetmaker>f
21:34<Afdal>aww
21:34<Afdal>okay
21:35<Hazzard>New UI would be useful anyway, even if there was no not signal
21:36<@planetmaker>what would you gain by a new UI for the existing signals, Hazzard ?
21:36<@planetmaker>andyway, also for you Hazzard: if you want a new UI, the least everyone can do: make actual mock-ups on how it should look like and work
21:37<Hazzard>Yup
21:37<@planetmaker>that needs no programming experience, just a graphics programme
21:37<@planetmaker>it need not be pretty, but it need to show the concept(s)
21:38<@planetmaker>and explain why that way and not the existing :)
21:38<Hazzard>Also, two way PBS is actually really useful
21:38<Afdal>for penalties
21:38<@planetmaker>no. For signaling
21:38<Afdal>but there's plenty of other ways to do penalties
21:38<Afdal>o rly?
21:38<@planetmaker>o rly!
21:39<Afdal>What else do you use it for?
21:39<@planetmaker>two-way roro
21:39<Afdal>baaah
21:39<Afdal>What does one of those look like :3
21:39<@planetmaker>also called simple in-line stations
21:39<@planetmaker>=x=ssss=x=
21:39<@planetmaker>where = is track; x is x-junction and s is station
21:40<Afdal>No I mean
21:40<Afdal>got an example :3
21:40<Afdal>I know you hang with the openttdcoop crowd
21:40<@planetmaker>http://wiki.openttd.org/Railway_Stations <-- first, simplest station
21:41<Hazzard>http://lugservo.no-ip.biz/download/twowayroro.png
21:41<Hazzard>:D
21:41<@planetmaker>also the "combined and roro station"
21:41<Afdal>two-way station like that doesn't seem like the greatest idea
21:41<Afdal>kind of defeats the strength of a roro station doesn't it
21:41<@planetmaker>the path signaling there is more efficient than block signaling
21:41<@planetmaker>it doesn't
21:41<@planetmaker>depends on your network
21:41<Hazzard>But actually, that's not what I was talking about
21:42<Afdal>:o
21:42<@planetmaker>and your time tabling
21:42<Afdal>What were you talking about?
21:43<@planetmaker>anyway. The discussion is moot: there's no way an existing signal type will be removed. Ever.
21:43<Afdal>gosh I:}
21:43<Hazzard>two way pbs can be used to turn block signals into pbs signals
21:43<Afdal>I wasn't asking for it to be
21:44<Afdal>just interested in a gain-of-function newgrf or something
21:44<Afdal>yeah but why would you use that?
21:44<Afdal>over a one-way path signal?
21:44<@planetmaker>and forget the word 'newgrf' in conjunction with how signals work. That's also an extremely unlikely thing to happen
21:44<Afdal>o-okay -_-
21:45<@planetmaker>it needs interaction with the path finder directly. Thus that's where you need to work on, internally when dealing with signal types
21:45<@planetmaker>that's not newgrf terrain
21:45<Afdal>I see
21:58<Hazzard>Is it possible to make a train that doesn't break down?
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21:59<Afdal>doubt it
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---Logclosed Sat Mar 15 00:00:31 2014