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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-03-18

---Logopened Tue Mar 18 00:00:36 2014
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06:51<Celestar>dudes :P
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07:45<Eddi|zuHause>weird. i set my wall clock two days ago, and it's running 15 minutes late...
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07:54<__ln___>i think the rest of the world is running 15 minutes early
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09:31<peter1139>How many SEO experts does it take to screw in a light-bulb, bulb, light, eco bulb, lighting, electricity, hardcore, xxx ?
09:32<Celestar>wtf is SEO?
09:32<Eddi|zuHause>"search enginge optimisation"
09:33<Eddi|zuHause>things you do so your page gets first result on google
09:35<Flygon_>brb, getting my site on the first page when googling "Pokemon"
09:35-!-Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
10:19<Pinkbeast>Celestar: Spam by any other name would smell as spammy
10:21<NGC3982>SEO is not spam related?
10:21<NGC3982>It's a great thing.
10:21<NGC3982>Although, maybe a tad ambitious.
10:31<Flygon>peter1139: How many SEO experts would it take to get Trainz 2012 running on a desktop PC?
10:31<Flygon>I need to calculate it
10:42<juzza1>Pikka: did you find some way around the diagonal "squishing" described here ?
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10:55<Flygon>I never noticed that
10:56<Flygon>Despite the fact that i have actually drawn art with that exact flaw...
10:57<Flygon> Not very good art, mind you
11:12<Pikka>juzza1, yes
11:12<Pikka>I stopped doing it :)
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11:15<Pikka>I also stopped lengthening the vehicles in the horizontal and vertical views. I'm getting used to it. :P plus there's (a little) hope that if newgrf sets are released with correct-length vehicles, a dev might be willing to revisit the issue ;)
11:22<Flygon>Ah, got it working
11:33<juzza1>ah, i see
11:35<juzza1>rendering some models myself and was wondering if you already found a nicer solution, but i guess i'll go with shortening diagonal views for now
11:36<Flygon>brb $$$ nagging friends to make Vic AUS set that happens to have realistic lengths :B
11:37<Pikka>juzza1; if you're rendering, I'd just do them straight, don't shorten them :)
11:38<Pikka>no sense in doing extra work just to make your sprites look wrong...
11:40*Pinkbeast sees the spectre of mixed stretched and unstretched consists looming
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11:41<@planetmaker>Pikka: that's actually a good approach. It gives more reason to actually revisit it and renders the argument 'would break everything' less correct ;)
11:41<Pikka>that's my thinking, planetmaker :)
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12:00<juzza1>I found an automated & non-destructive way to shorten the diagonals in blender, so no extra work required. But i'll keep your argument in mind though, if when i actually create something playable :P
12:04<@planetmaker>32bpp seems to be the new kid in town :D
12:05<Pikka>he didn't say he was doing 32bpp ;)
12:06<@planetmaker>that's true. But honestly, if you render, it would be somewhat stupid to not include 32bpp at least as well :)
12:06<@planetmaker>or so I believe. I've little experience with rendering myself
12:06<peter1139>Oh, the old 28/29/32 length issue...
12:06<peter1139>Yeah, 32 bummed that one up.
12:07<Pikka>true. rendering in 8bpp (a la av8) is a huge pain. :)
12:07<Pinkbeast>But av8's so jolly
12:08<Pikka>av9 will be better!
12:08<Pikka>more pixels, more b!
12:09<peter1139>16x zoom!
12:09<Pinkbeast>Remember I'm the person who built the YAMC YS-11 :-)
12:09<Pikka>thanks :P
12:10<Pinkbeast>Well, actually, I probably built the locomotive equivalent of the YAMC YS-11 but you know what I mean
12:11<peter1139>Hey whatever happened to my RGB company colours patch...
12:12<@planetmaker>growing tentacles in a dark corner?
12:12<peter1139>13 months old :p
12:13<@planetmaker>what did it change?
12:13<peter1139>Free-RGB company colours...
12:13<Eddi|zuHause>weird shades of green and pink
12:14<peter1139> MY POOR EYS
12:14<@planetmaker>still useull, I recon
12:14<Pikka>MY POEOR EYS
12:15<peter1139> ^B mode!
12:15<peter1139>gotta love that van's offsets...
12:15<@planetmaker>haha :)
12:15<@planetmaker>the train also has interesting ones
12:15<Xaroth|Work>that truck looks attached to the train as well
12:16<peter1139>Yeah the train's offsets are wrong too.
12:16<Pikka>I *suppose* if I make a base set, I should use recolour masks
12:16<@planetmaker>you should
12:16<Pikka>it's work though
12:16<@planetmaker>yes :(
12:16<peter1139>Good luck with the edges...
12:17<peter1139>Also I see I still suck at UI design... those colours sliders :p
12:17<@planetmaker>it misses adjacent or beneath the sliders a field where I can enter explicitly the colour value
12:18<peter1139>And even a label...
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12:20<peter1139>Bah, still not 4096 in that game...
12:21<peter1139>Yeah, 2048's hard enough.
12:22<Xaroth|Work>got a link?
12:22*Xaroth|Work bored
12:22<Eddi|zuHause>it's not that hard if you can follow your strategy, but at certain points it forces you to make a move against this strategy, and then you're screwed
12:23<peter1139>SpComb, ... nice
12:23<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: err :p
12:23<SpComb>what? It's exactly the same gameplay mechanic :)
12:25<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: how many years does this take? :p
12:26<SpComb>if 2048 is 2 minutes then 9007199254740992 would be somewhere around 16000 years
12:26<SpComb>same difference
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12:30<@planetmaker>4096 size, peter1139?
12:31<Eddi|zuHause>i think there's a 16384 wobbling about in there now
12:32<Xaroth|Work>nice one, SpComb
12:32<Xaroth|Work>4096 :P
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13:11<peter1139>planetmaker, nah, just carrying on past 2048.
13:11<peter1139>Though there's an 8192 one that's the same size... must be hard :S
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13:14<Eddi|zuHause>not that hard, just licky
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13:24<peter1139>git rebase lol
13:25<peter1139>13 months of commits...
13:28<Eddi|zuHause>nobody touched GUI code :p
13:28<peter1139>Surely so...
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13:37<peter1139>Yeah, right, let's see if this builds...
13:37<peter1139>Probably should've test-compiled each rebase fix.
13:37<peter1139>Gotta live dangerously :D
13:38<Eddi|zuHause>put the rebases into a higher level versioning system :p
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13:45<peter1139>Hmm, WindowDescs not longer const.
13:49<peter1139>I remember when ottd took 15 seconds to compile on this machine :S
13:49<peter1139>Pre-C++ of course.
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14:00<peter1139>You know you've done good when it all compiles. And then fails to link.
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14:13<@DorpsGek>Commit by planetmaker :: r26412 /branches/1.4 (3 files in 3 dirs) (2014-03-18 18:13:33 UTC)
14:13<@DorpsGek>[1.4] -Change: We have a new titlegame (Fleashosio)
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14:36<Eddi|zuHause>you've had the same machine since the C++ port?
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14:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26413 /trunk/src/lang (luxembourgish.txt polish.txt) (2014-03-18 18:45:17 UTC)
14:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
14:45<@DorpsGek>luxembourgish - 2 changes by Phreeze
14:45<@DorpsGek>polish - 1 changes by xaxa
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15:16<Lacsap>Does anyone know why music doesnt work on ottd for mac?
15:17<Lacsap>Everuthing else work even sound FX so I really don't get it
15:18<andythenorth>Lacsap: which OS X?
15:18<andythenorth>not working for me either
15:18<andythenorth>just won't play
15:18<andythenorth>but I'm sure it works on my wife's mac when our toddler plays
15:18<andythenorth>both mavericks
15:19<Lacsap>hmm thats really weird, I tried to download all music sets but none of them works
15:19<Lacsap>But all sounds FX works
15:22<andythenorth>what ottd version?
15:22<andythenorth>ok it works for me if I compile my own
15:23<andythenorth>but not with a pre-compiled binary
15:23<Lacsap>Oh wait I got it
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15:23<Lacsap>Seems to be a bug reading the sounds volume value from the forum I checked
15:23<Wolf01>hello o/
15:23<Lacsap>When you get in a game just click the music icon and move the music volume slider
15:24<Lacsap>Hello Wolf01
15:25<andythenorth>Lacsap: just won't play for me
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15:25<andythenorth>playback doesn't start
15:25<andythenorth>might be a different issue :P
15:26<Lacsap>andythenorth Did you click the play button after moving the slider?
15:28<Lacsap>Hmmm then I really have no idea what it could be:/
15:29<Wolf01>steam down again...
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15:36<Phreeze>anybody uses mirc ? Mine's asking for there a free skinnable good alternative ?
15:39<Lacsap>On my windows machine I'm using HexChat which is pretty nice but it's a lot different from Mirc
15:49*Pinkbeast fails to comprehend "skinnable good"
15:52<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26414 /branches/1.4 (13 files in 4 dirs) (2014-03-18 19:51:54 UTC)
15:52<@DorpsGek>[1.4] -Update: documentation
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16:01<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26415 tags/1.4.0-RC1/ (2014-03-18 20:01:02 UTC)
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16:01<@DorpsGek>-Release: 1.4.0-RC1
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16:04<andythenorth>lo Alberth
16:04<@Alberth>hi hi
16:05<@planetmaker>hey ho
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16:16*andythenorth choosing truck names
16:20<andythenorth>Albert is on my list :
16:20<andythenorth>coincidentally :P
16:20<andythenorth>maybe I should name a roster after devs
16:21-!-Alberth is now known as notadev
16:22<andythenorth>notadev: you should have changed to notatruck
16:22<@planetmaker>No tad ev? :P
16:23<@notadev>andythenorth: nah, that's too close to your acronyms :p
16:24-!-notadev is now known as Alberth
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16:33<V453000>thoughts about making everything purchaseable in nuts 1-tile long?
16:33<V453000>e.g. 2 or 4 articulated wagons
16:33<V453000>and 1-tile trains
16:34<V453000>losing-wagons-during-autoreplace-to-longer-engines not anymore ?:D
16:34<andythenorth>I don't use nuts much, but it would make sense
16:34<V453000>it makes a lot of sense :d
16:34<V453000>only thing you lose is amount of flexibility and freedom to get e.g. 1.5 tile worth of engines (3)
16:36<andythenorth>I'm not your best source of feedback though :)
16:36<andythenorth>not being a dedicated user of NUTS...
16:36<V453000>sane logic is enough you dont have to use things to logically think
16:37<V453000>nobody uses n.5 tile trains anyway
16:37<V453000>always full tiles
16:38<@Alberth>not sure, I usually add wagons until it looks alright :)
16:38<frosch123>V453000: i don't think it is needed
16:38<@planetmaker>V453000, not 1-tile but 0.5 tile
16:38<V453000>but that until can be even simplier
16:38<frosch123>when do you autoreplace to a different engine class?
16:39<@planetmaker>otherwise everything is articulated...
16:39<V453000>obviously pm, things would indeed be articulated to 1 tile
16:39<frosch123>it's only important that vehicles of the same class have the same length
16:39<@planetmaker>and the one-wagon composition for e.g. supplies or mail doesn't work too well then either
16:39<V453000>its not frosch123, once you autoreplace to any 1-tile train, you cant go back to 0.5 tile train without missing oen wagon
16:39<frosch123>and i don't want a small engine to be one tile long :p
16:39<V453000>pm, that can be solved by giving the engine capacity - or to some engines
16:40<V453000>small engine can be articulated with a tender for example
16:40<andythenorth>are they all 0.5 or 1 tile currently?
16:40<@Alberth>just don't care about the 0.5 tile :)
16:40<@planetmaker>I never found it difficult to the the length right with 0.5-tile vehicles
16:41<@planetmaker>it only gets ugly for other lengths
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16:41<frosch123>andythenorth: nuts specifically assembles short wagons to 0.5 tile long articulated units
16:41<frosch123>which is an incredible nice way to make autoreplace work with wagon length
16:41<frosch123>and makes every train grf from before nuts look like shit
16:41<V453000>pm I know, not difficult there, the autoreplace is bigger part ... and clicking 2 times instead of 5 is just convenient
16:41<frosch123>it was the most attonishing feature i noticed when first playing with nuts
16:42<andythenorth>I am +1 to that feature, I have seen it
16:42<andythenorth>maybe I could persuade Dan to do it in in IH
16:42<V453000>I agree, it is one of the greatest ones tbh
16:42<andythenorth>but I think the 10/8 vehicles are here to stay in IH
16:42<V453000>you just need 4/8 wagons
16:42<V453000>LOL 10/8
16:42<V453000>make it 16/8 I do that too
16:43<frosch123>V453000: i am worried about the trailer of animal trains
16:43<andythenorth>20/16 doesn't work
16:43<frosch123>might be smelly
16:43<andythenorth>when do 10s and eights converge?
16:43<V453000>frosch123: just articulate a couple more =D
16:43<@planetmaker>lol, frosch123 !
16:44<@Alberth>andythenorth: 40
16:44<andythenorth>silly andythenorth
16:44<V453000>I looked at the engines, and most of them are double head-able (as most people double head them anyway), or they can be easily adapted to fit 1-tile scheme
16:44<V453000>many of them are 1-tile already in fact
16:45<V453000>making wagons 1-tile (double-articulateld in compare to what there is now), is just for convenience when purchasing but isnt necessary at all
16:45<V453000>engines is more key
16:49<@planetmaker>well. Maybe it would work. Dunno :)
16:50<@planetmaker>newgrf parameter! :P
16:50<V453000>this is way too brutal for a parameter imo :)
16:50<@planetmaker>yeah :)
16:50<V453000>I will add a parameter to have only universal wagons and not the other 3 flatbed/hopper/tanker, that yeah
16:50<V453000>but changing length of trains :D idk
16:53<@DorpsGek>Commit by planetmaker :: r26416 trunk/src/company_gui.cpp (2014-03-18 20:53:34 UTC)
16:53<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5947]: Shares button state was not appropriately updated when switching setting or company (frosch)
16:57<frosch123>@topic set 1 1.4.0-RC1, 1.3.3
16:57-!-DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.4.0-RC1, 1.3.3 | Website: * (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: hg, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices
17:01<@planetmaker>but I really really like the NUTS overview of vehicles
17:01<@planetmaker>and the clear structuring into sections / use cases
17:01<V453000>gameplay system :)
17:02<@planetmaker>not used too often :P
17:02<V453000>btw I made it work with expiring vehicles already
17:02<V453000>only the bottom line of final choice remains in late years
17:02<V453000>the purchase menu started getting a tad fat :D
17:03<V453000>best part is anybody can turn that off :)
17:03<V453000>or even in running game and resetengines
17:03<frosch123>nuts engine overview always makes me think about chemistry :p
17:04<V453000>makes me think about drugs
17:04<V453000>guess that is close
17:05<V453000>I guess there is no way to make articulated engine also double-headed eh :D
17:05<V453000>suppose I could make them wagons simply look as an engine head at the rear, solved
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17:07<V453000>pm I said that to about everybody, draw a scheme before making a newgrf, if it makes sense, it might be useful ... but shit can you do :)
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17:09<dxtr>Can I compile openttd without graphical libraries if I intend to run it on a dedicated server?
17:10<@Alberth>compiling is not problem, running it, is :)
17:10<andythenorth>pretty good this RV set, no?
17:10<dxtr>Alberth: Why?
17:11<@Alberth>or do you mean video drivers with "graphical libraries" ?
17:11<Phreeze>cool set, but all look the same ^^
17:11<@Alberth>if you do, yes you can, there is a null video driver
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17:12<@Alberth>not sure how much you will gain, having a bit of unused video code shouldn't hurt much
17:13<V453000>looks amazing andythenorth
17:14*Alberth ponders about a truckname generator
17:15<frosch123>is that related to the aroai name generator?
17:15<dxtr>Alberth: The issue being that I don't have X or a monitor connected
17:15<dxtr>And therefore I don't have SDL or <insert library name here> installed
17:15<dxtr>And I just assumed I needed SDL
17:16<frosch123>dxtr: configure --enable-dedicated
17:16<dxtr>Yeah I noticed that
17:16<dxtr>Compiling right now
17:16<frosch123>that's as few dependencies as it gets
17:16<frosch123>wrt. graphics libs
17:17<frosch123>but you will need the base graphics nevertheless due to weird histerical reaons
17:17<dxtr>I don't like weird hysterical reasons :/
17:18<frosch123>i believe there is a minmal set "nogfx" or so :)
17:19<@planetmaker>I'm not sure there is :)
17:19<frosch123> <- hmm
17:20<frosch123>there is a branch, no idea whether it works
17:20<@planetmaker>hm :)
17:20<frosch123>but well, it is only disk space
17:21<frosch123>without blitter no spritecache, and thus no actual sprites loaded
17:21<frosch123>only the weird ones :)
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18:05<andythenorth>Alberth: what would your truck name inputs be?
18:06<frosch123>just pick some children series
18:06<frosch123>and same them after the characters
18:06<frosch123>muppets or something
18:06<@Alberth>truck name fragments, just like the town name generator?
18:06<frosch123>or my little pony
18:06<frosch123>little pony may be weird for "trucks" though :p
18:07<+glx>transformers then ;)
18:07<andythenorth>Alberth: so all same graphics?
18:07<andythenorth>just randomise some stats?
18:07<@Alberth>euhm, how are trucknames related to graphics or stats?
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18:19<andythenorth>Alberth: once you've made names, you have to make a grf :)
18:19<andythenorth>it's only a small step from one to the other
18:19<andythenorth>names are the major part of the work ;)
18:20<@Alberth>perhaps do it the other way around? then you have stats to find a fitting name :)
18:22<V453000>if you pick names by songs, you get WAY more names than you could possibly use :D
18:23<V453000>I am most limited by "amount of functionally useful models I thought of"
18:23<V453000>which is about 45 atm :D
18:23<@Alberth>most songs are about love, which is a lovely topic as well
18:24<V453000>I dont have songs about love in nuts.
18:27<@Alberth>being in love is being nuts in a good way :p
18:29<V453000>point taken :D
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18:33<@planetmaker>good night, too
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18:50<Eddi|zuHause><V453000> thoughts about making everything purchaseable in nuts 1-tile long? <-- for short (2 or 3 tiles) trains it may be bad for gameplay if you have to "waste" a whole tile for the engine
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18:53<V453000>Eddi|zuHause: if the engine has thesame amount of capacity as one wagon, it doesnt change a thing :)
18:53<V453000>but thanks :)
18:54<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: then what's the point of wagons?
18:54<V453000>they are nice? :D
18:54<Eddi|zuHause>but they are "realistic" :p
18:54<V453000>still have double the capacity per tile, and have no power
18:54<Eddi|zuHause>i find the idea weird.
18:54<V453000>probably even more than doble, I wont give trains full 1 wagon of capacity, only to some
18:54<V453000>the idea is functionally perfect
18:54<Eddi|zuHause>you mix two things that shouldn't be mixed
18:54<V453000>free autoreplace
18:54<andythenorth>V453000: don't bother with wagons and engines
18:55<andythenorth>just do units
18:55<andythenorth>powered, with cargo capacity
18:55<V453000>andythenorth: ... :)
18:55<V453000>that is functionally less interesting
18:55<V453000>Eddi|zuHause: "shouldnt" says who :P
18:55<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: my software engineering lecture
18:56<V453000>I dont think that has anything to do with train able to load coal? :D
18:56<V453000>andythenorth: :)
18:56<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: it's all software
18:56<V453000>exactly :)
18:57<V453000>so please how is allowing trains to carry cargo (pax trains almost always do that btw) a problem software-wise? :D
18:57<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think "it goes against my core beliefs" will stop you :p
18:57<V453000>yeah, no :D
18:57<Wolf01>'night all
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18:57<V453000>is loading pax/mail/valu/diam/gold against your core belief? :D
18:58<Eddi|zuHause>i think i actually have an engine like that (minus the pax) :p
18:58<V453000>see :D
18:59<V453000>how is coal different
18:59<V453000>just another cargo label software wise
18:59<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: the point was, if you focus on gameplay instead of "realism", why have the difference between wagons and engines at all?
19:00<V453000>because one gives power, one doesnt :)
19:00<V453000>more trains or more wagons
19:00<V453000>more engines*
19:00<V453000>plus it obviously is aesthetically nice
19:01<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think either of us are going to be convinced tonight :p
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19:01<V453000>no, probably not :D ps, can engine have more than 32k power? I am unable to feed nml more than 32k :d
19:01<V453000>but I believe 65k should be max
19:02<Eddi|zuHause>kW or hp?
19:02<V453000>I didnt put that there
19:02<V453000>I just put 40 000 and it broke :D
19:02<V453000>25 000 works
19:03<V453000>how do I add the units to it if it is by a switch?
19:03<V453000>power: magice4_wetrail_power_switch;
19:03<V453000>in graphics {}
19:04<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think you can use units in switches
19:04<V453000>well yeah
19:04<V453000>that I understand
19:05<V453000>is there a way to append it before the ";" in the power definition somehow?
19:05<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, callback results are 15 bits, not 16 bits
19:05<V453000>so the only thing is that I cant define it by callback?
19:05<V453000>so it has to be done in the item property thing?
19:05<Eddi|zuHause>yes, should work as property
19:05<V453000>thanks, will try right away
19:06<V453000>well it compiles :)
19:08<V453000>btw Eddi I will make an exception for you and leave one of the engine classes as 8/8 not 16/8 :P
19:09<Eddi|zuHause>that sounds useful. assuming people generally autoreplace within the same class
19:09<V453000>well it is a logic engine so they cant autoreplace to it :D
19:10<Eddi|zuHause>errr... :p
19:10<V453000>I knew you would appreciate the exception!
19:10<V453000>anyway the power thing works, thanks very much :)
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19:11<Eddi|zuHause>the bill is in the mail :)
19:11<V453000>what does that mean? :D
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---Logclosed Wed Mar 19 00:00:37 2014