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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-03-28

---Logopened Fri Mar 28 00:00:51 2014
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01:15<Flygon>Every guide says how high horsepower is important for passenger trains, and high TE is important for freight....
01:15<Flygon>I have the opposite issue
01:16<Flygon>Heavy freight with decent speed needs the horsepower, and passenger stations are so close together I need high TE locos @_@
01:24<Supercheese>Just buy Deltics, get both
01:24<Supercheese>or double-head
01:26<Flygon>It's only 1907 and I'm triple heading :P
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02:02<Supercheese>If you're still struggling, decrease your weight multiplier
02:07<Flygon>The weight multiplier applies to passenger?
02:36<Supercheese>Yeah, and mail
02:36<Supercheese>passengers don't weigh too much though
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03:12<Pikka>The weight multiplier applies to passenger? <- not as far as I'm aware, unless the UI lies. ;)
03:13<Pikka>it shows, eg, "(x5)" after freight, but not passengers
03:13<Pikka>planetmaker, yes well
03:14<@planetmaker>moin Pikka :)
03:14<Pikka>I had to go and get musa, didn't I.
03:14<Pikka>apparently you can't upload 150mb newgrfs with http. who knew?
03:14<@planetmaker>dunno, maybe? :)
03:14<Pikka>it's on its way now though. :)
03:14<@planetmaker>but yes, for large NewGRFs that seems to be the only way
03:17<@planetmaker>I wonder why we don't have a convenient installer yet :)
03:18<Pikka>for musa?
03:18<@planetmaker>yes
03:18<@planetmaker>or download zip at least
03:18<Pikka>a zip would save at least one step
03:19<@planetmaker>http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/extra/musa.hg/ <-- you can get it here
03:19<@planetmaker>select zip on top row
03:19<Pikka>well there you go
03:20<@planetmaker>but as it's a python script, you'll also need a working python environment
03:20<Pikka>never mind, reinstalling svn wasn't too much work. :P it might even come in handy for something else.
03:20<@planetmaker>that it might, yes :)
03:20<Pikka>it probably won't, seeing as how I've been using this computer for two years now and never had to reinstall it up to now ;)
03:21<@planetmaker>:)
03:22<Pikka>15%!
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03:22<@planetmaker>you'll need a python2
03:22*Pikka is all done, I'm sitting here watching it upload now :)
03:23<Pikka>but yes, I discovered that ;)
03:23<@planetmaker>:)
03:23<@planetmaker>mind, not python3 :)
03:23<Pikka>yes
03:24<Pikka>python 3 wants parenthesese around ("prints"), I learned that this afternoon...
03:50<Pikka>62%!
03:50<Pikka>I bet I screwed something up in the config :)
04:01<@planetmaker>you will find out whether you uploaded $VERSION :D
04:02<@planetmaker>the -d (or --dry-run) option didn't warn me about that. But then $VERSION is perfectly valid :D
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04:13<supermop>i wonder why there is so little australian content
04:14<@planetmaker>20-odd million Australians.
04:14<@planetmaker>7 billion other people.
04:14<@planetmaker>Percentage is probably grossly over-proportional ;)
04:16<Pikka>done! doesn't look broken! thread edited back. ;)
04:16<Pikka>must be dintimes now. bbs :)
04:17<supermop>they do have a disproportionate number of trams on the ground here
04:32<@peter1138>burp
04:36<supermop>downloading a big newgrf...
04:36<supermop>to take some screenshots
04:38<supermop>you weren't kidding this is taking a while
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04:42<andythenorth>Pikka: you could renderise Road Hog for me, then we’d have an RV set in 32bpp
04:42<supermop>download complete!'
04:42<andythenorth>lol
04:42<andythenorth>BAD FEATURES
04:42<supermop>ok now a 64^2 map and screenshots
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04:55<supermop>monorail looks nice
04:55<supermop>not on my EZ 8bpp ogfx tracks though
04:57<@planetmaker>they do fit zBase well
05:03<supermop>what am i supposed to use the planet of the apes thing with? is that 32bpp?
05:03<@planetmaker>yes
05:03<@planetmaker>I use it with zBase, too
05:04<supermop>oh man zbase is even bigger than the trains...
05:04<@planetmaker>yeah :)
05:04<supermop>im going to get some food
05:05<@planetmaker>http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/other_tropic2.png <-- basically it looks better with 32bpp houses
05:05<@planetmaker>oh, you can't use that landscape in arctic (yet)
05:05<@planetmaker>Ghat or Ghats are both in the (sub)tropics ;)
05:06<supermop>Pikka: nice monorail
05:07<supermop>i rain out of space on the 64x64 map to build anything else
05:09<@peter1138>non-aa font? :p
05:09<supermop>59%
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05:33<djura-san>Hi there. I was wondering: it option to save status windows positions and geometry in openttd implemented? I think somebody mentioned that thing last year but i'm unsure
05:34<@planetmaker>size yes, position not
05:35<djura-san>any ideas when it will it be implemented? It would be very nifty to have it.
05:35<@planetmaker>probably when you file a patch
05:35<djura-san>i see.
05:36<@planetmaker>there are many nifty ideas. And time is limited for everyone. Thus everyone implements what oneself thinks is the niftyest thing :)
05:38<djura-san>Yeah figured that out. I hoped that it was on roadmap but it was not. Nothing is on roadmap atm. :\
05:38<andythenorth>he
05:39<@planetmaker>hehe. There is no road map :) Nor ever has been really
05:39<@planetmaker>it's hard to tell volunteers to do this or that :)
05:40<andythenorth>there was a ‘match most of ttdp’ roadmap item no?
05:40<djura-san>Yes, that is true planetmaker
05:40<@planetmaker>There was a 'match all of TTD' road item
05:40<@planetmaker>But that's fulfilled 4 years ago :)
05:41<@planetmaker>and TTDP was basically fulfilled. Even when some people consider the two most important things still missing ;)
05:41<@planetmaker>or three
05:42<@planetmaker>some stupid signals, hacky bridge/tunnel heads. And bug-for-bug-compatibility
05:43<supermop>ok the gap between cars when travelling | or _ is pretty large
05:44<@planetmaker>yup
05:45<maddy_>djura-san: I think I asked about the same thing once, I wanted savegame to remember open windows and their positions
05:45<djura-san>maddy_: i did, yes.
05:45<djura-san>maddy_: you did, sorry
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05:47<maddy_>for me it is just a convenience issue, not like I have lots of windows open at once, so probably not a thing worth of making a patch for
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05:54<maddy_>btw, is there any feature/patch for managing the number of trains per station, so that each station will always have a train waiting for cargo? because you need more when production goes up
05:56<maddy_>I guess just checking the station list, and seeing if anyone has undeliver cargo does the trick pretty well
05:58<@planetmaker>maddy_, just make a proper rail setup with proper orders. Look for self-regulating network in the coop wiki :)
06:00<maddy_>it is interesting, though slightly different what I was thinkign of
06:03<maddy_>I am thinking, for each station in a list, I would like to see say the number of days the station has had 0 trains waiting, and the number of days where there has been > 1...then I will manually add or remove trains, as required
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06:04<maddy_>may be time for a small patch which does that, I just don't want to break savegame compability, so it will be runtime thing
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06:07<Pikka>hello dr andy
06:07<Pikka>et al
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06:13<andythenorth>lo Pikka
06:13<Pikka>hooray!
06:14<Pikka>my first response to pineapple trains is... a bug report which has nothing to do with the grf. :)
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06:20<djura-san>are you using scenario editors to build something? Can i find some scenarios online just to check them out?
06:39<maddy_>I hope you can find some scenarions on the forums, I have never played scenarios myself so I am not sure
06:47<djura-san>i tried yesterday to create small city and one usable industry to test out some things. TO see how would it sustain. Not bad at all
06:47<djura-san>i'm even thinking to use trains
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07:20<Invulner>has anyone succeeded in creating a 3-track railroad where the center track is used for faster trains to overtake slow ones?
07:21<@planetmaker>djura-san, has it ever occured to you, djura-san, that the easiest way to retrieve scenarios might be the ingame online content?
07:21<@planetmaker>also @ maddy_ ^
07:27<maddy_>planetmaker: good point, didn't remember that
07:28<maddy_>Invulner: you might be able to do that with waypoints, force slower trains to use the side lines by making waypoints there
07:32<Invulner>the trains already use the side lines, but for some reason the fast trains tend to wait behind the slow ones instead of taking the middle one, they do overtake occasionally but not all the time
07:33<Invulner>here are the layouts i tried http://imgur.com/a/co313#4cKLOab
07:34<Invulner>the last one has no directional signals at all and trains always overtake, but they also like to "swerve" on the track for the shortest route blocking the track in the process
07:37<@planetmaker>Invulner, you don't want the signals which face the switches
07:38<Invulner>but how will i set the one-way tracks?
07:40<Invulner>or should i put a single one-way signal right before each switch?
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07:43<Invulner>brb
07:44<@planetmaker>Invulner, the one-way track is defined by the one-way exit signal
07:44<@planetmaker>'exit'. The one where the train waits to enter the switch
08:03<djura-san>planetmaker: it did not. I will try someday, maybe there is some tiny map with bare resources to kill time. SInce i cant really revive that kind of town no matter how i try :>
08:06<djura-san>btw, expenses in future almost requires for you to expand your transport network in 100y or else you will loose money. Hm, "inflation" option could help with that right?
08:07<maddy_>I play with inflation off, but shouldn't inflation affect both income and expenses equally?
08:08<V453000>it doesnt
08:08<V453000>expenses grow faster
08:08<V453000>for reason X
08:10<maddy_>that feels unfair :(
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08:36<Invulner>planetmaker: thank you it helped a lot, the trains still do weird things sometimes but at least they move a lot more
08:38<Invulner>or better said, stop much less
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08:46<__ln___>https://image-store.slidesharecdn.com/158bcf50-93c1-11e3-8161-12313d1c8ca8-large.png
08:52<@peter1138>"Kate Bush concert tickets sell out in 15 minutes"
08:52<@peter1138>heh
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09:44<Eddi|zuHause>__ln___: that is many many years old
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09:45<__ln___>:(
09:45<toker>noob question, people are getting map download timeouts on my server, is there anyway to fix that
09:45<toker>it just stops downloading in the middle
09:46<toker>and errors
09:46<Eddi|zuHause>timeouts are set in openttd.cfg
09:47*peter1138 ponders playing with a set witH GOOD FEATURES
09:47<@peter1138>hmm, not played dbsetxl for ages
09:47<toker>does that have to be changed on both serverside and player side?
09:47<Eddi|zuHause>toker: no, only serverside
09:47<toker>ok thx
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10:59<@peter1138>zbase signals... lol
11:07<Eddi|zuHause>never seen them
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11:40<@peter1138>You would if you played with it. They're humongous.
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12:09<@peter1138>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZphHGHiQ5w
12:09<@peter1138>I...
12:09<@peter1138>andythenorth, andythenorth andythenorth andythenorth andythenorth andythenorth andythenorth
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12:16<andythenorth>thanks
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12:32<Eddi|zuHause>wtf?
12:33<Eddi|zuHause>i'd rather listen to my sister singing...
12:38<Eddi|zuHause>seriously, it doesn't even qualify for "so bad it's good"
12:45-!-valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd
12:46<Xaroth|Work>http://i.imgur.com/FZD2HcL.jpg
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13:12<__ln___>Eddi|zuHause: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Orv7eJnBgXc
13:14<Eddi|zuHause>if you ever had a sister, you'd know how annoying their singing is. it doesn't even matter if they're bad or good :p
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13:16<__ln___>i don't have any
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13:57<maddy_>how would I go about adding a new string parameter?
13:58<maddy_>which incidentally is just an integer
13:59<@planetmaker>string parameter to what?
14:00<maddy_>I am adding an efficiency rating to the station list after the name, so I added {NUM} to the string like this
14:00<maddy_>:{YELLOW}{STATION} {STATION_FEATURES} ({NUM})
14:00<@planetmaker>so you're patching OpenTTD itself?
14:00<maddy_>yes
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14:02<@planetmaker>I would suggest to look at how a parameter is set in another place
14:02<maddy_>so how do I populate the value at runtime to {NUM}? I found where DrawString is called, can I just set it via SetDParam?
14:02<@planetmaker>You need to use SetDParam(num, value)
14:02<+glx>it's magic :)
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14:03<maddy_>:)
14:04<maddy_>I am making my 2nd ottd patch, yes, in case you're wondering
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14:04<@planetmaker>build_vehicle_gui.cpp:536 has a nice multi-param example
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14:06<maddy_>I am trying to calculate station efficiency rating based on number of days if was empty, and number of days there were > 1 trains
14:07<maddy_>if the rating is < 0, there were days the station was empty, and if > 0, there were days the station had multiple trains
14:08<@planetmaker>maddy_, that sounds similar to what the actual station rating does...
14:10<maddy_>yeah, you are right, it may be a bit redundant, it is a little different though
14:11<maddy_>by station rating you mean cargo rating?
14:12<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26432 trunk/config.lib (2014-03-28 18:12:21 UTC)
14:12<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: deduplicate code for checking pkg-config dependencies
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14:19<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26433 trunk/config.lib (2014-03-28 18:19:48 UTC)
14:19<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: use pkg-config for libpng as well
14:20<@peter1138>herdygurr
14:28<__ln___>http://www.samsungtechwin.com/product/product_05_01_01.asp
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14:40<Wolf01>ciao o/
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14:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26434 /trunk/src/lang (5 files) (2014-03-28 18:46:02 UTC)
14:46<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
14:46<@DorpsGek>dutch - 2 changes by habell
14:46<@DorpsGek>finnish - 1 changes by jpx_
14:46<@DorpsGek>hebrew - 14 changes by oofnik
14:46<@DorpsGek>korean - 2 changes by telk5093
14:46<@DorpsGek>swedish - 1 changes by d0tt
15:00-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d013378.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
15:18<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26435 trunk/config.lib (2014-03-28 19:18:36 UTC)
15:18<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r26434): linking issue on OS X
15:19<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: s/autorefit/autoreplace/
15:19<Eddi|zuHause>bwhä
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15:22<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: fixed (i hope)
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15:47<maddy_>any tips on why I can't create an iterator? http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3204/
15:48<frosch123>it's a const function
15:48<frosch123>you need to use a const_iterator
15:50<maddy_>thanks
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16:00<maddy_>I added a new setting to StationSettings which is a client setting, but StationSettings in not in ClientSettings, can I add it without probs/other fixes?
16:01<frosch123>i don't think so
16:01<maddy_>or, optionally, I will move it under GUI settings..
16:01<frosch123>game settings exists for current game and new game
16:01<frosch123>client settings only exist once
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16:14<fjb>Moin.
16:15<frosch123>hola
16:15<fjb>Quak frosch123
16:16<Pikka>si
16:17<fjb>Moin Pikka
16:17<Pikka>moin
16:18<@peter1138>wehfguiwehfg
16:19<fjb>Moin peter1138
16:19<Supercheese>I see the simple "Set running costs to 1/4 when speed = 0" is the new "preferred" variable running cost scheme
16:20<Supercheese>seems good to me
16:20<Supercheese>or wait, are variable running costs "BAD FEATURES"? :P
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16:20<frosch123>are they new?
16:21<Pikka>they're probably a WORSE FEATURE the more subtle you try and get with them
16:21<Supercheese>I've been restraining myself from posting in that thread
16:21<Supercheese>I figure nothing good could come from it :\
16:21<frosch123>wasn't it fun?
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16:22<Pikka>nars and ukrs do ridiculously complex things with variable running costs that make absolutely no difference to the way anyone plays the game. ;)
16:22<maddy_>I guess OnTick_Station() is called once per day?
16:22<frosch123>if it says "OnTick", it is probably called once per tick :p
16:23<frosch123>74 ticks make a day
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16:25<Eddi|zuHause>unless you use a daylength patch
16:25<maddy_>nope, stock trunk
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16:39<frosch123>hmm... nuts+pineapple+ironhorse is quite a combo
16:39<frosch123>animals+fruits+mechanics
16:39<frosch123>what could be missing?
16:39<Pikka>coffee and cake
16:40<Pikka>you should also have dbset for maximum realism
16:41<frosch123>nah, i grew tired of that
16:42<frosch123>also vapourware is not that realistic
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16:42<Pikka>shouldn't it be dampfware? ;)
16:43<frosch123>nope, "dampf" is a bit more than "heiße luft"
16:45<andythenorth>frosch123: it’s not vapourware
16:46<Pikka>frosch123, true, but "dampflok" and db set... such puns and sim'lar.
16:46<andythenorth>naughty frosch123
16:46<Pikka>morgen andythenorth
16:46<andythenorth>Pikka: what do you think of steampunk, as a thing?
16:47<fjb>Moin andythenorth
16:47<frosch123>https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSR1dQ_XrNk-XR3-jS4euZF1ei1eozUn-397A2F6R9BEfxBXoD-dA <- andythenorth: needs extra zoom though
16:48<andythenorth>:)
16:51<Pikka>as a thing, not much, although it depends what you have in mind andy.
16:52<andythenorth>I dunno
16:52<andythenorth>I always want to like steampunk
16:52<andythenorth>then I see it, and I don’t like it :P
16:52<andythenorth>but I wondered about some kind of alternative set
16:53<andythenorth>mad max style or something
16:53<andythenorth>or heath robinson
16:53<andythenorth>industries and vehicles and such
16:54<frosch123>a 32bpp industry set which has a big alpha- fog layer over the industries? :p
16:54<frosch123>steam everywhere?
16:54<frosch123>sometimes darker smoke?
16:54*andythenorth looks at diesel punk
16:57<frosch123>i guess i prefer steampunk over diesel- or atompunk
16:58<Pikka>what about punkpunk
16:58<andythenorth>good point
16:58<andythenorth>http://digital-art-gallery.com/oid/101/1600x900_17628_Nfz_w43_3d_automotive_retro_truck_dieselpunk_retrofuturism_picture_image_digital_art.jpg
16:58<andythenorth>http://s.cghub.com/files/Image/269001-270000/269473/501_max.jpg
16:58<frosch123>that could also be part of a animated movie
16:59<frosch123>though it is not red
16:59<frosch123>(the former)
16:59<frosch123>it also looks somwhat ship-ish
17:02<andythenorth>all the *punk stuff isn’t what I’m looking for
17:02<frosch123>the fantasy genre is already covered by nuts
17:03<Pikka>you said it
17:03<frosch123>maybe there is still potential for science fiction
17:03<andythenorth>the stuff I’m thinking of actually mostly exists
17:03<andythenorth>in places like India
17:05<andythenorth>can’t find good pictures
17:05<andythenorth>nvm
17:05<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I am +1 to your BAD FEATURES in default set
17:06<Phreeze>lol
17:06<Phreeze>still in that bad features mood ?
17:06<juzza1>you forgot the uppercase
17:06<Phreeze>people have problems in ottd world nowadays^^
17:07<andythenorth>so does your mum
17:08<frosch123>was your mum offended by the thread?
17:08<andythenorth>she hasn’t seen it yet
17:08<andythenorth>but probably is
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17:19*andythenorth should make newgrf
17:19<LordAro>again?
17:20<juzza1>steampunk? then you need to make a baseset too :P
17:20<Phreeze>madmaxset ;)
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17:33<Pikka>andythenorth should go 32bpp ez :D
17:33<andythenorth>:(
17:34<Pikka>it's fun! and you get to make 200mb grfs
17:34<andythenorth>ha
17:34<andythenorth>I would sooner have a 640x480 resolution :P
17:34<andythenorth>would achieve same result
17:35<andythenorth>is sugar beet a mining cargo?
17:36<Pikka>sugar doesn't come from mines/
17:36<Pikka>?
17:36<Pikka>toyland lies?
17:38<andythenorth>mining truck refitting sugar beet
17:38<andythenorth>silly old ‘bulk’ class
17:38<frosch123>sugar mines exist where the fifth elephant lost his lolly
17:42*andythenorth sleepy time
17:42<andythenorth>bye
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18:48<frosch123>night
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19:38<Wolf01>'night
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---Logclosed Sat Mar 29 00:00:52 2014