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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-03-29

---Logopened Sat Mar 29 00:00:52 2014
00:10-!-Hazzard_AFK is now known as Hazzard
00:24<supermop>do i need to download anything to write an ai or can i just do it in notepad?
00:24<Supercheese>Notepad should work fine from what I understand
00:36<supermop>ok
00:36<supermop>then i just save the files as .nut?
00:41<Supercheese>pretty much
00:41-!-montalvo [~montalvo@ip68-108-148-173.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #openttd
00:42<Supercheese>https://wiki.openttd.org/AI:Main_Page
00:42<Supercheese>and https://wiki.openttd.org/AI:Introduction
00:54-!-Flygon_ is now known as Flygon
00:54<Flygon>Wait, so
00:54<Flygon>Is Slough a suburb of London?
00:54<Flygon>Or an independant town?
00:55<Eddi|zuHause>how would we know?
00:56<Flygon>Aren't some of you British?
00:58<Supercheese>Well, let's see, it's 10 PM here, they're 8 hours ahead...
00:58<Supercheese>that'd be about 6 am
00:59<Supercheese>might wait a bit ;)
00:59<Flygon>Ah, right, right
00:59<Flygon>Sorry
00:59<Flygon>4PM here
01:05<Eddi|zuHause>it's actually 5AM in britain (because europe is not on DST yet)
01:06<Supercheese>I figured it might be off, hence the "about"; stupid daylight savings
01:06<Supercheese>we should just get rid of it
01:06<Supercheese>the GameFAQs poll agreed with me IIRC
01:07<Eddi|zuHause>"random poll on the internet agrees" is surely a strong argument
01:07<Supercheese>huh, actually it didn't
01:07<Supercheese>so nevermind
01:07<Supercheese>was a 50-50 split
01:07<Eddi|zuHause>nobody was ever stopped by facts :p
01:07<Supercheese>true 'nuff
01:09<Eddi|zuHause>or do you think any of the "<incumbent> has created/destroyed X jobs" arguments in elections is based on facts?
01:10<Supercheese>I think no political argument has been based in fact for a very long time, if ever
01:10<Supercheese>the only reliable political candidate metric is voting record, really
01:10<Eddi|zuHause>or let's talk about powells UN speech
01:10<Supercheese>and if they're a newcomer, they have no record
01:12<Eddi|zuHause>or this alleged "fact" that there's something "illegal" happening on crimea (there probably is, but there's no reason to believe that it's more illegal than the rest of the stuff happening)
01:13<Supercheese>I haven't the foggiest idea why our political leaders here think crimea is any of their business
01:14<Eddi|zuHause>it's about natural gas and economical influence.
01:14<Supercheese>there's probably business interests somewhere that are lobbying like mad
01:14<Eddi|zuHause>it's like "we bought this country, so we want the WHOLE country"
01:15<Supercheese>-_-
01:17<Eddi|zuHause>besides, everything that happened since the fall of the iron curtain was the west trying to diminish the influence of russia. that ranges from including poland into NATO to the georgia war
01:17<Eddi|zuHause>now and culminated in taking (and probably funding) sides in the ukrainian maidan revolution
01:18<Eddi|zuHause>by "funding" i mean "CIA black budgets"
01:18<Supercheese>I don't doubt it
01:18<Supercheese>wouldn't surprise me really
01:19<Flygon>Meanwhile in Australia, we're spending millions on lifeboats to deport asylum seekers to Indoneasia
01:19<Flygon>Pretty much the whole world makes no sense
01:20<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: that is certainly better than what italian navy is doing to boats coming from africa
01:20<Flygon>...the Italians figured out a method of breaking human rights laws even further?
01:21<Flygon>What?
01:22<Supercheese>it seems the Italians have been tormenting Africans in one way or another for millennia
01:25<Flygon>So the Italians are like a slightly less evil version of the British?
01:26<Supercheese>Well, the Romans enslaved the British for a rather long time...
01:26<Flygon>The British colonized Australia and ruined it D:
01:28<Supercheese>The phrase "<European country> colonized <other location> and ruined it" is valid nearly everywhere outside of europe...
01:28<Supercheese>at least from certain points of view
01:30<Flygon>Show me any other nation that somehow managed to make the letter D silent despite it being a starting letter
01:30<Flygon>eg. Djerriwarrh
01:30<Flygon>...in fact
01:30<Supercheese>Djinn
01:30<Supercheese>isn't that arabic?
01:30<Flygon>That whole word is not pronounced as literally as it's typped
01:30<Flygon>And, right
01:31<Flygon>I forgot Djinn is a word
01:31<Flygon>Touche
01:31<Eddi|zuHause>i think the latest scandal was actually greek navy, but i can't find the article
01:31<Supercheese>to be fair, they don't use the Latin alphabet
01:31<Supercheese>so Djinn may indeed be the fault of English transliterators
01:32<Flygon>Hm
01:32<Eddi|zuHause>the D in Djinn is not silent :p
01:32<Flygon>Perhaps they wanted to differentiate from the liquor?
01:32<Supercheese>Djinn and tonic
01:32<Supercheese>hah
01:32<Supercheese>sounds like an episode title for a bad sitcom
01:33<Eddi|zuHause>"dj" is probably one letter in arabic anyway
01:33<Flygon>That could've easily been the title of a Big Bang Theory episode
01:33<Flygon>One of the early ones
01:33<Flygon>:B
01:34<supermop>where in australia are you Flygon?
01:34<Flygon>Victoria
01:34<Supercheese>I was thinking one of those bartending sitcoms, Cheers or such
01:34<Flygon>Ah, you're Victorian too!
01:35<Flygon>THE BRITISH RUINED OUR RAIL GAUGE D:
01:35<supermop>huh?
01:35<Eddi|zuHause>no, they ruined OUR rail gauge
01:35<Flygon>You guys use 1600mm too?
01:35<supermop>i am living in victoria but not victorian
01:36<Flygon>supermop: So?
01:36<Flygon>I'm half-New South Welsh
01:36<Eddi|zuHause>germany copied the british rail gauge of 1435mm
01:36<Flygon>Eddi: Australia was suppose to be universally 1600mm
01:36<Eddi|zuHause>some parts of germany tried 1600mm and the dutch tried 2000mm
01:36<Flygon>SA, NSW, and Vic signed an agreement in the 1850s or somesuch
01:36<Eddi|zuHause>but it didn't stick
01:36<Flygon>But the guy engineering lines in NSW died, and got replaced by a Scott
01:37<Flygon>And... okay, so
01:37<Flygon>The Scottish ruined Australian railways :U
01:37<Eddi|zuHause>i think spain uses 1600-ish mm
01:37<Flygon>They use a wider gauge
01:37<Flygon>1688mm or somesuch
01:37<Flygon>Not compatible
01:40<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure you can blame the british for lots of things
01:40<Eddi|zuHause>like driving on left
01:41<Flygon>Pssh
01:41<Flygon>I'd rather the left than the right
01:41<Supercheese>I'd actually like to drive on the left, but that's likely because I'm left-handed
01:42<Supercheese>I'm sure all the right-handed folk prefer it as it is here
01:42<Flygon>I'm left handed, but I drive an auto
01:42<Supercheese>It'd be better if the handbrake were on my left, but eh
01:42<Flygon>Point is
01:43<Flygon>This 1600mm vs 1435mm gauge difference ruined Australia
01:43<Eddi|zuHause>i've only driven an automatic car one single time in my life
01:43<Eddi|zuHause>that was totally confusing
01:43<Supercheese>I've only driven a manual transmission once in my life :(
01:43<Eddi|zuHause>*do not try to step on the clutch!!!*
01:43<supermop>haha
01:44<Supercheese>the last manual car our family owned was sold in 2005
01:44<supermop>i dislike automatics
01:44<supermop>but its all you can rent here
01:44<Supercheese>so I've simply never had occasion to try
01:44<supermop>and i sold my car in 2008
01:44<Supercheese>likely manuals can get superior fuel economy
01:44<Supercheese>what with the simpler transmission
01:44<Supercheese>but they're not very popular here
01:45<supermop>well you can more proactively keep it at a more efficient gear ratio
01:45<Eddi|zuHause>i've driven rental cars, and they were all manual
01:45<Flygon>What I really want
01:45<supermop>i think an automatic with CVT might get better milage but ive never tried one
01:45<Flygon>Is for x-electric cars to become popular
01:45<Flygon>No more transmission, just fixed gear ratio, a generator, and a motor @_@
01:45<Flygon>Less maintainence, too
01:46<supermop>what is the x for?
01:46<Flygon>Diesel, Petrol, Coal, Urainium...
01:46<supermop>i want a car with a pantograph so i can drive it for free under tram wires
01:47<Flygon>Trucks with pantographs do exist
01:47<Flygon>But they're only used for mining, iirc
01:47<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: so in different cities you fry your equipment because they use different voltage?
01:47<Flygon>All Tramways in Australia use 600-750v
01:47<Supercheese>I wonder why ethanol and natural gas aren't used more in automobiles
01:47<Flygon>Unless you somehow break some of Melbourne's level crossings, in which case, cue 1500v
01:48<Supercheese>I figure most gasoline engines would run fine on ethanol, especially with computer-adjusted injection
01:48<supermop>natural gas is harder to store at density
01:48<Supercheese>and you could distill your own fuel if you felt the need
01:48<supermop>but they do exist
01:48<Eddi|zuHause>that is the most common in germany as well, but there do or did exist others, like 2,5kV AC
01:48<Supercheese>well, natural gas is piped to everyone's house
01:48<Eddi|zuHause>not to speak of railway catenary
01:48<Supercheese>all you'd need is a compressor
01:48<Supercheese>fuel up in your garage
01:49<Supercheese>although I suppose a compressor wouldn't exactly be cheap
01:49<supermop>i'd rather do that back home than here
01:49<supermop>gas is expensive here
01:49<Supercheese>well, both gasoline and natural gas, and electricity even, are cheap enough here nobody really cares
01:49<supermop>granted so is gasoline
01:49<Supercheese>:s
01:50<Eddi|zuHause>Supercheese: the problem with ethanol is that there's no useful way yet to produce it that doesn't cut down on agricultural areas for real food
01:51<Supercheese>Well, couldn't you ferment inedible biomass? Like compost?
01:51<Supercheese>microbes could still produce alcohols
01:51<supermop>that gets you methane generally
01:51<Supercheese>I'm not too well-versed on fermentation
01:51<Supercheese>but the hydrocarbons are there at least
01:52<supermop>Supercheese: i think people have tried making ethanol out of grasses and the waste parts of food crops
01:52<supermop>i dont know if there is sufficient scale for that though
01:52<Supercheese>I figure since everyone and their grandma has a lawn, maybe deriving alcohols from grass clippings
01:52<Supercheese>since it's just thrown away anyway
01:52<supermop>would be better to just ban lawns in the US
01:52<Flygon>Bugger ethanol
01:52<Supercheese>even a low-efficiency process would be reclaiming some energy
01:52<Flygon>Just use oil
01:52<Flygon>Diesel compatible oil
01:53<Eddi|zuHause>also, instead of growing crops for ethanol you could just put a solar panel on the field and get like 600 times the energy
01:53<Flygon>Drive up to the local Fish and Chip shop for your tank of oil :U
01:53<supermop>as all the water and energy that goes into keeping one is pretty wasteful
01:53<Supercheese>Well, a lawn is for aesthetics
01:53<Supercheese>solar panels would ruin that
01:53<Flygon>Bugger asthetics. They're ruining our ability to operate as a civilization
01:53<supermop>Flygon: diesel and biodiesel still produce a lot of smog
01:53<Supercheese>also, lawns are dirt cheap (pun intended); solar panels are not
01:54<Flygon>supermop: Then we need to look at methods of consuming that fuel without much omissions
01:54<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure in a few years you can buy solar panels that look like stone or brick to put into your frontyard
01:54<supermop>powerplant burning fryer grease outside of town and everyone has and electric
01:55<Flygon>I was thinking more
01:55<Flygon>In the car itself
01:55<Supercheese>My cousin's truck runs on waste vegetable oil
01:56-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD5AF5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit []
01:56<Supercheese>it's somewhat of a hassle to maintain, but runs well when properly taken care of
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01:56<supermop>ultimately though you are still carrying around your fuel and means of generating heat, plus means of dissipating heat
01:56<Supercheese>and fuel is given away free of charge
01:56<Supercheese>just have to pick it up
01:56<supermop>at least you can minimize the amount of that weight to move with you
01:57<Eddi|zuHause>just use a Mr Fusion
01:57<Supercheese>the fuel is generally contaminated as hell though :\
01:57<Eddi|zuHause>they're supposed to be around by 2015
01:57<supermop>i cant wait 9 months Eddi|zuHause
01:57<Flygon>Supercheese: Can't it be filtered?
01:57<Supercheese>it can, but that's part of the maintenance hassle
01:58<supermop>my delorean is sitting out here running on fumes right now
01:58<supermop>and i cant find a good plutonium source
01:58<Flygon>The BttF Delorean actually ran on petrol
01:58<Supercheese>just go raid some closed hospitals
01:58<Flygon>Only the time machine was powered by plutonium
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01:58<Supercheese>generally they have loads of radioactive stuff
01:58<Supercheese>best to travel to 3rd-world locations
01:59<Supercheese>they usually don't bother properly disposing of them
01:59<supermop>i need a functioning delorean to get there Supercheese
01:59<Supercheese>ah, there's the rub
02:00<supermop>so far its just the bianchi for commuting here
02:00<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: if course i know that, but it would have destroyed the argument :p
02:01<supermop>do you guys still play openttd?
02:01<Supercheese>I did earlier today to test Pineapple trains
02:01<Supercheese>Pikka grfs are always delicious
02:01<supermop>i never get that far into it anymore
02:01<supermop>me too
02:01<supermop>but i have my map with each type here
02:01<supermop>but i don't think any towns are fitting for a screenshot for the thread
02:02<supermop>so kind of done with it
02:02<supermop>interesting decision to not stretch the cars in _ or |
02:02<supermop>big gaps
02:02<Supercheese>indeed
02:03<supermop>seems like the sort of thing ottd can never fix
02:03<Flygon>I'm playing OpenTTD right now :U
02:04<supermop>so i guess when using rendered sprites the only solution is to have a short and long model to render from
02:06<supermop>how do you guys keep the game interesting for you?
02:07<supermop>i feel like everytime a new feature fixes something that always bothered me i'm still left with something that's either frustrating or feels hollow
02:12<Flygon>I try out new real world scenarios
02:12<Flygon>But...
02:12<Flygon>What I've really wanted to do
02:12<Flygon>Is a giant Australia scenario
02:12<Flygon>But I'd always be unhapy
02:12<Flygon>unhappy*
02:13<Flygon>Because even at 8096*8096, areas like urban Melbourne and Sydney would get ruined by scale
02:13<Flygon>And Victoria as a whole ruined thanks to it's irl density
02:15<supermop>i'd like playing a melbourne tram game
02:15<supermop>if trams in openttd were a bit more complex
02:16<Flygon>Well
02:17<Flygon>Could always have Trams done as a railset
02:17<Flygon>Have magic bulldozer
02:17<Flygon>And stuff the tracks between roads
02:17<Flygon>But that still has the problem with having no tracks INSIDE the road
02:17<Flygon>What'd be really nice, is if roads could be laid like railway tracks...
02:17<Flygon>But that means road vehicles being one tile wide, instead of 0.5
02:17<Flygon>And basically changing the entire game
02:18<Supercheese>When I get bored I mod the game :U
02:18<Supercheese>and I end up spending more time writing patches and grfs than playing
02:19<Flygon>I tried to draw sprites to get motivated on getting a Vicrail set booted up or something
02:19<Flygon>But I became all sad because I can't master the style
02:19<Supercheese>Oh, I never draw sprites
02:19<Supercheese>it's too tough
02:19<Supercheese>I either render from models or appropriate existing sprites
02:20<Flygon>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2651992/Art/Other/comengopenttd.png
02:21<Flygon>The middle diagonal carriage looks particulary nasty
02:22<Flygon>But, even then
02:22<Flygon>Getting some sort of a Vicrail set rendered'll never happen...
02:22<Flygon>Post-1950? Sure
02:22<Flygon>But there's a crapload of pre-1950 history, and nothing ever looked quite samey...
02:22<Flygon>Pain to draw up models for
02:22<supermop>ok off to cbd to buy a blanket or something, back later
02:22<Flygon>Be sure to take an umbrella
02:22<Flygon>Have fun!
02:22<supermop>on the 96 tram
02:23<Flygon>Aw man
02:23<Flygon>All I get is a Metro every 40 mins
02:23<Flygon>Sunbury line :|
02:23<supermop>newest trams in melbourne outside my door!
02:23<supermop>big ass e-class
02:23<supermop>sadly not a jag e-type
02:23<Flygon>:P
02:23<supermop>later
02:23<Flygon>Have fun!
02:24<Flygon>(a Melbourne Tramset would be MARVELOUS)
02:24<Flygon>(Trams that can break 80km/h BEFORE 1930!)
02:30<Flygon>Alright, enough building
02:30<Flygon>Time to get to actual work x.x
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03:42<andythenorth>o/
03:42<Pikka>maybe
03:48-!-xmirakulix [~xmirakuli@80-123-59-134.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd
03:48<xmirakulix>Hello, good morning :)
03:49<xmirakulix>Anybode here?
03:51<xmirakulix>I'm having trouble accessing the openttd git repo, just wanted to check if it's just me
03:51<xmirakulix>Seems to be that way for at least a week, I am getting HTTP 502
04:06<xmirakulix>nvm, git://... works for me
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04:17<andythenorth>QUAK
04:17<andythenorth>what noise do pikkas make?
04:18<Pikka>probably
04:19<andythenorth>have you made EZ industry set yet?
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04:22<@planetmaker>moin moin
04:25<xmirakulix>Hi
04:25<xmirakulix>I asked an hour ago, maybe give it another try :)
04:25<xmirakulix>The http://git... repo is unaccessible, returns HTTP 502
04:25<xmirakulix>git:// works though
04:26<xmirakulix>Is that known? If so, maybe there should be a note on the openttd site in the developement section
04:27<@planetmaker>xmirakulix, thx for the notice
04:27<@planetmaker>the web frontends of svn and git are known to sometimes oom in a fashion that it cannot be caught
04:28<xmirakulix>I see, seems to be that way at least a week. Today I tried changing my git config to git:// and was able to pull, so has to be just the frontend as you say
04:29<@planetmaker>the most reliable web frontend seems to be hg.o.o. But if you use the vcs's native protocol, svn://, hg:// or git:// you're usually out-of-trouble
04:30<@planetmaker>they work regardless of those issues
04:30<xmirakulix>Yes, thanks
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04:31<xmirakulix>I am setting up a ottd build environment on my new mac, having trouble with libiconv (again...)
04:31<xmirakulix>Seems I cant remember how I solved the issue last time, can't get it to work right now...
04:32<@planetmaker>uh... I can't recall that I did anything special. I got all my stuff by means of macports
04:32<xmirakulix>Yes, I do too. But I get a whole lot of linker errors
04:32<@planetmaker>but I only have OSX 10.6
04:32<@planetmaker>and it's slow, old and crappy. That laptop is not too joyful anymore
04:33<xmirakulix>Do I want to use a specific gcc version?
04:33<@planetmaker>not that I know of
04:33<xmirakulix>Hmm, quite a lot ramblings about "Undefined symbols for architecture x86_64"
04:33<@planetmaker>the CF uses 4.0, I build it with 4.2
04:33<@planetmaker>but it should work also with anything newer
04:34<@planetmaker>and should also work with clang
04:34<@planetmaker>*should*
04:35<xmirakulix>Hmm, that rang a bell
04:35<xmirakulix>actually I didn't install gcc as of yet...
04:35<@planetmaker>:)
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04:36<xmirakulix>so, maybe clang doesn't do the job...
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05:01<@planetmaker>what's the grace period for unreproducable bugs until we close them?
05:01<__ln___>ten years
05:02<@planetmaker>hm :) That statement can be falsified
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05:15<andythenorth>xmirakulix: which os x?
05:15<xmirakulix>10.9.2
05:16<xmirakulix>Apple LLVM version 5.1 (clang-503.0.38) (based on LLVM 3.4svn)
05:16<andythenorth>https://wiki.openttd.org/Compiling_on_Mac_OS_X
05:16<andythenorth>works for me on 10.9.2
05:16<andythenorth>iirc there might be an instruction in there that I disagree with
05:16<xmirakulix>clang rambles quite a lot, a few warnings during compilation and the linker fails
05:16*andythenorth reads
05:17<andythenorth>hmm
05:17<andythenorth>iirc, the instructions in the wiki are the ones I follow
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05:17<andythenorth>I did have to piss around with a dependency, can’t remember which
05:17<andythenorth>and you need XCode and such
05:18<xmirakulix>Yes, I know
05:18<xmirakulix>iirc, the wiki doesn't mention installing gcc
05:19<andythenorth>I don’t have gcc
05:19<andythenorth>gcc is mapped to clang by XCode
05:19<xmirakulix>which clang version do you use?
05:19<andythenorth>Apple LLVM version 5.1 (clang-503.0.38) (based on LLVM 3.4svn)
05:19<xmirakulix>Mine is Apple LLVM version 5.1 (clang-503.0.38) (based on LLVM 3.4svn)
05:19<xmirakulix>hmmm...
05:20<andythenorth>there is also a FS ticket http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5797
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05:20<andythenorth>which might provide different instructions
05:21<andythenorth>the wiki works for me, and my experience of following multiple sets of instructions is that I end up with broken deps etc :P
05:21<Pikka>andythenorth, perhaps I should do houses next
05:21<@planetmaker>you might still try michi's patch
05:21<Pikka>default towns are silly
05:21<@planetmaker>hm :)
05:21<@planetmaker>'lo bird
05:21<andythenorth>Pikka: but who uses default towns?
05:22<andythenorth>I only use TAI
05:22<Pikka>but
05:22*planetmaker uses default towns a lot
05:22<Pikka>tai is not 32bpp/ez
05:22<xmirakulix>Yes I know that one in FS, but that's not my current problem
05:22<andythenorth>xmirakulix: fwiw, the wiki instructions work on my wife’s mac too, so it’s not a complete fluke. Sorry that’s not much help :)
05:22<andythenorth>Pikka: I am not going to subscribe to your EZ newsletter :)
05:23<andythenorth>unless you render all my sprites for me
05:23<Pikka>psh
05:23<Pikka>well, you model and texture them, I'll render them ;)
05:23<@planetmaker>:D
05:24<xmirakulix>Yes, they help quit a lot - but they are not "complete", as you already mentioned, there are a few things missing, like installing the xcode cmdline tools
05:24<@planetmaker>xmirakulix, it's a wiki. And can only be amended by those who have the possibility to try it :)
05:24<andythenorth>Pikka: can’t we just get them off tubrosquid?
05:24<Pikka>yes, we can't
05:25<xmirakulix>I'll see if I can get it to work for me, maybe I can add some info. But as andythenorth already said that clang does the job on his machine, I'm not sure how comparable my setup here is then...
05:26<andythenorth>Pikka: here we go, a good truck set only needs one vehicle: http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/mining-dump-truck-cat797-3d-model/796658
05:27<Pikka>only 2 million polys? cheap at half the price.
05:27<andythenorth>we’re bitmapping it anyway :P
05:28<Pikka>yes
05:28<andythenorth>also
05:28<andythenorth>if you did a style like this (paper) I might play http://www.turbosquid.com/3d-models/mining-dump-truck-cat797-3d-model/796658
05:28<Pikka>no it isn't
05:29<andythenorth>would look fricking awesome
05:29<andythenorth>the white might get a bit harsh on the eyes
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05:30<andythenorth>we could do paper punk
05:30<Pikka>yes but we can't, because it's the same link :)
05:30<andythenorth>it’s a whole new subculture :P
05:30<andythenorth>oh silly andythenorth
05:30<andythenorth>http://previewcf.turbosquid.com/Preview/2014/02/04__00_02_09/modii3dcaterpillar_wire_03.jpgfd7d532a-3026-488e-be8c-2d771dd9b83aLarge.jpg
05:31<@planetmaker>oh, those models look quite interesting. Graphically and moneywise :P
05:31<Pikka>quite wireframe. what's this "you" business?
05:32<andythenorth>http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/451282/126042221/stock-photo--d-render-of-a-paper-style-a-lot-of-trees-and-people-in-the-bus-126042221.jpg
05:32<andythenorth>http://thumb7.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/451282/128293499/stock-photo--d-render-of-a-paper-style-a-lot-of-trees-and-people-in-the-bus-evening-128293499.jpg
05:32<andythenorth>http://www.yiningkarlli.com/projects/takuarender/images/deloreon.png
05:32<andythenorth>http://techboard.vectorworks.net/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=6683&filename=Bristol%201.png
05:33<andythenorth>Pikka: this ‘you’ business means you do it, and I provide helpful comments
05:34<andythenorth>like ‘is it done yet?'
05:37<andythenorth>can I have a flag for cargos?
05:37<andythenorth>‘farm cargo'
05:37<andythenorth>‘mineral cargo’
05:37<andythenorth>?
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05:42<Wolf01>hi hi
05:45<__ln___>Wolf01: quantos grados habent?
05:45<Wolf01>is that esperanto?
05:46<__ln___>no, it's a mix of spanish, pseudo-latin and who knows what
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05:47<Wolf01>I'm not sure, but it seem to be 17°C right now
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05:48<__ln___>good, so it was understandable nevertheless :)
05:48<Wolf01>:)
05:53<andythenorth>forums have gone boring again :(
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05:54<@planetmaker>new thread: "bad pixels?"
05:55<xmirakulix>just to let you know, seems that I had the FS problem from the start
05:55<andythenorth>planetmaker: “BAD PLAYERS” ? o_O
05:55<xmirakulix>clang does with ./configure LDFLAGS="-stdlib=libstdc++"
05:55<@planetmaker>can you please comment there that it fixes your issues?
05:56<xmirakulix>I ym just checking, Michi's patch didn't seem to work for me
05:56<xmirakulix>Ill post then
05:56<@planetmaker>uh... so not the patch, but you solved it differently?
05:57<andythenorth>hmm
05:57<xmirakulix>One of the comments in the thread
05:57<andythenorth>now I have to do the boring crap, setting all the vehicle stats :P
05:57<@planetmaker>then even more important to comment it there :)
05:57<xmirakulix>Yes ;)
05:57<@planetmaker>andythenorth, use dice :P
05:57<andythenorth>I need someone to make suggestions so I can tell them why they are wrong
05:57<andythenorth>this is how andythenorth works :P
05:57<@planetmaker>haha :)
05:58<andythenorth>shame my marriage doesn’t work that why
05:58<andythenorth>why / way /s
05:58<andythenorth>it’s more the inverse
05:59<@planetmaker>hehe :)
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06:05<xmirakulix>Is there a configure option to get a build.log?
06:05<@planetmaker>for now, enjoy the day :) Bye
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06:13<andythenorth>hmm
06:13<andythenorth>stupid bus
06:13<andythenorth>it’s worse than the equivalent tram
06:13<andythenorth>but Realism
06:29<andythenorth>so the HEQS trams that refit to different capacity
06:29<andythenorth>BAD FEATURE?
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06:47<xmirakulix>Posted my findings on FS
06:47<xmirakulix>Maybe it helps
06:48<xmirakulix>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5797
06:48<andythenorth>thanks :)
06:55*LordAro appears
07:03<andythenorth>GRR
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08:48<xmirakulix>andythenorth, are you there?
08:49<andythenorth>yes
08:50<xmirakulix>You said you had access to a macbook, are you able to verify that this is actually working as intended?
08:50<xmirakulix>(svn r25666) -Feature [FS#4760]: [OSX] Pinch gesture support for zooming. (Based on patch by leecbaker)
08:50<xmirakulix>In FS: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4760
08:50<xmirakulix>As far as I understand, the idea was to support the pinching gesture on the macbook trackpad to zoom the map
08:51<xmirakulix>but as far as I see, the commit to the trunk does not work, if the mousewheel is set to "map scrolling"
08:52<xmirakulix>which of course is the best setting when playing on a trackpad, to zoom the map both ways just by swiping two fingers over the trackpad
08:52<xmirakulix>*not zoom, scroll
08:55<andythenorth>hrm
08:55<andythenorth>the trackpad crap is disabled on my macbook :)
08:56<andythenorth>I think it works on my wife’s though
08:56<andythenorth>I see the kids accidentally zooming the map
08:59<andythenorth>xmirakulix: yeah can’t make pinch-zoom work
09:00<xmirakulix>There is a difference in the patch as it was posted in FS and the implementation that ended up in trunk
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09:01<xmirakulix>the trunk-one simply "turns" the mousewheel when pinching, which is obviously incorrect when the mousewheel is set to be used to scroll the map
09:02<xmirakulix>Soo, what is the correct way to report that bug? Do I comment in the already closed FS Thread?
09:07<andythenorth>not sure :)
09:07<xmirakulix>I'll just post it in the forum, someone will know :)
09:09<@peter1138>I don't think you can comment in a closed bug, so post a new one.
09:09<xmirakulix>Ok, can do - so no forum thread then
09:16<@peter1138>Income £666 :S
09:19<andythenorth>price of the Apple 1
09:22<xmirakulix>Posted in FS: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5958
09:28<Eddi|zuHause>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
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09:56<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I am the project manager
09:57<andythenorth>which is the more pleasing capacity: 72t, 77t, or 80t
09:58<andythenorth>77t is not a power of 2
09:58<andythenorth>neither are 72 ot 8
09:58<andythenorth>80
09:58*andythenorth considers a set where all stats are powers of 2
09:58<rubidium>use primes
09:59<Eddi|zuHause>72 has the most divisors
10:01<andythenorth>I’ll use 72
10:01<andythenorth>stupid numerology :)
10:01<Eddi|zuHause>what makes you think powers of two are the optimum here anyway?
10:02<andythenorth>nothing
10:02<andythenorth>it’s a whim
10:02<andythenorth>why 7 red lines?
10:04<andythenorth>is a 20mph tram actually useful? for 1870-1905?
10:04<andythenorth>equivalent era trains are *so* much faster
10:04<Eddi|zuHause>not my trains
10:05<Eddi|zuHause>freight trains of that era are around 35km/h, and passengers 70km/h
10:06<Eddi|zuHause>the advantage of trams is that you get decent capacity without destroying half the town
10:06<Eddi|zuHause>they don't need speed
10:06*andythenorth looks how fast HEQS trams go
10:07<andythenorth>20 is plenty
10:07<andythenorth>HEQS trams of same era are 15mph
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10:31<fjb>Moin
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11:41<andythenorth>35mph or 36mph?
11:44<maddy_>mph is hard for me, I play with km/h
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12:04<@peter1138>Hmm, ssh responsiveness is not bad for 50% packet loss.
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12:12<SpComb>just send every packet twice
12:13<SpComb>you'll be fine
12:14<@peter1138>hmm, zbase level crossings are a bit bare.
12:16<SpComb>bond0 across two virtual loopback interfaces that you bridge together onto the physical interface
12:16<SpComb>instant packet accelerator
12:17<SpComb>I actually spent one weekend SSH'ing across a link that didn't just duplicate every packet, but four times
12:18<SpComb>it worked fine
12:19<SpComb>a linux box that was set up so that you could plug USB 3G thingies into it, and it would hotplug them up with a L2 VPN to a remote site
12:19<SpComb>and then it would run LACP bonding across all of those L2 VPNs
12:19<SpComb>optimized for latency by just duplicating every packet across all of the 3G links
12:20<SpComb>so you'd get every packet four times in both directions, but hey :)
12:24<Eddi|zuHause>... or you could just increase symbol size so less packages get lost?
12:25<@peter1138>packet != package
12:25<Eddi|zuHause>whatever
12:37<SpComb>Eddi|zuHause: that would just increase the latency
12:37<SpComb>or do you mean radio symbol size?
12:38<Eddi|zuHause>i mean the layer 1 stuff
12:44<SpComb>the idea was that you have multiple different 3G links on different operators
12:51<SpComb>so if one of them has bursty losses or latency you go around it as fast as possible
12:51<SpComb>given, doing that is probably horribly suboptimal if you have large queues on the individual 3G links
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13:03<andythenorth>someone start an interesting forum thread?
13:05<@peter1138>What are GOOD FEATURES?
13:06<andythenorth>shunting
13:06<andythenorth>road types
13:06<andythenorth>state machines
13:06<andythenorth>programmable signals
13:06<andythenorth>these are my favourite features
13:07<andythenorth>articulated ships
13:09<Eddi|zuHause>these are not features, because nobody coded them
13:12<andythenorth>maybe the only good feature is an uncoded feature
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>making assertions about the members of the empty set is always fun
13:15<andythenorth>sorting out vehicle progression is not fun :P
13:15<andythenorth>pax trams and buses overlap, it’s kind of awkward
13:16<andythenorth>give me some schema, because reality is as usual distracting :P
13:16<andythenorth>buses need to appear by about 1920
13:16<andythenorth>but trams need to be available after that date
13:17<Eddi|zuHause>balance for trams: more costly infrastructure but higher capacity
13:17<andythenorth>ok good, I was going for higher cap
13:17<andythenorth>what about speed (and maybe HP)?
13:18<Eddi|zuHause>speed is not important
13:18<Eddi|zuHause>some modern trams might go 80km/h
13:18<andythenorth>not important because...?
13:18<andythenorth>currently buses and trams have ~same speed for same era
13:18<Eddi|zuHause>"realistic" inner city trams go maybe 20km/h
13:19<Eddi|zuHause>but we need roadtypes to solve that
13:19<Eddi|zuHause>so ignore it
13:19<andythenorth>+1
13:19<andythenorth>speed will just match the other vehicles for the era
13:19<andythenorth>mostly I’m pegging road vehicles to pretty similar speeds at any era
13:19<Eddi|zuHause>sounds alright
13:20<andythenorth>I don’t think choosing faster or slower RVs within an era is particularly interesting choice
13:20<andythenorth>I just want ‘bus’ or ‘truck’ and ‘bigger’ or ‘smaller'
13:21<Eddi|zuHause>i was thinking maybe inner city bus (high capacity/low speed) vs. long distance bus (low capacity/high speed)
13:22<andythenorth>yeah, I have a coach and a bus by 1970 or so
13:22<Eddi|zuHause>where trucks are in the middle with medium speed
13:22<andythenorth>hmm
13:22<andythenorth>maybe the reason speed isn’t important is that trains will always be the faster choice
13:22<andythenorth>so if you’re choosing the faster RV, you should choose a train instead :P
13:23<andythenorth>also I dislike the stop-start of faster vehicles stuck behind slower ones
13:24<Eddi|zuHause>not your problem to solve
13:25<Eddi|zuHause>we need a better road traffic simulator for that
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13:41<andythenorth>I somewhat solve it by having lots of similar speed vehicles :P
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14:03<andythenorth>hurgh
14:04<andythenorth>I should give the speeds variable names
14:04<andythenorth>then they would be pegged the same across eras :P
14:04<andythenorth>saves hassle
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14:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26436 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2014-03-29 18:45:20 UTC)
14:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
14:45<@DorpsGek>hungarian - 1 changes by Brumi
14:45<@DorpsGek>polish - 15 changes by Kilian
14:45<@DorpsGek>welsh - 1 changes by kazzie
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15:13<ghur>I have a train that costs money at delivery instead of gaining profit. what are possibly causes for this? I´m using cargo dist and there´s some transfering
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16:00<andythenorth>so has anyone made a GS recently?
16:00*andythenorth needs to play a game to test newgrfs
16:00<andythenorth>I’ve played NCG and SV recently
16:01<andythenorth>I’m not playing any city builder thing
16:03<andythenorth>is Awards GS good?
16:05<andythenorth>@seen zuu
16:05<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: zuu was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 23 hours, 14 minutes, and 0 seconds ago: <Zuu> Though I have heard that the current ISP actually run an a radio link 2-3 km over a lake. :-)
16:05<andythenorth>wonder if I can patch NCG to do more cargos?
16:18<andythenorth>hmm
16:18<andythenorth>shameful GS situtation
16:20<andythenorth>hmm NCG is a teeny bit hard-coded to 3 cargos
16:42*peter1138 hardcodes andythenorth
16:42<@peter1138>hmm
16:42<@peter1138>i have a puppy trying to hardcode my netbook
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17:07<andythenorth>lo Pikka
17:07<andythenorth>peter1138: go on, code a GS ;)
17:07<andythenorth>we should all do one
17:11<Pikka>lo bob
17:11<Pikka>what are the haps in here?
17:13<Pikka>"the only good feature is an uncoded feature". deep.
17:17<andythenorth>it’s that kind of day
17:17<andythenorth>profound
17:17<andythenorth>the profundity knows no depths
17:19<Pikka>www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=70265 look, here's someone who's going to do roadtypes for us!
17:21<andythenorth>\o/
17:21<andythenorth>is it wrong that I have 60t trucks?
17:22<Pikka>yes
17:22<andythenorth>oh well
17:22<Pikka>60t trucks are a sin
17:23<andythenorth>the alternative is smaller capacity progression
17:23<andythenorth>or useless trucks in early game
17:24<andythenorth>40 -> 50 -> 60
17:24<andythenorth>could be 35 -> 40 -> 45
17:25<Pikka>60 is quite a capacity for a single vehicle
17:25<Pikka>compared to typical ttd train car capacities
17:25<Pikka>if they're mining trucks though, why not?
17:25<@planetmaker>evening
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17:26-!-planetmaker is "Ingo von Borstel" on @#openttd +#openttd.dev #openttdcoop.devzone @+#openttdcoop.nightly @+#openttdcoop.stable @+#openttdcoop +#openDune @+#openttdcoop.dev #debian #oftc @+#coopetition #openttdcoop.bots
17:26<Pikka>hello planetmaker
17:26<andythenorth>Pikka: they aren’t mining trucks :(
17:26<andythenorth>I think they’re too big
17:26<andythenorth>my train set has mostly 40t wagons
17:30<andythenorth>smller it is thn
17:35<Pikka>splndid
17:35<andythenorth>indd
17:35<andythenorth>is 45t ok?
17:35*andythenorth thinks so
17:35<Pikka>yes
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18:03<andythenorth>bye
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19:18<Wolf01>'night
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21:56<Eddi|zuHause>THERE IS AN HOUR MISSING!!!
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22:19<Flygon>Is it evil when you're kind of wanting good buses to be available in a game because a railway would be a pita? D:
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23:34<Eddi|zuHause>do not repeat that sentence when andy is around :p
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---Logclosed Sun Mar 30 00:00:54 2014