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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-03-30

---Logopened Sun Mar 30 00:00:54 2014
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01:43<Supercheese>Gouda day
01:46<supermop>no tram riding today
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01:47<supermop>but i will go to a pub named tramway hotel tonight
01:48<supermop>are you in seattle Supercheese?
01:49<Supercheese>it's quite a few hours' drive to seattle
01:52<supermop>the skinny part?
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01:55<supermop>i was not actually aware that the skinny part was inhabited
02:13<supermop>hi andy
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03:58<supermop>pub soon
04:06<supermop>hi planetmaker im off to the tramway hotel pub
04:06<supermop>later all
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06:04<Wolf01>hello o/
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06:05<@planetmaker>hi hi :)
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06:19<@planetmaker>welcome back :) that was a quick pub excursion ;)
06:19<V453000>tramway stuff
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06:25<supermop>pub, then went to the grocery store, then came home and made palomas with a home infused jalapeno tequilla!
06:25<@planetmaker>sounds delicious
06:25<@planetmaker>but short for pub still. Even shorter ;)
06:25<supermop>the tramway hotel pub has a beer called tramway conductor pale ale
06:26<supermop>well it is a sunday night, and my fiancee has wireframing work to get done on her app
06:26<supermop>and i have... nothing much to do
06:27<supermop>other than make drinks
06:29<@peter1138>Temporarily using only one monitor. It feels so constrictive.
06:29<supermop>it's really hard to find metalworkers here
06:29<supermop>i miss my dual monitors
06:29<supermop>last time I had them was circa 2009
06:32<supermop>i think i infused the tequilla too long
06:32<supermop>its very hot
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06:50<supermop>so what all is going on?
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06:51<andythenorth>voyager 1 has drawn a train
06:52<andythenorth>andythenorth is making breakfast
06:52<@planetmaker>bon appetit
06:52<@peter1138>Midday breakfast!
06:53<@peter1138>andythenorth, road types!
06:53<@peter1138>So is there anything cool to go with 10cc?
06:54<@peter1138>I miss wagon speed limits in it though :(
06:55<@peter1138>sse2 vs ssse3?
06:55<@peter1138>I dunno, all this optimisation.
06:56<@peter1138>Yet there's still our own unique version of tearing, which is... vertical.
06:56<supermop>the roadtype i most want to see is fancy terrazzo pavement pedestrian mall with tram tracks,
06:56<supermop>because apparently that exists downtown in this city
06:57<supermop>or teiring?
06:57<dxtr>peter1138: Vertical tearing?
06:57<dxtr>How have you managed to achieve this?
06:58<@peter1138>It's how ottd draws blocks.
06:59<@peter1138>When scrolling the map the parts of the screen update at slightly different times, so it gets a bit... weird.
07:00<dxtr>Maybe I should learn to code gfx :P
07:00<dxtr>I'm one of those pesky people who prefer to do the back-end
07:01<dxtr>Don't ask me why I added a hyphen there
07:04<@peter1138>Heh, weird, I have two towns close to each other: Trunthill and Truntfield.
07:05<V453000>wait wait wait dont you want to say you are playing the actual game?
07:07<@peter1138>Heh, weird, I'm playing the game.
07:07<dxtr>*the* game
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07:11<andythenorth>peter1138: road types?
07:11<andythenorth>are we saying words again? o_O
07:11<andythenorth>dog biscuits!
07:12<V453000>GOOD caboose
07:17<andythenorth>it’s not time for road types yet
07:17<andythenorth>wait until I’ve completely finished an RV set
07:17<andythenorth>then change the spec :P
07:17<andythenorth>that’s the standard way to do it
07:24<LordAro> this guy is breaking GPL, isn't he?
07:28<LordAro> the repo, for those interested
07:29<@planetmaker>feel free to step on his toes :)
07:31*planetmaker is out, grabbing arrows and bow and enjoying the 20Ĉ Sunday afternoon, though
07:32<@peter1138>dxtr, no, not _that_ game.
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07:40<supermop>bedtime in melbourne
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07:48<@peter1138>Skin sofa, skin sofa, urgh urgh urgh urgh urggghh
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09:05<maddy_>oh dear, I am wondering if I can efficiently merge the 4 lines which come from 2 stations into my 2 mainline tracks...or do I have to add a 3rd track to the mainline
09:06<maddy_>the trains come from 2 lines initially to the stations, so in theory they should only need 2 outgoing lines too
09:07<maddy_>my current 4-to-2 merger is somewhat a bottleneck
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09:15<V453000>easy answer
09:16<V453000>expand the parts which are bottleneck
09:16<V453000>if 2 lines arent enough, there you have your answer - you need 3
09:16<V453000>if 2 lines are enough for entrance, 2 should be enough for exit in general, then the merger is probably not doing a good job
09:20<maddy_>is it good/bad idea to first do a 4-to-3 merger, and then later another 3-to-2?
09:20<maddy_>I am looking at openttdcoop wiki for some examples
09:24<V453000>if you can do 3->2 then there is probably no reason to have 3 lines before it - if 2 are only needed
09:24<V453000>as I said
09:24<V453000>expand what breaks/is bottleneck
09:28<V453000>that should do fine
09:28<V453000>well done
09:28<V453000>if you want to learn quicker, just join some of the servers :) people there are helpful
09:29<maddy_>you mean openttdcoop?
09:31<maddy_>thanks, I might try it one day
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12:19<Phreeze>anybody know where to by really thin Torx Bits in europe ?
12:19<Phreeze>like 0.5mm or 1mm ?
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13:22<andythenorth>frosch123: can you think of any quick hacks I could make to SV for variety?
13:22<andythenorth>I need to play a game to test newgrfs, bored of existing GS
13:24<frosch123>nope :p
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14:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26437 trunk/src/lang/belarusian.txt (2014-03-30 18:45:12 UTC)
14:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
14:45<@DorpsGek>belarusian - 1 changes by Wowanxm
14:45<@planetmaker>uh... nightly now one hour later, eh?
14:46<@planetmaker>§$)&!§)? daylight saving time
14:46<__ln___>solar time nightlies \o/
14:49<@planetmaker>MJD? :P
14:49<Wolf01>stupid dst, just move the clock of half an hour and keep that forever
14:50<@planetmaker>one or the other would do. Actually normal time would do well. As then the sun is above horizon the same time before and after noon
14:53<Phreeze>all the "pros" for DST don't work anyway, like light on roads
14:53<@planetmaker>the change from or to dst has a proven detrimental economic effect even
14:53<@planetmaker>due to reduced productivity
14:54<maddy_>I am going to publish my small patch for station 'efficiency rating'
14:54<Phreeze>i slept 5 hours...problem was: party, then dst, then get up early to move somebodys stuff...
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14:57<Wolf01> eh
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15:30<@planetmaker>maddy_, I believe your patch fails badly for a station which provides more than a single cargo
15:31<@planetmaker>thus for every farm. And most stations in towns which also supply mail
15:32<@planetmaker>and don't you think that the existing cargo rating at a station is a much better - and already existing - proxy to whether that cargo needs more attention at that station?
15:33<maddy_>planetmaker: yes, it has some shortcomings, which is why I said it's quick-and-dirty :)
15:33<maddy_>cargo rating has some problems, for my purpose
15:34<@planetmaker>which are...?
15:34<rubidium>agreed planetmaker, we should opt for a time system where noon is exactly between sunrise and sunset. That'll be fun ;)
15:35<@planetmaker>rubidium, on average that's the case at the reference meridian of the time zone ;)
15:35<maddy_>for one, I need to see all the values for all stations at one glance, without opening individual station dialogs
15:36*rubidium will be happy when local time and UTC are the same ;)
15:36<@planetmaker>maddy_, that's a bad argument for inventing yet another measure. It's rather an argument for using it ;)
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15:36<maddy_>secondly, the scale is small and is not precise enough, a cargo rating of 72 might be fully served, but a 68 might need additional train
15:37<maddy_>thirdly, as far as I know, cargo rating only shows if you do not have enough trains, but does not penalize for having too many
15:37<@planetmaker>it does not do that, yes
15:40<maddy_>but I realize this is a very crude way of doing it, and only works for specific game type / play style, which is why I was a bit hesitant about publishing it at all
15:41<@planetmaker>hardly ever wrong with publishing it. Though not everything can go into trunk :)
15:42<@planetmaker>Trunk concepts need to work for a few more cases, I'm afraid
15:43<@planetmaker>not to deter you. If it helps you - that's totally fine.
15:43<@planetmaker>Others also might find it helpful
15:43<@planetmaker>And it at least helps to serve as nice demonstration on how one can get started
15:44<maddy_>that's the purpose, if anything, to see if anyone else needs it (or something similar), it's not intended for trunk really :)
15:45<@planetmaker> <-- I mean... that patch surely is smaller ;)
15:46<@planetmaker>but I don't know. I toyed with other patches before
15:47<maddy_>lost me there
15:49<@planetmaker>all I wanted to say: my first patch in trunk was much smaller ;)
15:49<@planetmaker>and solved much less :)
15:49<frosch123>what did you pay smatz for it? :p
15:50<@planetmaker>possibly a cookie. Or the promise to not bother him for another day or so :P
15:50<frosch123>ah, the usual treat :p
15:50<@planetmaker>yeah ;)
15:50<frosch123>"if you don't solve my problem, i'll ask you again tomorrow" :)
15:50<@planetmaker>:) yeah. We were indeed playing then on the PublicServer with some boats as far as I recall
15:51<@planetmaker>It was a very serious problem ;)
15:51<+glx>pathfinding taking too much ressources ?
15:51<@planetmaker>no, building aqueducts :P
15:51<@planetmaker>taking too much time :)
15:52<maddy_>I also think most players do not care to optimize their train counts to the level I do, so I am not sure this would be 'trunkable' even if cleaned up, fixed, etc
15:52<@planetmaker>important is that yu have fun, maddy_ :)
15:53<frosch123>maddy_: that's no problem. we always make fun of people who have more tracks than trains
15:53<maddy_>no but you introduced an interesting thought for me, should I make quick-and-dirty patches that I use myself, or should I try to make more polished stuff which could be included in trunk one day
15:54<frosch123>always do the one which is most fun for you
15:54<+glx>quick-and-dirty even for personal use only is never a good idea
15:54<frosch123>yeah, but i guess you have to learn that yourself :p
15:54<@planetmaker>well. It can serve the purpose to teach yourself something, glx :)
15:58<maddy_>and the cargo rating itself, that might use some work too :) I am doing the best I can but I got 70 :) damn station guys want fresh new trains and a statue in their town to be happy
15:58<@planetmaker>well, getting 100 is about a thing near-impossible, yes
15:58<frosch123>you just need 200ikmh trains
15:59<@planetmaker>it's a bit weired. The statue thing... well...
15:59<@planetmaker>yeah. have a new maglev train come and pickup things every 3 days
15:59<@planetmaker>and a statue
16:01<@planetmaker>I remember one game on a competitive server where some guy started to annoy me
16:02<@planetmaker>But I knew how to convince him to not compete for the industries I served :)
16:02<@planetmaker>two stations, both better rating then than him ;)
16:02<maddy_>by using the statue trick?
16:03<@planetmaker>on station a road station, transfering the stuff to the 1-tile distant train station ;)
16:03<@planetmaker>that, too. But he had that, too
16:03<@planetmaker>and I autoreplaced the trains every two years or so
16:03<@planetmaker>by equivalently appropriate engines. So they were new
16:05<maddy_>right :)
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16:08<@planetmaker>the thing to really know when competing is that only the two highest-ranked stations get any cargo at all
16:08<@planetmaker>all others go empty
16:08<@planetmaker>that can shut-down services really fast and soundly :)
16:11<maddy_>yeah, detailed knowledge of the game mechanics sure is handy in some situations
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16:17<maddy_>yeah night for me too, bye
16:21<@planetmaker>good night then :)
16:23<Eddi|zuHause>you have too fiew jerrys
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16:30<andythenorth>is it bedtime?
16:32<@planetmaker>lol, Eddi|zuHause :)
16:33<@planetmaker>not sure it's still popular with today's youths
16:33<andythenorth>it is
16:34<andythenorth>due to the violence
16:39<andythenorth>wonder if these trucks are under-powered
16:39*andythenorth needs to play a test game :P
16:39<andythenorth>also good night
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17:14<supermop>coffee time in melbourne
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17:20<FLHerne>tea-and-then-bed time here
17:21<supermop>those sound like conflicting activities
17:24<@planetmaker>without the 'then' they are
17:24<FLHerne>Meh. Given my level of caffeine addiction, one mug won't make the slightest difference :-/
17:25*FLHerne has contemplated switching to coffe instead
17:26<supermop>new roast today
17:26<supermop>finished a bag of rwandan from one roaster yesterday and have opened a new el salvadoran today
17:27<supermop>i spend a lot of money on coffee, but really good tea is even more $$$$
17:27<supermop>so i don't have much accoutrement for it here
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17:30<@planetmaker>tea usually is needed in smaller quantities
17:30<@planetmaker>500g of tea will get you much further than 500g of coffee
17:32<@planetmaker>so from my experience, a good cup of first-grade tea can be made much cheaper still than an equivalently good cup of coffee
17:33<FLHerne>planetmaker: Depends if you're measuring by dry mass or in hot-drink form
17:33<@planetmaker>I'm mostly interested in the latter
17:33<@planetmaker>for 500g you likely can spend more on tea
17:33<@planetmaker>s/for 500g/per unit mass/
17:33<@planetmaker>not sure though :)
17:35<@planetmaker>at home we used to have something like
17:35<@planetmaker>and I still do :)
17:37<FLHerne>I don't usually go for anything fancier than I can buy in the local small food-shop, but I'll concede the superiority of the expensive stuff
17:38*NGC3982 spends much money on coffee, but somehow never finds his favourites among the more expencive sorts.
17:38<@planetmaker>for the everyday tea I have something cheaper, too :)
17:38<@planetmaker>from the common grocery
17:38<supermop>i like yorkshire tea for everyday but it is too $$$ in australia
17:39<supermop>also i don't have a teapot here
17:40<Supercheese>I just buy French Roasts from whatever brand is cheap
17:41<Supercheese>coffee, that is
17:42*NGC3982 loves the Moka brewer.
17:43<@planetmaker>NGC3982, maybe your problem is to use a 'brewer' instead of really hand-making the coffee for good quality :)
17:46<supermop>moka is a great design icon, but yes a simple pour-over drip cone gives you better coffee
17:51<NGC3982>"Better coffee"?
17:51<NGC3982>That is incorrect, since "better coffee" does not exist.
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17:52<NGC3982>Although, a drip cone is nice.
17:52<NGC3982>I also enjoy the siphon, but that get's a + for flare.
17:54<supermop>im thinking of buying a siphon here
17:54<supermop>but i am not sure if that is going to get approval
17:56<NGC3982>Approval? :)
17:58<supermop>its a big visually load thing to be taking up space in the kitchen
17:58<supermop>i might be the designer in the house, but I am certainly not the client
17:59<supermop>hmm i can hear the metro trains from here
17:59<supermop>quiet morning i guess
18:00<NGC3982>Metro? Morning? The US?
18:00<NGC3982>It's exactly midnight around here.
18:00<supermop>i moved to melbourne a couple months ago
18:01<supermop>and in nyc it was certainly a subway, not a metro
18:02<NGC3982>Ah, neat.
18:02<supermop>unless you lived by an elevated line you felt it from your kitchen but did not hear it
18:04<supermop>what you really need is a 2-group la Marzocco machine in your kitchen
18:09<supermop>to be serious though, a grinder helps more than any fancy brewing equipment
18:10<supermop>just being able to grind the beans right before you use them is the single best improvement you can make to home brewed coffee
18:10<Supercheese>Grind, cone filter, pour hot water over
18:10<Supercheese>cheap, easy, and excellent results
18:11<supermop>Supercheese: it can get expensive if you keep trying to get a better and better kettle
18:11<supermop>narrower spout, better handle geometry, more temperature precision
18:11<supermop>later planetmaker
18:13<Supercheese>Heh, well, my parents still use the kettle they bought back in Scotland, 24 years ago
18:13<Supercheese>with the weird UK->US power adaptor
18:13<Supercheese>it's worked very well for them
18:14<supermop>i recently got the bonavita variable temperature gooseneck one here
18:14<supermop>but in the us i used a non-electric kettle with a thermometer stuck in
18:15<supermop>for the price of the bonavita i could have got a cheap siphon
18:15<supermop>but at least the other people in the house can use this for tea or french press too
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---Logclosed Mon Mar 31 00:00:26 2014