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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-04-02

---Logopened Wed Apr 02 00:00:58 2014
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00:42<supermop>can someone look to see if my server is visible? i am not sure if i forwarded ports correctly
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03:25<Flygon>Hmm
03:25<Flygon>OTTD keeps stalling randomly
03:29<Pikka>more flap
03:33<Flygon>I don't flap
03:33<supermop>can either of you guys see my server?
03:33<Flygon>I buzz!
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03:38<@planetmaker>supermop, servers.openttd.org
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03:40<supermop>answer seems to be no
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04:38<supermop>good xkcd today
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05:48<Skasi>Hello. I just downloaded and installed the new 1.4.0 windows7 64bit version of ottd (after uninstalling the old version) and get an error about missing sprites in the base graphics set upon start.
05:49<maddy_>you should update your graphics set, you can do it via the in-game 'online content' choice
05:50<Skasi>Thanks! However, shouldn't a stable come with up-to-date base graphics?
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05:54<maddy_>I think the base game comes with no graphics set at all, you have to choose which one to use (original ttd graphics, or opengfx, or something else)
05:55<Pinkbeast>maddy_: But I think Skasi's contention is (rightly) that it would be more sensible for it to come with a working OGFX
05:56<maddy_>well, the devs can answer to that
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06:05<Flygon>You know you're causing issues with engine limitations when you're building ship docks simply because you're hitting the RV limit...
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07:18<@planetmaker>Flygon, you got more than 5k RV?
07:20<Flygon>I'm getting there
07:20<Flygon>Most of it Trams
07:20<@planetmaker>insane :)
07:20<Flygon>Nah
07:20<Flygon>It's just that this London is a big city
07:20<Flygon>it's 1948
07:20<Flygon>And the passengers can't get a ride x.x
07:21<Flygon>Even with Very Poor ratings, I'm still getting overload
07:21<Flygon>The other issue is Tram Station clogging tho :(
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07:51<supermop>How tall should a tram be?
07:52<supermop>32Lx10Wx12H seems too stubby
07:52<@planetmaker>usual widths is 8...
07:57<Skasi>where I live older trams are around 2 times as high as they are width
07:57<Flygon>What's .at?
07:57<Flygon>Ah, Austria
07:57<Flygon>You guys use NG Trams, right?
07:58<Skasi>oh look, the first picture on wikipedia's tram article features the tram I was talking about
07:58<Flygon>Ah, nope. SG!
07:58<Skasi>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tram all the way to the right
07:58<Flygon>Those're VERY skinny SG Trams
07:58<Flygon>I'm used to Trams in my area being very fat
07:59<Skasi>what's ng and sg?
07:59<Flygon>http://www.reocities.com/professoryao/B1-2001.jpg Old photo
08:00<Skasi>hah thats how the buses look :)
08:00<Flygon>The whole box shape thing (and practically filling up the entire loading gauge) might just make it seem fat though
08:01<Flygon>I'm a tad surprised that there's no Melbourne Tram set... but on the other hand
08:01<Flygon>Our Trams are very boring
08:01<Skasi>hongkong has funny trams too http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:HKtram.JPG
08:02<Flygon>Shame nowhere else took DD Trams seriously :(
08:03<Flygon>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/Hobart_trams_and_trolley_bus.jpg Australia used to have DD Tras
08:03<Flygon>But only really in Hobart, and other very isolated networks :(
08:04<Skasi>it probably all depends on population density and time of introduction, with non-planned trams being skinnier than those of cities that were designed for them in the first place
08:04<Flygon>(note how they practically built a standard Tram boddy and basically went "Eh... nuff room for some seats on the roof"
08:04<Skasi>hehe yeah
08:05<Skasi>I guess theyre rare cause of winter
08:05<Skasi>take hongkong and australia, there's not too much snow in either of them I think?
08:05<Flygon>Yeah
08:05<Flygon>Only snows in Victoria, Tasmania, and South-East NSW
08:06<Skasi>though, hongkong dds are closed so that wouldnt be a big problem hmm
08:06<Flygon>(Tasmania has Hobart, Victoria has Melbourne (but it only snows in East Victoria... sometimes North-East), New South Wales has Sydney)
08:06<Skasi>well at least the versions linked
08:06<Flygon>What's freaky about Hobart's former DD network
08:06<Flygon>Is that it was DESIGNED for DD Trams
08:07<Flygon>...on a Narrow Gauge network
08:07<Flygon>:D
08:07<Flygon>http://tdu.to/a9581/Hobart_Tram_49_2.jpg Single bogie DD NG Trams
08:07<Flygon>Insane!
08:07<Skasi>"buy security bonds" haha
08:07<Flygon>(that incident only happened because all the Trams brakes failed)
08:07<Flygon>(it was during WWII)
08:08<Skasi>"buy secure-tram bonds"
08:08<Flygon>(it was going downhill... only thing they could do was just ding the bell loudly >_<)
08:08<Skasi>"help keep prices down - and while at it, help keep trams on rails too!"
08:09<Flygon>But, yeah
08:09<Flygon>Sadly, Hobart tore down their network by the early 60s :(
08:09<Flygon>As did Sydney (Sydney had the world's largest individual network)
08:10<Flygon>Sydney's network was amazing... so sad. The residents were rightfully VERY angry with how it was torn down, too.
08:12<Flygon>Victoria also got hit hard... Geelong's network was completely ripped down, Ballarat barely retained a small part of one line, Bendigo is very lucky to have what little network it has, and Melbourne's very very lucky to've actually been constructing new parts of network in the 50s and 60s...
08:12<Flygon>But Melbourne also had some of the most boring rollingstock
08:12<Flygon>Hobart had the DDs, Adelaide had the EMU Trams, Sydney... er, well, they were also "Boring but Practical", but the R-class was a pretty nice design
08:13<Flygon>But one thing that annoys me with OTTD Tram sets
08:13<Flygon>Is that they don't break 40-50km/h in the 30s to 50s
08:13<Flygon>irl Melbourne, Sydney, and Adelaide? Trams breaking 80km/h in service.
08:14<Flygon>(one neat PCC/W-class Tram hybrid in Melbourne even reportedly broke 110km/h in the 1950s during testing! Not bad for what boiled down to a PCC car that's basically half-veryoutdated equipment!)
08:14<Flygon>(I say reportedly, though. There's no official record)
08:15<Flygon>Sorry for the foaming x.x
08:15<Flygon>Just always been interested in the history of Tram transport
08:16<Flygon>Really the real first method of going around that didn't involve being stuck behind a slow horse-and-cart
08:16<Flygon>In urban areas, that is
08:16<Flygon>A train can't just be plopped on the street and go 'round like it's no deal... you gotta be minaturized and subtle!
08:21<Skasi>yuppers
08:21<Skasi>small things are always cute :)
08:27<Flygon>Though, Melbourne's Cable Trams are almost adorably tiny
08:28<Flygon>http://www.cable-car-guy.com/images/mel_cable_dummy_and_trailer_at_bylands_tram_museum_200602.jpg It's tiiiiiny
08:29<Flygon>The trailer too!
08:29<Flygon>They're like boxes, thanks to their width!
08:31<supermop>Flygon: i asked because i am putting a basic thing together over the next wee
08:31<supermop>k
08:31<Flygon>x3 Sorry
08:31<Flygon>I just kinda blabber on easy
08:31<supermop>aim is just what is rolling right now
08:32<supermop>with past models and other liveries as stretch goals/ for later
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08:33<supermop>besides W class can get you started in the 20s, with a good complement all the way up through E class today
08:33<supermop>so a functional set can be made with only current stock
08:34<Flygon>Ah, I didn't know you were Victorian
08:34<supermop>Z class seem to be the longest non-articulated models to have run so thaats my benchmark
08:34<Flygon>Regardless of the specific type, I know a lot of Trams, not just in Australia, could easily run over 80km/h, even before 1920
08:34<Flygon>Er, 60km/h
08:34<Celestar>goodday
08:34<Flygon>8 was a typo x.x
08:34<supermop>i am not, just moved here two months ago
08:34<Flygon>Ey, mate. You're Victorian enough.
08:36<supermop>so goal for tonight is to decide whether the z class at 16m is 8/8 or 10/8
08:36<Flygon>That's a bloody good question
08:36<supermop>and then to decide if 15m trams are drawn as essentially the same length or noticably shorter
08:37<Flygon>Well
08:37<Flygon>If you play at close zoom all the time like I do
08:37<Flygon>Due to network refining
08:37<supermop>if the trams are cartoonish and stubby (which they must be to some degree) then maybe W, Z, and A are all the same
08:37<Flygon>1px is noticable
08:38<supermop>but if i try to be a bit more detailed, i'd like to have the scale difference
08:38<Flygon>Hmm...
08:39<Flygon>Well, it's best I try not to answer. I'm not very involved with GRF work x:
08:39<supermop>10/8 is a bit more complex to code but doable
08:40*Flygon nod
08:40<supermop>but long skinny trams just might look bad on the openttd tramways and corners
08:40<Flygon>That too x.x
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09:46<supermop>i wonder whhat height of pantograph/trolley pole should be
09:48<V453000>666
09:48<Flygon>Have it vary with the height of the overhead wire
09:48<Flygon>:B
09:49<Flygon>Seriously though, might just be easiest to copy from that eGTVRS set (or however it's acronymed)
09:58<supermop>ok bed
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10:08<@planetmaker>eGRVTS = Extended Generic Road Vehicle and Tram Set :)
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11:46<__ln___>http://hkkl.fi/~hekkuli/spora/20140402_003.jpg
12:09<@peter1138>Errr... what?
12:11<__ln___>because http://hkkl.fi/~hekkuli/spora/20140402_005.jpg
12:12<__ln___>they say it was empty and no one was hurt
12:16<Pinkbeast>Bet that taxi driver browned himself tho' ;-)
12:17<__ln___>bet that taxi wasn't there when it happened :)
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12:26<Eddi|zuHause>wtf? how fast was this thing going around that corner? and why didn't it tear down the catenary?
12:26<Pinkbeast>The pantograph just presses up against the wire, surely, no reason it should tear it down
12:27<frosch123>maybe it was hit by a running unicorn
12:27<Eddi|zuHause>Pinkbeast: it leaves the path of the catenary, then the pantograph rises, and by the time it passes the catenary of the neighbouring track... BOOM
12:29<Pinkbeast>But the panto's got edges that curve down so if it hasn't had time to rise too far, it can scoop up the next wire, maybe?
12:31<Pikka>pretty good parking job though.
12:31<Pinkbeast>Definitely, if you're playing Grand Theft Strassenbahn
12:35<rubidium>it also depends on the height of the catenary and the maximum height the pantograph can rise to
12:36*rubidium has seen the images of a failing pantograph height limiter at a small powerless section
12:36<Eddi|zuHause>well modern pantographs certainly have detection mechanisms for when the catenary is gone (instead of slowly changing height), but the question is how fast they react
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12:37<Eddi|zuHause>and surely, a few cm more or less height make a difference
12:38<rubidium>in this case it's more likely that the catenary's height is close to the maximum reach of the panto, so the angled edges push the wire up
12:39<rubidium>on the other hand...
12:39<rubidium>looks like the panto was weaker than the wire as it seems to have snapped
12:40<Pinkbeast>I wondered if it had just been lowered after the comedy ensued.
12:41<Eddi|zuHause>a properly lowered pantograph would not look like this
12:47<Eddi|zuHause>"the april's fools joke of netzpolitik.org was cancelled, because the real NSA news over the past years were already too obscure"
12:48<Eddi|zuHause>"they fear that any joke they would make about it, could be exceeded by reality soon"
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26441 trunk/src/lang/norwegian_bokmal.txt (2014-04-02 17:45:12 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>norwegian_bokmal - 2 changes by kristoffer_hh
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14:07<andythenorth>o/
14:07<V453000>hy
14:09<andythenorth>why acceleration setting?
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14:12<falkooo>hi i played loang ago the 0.7 and sa 1.4 is out is there a list of changes in the last years?
14:12<V453000>acceleration setting?
14:13<andythenorth>V453000: forums
14:13<V453000>the original/realistic shit?
14:14<V453000>me doesnt see it
14:16<frosch123>falkooo: https://wiki.openttd.org/OpenTTD_Release_History
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14:22<andythenorth>big truck http://www.commercialmotor.com/big-lorry-blog/making-moves-in-mining-biglorryblog-spots-this-great-you-tube-video
14:22<andythenorth>225t payload
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14:27<falkooo>thx
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14:38-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
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14:55<andythenorth>let’s make things!
15:01<Zuu>make things
15:02<Zuu>:-)
15:02<andythenorth>Zuu: make GS!
15:02*andythenorth had a look at GS
15:02<andythenorth>looks like real programming
15:03<andythenorth>not andythenorth programming
15:05<andythenorth>Zuu: can I have a NCG with 6 cargos? o_O
15:06<Zuu>It needs 3 more medal names and some for loops are probably hard coded at 3 medals.
15:06<andythenorth>I had a look myself, and it did look hard coded in some places
15:09<andythenorth>Gold, silver, bronze, brass, steel, tin
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15:18<frosch123>usually it is extended on the other end :)
15:18<frosch123>bronce, silver, gold, diamons, platinum, master, grand master
15:18<frosch123>noone wants to be copper or tin :p
15:19<frosch123>inflation makes everyone happy
15:20<andythenorth>ha
15:20<andythenorth>‘everyone must be a winner'
15:20*andythenorth disagrees
15:27<Zuu>Hmm, I got some local non-committed/published NoCarGoal changes. They seem to mainly add colours to strings and alter wordings regarding end year.
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15:38<Zuu>No idea if those changes are wanted or work :-)
15:38<andythenorth>he
15:39<andythenorth>I love finding old non-committed changes :)
15:39<andythenorth>I always forget what they were for
15:41<LordAro>procrastination: http://imgur.com/iAZyaFJ
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15:58<frosch123>hmm, i thought we changes the industry-tile-is-clear check years ago, so it checks for water tiles for water industries, and land tile for land industries
16:00<andythenorth>I might have read it wrong
16:00<andythenorth>it has the expected result for water
16:00<frosch123>well, oilrigs will break if you make them also check for clear land :p
16:00<frosch123>the whole point of the check is to make them not spawn near coast or so
16:01<frosch123>anyway, should i bother grepping my logs?
16:01<frosch123>ah!
16:02<frosch123>andythenorth: you wrote a patch for it :)
16:02<andythenorth>did I?
16:03<frosch123>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=47090&p=853946#p853946
16:04<frosch123>http://www.tt-foundry.com/misc/land_special_check_tile
16:05<andythenorth>oh I did :o
16:05<frosch123>only 4 years ago :p
16:05<andythenorth>I wrote a patch \o/
16:05<andythenorth>and then we solved it without a patch :)
16:06<frosch123>so, the conclusion was to add separate checks for water/land, instead of making i depend on the industry-on-water flag
16:06<frosch123>+t
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16:16<frosch123>night
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16:17<juzza1>does nmlc crop 32bpp images?
16:18<juzza1>and is the cropping just per the image coordinates from realsprites, or is it more "intelligent" (ie. find smallest rectangle around sprite and adjust offsets)
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16:36<andythenorth>hmm
16:36<andythenorth>car transporter trucks
16:36<andythenorth>bit specialist
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17:07<@planetmaker>g'evening
17:07<@planetmaker><andythenorth> I love finding old non-committed changes :)
17:07<@planetmaker><andythenorth> I always forget what they were for <-- hehe, I know that, too :P
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17:15<andythenorth>bye
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18:55<NGC3982>Evening
18:55<NGC3982>I hate locale with every fiber of my body.
18:59<mg_>god, this newgrf stuff is complicated to figure out which gfx to get (i haven't played openttd yet, only original ttd). after 2 hours of forum research i think i'm set :-)
18:59<NGC3982>That sounds nice.
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---Logclosed Thu Apr 03 00:01:00 2014