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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-04-04

---Logopened Fri Apr 04 00:00:01 2014
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05:03<roboboy>I was wondering if it is considered good or bad practise to store escape sequences in strings stored in a database?
05:07<maddy_>for example?
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05:16<roboboy>I am storing some strings that will be placed as text on labels in Windows and the Windows API treats & specially to denote the keyboard shortcut for that control, so would it be bad to store & as && in the string?
05:24<@planetmaker>roboboy, that depends on how those strings are treated internally, whether you work cross-platform
05:24<@planetmaker>generally that does not sound like a good idea
05:25<@planetmaker>if working cross-platform, I'd rather I'd try introduce pragmas which are replaced by OS-specific stuff then and keep OS-specific stuff out of strings
05:25<@planetmaker>but this got nothing to do with openttd, GS or NewGRFs ,or?
05:25<roboboy>ok, so I should do it in code pending further investigation as I am using .Net
05:26<roboboy>This channel usually has stuff other than OpenTTD and I have seen general programmin discusion in here before. I shall not ask OT stuff again
05:27<@planetmaker>it's alright when all quiet, I guess. But context makes a difference for an answer
05:29<@planetmaker>where off-topic reminds me... I wanted to thank __ln__ for the metorite movie yesterday :D
05:42<__ln__>you're welcome
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05:50<maddy_>roboboy: I think generally it is best to keep database strings as "plain text" so they are more generic, and then handle escaping in code before displaying them
05:51<maddy_>I guess either way work, as long as you are consistent, and don't end up with 2 mixed practices
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07:45<supermop>whats going on?
07:53<maddy_>not much, at work
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08:37<@peter1138>Doing hg update, it popped up gvimdiff to get a merge.
08:38<@peter1138>What do I do? :S
08:39<@planetmaker>edit files such that the merge is ok?
08:39<@planetmaker>you likely had a modified state of the repo. And it tries to merge your modifications with the new revision
08:40<@planetmaker>if you want to throw away your edits, then hg up -C -rXXX
08:40<@peter1138>Yes, I know why, but it's not clear what to do, like save or whatever.
08:40<@planetmaker>depends on what you want
08:41<@planetmaker>so you're asking about introduction to gvimdiff?
08:41<@planetmaker>I don't like it either :P
08:41<@planetmaker>but the usual vi shortcuts work
08:41<@planetmaker>but I don't know how to switch windows
08:42<@peter1138>It's gvimdiff so I can cheat and use the mouse :)
08:43<@planetmaker>for the future, you might want to edit your ~/.hgrc and add in the [ui] section like
08:43<@planetmaker>merge = kdiff3
08:43<@planetmaker>if you prefer kdiff3
08:44<@planetmaker>I find that much easier to use
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10:51<@peter1138>I maded a patch!
10:52<@peter1138>Bit late for 1.4 eh
11:03<LordAro>emergency hotfix!
11:10<Xaroth|Work>oh boy
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11:40<Xaroth|Work>i've seen that link fly by a few times today
11:40<@planetmaker>hm, nice to see issues dealt with
11:40<@planetmaker>the issue has been edited / partially removed meanwhile, though
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12:11<ZirconiumX>Hello everyone. Any Linux gurus around?
12:12<ZirconiumX>I can't play any MIDI music on 1.4.0
12:12<ZirconiumX>I've fluidsynth set up, and have tested it to make sure it plays music
12:14<ZirconiumX>I do get the vehicle sounds though, so it isn't like fluidsynth is hogging alsa.
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12:35*ZirconiumX clears throat
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12:44<@peter1138>Is ottd hogging alsa? heh
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12:44<ZirconiumX>Seems not
12:46<ZirconiumX>Nope. I can play music using fluidsynth and hear vehicle sounds from OpenTTD
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12:54<@peter1138>Hmm, works for me.
12:55<ZirconiumX>You using fluidsynth or timidity?
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12:57<@peter1138>Playing via pmidi, with ALSA_OUTPUT_PORTS set beforehand.
12:58<ZirconiumX>Portmidi. Hmmm
12:59<ZirconiumX>What could be different between our systems? I'm using Arch Linux.
13:01<ZirconiumX>So works for you?
13:02<ZirconiumX>Don't have a emu10k sound card
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13:09<ZirconiumX>3 years later - $ ALSA_OUTPUT_PORTS=128:0 openttd -m extmidi:cmd=aplaymidi
13:09<ZirconiumX>Now I have an organ playing continuously in the background, but at least I have music
13:14<ZirconiumX>After installing pmidi, I have something that works.
13:14<ZirconiumX>Still, a workaround like that indicates a bug or two.
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13:17<@peter1138>Workaround? How was it set up before?
13:18<ZirconiumX>I was just using the default OpenTTD stuff, which appears to be broken on Linux (but works on windows...)
13:19<ZirconiumX>I had to manually perform $ ALSA_OUTPUT_PORTS=128:0 openttd -m extmidi:cmd=pmidi
13:19<@peter1138>If you don't specify anything then it tries to use timidity.
13:20<ZirconiumX>That makes sense
13:20<ZirconiumX>Since I am using fluidsynth, it failed
13:20<@peter1138>If you don't have timidity installed, it wouldn't work.
13:21<ZirconiumX>If only I considered my C++ skills up to scratch
13:21<ZirconiumX>Then I'd fix that myself.
13:21<@peter1138>Fix what?
13:21<@peter1138>It's all configurable, but the default command is just "timidity" if none is specified.
13:22<ZirconiumX>maybe we could add that to openttd.cfg instead of having to specify it on the command line (which means PCManFM will launch OpenTTD without any MIDI support)
13:23<@peter1138>You can add it to openttd.cfg
13:23<@peter1138>musicdriver = "extmidi:cmd=blah"
13:23<@peter1138>No idea what PCManFM is.
13:24<ZirconiumX>The file manager for LXDE
13:27<@peter1138>People launch programs from a file manager now?
13:27<ZirconiumX>*cough* Ubuntu *cough*
13:28<@peter1138>There are menus and things...
13:29<ZirconiumX>I take it you don't use Unity, then...
13:29<@peter1138>I don't use Ubuntu.
13:29<@peter1138>But Unity uses the .desktop files, no?
13:29<ZirconiumX>Think so. Not sure.
13:32<ZirconiumX>Is there any way to tell OpenTTD to run a command on startup?
13:34<@planetmaker>ZirconiumX, but even if you launch from file manager - editing the openttd.cfg gives the appropriate effect?
13:34<ZirconiumX>It runs pmidi without telling ALSA where to put the MIDI
13:34<@planetmaker>you edited the correct cfg file then?
13:35<ZirconiumX>$ ALSA_OUTPUT_PORTS=128:0 openttd -m extmidi:cmd=pmidi <-- works fine
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13:36<ZirconiumX>Using the musicdriver setting in openttd.cfg removes the -m bit, but doesn't change the ALSA_OUT_PORTS=128:0 part.
13:36<ZirconiumX>(or otherwise I haven't found out how to add the ALSA_OUT_PORTS bit)
13:36<@peter1138>Yeah, arguments never got added to extmidi so you can't do cmd=pmidi -p 128:0
13:37<ZirconiumX>That sucks.
13:37<+glx>then just run a .sh instead the exe
13:38<@peter1138>Yup, make a wrapper script.
13:38<+glx>like .bat on msdos/windows in the old time
13:41<ZirconiumX>Looks like I can't write shell scripts very well...
13:43<@planetmaker>openttd parameters you need to put
13:43<@planetmaker>(done is not part of script anymore)
13:44<ZirconiumX>Well, having realised my mistake , it vaguely works
13:45<ZirconiumX>I'm being deafened by the hanging pmidi processes having not done noteoffs at kill time
13:45<ZirconiumX>But it works
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26444 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2014-04-04 17:45:23 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>simplified_chinese - 5 changes by siu238X, xiangyigao
13:45<@DorpsGek>traditional_chinese - 2 changes by siu238X
13:45<@DorpsGek>czech - 1 changes by marek995
13:45<@DorpsGek>german - 1 changes by Jogio
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13:47<ZirconiumX>Well, thank you all very much!
13:54<LordAro>good lord, it's a ZirconiumX
13:54<ZirconiumX>It's the Lord himself
13:54<@peter1138>ZirconiumX, use aplaymidi then, I think that does note offs.
13:55<@peter1138>Not sure why pmidi doesn't, or why the midi files don't have them at the end.
13:55<LordAro>i've had issues getting ottd to play midi music in the past
13:55<LordAro>can't remember if i ever resolved them
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13:57<ZirconiumX>pmidi will play the song regardless of the stop button.
13:57<ZirconiumX>aplaymidi will stop playing any more notes after the stop button. No noteoffs though
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13:59<@planetmaker>quak :)
14:00<ZirconiumX>planetmaker is now a duck, apparently.
14:00<LordAro>quak frosch123
14:01<ZirconiumX>LordAro too?!
14:01<mg_>hi. i downloaded 32bit z-base graphics. it looks good but i can't find any newgrf to replace default ground tiles (green terrain + trees). is there some magic newgrf that i'm missing?
14:01<LordAro>ZirconiumX, heh, you must be new here :p
14:01<@planetmaker>yeah :P
14:01<ZirconiumX>I'm not new, I just haven't been here in 3 odd years.
14:01<@planetmaker>mg_, you mean 32bpp terrain NewGRFs to replace zBase' terrain tiles?
14:01<LordAro>mg_, zbase should do that magically
14:02<LordAro>mg_, example screenshot?
14:02<@planetmaker>if you have 8bpp terrain tiles, then you use a NewGRF which replaces ground tiles
14:02<@planetmaker>or you haven't yet activated zBase :)
14:02<mg_>i mean, i have zBase graphics set
14:02<@planetmaker>activated in game options?
14:02<mg_>buildings seem fine
14:03<mg_>coal mines, power stations etc are ok
14:03<mg_>but "grass" is not, and trees
14:03<@planetmaker>and no NewGRFs active? (screenshot using ctrl+s, upload to
14:03<ZirconiumX>are giant alien spaceships
14:03<ZirconiumX>Dammit planetmaker, you ninja'd me.
14:03<mg_>about 30 newgrfs active
14:04<@planetmaker>zBase provides 32bpp graphics for all tiles. So if you have no 32bpp for some, that's one of your NewGRFs
14:04<mg_>planetmaker: i see, so i will try again with disabled newgrfs
14:05<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: it's weird how they're all like "it's a different language, copyright doesn't apply"... at least german copyright explicitly mentions "translating to other languages" as being covered
14:05<mg_>planetmaker: it works now :P
14:06<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, I'm sure it's under most legislations. It's still a derivative after all
14:06<@planetmaker>you're welcome
14:08<Eddi|zuHause>people having strong opinions on things they don't fully understand is one of the most dangerous things in this world
14:09<NGC3982>It's very human, though.
14:09<ZirconiumX>Eddi|zuHause - sadly that's part of human nature
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14:42<heffer>planetmaker: opengfx 0.5.0 somehow broke the make check target
14:46<maddy_>if there is one thing I love about openttd is that it almost never crashes (not even with nightly builds)
14:47<ZirconiumX>"almost never"
14:47<+glx><@planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, I'm sure it's under most legislations. It's still a derivative after all <-- even if not derivative, there's at least copyright on the translator work usually (plus the original rights holder who allowed the translation)
14:47<maddy_>ZirconiumX: at least not for me :)
14:47<ZirconiumX>Mainline OpenTTD is very stable. I've only ever found one bug in it, which was fixed quickly
14:51<heffer>maddy_: I maintain openttd for more than 5 years in Fedora now. I had my fair share of bugreports including nasty coredumps and backtraces :)
14:51<heffer>but what I always found amazing was that I came here to this channel and the guys usually had stuff fixed in less than an hour
14:52<maddy_>yeah the devs are really awesome
14:53<+glx>we hate crashes
14:53<heffer>i always drop very cryptic backtraces in here and they are always like "yeah, looks like that happens when 3 vehicles drive to close to the border of the map and a train just breaks down by chance and also all moons align"
14:53<heffer>all from like 20 lines of backtraces
14:54<ZirconiumX>Hmm. Maybe I should become a maintainer.
14:54<+glx>once we know where it happens it's easier to imagine why it happens (and fix it)
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14:56<Wolf01>buonasera o/
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16:06<Wolf01>hi hi
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---Logclosed Sat Apr 05 00:00:04 2014