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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-04-06

---Logopened Sun Apr 06 00:00:06 2014
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01:55<andythenorth>o/
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03:48<andythenorth>1950 Metro Train
03:48<andythenorth>such an inspiring name
03:48<andythenorth>along with 1900 Metro Train
03:48-!-talebowl [~delltvgat@ip-81-11-196-195.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd
03:48<andythenorth>and the memorable 2000 Metro Train
03:48<andythenorth>maybe I should fix that :P
03:53<andythenorth>hmm
03:53<andythenorth>no vehicle ID in newgrf debug window?
03:56<@planetmaker>moin
03:56<andythenorth>moin planetmaker
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04:23<@peter1138>Morning
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04:31<Taede>mornin
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04:52<andythenorth>my 2 year old seems to be able to kernel panic my mac
04:53<SpComb>fuzz-testing
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05:03<andythenorth>he causes the trackpad and USB hub to freak
05:03<andythenorth>maybe he has the wrong polarity
05:05<Flygon>andythenorth: Children are the best bugtesters
05:05<Flygon>They do things adults would never do
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05:07<andythenorth>all he does is touch it
05:07<andythenorth>poof
05:07<andythenorth>boom
05:09<@planetmaker>probably he's (in) charge :P
05:09<@planetmaker>of bug finding
05:11<@peter1138>Who wants hierarchical groups?
05:13<andythenorth>hmm
05:13<andythenorth>the foamers want them :D
05:16<@peter1138>Hurr, triple-screen OpenTTD...
05:17<@peter1138>Hmm... bezel compensation? :p
05:18<andythenorth>:D
05:23<Wolf01>moin
05:32<andythenorth>new vehicle AI! Overtaking! Also better physics! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoO5jer-Vpk
05:33<andythenorth>not OpenTTD :P
05:35<@peter1138>I never noticed their wheels didn't turn around bends :p
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05:37<@peter1138>I do wish they'd fix the crappy "slow lane has to merge into last lane" stuff.
05:40<@peter1138>Hmm, could do with windows appearing on the same screen as the mouse.
05:44<@peter1138>Oh dear, haemmoraging money :(
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05:47<@peter1138>Shouldn't've set up that airline route, really.
05:51<andythenorth>flying coal?
05:51<@peter1138>Hmm, closed airports should incur less infrastructure cost, imho
05:51<andythenorth>infra cost is a bit weird
05:52<andythenorth>not sure what it solves
05:52*rubidium wonders how much more Berlin Brandenburg costs than the other airports of Berlin
05:52*andythenorth wonders if newgrf debug tools have vehicle IDs, but hidden somewhere I’m not seeing it
05:52<@peter1138>Don't have enough cash to destroy it :(
05:53<@peter1138>I was off by about £1000
05:53<@peter1138>Now I'm off by £81000
05:53<@peter1138>Not gonna happen.
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05:54<@peter1138>Oddly enough, I've got no money and yet something autorenewed.
05:54-!-zydeco [~zydeco@77.231.195.183] has joined #openttd
05:54<@peter1138>Oh wait, not that was profit from selling a vehicle. I'll shut up.
05:56<@peter1138>I cheated and used the undo button.
05:56<@peter1138>Sorry, undo knob.
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05:58<andythenorth>quak
05:59<frosch123>moin
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06:01<@planetmaker>moin
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06:15<@peter1138>Does cargodist do automatic transfers?
06:17<drhese>any easy way to update dedicated linux server to 1.4.0?
06:20<@peter1138>Bah, this cargo only wants to go "anywhere" so transfers don't work.
06:22<frosch123>anyone considers savegame compatibility important? :p
06:22<@peter1138>Nah
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07:33<ZirconiumX>Hi guys (and girls)
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07:34<frosch123>isn't it "gals" ?
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07:36<ZirconiumX>There are no gals on the internet.
07:37<ZirconiumX>There are girls, but no gals.
07:47<@peter1138>...
07:47<@peter1138>Guys & gals.
07:47<@peter1138>Boys & girls.
07:47<@peter1138>Men & women.
07:47<@peter1138>You probably wouldn't want to say "Hi boys" so...
07:48<andythenorth>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx3v4DrqgU8
07:48<@peter1138>Hey, now that 1.4.0 is out, can I freely smash up trunk? :D
07:48<@peter1138>Thanks andythenorth
07:49<andythenorth>kind of like rick rolling
07:49<andythenorth>except the 10s of YT ads spoils the joke
07:49<andythenorth>is YT dead yet?
07:49<@peter1138>What's a YT ad?
07:50<+michi_cc>peter1138: There's always revert, so... :p
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07:53<andythenorth>is there a thing that blocks YT pre-roll ads?
07:53<rubidium>Turkey?
07:54<@peter1138>Adblock?
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08:02<andythenorth>peter1138: what are you going to scribble into trunk?
08:03<frosch123>http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/8bppsupport.png <- hmm, is "8bpp support" a screen resolution?
08:04<frosch123>is "windowed only" a useful default? or should it rather be "not supported"?
08:04<andythenorth>ho
08:04<andythenorth>these metro trains of mine are much lower capacity than RL
08:04<andythenorth>nvm
08:05<frosch123>does "windowed only" makes sense anyway? is the videodriver faster with mapping 8->32bpp than ottd blitters?
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08:08<@peter1138>andythenorth, nothing useful.
08:08<andythenorth>that’s what I’m doing too :)
08:10<andythenorth>hmm
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08:10<andythenorth>400 pax is a bit big for a 1 tile train?
08:11<@peter1138>Packt like sardines in a crushd tin box
08:12<andythenorth>in a tube
08:12<andythenorth>sardine tube
08:12<frosch123>veritcal trains
08:12<frosch123>*vertical
08:13<andythenorth>cdist seems to like these metro trains
08:13<andythenorth>it has delivered 2000 pax to each of the 1-tile stations
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08:48<Flygon>Cargodist likes anything within enough distance
08:48<Flygon>It completely overwhelms anything using pre-1920s GRFs
08:48<Flygon>Especially before Metro trains are a possibilit
08:49<Flygon>So you use steam hauled trains... and they can't load enough people fast enough
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08:49<Flygon>And that's not even getting into older Trams and Buses
08:50<frosch123>is that why they started the war?
08:51<Flygon>Nah, by the time that war happened, they devised more effective method of transporting masses of people
08:51*Flygon casually walks into hell...
09:01<rubidium>frosch123: it probably depends on the GPU/video card, although with recent GPUs I doubt they even have dedicated fast 8bpp support
09:05<Phreeze>i only play windowed mode
09:05<Phreeze>2 screens = nice for windowed games
09:05<Phreeze>2nd screen has tv/series etc. running
09:06<drhese>how I cab update my dedicated OTTD server easily?
09:06<drhese>can*
09:15<@peter1138>Download the version you want to run and... run it?
09:18<@peter1138>Hmm, whatever happened to that trains-in-reverse patch?
09:22<@peter1138>Hmm, zBase large station has no glass :S
09:22<drhese>I istalled ottd by using some script I found.. maybe I just install it again
09:24<drhese>all again autopilot etc.. :DD
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10:26<frosch123>peter1138: noone liked it, everyone wanted shunting or so :p
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10:53<drhese>my server wont start :(
10:53<drhese>Dimensions: 512x512
10:53<drhese>Starting year: 1950
10:53<drhese>list element in quotes followed by ":" instead of space while executing
10:53<drhese>"lindex [lindex [split $::errorInfo \n] 0] 1"
10:53<drhese> (procedure "::ap::game::version" line 4)
10:53<drhese> invoked from within
10:53<drhese>"::ap::game::version $openttd"
10:54<drhese> invoked from within
10:54<drhese>"set ottd_version [::ap::game::version $openttd]"
10:54<drhese> (file "./autopilot.tcl" line 138)
10:55<@peter1138>frosch123, what!?
10:55<@peter1138>frosch123, :(
11:02<@peter1138>Do we have a standard confirmation window?
11:03<@peter1138>Cos when you have hierarchical vehicle groups, it's a right pain when you accidentally delete a top-level group... :S
11:05<frosch123>yes, we have
11:06<frosch123>ShowQuery
11:18<@peter1138>Wait, did my 32bpp crash palette mod never make it either? Hmm!
11:20<+michi_cc>Obviously you don't commit enough, you just write patches :)
11:20<drhese>https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=63499
11:20<drhese>thats my problem
11:21<__ln__>http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/04/not-dead-yet-dutch-british-governments-pay-to-keep-windows-xp-alive/
11:31<@peter1138>Hmm, gotta update my svn checkout :S
11:47<__ln__>https://scontent-a-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1.0-9/1560563_10152058619249639_836166571_n.jpg
11:48<@peter1138>Errrr
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12:43<zydeco>weird, it crashes when entering japanese, but not chinese
12:49<zydeco>http://bugs.openttd.org/task/5972
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14:10<andythenorth>o/
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14:13<LSky>!players
14:13-!-LSky was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
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14:14<LSky>woops
14:14<LSky>thats a quick kick :/
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14:44<LinhyCZ>Hey guys! :) Is there any way, to connect from newest android verison of OpenTTD to 1.4.0. PC server?
14:47<frosch123>the versions must match
14:47<frosch123>exactly
14:47<frosch123>you can only connect to ottd 1.4.0 with ottd 1.4.0
14:48<drhese>is there any way to get autopilot working with 1.4.0?
14:48<frosch123>everyone uses soap these days
14:48<frosch123>autopilot is deprecated
14:48<drhese>I see
14:50<drhese>soap is hard to install.. there isnt good enough manuals..
14:51<frosch123>it has a readme
14:53<drhese>yeah and its not easy
14:55<drhese>I cant undestand why att cant be in same packet..
14:55<drhese>it*
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14:56<drhese>OFS, Supybot, libottdadmin2...
14:56<drhese>do I realy need these all? I dont want irc support..
14:56<frosch123>what do you want autopilot for then?
14:57<drhese>scripts
14:57<Taede>irc support is the main feature for soap
14:57<drhese>like commands, MOTD etc..
14:58<frosch123>aren't those generic ottd features?
14:59<Taede>not the !nick/!admin/!rules and such
14:59<Taede>or the private message upon joining a server
14:59<drhese>and !reset
14:59<Taede>dunno that one
15:00<drhese>I had to add resetme script that I found from dev.openttdcoop.org
15:01<Taede>ah, soap does not feature that at this point
15:01<drhese>I just need simple scripts.. Im too old to set and configure server from day to day.. :D
15:04<Taede>not sure something like that exists without going over irc
15:05<LinhyCZ>I know, that they must match, but how can I get the same version on android?
15:05<drhese>:/
15:05<Taede>libottdadmin2 itself comes with a console-app, but its really just that, a remote console
15:05<Taede>no motd/ingame commands
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15:07<drhese>k
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15:22<@planetmaker>g'evening
15:23<andythenorth>lo planetmaker
15:23<@planetmaker>LinhyCZ, I read in forums that there is an OpenTTD 1.4.0 for android. whereever the maintainer of that port uploaded it / makes it available
15:25<@planetmaker>anything new today, andythenorth ? :D
15:25<andythenorth>planetmaker: been horsing
15:25<andythenorth>fixed some errors
15:26<@planetmaker>horses are no errors. At least if I ask my sister ;)
15:26<@planetmaker>but she basically has a PhD in horse psychology :P
15:26<rubidium>they are cattle though ;)
15:33<Phreeze>lol
15:37<LinhyCZ>planetmaker, I've downlaoded it through Google Play, where it says, that it's 1.4.0.27 ..
15:37<@planetmaker>that's unfortunate then
15:37<@peter1138>Weird version
15:37<LinhyCZ>Yeah it is..
15:38<@planetmaker>and it disallows joining any 1.4.0 servers, yes? Then you should try to contact that guy
15:38<frosch123>planetmaker: to quote a friend of mine "my sister wanted to become a stablehand, until she figured out that you have to work as stablehand"
15:39<@planetmaker>:) Well, I guess my sister rather teaches that ;) Or horse breeding and feeding and treatment strategies. But yeah
15:40<@planetmaker>you should listen to her complaining about those type of girls which your friend describes with that statement ;)
15:40<frosch123>i can imagine :)
15:41<rubidium>https://github.com/pelya/openttd-android/commit/f30d497cc15fa750949fabfccc94d5b14fcf1a5a <- I hope that's not the android version of stable, but I fear it is
15:41<frosch123>yay, 1.5!
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15:42<@planetmaker>maybe I should get a tablet somewhen :D
15:42<rubidium>also... it doesn't seem to contain r26439
15:43<LinhyCZ>Yeah.. When I click on server name in browser, on server tab it says - Version Mismatch :/
15:43<@planetmaker>LinhyCZ, then the Android 1.4.0 is not actually 1.4.0
15:43<@planetmaker>it's mis-named
15:43<rubidium>so congratulations LinhyCZ, you run a nightly development version of a few days ago
15:44<@planetmaker>:(
15:44<@planetmaker>I'm disappointed tbh
15:44<rubidium>what's the version that it shows in the main menu?
15:44<LinhyCZ>Probably it is.. I downloaded it before 3 hours, or so..
15:44<rubidium>I'd reckon it says r26441
15:45<rubidium>it's getting even worse: https://github.com/pelya/openttd-android/commit/15b9ab4c088e0a2ec859f93ba4aa79ad77fa2b72
15:46<@planetmaker>:-O
15:46<@planetmaker>:-(((
15:46<LinhyCZ>And in the Main menu, next to name is gf30d497c (1.4.0 on PC)
15:46<@planetmaker>ok, compiled from git, he has to add some version stuff
15:47<rubidium>hmm, true... but still it's ain't anything like 1.4.0
15:51<talebowl>Yesterday I asked a question on here concerning GUIList and StringFilter. It's become now that what I wanted to achieve, would not really be worth the trouble (GUIList would need to support multiple template:F-instances or even types, which I think would be too big a change for a patch), aside from the actual end-result not being very important or interesting (ui-change, no game impact).
15:51<talebowl>That said, I'm looking for another "project", and saw the unified-location-button in the todo-list on the wiki, and as the page advises to check on IRC whether someone is working on an item already: anyone working on that?
15:51<talebowl>Looking through the code, it seems that it could be partially based on the other common top-window-buttons. Also, another part is of course the actual sprite in OpenGFX and the other basesets (I'd suggest the circle with four compass-positioned lines and optional filled circle within (which would probably be too busy for the small sizes of the gui) is common enough to be recognizable). Core-side configuration of this would be in tabl
15:51<talebowl>e/sprites.h, altough the correct position/id would need to be determined after inclusion in the baseset(s). I'm still trying to figure out how that process would go exactly, though I've read a bit about NML and grfcodec. Personally, I'd be more interested in approaching this code-first with a placeholder image in sprites.h at first. Does anyone see any major problems with that approach?
15:51<LinhyCZ>o.O
15:53<@planetmaker>talebowl, the sprite itself is the least work. For writing the patch any placeholder will do, for sure
15:54<andythenorth>I don’t understand how this laptop charges so fast
15:56<LinhyCZ>okey, I'm going away.. So, will be on Google Play version with I can connect to 1.4.0 servers? :D
15:56<@planetmaker>talebowl, placeholder as in re-using an existing sprite. I'm sure there actually are sprites which already act as 'location' button
15:56<@planetmaker>LinhyCZ, probably not
15:56<rubidium>LinhyCZ: yes, but it won't be 1.4.0 and therefor you may get kicked out of the game by means of a desync error
15:57<LinhyCZ>Oh come on.. And is there any way, to downgrade the game?
15:58<frosch123>talebowl: http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/rev/cecc91b6c3d7 <- just look how sprites were added previously
15:58<rubidium>no idea, we don't support the android port
15:58<frosch123>if you have grfcodec installed, the makefile will generate the files after you edited the image source and nfo file
15:58<andythenorth>hmm
15:58<LinhyCZ>oh.. Okey, so I should contact maker of that port..
15:58<andythenorth>‘auto-refit’ is the accepted term?
15:59*andythenorth is doing buy menu text
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16:01<frosch123>talebowl: http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/rev/be687acd0e24 http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/rev/877824ece4c7 <- or look how the "default size" button was added
16:01<andythenorth>also how much ‘type’ info is needed? None? Some?
16:01<talebowl>planetmaker, on re-using an existing sprite: absolutely, would create a SpriteID const with the same number as a current one for now. frosch123: Thanks for the links
16:01<@planetmaker>http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/grid/ <-- might give some ideas on how to add sprites
16:02<@planetmaker>frosch's advise is more spot-on :)
16:04<andythenorth>all the FISH ships have type info
16:04<andythenorth>dunno if trains need it?
16:04<@planetmaker>type info as in...?
16:04<andythenorth>‘some diesel loco’, ‘Type: diesel loco’ :P
16:04<frosch123>does fish have a river/sea icon meanwhile?
16:04<andythenorth>frosch123: no :)
16:04<andythenorth>sore point
16:04<andythenorth>did we do ocean yet? :(
16:04<andythenorth>maybe peter1138 would do it?
16:04<frosch123>would you have an ocean icon? :p
16:06<andythenorth>frosch123: you like buy menu icons? o_O
16:06*planetmaker likes buy menu icons, too :D
16:06<andythenorth>‘Box car’, ‘Type: wagon for most cargos'
16:06<andythenorth>seems stupid
16:07<frosch123>"box car" is something the sprite of name should tell you :p
16:07<frosch123>s/of/or/
16:07<andythenorth>I think I can ditch type info for most of the wagons at least
16:07<frosch123>and you can already see the cargos
16:07<andythenorth>“Passenger car”, “Type: vehicle for carrying passengers” <- orly :P
16:07<frosch123>you could add autorefit info
16:07<andythenorth>auto-refit is alreay mentioned
16:07<frosch123>or loading speed info, if there are differences
16:08<andythenorth>“Offers auto-refit”
16:08<andythenorth>also adjusted payment penalties for refrigerated wagons
16:08<frosch123>is autorefit actually the term in the gui?
16:08<andythenorth>dunno
16:08*andythenorth checks
16:08<frosch123>it's kind of misleading :p
16:08<andythenorth>Auto-refit
16:08<frosch123>i would call it refit-at-stations
16:09<Supercheese>you have to manually add autorefit info to the purchase screen eh
16:09<andythenorth>frosch123: I am thinking same
16:09<frosch123>auto-refit would be more for the "refit to waiting cargo" thingie
16:09<andythenorth>Auto-refit is non-obvious
16:09<frosch123>it's like autoslope :p
16:09<frosch123>lots of "auto" names make no sense :)
16:09<andythenorth>+1
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16:19<__ln__>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2598047/Railway-line-runs-streets-narrow-train-squeezes-past-shop-fronts-traders.html
16:19<andythenorth>why are you mail-bombing me?
16:19<andythenorth>it’s a sin
16:23<frosch123>ln is interested in learning about uk citizens and their interest
16:23<@planetmaker>lol, what a railway line
16:23<andythenorth>it’s my own fault for clicking :(
16:23<andythenorth>I should have read the url
16:23<frosch123>planetmaker: actually, earlier this afternoon ln even posted a good picture :p
16:25<frosch123>17:47:03 < __ln__> https://scontent-a-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1.0-9/1560563_10152058619249639_836166571_n.jpg
16:26<@planetmaker>lool :)
16:26<@peter1138>andythenorth, what woul i do?
16:26<@peter1138>Ocean?
16:27<andythenorth>Oceans
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16:27<@peter1138>WaterTypes?
16:27<@planetmaker>oceans is water with a certain distance from a shore. And allows different ship speed
16:27<@planetmaker>kinda
16:29<frosch123>peter1138: the idea was: since people do not play with river or ocean speeds, they may want to play with even more speed classes
16:29<frosch123>or so
16:29<@peter1138>Yers...
16:38<andythenorth>strictly, it’s kicking ‘sea speed’ out a few tiles from coast
16:41<andythenorth>maybe there were better ideas than mine
16:41<andythenorth>dunno :)
16:43<frosch123>maybe i misrepresented it :p
16:43<andythenorth>the river ships in FISH are never used
16:43<andythenorth>never / rarely /s
16:45<andythenorth>also bedtime ;)
16:45<andythenorth>bye
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17:08<talebowl>Question about auto-generated files such as src/script/api/game/game_window.hpp.sq: Is that auto-generated by ./configure or by make? How can I force it to regenerate? For some reason WID_TV_CENTER_VIEW won't be deleted from that file, even though it's the only occurrence in the codebase.
17:09<@planetmaker>https://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3210/ @ talebowl
17:13<@planetmaker>./configure only creates the Makefile
17:13<@planetmaker>or Makefiles
17:14<talebowl>planetmaker: Should've clarified: the only occurrence in my local modifications on trunk: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3211/
17:14<@planetmaker>you can call like 'make clean' and then 'make' to re-build everything
17:15<talebowl>Ok, thanks :)
17:15<@planetmaker>hu? You removed it from all other places?
17:17<talebowl>I approached the top-of-window location-button as a widget in the style of resize, redefsize, or shade (but with window-local onClick handling and tooltips). Not entirely sure if that is the right approach though.
17:18<@planetmaker>but normally a simple call of 'make' should suffice. And re-generate those files which need it
17:18<@planetmaker>might save some compilation time
17:19<talebowl>On one hand, it would be beneficial to outsource a large part of the common code to general widget-related functionality. On the other hand, tooltips and onClick for location should always be window-local, which might not be as clear, because it can be approached as a top-of-window button..
17:21<talebowl>As for the make call: I'd have thought so, yes. Even make clean seems to not have worked though. I'll try again without jobs parameter, but I'd think that wouldn't make a difference
17:23<@planetmaker>src/script/api/squirrel_export.sh ?
17:27<talebowl>Ah, that seems to have done the trick. Thanks!
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19:00<Wolf01>'night all
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22:22<Dan9550>afternoon
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---Logclosed Mon Apr 07 00:00:08 2014