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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-04-07

---Logopened Mon Apr 07 00:00:08 2014
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02:25<@planetmaker>miau ;)
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03:01<supermop>i have used more spackle/wall patch this afternoon than my dad and myself have used in our combined lifetimes to date
03:01<supermop>and i am not even done with the first coat
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04:55<maddy_>I have been playing in SP game for the last few days, not been very active on "coop", I am trying to learn some stuff by myself
05:02<V453000>cant say that is a bad thing
05:03<maddy_>so you're glad I haven't messed up the coop network too badly? :)
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05:26<@planetmaker>that neither :)
05:37<Eddi|zuHause>i totally read that as "if you don't play, you can't screw anything up"
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07:04<@peter1138>Hah, copy & pasting from a PDF... it copies each letter as a new line :S
07:04<@peter1138>"Select the database system corresponding to your needs. These options are available:"
07:04<@peter1138>"MySQL 5"
07:04<@peter1138>"... a commercial license may be needed for use in a commercial environment."
07:04<@peter1138>Uh huh...
07:05<@peter1138>Failure to understand GPL there :)
07:06<LordAro>lol, GPL#
07:28<@planetmaker>nah, method. they hope you don't so that they can sell it to you for big $$$
07:35<@peter1138>Different vendor.
07:36<@peter1138>You can license MySQL from Oracle differently if you needed it, but that is not needed just to use it in a commercial situation.
07:36<__ln__>but they said "may be needed"
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07:51<@peter1138>Sure... scaring people :p
07:52<Pinkbeast>I think it's malice not incompetence, and I did spend 10 years working at the Great Satan of Databases
07:56<maddy_>it's not that bad really
07:58<maddy_>as long as the statement is true, that a commercial license is needed in -some- cases
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08:30<@planetmaker>maddy_, if the programme is licensed GPL, then in *no* case a commercial license is needed
08:33<Wolf01>hi hi
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08:54<talebowl>Hi, yesterday I had a problem where, after compiling, my changes wouldn't show up (and for info, version number in the titlebar was 1.4.0-RC1 and not a rev#). After I ran make (or ./configure and make) again, they did show up. Atm, I have the same problem, only now running any combination of ./configure, make clean, and make any number of times doesn't seem to solve it. Even tried to make some dummy changes to trigger make in cases w
08:54<talebowl>here I didn't run clean before. My changes keep not showing up (only difference in the code between now and when did show up last night is a call to the DEBUG macro wrapped in an if) and versionnumber in the titlebar keeps being 1.4.0-RC1. Does anyone have any ideas what might be causing this? (I have verified that I'm running the correct executable. My working dir is ~/OpenTTD/trunk/, I'm running ~/OpenTTD/trunk/bin/openttd with or
08:54<talebowl>without -d 1)
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09:14<@planetmaker>talebowl, how did you obtain your source? what vcs do you use?
09:15<talebowl>the subversion repository. svn --version is "svn, version 1.7.9 (r1462340) compiled Oct 15 2013, 12:40:34"
09:16<@planetmaker>while I would recommend you for real development work to use mercurial or git instead of subversion, it doesn't matter a lot
09:16<@planetmaker>what does svn info tell you in that repo?
09:17<talebowl>svn info:
09:18<@planetmaker>ehm... then I can only assume that you started the wrong openttd binary
09:19<talebowl>I can see how that would be the logical conclusion :) Just to be sure, It should be:[repo]/bin/openttd right?
09:20<@planetmaker>if that repo was a svn trunk checkout, you can never get a binary with a release version
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09:20<@planetmaker>releases have different svn URL
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09:22<talebowl>weird.. I'll check if I can get the file modification time of the binary I'm using... As I've verified that I'm in the correct path: "~/OpenTTD/trunk/bin$ openttd -d 1"
09:22<Taede>try "./openttd -d1"
09:22<@planetmaker>yeah. ./bin/openttd -d1
09:22<Taede>so it runs from the current working dir
09:23<@planetmaker>talebowl, if you don't specify explicitly local path, the global binary is called
09:23<@planetmaker>openttd uses installed openttd from package manager
09:23<@planetmaker>./openttd uses binary in local dir
09:23<@planetmaker>local dir is never in path
09:24<@planetmaker>(unless you set that yourself - but that's not advisable)
09:24<talebowl>Oh my... how did I not see that :p
09:24<talebowl>Thanks :)
09:25<@planetmaker>talebowl, anyhow, when you're into patching, use of mercurial or git will make your life much easier than using subversion
09:26<@planetmaker>I'd recommend mercurial but opinions may vary
09:28<mg_>hi :) question. i have some fishing ships set up, they go around collecting fish and dropping them at the harbour. it's year 1856 so i now have 3 horse carriages, every one transprots only 8t of food to a nearby city. and those ships bring in hundreds of tonnes. until there are trucks available, most of the fish will just lay around in the harbour. does it affect fish somehow? i mean, is there some time (days etc) after which those f
09:29<talebowl>on git/hg: Hmm, I'll look into that after I'm done with this.
09:30<@planetmaker>mg_, the fish will rot. And decay
09:33<mg_>so the ones which are not fresh will disappear after some time?
09:35<@planetmaker>read up on station rating in wiki. Or game concepts :) That explains it
09:35<mg_>okay, i will thx :)
09:35<@planetmaker>if rating < 50% stuff will start to vanish
09:39<Pinkbeast>mg_: But there's no special degradation mechanic for what one would normally think of as perishables.
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09:42<@planetmaker>yeah. Farm supplies vanish at the same rate ;)
09:54<mg_>yeah i know thats the case when you don't keep up rating %. just was wondering if its the same with fish :)
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10:26<@planetmaker>every cargo is the same :)
10:26<@planetmaker>it's just names. And prices which differ. And destinations. And vehicles which can transport it. And passenger class vs. other classes
10:30<mg_>ok, got it
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10:48<Eddi|zuHause>all cargos are the same, except they are different
10:48<Eddi|zuHause>sounds a bit cargoist
10:49<Pikka>some cargos are more the same than others
10:52<zydeco>except passengers
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14:46<andythenorth>Pikka lo
14:47<Pikka>hello anandy!
14:50<Pikka>wie geht's?
14:50*andythenorth wonders what to horse next?
14:50<Pikka>such hoss
14:50<andythenorth>I suppose fixing the broken
14:50<Pikka>what have you horsed so far?
14:51<andythenorth>I have horsed engine and wagon speeds
14:51<andythenorth>and capacities
14:51<andythenorth>more of some and less of others
14:51<andythenorth>I have to horse offsets some time :(
14:51<Pikka>running costs. or sprite offsets, yes
14:51<andythenorth>avoiding that :P
14:51<andythenorth>oh, you looked in my issue tracker :(
14:52<Pikka>make newstandardtemplate.png
14:52<Pikka>farm out fixing all the sprite positions to the plebs on the forum?
14:53<andythenorth>sprite positions is ok
14:53<andythenorth>priblem is
14:53<andythenorth>I fixed all the offsets
14:53<andythenorth>then did this 10/8 thing
14:53<andythenorth>now broken is
14:53<Pikka>what 10/8 thing
14:53<Pikka>just the one 10/8 thing, or many 10/8 things?
14:53<andythenorth>each vehicle is 3 articulated vehicles
14:53<andythenorth>graphicses are on middle unit
14:54<andythenorth>Dan is persuasive :P
14:54<andythenorth>as is Eddi
14:54<Pikka>you made everything 10/8?
14:54<andythenorth>no, but
14:54<andythenorth>everything is 3 things
14:54<andythenorth>fun times
14:55<Pikka>even the <=8/8 things are 3 things?
14:55<Pikka>por qua
14:55<andythenorth>because stuff
14:55<andythenorth>easier to write one lot of code once
14:56<Pikka>no reversible locos? no MUs?
14:56<andythenorth>none of that
14:56<andythenorth>is good decisions?
14:57<Pikka>sounds a bit like bad feetures to me
14:57<andythenorth>BAD FEATURE
14:58<andythenorth>I can always do a v2 :P
14:59<andythenorth>otoh, it means no HST :D
14:59<andythenorth>and no Eurostar
14:59<andythenorth>so there are upsides
14:59<frosch123>i know two letters of your next grfid
14:59<@planetmaker>why is it a bad feature? :)
15:00<Pikka>how am I going to run my 3-tile coal trains with no eurostar?
15:00<andythenorth>well it required a total rewrite of 50% of the code, to add just a couple of 10/8 or 9/8 vehicles, and excludes some things like MU and vehicle flipping
15:00<andythenorth>on the other hand, it provided a perfect instant framework for Road Vehicles, with about 20 mins of changes
15:01<andythenorth>due to way it handles everything as articulated consists
15:01<andythenorth>so losses and wins
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15:01<andythenorth>‘framework’ urgh
15:02<@planetmaker>you should use the new grf wizard ;)
15:02<andythenorth>Pikka: you put one big electric engine on the front, and one on the back, you are ok
15:02<Pikka>or I just wait for maglev
15:02<andythenorth>planetmaker: is it xml?
15:02<Pikka>there are maglevs, right?
15:02<andythenorth>Pikka: what is ‘maglev’?
15:02<andythenorth>maglev is thing in tracking table
15:02<andythenorth>not in game
15:02<frosch123>maybe try making a frameleisure instead of a framework
15:02<@planetmaker>haha :)
15:04<andythenorth>hmm framelunch
15:04*andythenorth is hungry
15:04<andythenorth>this boring disk erase is boring
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15:05<Pikka>hence the adjective
15:05<andythenorth>all these zeros
15:05<andythenorth>why can’t it write all the 0s at once?
15:05<andythenorth>it’s actually going to every bit and setting zero :P
15:06<Pikka>how else could it do it?
15:06<andythenorth>remember etcha-sketch, how you could wipe the whole thing in one pass?
15:07<Pikka>you should patent that, could be a revolution in hard-drive wiping
15:07<andythenorth>I wondered
15:07<andythenorth>usually we just drill them
15:07<andythenorth>but I don’t like the waste :P
15:07<andythenorth>I’d like to reuse this one
15:08<Pikka>I was going to say, if you're not reusing it then
15:08<Pikka>but if you are then
15:08<andythenorth>after drilling, they’re not as usable, generally
15:08<Pikka>also some kind of pun around "boring disk erase"
15:09<andythenorth>is anyone drawing the trucks I need?
15:10<Pikka>the trucks you want, or the trucks you need?
15:10<Pikka>or the trucks you deserve?
15:10<andythenorth>there is difference?
15:10<andythenorth>I treat all 3 as synonyms
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15:11<Pikka>probably not, then
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15:13<andythenorth>is anyone drawing any trucks, anywhere?
15:13<Pikka>someone, somewhere.
15:13<andythenorth>maybe I just teach code to draw them
15:15<andythenorth>Pikka: have you made a squirrel army yet?
15:16<Pikka>I have not
15:16<andythenorth>how hard can GS be?
15:16<andythenorth>too hard for andythenorth ?
15:16<Pikka>not at all
15:16*andythenorth is not very clever
15:16<Pikka>I just haven't gotten around to the gs yet :o
15:17<andythenorth>we need more of them
15:17<andythenorth>2 is not enough
15:17<andythenorth>I should make one
15:17*andythenorth wonders if Eddi|zuHause could write a GS code generator :P
15:21<andythenorth>Pikka: type info (‘Suitable for’ etc in NARS 2)… BAD FEATURE?
15:22<andythenorth>all of it?
15:22<andythenorth>it’s ok in FISH
15:22<Pikka>partly because I didn't want to bother with translations, though ;)
15:23<andythenorth>I have it in place for IH, with dummy text
15:23<andythenorth>I started writing real text, but I have nothing to write :P
15:23<andythenorth>Type: electric locomotive
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15:24<Pikka>Type: a bit better than that one loco in one way, but not as much as the other one, but maybe you could have worked this out for yourself by looking at the stats
15:24<andythenorth>I could try and impose my opinions on players
15:24<andythenorth>“Only for use on freight"
15:25<andythenorth>“Use this for moderately fast suburban services with at least 3 stations, but no gradients more than 2 tiles long"
15:25<@planetmaker>but not in winter
15:25<Pikka>another brilliant NARS2 feeture
15:25<andythenorth>“Only use this if you are modelling the GWR between 1945 and 1948"
15:25<Pikka>this loco doesn't have a train heating boiler, no passenger carriages
15:25<andythenorth>I would actually file HEP under NOT GOOD FEATURE
15:26<andythenorth>took me fricking ages to work out why me engines were crippled :P
15:26<andythenorth>silly Pikka
15:26<Pikka>tres :)
15:26<andythenorth>we do it because we can
15:26<andythenorth>not because it’s wise
15:27<andythenorth>also, just finished reading this, it’s good
15:28<andythenorth>“Design is Law”
15:28<andythenorth>except it’s not
15:28<andythenorth>technology is
15:37<andythenorth>where is lightning in ottd?
15:37<rubidium>it's always clear and sunny in OpenTTD
15:38<Taede>rainshowers dont last long enough to show up
15:39<@planetmaker>well, a day is 2.2 seconds and I definitely have seen a week of (nearly) continuous rain in RL :P
15:39<@planetmaker>annoying would be day-night-cycle
15:40<@planetmaker>like switching between OpenGFX and NightGFX by the second :P
15:40<andythenorth>should rain for a year
15:40<@planetmaker>time is an abstract concept anyway. It's just another dimension
15:40<rubidium>I just assume the OpenTTD planet surface is tidally locked to its star
15:41<@planetmaker>what an inhabitable place :)
15:41<@planetmaker>or what a dense atmosphere
15:41<Taede>at least its nice n flat
15:41<@planetmaker>can't decide :)
15:41<Taede>and square
15:41<+glx>the wind is weird too IIRC
15:41<Taede>none of this spherical roundness
15:41<@planetmaker>it's an effect of the tidal locking. Strong winds :)
15:42<@planetmaker>Taede, maybe it's an old, abandoned borg cube?
15:42<rubidium>yeah, clear and sunny, and tidally locked don't really combine
15:42<rubidium>unless there is no atmosphere at all
15:42<@planetmaker>oh, there could be a dense atmosphere
15:43<rubidium>that explains the poor acceleration then ;)
15:43<@planetmaker>that could distribute by strong winds the heat input more or less evenly. Like on Venus. Not sure it needs clouds - though they add to it
15:44<@planetmaker>maybe it's all under a dome anyway - then those considerations don't play much of a role
15:44<@planetmaker>could also explain eratic wind directions
15:44<@planetmaker>it also explains the map edges
15:45<Taede>or its indoor, with artificial lighting
15:46<@planetmaker>I like the idea of a habitat on the sunny surface of a tidally locked body around a dwarf star better :P
15:48<@peter1138>Pom te pom
15:48<andythenorth>did anyone solve Ocean?
15:49*andythenorth didn't
16:00<Pikka>who's Ocean?
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16:01<@planetmaker>11, 12 or 13 ;)
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16:06<frosch>ah, so it wasn't just me
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16:39<@planetmaker>is it actually only me who find the distinctions between orders and timetable view unnecessary?
16:39<frosch>i guess it is a try to make it less complex :p
16:40<frosch>count the buttons on both windows, then add them :p
16:40<@planetmaker>yeah. But it makes it more complex to really setup orders properly. Speed limits only in time table. order types only in other view...
16:40<frosch>we need clickable text to incorporate light dropdown widgets into text
16:40<@peter1138>I hardly ever look at timetables.
16:41<frosch>or a complete icon driven order gui with suborder :p
16:41<@planetmaker>they complement eachother. But not necessarily in a way which is logical. I doubt it can be logical
16:41<@planetmaker>yeah something like that, or both.
16:42<@planetmaker>icons + text drop-down. dunno
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16:42<@planetmaker>hmm... :)
16:42<SpComb>who designed this Finnish train set thing
16:42<SpComb>the DMUs seem to be so very crap
16:43<@planetmaker>doesn't the readme say?
16:43<@planetmaker>or grf description even?
16:43<Pikka>being crap is the nature of DMUs...
16:45<andythenorth>mine are SUPER BAD!
16:45<andythenorth>they go 75mph and everything
16:46<@planetmaker>what an odd number
16:46<andythenorth>how are timetables supposed to be used?
16:47<andythenorth>I do use them, but only to set waiting time for pax trains, and only because there’s no minimum load % order
16:47<andythenorth>I don’t understand all the buttons
16:50<frosch>just click them
16:50<frosch>i am sure that's what they are for
16:50<andythenorth>Every wagon in Iron Horse is auto-refittable
16:50<andythenorth>so is it worth putting ‘Offers auto-refit’ in the buy menu?
16:51<Pikka>down with extra text in the buy menu!
16:51<andythenorth>remove the cb?
16:52<frosch>put a individual haiku in the description of every vehicle
16:52<SpComb>but it's like a 111km/h DMU that instantly goes to 20km/h as soon as it hits a single hill at full speed
16:52<Pikka>that's string-power for you
16:53<@peter1138>non-"realistic" acceleration? :p
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17:14*andythenorth kills all the ‘type:’ crap
17:14<andythenorth>simpler buy menu
17:16<LordAro>according to my facebook feed, zephyris got married
17:17<andythenorth>people do
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17:41<andythenorth>bed for me
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---Logclosed Tue Apr 08 00:00:10 2014