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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-04-16

---Logopened Wed Apr 16 00:00:27 2014
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00:59<Bobix>hey juzza1, i'm using finnish signals and am lost, can you please tell me which ones are pre/exit?
01:12<Supercheese>can't you use the ? tool to figure it out?
01:12<Supercheese>i.e. build signal, check info
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01:57<Bobix>that did help only a little Supercheese, it only says if it's a block or path signal
01:57<Supercheese>ah, alas
01:57<Phreeze>oh online so early
01:57<Bobix>i'm still up from yesterday
01:58<Phreeze>it's 8 am here
01:58<Bobix>9 here
01:59<Phreeze>were you beating solo hiscores on TTD servers ? :D
01:59<Bobix>i was at a place playing poker
02:00<Bobix>degen like that
02:02<@planetmaker>Bobix, the ? tool tells you the exact signal
02:02<@planetmaker>if it says 'block signal' it's a plain block signal
02:02<Bobix>let me screen shot for you
02:02<@planetmaker>if it's path signal, it's a plain (two-way) path signal
02:03<@planetmaker>I have it on my screen and just tested it with each signal type
02:03<@planetmaker>as could you by building each signal from the signal selection window
02:04<@planetmaker>if it says one-way path signal, it's just that.
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02:04<@planetmaker>there's also entry, exit and combo-signals
02:05<Bobix>did you test with the finnish set?
02:05<@planetmaker>no. But that does not matter. They cannot rename the signals
02:06<@planetmaker>The description and help texts are not subject to NewGRF modification
02:06<@planetmaker>only the graphics
02:07<Bobix>sweet i think i sorted it out now
02:07<Bobix>noticed there's a mouseover if you wait long enough too
02:08<@planetmaker>that, too.
02:08<@planetmaker>in the signal gui
02:14<Bobix>another question
02:14<Bobix>is there a way to restore the naturally accuring rivers that are on the map from when you start
02:14<Bobix>after you bomb them away
02:16<@planetmaker>no. yes, if you save the game, exit openttd, rename the savegame to .scn, start openttd's scenario editor, build rivers, save scenario, load scenario for playing
02:16<Bobix>ugh >__<
02:16<@planetmaker>you can skip the step with 'exit openttd'
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02:28<Phreeze>off to the training course....
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02:46<V453000>the camera of rendered stuff doesnt seem to be 45 degrees down
03:04<V453000>oooh having the camera target aligned wrongly isnt helping :D
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03:18<V453000>if the ground tile is 256x128, it must be 45 degrees, or no?
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03:32<Flygon>We should totally combine Age of Empires II, and OpenTTD
03:32<Flygon>To like
03:32<Flygon>Create the world's best ever isometric game
03:32<Flygon>Age of Transport II
03:32<TinoDidriksen>So, use trains to transport catapults for your siege?
03:33<Flygon>Horse locos!
03:33<Flygon>Seriously though, still saying that a 1000BC to 2500AC era game would be pneat :B
03:34<Flygon>Just need a super computer, a team of artists, and a public exhibition centre
03:34<Flygon>Where we let the public walk up, and control a certain region, and like
03:34<Flygon>Basically grow the world from scratch and see how it evolves relative to the real world :B
03:34<Flygon>brb, implementing plauge as a game mechanic
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03:39<Flygon>In more seriousness though
03:39<Flygon>Having earlier era transports (eg. horse railways, ships) combined with earlier era appropriate cagro would be neat
03:40<Flygon>Just gotta figure out how to have city growth slow down a tonne... because, y'know, kinda hard to simulate such things as sewerage otherwise without other forms of implementation
03:41<V453000>30 degrees it is =D
03:41<V453000>never do meth
03:41<@planetmaker>sin 30° = 0.5
03:42<V453000>pm I havent done anything with sin cos whatever in years :D I literally completely forgot
03:43*V453000 is dumber than ever
03:44<Flygon>TinoDidriksen: Point is, catapults could be a form of cargo. Just combine Wood, Ropes, and Rock :P
03:45<V453000> :D
03:45<V453000>far from complete but (:
03:47<@planetmaker>V453000, the light should come from around where the depot is. maybe one, two tiles to the right
03:47<@planetmaker>it seems to come from much further right, though
03:47<V453000>yeah I didnt quite fiddle with that yet
03:47<@planetmaker>the shadow seems too strong, too. You also need more ambient light
03:48<peter1139>Needs to be more diffuse. Also fit the stone into the tilearea to save effort.
03:49<peter1139>(It almost fits anyway)
03:50<V453000>shitload of effort to render the things into separate tiles anyway, one stone is not a problem :D
03:50<V453000>lighting needs work, I agree
03:51<peter1139>Next step, animate it ;)
03:51<@planetmaker>ignoring the lighting, looking good
03:51<V453000>peter1139: there are going to be creatures on it (:
03:52<@planetmaker>you might touch the transition line grass / pit. To be a bit more irregular.
03:53<@planetmaker>except that it looks nice, logically one has to ask why they first dig a pit, and then use high ladders to climb on the rock, though :)
03:53<V453000>there will probably be no grass in the end
03:53<peter1139>Why does V453000 need logic?
03:53<V453000>but yeah
03:53<peter1139>planetmaker, sounds like REALISM! Nooo!
03:53<@planetmaker>ok, Yetis are dumb. Fair enough :)
03:53<V453000>planetmaker, the "stone mine" aleready looks slightly unlogical (:
03:53<V453000>dumb and fat
03:54<V453000>perfect workers
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04:44<peter1139>heh @ xkcd
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04:50<V453000> /opinion that zbase looks terrible increases
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04:59<peter1139>Hmm, apparently I hadn't updated libssl on the uk openttd mirror :p
04:59<peter1139>(SSL isn't used so no issue)
05:29<peter1139>Err... why do I have the complete archive of Gopher on my system?
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06:22<mg_>hey. i'm playing starting from year 1830. it's now 1846. do first trains appear in 1925 ?
06:22<Xaroth|Work>depensd on which newgrf you use
06:25<mg_>good point
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09:19<DanMacK>@seen andythenorth
09:19<@DorpsGek>DanMacK: andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 16 hours, 31 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <andythenorth> bye
09:20<DanMacK>hey all
09:20<DanMacK>how goes it?
09:20<peter1139>He's missed his daily pop-on-for-3-minutes spot.
09:21<@planetmaker>not bad at all.
09:21<@planetmaker>Just got today a new optical toy to play with over Easter :)
09:21<DanMacK>lol peter
09:22<@planetmaker>400mm tele lens :)
09:22<DanMacK>ooooh sweet
09:22<@planetmaker>yup, first impression is great
09:22<DanMacK>for what csmera?
09:22<@planetmaker>canon EOS
09:23<DanMacK>nice indeed
09:23<@planetmaker>got still an older model there, but might upgrade that somewhen, too
09:23<DanMacK>older as in non digital?
09:23<@planetmaker>30D still. But that works very well for me. Yes, digital.
09:24<@planetmaker>Though I also have an analogue one, still. but don't use it anymore really
09:24<DanMacK>ahhh friend of mine gad a Minolta 9xi analog
09:24<DanMacK>yeah why use it when theres digital
09:25<@planetmaker>it's not like their quality would be better
09:25<DanMacK> exactly
09:25<@planetmaker>couldn't carry as many film rolls with me :P
09:25<peter1139>"analog" :p
09:26<DanMacK>well yeah more space for lenses
09:26<@planetmaker>especially when you try to catch wild life, there's usually a lot of shots which are not that great when the targets move
09:26<DanMacK>what would u call it lol
09:26<@planetmaker>chemical film is analgue to me...?
09:27<DanMacK>yeah digital is sooo much better for that
09:27<@planetmaker>yup, much so
09:27<DanMacK>i was talking to peter :}
09:27<DanMacK>same with trains
09:27<@planetmaker>yup, was just supporting your question :)
09:27<@planetmaker>yeah, also there
09:28<DanMacK>so youve tried thr iron horse alpha?
09:28<@planetmaker>indeed I did. Not overly long so far, just a short time into a map. Looks lovely
09:29<DanMacK>thats just the first of a number of rostrrs
09:29<@planetmaker>are you going to draw 2x zoom sprites? :D
09:29<@planetmaker>or 4x :P ?
09:30<DanMacK>thought about it but alot more work lol
09:30<@planetmaker>yeah, that's the definitive backdraw
09:30<DanMacK>started a couple yhough
09:30<DanMacK>trust me Id love to
09:31<DanMacK>Id love to see a complete 8 bit redraw of opengfx at those zoom levels too lol
09:31<@planetmaker>indeed, yes
09:31<@planetmaker>actually, a redraw at 4x would likely suffice. 2x can be skipped
09:32<@planetmaker>generally, 2x can be skipped :)
09:32<DanMacK>32 bit is cool but I prefer 8bit
09:32<@planetmaker>well, depends on how it's used. Not much great use of 32bpp so far
09:32<DanMacK>well alot of iron horse bits can be recycled for different rosters
09:33<@planetmaker>I've also briefly tested and looked at pikkas pineapple trains. There the 32bpp looks quite lovely
09:34<V453000>on a similar note, when I render stuff, should I render both 4x and 1x? and eventually 2x? or can I just make x4 and let it solve itself?
09:34<DanMacK>well weve got a few more rosters in progress/planning
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09:36<@planetmaker>speaking of the devil? :)
09:36<DanMacK>were your ears ringing andy?
09:36<andythenorth>planetmaker: lack of ‘releases’ here - just because I haven’t made any recently?
09:36<andythenorth>should I read logs :P
09:36<DanMacK>all good things lol
09:37<@planetmaker>V453000, from my experience, 4x is mandatory and 1x might be a good idea. 2x is not necessary.
09:37<@planetmaker>V453000, probably lots of lighting / shading issues in pota-ghat would go, if I provided anything else other than 4x
09:37<V453000>well, easy to just change resolution and re-render :)
09:37<@planetmaker>that's the only 32bpp sprites it has
09:37<@planetmaker>so maybe it needs slightly adjusted settings. dunno
09:37<V453000>thanks (:
09:38<DanMacK>planetmaker was just asking me if we were going to do 4x sprites for ih lol
09:38<@planetmaker>hehe :P
09:38<andythenorth>I won’t be :P
09:38<andythenorth>but I wouldn’t mind if someone else did :P
09:38<andythenorth>my eyes get older
09:38<andythenorth>my screen gets higher-resolution
09:38<DanMacK>I might
09:38<V453000>go minionize DanMacK
09:39<@planetmaker>balances itself out, andythenorth ? :P
09:39<@planetmaker>V453000, why 'go'? It's more a 'further' :P
09:39<DanMacK>if Im just doing 4x
09:40<DanMacK>heading out bbiab
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09:40<@planetmaker>that was... just as quick as andy :P
09:40<andythenorth>he comes, he goes
09:41<andythenorth>also planetmaker that bundles questioN?
09:41<andythenorth>N / n /s
09:42<@planetmaker>sorry, can you point me to the question / repeat it?
09:43<andythenorth>no releases here - probably because I haven’t made any since bundles got rebuilt? Or a .devzone config issue?
09:44<@planetmaker>hm, the old ones should be there, whenever made.
09:46<andythenorth>I wondered
09:46<@planetmaker>it's physically not on the bundles server. I might have forgotten to copy it when I transferred stuff to the current VM
09:47<@planetmaker>a new release would have re-created it. I'll try dig the old ones
09:47<@planetmaker>thanks for the hint
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09:51<V453000>planetmaker: may I ask for a new project YETI Extended Towns & Industries , abbreviation yeti? :D
09:52<V453000>pretty please (:
09:53<andythenorth>yeah that
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09:54<@planetmaker>V453000, sorry, no. I can only allow it without "Extended" :P
09:54<V453000>what why :D
09:54<V453000>extended aing fitting? :D
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09:55<@planetmaker>It's like *New*GRF.
09:55<@planetmaker>(honestly, I don't care much how you name it. Just joking)
09:55<V453000>YETI ExtendedGRF Town & Industries
09:55<V453000>I know :P
09:56<V453000>I just couldnt think about something more fitting YETI acronym
09:56<V453000>any better ideas? =(
09:56<@planetmaker>oh, it's an acronym :P
09:57<@planetmaker>I honestly totally missed that :D
09:57<V453000>? :D
09:57<V453000>OH :D
09:57<@planetmaker>YETI because... yeti :)
09:57<@planetmaker>anyway, all yours. Just help yourself.
09:58<V453000>(. tanks
09:59<V453000>wait the newGRF isnt done yet
09:59<V453000> I thought you would also make the newGRF when creating the project
09:59<@planetmaker>oh :(
09:59<V453000>I have been tricked!
09:59<@planetmaker>damn, you notice
09:59<V453000>ok I feed it one image lets see if that helps
10:00<@planetmaker>let's activate translators. Let them do it ;)
10:00<V453000> (.
10:00<@planetmaker>devzone is the biggest out-sourcing of work I could think of ;)
10:01<V453000> /me goes back to modelling a stupid hole in teh ground
10:02<@planetmaker>tehehe :)
10:02<V453000>the ladders are there because the rock fell from the sky
10:02<V453000>100% logical
10:03<@planetmaker>of course!
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12:11<Phreeze>anybody know a project that has nml code and wagons that have loading sprites ?
12:11<Phreeze>yoshi drew me some wagons, but they have 4 loading states ;) need to code them now
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12:14<Phreeze>only 50000 lines of code...
12:14<V453000>just search for loading
12:15<V453000>and you know how to make the spritegroup
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12:15<Phreeze>loading: [
12:15<Phreeze>easy :)
12:22<Phreeze>in your code, you got 8 states, how does the game know i have 4 states ?
12:22<Phreeze>or 2 ?
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12:22<Phreeze>does it auto-calculate "max capacity of wagon" divided by "number of states in spritegroup" ?
12:23<Phreeze>spritegroup sg_fcs_coal {
12:23<Phreeze> loading: [
12:23<Phreeze> loaded: [
12:23<Phreeze>can't imagine that it's like that ?
12:26<Phreeze>your loading and loaded code is twice the
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12:32<V453000>just provide 2 or 4
12:32<V453000>or any number you want
12:32<V453000>it will sort itself out
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12:36<Eddi|zuHause><Phreeze> does it auto-calculate "max capacity of wagon" divided by "number of states in spritegroup" ? <-- yes
12:36<Eddi|zuHause>Phreeze: but your example is wrong
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12:37<Eddi|zuHause>Phreeze: "loading" is while at station, "loaded" is while travelling. both need all loading stages
12:38<Eddi|zuHause>Phreeze: so you have "loading {0-25,25-50,50-75,75-100} loaded {0-25,25-50,50-75,75-100}
12:39<Eddi|zuHause>if you want other distribution of trigger points, you need a switch statement
12:39<Eddi|zuHause>(i do it that way in CETS, for various reasons)
12:40<Eddi|zuHause>(although i currently have no wagon with actual graphics for that. i've been meaning to fix that)
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12:47<Phreeze>why does travlleing have dofferent stages ?!? weird
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13:13<Eddi|zuHause><Phreeze> why does travlleing have dofferent stages ?!? weird <-- to have like open and closed doors and stuff
13:17<peter1139>and partially filled stuff
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13:31<frosch123>i am still waiting for pikka's tripping trucks
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13:34<DanMacK>hey all
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13:36<frosch123>andy is next probably
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13:41<Phreeze>i dont get that opengfx+ code
13:41<Phreeze>switch(FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, bulk_wagon_switch, cargo_type_in_veh) {
13:41<Phreeze> AORE: bulk_wagon_bauxite_year_switch;
13:41<Phreeze>that bulk_xxxxxxxx_year_switch .... makes no sense to me
13:42<Phreeze>for me, there must be a switch somewhere that has that name
13:42<frosch123>maybe there are macros
13:42<Phreeze>#define THIS_ID(...) bulk_wagon ## __VA_ARGS__
13:43<Phreeze>no clue aboutthat ^^
13:43<Eddi|zuHause>well it's a bit preprocessor magic
13:43<Phreeze>perhaps it automatically adds "bauxite" and "switch" .. as arguments
13:44<frosch123> <- that is the source after macro expansion
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26466 trunk/src/lang/hungarian.txt (2014-04-16 17:45:09 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>hungarian - 1 changes by Brumi
13:45<frosch123>switch(FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, bulk_wagon_bauxite_year_switch, build_year < 1970) { 1: bulk_wagon_bauxite_early_switch_gui; bulk_wagon_bauxite_modern_switch_gui; }
13:46<Eddi|zuHause>it's basically a slightly toned down version of how CETS does it :p
13:47<Phreeze>i think i'll stick with manually adding stuff
13:47<Phreeze>just not sure if i need those properties:
13:47<Phreeze>is it part of an usual code, or is it "magic" too ? :)
13:48<frosch123>lots of examples there
13:49<Eddi|zuHause>that's all just "i'm too lazy to repeat this stuff all the time"
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13:50<frosch123>it's not a matter of lazyness
13:51<Phreeze>i did C...11 years ago :)
13:52<peter1139>It's not C.
13:52<Phreeze>sort of..
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13:53<Eddi|zuHause>it has nothing really to do with C. it's just the preprocessor is likely available eerywhere anyway, that's why it was used
13:53<Eddi|zuHause>any other macro language would have done the job as well
13:55<Phreeze>i'm having a look at the dach code
13:56<Phreeze>it's macro preprocessiing-whatever free^^
13:56<Phreeze>perfect for noobs
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14:00<peter1139>Eddi|zuHause, could've used M4.
14:00<peter1139>Like a certain German.
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14:06<Phreeze>Unrecognized identifier 'COAL' encountered
14:06<Phreeze>doesn't recognize coal as a cargo...
14:06<Phreeze>switch(FEAT_TRAINS, SELF,sw_fcs,cargo_type_in_veh) {
14:06<Phreeze> COAL: sg_fcs_coal;
14:07<Wolf01>hello o/
14:07<APTX>to me, all this looks horrible
14:09<Phreeze>it's pretty easy after you have followed the nml tutorial
14:13<Phreeze>speaking of trains:
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14:24<peter1139>frosch123, bit early
14:32<andythenorth>what next?
14:32<andythenorth>I got totally bored of my game
14:32<andythenorth>lack of working cdist for freight
14:32<andythenorth>and Full FIRS is stupid
14:33<peter1139>cdist doesn't work?
14:33<andythenorth>“doesn’t work how I want"
14:38<andythenorth>really, people care that much about loading times?
14:38<andythenorth>it’s just a fricking train game
14:41<Phreeze>mostly train ;)
14:42<Phreeze>[20:06:38] <Phreeze> switch(FEAT_TRAINS, SELF,sw_fcs,cargo_type_in_veh) {
14:42<Phreeze>[20:06:38] <Phreeze> COAL: sg_fcs_coal;
14:42<Phreeze>why does my *%/(*% nmlc says that COAL is unrecognized ?
14:42<andythenorth>you got a cargo table?
14:43<andythenorth>nmlc hates you if the label isn’t in the cargo table
14:45<Phreeze>i know nothing about nml ... i hate it :)
14:51<Phreeze>Read beyond bounds of image file 'src/gfx/fcs.png' <----------- that is weird too. i checked it, template goes until pixel 176, image is about 200 wide.... there is NO out of bounds..stupid nml
14:53<rubidium>unless the image is 175 pixels high and that's the y coordinate
14:54<rubidium>I doubt that nml is wrong about that bounds check by such a large margin
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15:02<idl0r>rubidium: hm, even with xdg 1.2.0 i get those segfaults
15:03<andythenorth>Phreeze: you’re wrong :)
15:03<andythenorth>paste your code for that sprite and I’ll tell you why
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15:03<andythenorth>nml is one of the least stupid tools I use
15:04<idl0r>rubidium: and now even with 1.4 git branch
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15:08*andythenorth is bored
15:08<andythenorth>dice wars?
15:11<rubidium>idl0r: can you run it with valgrind?
15:12<idl0r>and this happens on exit when running it from inside of the git repo
15:15<rubidium>idl0r: line #31 of the last paste is the first invalid write, which is a call in libxdg-basedir
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15:18<rubidium>actually, all invalid writes are in libxdg-basedir... so the library is likely causing the corruption of the malloc metadata
15:18<peter1139>I'm getting dejavu
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15:22<Phreeze>it's ok andythenorth
15:22<idl0r>in src/fileio.cpp: #ifdef WITH_XDG_BASEDIR
15:23<idl0r>#include "basedir.h"
15:23<idl0r>shouldn't that be <basedir.h> of libxdg-basedir?
15:23*andythenorth considers watching TV
15:24*idl0r is doing that already
15:25<rubidium>idl0r: hmm, maybe... though that doesn't cause this bug
15:25<andythenorth>spose I could work on newgrfs :P
15:25<andythenorth>where is V453000 ?
15:26<V453000>all I see is rocks
15:26<V453000>yo andythenorth if you felt like coding an industry set ... :)
15:26<V453000>I would be more than willing to provide sprites
15:26<andythenorth>yair, but no
15:26<andythenorth>I have questions
15:26<andythenorth>(1) wtf do you play “Full FIRS"
15:26<andythenorth>it’s totally stupid and broken
15:26<idl0r>rubidium: yeah, i just stumbled over it while finding the real cause
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15:27<V453000>(1) I prefer Basic Temperate cuz all things can make supplies
15:27-!-Myhorta [] has joined #openttd
15:27<V453000>ports are awesum because they force people to connect multiple of them to 1 network
15:27<andythenorth>Full FIRS should be deleted
15:27<Phreeze>is it a BAD FEATURE ?
15:27*Phreeze ducks
15:27<andythenorth>V I was considering adding a Farm Supply depot to Full FIRS
15:27<andythenorth>but I decided yesterday I hated it
15:28<V453000>I would fully agree with that idea
15:28<andythenorth>and am not adding any more to it
15:28<andythenorth>it’s really bad
15:28<V453000>but then you still get shit like clay and stone/sand
15:28<V453000>out of which idk what can make supplies
15:28<Phreeze>just transport it
15:28<Phreeze>like in real life...
15:29<V453000>I transport only myself in real life
15:29<andythenorth>I am just going to leave Full FIRS alone
15:29<andythenorth>as a warning to others
15:29<andythenorth>I might rename it
15:29<andythenorth>“Don’t play this"
15:30<andythenorth>can I delete it?
15:30<V453000>idk :D
15:30<Phreeze>whos the author of firs ?
15:30*Phreeze looks it up
15:31<Phreeze>ah andy
15:31<Phreeze>he hates his own grf :D
15:31<Phreeze>i didnt get it what heart of darkness meant
15:31<Phreeze>remembered me of starcraft
15:31<Supercheese>what's the quote, perfection is achieved not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away
15:31<Phreeze>or world of warcraft or so...
15:31<Supercheese>andy and Pikka both seem to be now abiding by that principle :P
15:32<Phreeze>so NULL = perfection ?
15:32<andythenorth>Phreeze: lmgtfy
15:32<andythenorth>actually I can’t be bothered
15:32<Supercheese>it's colonial
15:32<Supercheese>like africa or some such
15:32<andythenorth>should this road vehicle set include a straddle carrier for containers?
15:32<andythenorth>it’s kind of stupid?
15:32<Supercheese>Congo eh
15:32<andythenorth>I could remove it later
15:32<Phreeze>have you read the book andy ?
15:33<andythenorth>Phreeze: what do you think? o_O
15:33<Phreeze>no ? :D
15:33<andythenorth>the other one
15:33<Phreeze>nay ?
15:33<Phreeze>"years ago" (TM) i tried a game with firs
15:34<Phreeze>i was completely overcrowded by too many industries, i instantly disabled it in fear ''
15:37<andythenorth>sounds like a forum report
15:38<Phreeze>lol why :D
15:38<Phreeze>it didn't say it was a bad feature
15:38<peter1139>BAD FEATURE
15:38<Phreeze>i think i did chose FULL
15:39<Phreeze>*BAD FEATURE . excuse me
15:39<andythenorth>I could rename it BAD FIRS Economy?
15:39<andythenorth>or STRONGBAD FIRS
15:40<Phreeze>just rename it INSANE Economy
15:40<V453000>grim and mean
15:40<V453000>means bad? :P
15:40<frosch123>"insane" does not fit
15:40<andythenorth>V453000: so I really can’t be fucked to fix farms in Full FIRS, but I will think up more interesting economies
15:41<andythenorth>V453000: you fix it :P
15:41<V453000>I can only give you scheme, I make yeti in the meantime :P
15:41<andythenorth>ok, how about I add a farm supply depot, and it accidentally turns up in Full FIRS, with no warranty?
15:41<frosch123>call it "greedy", "hoggish" or "braggnig"
15:43<andythenorth>I even have sprites already
15:44<V453000>I always liked the old FS depot.
15:44<peter1139>andythenorth's newgrfs are like my patches
15:44<peter1139>loads of them around, all unfinished and never going to see the light of day :p
15:44<andythenorth>speak for yourself :P
15:45<andythenorth>most of my are v1.0 so officially No Longer My Problem
15:45<andythenorth>my / mine /s
15:45*andythenorth checks if that is true
15:45<andythenorth>HEQS done, and killed, CHIPS done, FIRS done.
15:46<andythenorth>FISH…hmm, don’t talk about that one
15:46<Supercheese>I think many of us tend to make some grfs for personal use that never get distributed
15:46<andythenorth>BANDIT killed
15:46<Phreeze>HEQS is cool
15:46<Supercheese>and then some more, and then some more...
15:46<andythenorth>HEQS is dead
15:46<V453000>andythenorth: I had something like this in mind some time ago
15:46<Phreeze>i use the big phat loaders :D
15:46<Supercheese>HEQS has achieved enlightenment
15:46<V453000>workers can be ignored
15:46<Supercheese>and transcended normal newgrf existence
15:46<V453000>key is 1 chain supporting the other and vice versa
15:47<andythenorth>V453000: you’re making shovels for mining?
15:47<andythenorth>and boots?
15:47<V453000>I guess :D
15:47<andythenorth>apparently the only way to get rich in a gold rush :P
15:47<Phreeze>you should play minecraft...
15:47<V453000>I mean, you could deliver food to workers too
15:48<andythenorth>V453000: the name has to be FRUIT
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15:49<V453000>the farming mayhem would be nice
15:49<V453000>FARM Adds Real Mayhem was my original intention
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15:51<andythenorth>peter1139: where is RoadTypes? o_O
15:52<andythenorth>V453000: I have often considered some kind of Market
15:52<andythenorth>deliver in [whatever] get FMSP
15:52<peter1139>Why bother? They'd only be a bad feature
15:52<andythenorth>well yes
15:52<andythenorth>but then we’d know
15:52<andythenorth>now we can only guess
15:52<andythenorth>also it might amuse me
15:52<andythenorth>or you
15:52<andythenorth>mostly you
15:53<andythenorth>V453000: is there a place for industries that trade instead of process? That’s what the ports do. It breaks all the ‘rules'
15:54<V453000>I mean, why not, it is a great hack to fix "not sensible" chains
15:54<@DorpsGek>Commit by peter1138 :: r26467 trunk/src/gfx.cpp (2014-04-16 19:54:51 UTC)
15:54<@DorpsGek>-Fix: Include shadow on ...
15:55<Supercheese>need a NoClip variable so elevated rails can run above roads can run above subways
15:55<Supercheese>or heck, just disable all vehicle collisions
15:55<Supercheese>bad feature D:
15:55<peter1139>3d maps
15:55<peter1139>like bnsmatz had once
15:56<frosch123>lol, how do you remember the "b.n." ?
16:02<andythenorth>V453000: so a Market is like a port, rate limited on production
16:02<V453000>I think it is a great thing
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16:05<andythenorth>V453000: what does it produce and accept?
16:05<andythenorth>I could just add port
16:05<andythenorth>code is there
16:05<V453000>that is the trick :D anything you want it to
16:05<andythenorth>what, you want me to design it :P
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16:06<andythenorth>you suck :P
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16:09<andythenorth>I dunno, accept Wool, Grain, Fruit
16:09<andythenorth>produce FMSP
16:09<V453000>I will give it some thought :P
16:09<andythenorth>needs two output cargos
16:10<andythenorth>you can see I really care about making this one good :)
16:10<V453000>:D yes :)
16:10<andythenorth>I am never going to play Full FIRS ever again
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16:13<V453000>or just making 1 kind of supplies :|
16:13<V453000>but that isnt quite optimal
16:13<idl0r>rubidium: hm, that's weird
16:13<V453000>at best have 2 or 3 kinds of supplies, while no primary can produce its own supplies
16:13<idl0r>it's not xdg itself it seems
16:13<V453000>so they are dependent on some other thing
16:13<V453000>-> means people like to connect more stuff
16:13<idl0r>Breakpoint 1, DeterminePaths (exe=0x7fffffffd5d0 "/home/idl0r/openttd-1.4-git/bin/openttd") at /home/idl0r/openttd-1.4-git/src/fileio.cpp:1282
16:14<idl0r>it fails to free dir=/home/idl0r/.openttd/scenario/heightmap/
16:14<idl0r>which is strlen is 40+1
16:14<idl0r>which has been allocated
16:15<idl0r>ah, wait
16:15*idl0r tries something
16:16<rubidium>the problem is that xdg-basedir did write beyond its buffer, likely corrupting the memory structures used for allocation
16:16<idl0r>but dir is a pointer created by openttd and allocated/filled through str_fmt
16:17<idl0r>and that memcpy failed to write 1 byte according to valgrind
16:17<andythenorth>V453000: I thought you were +1 on primary making own supplies? :o
16:17<andythenorth>I misunderstood?
16:18<V453000>it is better if someone else makes them for them
16:18<V453000>point is consistent system
16:18<V453000>( in such case no industry is able to make its own supplies )
16:18<andythenorth>so I really like HoD
16:19<andythenorth>which does allow making own supplies
16:19<andythenorth>but it’s all just trading, no long chains
16:19<andythenorth>long chains are over-rated
16:20<V453000>well trading makes it one huge chain :P
16:21<andythenorth>I bailed on my FIRS game last night
16:21<andythenorth>have to get coal to make steel, 20 tile trip, then iron ore (10 tiles), then scrap metal (50 tiles)
16:21<andythenorth>then haul the steel 100 tiles to make ENSP
16:21<andythenorth>then haul the ENSP back to get more coal
16:21<rubidium>idl0r: invalid reads do not cause invalid frees, writing beyond a buffer can
16:21<andythenorth>then haul more metal to foundry
16:22<rubidium>idl0r: any idea how memory is managed by malloc?
16:22<andythenorth>then find oil to make chemicals for foundry
16:22<andythenorth>can’t even use cdist to build spine routes with feeders
16:24<andythenorth>last time I tried spine routes, cdist seemed to get very confused and was back-loading or wrong-way loading cargo
16:25<rubidium>idl0r: in any case, if you allocate say 10 bytes, you will actually allocate a bit more (a few bytes for status information). This memory is before the pointer you get returned.
16:27<rubidium>now you allocate a new piece of memory which, and by chance (or rather due to the alloc size) it places this new (m)allocation directly before the previously malloced data. You now write beyond the just allocated buffer, which means you write into the status information of the first allocation
16:28<rubidium>upon freeing the first allocation it notices something is wrong, and it throws an invalid free because a "totally" unrelated allocation overwrote its allocated buffer
16:31<rubidium>once the corruption occured, it can take a while for it to actually manifest
16:35<idl0r>rubidium: you're right
16:35<Xaroth|Work>he often is
16:35<idl0r>i thought that was coming from openttd's DeterminePaths
16:35<idl0r>heh :D
16:36<V453000>just ignore cdist andy :)
16:36<frosch123>V453000: we just need a gs that punishes waiting cargo
16:36<rubidium>in any case, as long as libxdg-basedir writes beyond bounds, I am not going to chase an invalid free. Especially when you can trivially prove that there can't be two frees
16:36<frosch123>then andy will also get used to cdist
16:36<V453000>cdist is just useless
16:37<rubidium>idl0r: the invalid writes are "triggered" by Determine[Base]Paths calling a libxdg-basedir function
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16:38<andythenorth>anyway, here are my stupid metro systems
16:39<andythenorth>1 tile trains, 200 pax
16:39<andythenorth>only 40mph
16:39<rubidium>sounds like the green line in Boston
16:39<andythenorth>a lot of tinkering effort to build :P
16:40<andythenorth>signals in stations anyone? :P
16:40<idl0r>rubidium: and i just found the root cause
16:41<idl0r> line 579
16:42<rubidium>so... they didn't fix the bug... yay
16:43<idl0r>just added +1 on that malloc and everything is fine
16:43<frosch123>seriously? what kind of bug is that?
16:43<rubidium>frosch123: malloc(strlen), memcpy(strlen+1)
16:44<frosch123>ah, nevermind, i missed the malloc
16:44<frosch123>so, just obiwan
16:44<frosch123>i read it as strdup, memcpy to cat
16:44<idl0r>i'll prepare a patch for gentoo and fordward it to upstream (in case he's still active)
16:45<rubidium>it's pretty dead
16:45<idl0r>thought so
16:45<idl0r>i can forward that to the debian guys as well
16:45<idl0r>if there's none already
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16:47<blathijs>rubidium: Wasn't this that bug you reported a few months back already?
16:48<idl0r>ok, i'll take that one then
16:48<rubidium> <- the debian code
16:49<idl0r>ah, good
16:50<rubidium>I thought it was fixed upstream, but it wasn't... she just merged my fix into the packaging... ah well
16:51<idl0r>hrm.. has github no "patch" function? :(
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16:51<idl0r>well.. i'll just clone the other repo
16:52<frosch123> <- the changelog says "new upstream release" though
16:52<idl0r>upstream homepage is no longer available
16:52<idl0r>just the repos on github and so on
16:52<rubidium>idl0r: check the debian package, maybe that has a more up-to-date link
16:53<frosch123>hmm, ah, "1.2" is only new to debian, but it is from 2012 nevertheless
16:53<andythenorth>maybe I should make a Brit economy for FIRS
16:53<andythenorth>produces: moaning
16:53<rubidium>and equally broken
16:53<andythenorth>accepts: tea
16:53<andythenorth>problem is
16:53<andythenorth>Basic Temperate is already Brit
16:54<rubidium>it doesn't have enough flooding to be Brittish... or are the floods now gone?
16:56<andythenorth>dunno :P
16:56<frosch123>make a true brittish economy
16:56<frosch123>deliver pirate ships to harbors
16:56<frosch123>get gold in return
16:56<frosch123>spanish gold even
16:56<frosch123>or inka gold?
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16:57<andythenorth>frosch123: what is “Nothing” in SV?
16:58<andythenorth>also slaves
16:58<andythenorth>the English big on slaving
16:58<frosch123>it's not exactly "nothing"
16:59<frosch123>it may even be the best price :p
16:59<idl0r>great, works fine now
16:59<idl0r>thanks guys
16:59<andythenorth>FIRS nightly is super broken :O
16:59<andythenorth>let’s ignore that
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17:00<idl0r>btw. can you recommend some "addons" to make openttd more "shiny/realistic"? :P
17:00<idl0r>zbase looks pretty good but opengfx looks more "realistic" somehow
17:01<andythenorth>wtf is wrong with FIRS?
17:02<andythenorth>the 1.3.0 release is also broken
17:02<andythenorth>industries are repeated
17:02<andythenorth>naughty grf list
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17:22<@planetmaker>hi ho
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17:25<frosch123>pff, german grammar is hard
17:26<frosch123>i tried writing down the third person personal pronouns for all cases and genders...
17:26<frosch123>it took me ages to find those for neutrum
17:27<frosch123>and i messed up genitive by writing the possesive pronouns instead of the personal ones
17:27<frosch123>though i really wonder whether i have ever uses the neutrum genitiv personal pronom in my live...
17:29<@planetmaker>what do you try to achieve, frosch123 ?!
17:29<frosch123>planetmaker: i just wondered whether i would be able to to write them down :p
17:30<frosch123>and neutrum personal pronoms for genitive and dative feel really weird
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17:32<@planetmaker> <-- I'd say that, but probably somewhat wrong for neuter
17:33<frosch123>yay, you did the same mistake as i did :)
17:33*andythenorth plays a game
17:33<@planetmaker>so, what's right?
17:33<andythenorth>can we finish cdist? I’m bored of transfers
17:34<frosch123>sein/ihr/sein is possesive pronom, it should have been seiner/ihrer/seiner
17:34<frosch123>and you misssed plural
17:34<@planetmaker>oh, plurals
17:34<@planetmaker>let me add them :)
17:35<idl0r>wow, the difference..
17:35<idl0r>pretty amazing
17:36<@planetmaker>though there's only one plural form really. Satisfied?
17:36<@planetmaker>what difference, idl0r ?
17:36<idl0r>between the farm and the industry above it
17:36<idl0r>so graphics
17:37<idl0r>the industry is 32bpp
17:37<@planetmaker>that you mean. yes :)
17:37<idl0r>i hope there's more coming like that
17:38<@planetmaker>the 32bpp industry is part of zBase base set
17:38<@planetmaker>the farm of FIRS NewGRF
17:38<@planetmaker>(though FIRS likely defined everything for the mine except graphics)
17:38*andythenorth is an aging dinosaur
17:39<andythenorth>these smoking ships look good
17:39<rubidium>frosch123: just use Sie for everything
17:40<idl0r>i always loved ttd but somehow (nowadays) i couldn't play the orig. ttd just because of the graphics :(
17:41<idl0r>and i never found a decent replacement for (open)ttd
17:44<andythenorth>I can only play it because of 8bpp :)
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17:53<idl0r>i'll head to bed as well. night and thanks again :)
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18:48<Eddi|zuHause><idl0r> wow, the difference.. <-- besides having more pixels, the mine is actually pretty dull, graphics-wise
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20:55<Eddi|zuHause>"if tomatos are fruit, does that mean ketchup is a smoothie?"
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21:33<Supercheese>Smoothie with vinegar, yuck
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---Logclosed Thu Apr 17 00:00:06 2014