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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-04-19

---Logopened Sat Apr 19 00:00:34 2014
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01:34<andythenorth>o/
01:35<Supercheese>Salve
01:35<Rubidium>ave
01:41<andythenorth>urgh
01:42<andythenorth>positiioning trains against a specific railtype grf might cause sadness later
01:44<V453000>you cant possibly align to everything anyway :P
01:44<V453000>well you could but yeah
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01:46<andythenorth>I hate doing offsets
01:51<V453000>I can only agree with that
01:51<V453000>esp retarded for articulated multi-vehicles
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01:53<Supercheese>yeah offsets suck
01:56-!-LSky [~LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd
01:57<V453000>part of the reason why I like to make industries now :D
01:57<V453000>no vehicle shizz
02:05<andythenorth>:D
02:08<V453000>seriously making a model is so much easier than drawing a vehicle in 8 views
02:09<Supercheese>Yeah, rendering is definitely easier
02:09<Supercheese>I really should get around to coding my 32bpp renders
02:10<Supercheese>but I have to figure out the mask thingies
02:10<Supercheese>for action colors
02:10<V453000>I take shit on action colors so far
02:10<Supercheese>and also I'm busy translating thousands of strings into Latin
02:10<V453000>:d
02:11<V453000>who the fuck uses openttd in latin
02:11<Supercheese>because I'm crazy like that
02:11<Supercheese>and lots of other folks are crazy
02:11<V453000>luckily not me
02:11<Supercheese>you're NUTS
02:11<Supercheese>:D
02:12<V453000>current state is YETI
02:12<V453000>which is somewhere beyond NUTS
02:12<Supercheese>the ice man cometh
02:12<V453000>.
02:13<V453000>iron ore mine iz next
02:13<V453000>going to look suspiciously sane
02:14<andythenorth>APPARENTLY WE NEED DIAGONAL TUNNELS
02:15<andythenorth>AND TUNNELS UNDER THE SEA
02:15<V453000>AND TUNNELS ABOVE THE SEA
02:15<Supercheese>it's better down where it's wetter
02:15<Supercheese>unterseebahn
02:16<V453000> That's why I ran an Important Poll, to see what other people think.
02:16<V453000>:D:D:D
02:17<andythenorth>CAN’T ARGUE WITH A 4 YEAR OLD
02:18<andythenorth>can ask them to stop turning caps lock on though
02:18<Supercheese>Important Poll™
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02:27<V453000>lol
02:38<andythenorth>“Two railtypes, one tile”
02:38<andythenorth>?
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02:44<V453000>would be cute but universal rail fixes it :P
02:44<V453000>which firs is LATEST?
02:44<V453000>1.3.0?
02:47<andythenorth>latest release yes
02:48<V453000>is some wtf known to go wtf if I wtf Temperate Basic in wtf sub-tropic climate wtf?
02:48<V453000>in other words, does the economy change in any way?
02:48<andythenorth>nope
02:48<V453000>grayt
02:48<andythenorth>only climate dependent thing is sugar cane / sugar beet
02:49<V453000>aye
02:49<V453000>aint no sugar in temperate basic
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03:15<@planetmaker>moin
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03:22<V453000>moo
03:27<@planetmaker>andythenorth, only use the alignment as found by TTD (and for shorter / longer) vehicles an alignment compatible with that
03:27<@planetmaker>everything else will cause tears. I think
03:28<@planetmaker>and railtypes should heed just that, too: align tracks symmetric to the middle of TTD tracks
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03:32<V453000>that is +- what I did I believe
03:33<@planetmaker>I tried to that, too. Of course +- bugs :)
03:33<V453000>+- :)
03:33<@planetmaker>definitely +:)
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03:52<andythenorth>I am aligning to bounding box
03:52<andythenorth>maybe I should turn the default vehicles back on
03:52<andythenorth>and test with those
03:52<@planetmaker>yes
03:53<@planetmaker>frosch has some debug vehicles. Their alignments surely should fit. For all lengths
03:53<@planetmaker>there's a repo for those
03:58<Supercheese>oh $%@
03:58<Supercheese>some industry names are plural
03:59<Supercheese>but many strings have adjectives that depend on the industry
03:59<Supercheese>and would need to be pluralized if the industry is plural
03:59<Supercheese>and need to match gender as well
03:59<Supercheese>ugh
04:00<@Alberth>isn't translating strings fun? :p
04:00<Supercheese>how to fix
04:00-!-Phreeze [~p@vodsl-4744.vo.lu] has joined #openttd
04:00<Supercheese>make "plural" gender forms?
04:00<Rubidium>Supercheese: there is a solution for the pluralising of industry strings
04:01<Rubidium>just force every combination of current strings as strings in the language file ;)
04:02<Supercheese>I don't follow
04:03<Phreeze>hiho
04:03<Phreeze>q: when i get pure white warnings, WHY is that ? the sprites do not contain pure white
04:03<Rubidium>instead of STR_IND_OPEN :{INDUSTRY} opens, you get STR_COAL_OPEN: Coal mine opens, STR_PWR_OPEN:Power station opens, STR_OILRIG_OPEN:Oil rig opens, STR_OILWELL_OPEN:Oil wells open, ...
04:03<Phreeze>i got some serious "template problem", but i dont get why
04:04<Supercheese>you can do that?
04:04<andythenorth>me neither
04:04<@planetmaker>Phreeze, they do contain white pixels then, pretty sure
04:04<@planetmaker>maybe some highlight pixels?
04:04<Rubidium>Phreeze: if/when you are sure the sprites do not contain pure white, then the area around the sprite is included in the area that you cut out
04:04<Supercheese>I didn't think you could add new STR_*
04:04<andythenorth>Phreeze: why do you have a serious template problem? o_O
04:06<@planetmaker>Supercheese, STR_BLAH.case
04:07<Supercheese>yeah, but sounds like he's recommending whole new STR codes
04:07<@planetmaker>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/eints/nightlies/LATEST/docs/ applies nearly 1:1 to OpenTTD strings, too
04:07<Rubidium>Supercheese: well, I mean replacing all strings with {INDUSTRY} in them to create the ~40 strings for each replaced string. Then also adding all those industry related strings to the NewGRF specification, so each NewGRF needs to contain the basically all the industry related strings for all its industries. It is possible, but the amount of strings would skyrocket
04:07<Supercheese>oh, you weren't entirely serious I see
04:07<@planetmaker>Rubidium, he talks of OpenTTD itself ;)
04:08<@planetmaker>so were you. More tea
04:08<Rubidium>Supercheese: it would only be about 500 strings more
04:08<Supercheese>more beer ;)
04:08<@planetmaker>for breakfast? Hm...
04:08<Supercheese>I think it would be easier to add "plural" genders
04:09<Supercheese>I think German took that route in at least one instance
04:10<Rubidium>or about 1500 if the CARGO were to be replaced in the same way
04:10<Phreeze>[10:04:48] <andythenorth> Phreeze: why do you have a serious template problem? o_O
04:10<Rubidium>but yes... plurals are the way to go
04:10<Phreeze>in fact, around the sprites, there can be pure white
04:10<Rubidium>s/plurals/genders/
04:10<Phreeze>but as it's not part of the "sprite" it self, why does it matter ?
04:10<Phreeze>and: my template goes, in the worst case, until lets say picel 200
04:11<Rubidium>Phreeze: because you tell which part of the sheet is a particular sprite. If you cut it out too big, you will get some of those white pixels
04:11<Phreeze>*pixel 200. but when i cut of my PNG at lets say pixel 210, it cant compile
04:11<Rubidium>the white pixel warning is exactly there to tell you that you cut it out incorrectly
04:12<Phreeze>template tmpl_vehicle_basic8(x, y) { -> has at most: [x+153, y, 22, 20, -6, -12]
04:12<Phreeze>which is called here: tmpl_vehicle_basic8(reversed ? 89 : 1, 1 + 32 * num)
04:12<Phreeze>so basically, at MOST 89 + 153
04:13<Rubidium>@calc 89+153
04:13<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 242
04:13<Phreeze>;)
04:13<Phreeze>when i then cut the png at X = 243 or even more, i get an error...
04:13<Rubidium>plus the 22 of the width, so the sprite sheet needs to be at least 264 pixels wide
04:13<Phreeze>makes sense
04:14<Phreeze>(i think i did try that already....i'll try it again)
04:14<Rubidium>after all, the x+153 (so 242) is the left side of the sprite, the 22 gives you the width
04:14<Phreeze>yeah but anyway, "visually" i can cut it after the 8th sprite, right ?
04:15<Rubidium>so if reversed is false and num is 0, then it will get the sprite from x = 154..175 (inclusive), and y = 1..20 (inclusive)
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04:15<Phreeze>hm wait a secend....
04:16<Phreeze>yes exactly, just checked
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04:17<Phreeze>i think the reverse template is the problem
04:17<Phreeze>tmpl_vehicle_basic8(reversed ? 89 : 1, 1 + 32 * num)
04:17<Phreeze>called with lets say (0,1)
04:18<Phreeze>num = 0, so "first" sprite set, reversed = 1 so x starts with 89
04:18<Phreeze>which is ok, for 4 sprites ! but the last 4 do not even exist
04:18<Phreeze>(i don't even know why my gfx work...)
04:19<Phreeze>template tmpl_vehicle_8_views8(num, reversed) {
04:19<Phreeze> tmpl_vehicle_basic8(reversed ? 89 : 1, 1 + 32 * num)
04:19<Phreeze> tmpl_vehicle_basic8(reversed ? 1 : 89, 1 + 32 * num)
04:19<Phreeze>}
04:20<Phreeze>that's the full code. why do i have 2 lines in that bracket !?!? maybe to get the first 4 sprites... but still this is a BAD function
04:27<Phreeze>(i chocked people now.... btw i have the reverse funciton from the 2cc set)
04:34<@Alberth>copying code is fine, but if you don't understand it, you're very screwed if it fails
04:34<@Alberth>in my experience, nothing beats figuring it out yourself from scratch
04:34<@Alberth>the only disadvantage is that it costs time
04:35<@Alberth>but that's relative, as a non-working template also costs time :)
04:36<peter1139>Boobs.
04:36<andythenorth>this is not a calculator
04:37<@Alberth>tinac? :)
04:38<andythenorth>eh?
04:38<andythenorth>I crashed it
04:39<peter1139>58008
04:39<peter1139>55378008
04:39<andythenorth>70177345
04:40<peter1139>Indeed.
04:40<andythenorth>^^ this is how we teach programming in the UK
04:40<andythenorth>some people learn O(n), we learn to make jokes
04:41<peter1139>Yeah, they were the results of some sums.
04:41<peter1139>Although I don't remember the sums now :p
04:42<andythenorth>x amount of iraqi tanks + y amount of iranian tanks
04:42<andythenorth>what are they fighting over?
04:43<peter1139>710, btw
04:43<andythenorth>oh I can’t spell :P
04:45<V453000>666
04:48<@Alberth>fighting for glory of the empire of course
04:53<Phreeze>what is the puprose of a cargotable ? why not just include all possible default, ecs, firs cargo ? is it "bad" to just use a mega cargotable ?
04:53<andythenorth>how would you include all possible defaults? o_O
04:53<andythenorth>what method?
04:54<peter1139>andythenorth, "AAAA" "AAAB" "AAAC" "AAAD" "AAAE" ...
04:54<andythenorth>ooh
04:54<andythenorth>good call
04:54<Phreeze>cargotable {
04:54<Phreeze> PASS, MAIL, GOOD, COAL,
04:54<Phreeze> TOUR, GRAI, IORE, WHEA,
04:54<andythenorth>I could generate that
04:54<Phreeze>and then add everything that exists
04:54<Phreeze>in default and ecs and firs
04:54<andythenorth>yeah, that’s a good solution
04:55<@Alberth>that's not everything
04:55<andythenorth>Phreeze: you want a cargo table?
04:55<andythenorth>I can paste you one
04:55<Phreeze>yep, a FULL ^^
04:55<andythenorth>dunno if it’s full
04:55<andythenorth>hang on
04:55<Phreeze>in fact a full for default cargo, ecs and firs
04:55<Phreeze>so the grf will be compatible with those
04:56<Phreeze>i really should start playing some firs....to better figure out how those materials should look on a wagon
04:56<@Alberth>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/CargoTypes#Cargo_Labels ?
04:56<Phreeze>thx alberth, i am already on that site ;) but i'm too lazy to type them 1 by 1
04:56<andythenorth>Phreeze: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3243/
04:56<andythenorth>dunno what’s missing
04:56<peter1139>andythenorth, yeah... http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/ct.txt
04:57<andythenorth>peter1139: tempting
04:57<Phreeze>lol peter xD
04:57<@Alberth>Phreeze: you know about copy/paste and about text editors?
04:57<Phreeze>i know even more about "dont invent the wheel a 2nd time"
04:58<peter1139>In many years from now, I'll find that file and wonder what it's for.
04:58<@Alberth>:)
04:58<andythenorth>peter1139: only 2.2MB
04:58<andythenorth>hmm
04:58<andythenorth>I crashed it again
04:58<peter1139>Yeah, and I missed out numbers. Technically labels don't have to be alphanumeric, do they?
04:59<andythenorth>reloading newgrfs doesn’t _usually_ crash it
04:59<Phreeze>i'll add a full cargo table to the wiki i guess
04:59*andythenorth wonders where FIRS cargotable is
04:59<@Alberth>peter1139: you also missed _
05:00<andythenorth>_ is important
05:00<@Alberth>Phreeze: that link is the full table
05:00<andythenorth>_OIL
05:00<andythenorth>or whatever
05:00<@Alberth>O2__
05:00<peter1139>710_
05:00<V453000>OIL_
05:00<V453000>I think
05:00<peter1139>It could've been "OIL " or "Oil "
05:01<peter1139>Imagine if everyone used different cases...
05:01<andythenorth>710
05:01<andythenorth>lol
05:01<andythenorth>or as we say 101
05:01<andythenorth>eh?
05:01*andythenorth still can’t spell
05:01<peter1139>Lol. (As some people write.)
05:01<andythenorth>what kind of education didn’t I get?
05:02<peter1139>Sex
05:02<andythenorth>let’s see if I can crash it again
05:02<V453000>start for iron ore mine? (: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/iron_ore_mine_01.png
05:02<andythenorth>it hates me
05:02<andythenorth>V453000: will it be mined by dwarves on ladders?
05:03<V453000>yetis
05:04<andythenorth>V453000: do you know that yetis aren’t real? Just saying...
05:04<V453000>dwarves == yetis
05:04<Phreeze>Alberth i mean, add the NML code to it, so people can just copy paste the table ;)
05:05<peter1139>So yet more people can c&p without understanding?
05:05<andythenorth>cargo tables should be generated
05:05<andythenorth>using pythons
05:05*peter1139 generates andythenorth
05:05<@Alberth>Phreeze: that will fail, as people do not update information at more than one place
05:05<andythenorth>someone already did that
05:05<Phreeze>hm
05:05<andythenorth>I wasn’t aware this was a discussion about religion though
05:05<@Alberth>even just one place is difficult enough
05:06<andythenorth>we should make an online CTT generator
05:06<Phreeze>peter1139 there isn't much that you can't understand in a cargo table ;) besides not knowing what the 4 letters stand for
05:06<@Alberth>isn't there a max number of supported cargos?
05:06<peter1139>Probably 255 for a cargo table.
05:06<peter1139>or 254 in some cases.
05:07<@Alberth>oh, plenty of room thus
05:07<peter1139>Only 32 can be active of course.
05:07<@Alberth>Phreeze: how are you to assign graphics to cargos then?
05:07<Phreeze>challenge: use a 255 cargotable and draw a 4stage loading/unloading sprite for each cargo
05:07<Phreeze>DIAM: sg_rilns_small;
05:08<Phreeze>like that ?
05:09<@Alberth>I don't know, but it seems to me that you need more than just a table with many 4-letter words
05:09*Alberth adds LOVE
05:09*andythenorth thinks of some words
05:09<andythenorth>can only think of 3 so far
05:09<andythenorth>4
05:09<andythenorth>5
05:09<andythenorth>6
05:10<peter1139>What a massive vocabulary.
05:10<@Alberth>sufficient :)
05:10<andythenorth>7
05:10*andythenorth wonders about hindi swear words
05:10<peter1139>-static const char rnd_seed[] = "string to make the random number generator think it has entropy";
05:11<peter1139>openssl o_O
05:11<andythenorth>in my next train set, all trains will be 8/8
05:11<andythenorth>much simpler
05:12<andythenorth>@seen danmack
05:12<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: danmack was last seen in #openttd 14 hours, 59 minutes, and 49 seconds ago: <DanMacK> likewise
05:13<peter1139>Much boringer.
05:14<andythenorth>setting offsettings is boringer
05:14<peter1139>Should be simple maths.
05:14<andythenorth>for me, it is simple numbers
05:14<andythenorth>I did consider reading src
05:14<andythenorth>:P
05:15<andythenorth>to see how the calculations are done, then reversing them :P
05:15<andythenorth>but that would require a smart andythenorth
05:16<Phreeze>people that can watch german SWR: theres a docu about bulgarian steamers
05:18-!-Pikka [~Octomom@d110-32-11-122.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd
05:19<andythenorth>evening Pikka
05:19<Pikka>it does
05:19<Pikka>what ho?
05:19<andythenorth>how is Brisvegas?
05:19<Pikka>smashing
05:20<andythenorth>getting cold yet?
05:20<NGC3982>Morning. :-)
05:20<andythenorth>wearing socks?
05:20<Phreeze>lol
05:20<Pikka>no, but I'm considering shutting the window at some point
05:20<Phreeze>it's always warm in australia :D (clichee told me)
05:23<NGC3982>Are there regions i Australia that has periodic snow?
05:23<andythenorth>V453000: are you using realistic textures?
05:24<V453000>+-
05:24<V453000>totally not in real world scale
05:24<V453000>but more or less "realistic" yes
05:24<V453000>just what looks nice
05:24<Phreeze>working on 32bpp ?
05:24<Phreeze>as you posted that mine
05:24<andythenorth>considered a limited palette?
05:25<V453000>idk
05:25<V453000>possibly
05:25<V453000>probably not
05:25<Pikka>NGC3982, welcome to australia: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Towards_Kosciuszko_from_Kangaroo_Ridge_in_winter.jpg
05:25<NGC3982>I see.
05:25<andythenorth>where are the roos?
05:26<Pikka>under the snow
05:26<Phreeze>lol
05:26<Phreeze>they are like "wtf?"
05:26<andythenorth>hibernating
05:26<andythenorth>http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/4309298-3x2-940x627.jpg
05:28*andythenorth teaches the compile to say ‘done’ when it’s done
05:28<andythenorth>a watched shell never boils
05:28<Pikka>what about when it's not?
05:28<andythenorth>yeah
05:28<andythenorth>then it chokes on the errors, and doesn’t tell you
05:29<andythenorth>you have to remember and go look :P
05:29<andythenorth>also whoever set this particular yoffs was smoking crack
05:29<andythenorth>or halucinates floating hopper cars
05:30<Pikka>the yoffs today are out of control
05:30<andythenorth>I blame rock music
05:31<andythenorth>also, do I actually *want* to listen to Enya
05:31<andythenorth>that would be weird
05:31<andythenorth>my future contains it, unless I move this playlist
05:34<Pikka>move every 'playlist'
05:35<peter1139>move every zig
05:35<Pikka>give that man a coconut, he got the reference. :)
05:35<peter1139>for great justice
05:36<peter1139>That meme is so old we didn't even call them meme back then.
05:36<peter1139>Any loads of people will never have heard of it.
05:37<Pikka>any.
05:38*NGC3982 just saw a "Pika" animal on Planet Earth.
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05:42*andythenorth moves any mountain
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05:43<Phreeze>i wonder when fucking microsoft comes with an "always on top" function for ANY program
05:43<andythenorth>quite a special video :o
05:44<andythenorth>‘we have filters and aren’t scared to apply them'
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05:46<NGC3982>Phreeze: I don't get why that needs to be a program specific function.
05:46<NGC3982>I want stuff like that to be OS implemented.
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05:51<Phreeze>NGC3982 what i said
05:51<Phreeze>i want my small chrome window with my sat-stream to be alwas on top
05:51<Phreeze>over IRC e.g
05:51<NGC3982>Indeed.
05:51<Phreeze>so that on the 2nd screen i can work
05:53<peter1139>Use a decent OS then.
05:54<andythenorth>can’t you just get some utility to do it?
05:54<Phreeze>like what peter ?
05:54<andythenorth>windoze must have one
05:54<Phreeze>like linux where almost nothing i use works ? :)
05:54<andythenorth>search for ‘float window’
05:55<andythenorth>and whatever windows version you use
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05:55*Phreeze looks that up
05:55<andythenorth>windows 8 can do it by default?
05:56-!-Guest6939 [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:56*andythenorth is misreading wikipedia
05:56<andythenorth>I have seen a windows 8 once
05:56<Phreeze>i have win 8.1.1
05:58<andythenorth>searching for ‘floating window windows 8’ has issues :P
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06:00<Phreeze>i found one
06:00<Phreeze>but dont trust it
06:00<Phreeze>an exe coming in a zip from box
06:00<Phreeze>...
06:00<Phreeze>virustotal online scan only had 1 alert, w32.trojan
06:01<Phreeze>ah got a chrome addon
06:05<Phreeze>http://www.fadsoft.net/AlwaysOnTopMaker.htm
06:05<Phreeze>works perfectly
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06:08<andythenorth>bloody bloody offsets
06:08<andythenorth>bloody bloody eels
06:14<Pikka>why isn't it
06:14<Pikka>what's wrong with the offsets?
06:18<andythenorth>me
06:19<Pikka>fair enough
06:19<andythenorth>can’t be helped :(
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06:28<andythenorth>looks quite nice when they all line up :)
06:28<Pikka>do they line up with other sets?
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06:32<andythenorth>dunno yet
06:32<andythenorth>I thought I’d fix everything in detail before testing that
06:41<peter1139>Isn't the trick to place the vehicle at the head end of an 8-long bounding box?
06:41<Eddi|zuHause><Supercheese> and would need to be pluralized if the industry is plural <-- german translation uses gender for that. basically you duplicate the genders between singular and plural. in the case of german, the plural has only one form for all genders, so they get combined. resulting in 4 "genders": male, female, neutral and plural
06:44<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: when i did my offsets, i attached my long wagons to an original engine
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07:26<Pikka>implying original vehicles have "correct" offsets ;)
07:27<V453000>(:
07:29<Phreeze>lol
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07:30<V453000>well aligning vehicles to original tracks tends to be nice
07:30<V453000>not necessarily to the vehicles
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07:44<andythenorth>hmm
07:44<andythenorth>IH disagrees with opengfx+ and NARS trains
07:45<andythenorth>by 1 or 2 pixels for a few angles
07:45<andythenorth>nvm
07:45<andythenorth>Pikka: care to peruse and mock?
07:46<Pikka>k
07:46<Eddi|zuHause>Pikka: it's the closest to a standard we have
07:46<andythenorth>Pikka: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/iron-horse/push/LATEST/
07:48<andythenorth>note to previous self, don’t switch between NG and normal trains when setting offsets
07:48<andythenorth>set normal first, then do NG :P
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07:53<Pikka>different offsets nw vs se and sw vs ne? :P
07:54<frosch123>yay, every day a new poll
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07:57<Phreeze>^^
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08:09<andythenorth>Pikka: sounds like a bug in andythenorth
08:09<andythenorth>I just tried to fit them to the bounding boxes in game :P
08:09<andythenorth>but as the vehicles are 3-part articulated
08:09<andythenorth>and the bounding boxes are unreliably displayed...
08:10<Pikka>hmm
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08:19<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the offsets for the directions are not the same, because the back of the bounding box not the center matters
08:20<frosch>yup, if you are using ottd 1.1
08:20<Eddi|zuHause>but the difference is constant
08:20<Eddi|zuHause>frosch: NewGRF offsets did not change
08:20<frosch>but the bounding boxes did
08:21<andythenorth>this was all ok when the set just used Pikka templates :)
08:21<andythenorth>then we…changed
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09:32<@planetmaker>so I asked for the sources for firmware of my router. The only reply I got so far was along the lines "Thanks for your interest in our produces. We'll provide the sources in a timely manner. Thanks for your understanding that it may take a bit longer due to the holidays"
09:39<Eddi|zuHause>that's not a "no"
09:39<Eddi|zuHause>and the holidays are not over yet
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10:59<@Alberth>hi andy
11:07<andythenorth>lo
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11:18<Wolf01>hi hi
11:19<andythenorth>hi Wolf01
11:40<andythenorth>hmm
11:40<andythenorth>depot view
11:40<andythenorth>is a mess
11:40<andythenorth>in IH
11:40*andythenorth has work to do :P
11:48<andythenorth>ho
11:48<andythenorth>so I actually have to replicate all the spritesets for the depot view
11:48<andythenorth>fun fun fun
11:49<Wolf01>I need a new mouse
11:50<andythenorth>is it just for historical reasons that depot requires different train offsets?
11:50<andythenorth>or is there something I’m missing?
11:50<andythenorth>because providing everything twice, including all the cargo states….seems overkill
11:51<andythenorth>are all you train people just used to doing that?
11:54<peter1139>Depot... cargo states... what?
11:55<Eddi|zuHause>http://www.haskellforall.com/2014/04/worst-practices-are-viral-for-wrong.html <-- somehow i have to think of andythenorth when reading this
11:57<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: https://twitter.com/PHP_CEO
11:59<Wolf01>I read "ask hell for all", then I figured out it was haskell
12:00<andythenorth>I know some haskell programmers
12:00<Wolf01>I recognize my company on that article :P
12:00<andythenorth>Wolf01: we recognise all of our companies :P
12:00<Wolf01>the bad is that I recognize myself in that
12:01<andythenorth>Wolf01: recognition is first step to cure
12:02<Wolf01>but I think I can't improve better than I'm now :(
12:02<Wolf01>I just can't keep up with the work
12:05<andythenorth>Wolf01: https://twitter.com/PHP_CEO/status/439398458529972224
12:05<Wolf01>ahah
12:06<andythenorth>peter1139: what? Depot view seems to need a different y offset
12:06<andythenorth>I thought that was fixed by some rarely-visited part of newgrf spec, but I can’t find it :P
12:08<Pikka>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/GlobalVariables#Y-Offset_for_train_sprites_.280E_.2F_8E.29 andythenorth
12:08<andythenorth>yay for pikkas
12:08<peter1139>Yeah, that one.
12:10<Eddi|zuHause>that's a line you put in the header of every GRF and forget
12:10*andythenorth feels like a noob
12:10<andythenorth>never made a train before :(
12:10<Pikka>for hysterical raisins it is a grf parameter which must be set with action D, rather than a global action 0 property
12:11*andythenorth looks for it in nml
12:14<Pikka>you probably also want to set http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/GlobalVariables#Misc._GRF_Features_.281E_.2F_9E.29 to get 32px long depot vehicles, too.
12:14<Eddi|zuHause>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:General <-- bottom
12:14<Pikka>traininfo_y_offset, train_width_32_px
12:15<andythenorth>ho, all these hax :)
12:15<andythenorth>thanks
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12:16<Eddi|zuHause>no hex needed in nml
12:17<Pikka>no hex needed in nfo
12:17<andythenorth>hmm, child has got in a box
12:17<andythenorth>and is doing a poo
12:17<Pikka>silly child
12:19<andythenorth>he has to poo somewhere
12:19<Pikka>true, in a box is certainly not the worst option
12:20<peter1139>In her box is.
12:20<Pikka>stop that
12:20<peter1139>Okay.
12:20<Pikka>it went that way
12:21<peter1139>train_width_26_pix
12:21<peter1139>-i
12:21<peter1139>or whatever the shortened length is :S
12:22<andythenorth>nmlc doesn’t evaluate True to 1?
12:22<andythenorth>:P
12:22<andythenorth>nvm
12:24<Eddi|zuHause>maybe it's case sensitive?
12:25<Eddi|zuHause>or maybe nobody ever thought of it?
12:26<andythenorth>so that fixes some depot stuff
12:27<andythenorth>as a slave to 3-part vehicles, I still have to fix the x offset :D
12:30<peter1139>Main priority with offsets: avoid vehicles jumping when they change angle
12:33<andythenorth>mine do that a bit
12:34<andythenorth>if I get around to playing a game, it will annoy me enough to fix it
12:34*andythenorth seriously considers writing code to calculate offsets
12:36-!-DanMacK [~0a0a6574@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd
12:36<DanMacK>Hey all
12:37<andythenorth>lo DanMacK
12:38<DanMacK>how goes it?
12:40<andythenorth>nml template parameters can’t be optional?
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13:00<andythenorth>ha ha
13:00<andythenorth>finally this grf stops looking crappy :)
13:01<frosch>deleting stuff again? :p
13:01<andythenorth>not quite that good
13:01<andythenorth>fixing
13:01<andythenorth>by actual fixing, instead of fix by delete
13:02<andythenorth>oh what larks
13:02<andythenorth>I fixed depot view
13:02<andythenorth>now buy menu is borked :D
13:03<andythenorth>traininfo_y_offset applies to buy menu
13:03<andythenorth>hmm
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13:29<Phreeze>test
13:29<Phreeze>hm..weird
13:30<Phreeze>my openttd crashes all the time at start....is there a way to debug that ?
13:30<Phreeze>now it's ok..it was while scanning for newgrfs
13:31<@planetmaker>there's gdb for that
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13:45<DanMacK>Hey Jacopo
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26471 /trunk/src/lang (5 files) (2014-04-19 17:45:28 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>catalan - 4 changes by juanjo
13:45<@DorpsGek>simplified_chinese - 79 changes by xiangyigao
13:45<@DorpsGek>english_US - 8 changes by Supercheese
13:45<@DorpsGek>indonesian - 7 changes by Yoursnotmine
13:45<@DorpsGek>italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv
13:47<Eddi|zuHause>Phreeze: "make run-gdb"
13:49<Eddi|zuHause>why is there no "make bundle_rpm"?
13:49<Eddi|zuHause>(or deb)
13:53<Phreeze>make wtf
13:53<Phreeze>i'm using windows...
13:53<peter1139>Silly.
13:54<Phreeze>what are you using ?
13:54<Eddi|zuHause>"das ist ein Grund, aber kein Hindernis"
13:54-!-andythenorth [~Andy@host-78-149-99-22.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
13:54<Phreeze>haters are dumb, stupid and just retard...srsly
13:55<peter1139>Yup, so dumb I never got a line of code committed.
13:56<Eddi|zuHause>yes, no commit ever says "peter1139"
13:56<Phreeze>probably your fault ?
13:56<Phreeze>comit in sense of tortoise e.g ?
13:56<Phreeze>or compiling it on windows ? both works, you lack of skills
13:57<Phreeze>and you can still run your linux in a VM
13:57<Phreeze>-> /end of my linux vs windows discussion
13:59<peter1139>Eddi|zuHause, cute isn't it.
14:06<peter1139>Hmm, could do with a 1/4" jack extension lead :S
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14:12<Eddi|zuHause>peter1139: actually i lied, there is one
14:13<Eddi|zuHause>@commit 2850
14:13<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: Commit by miham :: r2850 trunk/newgrf.c (2005-08-11 12:51:59 UTC)
14:13<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: [newgrf] Patch from peter1139
14:13<frosch>yay, commit message style
14:14<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, we should fire this miham guy
14:14-!-Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:15<peter1139>:D
14:16<Eddi|zuHause>and what a crazy diff that is
14:16<Eddi|zuHause>-static uint16 grf_load_dword(byte **buf)
14:16<Eddi|zuHause>+static uint32 grf_load_dword(byte **buf)
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>http://www.synacktiv.com/ressources/TCP32764_backdoor_again.pdf
14:25<@Alberth>nice :p
14:28<LordAro>:D
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14:45<peter1139>Nice.
14:46<peter1139>$ python poc.py --shell
14:46<peter1139>ERROR
14:46<peter1139>:-(
14:47<Wolf01>next mouse => touch pad at the place of the wheel/3rd button
14:48<Wolf01>too bad I can't use the one of my laptop on the desktop as I don't have bluetooth
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15:06<andythenorth>is a dual-gauge railtype a wise idea? o_O
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15:09<peter1139>Yes but no.
15:10<andythenorth>better not to
15:10<Eddi|zuHause>i probably will make an optional one, if i ever start the railtype grf
15:11<Snail>andythenorth: graphics would be a pain (at least at original zoom)
15:12<Eddi|zuHause>offsets will probably be bad
15:17<frosch>hmm, maybe that's the idea behind rct
15:17<frosch>no discusson about dual-gauge coasters
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15:23<@Alberth>I'm sure they'll find something else to discuss about :)
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15:25<V453000>first YETI investment :D membership on texture server
15:28<Snail>hmm, something strange is happening using grfcodec 6.0.4
15:29<Snail>it tells me a .PNG file is too “short”, i.e. I’m referencing Y axis 110 - 130, while the file only has 90 pixels on the Y axis
15:29<Snail>however, in my NFO code, I’m actually referencing lines from 70 to around 82
15:30<Snail>it seems grfcodec is mixing the Y locations with the next sprite's...
15:30<Snail>and this didn’t happen with grfcodec 6.0.3
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15:36<@planetmaker>Snail, then please create a small test case which shows that behaviour. Bug tracker is at http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/grfcodec
15:37<Snail>ok… I’m going to put the NFO and the graphic files
15:37-!-Djohaal [~Djohaal@189.58.1.167.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd
15:37<Djohaal>hm
15:39<Djohaal>so any good working daylenght patches?
15:39<@planetmaker>yet I do not where that difference can be found between 6.0.3 and 6.0.4: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3244/
15:40<Snail>one other difference is that 6.0.3 doesn’t work anymore with the universal libpng
15:41<Snail>this is why I had to upgrade
15:41<Snail>whenever I run 6.0.3 now, it tells me “ dyld: Library not loaded: /opt/local/lib/libpng14.14.dylib “
15:41<frosch>Snail: if you are using nfo32, then x and y got swapped in order
15:41<frosch>compared to nfo7
15:42<peter1139>Yeah, I was just thinking that.
15:42<Snail>frosch: I’m still compiling my set in 8bpp
15:42<@planetmaker>where are your 123? You're now blue-green and not yellow anymore :P
15:42<@planetmaker>Snail, *that* is unrelated to using nfo32
15:42<frosch>something broke this morning
15:42<Snail>hmm, ok. So this is a question for MB and his m4nfo :)
15:42<frosch>just check the first two lines of the nfo
15:42<frosch>it should specify the nfo version
15:45<Snail>ok, let me check
15:46<Snail>the first two (non-commented) lines are:
15:46<Snail>0 * 4 27 25 00 00
15:46<Snail>1 * 0 01 00 b6 08
15:46<frosch>i mean the commented ones :)
15:47<frosch>it should say something like "do not modify - grfcodec is that silly"
15:47<frosch>and "nfo version xxx"
15:48<Snail>oh, ok
15:48<Snail>thought they were irrelevant :p here they are:
15:48<Snail>/ Automatically generated by GRFCODEC. Do not modify!
15:48<Snail>/ (Info version 7)
15:48<Snail>/ Format: spritenum pcxfile xpos ypos compression ysize xsize xrel yrel
15:48<Snail>so it’s still nfo7 I guess?
15:48<frosch>yup
15:49<peter1139>xpos ypos?
15:49<peter1139>That's not version 7
15:49<frosch>it is
15:49<frosch>nfo 7 is x y y x x y
15:49<peter1139>Oh it's size that's swapped :p
15:49<frosch>those three lines are perfect examples wrt. what is wrong with grfcodec :)
15:50<Snail>hmm
15:51<Snail>yes that’s right. Very confusing when writing the offsets
15:51<Snail>anyway, this means it’s not the source of my problem
15:51<andythenorth>this game needs to hurry up and build a fertiliser plant
15:54<andythenorth>V453000: btw the rule of ‘no positive feedbacks’ for industry sets is absolutely not needed
15:54<andythenorth>the game I am playing tells me that it’s fine and fun
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16:07<Pikka>did you delete full firs yet?
16:07<Pikka>like the poll suggested you ought?
16:08<frosch>there were some follow up polls since then
16:09<Pikka>those polls misrepresented the whatnots
16:10<frosch>well, that applies to many polls
16:10<frosch>maybe it's the nature of a poll
16:10*peter1139 ponders staying on Squeeze, now that LTS has been announced.
16:11<@planetmaker>squeeze as lts? really?
16:11<peter1139>Yes.
16:11<peter1139>Not that long though. Feb 2016.
16:11<peter1139>And i386/amd64 only.
16:22<andythenorth>Pikka: not deleted
16:22<andythenorth>maybe a new poll is needed
16:22<andythenorth>‘should polls be allowed?'
16:22<Pikka>yes but no-one will trust your polls now :)
16:22<andythenorth>I *did* fix up enough of hoss and ship alpha-5
16:22<Eddi|zuHause>just change the default value for every release :)
16:22<Pikka>you'll misrepresent them
16:24<andythenorth>naughty andythenorth
16:24<andythenorth>BAD
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16:39<andythenorth>also sleepy andythenorth
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17:03<frosch>night
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17:41<Wolf01>sleepy me too, night all
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22:00<Djohaal_>pereba...
22:01<Djohaal_>something is fishy
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---Logclosed Sun Apr 20 00:00:36 2014