Back to Home / #openttd / 2014 / 04 / Prev Day | Next Day
#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-04-21

---Logopened Mon Apr 21 00:00:38 2014
00:12-!-Snail [] has quit [Quit: Snail]
00:55-!-George|2 [~George@] has joined #openttd
00:55-!-George is now known as Guest7059
00:55-!-George|2 is now known as George
00:56-!-Eddi|zuHause2 [] has joined #openttd
01:00-!-Guest7059 [~George@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:03-!-Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:13-!-Supercheese [~Superchee@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
01:14-!-Supercheese [~Superchee@] has joined #openttd
01:58-!-Supercheese [~Superchee@] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes]
02:04-!-Supercheese [~Superchee@] has joined #openttd
02:05<Supercheese>Google Translate actually isn't half bad going from Latin -> English
02:05<Supercheese>its English -> Latin is horrible though
02:16-!-LSky [] has joined #openttd
02:20-!-tokai|mdlx [] has joined #openttd
02:26-!-tokai|noir [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:26-!-George is now known as Guest7066
02:26-!-George [~George@] has joined #openttd
02:30-!-Guest7066 [~George@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:33-!-Pensacola [] has joined #openttd
02:34-!-andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
02:37*andythenorth went in suggestions forum
02:38<andythenorth>or as I currently call it, the “confused, wrong or whining”
02:39<andythenorth>we should just have polls
02:39<andythenorth>then re-title them
02:40<@planetmaker>we should suggest more polls?
02:40<@planetmaker>totally +1.
02:40<@planetmaker>Keeps them occupied. Thus maybe less whining :D
02:44<Supercheese>eh, I doubt it
02:46<@planetmaker>totally +1 on your posting, Supercheese :) Though we also got a complaint about that being backseat moderation - which I dispute it being
02:46<@planetmaker>I consider it a favour being said
02:46<Supercheese>I've been restraining myself
02:47<@planetmaker>favour that you said it, instead of a mod
02:47<@planetmaker>or he would also start whining about the evil mods, too
02:48<Supercheese>the Whine is strong with him
02:49<@planetmaker>lol, yeah :P
02:50<@planetmaker>I'll send my air force, some sea hawk to feast on that:
03:06-!-planetmaker [] has left #openttd [Verlassend]
03:06-!-planetmaker [] has joined #openttd
03:06-!-mode/#openttd [+o planetmaker] by ChanServ
03:06-!-planetmaker is "Ingo von Borstel" on @#openttd #openttdcoop.devzone #debian @+#openttdcoop.nightly @+#openttdcoop.stable @+#openttdcoop +#openDune #oftc #openttdcoop.bots
03:09<Rubidium>okay... I just had to make a post after Supercheese ;)
03:10<@planetmaker>nice one! :)
03:37<andythenorth>Rubidium: I would just revert the feature
03:37<andythenorth>first one to whine is the one that causes a revert
03:38<andythenorth>start a new thread, pinned, in bold.
03:39<andythenorth>“Names of users who caused features to be removed"
03:39<andythenorth>winner is the one who causes the final feature to be removed
03:39<andythenorth>inverse “First post!”
03:39<Supercheese>the winning whining eh
03:47-!-Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd
03:47-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
04:09<andythenorth>I am very +1 to changing the payment
04:10<andythenorth>it would make a lot more sense for payment to increase as distance decreases
04:10<andythenorth>more logical
04:10<andythenorth>if we allow that transporting 0 tiles is infinite payment, then just divide by number of tiles
04:10<andythenorth>should work well
04:17-!-Supercheese [~Superchee@] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes]
04:17<@Alberth>simple and easy :)
04:17<andythenorth> now we just need to program infinity
04:18<@Alberth>the only minor niggle is that it totally kills the need to build nice networks :(
04:18<@Alberth>nah, just forbid transport over 0 tiles
04:18<andythenorth>if I go 1 tile, need to do infinity / 1
04:19<andythenorth>don’t think it will work
04:19<andythenorth>maybe we could cap infinity?
04:19<andythenorth>min(infinity, some value) ?
04:19<@Alberth>hmm, we can use MAX_INT64 as an approximation?
04:20<andythenorth>Alberth: metric or imperial MAX_INT64?
04:20<@Alberth>we'll add a setting for that, we don't want to have the wrong kind of infinity, dowe?
04:20<@Alberth>*do we
04:21<andythenorth>we’ll need a setting to decide if you see the setting or not
04:21<andythenorth>oh wait, we have that already :(
04:21<@Alberth>yep, way ahead of you :)
04:21<andythenorth>it’s nice that we plan ahead
04:22<@Alberth>but you'd need a setting to state whether to also search the non-visible settings, perhaps
04:22<andythenorth>what we need is a design
04:22<andythenorth>and a project manager
04:23<@Alberth>but we've made such a nice random collection of functionalities
04:23<@Alberth>most of them are sort-of functioning within specs, even
04:27-!-Devroush [] has joined #openttd
04:29-!-sla_ro|master [slamaster@] has joined #openttd
04:33-!-Progman [] has joined #openttd
04:42<andythenorth>I read that as ‘without specs’ for some reason
04:48<@Alberth>you're probably right in that :)
04:53<andythenorth>so how about we make rivers unmovable?
04:53-!-valhallasw [] has joined #openttd
04:57<@Alberth>although I'll probably get annoyed sufficiently with them to disable their generation :p
05:00<Taede>rcon unpause should only ever unpause if min_active_clients is met, right?
05:02<andythenorth>Alberth: magic bulldozer :P
05:02<Taede>or is it different for non-dedicated servers?
05:03*peter1139 ponders having another go at the landscape generator.
05:04*andythenorth ponders encouraging peter1139
05:04<andythenorth>how do you encourage a peter1139 ?
05:08*andythenorth considers reviving pintware
05:12<andythenorth>V453000: FIRS farms - default production a bit low?
05:16<andythenorth>is ‘unmovable’ just a ReturnCommandCost or something
05:16*andythenorth might try patching in a bit
05:16<andythenorth>have to make wooden train track first :P
05:17-!-Dan9550 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
05:21-!-Dan9550 [] has joined #openttd
05:24<@Alberth>object_cmd.cpp:490 if (!_cheats.magic_bulldozer.value && (spec->flags & OBJECT_FLAG_CANNOT_REMOVE) != 0) return CMD_ERROR;
05:24<@Alberth>looks like it :)
05:26<@Alberth>496 does something similar for owned things
05:41-!-Brumi [] has joined #openttd
05:46-!-yorick [] has joined #openttd
05:48<andythenorth>fonsinchen: both of the extra cdist modes sound good
05:49-!-fjb is now known as Guest7079
05:49-!-fjb [] has joined #openttd
05:52<fonsinchen>andythenorth: is a radical simplification of the cargo reduction thing
05:52<andythenorth>Yeah I read that :)
05:52<fonsinchen>I'm wondering if that's a good idea as you can definitely cheat it if I do it like that.
05:52<andythenorth>ok, so I don’t 100% understand it, but let’s assume that’s my problem
05:52<andythenorth>I understand the outcome I think
05:54<fonsinchen>You can set a base cargo amount and some bonus cargo for large link graphs and you can define how large a link graph has to be to get the whole bonus.
05:54<fonsinchen>That's it, basically
05:54<andythenorth>so more destinations served => more cargo delivered to station
05:54<andythenorth>(source station)
05:55<fonsinchen>No, more stations in link graph => more cargo delivered to any station in that link graph
05:55<fonsinchen>There are obvious ways to inflate the number of stations in your link graph and to temporarily connect separate link graphs to get more bonus.
05:55<fonsinchen>I'd say it doesn't matter, though.
05:56<andythenorth>is this all independent of station rating?
05:56-!-Guest7079 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:59-!-MJP [] has joined #openttd
06:03-!-Pensacola [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:04<andythenorth>fonsinchen: these modes could be per-cargo, as for current cdist?
06:04<andythenorth>could != should
06:04<fonsinchen>The actual new mode, waybill, yes.
06:04<fonsinchen>The cargo reduction would be global.
06:04<fonsinchen>I don't want to introduce 3*4 new settings
06:05<fonsinchen>What I'm actually interested in is opinions about the cheating possibility.
06:06<andythenorth>I am the wrong person for that :)
06:06<andythenorth>I don’t care
06:06<andythenorth>at all
06:06<andythenorth>I am much more interested in cargo flow between different classes of industry
06:07-!-oskari89 [] has joined #openttd
06:12<andythenorth>fonsinchen: for waybill mode, is it possible to calculate capacity for cases with complex transfers?
06:14-!-Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
06:14<fonsinchen>Actually for the waybill mode I'm envisioning a simpler solution, too: Just leave out the second pass of the MCF algorithm. That will effectively cap flows to capacities.
06:14<fonsinchen>andythenorth: I don't quite understand your question, though.
06:15<andythenorth>I can’t actually state the question any better, I’m going to ignore it, it’s probably meaningless
06:16<fonsinchen>Ignore what? The question? The new mode?
06:17<fonsinchen>andythenorth: Do you compile openttd yourself and are you up for a little test?
06:19<andythenorth>fonsinchen: the question ;)
06:19<andythenorth>and yes and yes
06:19<andythenorth>afk a bit - kids
06:21<fonsinchen>I'll prepare a patch for you
06:24-!-DDR [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:24-!-DDR [] has joined #openttd
06:26-!-frosch123 [] has joined #openttd
06:27<fonsinchen>andythenorth: Try for the waybill mode and tell me what you think
06:28<fonsinchen>Ignore the link graph overlay colors for now.
06:28<fonsinchen>With that patch the routing will coniuously adapt to the available capacity instead of trying to force a predetermined distribution.
06:28<fonsinchen>Choose "asymmetric" as distribution mode.
06:33-!-pthagnar [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
06:34<andythenorth>ok ta
06:36*andythenorth gives the game time to catch up
06:36<andythenorth>fonsinchen: worth testing for pax as well?
06:37<fonsinchen>for whatever you'd use the waybill mode
06:37<fonsinchen>Except for the colors in the link graph that _is_ what I would call waybill mode.
06:39<fonsinchen>andythenorth: I remember you had that funny problem with engineering supplies not being delivered to the "right" place. It shouldn't happen with that patch.
06:40<andythenorth>I think I’ll leave pax on symmetric, I don’t know what data I’d gain. I tend to connect ~every station in the pax graph
06:40<andythenorth>pax seems to take care of itself - my vehicles are full, I make money
06:43<fonsinchen>I find it quite hard to get all the passengers delivered in most cases ... but it your choice.
06:48<andythenorth>so now I can test supply feeders
06:58-!-lugo [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
07:00-!-zeknurn [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:04-!-zeknurn [] has joined #openttd
07:05-!-Pereba [~UserNick@] has joined #openttd
07:12-!-lugo [] has joined #openttd
07:19-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@] has joined #openttd
07:31<andythenorth>fonsinchen: so far, for limited cases, this mode seems to Just Work ™
07:31<fonsinchen>nice to hear
07:31<fonsinchen>If you have the time feel free to test something more complex
07:33<andythenorth>in previous games, the hard case has been ‘spine routes’ - trunk trains with many stops, collecting and dropping to feeders
07:34<andythenorth>I have seen cargo going wrong-direction, and also unloading and reloading at intermediate stations
07:34<andythenorth>this was a while ago, first time I test cdist
07:35<fonsinchen>We have to separate the bugs from the new features here. If you think you've found a bug please open a report. I'd like to test the new feature now. Specifically I'd like to know if it helps with cargo getting stuck because it doesn't want to go where you want it to go.
07:37<andythenorth>ok ta
07:39<andythenorth>bbl - kid stuff
07:39-!-andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
07:53-!-Snail [] has joined #openttd
08:01-!-KWKdesign [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:01-!-KWKdesign [] has joined #openttd
08:18-!-Phreeze [] has joined #openttd
08:24<Phreeze>i always feel drunk after family meals....don't know why
08:31-!-Pereba [~UserNick@] has quit [Quit: AdiIRC is updating to v1.9.3 Beta Build (2014/04/21) 64 Bit]
08:32-!-Pereba [~UserNick@] has joined #openttd
08:37-!-Snail [] has quit [Quit: Snail]
08:47<peter1139>Is it due to the pint of vodka?
08:49<Phreeze>btw, opengfx link in the ingame website-button is wrong -> it misses the "/projects/" in the URL
08:49<Phreeze>nope, it' sprobably due to champagne + vine + whisky
09:01-!-Superuser [] has joined #openttd
09:13-!-gelignite [] has joined #openttd
09:47-!-ABCRic [] has joined #openttd
10:12-!-Pikka [] has joined #openttd
11:08-!-andythenorth [] has joined #openttd
11:08<andythenorth>Pikka: I am intrigued by your proposal for costs
11:08<andythenorth>for example, could we have different costs for faster, more powerful engines?
11:09<andythenorth>they could cost more to buy for example
11:10<Phreeze>andythenorth : is it normal that i don't have any road vehicles to transport stuff from firs basic economy ? and the armored van can transport milk, i dont have an "oil" transporter
11:10<Phreeze>no road vehicle for the new cargos
11:10<andythenorth>DEFINE NORMAL
11:11<Phreeze>it is "intended to be that way"
11:11<Phreeze>i have firs + uk trainset
11:11<Phreeze>do i need another grf to transport FIRS stuff by road ?
11:12<andythenorth>FIRS isn’t a vehicle set
11:14<ToBeFree>afaik/iirc the original vehicles can simply be refitted
11:14<ToBeFree>so I'd say no
11:15<ToBeFree>(what about *trying* it)
11:16<andythenorth>Phreeze: I reckon eGRVTS is a common choice for use with FIRS
11:16<Phreeze>ill add egrvtsvflfnsèr
11:17-!-Hazzard_ [] has joined #openttd
11:19<Pikka>andy: It's a crazy idea, but it might just work.
11:20<andythenorth>might be BAD
11:20<Pikka>you're right
11:22<andythenorth>let’s replace it with a much more complicated, harder to explain mechanic
11:22<andythenorth>I don’t know which is worse
11:22<andythenorth>suggestions from the inept
11:23<andythenorth>or suggestions from those who understand algorithms
11:23<Phreeze>lol a truck cant overtake a horse
11:23<Phreeze>my "truck without egbrt grf" is no a " horse" i think, it goes 2kmh
11:23<Phreeze>my new trucks cant overtake it ^^
11:24<Pikka>articulated road vehicles are a bad feature, Phreeze
11:24-!-Hazzard [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
11:24<andythenorth>just FEATURE
11:24<Phreeze>i dont know if it is, grpahically its still a balogh trucks
11:28<Pikka>andy: for industrial trams, perhaps, but they're a bit silly if you're doing "normal" semi-trailers or horsedrawn carriages
11:28<Pikka>can't overtake
11:29<Pikka>can't use "normal" truck stations
11:29<Pikka>and you only see them articulate for half a second when they go round corners, most of the time they may as well be a solid vehicle.
11:30<Phreeze>is it a BAD FEATURE ?
11:31<Pikka>it's a fair to middling feature
11:33<Phreeze>until what date, brake vans are required ?
11:33<Phreeze>@firs - andythenorth
11:34<@Alberth>firs is an industry set, not a train set
11:34<Pikka>I don't know about FIRS, but it's probably either 1965 or 1970 in UKRS.
11:34<frosch123>you cannot brake firs, it's always gung ho
11:35<Pikka>required cabeese is a BAD FEATURE
11:35<frosch123>only as long as we have no audio-interactive explanation of what a caboose is
11:36<@Alberth>at the time, it's author had a different idea about that :)
11:39<andythenorth>Phreeze: FIRS requires brake vans until 1982
11:40-!-retro|cz [] has joined #openttd
11:40<andythenorth>Pikka: your point about semi-trucks is…dangerous to my new truck set :(
11:40<andythenorth>now I have Thoughts
11:41<andythenorth>I will ignore Te Thoughts
11:41<andythenorth>The *
11:41<Pikka>BAD THOUGHTS
11:46<andythenorth>fonsinchen: how does the waybill dispatcher handle capacity? Is speed a factor?
11:54-!-Dan9550 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:07<Phreeze>hm coal cars dont need a brake wagon
12:08<Pikka>must be realism
12:08<andythenorth>I thought it would be useful if FIRS controlled how trains work
12:08<andythenorth>specifically brake vans
12:18<fonsinchen>andythenorth: Capacity is measured, just like with the other modes.
12:19<fonsinchen>Capacity will never fall below what the largest consist serving a link would transport if travelling along the link once a month.
12:21<andythenorth>I have what looks like disproportionate allocation between route A (2 ships, 110t total capacity) and route B (3 trains, 144t total capacity)
12:21<fonsinchen>Link capacity is not vehicle capacity
12:21<andythenorth>it’s probably correct, but would be interesting to know what factors affect the split
12:21<fonsinchen>Link capacity is the amount of cargo you can transport over a link within a month.
12:22<andythenorth>so throughput
12:22<fonsinchen>Yes. So I guess, as the ships are very slow they produce a low throughput.
12:23<andythenorth>I’ll adjust and see
12:24<fonsinchen>It may be the other way around, actually: As the ships are very large their link has a higher minimum capacity.
12:25<andythenorth>I think their throughput would be lower than the trains
12:26<andythenorth>I should normalise it for tiles travelled, then work it out :P
12:26<fonsinchen>Yes, but I need to cut it off at some point to avoid excessive link drop. That's why there is the largest consist once a month rule.
12:26*andythenorth needs “ton miles / month” measure :P
12:28<fonsinchen>Actually the link capacity may temporarily fall below that minimum value. It will just be restored to the minimum whenever a ship loads or the link is about to be dropped.
12:28-!-Pereba [~UserNick@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:29-!-Pereba [~UserNick@] has joined #openttd
12:36-!-DanMacK [] has joined #openttd
12:36<DanMacK>Hey all
12:40<Pikka>bonsoir herr MacK
12:46<DanMacK>Hey how goes it?
12:47<Pikka>andy's having trouble with the brakevans in FIRS
12:52<DanMacK>FIRS has brakevans? lol
12:56-!-efess [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
13:01-!-Brumi [] has quit []
13:02-!-Brumi [] has joined #openttd
13:19-!-Myhorta [] has joined #openttd
13:39-!-ABCRic [] has quit [Quit: Herp derp]
13:42<frosch123> <- hmm
13:43<frosch123>i don't think it can manage that for 4096
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26478 /trunk/src/lang (czech.txt serbian.txt) (2014-04-21 17:45:13 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>czech - 4 changes by djst
13:45<@DorpsGek>serbian - 2 changes by ivan_mile
13:47-!-kais58|AFK is now known as kais58__
13:47-!-luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck
13:50<Phreeze>frosch123 still playing that game !?
13:50<Phreeze>at least play the boobs version ;)
13:50<frosch123>not "still", i only started now
13:50<frosch123>blame eddi
13:51<frosch123>but now that i know about how it works, i consider most of the results of google image search fake
13:51-!-Supercheese [~Superchee@] has joined #openttd
13:55<peter1139>- authchunks = malloc(sockopt_len);
13:55<peter1139>- memset(authchunks, 0, sizeof(sockopt_len));
13:56<peter1139>I'm glad nobody uses that software.
13:56<__ln__>peter1139: is that openssl?
13:57<frosch123>i just wanted to make a joke about proper api usage and using calloc to prevent that
13:58<peter1139>+ authchunks = calloc(1, sockopt_len);
13:58<peter1139>funnily enough...
13:59<Phreeze>that facebook pic is nice ;)
13:59<Phreeze>saw it on "i fucking love science"-FBpage
14:01<frosch123>hmm, how does a search for "openssl bashing" not result in anything
14:04<frosch123>sounds like ottd
14:04<frosch123>"Short answer - send diffs, expect criticism - not because you suck but because all diffs get criticism. If you can't handle it and improve, don't post."
14:09<Phreeze>need one way signs for rails, without being them a signal (aka: point where the train stops)
14:09<Phreeze>(or waypoints...)
14:10-!-SkeedR [] has joined #openttd
14:11-!-SkeedR is now known as Guest7114
14:11-!-jjavaholic [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
14:11-!-DanMacK [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:18-!-Guest7114 is now known as SkeedR
14:18-!-SkeedR [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
14:18-!-SkeedR [] has joined #openttd
14:18-!-SkeedR is now known as Guest7115
14:23-!-Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
14:24<Wolf01>hello o/
14:25-!-Guest7115 is now known as SkeedR
14:31<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26479 trunk/src/stringfilter.cpp (2014-04-21 18:31:06 UTC)
14:31<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: use MallocT instead of malloc
14:33<__ln__>.... openttd goes openssl?
14:33<frosch123>no, we are switching to cvs
14:35<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26480 trunk/src/stringfilter.cpp (2014-04-21 18:35:12 UTC)
14:35<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r26479): forgot to remove a *
14:38<@planetmaker>good evening
14:39<frosch123>hola pm
14:39<__ln__>solamente inglés
14:40-!-DanMacK [] has joined #openttd
14:46-!-glx [] has joined #openttd
14:46-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
14:48<Phreeze>playa del ingles
14:48-!-efess [] has joined #openttd
14:52-!-henrikhodne [] has joined #openttd
14:53<henrikhodne>Hey, I'm running OpenTTD 1.4.0 on OS X and I don't seem to be able to build any buses or trucks anymore, even though there are some listed in "Available Road Vehicles". Any ideas?
14:53<Phreeze>did you build normal roads ?
14:53<Phreeze>ROAD depot ?
14:54<+glx>looks like the usual click on the main list but not on depot list
15:03<henrikhodne>Yeah, it's a road depot. I built buses in it eariler in the game.
15:07-!-Supercheese [~Superchee@] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes]
15:07<Brumi>is the list empty when you click 'buy vehicles' from the road depot?
15:07<henrikhodne>Yes, it is.
15:07<Wolf01>sounds like your vehicles become obsolete, which year it is?
15:08<Brumi>what vehicles show up in the 'available road vehicles' window?
15:08<Brumi>tell a few examples
15:08<henrikhodne>Oh, duh, they are all Trams -_-
15:08<henrikhodne>The window was too narrow, so I didn't realise.
15:08<Brumi>that's what I was suspecting
15:09<Brumi>you can bring back the old vehicle
15:09<Brumi>if you go to the advanced settings
15:09<Brumi>in game, not from the main menu
15:09<Brumi>then set Vehicles / Vehicles never expire to 'on'
15:10<Brumi>then open the console
15:10-!-zeknurn [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:10<Brumi>by pressing the button left to the '1' button on your keyboard
15:10<Brumi>and type 'resetenginges'
15:11<henrikhodne>Awesome, thanks.
15:11<Brumi>that way you'll have all vehicles available again, no matter how old they are
15:12-!-zeknurn [] has joined #openttd
15:18<henrikhodne>I also seem to have messed up my signaling or something. I have a train that goes up to a junction, stops and backs up to the closest signal.
15:20<henrikhodne>Ah, looks like it's working again.
15:20<frosch123>missing electification?
15:21<henrikhodne>Ahhh, yes.
15:28<andythenorth>if you don’t want people stopping vehicles on your infrastructure
15:28<andythenorth>then don’t apply infrastructure sharing patch
15:28-!-zeknurn [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:28<Taede>also dont build roads
15:30<andythenorth>seems completely stupid, complaining about patches that aren’t part of trunk anyway
15:31-!-Progman_ [] has joined #openttd
15:34-!-Progman [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:34-!-Progman_ is now known as Progman
15:34<andythenorth>fonsinchen: in the case discussed earlier, reducing the train capacity has caused the amount assigned for that route to reduce
15:34<andythenorth>the ship amount remains static
15:34<andythenorth>expected result?
15:35<fonsinchen>I guess so.
15:35<andythenorth>so if I want more assigned to the ship route, add ships?
15:35<andythenorth>even though 2 are waiting, empty?
15:35<fonsinchen>The waybill dispatchment is supposed to adapt to your capacities
15:35<andythenorth>emergent behaviour :)
15:35<fonsinchen>Where did the cargo go if it didn't take the trains?
15:36<fonsinchen>There is a certain delay between planning and execution ...
15:36<andythenorth>I can’t relate the amount produced by industry with the amount planned by station
15:37<fonsinchen>Well, before more cargo was taking the trains, right?
15:37<andythenorth>now the total amount of cargo is reduced
15:37<andythenorth>I’ll ffwd a bit
15:37-!-zeknurn [] has joined #openttd
15:37<fonsinchen>If still the same amount of cargo is being produced it must be going somewhere else
15:38<andythenorth>“Monthly supply” - the unit is same as cargo unit?
15:38<andythenorth>looks same
15:38<andythenorth>ok so I have 80 crates supplied / month
15:38<andythenorth>how far ahead does ‘planned’ look?
15:39<fonsinchen>That's not much for two ships of the usual capacity.
15:39<fonsinchen>How big are the ships?
15:39<andythenorth>55t each
15:39<fonsinchen>It looks until next recalculation of link graph.
15:40<andythenorth>I’ll add more ships and see what it does
15:40-!-KenjiE20 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:40<andythenorth>the capacity is measured, not calculated?
15:40<fonsinchen>Then if only the ships serve the route they have to wait 20 days each until they fill up - in case they get all 80 crates
15:41-!-KenjiE20 [kenjie20@] has joined #openttd
15:41<fonsinchen>Well, OK, that's not counting how long it takes them to travel, which usually is significant for ships
15:41<andythenorth>I’ll stop the trains and see what the calculation does
15:41<andythenorth>I’m wondering if the travel time means capacity = min
15:42<fonsinchen>What does the result look like? Where is the cargo actually going?
15:42<fonsinchen>As long as they're both only waiting for cargo, the capacity will be estimated at 55t per month
15:42<fonsinchen>that means the trains will get the remaining 25t, yes.
15:43<fonsinchen>(at least)
15:43-!-George is now known as Guest7120
15:43-!-George [~George@] has joined #openttd
15:45<fonsinchen>In general the link capacity is measured. However, if not enough samples can be collected for whatever reason it's estimated as the cargo capacity of the largest consist serving the link.
15:48<andythenorth>so the ratio is currently 4:41 for ships:trains
15:49<andythenorth>I have tried more ships, and fewer trains :)
15:50-!-Guest7120 [~George@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:52<fonsinchen>Can you upload the savegame somewhere?
15:53<andythenorth>just replacing the ships with trains to see what that does
15:53-!-Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd []
15:54<andythenorth>nothing noticeable
15:55<fonsinchen>It could also be that the train route is just shorter
15:55<fonsinchen>Given enough capacity on both sides it will prefer shorter routes
15:56<andythenorth>if I forgot any grfs, ping me
15:57<andythenorth>Puddleton Port is the interesting station
15:57<fonsinchen>Thank you. I'll check it right away
15:58<andythenorth>could be EAndythenorth
15:58-!-oskari89 [] has quit []
16:02<fonsinchen>Well, the sandbank is closer than the pit
16:02<fonsinchen>But the difference in amounts is pretty large for that
16:04<andythenorth>some setting?
16:04<andythenorth>I did check I applied the patch :P
16:04<andythenorth>that was my first concern :P
16:04<fonsinchen>The settings look OK.
16:06<fonsinchen>That's quite interesting. I'll give it a closer examination
16:08*andythenorth always breaks things ;)
16:12-!-pthagnar [] has joined #openttd
16:17<fonsinchen>It already fails when calculating the demand. It's 40:712 there (before scaling)
16:19<andythenorth>is that based on tiles?
16:20<fonsinchen>ES is cargo id 24, right?
16:20*andythenorth looks
16:20<andythenorth>fonsinchen: yes
16:24<fonsinchen>Ah, tile demands!
16:25<andythenorth>dredging site is single tile
16:27<fonsinchen>The other one has 17 tiles
16:27<fonsinchen>That's the difference
16:28<andythenorth>I am -1 to tile-based demands :)
16:28<andythenorth>for industries
16:28<andythenorth>might make sense for houses
16:30<fonsinchen>I see. That's a separate fix, though. Maybe ignore it for now.
16:31<andythenorth>so the dispatcher is probably correct, just the demand is wrong
16:31<andythenorth>when I adjusted capacity on the trains, the dispatcher did the right thing afaict
16:32<fonsinchen>The dispatcher will only ignore the demands if it cannot satisfy them
16:32<fonsinchen>If you have enough capacity everywhere it behaves just like asymmetric distribution.
16:34<andythenorth>I’ll keep playing
16:35<Phreeze>my openttd is weird...when i move the screen with the right mousebutton, it sometimes accelerates like a fool
16:41-!-frosch123 [] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
16:54-!-LSky [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:56-!-KWKdesign [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:56-!-KWKdesign [] has joined #openttd
17:10<Phreeze>tram invasion !
17:10<Phreeze>thx to cargodist^^
17:19<andythenorth>fonsinchen: transfer orders are unhelpful with cdist?
17:20<andythenorth>not required?
17:20<fonsinchen>You can use them, cargodist will try to figure out what to do.
17:20<fonsinchen>They aren't required, of course.
17:21<fonsinchen>There are some cases where you want some sort of "leave empty" order to suppress the creation of the following link
17:22<andythenorth>turned on cdist existing game…removing outdated orders
17:31<Phreeze>cdist is cool
17:36-!-Phreeze [] has quit []
17:37-!-Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:45-!-andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
17:46-!-valhallasw [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
17:48-!-efess [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:52-!-Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:1e4b:d6ff:feca:6b69] has joined #openttd
17:59-!-jjavaholic [] has joined #openttd
18:00-!-Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:1e4b:d6ff:feca:6b69] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:05-!-SkeedR [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:08-!-Brumi [] has quit []
18:09-!-Devroush [] has quit []
18:12-!-Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:1e4b:d6ff:feca:6b69] has joined #openttd
18:13-!-retro|cz [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:24-!-Natio [] has joined #openttd
18:26-!-Natio [] has quit []
18:31-!-Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
18:35-!-gelignite [] has quit [Quit:]
18:53-!-Myhorta [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:01-!-DanMacK [] has quit [Quit: Page closed]
19:21-!-Myhorta [] has joined #openttd
19:22-!-Myhorta [] has quit []
19:40-!-efess [] has joined #openttd
19:45-!-yorick [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:04-!-Supercheese [~Superchee@] has joined #openttd
20:13-!-sla_ro|master [slamaster@] has quit []
20:15-!-Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:1e4b:d6ff:feca:6b69] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:17-!-KWKdesign [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:17-!-KWKdesign [] has joined #openttd
21:12-!-Snail [] has joined #openttd
21:24-!-luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz
21:37-!-glx [] has quit [Quit: Bye]
22:02-!-MJP [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:40-!-Superuser [] has quit [Quit: Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC.]
22:48-!-Djohaal [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:59-!-Pikka [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:01-!-Pikka [] has joined #openttd
23:08-!-KWKdesign [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:08-!-KWKdesign [] has joined #openttd
23:18-!-Hazzard [] has joined #openttd
23:23-!-JGR_ [] has joined #openttd
23:24-!-Hazzard_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:25-!-JGR [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:28-!-KWKdesign [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:28-!-KWKdesign [] has joined #openttd
23:37-!-Pikka [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:42-!-Snail [] has quit [Quit: Snail]
---Logclosed Tue Apr 22 00:00:39 2014