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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-04-27

---Logopened Sun Apr 27 00:00:46 2014
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01:57<LSky>morning
02:14<Supercheese>Salve, amice
02:16<supermop>yo
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02:26<@planetmaker>moin
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02:27<supermop>hi planetmaker
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03:38<supermop>for a total conversion set is it best to provide terrain and basics as baseset and then later make a supplementary newgrf?
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03:48<@planetmaker>what do you mean with 'total conversion set'?
03:48<@planetmaker>There's NewGRFs and there's base sets
03:48<peter1139>Changing everything.
03:49<peter1139>But if it's baseset, that implies its suitable as a basic graphics replacement
03:49<@planetmaker>So it depends on whether you want to make something which is nice as base set and then want to fine-tune it by means of NewGRFs
03:49<@planetmaker>or whether you're interested in a gameplay goal - where then it may make more sense to start with everything NewGRF
03:49<@planetmaker>And possibly make a base set when it seems that you got everything covered anyway
03:50<@planetmaker>So possibly, I'd start with NewGRF only
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03:58<DanMacK>Hey all
04:00<Taede>mornin
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04:08<andythenorth>o/
04:12<supermop>just want to make a diagrammatic set of graphics for playing the vanilla game,
04:13<supermop>if i still had an office job i'd say it would be a 'worksafe' look, but i have broader ideas right now
04:14<supermop>but regardless its just vector derived symbolic/diagrammatic sprites
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04:19<andythenorth>fonsinchen: I just started testing that branch with waybill patch applied
04:19<andythenorth>after mashing ffwd for a minute or so, the cargo allocation to ship routes looks now balanced against train routes
04:20<andythenorth>allocations of 13:34 or now 33:34
04:20<andythenorth>or / are /s
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04:35<fonsinchen>andythenorth, that's what I tested, too.
04:35<fonsinchen>That's a fairly easy task for the algorithm, though.
04:36<fonsinchen>Maybe you have something more crazy with multiple full loads, timetables and conditionals mixed in?
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04:41<juzza1>supermop: by diagrammatic graphics, do you mean something like this http://webstyleguide.com/wsg3/figures/11-graphics/11-12-700.jpg ?
04:43<fonsinchen>Also the algorithm has the potential to greatly overestimate capacity if the route is not fully "timed", yet, while a vehicle is full loading.
04:44<fonsinchen>That may be a good thing, though, as it gives an initial boost to new routes so that cargo is allocated on them right away.
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04:53<fonsinchen>I could generally add the current_order_time to the base value if the current order doesn't have wait_time, yet.
04:54<fonsinchen>That would prevent that boost from going straight through the roof in pathetic cases.
04:54<andythenorth>fonsinchen: I don’t have any conditional orders :)
04:55<andythenorth>I really wouldn’t expect cdist to handle such complexity
04:55<fonsinchen>People do expect that.
04:56<andythenorth>I doubt they could describe what they actually expect the result to be
04:56<andythenorth>except ‘magic'
04:56<fonsinchen>But to see the problem I'm imagining just make a route with a short non-full-load link followed by a long full load link and then watch how it gets ridiculously overloaded.
04:57<fonsinchen>Well, in certain cases there are valid descriptions. I remember that guy with the aircraft taxiing around on the same airport, conditionally servicing it.
04:57<fonsinchen>That should not distort the cargo handling, of course.
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05:01<andythenorth>lo Dan9550
05:01<andythenorth>oops
05:01<andythenorth>sorry
05:01*andythenorth read ‘joined'
05:02<andythenorth>more sleep needed
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05:08<Phreeze>sleep is overrated
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05:15<Dan9550>sleep is for the weak
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05:39<andythenorth>is there some way to use timetables to space out vehicles?
05:39<andythenorth>my ships keep bunching, which is visually ugly
05:40<Eddi|zuHause>set up a roundtrip time and then ctrl+click on start date
05:41<andythenorth>how do I determine the roundtrip time?
05:42<Eddi|zuHause>there's an autofill
05:42<Eddi|zuHause>which you should probably increase once it's done
05:45<peter1139>hmm
05:49<peter1139>i always forget about timetables
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05:53<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: what does that actually do? (conceptually)
05:54<peter1139>Autofill will give you the total journey time including stops.
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05:54<andythenorth>and how is vehicle separation guaranteed?
05:55<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: the autofill records one roundtrip, the adjustment is for variation in loading times so your vehicles aren't always late, and the start date calculates roundtrip time / number of shared vehicles
05:55<Eddi|zuHause>this is set up once and then fixed
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05:56<andythenorth>I don’t think I’d have ever worked that out from the UI
05:56<Eddi|zuHause>separation is only ensured if your vehicles are not late
05:56<peter1139>So if your network is congested they can still bunch up.
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05:57<andythenorth>I never understood timetables :)
05:57<andythenorth>so it reduces speed of individual vehicles?
05:58<andythenorth>or makes them wait longer at station?
05:58<Eddi|zuHause>that feeling was probably mutual :p
05:58<Eddi|zuHause>they wait longer
05:58<peter1139>makes them wait longer, if it's early
05:58<andythenorth>and all the following vehicles then wait longer too?
05:58<Eddi|zuHause>although you can set a speed limit as well
05:58<Eddi|zuHause>only the first time
05:59<Eddi|zuHause>once it adjusts to the separation, there should not be a lot of waiting, unless you estended the roundtrip time too much
06:00<andythenorth>so I need to watch the vehicles for the first roundtrip?
06:01<Eddi|zuHause>one vehicle
06:01<Eddi|zuHause>the roundtrip time is automatically shared
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06:01<peter1139>Assuming you use shared orders.
06:01<peter1139>If you don't... do.
06:01<andythenorth>I do
06:02<andythenorth>I have to try this now :P
06:02<andythenorth>I don’t really understand it
06:02<andythenorth>I need a faster ffwd :P
06:02<peter1139>Thie timetable will take 104 days to complete
06:03<peter1139>This vehicle is currently running 104 days late
06:03<peter1139>Yers...
06:03<andythenorth>urgh
06:03<andythenorth>ships are slow
06:03<andythenorth>maybe I should fix that
06:03<andythenorth>this is boring
06:03<peter1139>I have a patch for that...
06:04<Eddi|zuHause>it should skip a full roundtrip after x% late
06:04<andythenorth>peter1139: faster ships? Or just remove them? o_O
06:05<peter1139>andythenorth, faster!
06:05<peter1139>Silly instant stopping though.
06:06<andythenorth>helps avoid collisions
06:07<andythenorth>eh?
06:07<andythenorth>my ‘wait for 3 days’ at station order just got changed to 1 day
06:07<andythenorth>:(
06:08<peter1139>It will if it's still autofilling.
06:10<andythenorth>oh
06:10<andythenorth>then I have to reset that myself?
06:10<peter1139>It'll finish autofilling at some point, then you can adjust the times.
06:13<andythenorth>what’s the ctrl-click on start date business all about?
06:14<andythenorth>and why is it ‘not timetabled’ after running the full roundtrip?
06:15<andythenorth>oh just slow :P
06:15<andythenorth>so how do I space out the vehicles?
06:15<andythenorth>wait?
06:16<andythenorth>or do I need to stop some?
06:16<peter1139>31st February. Yeah!
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06:34<supermop>ok now that i have a handfull of 4x zoom 32bpp pngs
06:37<andythenorth>fonsinchen: so for asymmetric cdist, what rule is used to divide cargo between destinations?
06:37<fonsinchen>Distance only, after I've removed the tile demands
06:38<andythenorth>I wondered about a ‘stupid’ mode
06:38<fonsinchen>subject to the effect of distance setting, of course.
06:38<andythenorth>just counts the number of destinations, divides evenly across them
06:38<fonsinchen>set distance effect to 0
06:38<fonsinchen>That's as stupid as it gets then
06:39<andythenorth>I should try another game with asymmetric, but featuring all the other recent improvements
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06:39<andythenorth>waybill definitely clicks with my mental model for the game, but I wonder if it’s better or worse than asymmetric
06:40<peter1139>Is asymmetric new or something?
06:40<peter1139>It's what I have picked.
06:40<peter1139>Hmm, cargo is only asymmteric.
06:41<fonsinchen>symmetric doesn't make any sense for most cargoes
06:43*andythenorth ponders Eddi’s point about town cargos
06:45<andythenorth>incentives to distribute cargo or connect the network should be done by the GS
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06:46<fonsinchen>Yes, that's a separate question: Which link graph properties should be exposed to GS and AI?
06:46<Wolf01>hi hi
06:46<andythenorth>interesting Q
06:46<andythenorth>I’m also wondering if dist mode should be a newgrf cargo property
06:48<fonsinchen>That would make the mode settings either obsolete or highly confusing. Might be good or bad.
06:49<peter1139>Castle Point Steamer
06:51<frosch123>anyone having issues with 32bpp-anim crashing in nightly (possibly windows)? i don't
06:53<peter1139>Hmm, steam coming from below the ship :S
06:54<andythenorth>peter1139: needs a smoke patch...
06:54<frosch123>yeah, i should commit that one :)
06:55<andythenorth>"he has a patch for that”
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07:15<andythenorth>fonsinchen: I’m not sure player needs to set the mode per cargo
07:19<andythenorth>I think it’s like payment rate and other intrinsic cargo properties
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08:15<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26522 /trunk/src (9 files in 3 dirs) (2014-04-27 12:15:14 UTC)
08:15<@DorpsGek>-Add: A config-file-only setting to disable usage of 8bpp video modes.
08:15<@DorpsGek>-Remove: [win32] fullscreen_bpp setting, which is replaced by above setting.
08:15<@DorpsGek>-Change: Disable usage of 8bpp blitters and video modes by default. Many modern OS and hardware cause issues with those.
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08:46<peter1139>Shocking./
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09:12<LordAro>it finally happened
09:18<peter1139>You're going slightly mad?
09:21<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26523 trunk/src/os/unix/unix.cpp (2014-04-27 13:21:30 UTC)
09:21<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#5992]: OpenBSD compilation (MagisterQuis)
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09:46<LordAro>peter1139: well, other than that
10:02<Phreeze>is there a way i can remove a timetable from a tram e.g ?
10:02<Phreeze>stupid tram is waiting at a station for days.....a station with 1000passengers waiting
10:09<@Alberth>open time table, remove all times?
10:12<__ln___>http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/04/landfill-excavation-unearths-years-of-crushed-atari-treasure/
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10:34<Phreeze>what i did finally ;)
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11:12<Samu>hi. quick question. Is autoclean maximum value 240 or 256? wiki says 256, console says 240. Just wondering
11:13<Rubidium>console's more likely to be right
11:13<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26524 /trunk/src/lang (53 files) (2014-04-27 15:13:27 UTC)
11:13<@DorpsGek>-Remove: Soon unneeded translations.
11:13<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26525 /trunk/src (9 files in 5 dirs) (2014-04-27 15:13:46 UTC)
11:13<@DorpsGek>-Remove: Screenshot format setting from GUI.
11:13<Rubidium>240 sounds better too because that's 20 years
11:15<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26526 /trunk/src (5 files in 5 dirs) (2014-04-27 15:15:28 UTC)
11:15<@DorpsGek>-Remove: Ability to set map generation seed via GUI. If you really need it, use the console.
11:17<Samu>thx
11:19<Superuser>Is there a specification of the OpenTTD map format anywhere?
11:21<frosch123>http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/file/59367d649f6b/docs/desync.txt#l239 <- savegame container format
11:21<frosch123>http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/file/59367d649f6b/docs/landscape.html http://hg.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.hg/file/59367d649f6b/docs/landscape_grid.html <- map array format
11:21<Superuser>thanks
11:21<frosch123>the rest is highly version specifiy, and no external tool will be able to learn that
11:23<Superuser>damn
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11:35<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26528 /trunk/src (3 files in 3 dirs) (2014-04-27 15:35:31 UTC)
11:35<@DorpsGek>-Remove: A bunch of archaic settings from the advanced settings GUI.
11:36<frosch123>DorpsGek: you are a mystery-monger
11:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26529 /trunk (4 files in 3 dirs) (2014-04-27 15:45:53 UTC)
11:46<@DorpsGek>-Merge: documentation updates from 1.4 branch
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11:54<peter1139>Tyrant!
11:56<@planetmaker>hi hi
11:57*peter1139 renames frosch123 the Gnome-oriser
11:57<frosch123>what's that?
11:58<peter1139>It's what the do to Gnome. Remove everything :p
11:58<peter1139>I'd say remove screenshot formats other than PNG, myself.
11:58<frosch123>oh, i am not actually removing... i am only hiding stuff under the carpet
12:00<@planetmaker>frosch123, that doesn't fit a carpet anymore. Must be a secret room hidden behind a big painting or so :P
12:07<andythenorth>it’s a whole basement
12:07<andythenorth>open the trapdoor, shove it in the cellar
12:07<andythenorth>close the door quick
12:08<frosch123>well, ottd does not have enough new features, so we have to take the ms office approach: reshuffle the interface on every release so noone finds stuff anymore
12:09<andythenorth>it’s a winner
12:09<andythenorth>works for me every time
12:09<andythenorth>just keep moving stuff to settings-file-only
12:09<andythenorth>it’s the OS X approach :P
12:10<andythenorth>it’s not nearly as fisher-price as the UI suggests
12:10<andythenorth>defaults write com.apple.foo allows a multitude of sins to be perpetrated
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12:30<andythenorth>@seen pikka
12:30<@DorpsGek>andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 4 days, 11 hours, 2 minutes, and 41 seconds ago: <Pikka> no, I'm just not in here
12:30<andythenorth>that pikka
12:45<andythenorth>naughty andythenorth
12:51<Eddi|zuHause>this atari landfill thing was looong before i got interested in computers
12:52<Eddi|zuHause>when i got into computers the discussion was "amiga or pc?"
12:53<Eddi|zuHause>and the gameboy was the hype!
12:59<andythenorth>I google for source images, and find stuff I’ve made :(
12:59<andythenorth>not helpful
13:09<andythenorth>bridges on signals?
13:11<Samu>what is the frames per sec of this game, I forgot again. 1 day is 74 tics is all I know
13:11<@planetmaker>33fps
13:11<Samu>thanks again
13:18<Samu>what is the thing used to display the graphics. OpenGL?
13:19<Samu>in fullscreen
13:19<Samu>the API
13:19<@planetmaker>usually a graphics card and a monitor :P
13:19<Samu>Bandicam isn't detecting any OpenGL or DirectX application
13:20<@planetmaker>because openttd isn't
13:20<@planetmaker>it uses blitting
13:21<Samu>GDI Bit Blitting?
13:27<Phreeze> Parameters of 'bitmask' cannot be greater than 31 <----- too many cargoes ??? got: bitmask(FRVG,FRUT,GRVL,LIME,POTA,SAND,SCMT,SGBT,SGCN,COAL,GRAI,WHEA,MAIZ,IORE,CORE,SUGR,AORE,CLAY,CMNT);
13:29<Eddi|zuHause>Phreeze: you can only put the first 32 cargos from the CTT into a bitmask
13:29<Eddi|zuHause>use the list properties for refitting
13:29<Eddi|zuHause>leave the bitmask empty
13:29<Eddi|zuHause>it should be deprecated
13:30<Eddi|zuHause>because it's impractical
13:30<Samu>I managed to capture in fullscreen, though I expected to capture it in the upscaled resolution
13:30<Phreeze>hm i dont get it
13:30<Phreeze>list properties ?
13:31<Phreeze>do i need to use the CC_blabla ?
13:31<Eddi|zuHause>scripts/write_engine.py: file.write(' refittable_cargo_classes: %s;\n'%(allowed,))
13:31<Eddi|zuHause>scripts/write_engine.py: file.write(' non_refittable_cargo_classes: %s;\n'%(forbidden,))
13:31<Eddi|zuHause>scripts/write_engine.py: file.write(' cargo_allow_refit: %s;\n'%(add_cargos,))
13:31<Eddi|zuHause>scripts/write_engine.py: file.write(' cargo_disallow_refit: %s;\n'%(rem_cargos,))
13:31<Phreeze>and then just disallow e.g scrap metal if i previously chose CC_bulk
13:31<Phreeze>leave me alone with that python stuff^^
13:31<Eddi|zuHause>these 4 properties you need
13:32<Eddi|zuHause>you should use the cargo classes for cargos that are not yet known
13:32<Eddi|zuHause>someone will invent new cargos in the next 5 years, and you can't always push out updates
13:34<Eddi|zuHause>use the allow/disallow lists for stuff that is already known
13:34<Eddi|zuHause>give lists as "[a,b,c,d]", not as bitmask
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13:37<Eddi|zuHause>do not use the "refittable_cargo_types" property at all
13:38<Eddi|zuHause>it has BAD SEMANTICS
13:47<Eddi|zuHause>did that make any sense at all?
13:49<@planetmaker>listen to Eddi|zuHause :)
13:49<@planetmaker>just those four properties
13:49<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26530 /trunk/src/lang (61 files in 2 dirs) (2014-04-27 17:49:36 UTC)
13:49<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:49<@DorpsGek>catalan - 19 changes by juanjo
13:49<@DorpsGek>english_US - 18 changes by Supercheese
13:49<@DorpsGek>italian - 17 changes by lorenzodv
13:49<@planetmaker>and list explicitly those known in cargo_(dis)allow_refit. And use classes for yet unknown
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13:57<andythenorth>and don’t disallow classes unless you know exactly what and why
14:08<Phreeze>why is it bad ?
14:08<Phreeze>put a list in, win
14:12<@planetmaker>other ways you don't win. Due to time passing and sets doing different things which you can't take care of otherwise
14:17<Phreeze>i'd go for: use CC_bulk etc. and disallow some cargoes you dont want
14:26<andythenorth>if you disallow classes you have more chance of getting caught out by cargo authors doing something odd in future
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14:40<Eddi|zuHause>Phreeze: there are two problems with "refittable_cargo_types": a) it has this weird 32 cargos limit, and b) it flips both on and off refitability, depending on if the cargo was already covered by any of the cargo classes, so if an industry set changes the cargo classes of the cargo, you get "wrong" results
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14:41<andythenorth>and then there is whining
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14:42<Supercheese>Huh lots of changes in advanced settings
14:42<Supercheese>Oh yay, that means I won't have to translate those \o/
14:42<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, frosch123 was on a rampage
14:43<Eddi|zuHause>maybe he should play goat simulator
14:43<Supercheese>I wasn't looking forward to "screenshot format" in Latin
14:43<peter1139>Nothing like a dead language to translate to.
14:44<Eddi|zuHause>what
14:44<Eddi|zuHause>'s the etymology of "screen"?
14:45<Supercheese>Actually, I think Wesnoth already had translated that, now that I think about it
14:45<Eddi|zuHause>i imagine "shot" and "format" are both words that already existed in roman times, just repurposed
14:46<Supercheese>eh, it wouldn't have been that hard, but now I don't even have to ;)
14:46<Phreeze>screenshot format = screenshot format in any language, if you don't mess up the foreign language
14:47<Phreeze>19:49:54] <@planetmaker> and list explicitly those known in cargo_(dis)allow_refit. And use classes for yet unknown
14:47<Phreeze>the problem is not the cargo
14:47<Phreeze>but for open hoppers e.g i need to assign a sprite to the cargo
14:48<Phreeze>i cant just use black coal sprites for grain or so
14:48<Eddi|zuHause>Phreeze: that is totally separate
14:48<Phreeze>not really: i have to define sth like : MAIZ: sg_fcs_grain;
14:48<Phreeze>with an unknown cargo, what sprite do i assign ?
14:49<Phreeze>default: sg_fcs_grain;
14:49<Eddi|zuHause>Phreeze: it's totally independent from the refitable lists.
14:49<peter1139>Something generic.
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14:49<Phreeze>would show yellow "grains" even if the new cargo was red jelly beans
14:49<Eddi|zuHause>grey sounds good for generic
14:49<peter1139>Cover it with a tarp.
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14:49<Phreeze>haha, that's cheating ;)
14:49<@Alberth>some cargos need to be covered in a hopper
14:50<Phreeze>yeah, but not in ottd^^
14:50<Eddi|zuHause>people will care more for actually transporting stuff rather than what it looks like
14:50<Phreeze>in standard vehicles grains are transported "open"
14:50<Eddi|zuHause>people have been playing with dbxl_ecs.grf for years
14:50<peter1139>Make it a big read question-mark.
14:50<Phreeze>hm "people" like me look into deetail :)
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14:50<peter1139>Lots of NewGRFs have covered cargo.
14:50<@Alberth>make an update when a new cargo is added :)
14:51<Eddi|zuHause>Phreeze: but you can't look into the future
14:51<Phreeze>i can ! :>
14:51<Phreeze>"i touch boobs to look into feature. with money-refund garantee"
14:51<Eddi|zuHause>Phreeze: there are 4 billion cargo labels
14:51<@Alberth>ok, look into your crystal ball, and do what it tells you :)
14:53-!-Tirili [~chatzilla@kel30.kel.studentenwerk-goettingen.de] has quit []
15:04<Phreeze>btw: is it possible to receive an email if new strings are added/changed in the webtranslator ?
15:04<@Alberth>currently not afaik
15:05<Phreeze>STR_ERROR_GROUP_CAN_T_SET_PARENT
15:05<Phreeze>{WHITE}Can't set parent group...
15:05<Phreeze>how is it translated in german ? :)
15:05<Phreeze>cant find the word in my own language....(often the german word helps then..)
15:06<@Alberth>{WEISS}Kan ja die eltern grouppe nicht zetzen?
15:06<@Alberth>(pig-german)
15:06<Phreeze>do
15:06<Phreeze>not
15:06<Phreeze>use
15:06<Phreeze>google
15:06<Phreeze>translate.....anymore
15:06<@Alberth>I didn't
15:06<Phreeze>yeah i see ;)
15:07<@planetmaker>lol, Alberth :)
15:07<Phreeze>is alberth dutch ?
15:07<@Alberth>no, alberth is not a dutch word
15:08*Phreeze slaps Alberth around a bit with a large trout
15:08<@planetmaker>*snap* nom nom
15:08<@planetmaker>yummi
15:08*planetmaker slaps PHreeze with the fish bone of a large trout
15:08<Phreeze>hey
15:09<Eddi|zuHause>did planetmaker turn into a cat?
15:09<Phreeze>Felix the cat
15:09<Eddi|zuHause>likes fish, catches stuff in mid-flight?
15:10<@Alberth>he didn't say meow
15:10<Eddi|zuHause>not all cats meow
15:10<Eddi|zuHause>especially feral cats
15:11<Supercheese>or japanese cats, they nyan
15:11<@planetmaker>chhrrrr!
15:11<Phreeze>and fart rainbows
15:11<Supercheese>or maybe just nya
15:11<Supercheese>I can never really tell
15:11<Samu>i created a little video. I'm afraid it's difficult to read text on it
15:12<Samu>https://onedrive.live.com/?cid=23b29f3de45f6f1f&id=23B29F3DE45F6F1F%21599&sff=1
15:12<Phreeze>whats the resolution O_o
15:12<Samu>1280x720, but try fullscreen
15:12<Supercheese>it seems dynamically compressed
15:13<Samu>should upscale perfect
15:13<Samu>1920x1080
15:13<Samu>at least
15:13<Supercheese>i.e. when the screen contents are changing rapidly the resolution is dramatically reduced
15:13<Supercheese>but when the screen remains static for a time, the resolution increases
15:13<Phreeze>ship is lost ^^
15:13<Samu>yeah that bug
15:13<Phreeze>k resolution is ok now
15:14<Eddi|zuHause>use less compression
15:14<Samu>it's not lost
15:14<Phreeze>what's the purpose of the video ?
15:14<Eddi|zuHause>set ship pathfinder to YAPF, ships get lost way less
15:15<Phreeze>eddi, {WHITE}Can't set parent group... <-- how do you translate this into german ?
15:16<Samu>pathfinder is YAPF already
15:16<Samu>for ships
15:16<Samu>the server isn't mine btw
15:16<peter1139>Oh god the terrible MIDI music, make it stooooop.
15:17<peter1139>(The Nirvana rip-off, hah)
15:17<Supercheese>"{WHITE}Übergeordnete Gruppe kann nicht gesetzt werden..."
15:17<Supercheese>according to the OTTD source
15:17<Phreeze>hm...
15:17<Phreeze>translates weird into luxembourgish
15:17<Supercheese>"parent" being "the group this subgroup belongs to"
15:18<Samu>also trains and ships are forbiden to take 90 degrees
15:18<Phreeze>yep
15:19<Superuser>Supercheese: we meet again
15:22<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: nice reply on the layers of patches
15:23<Samu>Oh about MIDI music
15:24<Samu>the system no longer goes mute
15:24<Samu>the culprit was Adobe Flash
15:25<Samu>if you recall, I had an issue with MIDI music making the whole system sound going mute, that only a reboot would be able to fix
15:27<Samu>it was related to DRM stuff, you know... copyrighted audio parts screwing with the windows audio
15:31<Rubidium>Phreeze: you could use some svn commit monitor and configure it to look only at changes to /trunk/src/lang/english.txt
15:31<Phreeze>...
15:31<Eddi|zuHause>Samu: sue them for computer sabotage
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15:32<Samu>I went to their tech support forum and geee... so many systems with the same issue
15:32<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26531 trunk/src/lang/english.txt (2014-04-27 19:32:22 UTC)
15:32<@DorpsGek>-Fix-ish: improve consistency of the usage of max and maximum
15:32<Rubidium>Phreeze: new updates ;)
15:32<Samu>it usually involves a Creative sound card or audio chipset
15:32<Samu>which I have
15:32<Phreeze>translation currently locked...gna...
15:33<Phreeze>3 strings to validate ...
15:33<Rubidium>Samu: then it isn't flash, but it's the driver/hardware of the sound card
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15:33<Rubidium>Phreeze: should be more than just 3
15:33<Samu>well, I uninstalled adobe flash, never installed it again, and my system has never been muted
15:34<Samu>ever since
15:34<Phreeze>it's 3 left
15:34<Phreeze>checked the 30 other ones already and added the 3 new
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15:45*Rubidium sees 14 strings needing translation for Luxembourgish
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16:01<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26532 /branches/1.4 (57 files in 3 dirs) (2014-04-27 20:01:21 UTC)
16:01<@DorpsGek>[1.4] -Backport: language updates
16:05<@planetmaker>good night
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16:40<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26533 /trunk/src (59 files in 3 dirs) (2014-04-27 20:40:52 UTC)
16:40<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Rename some strings
16:41<Phreeze>...locked again :D
16:41<Phreeze>damn commiter
16:41<Phreeze>s
16:41<@planetmaker>lol :)
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16:41<frosch123>will happen again :)
16:42<frosch123>i just have to wait to not completely break it again
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16:46<frosch123>Phreeze: please do not retranslate the strings i am removing now :)
16:46<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26534 /trunk/src/lang (57 files in 2 dirs) (2014-04-27 20:46:43 UTC)
16:46<@DorpsGek>-Remove: Soon unneeded translations.
16:50<Eddi|zuHause>Phreeze: that's what you get for trying to do work in one of the two months where actual development happens :)
16:51<Eddi|zuHause>there's only ever development in april and november. other times it's either "the weather is too nice" or "the release is too close"
16:51<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26535 /trunk/src/lang (56 files in 2 dirs) (2014-04-27 20:51:28 UTC)
16:51<@DorpsGek>-Remove: Missed one
16:53<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26536 /trunk/src (lang/english.txt settings_gui.cpp) (2014-04-27 20:52:56 UTC)
16:53<@DorpsGek>-Change: Reshuffle advanced settings tree.
16:54<Supercheese>Oh man
16:54<Supercheese>my poor, poor translation working copy
16:54<Supercheese>is now horribly outdated
16:55<@planetmaker>the strings themselves did not change really
16:55-!-Haube1 [~michi@37-4-140-125-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:55<Supercheese>lots removed though
16:55<Supercheese>I'm not really complaining, but yeah, actual development
16:55<Supercheese>zounds
16:55<frosch123>Phreeze: you can continue for today :)
16:55<frosch123>planetmaker: even german is unfinished
16:56<Eddi|zuHause>these lazy german translators all the time
16:56<frosch123>i am removing strings and all languages are unfinished nevertheless :p
16:56<@planetmaker>again? I finished it already once today :P
16:57<__ln___>once Supercheese's latin translation is finished, it shall replace English as the primary source language for all other translations, right
16:57<@planetmaker>omg... what's a good translation of 'authority'?
16:57<@planetmaker>"Gebietskörperschaft". yeah... sure :P
16:57<Supercheese>I should hope not
16:57<frosch123>Verwaltung
16:57<Supercheese>I am far from perfect
16:57<Supercheese>there are bound to be errors
16:57<frosch123>"Öffentliche Verwaltung" even
16:58<Supercheese>Auctoritas ;)
16:59<Phreeze>STR_CONFIG_SETTING_ACCOUNTING
16:59<Phreeze>in what context is this meant ?
16:59<Phreeze>{ORANGE}Accounting
16:59<frosch123>Phreeze: http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/settings2014_2.png
16:59-!-zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:59<Eddi|zuHause>"Buchhaltung"
16:59<Phreeze>planetmaker : Authorität would fit the best
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17:00<Phreeze>other strings might be too long for the button etc. imho
17:00<Eddi|zuHause>Phreeze: buttons scale with the text
17:00<Eddi|zuHause>Phreeze: and that is a horrible translation
17:00<Phreeze>Stadtrat could be one too xD
17:00<@planetmaker>no sound yet, frosch123 ?
17:01<Phreeze>Behörde <--- ???
17:01<Phreeze>accounting
17:01<Phreeze>fc
17:02<@planetmaker>ah, nvm. changed strings
17:02<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: can you make this image with all default values?
17:02-!-sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has quit []
17:02<frosch123>no :p
17:03<frosch123>why?
17:03<@planetmaker>wiki
17:03<Eddi|zuHause>for the wiki, as reference
17:03<frosch123>then wait till it is done
17:03-!-Aristide [~quassel@81.253.0.39] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:04<Supercheese>oh poop
17:04<Supercheese>should all of these setting titles be genitive, since they are types of settings...?
17:04<frosch123>it will gain some more settings from other windows
17:04<@planetmaker>Supercheese, I don't think so
17:04<@planetmaker>Those are titles
17:04<Eddi|zuHause>Supercheese: what has genitive to do with anything?
17:04<Supercheese>"These are station settings"
17:05<Supercheese>hmm
17:05<Supercheese>Yeah, guess not
17:05<Eddi|zuHause>no, they are standalone nouns
17:06<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know any latin at all, but in german i'd use "Nominativ"
17:06<Supercheese>Latin cases correspond pretty much exactly to German cases from what I know
17:06<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: do you know czech maybe?
17:07<frosch123>Supercheese: not at all, german has 4 of the 7 latin cases
17:07<Eddi|zuHause>not nearly as far as to the point where cases matter :p
17:07<frosch123>Supercheese: or rather 3
17:07-!-ABCRic [~ABCRic@a79-169-2-218.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #openttd
17:07*frosch123 hides
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17:07<Eddi|zuHause>"nobody uses genitive anymore"?
17:08<frosch123>except in fixed phrases
17:08<Eddi|zuHause>"Wem seins is die Kaffeetasse?"
17:08<Supercheese>Latin really only has 5 major cases
17:08<Supercheese>so it seems German has amalgamated ablative into one of the other 4
17:08<@planetmaker>Tu quoque!
17:09<Eddi|zuHause>"you chicken"?
17:09<@planetmaker>Tu quoque, Brute, mee filie
17:09<frosch123>Supercheese: into dativ mostly
17:09<frosch123>using prepositions
17:09<Supercheese>makes sense, even in Latin ablative and dative are similar
17:10<Eddi|zuHause>that's usually the point where learning foreign languages is most difficult: distinguishing things that are merged in your native language
17:11<Eddi|zuHause>like "ser" and "estar" in spanish
17:11<Rubidium>what's more annoying is that words have slightly different meanings
17:11<Supercheese>oh yes, that one always trips me up
17:12<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: well that's vocabulary, it's solvable by investing enough time in it
17:12<frosch123>oh, i was quite suprised yesterday when i heard an english speaker trying to pronounce "euer", which results in something quite close to "your"
17:12<Supercheese>"oooh-err"
17:13<Supercheese>eu being "oy" is very strange to English speakers
17:13<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: well the words ARE closely related
17:14<Eddi|zuHause>many german words you can turn into english by simple vowel shift
17:14<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: well, i would have guessed them to be unreleted before. but now it looks only like some small shift
17:14<@planetmaker>it sure is
17:15<Eddi|zuHause>most of the time german shifted while english stayed
17:15<@planetmaker>leur in French surely is also the same
17:15<frosch123>yeah, weird people on islands
17:15<frosch123>they have stuff like kangaroos and such
17:16<Supercheese>Soooo, in STR_CONFIG_SETTING_PATHFINDER_FOR_TRAINS and associated HELPTEXT
17:16<Supercheese>sometimes it's "pathfinder" all one word
17:17<Supercheese>other times "path finder" separated
17:17<Supercheese>any particular reason for that...?
17:18<Rubidium>I doubt there's a good reason for it
17:18<Rubidium>just inconsistency... and that's not uncommon because it's an evolving set of strings
17:19<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not a native speaker, but i would combine them
17:19<Supercheese>I vote to combine them
17:19<Supercheese>it's almost always found compounded as a single word
17:20<Supercheese>i.e. Nissan Pathfinder, Mars Pathfinder
17:20<Supercheese>errr, e.g.
17:20<Supercheese>damnit
17:20<Eddi|zuHause>interesting fact: in german i'd use "search" insead of "find" in the word
17:21<Eddi|zuHause>"Pfadfinder" sounds very boyscout-y
17:21<Supercheese>or military
17:21<Supercheese>Pathfinding Corps
17:21<Eddi|zuHause>whereas "Pfadsuche" will actually be understood as what that thing does
17:23<Rubidium>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3281/ <- lines in english.txt per release (about 20% larger than the actual number of strings)
17:24<Eddi|zuHause>filter out empty lines and comments first?
17:24<Rubidium>TMWFTLB
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17:25<Eddi|zuHause>grep -v?
17:25<Eddi|zuHause>so it almost doubled since i came here
17:25<Rubidium>find . -iname english.txt|xargs wc -l
17:26<Rubidium>grep -v will mean I'd need at least a for loop and something to print the version
17:26<Eddi|zuHause>find -exec
17:26<Rubidium>and actually I'd use grep ^STR
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>that even leaves out the "unsafe" xargs
17:27<andythenorth>bye
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17:27<Rubidium>good idea andy ;)
17:28<Eddi|zuHause>andy has so many ideas, some of them are bound to be good :p
17:32<Supercheese>Beer; always a good idea
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17:58<frosch123>night
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18:14<Wolf01>'night
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19:11<Snail>anyone knows how to download an old stable version of ottd?
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19:15<FLHerne>Snail: binaries.openttd.org/binaries/releases/index.html
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19:16<Snail>thanksQ
19:16<Snail>thanks!
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19:41<Samu>when i download using the online content downloader, sometimes I get an upgrade available, i download it, and next time I check, it's still available again
19:41<Samu>is this a bug?
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---Logclosed Mon Apr 28 00:00:48 2014