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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-04-30

---Logopened Wed Apr 30 00:00:50 2014
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00:41<peter1139>hurr
00:43<Supercheese>durr
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02:00<@planetmaker>moin
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03:35<supermop>hi
03:36<supermop>just had the pleasure of carrying a roll of carpet on a train, then a bus
03:36<supermop>plus around 1000m of walking
03:43<__ln___>i assume 'm' stands for meters and not miles here
03:44<supermop>i don't i would have bothered with the bus or train if i was walking that far already!
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05:23<Flygon>supermop: I presume you've seen the Chasers clip where they try to take furnature onto PT
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05:36<Eddi|zuHause>i've transported a refrigerator by train
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05:41<__ln___>i heard of someone who transported an electric sauna stove in airplane... as hand luggage.
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05:48<Eddi|zuHause>i have no idea how large a sauna stone is
05:48<Eddi|zuHause>*stove
05:49<peter1139>A stove is an enclosed space in which fuel is burned to provide heating
05:49<peter1139>Burning that electricity yo
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05:50<__ln___>it must be the correct term, it's from wikipedia
05:52<__ln___>anyway, small electric ones are something around 60×50×30 cm or so.
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06:42<supermop>no idea what chasers is, Flygon
06:42<supermop>i've carried lots of furniture on the subway in new york
06:42<Flygon>The Chasers War on Everything?
06:43<supermop>and a stack of steel stools on two trams here
06:43<Flygon>Carrying Washing Machines is aperantly very common on the Metro here
06:43<supermop>a small table on the 86 as well
06:44<Flygon>...wait, how do yoy carry a table onto a Tram?
06:44<Flygon>Low floor?
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06:44<supermop>nope, 86 is all B-class
06:45<Flygon>Far out
06:45<Flygon>Cop flak from the driver?
06:45<supermop>in new york, a ladder, various chairs, cabinetry, lots of shelving,
06:45<Flygon>Then again, you did say small
06:45<supermop>dont know, boarded in the center door
06:46<Flygon>Ah, right, I forgot that's easier to get into
06:46<supermop>bus driver tonight was a bit sceptical looking
06:46<supermop>and then i accidentally pulled the cord for the stop too soon
06:46<Flygon>Ah, a guy tried to take a home entertainment system (sans TV) onto the bus I was on...
06:46<Flygon>Since it was peak hour, and a high floor bus
06:46<Flygon>It was a no sell
06:47<supermop>and had to get off there, but then traffic was such that i was keeping pace with the bus as i walked with my carpet, getting a weirder look from the driver for that than when i got on in the first place
06:47<Samu>how do I keep someone's password on their company when I save the game?
06:48<Samu>i had to go to sleep, but today, I loaded that save to continue
06:48<Samu>companies had no password :(
06:49<supermop>no idea Samu
06:49<supermop>sorry
06:50<Samu>had the inconvenient of a random guy coming in and ruining a company
06:50<Samu>:(
06:51<Flygon>Ouch
06:51<Flygon>>_<
06:51<Flygon>Sorry
06:52<Samu>i re-loaded the save game to recover, but some time was lost
06:57<V453000>Samu: passwords are saved on server, not in savegame
06:57<V453000>so if you reload a save on server, pws get lost
06:58<Samu>i was hosting
06:59<Samu>how would I recover the passwords then?
07:00<@planetmaker>there are no passwords after reload
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07:02<Samu>hmm, how do I protect a company after re-load?
07:02<Samu>is it possible?
07:03<supermop>could you set a password for it yourself, then if the legitimate owner asks for it, you give it to them?
07:05<@planetmaker>Samu, set passwords after loading a map
07:05<@planetmaker>just like supermop says
07:08<Samu>done
07:08<Samu>not optimal, but it can work
07:09<Samu>strange bug
07:09<@planetmaker>it's not a bug
07:10<Samu>i can click to buy 25% shares of company 2, but not of company 4, while being a spectator
07:10<Samu>sorry, it's something else
07:10<Samu>company 1 is an AI
07:10<Samu>can't buy his shares
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07:11<@planetmaker>companies need to have a certain age before you can trade their shares
07:11<Samu>can't buy shares anyway
07:11<Samu>i am a spectator, and the buy / sell 25% shares is not greyed out
07:12<Samu>what age do they need?
07:12<@planetmaker>dunno. check wiki
07:12<@planetmaker>a few years
07:12<Samu>im posting a screenshot, it will speak for itself
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07:14<Samu>http://i.imgur.com/FcBQ190.png
07:15<Samu>Pink is the AI - company 1
07:19<V453000>not like the shares are anyhow impactful
07:29<@planetmaker>what openttd version, samu?
07:29<Samu>1.4.0
07:31<supermop>these listings claim to versand weltweit, but i somehow don't believe that they will sent to australia, nor that aus customs will let the item through
07:32<pthagnar>the face generator really does make some funny looking people
07:33<@planetmaker>Samu, that should be fixed in trunk and is scheduled for backport to 1.4.1
07:33<@planetmaker>you could try with a nightly to check
07:34<@planetmaker>supermop, why not? Of course you might need to pay duties. Or they fraudulently send it as 'gift'
07:35<@planetmaker>and if it's "weltweit", parcels from Germany (or Austria or Switzerland) are not that suspicious, are they?
07:38<Samu>ok, thanks
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07:40<supermop>everything entering australia seems to be suspicious
07:41<supermop>amazon will ship shampoo to me here, but not a case for my nexus, nor any of the headphones i want to buy
07:41<supermop>nor the bluetooth speak i want
07:42<Xaroth|Work>duh
07:42<Xaroth|Work>nexus cases don't kill people
07:42<Xaroth|Work>neither do headphones
07:42<Samu>looks like im missing files
07:42<Xaroth|Work>the australians only want things that can kill you in an instant
07:42<Xaroth|Work>like crocodiles, and venomous snakes
07:42<Xaroth|Work>your headphones are too soft for them
07:42<@planetmaker>two-step poison for the win
07:42<Samu>downloaded trunk into a zip file, must I replace the original install?
07:43<supermop>all of which are available from various Australian sellers and stores at anywhere from 150-300% of what they cost is other 'expensive' countries...
07:43<Xaroth|Work>that's due to the added lethality of the items :)
07:43<Samu>can i rename openttd.exe to something different?
07:43<@planetmaker>Samu, no, just unpack in a separate dir
07:43<supermop>i feel like a 50 year old heizlufter should be acceptably dangerous...
07:43<Samu>I did, it doesn't run
07:43<Samu>missing files from original tycoon CD, and a corrupt opensfx.grf
07:43<@planetmaker>unpack the *whole* zip in a separate dir
07:44<Samu>opensfx0.2.3/something.cat
07:45<Samu>TRG1R.GRF, other similar named files are missing
07:46<Samu>i need to copy these files over to the extracted folder
07:46<@planetmaker>no. You should copy them to the *shared* documents folder. Readme section 4
07:47<Samu>C:\Users\Ricardo\Documents\OpenTTD - this one?
07:48<@planetmaker>obviously there are sub-folders
07:48<Samu>im figuring out. When I installed 1.4.0, it must have put those files in program files
07:49<@planetmaker>that's bit of a bad place. Maybe the installer did so, dunno
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07:49<Samu>just found them
07:50<Samu>the installer put them here: C:\Program Files\OpenTTD\baseset\opensfx
07:50<Wolf01>hello
07:50<Samu>and the TRGxx.GRF files were installed here C:\Program Files\OpenTTD\baseset
07:51<Samu>so I just copy the baseset folder into shared documents baseset?
07:51<Samu>it's empty btw
07:52<@planetmaker>just copy everything in C:\Program Files\OpenTTD to C:\Users\Ricardo\Documents\OpenTTD
07:52<@planetmaker>including every frigging directory
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07:57<Samu>it works
07:57<Samu>i only had to copy what was inside baseset
07:59<Samu>i got put right into the AI company
07:59<@planetmaker>yes, mind my advise when you encounter the next problem with "I don't find X but the other install finds it"
07:59<Samu>i can build
08:00<@planetmaker>and pay me 10€ when you come with a question whose answer is "copy..." ;)
08:00<Samu>ok
08:00<Samu>lol
08:01<Samu>well, the shares thing is now fixed, but I'm put right into company 1, which is owned by an AI
08:01<Samu>and I can build on it
08:02<@planetmaker>part of the answer might cost 10€ :P
08:04<Samu>it also fixes that bug I reported yesterday or before
08:04<Samu>but company 1 in this case is an AI
08:04<Samu>:(
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08:23<Samu>nevermind, it didn't fix the bug I reported
08:24<Samu>https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6001?project=1
08:25<Samu>i have an idea, when hosting, just host as a spectator, no companies
08:25<Samu>when restarting, it should behave better
08:26<Samu>it restarts hosting, no companies again
08:26<Samu>but I'm no programmer
08:26<Samu>could be wrong
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08:44<Samu>there's yet another bug!
08:45<Samu>when an AI starts a company, it comes with a lock icon next to his password
08:45<Samu>if I save the game and load it back, the lock disappears
08:45<Samu>not sure how this will affect autoclean, but I assume the worst
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08:54<Samu>grr, i can't reproduce the bug
08:54<Samu>must have been the effect of "restart" in console
08:59<Samu>question: Can AIs set passwords for their companies?
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09:17<Samu>strange bug finding today, now with save game
09:17<Samu>it was supposed to save as PAXLink, *random_date-1951*
09:18<Samu>it saved as another name
09:18<Samu>On Your Way Transport, *random-date-1982*
09:19<Samu>that was an AI name from another save game
09:19<Samu>at least the savegame file itself was saved properly
09:19<Samu>only the name was not
09:20<Eddi|zuHause>did you click on the savegame and it changed its name so it would overwrite it?
09:25<Samu>nope
09:26<Samu>the other save didn't even have that name
09:26<Samu>it was AK Transport
09:30<Samu>omg
09:30<Samu>it ate a savegame after all
09:30<Samu>i swear I did not click on it
09:30<Samu>it was saying PAXLink when saving
09:30<Samu>it overwritten On Your Way Transport instead
09:30<Samu>bah....
09:32<Samu>that was my backup save of my server
09:35<Samu>I'm searching my whole computer for a PAXLink file
09:36<Samu>PAXLink-14.tar
09:36<Samu>bah, that's not it
09:36<Samu>there is no other PAXLink files
09:37<Samu>no PAXLink save game at all :/
10:05<Samu>wow, im on a roll today (sorry, another bug)
10:06<Eddi|zuHause>sorry, but "inability to use the program correctly" is not a bug
10:06<Samu>when running in window mode and right click dragging the screen to scroll the mouse
10:06<Samu>oops, to scroll the screen
10:07<Samu>and then another window popup in the meanwhile
10:07<Samu>the game keeps dragging the window
10:07<Samu>and I can't put my mosue cursor over it
10:07<Samu>can't stop dragging
10:07<@planetmaker>that bug exists somewhere in the bug database
10:08<Samu>i alt-tabbed back into the openttd window fine, though still moving the screen as if the right button wasn't released
10:09<Samu>right clicked to release and it fixed it
10:09<Samu>Eddi|zuHause: the save game problem is real
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10:09<andythenorth>FIRS is remarkably unpopular
10:09<Samu>i did save again just to make sure
10:10<Samu>it was saying it was going to save as PAXLink once more
10:10<Eddi|zuHause>i don't doubt you have a problem, but i do doubt it's a bug
10:10<Samu>it saved as On Your Way Transport
10:11<Samu>and that was the name of another savegame, it's gone now
10:11<Samu>it ate it
10:12<Samu>didn't even ask if it was going to overwrite
10:12<Samu>just saved right away
10:12<Eddi|zuHause>did it ever do that?
10:12<Samu>yes
10:12<Samu>it must be related with restart command in console, I was toying with that
10:12<Samu>i will try to recreate the steps
10:14<andythenorth>22k downloads for FIRS vs. 256k for ECS and 43k for TAI Industries
10:16<Rubidium>last update was 1 week vs 2 years vs 6 months ago?
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10:20<@planetmaker>@calc 256 / 104
10:20<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 2.46153846154
10:20<@planetmaker>so, 10x the ECS downloads :P
10:20<@planetmaker>@calc 43/24
10:20<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 1.79166666667
10:20<@planetmaker>same with TAI
10:20<Rubidium>planetmaker: I was pulling numbers out of thin air
10:21<@planetmaker>bad math is bad, though
10:22<Samu>could it be because of different openttd versions?
10:22<Samu>the save was 1.4.0, loading on r24xxx something
10:22<Samu>loaded an old save
10:23<Samu>then restart on console
10:23<Samu>then save game
10:23<Samu>could that be it?
10:23<@planetmaker>by pure speculation it similarily could be caused by the butterfly in china
10:24<Samu>r26540, sorry
10:24<Samu>r26540 loaded a 1.4.0, then restart, then save game
10:24<Samu>some stuff happening inbetween like autoclean, joining spectators, damn i must find what caused it
10:27<Samu>question: Can AIs set passwords for their companies?
10:27<Samu>that needed answer
10:28<@planetmaker>https://nogo.openttd.org/api/ <-- find out
10:32<Samu>no?
10:35<Eddi|zuHause>people shouln't be able to join AI companies
10:36<Samu>i have an AI company with a lock, I suspect it was due to autocleaning a human passworded company
10:36<Samu>an AI took its slot, and also the password
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10:38<Samu>hence my question
10:38<Samu>can AIs set passwords for their companies?
10:38<Eddi|zuHause>you "suspect" too much, instead of giving reproducible steps
10:39<Samu>easy
10:39<Samu>start a multiplayer game
10:39<Samu>move yourself to spectator
10:39<Samu>wait for an AI to begin
10:39<Samu>forgot to say, I have the default password button pressed
10:40<Samu>wait for your company to auto-clean and some AI to take its spot
10:40<Samu>autocleaning no vehicles
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10:43<Samu>about the save game bug, I almost reproduced it, now I'm getting a different behaviour, an error
10:44<Samu>when I'm saving, an error says, Game Save Failed. File not writable
10:44<Samu>it is attempting to save as AIAI, 1951-03-11
10:47<Samu>tried with another name, still the same error
10:47<Samu>can't save game at all
10:47<Samu>now due to error
10:49<Samu>gonna try to reproduce the savegame again, and if I get the same behaviour, I'm creating a bug report on flyspray
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10:59<Samu>well well
11:00<Samu>it happens in r26540 and not on 1.4.0
11:00<Samu>shall I report ?
11:06<Eddi|zuHause>may be related to this one: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=70472&view=unread#unread
11:07<Samu>it's running as admin
11:08<Samu>cannot save game
11:08<Samu>that's the error I get
11:08<Samu>gonna try to save somewhere else
11:09<Samu>can't save anywhere
11:09<Samu>c:
11:09<Samu>d:
11:12<Samu>damn, this is much easier to reproduce than I thougt
11:12<Samu>start a game, try to save
11:12<Samu>error
11:12<Samu>or
11:13<Samu>load a game
11:13<Samu>save the game
11:13<Samu>will overwrite the loaded game instead
11:13<Samu>no matter the name it shows
11:14<Samu>this is for r26540
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11:50<Samu>https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6002
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12:31<Samu>the AI with a lock icon (company passworded): https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6003
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12:41<Phreeze>yo
12:41<Samu>hi
12:43<Phreeze>does anybody know sth about lego mindstorms ? :D
12:45<peter1139>sth!
12:45<Phreeze>something :)
12:47<Samu>this just in, another bug, I am so sorry
12:47<Samu>this one is related to Pathfinder for ships, must check which one it is
12:48<Samu>it's YAPF
12:48<Samu>the ship is trying to service at a ship depot
12:48<Samu>to do that, it must turn back
12:49<Samu>when it goes the opposite direction, his order switches to going again to a dock, turning back again
12:49<Samu>it's on a loop
12:49<Samu>doing this
12:49<Samu>back and forth, neither going to depot, nor dock
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12:57<Samu>come to Vulturis citybuilder server if you want to take a look, it's Ship 7
12:58<Samu>http://www.openttd.org/en/server/66863
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13:14<Xaroth|Work>Samu: you can easily fix that by forcing the ship to do something else :|
13:19<Samu>done
13:20<Samu>this path finder is actually good
13:21<Samu>needs a little bit of tweaking when servicing, but for the rest, it really takes the correct paths
13:23-!-NGC982 [~kruger@h215n4-vj-d3.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #openttd
13:23<NGC982>Good evening.
13:23<NGC982>I just upgraded my laptops to Windows 8.
13:23<NGC982>Also, OpenTTD to version 1.4.0.
13:23*Phreeze hands a medal over to NGC982
13:23<Samu>you mean windblows 8 as I name it
13:24<NGC982>For some reason, i keep loosing connection to any server i try to connect to.
13:24<Samu>must be windblows firewall?
13:24<NGC982>A firewall setting that let's me play "a bit"?
13:25<Samu>then.... wireless?
13:25<NGC982>An OpenTTD related issue is not probable, but i just need to know if anyone of you recognice this, so i can take it off my list.
13:25<NGC982>Yes, wireless.
13:25<Samu>ok, try restarting modem/windblows
13:26<Samu>i have the same issue, and it's not just for openttd
13:26<Samu>i know for sure it's my wireless
13:27<+glx>crappy wireless router ;)
13:27<NGC982>Absolutely not.
13:28<NGC982>I can measure latency, transfer, over head and similar.
13:28<NGC982>Not an issue.
13:28<NGC982>I do think it's w8 that's hasseling with application allowance on my wifi connection.
13:28<NGC982>max_lag_time 32000 did not make any difference. :(
13:29<Samu>my ping isn't constant to my router
13:30<Samu>and sometimes it doesn't ping, i get general error
13:30<Samu>that's when I disconnect from games, internet
13:30<Samu>then it comes back
13:30<Samu>like nothing happened
13:30-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d011a33.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
13:31<NGC982>Hey, what on earth.
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13:45<Phreeze>NGC982 solved ?
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26545 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2014-04-30 17:45:35 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>catalan - 1 changes by juanjo
13:45<@DorpsGek>croatian - 27 changes by VoyagerOne
13:45<@DorpsGek>czech - 4 changes by djst
13:45<@DorpsGek>korean - 8 changes by telk5093
13:56<NGC982>Phreeze: No, it did not.
13:57<NGC982>Phreeze: But yes, i now know it is not OpenTTD related.
13:58<Phreeze>torrent runnin ?
13:58<Phreeze>or other stuff that establishes a lot of connections
13:59<Samu>me? I'm using onedrive to sync folders
13:59<NGC982>No, nothing like that. I removed every other process in my router simply to try this.
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14:00<Samu>i should be getting 300 Mbps when transferring to another computer, I get way less
14:01<Phreeze>300mbit ?
14:01<Phreeze>wifi ?
14:01<Samu>the other is cabled, so it's 1 Gbps
14:01<Phreeze>thats only theorie
14:01<Rubidium>so, what are you getting?
14:01<Samu>it's a wireless network card
14:01<Phreeze>-ie +y
14:01<Samu>it's some TPLink model
14:01<Markk>The HDD is the weak spot.
14:02<NGC982>Markk: Hi.
14:06<Samu>ok, it's copying files
14:06<Samu>averaging 20 Mbps
14:06<Samu>should be 300
14:06<Samu>meh
14:07<Rubidium>or is it saying MBps?
14:08<Phreeze>MB = megabyte Mb = megabit
14:08<Phreeze>1byte = 8bit
14:08<Samu>it's Mbps I/O
14:08<Rubidium>because, at least in Windows, it's showing MB/s, not Mb/s
14:08<Phreeze>nvm, have to go
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14:08<Rubidium>alternatively, your wifi is on a crowded channel with lots of interference
14:09<Samu>not crowded at all
14:09<Samu>there's barely anyone with internet where I live
14:09<Rubidium>doesn't mean they aren't on the same channel you use
14:10<Samu>how do I check that?
14:10<Samu>in the router page?
14:10<peter1139>WiFi never gets anywhere near the full stated speed.
14:11<Rubidium>you'd need some tools to see what channels the nearby wireless network are on. I wouldn't know how that's called on Windows though
14:12<Samu>channel 6, 9, 11 are being used by... APs?
14:12<Samu>it is listing 5 nearby networks
14:12<Samu>they're using those 3 channels
14:13<Samu>I'm currently on channel 6
14:16<Samu>windows isn't detecting any other wi-fi except mine
14:16<Samu>there's really no one here
14:17<Samu>with 3 bars only
14:17<Samu>t.t
14:17<Samu>poor signal
14:22<Rubidium>not being able to detect doesn't mean it doesn't disrupt the signals of your network
14:29<Samu>wait, im photoshoping my connection
14:31<Samu>the modem detects less APs nearby now
14:31<Samu>http://i.imgur.com/ujuvSZh.png
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14:31<Samu>do you know how to interpret that?
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15:05<Samu>hi orudeg
15:06<Samu>do you remember me?
15:07<Samu>orudge:
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15:44<DanMacK1>hey all
15:44<DanMacK1>@seen Andythenorth
15:44<@DorpsGek>DanMacK1: Andythenorth was last seen in #openttd 5 hours, 30 minutes, and 28 seconds ago: <andythenorth> 22k downloads for FIRS vs. 256k for ECS and 43k for TAI Industries
15:47<Samu>it takes 53 seconds CPU time to generate a 4096x4096 map
15:47-!-chrswk [~chrswk@213.188.53.45] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:48<Samu>buf AMD
15:49<__ln___>53 seconds CPU time or wall clock time?
15:49<Samu>cpu time in task manager
15:49<__ln___>ok
15:49-!-luaduck [~luaduck@0001c465.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:49<Samu>now generating using zBase
15:50<Samu>must be fun...
15:52<Samu>54 seconds
15:54<Samu>takes 6% cpu usage just to run the game
15:55<Samu>generating map takes 13% cpu usage
15:56<Samu>12.5%, it's single-threaded, right?
15:56<Samu>8 cores
15:57-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd
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15:59<andythenorth>o/
15:59<andythenorth>DanMacK: hi hi
16:00<+glx>Samu: there's a thread for the progressbar IIRC
16:01<andythenorth>we’ll just not discuss the war-themed newgrfs, right? :)
16:01<frosch123>Samu: enable all ecs vectors, set high industry density, and wait 3 hours for a 4kx4k map
16:01<+glx>and have no industries on the map at the end ;)
16:01-!-sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has quit []
16:01<Samu>ECS?
16:02<frosch123>some newgrf
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16:05<Samu>3 hours?
16:05<frosch123>try it :)
16:06<Samu>i filter by ECS and then Add all those listed?
16:06<Samu>any parameters?
16:06-!-Pereba [~UserNick@177.98.113.27] has joined #openttd
16:06<frosch123>no
16:06<Samu>ok
16:06<Superuser>I wish there was a newgrf that made ottd scoring actually decent
16:06<Superuser>it's the only weak part of the game
16:06<frosch123>Superuser: it's called a "game script"
16:06<Superuser>explain
16:06<frosch123>google yourself
16:07<Samu>what about sea level?
16:07<Samu>how much?
16:07<Superuser>give me an example of a good one that e.g. makes buses actually useful, doesn't make anyone with airplanes instantly win (servers turning off that functionality is NOT a solution)
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16:09<frosch123>win with airplanes instantly?
16:09<frosch123>just enable infra maintenance
16:09<frosch123>increase the base cost, watch them bankrupt
16:09-!-montalvo [~montalvo@host-92-24-25-152.ppp.as43234.net] has joined #openttd
16:09<frosch123>it's very easy to make aircraft unviable
16:10<Superuser>aircraft, sure
16:10<Superuser>but the fact is that by default, buses are not just unviable, they mean you can't compete at all if you even have a bus
16:11<Superuser>due to the way scoring works in the game, you need a minimum income and buses do not deliver that
16:11<Samu>make terrain super rough
16:11<Samu>mountainous
16:11<frosch123>maybe that's the idea of the score :)
16:11<Samu>town very hostil
16:11<frosch123>the score creator hated busses
16:11<Samu>and generate map with trees enabled
16:12<Samu>town noise enable
16:12<andythenorth>Supercheese: scoring? wtf is that?
16:13<frosch123>Superuser: anyway, original score is meant to be played with inflation
16:14<Supercheese>??
16:14<Supercheese>oh tabcomplete
16:14<andythenorth>sorry :P
16:14<frosch123>you achieve the minimum income score by reaching 2050 and not making a loss
16:15<frosch123>but who plays with the original score anyway?
16:15<Samu>the bowl?
16:15<Samu>it should scale somehow
16:16<frosch123>don't try to solve the wrong problem :)
16:16<Samu>map is still generating
16:16<frosch123>give gs control over the highscore and enjoy the variety of solutions
16:17<Superuser>hmm... so are you suggesting that the standard scoring system is uncommon? FYI, I only plan on private servers with a select group of friends so I'm unaware of mods
16:17<Superuser>if that's thet case, what would you suggest
16:18<frosch123>no idea, i am unable to take competitive gaming serious in ottd
16:18<frosch123>use a game script and add your own scoring
16:19<Samu>map generated
16:19<frosch123>the default scoring is only for people who do not know the game
16:19<Samu>took 10m06s cpu time
16:19<andythenorth>what is the scoring system?
16:19<andythenorth>there’s a scoring system?
16:19<frosch123>but that is likely the case for every type of scoring
16:20<frosch123>andythenorth: it's a challenge. people try to design scoring systems hoping that other people are not clever enough to cheat it
16:20<Superuser>openttd is a serious game
16:20<frosch123>maybe the solution is in using random scoring
16:20<Superuser>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serious_game
16:20<frosch123>cheating random can be hard
16:20<Samu>it did generate industries
16:20<Superuser>serious games need serious scoring
16:20<Samu>you were saying it would not
16:21<frosch123>only 10 minutes?
16:21<Samu>yea
16:21<frosch123>i would have expected it to be way longer
16:21<andythenorth>we do take the game very seriously
16:21<andythenorth>very seriously indeed
16:21<Samu>should generate faster on intel cpus though
16:21<SylvieLorxu>Haha, these airplanes, just flying around because they can't land, so funny
16:22<SylvieLorxu>Err, yeah, seriously
16:22<andythenorth>the game is definitely not just a glorified trainset
16:22<frosch123>SylvieLorxu: usually people fly around because they enjoy flying, not because they cannot land
16:22<frosch123>but "superman's inability to land" is an interesting twist
16:23<NGC982>Bah.
16:23<NGC982>I still haven't resolved this "Your computer took too long" issue.
16:23<NGC982>"Your computer is too slow"
16:23<NGC982>*
16:23<Samu>what's your internet speed?
16:24<Xaroth|Work>have you tried turning it off and on again?
16:24<NGC982>Samu: WAN is gigabit, Wifi is n-based.
16:24<NGC982>Xaroth|Work: Yes.
16:24<Samu>it goes by the speed of the slowest
16:25<NGC982>Wifi.
16:26<NGC982>There is something with the wifi that is not correct.
16:26<NGC982>But i cannot isolate it.
16:26<Samu>oh, speaking of which
16:26<NGC982>For some reason, this happend after i upgraded from Windows 7 to 8.
16:27<Samu>that's mine - http://i.imgur.com/ujuvSZh.png
16:27<NGC982>Ok.
16:27<NGC982>Let's see if i can analyse the wifi in the e3000.
16:28<Samu>internet is 30 Mbps, Wi-Fi is 300 Mbps, but it's averaging ~20 only :(
16:28<Xaroth|Work>rated connection and actual speeds are two different figures
16:28<Samu>i dont have windows 8, can't help there
16:29<Wolf01>'night
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16:32<NGC982>The router tells me it's at 100%.
16:32<NGC982>The router tells me it's at 100% signal quality to the MAC address.*
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16:35<Samu>tp-link?
16:36<Samu>I didn't like the program, it was always losing focus on what I was doing
16:36<Samu>uninstalled it, only kept the drivers
16:36<Samu>bloatware... i hate it
16:37<NGC982>By web download, the wifi manages 4-6Mb/s download speed.
16:38<Samu>megabit?
16:38<Samu>impressive!
16:38<NGC982>It's not, since OpenTTD does not manage to.
16:39<Samu>megabyte or megabit?
16:39<NGC982>Megabits.
16:39<NGC982>Mb.
16:39<Samu>that's still enough imo
16:39<Samu>I was on a 128 kbps a few months ago
16:39<NGC982>Yes, that should not be an issue
16:39<Samu>could only join small maps
16:40<NGC982>The issue is that OpenTTD does not utilize it, for some reason
16:40<Samu>large maps was always kicking me off in the middle of join
16:41<NGC982>I hate everything right now. Imgur refuses to upload my screenshot.
16:41<Samu>format c:, reinstall
16:41<Samu>windows 7 in this case
16:42<Samu>do you have more than 1 network adapter?
16:42<Samu>maybe it's using the wrong one
16:42-!-SylvieLorxu [~sylvie@dslb-178-001-036-028.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:42<NGC982>One router, one wifi adapter per laptop.
16:42<Samu>like, ethernet vs wireless?
16:43<Samu>then I dunno
16:43<Samu>do you know how to rach network settings on windows 8?
16:43<Samu>reach
16:43<Samu>tell it to create the network map
16:44<Samu>or tell it to solve connectivity issues
16:45<NGC982>http://i.imgur.com/s2G0BGn.jpg
16:45<NGC982>There we go
16:46<NGC982>The first bit is a file downloaded via http.
16:46<NGC982>The second small bit is connecting to a OpenTTD server.
16:47<Samu>hmm, can you reach this: http://www.gocomputertraining.com/images/network-and-internet-sharing-center-window.jpg
16:47<NGC982>Yes.
16:47<Samu>ok, click the last one
16:47<Samu>troubleshoting problems
16:48<Samu>then internet connection
16:48<Samu>and hope for the best
16:48<NGC982>That never works.
16:48<NGC982>And it did not work now.
16:48<NGC982>Thanks for the tip, tho. :-)
16:48<Samu>what about the windows firewall?
16:48<Samu>is it allowing openttd.exe?
16:49<Samu>or the router firewall settings
16:49<NGC982>The router allows it
16:49<NGC982>Ill take a look in the Windows firewall.
16:49<__ln___>*I'll, *look at
16:50<__ln___>you're welcome
16:50<NGC982>Stäng näbben.
16:50<NGC982>;-)
16:51<Samu>what
16:51<Samu>C:\program files\openttd\openttd.exe for me
16:51-!-Superuser [~superuser@2a02:e00:fffe:fbee::b5a2:2197] has quit [Quit: El Psy Congroo]
16:52<Samu>select domestic and public, since I have no idea which one is trouble
16:52-!-Superuser [~superuser@2a02:e00:fffe:fbee::b5a2:2197] has joined #openttd
16:52<Samu>home/work, sorry
16:54<Samu>this is where you need to reach: http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=windows+7+firewall&FORM=HDRSC2#view=detail&id=0C45D27BB7FD102210F47CAB87F76BCB1D3A0E85&selectedIndex=10
16:54<Samu>oops, http://www.intelliadmin.com/images/Windows%207%20Firewall%20Settings.jpg
16:54<Samu>OpenTTD should be listed there, and allowed on the boxes
16:57*Xaroth|Work shudders
16:57<Xaroth|Work>the fact you used bing cost you cool points
16:57<Xaroth|Work>like, seriously
16:57<Xaroth|Work>lots of cool points
16:58<Superuser>^
16:58<Samu>it comes with IE11
16:58<Samu>can't be bother to change it
16:58<Xaroth|Work>the fact you used IE11 cost you cool points
16:58<Xaroth|Work>like, seriously
16:58<Xaroth|Work>lots of cool points
16:59<ST2>saw that coming ^^ (any IE = the perfect browser to download any other :P)
16:59<Samu>this IRC is a webchat too, running on IE
17:00<Samu>https://webchat.oftc.net//?nick=Samu&channels=OpenTTD&uio=MT11bmRlZmluZWQb1
17:00<LordAro>ew
17:00<Xaroth|Work>next you'll be telling me you're running your server as root :|
17:00<frosch123>given that the number of bugs always grows with the square of the version number... maybe ie11 is not that bad compared to other browsers :p
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17:01<Xaroth|Work>frosch123: I had always suspected it to be more of a sine wave
17:01<frosch123>no, sine waves are used to determine whether a programming language shall assign a meaning to $ @ # and stuff
17:02<Xaroth|Work>AH, right
17:03<frosch123>http://www.xkcd.com/1306/ <- found it
17:03<Xaroth|Work>damn, you were faster :P
17:04<Samu>IE is based on Mozilla isn't it?
17:04<Xaroth|Work>lol no
17:04<Taede>o_O
17:04<andythenorth>where is jquery in that curve?
17:04<frosch123>though i recently relearned that in basic stuff ends with $ instead of starting with it
17:05<frosch123>i wonder what's the curve for shift+3 crashing a program
17:05<Xaroth|Work>gheh
17:06<frosch123>shift+3 = § = control code with dos codepage = trouble
17:07<Samu>some websites tells me I'm running IE / Mozilla, how do they detect it?
17:07<Samu>or why they say Mozilla?
17:07<frosch123>lol, ie still says mozilla?
17:07<Xaroth|Work>browsers send a user-agent header with each reques
17:07<Xaroth|Work>so servers know what they are talking to
17:07<frosch123>Samu: mozilla was the name of the first popular web browser
17:07<frosch123>ms did not get that it was a product name, and copied it
17:08<frosch123>thinking it was part of the protocol or something
17:09<Samu>so this ain't a firefox clone?
17:09<frosch123>try 20 years earlier
17:09<Samu>doesn't matter, it works fine for me
17:09<Rubidium>it's merely saying "compatible with mozilla rendering engine 5.0"
17:09<Rubidium>well, or some other mozilla rendering engine that's slightly older
17:09<frosch123>hmm, though firefox is also quite old meanwhile...
17:10<Rubidium> http://www.useragentstring.com/Internet%20Explorer10.0_id_18328.php <- spot the oddity in there ;)
17:10<NGC982>It has resolved itself.
17:10<NGC982>Gosh darn HP drivers.
17:11<Samu>HP drivers?
17:11<frosch123>ah, firefox is already 10
17:11<Xaroth|Work>it's about time that browsers cut down on the crap in the user agent string
17:11<Samu>your printer?
17:11<Rubidium>Xaroth|Work: it's only going to get worse :(
17:12<Rubidium>and occasionally it's just spoofed anyhow
17:12<Samu>a wireless printer or something? what was it?
17:12<Xaroth|Work>yeh, but it could actually be 'useful' :P
17:12<Rubidium>http://www.useragentstring.com/Internet%20Explorer9.0_id_16333.php <- looks spoofed to me ;)
17:14<frosch123>they tell the server about the security settings?
17:14<frosch123>is that useful for advertising?
17:15<frosch123>this user used no security -> offer some spam ware
17:15<frosch123>this user used max security -> offer bloat virus scanner
17:16<frosch123>Rubidium: does the typo in WIndows NT have a meaning?
17:16<NGC982>Samu: Yes, when upgrading to Window 8, the Windows Update downloaded it's own version of the original HP (Windows 7) driver for the laptop.
17:16<Samu>http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ie/hh869301(v=vs.85).aspx#ie11
17:16<Rubidium>frosch123: well that, and the NT 9.0 tells me it's a spoofed one
17:16<NGC982>Samu: Uninstalling it and installing it directly from HP resolved my OpenTTD issue.
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17:19<Samu>just install the driver, HP software is really bloatware, honestly
17:20<Samu>so uneccessary
17:20<Samu>if they should ship a blu-ray with their printer, I bet they would
17:26<frosch123>printers? blu-ray? physical media?
17:26<frosch123>what century are you living in?
17:27<Samu>:( the "driver" is not 40 GB
17:27<Samu>be happy
17:27<peter1139>I like physical media...
17:28<peter1139>For music anyway. I'm not much of a film watcher.
17:29<Samu>one day, file storage will be a thing from the past
17:29<Samu>it's stored on some random server HDD, not on your computer
17:29<Xaroth|Work>HDD?
17:29<Xaroth|Work>what century are you living in?
17:29<Samu>servers use HDDs or not?
17:30<Xaroth|Work>HDDs are -so- 2012
17:30<Samu>those cloud things
17:30<Xaroth|Work>all dem giddy moving parts, they break and stuffs
17:31<Samu>western digital released a 5 TB HDD
17:31<__ln___>the worst part is that HDDs do not have a touch screen
17:31<Samu>this year
17:31<Xaroth|Work>Samu: 6TB disks have been released as well
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17:31<Samu>t.t
17:31<Xaroth|Work>but what's more interesting, are the 1TB SSDs.
17:31<peter1139>That's a lot of data to lose when it dies.
17:32<Xaroth|Work>peter1139: that's what raid is for!
17:32<peter1139>O_o
17:32<Samu>HP however is building some storage device
17:32<Samu>can store petabytes of stuff
17:32<frosch123>oh, a "device" :)
17:32<frosch123>magics!
17:32<Xaroth|Work>'device', mhm
17:32<Samu>brb let me search that
17:32<Xaroth|Work>seriously though, with 4TB disks, PB-sized devices are already obtainable
17:33<peter1139>Not sure what the general proportion of SSD or HDD on servers is at the moment.
17:33<frosch123>maybe it's powered with the souls of dead printers?
17:33<Xaroth|Work>you just need a bunch of sas expanders :|
17:33<peter1139>I know that there isn't a single SSD where I work.
17:33<Xaroth|Work>peter1139: at this point, mostly HDD, but SSDs are in the uprise
17:33<Xaroth|Work>lots of vendors are moving to 'flash-accelerated' storage
17:33<peter1139>Server SSDs are also way more expensive than consumer SSDs.
17:33<Xaroth|Work>where you use a bunch of slowass HDDs, and have a 'smarty system' that caches the frequently used stuff on SSD
17:34<Xaroth|Work>(or simply put L2arc on ZFS...)
17:34<Xaroth|Work>but database storage systems tend to favour SSDs these days
17:35<peter1139>heh, 800GB for £700
17:35<peter1139>Not too bad now.
17:35<Xaroth|Work>nope
17:35<peter1139>Wonder what the write lifetime is on these things though.
17:35<peter1139>I get the impression servers are made to last a couple of years max.
17:36<Xaroth|Work>ask 20 IT guys, they'll give you 40 different answers to that :P
17:36<peter1139>My servers last over a decade.
17:36<Xaroth|Work>realisticly, in most cases it's "long enough"
17:37<peter1139>"Secure business information with hard drive RAID to make copies of data automatically."
17:37<peter1139>o_O
17:38<Xaroth|Work>wait what
17:39<Xaroth|Work>that's probably the same idiot that makes people think that snapshots are by default valid backup sollutions
17:39<Rubidium>they are...
17:39<Rubidium>just use a polaroid and make a snapshot every hour
17:39<Xaroth|Work>mhm
17:39<Samu>can't find it
17:40<Xaroth|Work>Samu: a storage system with a few SAS expanders can easily go >1PB
17:40<Samu>it's about some discovery for HDDs, they can make it very dense
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17:40<Rubidium>anyhow... backups are only for competent sysadmins
17:40<Samu>they were estimating petabytes in a similar 3.5'
17:40<Samu>enclosure
17:40<frosch123>Rubidium: what's that?
17:41<Rubidium>frosch123: exactly ;)
17:42<Samu>one day in the very distant future
17:43<Samu>our own body will be used to store data
17:43<Xaroth|Work>wait what
17:43<Xaroth|Work>what century do you live in?
17:43<frosch123>you still have hope for a brain?
17:43<Rubidium>your body is way to inefficient to store data
17:44<Samu>things tend to become smaller
17:44<Samu>just inject a "workstation" into your body
17:44<Xaroth|Work>are we still talking abotu said 'brain' ?
17:44<Samu>and go on with your life
17:44<Samu>yeh
17:44<Samu>lol
17:44<Xaroth|Work>ah, right
17:45<Samu>but really, that's what I think of the future
17:45<Samu>instead of a peacemaker, it's a workstation, somewhere inside your body
17:46<Xaroth|Work>you should check out shadowrun, tbqfh
17:46<Samu>what is it?
17:46<frosch123>yeah, women will implant workstations into their hands
17:46<frosch123>so they never get cold
17:46<frosch123>men will be useless
17:47<Samu>"you become the cloud"
17:47<Samu>or part of it
17:48<frosch123>ah yeah, the body is mostly water
17:48<frosch123>i guess that is a good start to become a cloud
17:48<Eddi|zuHause>but a cloud is mostly not-water?
17:48<Samu>as long as you live, the servers will never run out of power
17:48<Samu>damn, im dreaming too much
17:49<frosch123>ah, you mean, to loose weight you just need to implant more servers?
17:49<frosch123>burgerking will be the main datacenter?
17:49<Eddi|zuHause>but the human body only produces like 300W power
17:50<frosch123>notebooks run with 12w or something?
17:50<Eddi|zuHause>my PSU can do 600W
17:52<Samu>the new talk is wearable electronics
17:53<Samu>what comes next is implanted electronics I bet
17:53<frosch123>yeah, it's cheaper than plastics surgery
17:53<Eddi|zuHause>human (hourly) power is about half a horsepower
17:53<Eddi|zuHause>the permanent power is somewhat lower
17:54<frosch123>Samu: btw. implanted electronics is not new
17:54<Samu>after implanted electronics, it's injected electronics :p lol
17:54<Eddi|zuHause>(permanent power is things like heartbeat and keeping body temperature)
17:55<frosch123>start with pacemakers, continue with modern hearing aid devices, ...
17:55<Eddi|zuHause>(i think it's in the order of 160W)
17:56<frosch123>Samu: yeah, dogs already have injected electronics to identify them
17:56<Samu>:(
17:56<frosch123>some jail in some police state will likely also have them already
17:56<frosch123>maybe you have been shot with an rfid chip somewhen?
17:56<Eddi|zuHause>with "police state" you mean USA?
17:57<frosch123>Samu: injected stuff is bollocks, you cannot remove/replace that stuff in a meaningful way
17:57<frosch123>so you would only do that if it shall not be removed ever, resp. is not worth replacement/removal
17:58<Samu>or if it's not on humans, it's on rats or some other kind of specie
17:58<Samu>but I see
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>we briefly considered a chip for our cats so the cat door will only open for them and not other cats
17:59<Samu>not practical
17:59<Eddi|zuHause>but they kept dragging in mice and birds, so we permanently closed the door from the outside
18:02<Samu>ah, I read what Shadowrun is
18:02<Samu>a mmorg
18:02<Samu>not that kind of story
18:03<Samu>I was imagining the body being used to feed power to the whole "workstation"
18:03<frosch123>shadowrun is the classic german pen-and-paper-roleplaying game in a cyberpunk world
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18:03<frosch123>oh, it's not german :p
18:03<Samu>it won't change your body
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18:04<Samu>http://www.shadowrun.com/
18:06<frosch123>yeah, i think the computer game is based on that
18:06<frosch123>at least the same people are involved :p
18:07<frosch123>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadowrun
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18:10<Samu>... and after injected workstations, the very wind force will be sufficient to power atomic-sized "workstations", they can literally fly
18:11<Samu>hmm... ok im gonna shut up
18:26<frosch123>night
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19:10<LordAro>gah, i've made gdb error
19:10<LordAro>*again*
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