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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-05-04

---Logopened Sun May 04 00:00:15 2014
---Daychanged Sun May 04 2014
00:00<Airwave>By the way, this is not a problem I'm dealing with now, but it's something I'm wondering nonetheless: If I accidentally bring e.g. a mail car to a station and it starts piling up mail as a result, is there any way to make it stop?
00:00-!-Djohaal [~Djohaal@189.58.17.23.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:00<Flygon>No
00:00<Airwave>Ok.
00:00<Flygon>And yes
00:01<Flygon>That annoys me to no end too
00:02<Airwave>Yeah.
00:03<Airwave>Well, I'm off to bed I think. Thanks again for the help. It's really much more efficient now.
00:05<Flygon>Sleep well
00:05<Flygon>And, don't worry
00:05<Flygon>Yoou figure it out after 7 years
00:05<Airwave>Hehe
00:06<Airwave>Night.
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02:52<andythenorth>daylength
02:52*andythenorth would like RL daylength
02:52<V453000>nightlength
02:53<andythenorth>variable between faster and slower
02:53<V453000>yes would be cool
02:53<andythenorth>I believe it can be achieved pharmaceutically
02:53<andythenorth>possibly with side effects :(
02:53<andythenorth>a crack habit is a bit of a commitment
02:54<V453000>:D
02:54<andythenorth>also a crack-based daylength patch is incompatible with children
02:54<andythenorth>also employment
02:54<andythenorth>hmm
02:54<andythenorth>gives me an idea though
02:54-!-Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd
02:54-!-mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ
02:55<andythenorth>all those players who want daylength in openttd - why don’t they just do ketamine or amphetamine, as appropriate?
02:55<andythenorth>simply adjust the player, instead of adjusting the game
02:55<@Alberth>I mostly wonder why nobody makes a newgrf that fixes the problem :)
02:55<@Alberth>hi hi btw
02:56<V453000>I mainly wonder why they need more than 200 years of gameplay if they generally play for like 2 hours anywau
02:56<andythenorth>I guess these players would argue that taking halucegenic drugs was unrealistic :(
02:56<@Alberth>too obsessed with real-life history, I guess
02:56<andythenorth>they would probably make charts and shit to prove it
02:57*andythenorth proposes a new option… “Time progression: random"
02:57<andythenorth>there is no particular known reason in physics why time goes forward
02:57<andythenorth>just seems to be a convention
02:57<@Alberth>"none" is easier, just don't display the date :p
02:57<andythenorth>Alberth: +1
02:57<andythenorth>there are no nights, and no real seasons
02:57<andythenorth>so why bother with dates?
02:57<V453000>charts and shit made my day andythenorth :D
02:58<@Alberth>and it's only 9am :D
02:58<andythenorth>“I took drugs and I saw things that are *not* described in the trains section of wikipedia. UNREALISTIC”
02:58<V453000>(:
02:58<V453000>LOL
02:59<V453000>starting to model power plant (:
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03:00*andythenorth proposes drug-therapy problem for the train nerds, it does help in life generally when you learn how easily what you see and think can be distorted
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03:00<V453000>:D
03:00-!-Samu [~oftc-webi@po2-84-90-120-62.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd
03:00<Samu>hi
03:00<andythenorth>is today ‘open refactor_this.less’ and start actual work? Or is today something else?
03:01<andythenorth>on the plus side, I’d like to get it done. On the negative side, nobody ever welcomes that job
03:01<@Alberth>it may also be sunday, or sun day
03:01<V453000>:d
03:01<andythenorth>yes but I have childcare
03:01<andythenorth>so I can do actual work
03:01<V453000>could be yeti or yeti
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03:01<andythenorth>I only do actual work about 3 days per month
03:01<V453000>:d
03:01<@Alberth>:o
03:02<andythenorth>the rest of the time I am in an office, where I sign things and read paperwork and stuff
03:02<andythenorth>or nap
03:02<andythenorth>or I’m ‘entertaining' my children
03:02<@Alberth>busy andy :)
03:03<andythenorth>after a hard morning of redmine ticket admin, a nap is just the thing
03:03<V453000>well for the last few weeks I have nothing to do at work either so I just model yeti
03:03<V453000>(:
03:03<andythenorth>bodes well for European GDP :P
03:04<andythenorth>I could animate something in FIRS
03:05<@Alberth>a yeti guest appearance?
03:05<andythenorth>hide it in a mine
03:06<@Alberth>although they should appear from an ufo, of course
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03:32<supermop>apparently there are no decent australian wool mills that I can find
03:32<supermop>want to buy a nice woven blanket and seems my best bet is pendleton
03:33<supermop>for some reason i though wool was a big industry here
03:33<supermop>i guess i should look for a bauxite blanket
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03:33<Samu>problem: i can't change freight weight during multiplayer, but I can in single player. is there a reason for that?
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03:36<Flygon>Didn'tcha hear supermop? We outsourced that to China
03:36<Flygon>More seriously now
03:37<Flygon>The Wool Industry was gigantic here
03:37<@Alberth>Samu: yep, preventing desyncs
03:37<Flygon>But changed around the 80s-90s
03:37<Samu>aww
03:38<@planetmaker>moin moin
03:39<@Alberth>hi hi pm
03:39<Flygon>Menta
03:39<peter1139>Alberth, if clients == 0 ...
03:39<peter1139>SEND EVERYTHING TO A DEPOT
03:40<@Alberth>perhaps, but your patch was obviously not included, as Samu then would not have a problem
03:41<peter1139>:D :D
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03:49<Phreeze>yop
03:52*Alberth waves
03:52<Phreeze>glad my gf bought that "energy water"
03:53<Phreeze>it's nice after 5 pints of cider...
03:53<Flygon>So basically water mixed with sugar
03:54<pthagnar>caffeine too, probably
03:55<Phreeze>no caff, but sugar and added vitamines
03:55<Phreeze>and much spacy shit
03:55<Phreeze>E340ii
03:55<Phreeze>E414, E445
03:55<Phreeze>etc
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03:55<Phreeze>and OMG NaCl ! :D
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03:56<@planetmaker>we will all die!
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03:57<Samu_>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NaCl
03:58<@planetmaker>I think everyone knows what NaCl is...
04:00<@planetmaker>Phreeze, does it also contain di-hydrogen monoxide? Allegedly one of the deadliest substances ever
04:00<Rubidium>planetmaker: since not everyone knows about dihydrogen monoxide (DHMO)... I doubt the NaCl is known by everyone
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04:03<Phreeze>still have that "right move" mousebug
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04:03<Rubidium>and don't forget that they often forget the mention hydroxide and hydronium ;)
04:03<Phreeze>when i move the view with the right mouse button, it often accelerates like hell
04:05<Samu_>try with another mouse
04:05<Samu_>i don't seem to have a problem
04:10<andythenorth>isn’t DHMO rebranded ‘Aqua’ ?
04:10<Phreeze>it worked well before 1.4.0
04:10<Phreeze>the mouse is pretty new
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04:13<Samu_>could be new but with defective
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04:14<Phreeze>...
04:15<Phreeze>i'm experienced enough to say it's NOT the mouse, i play lots of other games etc. ;)
04:15<Samu_>im scrolling with right click button pressed down, i dont seem to have a problem
04:15<Samu_>maybe you're talking about sensitivity?
04:15<V453000>guys are you aware that if you actually play the game, you have less time for pointless talk about (to your opinion missing) features?
04:15<Phreeze>it's not always, but sometimes
04:15<Phreeze>i am playing V ;)
04:16<V453000>clearly not enough
04:17<andythenorth>V453000: I disagree 100%
04:17<Samu_>i am playing
04:17<andythenorth>whenever I play the game….more talk
04:17<V453000>:D
04:17<V453000>yes andy but you know what you are talking about
04:17<Samu_>there's barely any chat in game
04:18<Samu_>what would I do then? watch my ships move around?
04:18<V453000>build more trains?
04:18<Phreeze>with no money ?
04:18<Phreeze>i just started on btpro ;)
04:19<Samu_>im on btpro K13 i think
04:19<V453000>well that explains everything
04:20<Samu_>how?
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04:25<Phreeze>he's talking trash ;)
04:26<Samu_>http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_xp-desktop/how-to-increase-minimum-drag-distance/9816365c-049a-4eb9-a5fa-5126ec6781a2?msgId=595cf2cc-0b13-41bf-88a9-4268f69fdd2c
04:26<@Alberth>no, V plays co-operative games, where there is lots of discussion
04:27<@planetmaker>yeah. V is usually pretty chatty on the coop servers :)
04:27<@planetmaker>as are the other guys (and gals?) there
04:27<andythenorth>ho
04:27<@planetmaker>hi
04:27<V453000>because there is stuff to discuss when someone plays the game properly :P
04:27<andythenorth>there’s a whole world of stuff out there I didn’t know about
04:27<@planetmaker>world of stuff?!
04:27*andythenorth just found a totally new set of FIRS discussions
04:27<Samu_>cops servers use those weird vehicles, i dont like it
04:28<@planetmaker>andythenorth, where? :)
04:28<andythenorth>btpro
04:28<@planetmaker>ho
04:28<andythenorth>http://openttd.btpro.nl/index.php?option=com_kunena&view=category&catid=28&Itemid=604
04:28<V453000>weird vehicles =D I win 100 points
04:28<Phreeze>how can it be that a fruit plantagen says "78% transported" while 4 trains are waiting for ages !?
04:29<@Alberth>trains too long?
04:29<@planetmaker>station rating, Phreeze ?
04:29<Phreeze>it's pretty new...but still
04:30<Phreeze>100% are loaded, so it should show 100%
04:30<Phreeze>not 78%
04:30<V453000>station rating.
04:30<Samu_>put another separate station and load from both
04:31<Phreeze>i dont want that
04:32<Samu_>buy a statue
04:32<Phreeze>it's a fruit farm ;)
04:32<@Alberth>Samu_: so there is chat about the game, it just got moved to #openttd :)
04:32<V453000>just face it that you cant get more out of it and connect another fruit plantation?
04:32<Phreeze>join server 14 bt pro, desert 4000 pop goal
04:33<Samu_>i'm on 13
04:33<Phreeze>it's 1 station with 4 trains that serves 2 plantations
04:33<Samu_>the only real server for ships
04:33<Samu_>but then they only limit it to 20... how dumb
04:33<@planetmaker>I wonder whether they run (also) patched servers. Additionally to offering patched clients
04:33<@planetmaker>though the client supposedly only contains client-side patches
04:34<Samu_>let me see
04:34<Samu_>oops, K3, not 13
04:37<V453000>I knew people on btpro are bad, but that they cant read numbers I didnt know :P
04:38<@planetmaker>http://openttd.btpro.nl/index.php?option=com_kunena&view=home&defaultmenu=606&Itemid=604 <-- V453000 with all those numbers I'd constantly get it wrong, too
04:38<V453000>:D what the fuck is that
04:38<@planetmaker>their client... with quick-click to their individual servers
04:38<V453000>right I see
04:39<V453000>not yeti enough
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04:43<andythenorth>Phreeze: use a piglet
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04:46<Phreeze>a what ?
04:47<Samu_>Phreeze: http://wiki.openttd.org/Station_Ratings#Station_rating
04:51<V453000>power plant should obviously produce batteries.
04:51<andythenorth>hmm
04:52<andythenorth>can I be arsed to read the tram drawing code?
04:52<andythenorth>the offsets look to be different
04:52<V453000>nope
04:52<@planetmaker>in yeti it definitely does. In toyland it well could. though maybe rather use batteries?
04:52<V453000>no it uses coal and fills batteries with energy =D
04:52<V453000>or uranium, yeah
04:52<@planetmaker>oil
04:52<@planetmaker>wind
04:52<@planetmaker>wind energy gets a new meaning then
04:52<V453000>oil is elsewhere already :)
04:53<@planetmaker>would well suit yeti. wind power plant: gather wind, provide batteries :)
04:53<@planetmaker>primary industry thus
04:53<@planetmaker>maybe uses workers which need to provide the wind :D
04:53<@planetmaker>thus you could feed them beans :DD
04:53<Rubidium>the creation of simple throw away batteries does not require electricity. It's just packaging some metals and chemicals together
04:54<V453000>Rubidium: that is exactly why human technogoly isnt nearly as advanced as yeti technology
04:54<@planetmaker>how realistic :(
04:54<Rubidium>so *if* the power plant creates batteries, it should get the raw ingredients for them... or just depleted rechargeable batteries from somewhere else
04:55<V453000>k I give it uranium
04:55<Rubidium>I doubt that stores many electrons
04:55<@planetmaker>92 per atom :P
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04:55<V453000>I charge them batteries at the plant
04:55<V453000>eazy
04:56<Rubidium>planetmaker: and how many of them can you rip easily?
04:56<V453000>93
04:56<@planetmaker>one, I think
04:56<@planetmaker>hm... no, 6
04:56<@planetmaker>there's UF6
04:56<@planetmaker>usued in the actual enrichment process
04:56<Rubidium>so... in effect, for battery purposes it stores 1 and needs 92 to "operate"
04:57<@planetmaker>and the F definitely 'accepts' the electrons. No better material to gnaw at electrons than F
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05:03<Phreeze>is this the chemistry channel ? :D
05:05<@planetmaker>it's on-topic. It needs discussion in the light of which cargoes go in and out! ;)
05:06<Samu_>there's still servers that are using Original instead of YAPF for ships :(
05:06<@planetmaker>yeah, they didn't adjust their cfg
05:06<Samu_>YAPF is much smarter, albeit annoying with ship is lost when they're not, I can just turn it off
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05:07<Samu_>why does it think it's lost when it's going in the right direction everytime (almost)
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05:09<Phreeze>time to order pizza
05:12<Phreeze>hm not
05:12<Phreeze>11h10..not open yet
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05:15<Taede>mornin
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05:18<@planetmaker>o/
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05:56<@planetmaker>hm, I broke setup.py
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06:15<Eddi|zuHause><V453000> yes andy but you know what you are talking about <-- that is the best joke i heard today :p
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06:28<Samu_>my server today isn't being successful :(
06:29<Samu_>http://www.openttd.org/en/server/80714
06:29<Samu_>1 client, well, not really, I'm server
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06:30<Rubidium>still, more than average amount of users
06:31<Rubidium>it's even in the top 25 percentile of number of clients
06:31<Samu_>it is counting me as client, not server
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06:33<@planetmaker>for non-dedicated servers that makes sense
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06:34<Phreeze>i never play multiplayer other than btpro
06:34<Phreeze>or nice
06:34<Phreeze>especially NOT ith stupid AI
06:35<Samu_>yesterday i had other settings
06:35<@planetmaker>ais don't exactly count as multi-player ;)
06:35<Samu_>was more successful, filled up to 10 companies
06:35<Samu_>ppl enjoy aircraft too much
06:37<Samu_>I also notice I tend to be more successful the small the map is
06:37<Phreeze>small maps are cool
06:37<Phreeze>just disable stupid airplanes
06:37<Phreeze>i dont like playing much with aircrafts, the income is ridiculous
06:38<Rubidium>because the aircraft income is unrealisticly high?
06:38<@planetmaker>I'd limit aircraft to ~10 or so. Good to get quick some starting money. But too few to spam the map with it
06:38<Rubidium>after all, cheapest airline ticket costs less than the cheapest train ticket between Amsterdam and Berlin
06:40<Rubidium>although airline pricing remains odd at best
06:40<Samu_>about the topic of balance, town noise helps great against it, combined with slow growth
06:41<Samu_>also town permissions
06:41<@planetmaker>Alberth, do you have a clue? On top of nml-py3, applying https://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3294/ my setup.py fails, but I don't exactly understand what it complains about: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3295/
06:41<Samu_>and trees
06:41<Rubidium>e.g. the cheapest ticket on 29-05 from Amsterdam to Paris via Copenhagen, London and Birmingham are up to more than 3 times cheaper than the direct flight
06:41<Phreeze>hm those city grwoth scripts suck with the mail-setting
06:41<Rubidium>s/and/or/
06:41<Phreeze>too much mail required, even big cities don't produce enough compared to passenger
06:42<@planetmaker>as it seems to follow exactly what is described in the docs, e.g. at http://pythonhosted.org/setuptools/setuptools.html#automatic-script-creation
06:42<Samu_>planting trees shouldn't be drag and drop in my opinion
06:43<@planetmaker>then limit allowed tree placement
06:43<Samu_>it would slow down planting airports
06:43<Samu_>how do i do that?
06:43<@planetmaker>check openttd.cfg for settings with 'tree'
06:43<Samu_>wow
06:43<@planetmaker>similar to bulldozer and landscaping limits
06:43<Samu_>that settings is a blessing
06:44<Phreeze>is it wise to just demolish ponds in town ?
06:44<Phreeze>they only accept 2/8 passenger
06:45<Phreeze>in fact, talking about fountains
06:49<Samu_>tree_per_64k_frames = 4194304
06:50<Samu_>is it this?
06:51<@Alberth>planetmaker: .items() suggests it is supposed to be a dictionary instead of a list, the question is what list is it talking about
06:51<@planetmaker>probably the entry_points one
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06:54<@Alberth>I think the "options" one, if you look at the setup.py file http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3296/
06:54<Samu_>how long is a frame burst mentioned here
06:55<Samu_>tree_frame_burst = 4096 ; tree_per_64k_frames = 4194304
06:55<@planetmaker>Alberth, but the line number it complains about is with entry_points
06:56<Samu_>i'd like to limit to about 5 trees per second
06:56<@planetmaker>and the error vanishes also if I comment those out
06:56<Rubidium>Samu_: https://wiki.openttd.org/?search=burst&go=Go&title=Special%3ASearch
06:56<Samu_>ok, tx
06:57<Rubidium>clear and tree are equivalent in behaviour, except one is for clearing tiles and the other for planting trees
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07:00<Samu_>how long is a frame burst, can't find that
07:01<Rubidium>it's not a time, it's an amount
07:02<Samu_>ah, so tree_frame_burst = 5 ; tree_per_64k_frames = 4194304 will do what I want
07:02<Rubidium>imagine a bucket; the size is frame burst and water flows in at speed of X per_64k_frames.
07:03<Phreeze>there should be an option to resize the font of the map-fonts
07:03<Rubidium>every built tree removes 1 from the bucket
07:03<Phreeze>it's some pixels...nearly can't read it
07:03<Rubidium>and the bucket overflows when it's full
07:03<@Alberth>planetmaker: random guess entry_points={ 'console_scripts' : {'nmlc' : 'nml.main:run'} } ?
07:04<Rubidium>a second has about 33 frames (at normal speed)
07:05<Rubidium>so the tree_frame_burst is basically the amount of "trees" you can save up front
07:06<Samu_>I got it, 5 it is then
07:06<Rubidium>Samu_: that still means you can clear 5 tiles multiple times a second
07:07<Rubidium>you just need to be quite fast
07:08<Samu_>so i'm limited to 1x5 by drag and drop pretty much?
07:08<Rubidium>@calc 65536/33*5
07:08<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 9929.6969697
07:08<Rubidium>yes
07:08<Samu_>that fits my purposes
07:08<Rubidium>with tree_per_64k_frames at 9930 you should be able to limit it to 5 tiles per 'second'
07:09<Eddi|zuHause>Phreeze: there is. it's just hidden in the .cfg
07:09<Samu_>the bucket size is 9929?
07:10<Samu_>nevermind, its 5
07:10<Samu_>but it fills up at the big speed
07:11<Rubidium>Samu_: no, the inflow into the bucket will be 9930 per 64k frames, so 9930/65536*33 are to be added to the bucket every second
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07:15<Samu_>i wouldn't want 5 tiles per second, but a max of 5 trees per use
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07:15<@Alberth>planetmaker: it really is the "options": cmd_options = ['ply', 'pillow'] <-- when you print "cmd_options"
07:16<@planetmaker>hm... interesting
07:16<@planetmaker>thanks
07:16<@planetmaker>will toy with that more after sailing. Gotta leave now till evening hours.
07:16<@planetmaker>bye :) and thanks again
07:16<Samu_>and im still being considerate
07:16<Samu_>it should be 1 tree max per use
07:17<Samu_>lol
07:18<Samu_>what happens if I enter the value 0?
07:18<Samu_>does it accept 0?
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07:18<Eddi|zuHause>in the console you can see the valid range
07:19<Samu_>wiki says it goes from 0 to a biiiiig number
07:19<Samu_>but mentions 0 as very few
07:19<Samu_>isn't it really none?
07:19<Samu_>no trees possible to plant
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07:23<Samu_>gonna toy around with these settings, brb
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07:26<Samu_>muahahhah, i can deny terraforming!
07:26<Samu_>i always wanted to do this
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07:32<Samu_>these settings should really be set up in the advanced game settings window
07:32<Samu_>they're useful
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07:32<Rubidium>the settings itself are efficient, but explaining them isn't
07:33<Samu_>allow terraforming: yes/no
07:33<Samu_>just that
07:33<Samu_>don't need to complicate
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07:36<Samu_>or, yes/no/custom if you want to complicate a bit
07:37<Rubidium>though all settings are shown 'direct', as is. Maybe with a dropdown, but besides that it's always just one setting
07:38<Rubidium>configuring two settings 'at once', or with some conversion is not implemented
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08:25<Eddi|zuHause> <Rubidium> configuring two settings 'at once', or with some conversion is not implemented <-- i think you can add functions to settings, so changing the setting calls the function (which may then change another setting)
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08:35<Wolf01>hi hi
08:39<Eddi|zuHause>i now break everything.
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09:13<supermop>playing on some polish server
09:13<supermop>anyone want to join?
09:16<frosch123>hmm, we have no "custom industry amount" setting?
09:16<frosch123>as we have for town number and sea level
09:17<@Alberth>indeed we have not
09:17<@Alberth>you can also not change the grow rate
09:20<fonsinchen>The polish are the only ones who announce cargodist in the server list. However, they insist on that PKP set. Those trains have such slow loading times that it's insanely hard to get all the passengers transported.
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09:22<Samu_>my server is using cargo distribution
09:22<Samu_>no one joins
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09:24<fonsinchen>You don't announce it in the name
09:24<fonsinchen>I didn't find you last time I was looking
09:24<@Alberth>you use an insane vehicle set
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09:25<fonsinchen>Insane like NUTS, or insane insane?
09:25<@Alberth>insane like not NUTS
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09:39*andythenorth votes option 3
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09:53<supermop>fonsinchen: but the pkp trains are so pretty
09:53<supermop>i desynched
09:53<supermop>but i liked the little network i had going
09:54<fonsinchen>Someone should debug those desyncs
09:54<supermop>4-pointed hub and spoke
09:54<frosch123>yay for reusing dead strings \o/
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09:55<tzaeru>hai
09:57<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r26557 /trunk (8 files in 4 dirs) (2014-05-04 13:57:48 UTC)
09:57<@DorpsGek>-Fix: clean up, test (somewhat), and complete the API for waiting cargo
10:01<frosch123>hola
10:03<tzaeru>hopping from a citybuilder server to next, trying to find a fun one -.O
10:03<supermop>ok i have to go to bed someone take over my company
10:03<supermop>pw is mop
10:17<tzaeru>mh, can't yet find any citybuilder servers that used full cargodist..
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10:25<frosch123>what breaks if i allow changing of the snow line height in game?
10:28<Samu_>is there a multi-pause command that pauses all OpenTTDs currently running?
10:28<Rubidium>frosch123: global var 20?
10:28<Samu_>or a way to do it
10:29<frosch123>Rubidium: SGF_NO_NETWORK deals with that, i guess
10:29<Samu_>im trying to chrono something
10:30<Rubidium>if that's covered, then I'm not sure
10:34<frosch123>hmm, if i do not know what to put into the land generator helptext... is that a reason to remove it from gui?
10:38<Rubidium>at least to move it to the advanced settings
10:38<frosch123>that is obvious :p
10:38<frosch123>i was asking for the helptext in the adv. settings window
10:40<Rubidium>"Original gives a (blocky) landscape like Transport Tycoon, whereas Terragenisis creates more realistic (curvy) landscapes"
10:43<andythenorth>frosch123: probably newgrfs :P
10:44<andythenorth>hmm
10:44<andythenorth>where is virtualbox?
10:44*andythenorth faces a future containing IE 7
10:45<andythenorth>hmm
10:45<andythenorth>it’s not breaking, it should be
10:46<frosch123>why does ie not have exponential version numbers?
10:47<Rubidium>why would it?
10:48<andythenorth>well this is annoying
10:48<andythenorth>IE 7 isn’t supposed to understand html5 elements like nav
10:48<andythenorth>but it’s rendering them correctly
10:51<andythenorth>grr
10:51<andythenorth>one of the existing page libraries is ‘fixing’ html5
10:51<andythenorth>which is fine, but I don’t know which or how complete the fix it
10:51<andythenorth>is *
10:52<andythenorth>today this channel is brought to you by off-topic
10:52<Phreeze>ie7 lol
10:57<andythenorth>you may lol :P
10:57<andythenorth>I can’t
10:59<Samu_>land generator?
10:59<Samu_>terragenesis isn't too great for arctic
10:59<Samu_>needs a lot of tweaking
11:02<andythenorth>could be shortened to “terragenesis isn’t too great"
11:06<Samu_>farms can't grow on ice
11:06<Samu_>and forest can only grow on ice
11:06<Samu_>then there's also sea %
11:07<Samu_>not easy to find the ideal combination
11:07<Samu_>sea vs mountains
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11:08<andythenorth>you don’t really get mountains and such in terragenesis
11:08<andythenorth>it tends to build high plateaus
11:08<andythenorth>the original generator is better for arctic imho, and also for sub-tropical
11:08<Samu_>nah, sub-tropical looks alright
11:09<Samu_>it only is missing sawmulls
11:09<Samu_>but they don't spawn by themselves anyway, or do they?
11:10<V453000>you guys just cant make terra genesis output nice results
11:10<V453000>is all :P
11:10<andythenorth>V453000: maybe you are more leet
11:10<andythenorth>I honestly have never played ottd, I just have armchair opinions :P
11:10<V453000>:D
11:10<andythenorth>I didn’t spend a weekend trying to patch terragenisis to be less stupid :P
11:11<V453000>I just spent -time- to generate nice maps in terra genesis and it works just fine to me
11:11<V453000>the variety distribution is quite stupid but turning that off solves it
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11:15<V453000>Samu just obviously put his snow line too low
11:15<V453000>simple
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11:15<Phreeze>Samu_, just improve the generator ;)
11:16<V453000>usually a good idea to actually orientate in the old one first before improving it (:
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11:16<Samu_>snow line is 7
11:17<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r26558 trunk/src/script/api/script_station.cpp (2014-05-04 15:16:58 UTC)
11:17<@DorpsGek>-Fix: be more explicit about the type of iterators in the waiting cargo API
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11:17<V453000>which is clearly too low then
11:17<V453000>have it higher?
11:18<V453000>the solution does not sound terribly complicated does it
11:19<Samu_>you mean lower?
11:19<Samu_>there's barely any snow
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11:19<V453000>well then you have some flat or very flat or something?
11:19<fonsinchen>snow is not efficient. There shouldn't be any snow on the map
11:19<V453000>if you want more snow, get hilly/mountainnous? :)
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11:19<Samu_>i got mountainous
11:20<V453000>...
11:20<Samu_>i want about a 60/40
11:20<Samu_>60 grass, 40 snow
11:20<Samu_>on non water
11:20<V453000>variety distribution?
11:20<Samu_>then there's also sea level to factor
11:21<V453000>why dont you just make a screenshot
11:21<Samu_>im playing around with settings
11:21<Samu_>it seems to be variety distribution that's screwing things
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11:22<Eddi|zuHause>hm, "glxinfo" instantly crashing X is probably a BAD FEATURE
11:22<Samu_>there's a huge difference between None to Very Low
11:22<Samu_>way more ice
11:22<Samu_>pretty much everything is ice when I set none
11:24<V453000>never use variety distribution
11:28<Samu_>okay, got it nearly to my liking
11:29<Samu_>i must set mountainous
11:29<Samu_>then either rough or smooth
11:29<Samu_>variety is None
11:30<Samu_>now let me check sea level, brb
11:30<Samu_>hmm, sea level medium
11:31<Samu_>low generates too much ice
11:31<Phreeze>what's that variety distribution anyway ?
11:31<Samu_>it's none
11:31<Phreeze>my maps looka lways the same if with high or no
11:31<Samu_>snow level is still 7
11:31<Eddi|zuHause>variety distribution makes some areas flat while others are hilly
11:31<Phreeze>hm k
11:31<Eddi|zuHause>otherwise the whole map is the same kind of hilly
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11:34<Samu_>mountainous/smoth/medium vs hilly/rough/medium
11:34<Samu_>think i take the 2nd option
11:35<Samu_>http://i.imgur.com/sI5seHW.png
11:35<Samu_>something like this, it's how I like
11:36<Samu_>there's enough balance between farms, ice, snow, grass and not that many little islands
11:37<Samu_>also balanced with sea level
11:37<Samu_>oops, ice and snow is the same thing lol
11:37<Samu_>i mean sea in one of those
11:46<Samu_>this one looks really good http://i.imgur.com/83UZR7c.png - it's hilly/rough/low
11:46<Samu_>low sea level, that is
11:47<Samu_>took me about 20 tries to find something good :p
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12:10<Phreeze>i had a pretty good arctic map
12:10<Phreeze>lots of forests
12:10<Phreeze>lots of farms
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12:17<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26559 /branches/1.4/src/lang (13 files) (2014-05-04 16:17:25 UTC)
12:17<@DorpsGek>[1.4] -Backport from trunk: language updates
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12:20<Wolf01>bye
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12:20<Phreeze>what is that "backport"
12:21<valhallasw>Phreeze: applying a change from a newer version to an older version
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12:21<valhallasw>in this case, updating the translations in the 1.4 release based on the most recent ones
12:24<Samu_>lol @ console
12:24<Samu_>'default' is not an integer
12:24<Samu_>default is 4096, but k
12:24<Eddi|zuHause>'default' is a string, obviously
12:26<Eddi|zuHause>sooo... opensource drivers still unusable...
12:26<andythenorth>in other news, html is still also unusable
12:27<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: in the sense that the screen is black and it flickers the content every 2 seconds for 0.1 second?
12:27<andythenorth>no
12:28<Eddi|zuHause>then i win
12:28<andythenorth>in the sense that you can spend a day trying to find out what is the best way to do some trivial task
12:28<Samu_>are you creating openttd to play in a browser?
12:28<andythenorth>and at the ened of the day all you get is a headache
12:28<Eddi|zuHause>Samu_: that is already done
12:28<Samu_>oh
12:28<andythenorth>it’s not even clear when you’re definitely wrong
12:29<andythenorth>there are people defining specs, according to which I’m right
12:29<andythenorth>then there are people defining other specs, or proving why the spec is wrong
12:29<andythenorth>or worse, must be ignored to comply with a different spec which is required, and orthogonal
12:30<andythenorth>I really hate html
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12:31<andythenorth>partly the problem is that very few of the assistive technologies actually implement any specs properly
12:31<andythenorth>and Assistive Technologies Must Be Complied With
12:31<andythenorth>even though they can’t be
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12:31<andythenorth>waste of a day
12:32<andythenorth>I should have spent it drinking instead
12:35<Samu_>i created a video, realistic vs original side by side http://1drv.ms/1g0J5Dh
12:36<Samu_>much bored
12:38<Phreeze>wheres the video
12:38<Phreeze>in fact, what video
12:42<Samu_>its not opening?
12:42<Samu_>damn, it shared the folder, not the video per se
12:42<Samu_>sec
12:43<Samu_>http://1drv.ms/1g0JPbv
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12:50<Phreeze>whats realistic ?
12:50<Phreeze>left or right
12:50<Phreeze>right is sloooow
12:51<Samu_>play in full screen
12:51<Phreeze>i see
12:51<Samu_>realistic is x2 10%
12:51<Phreeze>weird that realistic is much faster
12:51<Phreeze>x2 10% means what ?
12:51<Samu_>that's one of the cases where realistic loses to original
12:51<Samu_>x2 the freight weight
12:52<Samu_>10% steepness
12:52<Eddi|zuHause>"realistic" is faster because "original" is stupid
12:52<Samu_>original uses x1 weight
12:52<Samu_>steepness has no effect
12:52<Phreeze>never played original since ottd
12:52<Eddi|zuHause>you're still not any closer to proving a point
12:54<Samu_>what kind of track layout do you want me for comparison?
12:55<Phreeze>fucking fifa website
12:55<Phreeze>i checked my username, its ok
12:55<Phreeze>register: "error: screen name in use"
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12:56<Samu_>realistic catches up on the way back, it's funny
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26560 trunk/src/lang/irish.txt (2014-05-04 17:45:09 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>irish - 32 changes by tem
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14:24<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26561 /branches/1.4 (6 files in 4 dirs) (2014-05-04 18:24:43 UTC)
14:24<@DorpsGek>[1.4] -Update documentation
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>Samu_: but the way back is irrelevant, because it does not earn you any money
14:26<andythenorth>depends on auto-refit :P
14:26<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26562 /tags/1.4.1-RC1 (3 files in 3 dirs) (2014-05-04 18:26:50 UTC)
14:26<@DorpsGek>-Release 1.4.1-RC1
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: well, then the assumption that it's empty doesn't hold anymore...
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14:56<Eddi|zuHause>hm, i think i broke plasma now :/
14:57<@planetmaker>Sufficient energy will recharge it ;)
15:02<@Alberth>add energy by smashing it to the wall
15:04<@DorpsGek>Commit by fonsinchen :: r26563 trunk/src/script/api/script_station.cpp (2014-05-04 19:03:54 UTC)
15:04<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r26558): Don't pass explicit template arguments to std::make_pair.
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15:25<@Alberth>hi hi
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15:36<frosch123>@topic set 1 1.4.0, 1.4.1-RC1
15:36-!-DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.4.0, 1.4.1-RC1 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: hg, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | #openttd.dev for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices
15:38<ST2>thank you frosch123, already checked and Goal GUI's are way better now :)
15:38<ST2>anyway, left the test server running... to ppl use it and test RC :)
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15:56<andythenorth>where is GS?
15:57<frosch123>on the north border of harz mountains
15:57*andythenorth goes north
16:07<@Alberth>you encounter a mighty river. There seems to be a bridge, but it looks very wobbly
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16:25<DanMacK>Hey all
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16:48<Eddi|zuHause>i think i was in GS once
16:51<frosch123>yay, only took me 10 hours to write a reply on the forums :)
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17:24<Airwave>I have many single-headed trains right now, and the best upgrade right now is a dual-headed one. How do I upgrade my single-headed trains to dual-headed ones while keeping the same length?
17:25<Taede>are you using auto-replace?
17:25<Taede>if so, make sure wagon-removal is on
17:26<Eddi|zuHause>there's a button "remove wagons"
17:26<Airwave>Ah, excellent. Thank you.
17:26<Airwave>I'll give that a try.
17:27<Airwave>If I switch back to single-headed trains, is there any easy way to add that extra wagon back, by the way?
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>no
17:28<Airwave>Hmm.
17:28<Airwave>Seems like a big bother then.
17:29<Airwave>Is putting two single-headed engines at each end of a train a bad idea?
17:30<Eddi|zuHause>depends on the situation. but you can't do that automatically either
17:30<frosch123>no, it's more effective than putting them directly adjacent
17:31<Airwave>Hmm, ok.
17:31<frosch123>usually engines are a lot heavier than wagons
17:31<frosch123>and it is better if less weight is on a slope at a time
17:31<frosch123>so it is better if engines are not on a slope at the same time
17:31<frosch123>which happens if you put them directly behind each other
17:32<Airwave>I see.
17:32<Airwave>Thank you.
17:32<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think the game mechanics work like that
17:33<frosch123>sure they do, slope matters per vehicle
17:35<Eddi|zuHause>i thought it was averaged over the train, like curves
17:37<frosch123>GetSlopeResistance iterates over all vehicles
17:38<frosch123>and in my games trains always slow down then the engines hits the slope, and accelerate once the engine is at the top
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17:42<Airwave>Maybe it depends if you're playing with realistic acceleration.
17:45<frosch123>noone plays without realistic acceleration
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17:59<Eddi|zuHause>i think i should screw everything up once more
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18:03<Eddi|zuHause>oh hey that went way better than expected :p
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>(i probably shouldn't have said that)
18:16<frosch123>night
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19:22<Eddi|zuHause>wasn't there once a setting in youtube to use html5 instead of flash?
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19:24<Samu>youtube.com/html5
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19:45<Eddi|zuHause>ok that works fine and uses way less CPU
19:45<Eddi|zuHause>but it now shows this "waiting for <url>" in the bottom
19:46<Eddi|zuHause>even in fullscreen
19:47<Eddi|zuHause>and comments stopped working??
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20:28<Supercheese>Oh good lord in heaven, why do some software designers decide to change everything they possibly can when releasing a new version?
20:28<Supercheese>"Let's take the existing user interface and move every single item around, just because we can"
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---Logclosed Mon May 05 00:00:57 2014