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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-05-05

---Logopened Mon May 05 00:00:57 2014
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02:13<V453000> =D
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02:22<DanMacK>Hey all
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02:39<andythenorth>ho ho
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02:40<andythenorth>the funny thing about Andrex is the sense of desperation against
02:41<andythenorth>“urgent” “immediately” etc
02:41<andythenorth>also that he seems to think none of the devs are prepared to admit that most of the game is basically crap :)
02:43*andythenorth has been in the forums
02:45<V453000>never a good idea
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03:27<@planetmaker>ho ho
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03:27<@planetmaker>andythenorth, I wouldn't say 'most of the game is mostly crap'. But we definitely can agree on "there's always much room for improvement - on most if not all aspects" :)
03:28<@planetmaker> I mean, we're here. We're here because we must have thought at least at one point in time that the game is great :)
03:29<andythenorth>yes, but now we’re wiser :)
03:29<@planetmaker>yeah :)
03:30<@planetmaker>but we know that there's a path back to ye ol' days - if we work for it :P
03:30<@planetmaker>(though to be honest, we just don't admit, that the path is infinitely long and we only enjoy playing the meta game)
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04:34<supermop>still playing on this polish server
04:35<supermop>how do i do separation in trunk?
04:35<supermop>ctrl click something?
04:40<@planetmaker>checkout the time table and read the tooltips. It tells you what to click how
04:40<@planetmaker>(and no, I don't recall, so that's the only advise I can give)
04:40<andythenorth>I tried to make separation work
04:40<andythenorth>completely failed
04:40<andythenorth>despite precise instructions
04:40<andythenorth>probably Eandythenorth
04:41<andythenorth>I wanted it for ships
04:42<andythenorth>I still don’t really understand timetables :)
04:42<andythenorth>are they intended for the model train people, rather than gameplay? o_O
04:42<@planetmaker>it's difficult to get going
04:43<@planetmaker>And I believe that's definitely one of the points with 'more room for improvement'
04:43<andythenorth>seems to be for those people who “want to create a realistic map of the UK rail network"
04:43<@planetmaker>I also always have difficulty to setup a time table and separate vehicles there
04:43<andythenorth>I just want to have 5 ships in a shared order group and have them auto-separate, using station departures
04:45<andythenorth>instead of wait, rather ‘leave station 20 days after previous vehicle in order group'
04:45<@planetmaker>yeah, sounds like one of the typical use cases I employ as well
04:47<andythenorth>I want a cadence of deliveries
04:47<andythenorth>I really don’t care about simulating reality
04:47<andythenorth>in fact, I am anti-caring about simulating reality, it makes my head hurt
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04:49<andythenorth>I have enough reality already
04:49*andythenorth considers ebaying some surplus reality
04:49<@Alberth>pick a ship, open time table, press autofill, wait for the table to fill, and add some extra time for ctachup. When done, pick the first ship that arrives at the first order, and ctrl-click "start date", a window opens with the date of "now". press "set date". Wait for everything to settle
04:49<andythenorth>lost in translation :)
04:50<andythenorth>Alberth: yeah, it’s really intuitive. I don’t know how I failed at it.
04:50<V453000>pick a ship, open time table, pres autofill, let ship get lost, buy trains
04:50<@Alberth>andythenorth: it's trivial! :p
04:52<@Alberth>oh, and of course you have to do it all again when you add or remove a ship
04:52<@Alberth>have to keep you busy :p
04:52<andythenorth>oh, so adding ships breaks it?
04:53<@Alberth>afaik it does
04:53<andythenorth>assuming it works at all
04:53<andythenorth>and upgrading models breaks it?
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04:53<@Alberth>not sure, with faster models, you'll have more time at the stations I guess
04:53<andythenorth>you know how in parachuting, you just count 10s from previous jumper, then jump?
04:54<@Alberth>just buy 20 extra ships instead :p
04:55<V453000>or ignore timetabling as a whole, win win
04:56<@Alberth>another valid strategy :)
04:57<@planetmaker>hm, I guess I didn't know either that adding vehicles breaks it :)
05:03<andythenorth>with cdist and station-refit, I am using full load a lot less
05:03<andythenorth>and trying to make timetables work more
05:03<andythenorth>ships seem to inevitably cluster, usually to the point where they overlap entirely
05:04<andythenorth>which is ugly
05:04<andythenorth>and screws up the network, because thousands of tonnes of cargo arrive at once, then nothing for months (bad for station ratings)
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05:08<Eddi|zuHause>timetabling solved the clustering for me pretty well
05:11<andythenorth>dunno why it didn’t work for me
05:11<andythenorth>I tried a couple of times
05:11<andythenorth>got bored waiting
05:11<andythenorth>auto-fill on a 500 tile ship route is like watching paint dry
05:11<andythenorth>and ffwd doesn’t work any more
05:12<andythenorth>still, it’s definitely nice that we build things with fun in mind eh?
05:12<@planetmaker>heavy maps are heavy?
05:12<Eddi|zuHause>yes, waiting is a problem
05:12<andythenorth>nah, ffwd is just borked with mavericks
05:12<andythenorth>planetmaker: got mavericks?
05:12<Eddi|zuHause>i always wanted an "estimate" button
05:13<@planetmaker>no, sorry, I don't
05:13<andythenorth>nvm. Anyway ottd is pretty borked on mehvericks
05:13<Eddi|zuHause>and/or automatically recording and just taking the previous roundtrip as timetable if i chose to use one
05:25<Eddi|zuHause>anybody used telepathy for ICQ? i don't see a function to fetch my contact list
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06:18<Samu>when using .png files for heightmaps, i have to prepare the pngs, rotating +45 or -45 degrees, but I think it still deforms the generated map
06:18<supermop>Eddi|zuHause: if ottd had tiles/tick or something as an option for speed units you could roughly estimate it yourself
06:18<Samu>how do I maintain the 1 to 1 aspect?
06:19<Samu>it looks shrinked somehow
06:19<Samu>or am I seeing things where they don't exist?
06:21<Samu>how many pixels do the minimap in-game affect height and width of a generated heightmap?
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06:21<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: well, 4096kmh-ish means 1 tile per tick
06:21<Eddi|zuHause>supermop: but you don't have an easy measure for distance either
06:22<V453000>Samu: ust make an image of size 512x512 and make a 512x512 map from that?
06:22<Eddi|zuHause>only for straight lines
06:23<Samu>i need to create a mosaic .png, not just 512x512
06:23<Eddi|zuHause>Samu: minimap tiles are 1x4 pixels
06:23<V453000>the fuck is mosaic png
06:23<Samu>the shape of the original picture
06:24<Samu>just just a square
06:24<V453000>why dont you rather getseed of the map and generate the same one again?
06:25<Samu>im using a girl to generate, and she becomes a bit shrinked in height or fat in width, guess it's what zuHause said, 1x4
06:26<@planetmaker>V453000, getseed only will give the same map with the same version of openttd, the same settings and the same newgrfs
06:26<@planetmaker>if you change any, the same result cannot be guaranteed
06:29<V453000>well yeah but it isnt generally that hard to get it about right
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06:40<Eddi|zuHause>Samu: what exactly are you trying to achieve?
06:40<Samu>a girl heightmap with the right proportions
06:41<Samu>nerdy stuff
06:41<Samu>only needs to look good on the minimap
06:44<Samu>it looks to be 3x4
06:44<Samu>not 1x4
06:45<Samu>vertical size must be increased from 100% to 133.33% I think
06:45<Samu>then rotate -45 degrees
06:46<Samu>and have the game to generate clockwise
06:47<Samu>dang, it's not 133.33%
06:47<Samu>it's moar
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06:49<Eddi|zuHause>Samu: well technically the tile is 1x4 visible pixels and a row of invisible pixels
06:49<Eddi|zuHause>so 2x4 is an approximation you could use
06:49<Samu>2x4?, then 200%
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06:57<Samu>Eddi|zuHause: u got that right! looks perfect
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07:06<Samu>original picture size: 1835x2500, adjusted picture size: 4834x4834
07:07<Eddi|zuHause>you might get better results if you scale that to a power of 2
07:09<Samu>the image editor im using doesn't seem to let me make higher images than that
07:09<Samu>gonna try a smaller image
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07:12<@planetmaker>image sizes larger than 4096^2 don't make sense anyway
07:12<@planetmaker>when you plan to use it as height map
07:16<Samu>i picked a 400x600 image
07:16<Samu>applied 200% vertical, became 400x1200
07:16<Samu>then rotated 45 to the left, became 1132x1132
07:17<Samu>i just suck at math, but does it seems correct?
07:18<@Alberth>without computing it, it doesn't look like a weird number
07:19<@Alberth>clip to 1024^1024
07:21<Samu>i'd post a screenshot but it's not safe for work lol
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07:27<Samu>i found a good image that's safe for work
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07:36<Samu>any thoughts?
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07:38<@Alberth>no relevant ones, I think
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07:41<Samu>this is how I had to prepare the image before creating a heightmap out of it:
07:43<Samu>very interesting stuff you got there with the heightmap generator
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07:44<@Alberth>the problem of course is that a colour in a random image does not represent height
07:44<@Alberth>you'd need a 3d map of the subject
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07:50<Samu>3d images?
07:51<Samu>im only using simple editing tools
07:51<Samu>paint + office picture manager
07:52<@Alberth>that will work too, but making a realistic heightmap then is a LOT of work
07:52<Eddi|zuHause>Samu: you need to make sure that higher sections have brighter colours
07:53<Samu>i know, black bakcground with bright colors works wonders
07:54<Samu>darker colors = low height or water
07:54<@Alberth>if your gf wears a white t-shirt with some print on it, the print will be lower, while in reality, it equally high as the t-shirt
07:56<Samu>I see, i can try to be selective on the images that works best, I know that either a very bright background can also be problem
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07:57<Samu>or do a bit of editing if it really bothers me too much
07:57<Samu>or invert colors
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08:17<supermop>for some reason i can't join the polish server anymore
08:18<Eddi|zuHause>now your shoes will never be shiny again!
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08:25<Flygon>supermop: Did you upset that Polish Food Joint in Albion?
08:27<V453000>did they ban you from the server for building too many trains?
08:27<V453000>happened to me once
08:28<Flygon>You can get banned for building too many trains??
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08:37<Eddi|zuHause>V453000 has a way to stand opposite of everybody else's view :p
08:39<supermop>nah keep getting a network error right as it finishes downloading the map
08:40<V453000>well admittedly they had a hard time connecting :P
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08:46<Eddi|zuHause>downloading took too long? computer too slow?
08:46<V453000>computer too slow. :)
08:46<V453000>2000+ trains isnt fun for pc
08:46<Eddi|zuHause>i meant supermop
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08:47<supermop>computer doesn't usually seem slow, was having no trouble running that game and map earlier today
08:48<Samu>download speed perhaps
08:48<supermop>i mean i am very far away from poland right now, but last night and today I had no reall connection issue
08:48<V453000>get closer then :D
08:48<V453000>like a sea closer
08:48<V453000> /ocean
08:48<Eddi|zuHause>"distance" works differently on the internet
08:49<Eddi|zuHause>sometimes the shortest way from berlin to berlin goes through the USA
08:53<tzaeru>this too can very simply be simulated by openttd..! just don't connect your roads in a city, instead have them loop around through a town on the other side of the whole map -.O
08:53<tzaeru>that's worthy of a scenario..
08:54<Eddi|zuHause>just you won't get any money from that
09:00<supermop>bed time
09:00<supermop>if any of you want to take over my company on the PL server, password is mop
09:04<supermop>it has some nicely timetabled trams!
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09:17<George>I've got a problem
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09:17<George>When I check current speed to calculate running cost factor, I check for 0 value first.
09:18<George>When a train sttands at red signal, the speed is periodically not 0, while vehicle window shows 0
09:18<George>how can it happen?
09:19<George>Vehicle details window shows running cost, there I can see jumps;
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09:20<George>non zero value seems to be 1
09:21<Eddi|zuHause>George: train waiting at block signal will constantly try to accelerate
09:21<Eddi|zuHause>George: pikka had the same problem, not sure how he solved it
09:21<George>andy why it gets non zero speed?
09:22<Eddi|zuHause>George: because of the vehicle substeps. there are 256 substeps, and hitting a red signal will reset the progress to 10 (i believe), so it will accelerate these substeps again
09:22<Eddi|zuHause>... and again, and again, and again
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09:56<George>Eddi|zuHause: And what's required to move the patch to trunck?
09:57<Eddi|zuHause>George: someone who commits it
09:57<George>Who should do it?
09:58<Eddi|zuHause>i don't know...
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10:13<andythenorth>what is infrastructure sharing all about?
10:13<andythenorth>is it a thing?
10:13<Samu>you play with a friend in the same company
10:14<@Alberth>it's a suggestion in the development section
10:14<andythenorth>Samu: sounds like coop, why do we need a patch?
10:14<@Alberth>never happy with what we have?
10:15<Samu>me? I didn't ask anything
10:15<andythenorth>I don’t understand IS.
10:15<andythenorth>why not just build new tracks?
10:15<andythenorth>is it some realism thing? For modelling trains?
10:16<andythenorth>it’s probably because in the UK we have one company owns tracks, other companies run the trains
10:16<andythenorth>the train nerds want it?
10:16<@Alberth>mostly, I think
10:16<@Alberth>we share tracks, but some tracks are still mine, and others are yours
10:16<@Alberth>no idea why that's useful
10:17<andythenorth>why bother?
10:17<andythenorth>just merge the companies
10:17<andythenorth>Yet Another Complicated Thing
10:18<@Alberth>and miss out all the "fun" you can do when you're playing competitively?
10:18<andythenorth>griefing and such?
10:18<andythenorth>it’s kind of odd
10:19<andythenorth>the only goal of infrastructure seems to be griefing, and yet all the concern seems to be about anti-griefing measures
10:19<andythenorth>the gameplay benefit is I can steal your tracks and cargo, no?
10:19<Samu>limit player #1 in company #1 of doing A and player #2 of company #1 of doing B?
10:19<andythenorth>the point is to enable me to just be a parasite
10:20<andythenorth>Samu: don’t take me too seriously
10:20<@Alberth>the point is that tracks may be expensive, so it's cheaper to use mine
10:20<andythenorth>what’s actually happening here is nothing to do with ottd
10:20<@Alberth>opinions differ :p
10:20*andythenorth is avoiding reading the Bootstrap docs to avoid having to work out how to refactor something
10:21<@Alberth>just overwrite the old with the new :)
10:21<andythenorth>if I am exchanging Valued Opinions here, that’s a valid excuse for not reading the docs
10:21<andythenorth>Alberth: I have to actually have a design :P
10:21<andythenorth>contrary to the impression, I do actually think about code before ploughing in :P
10:22<@Alberth>yeah, annoying eh, that you cannot simply start coding, and think while doing :)
10:22<andythenorth>I think it’s probably actually better than thinking first tbh
10:22<andythenorth>at least with pure css stuff I can just start firebugging
10:23<@Alberth>it often is better, at least when you can see where you'll end up
10:30<andythenorth>the refactoring I have to do is more like unifying common functions
10:30<Eddi|zuHause>well at least _I_ want infrastructure sharing to keep local traffic and long-distance traffic in different companies, but still share one cargodist network
10:31<Eddi|zuHause>it could be simulated with groups, but that's not implemented either
10:31<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: do you also use a parent company with shareholding? o_O
10:32<Eddi|zuHause>probably not
10:32<andythenorth>out of interest, why separate companies?
10:33<Eddi|zuHause>one local transport company in each city
10:33<Eddi|zuHause>different liveries, different accounting
10:34<Eddi|zuHause>different infrastructure maintenance :)
10:37<andythenorth>do you share tracks?
10:37<andythenorth>or just co-joined stations?
10:37<Eddi|zuHause>i could live with just stations
10:37<andythenorth>joining stations across companies seems interesting with lower complexity
10:38<andythenorth>basically allows cargo transfers, so possible for a company to just do one or two legs of a journey
10:38<Eddi|zuHause>still have the main problem: cargo payment sharing
10:38<andythenorth>yeah, I am not smart enough to discuss that :)
10:38<andythenorth>if we could make it a stupider problem, I become capable of opinion
10:39<Eddi|zuHause>the problem is simple: do we want to remember every hop the cargo has taken for the whole route?
10:40<andythenorth>doesn’t that grow memory use horribly?
10:40<Eddi|zuHause>it's potentially very memory heavy
10:40<andythenorth>and worse on large maps?
10:41<Eddi|zuHause>but it's the only solution
10:41<Eddi|zuHause>unless you do leg payment directly
10:41<Eddi|zuHause>which allows cheating
10:41<andythenorth>…we completely change the cargo payment model
10:41<andythenorth>the cheating is that you get paid as soon as leg is complete?
10:43<Eddi|zuHause>yes, like transfer across the map
10:43<Eddi|zuHause>or never actually reach destination
10:44<andythenorth>put the money in escrow
10:44<Eddi|zuHause>drop cargo in the middle of nowhere
10:44<Eddi|zuHause>still get paid
10:44<andythenorth>each company has an accounts receivable table: amount, cargo packet
10:44<andythenorth>when packet arrives all amounts are paid out
10:44<andythenorth>meanwhile we just track one amount per company per packet, instead of per leg
10:44<andythenorth>or something
10:44<Eddi|zuHause>that does not reduce the amount of memory consumed
10:44<andythenorth>I dunno, I can’t program
10:45<Eddi|zuHause>you can't store the money received because you don't know the money before it arrives
10:45<Eddi|zuHause>you need to store distance travelled (in the correct direction) and time taken
10:46<andythenorth>oh I had made an assumption, the shipper pays a fixed price for shipping, forget all this cargo rate nonsense
10:46<andythenorth>it would also ‘fix’ this problem people have with what they see as perverse incentive with distance
10:46<Eddi|zuHause>good luck convincing anybody of that :p
10:46*andythenorth does some hand-waving
10:47<andythenorth>hand-waving didn’t work
10:47<andythenorth>trying to think of a way to divide fixed payment across legs
10:47<andythenorth>not good
10:48<Eddi|zuHause>see, it doesn't even solve your problem
10:48<andythenorth>now I have to go back to IE 7 bugs
10:49<Flygon>At least it's not IE 6
10:51<Eddi|zuHause>nobody cares about ie6 anymore
10:51<Eddi|zuHause>not if he intends to stay sane
10:52<Rubidium>didn't MS release a IE 6 bugfix this week?
10:52<Eddi|zuHause>i heard something about an XP bugfix
10:53<Eddi|zuHause>a propos XP, anybody knows where i put the SP3 update pack the last time i used it?
10:53<andythenorth>I was able to stop caring about IE 6 last year
10:54<Flygon>Careful, the Chinese still love IE6 D;
11:04<Samu>i can't turn around a road vehicle when it's on a bridge. Intended?
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11:06<Eddi|zuHause>can't overtake on bridges either
11:06<Samu>ok t.t
11:07<Eddi|zuHause>basically the bridge does not exist, the vehicle is on the far end of the bridge head while on the bridge
11:07<Eddi|zuHause>and it can only turn around at the end of the tile
11:07<Eddi|zuHause>so it can only turn around when it reached the bridge head
11:08<Samu>i see, thx for explaining
11:12<Eddi|zuHause>is it bad when i outsmart the sudoku generator? it said i had to branch out 3 times to solve, but i only branched out once?
11:15<@Alberth>nah, it's software, and thus broken
11:16<Samu>I forgot to apply share orders on a group of vehicles, is there a way to do it once they're bought?
11:16<Flygon> No overtaking zone
11:20<Samu>i wish i could drag a box to select multiple vehicles
11:20<Samu>then give orders to all them at once
11:21<Flygon>Be really awesome
11:21<Flygon>Also, is there a hotkey that clicks the "Go to" box in the vehicle's journey planner?
11:21<Flygon>It'd make rolling out networks less painful
11:23<Samu>i dont know much about hotkeys, but there's an option that presses go to when you open the window and it has no orders yet
11:23<Samu>the orders window
11:24<Samu>advanced settings > filter string, type go to
11:24<Samu>should popup
11:36*andythenorth thinks assigning vehicles to order groups (or vice versa) could use some love
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11:43<Samu>if I stop a vehicle that has a timetable, what will happen? are the lost days while paused counted towards it?
11:43<andythenorth>a lesson I wish I’d learned earlier in life
11:44<andythenorth>what sounds like authoritative advice on a technical subject is usually just sophisticated confusion
11:46<Samu>bah, didn't work
11:46<andythenorth>another useful lesson would have been: html and css do *not* attract the best thinkers, typically
11:46<Samu>the stopped vehicle is trying to catch up
11:46<Eddi|zuHause>Flygon: tried "G"?
11:47<andythenorth>but they do attract lots of verbose, pondering, second-rate thinkers with strong opinions, and their own blogs
11:47*andythenorth goes back in shell
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11:47<Eddi|zuHause>Samu: need to adjust start date
11:47<Flygon>Lemme boot my desktop ad find out
11:49<Flygon>Oh man
11:49<Flygon>I forgot how crowded my London game is
11:49<Flygon>Sooooo much red...
11:49<Flygon>No wonder I gave up when I saw the 5,000 RV limit was reaching
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11:51<Samu>timetable idea is good, but it would need a revamp for accessibility
11:51<Samu>it's not easy to understand what it does
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11:54<Eddi|zuHause>yes, but timetable "revamps" tend to make it more complex at the same time
11:54<Eddi|zuHause>there are a few on the forum
11:55<Samu>the speed limit buttons for example, still can't think of a way when I'd use that option
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12:03<Samu>I would attempt to merge timetable and orders
12:03<Samu>the stay for x days is really useful
12:04<Eddi|zuHause>i had a network where i could have used it
12:04<Eddi|zuHause>but it wasn't implemented back then
12:04<Eddi|zuHause>i had a terminal station where trains arrived fast, but i needed a way to reliably ensure the train arrived after the previous one left
12:05<Eddi|zuHause>so if i was able to slow down the incoming train a bit, it would have worked
12:05<Eddi|zuHause>i couldn't let him start up earlier because it would interfere with other sections of the rail
12:05<Eddi|zuHause>and i couldn't stop inbetween
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12:07<Samu>I see
12:08<Samu>that's a case of conditional orders
12:08<Samu>no? then im not seeing the whole picture
12:09<Samu>it's a station that accepts something that produces goods?
12:10<Eddi|zuHause>i have two passenger lines: A-X-B and A-X-C where X is a junction/waypoint
12:10<Eddi|zuHause>at X, trains from B and C must arrive in an interleaved fashion
12:10<Eddi|zuHause>if one of them stops because the line is blocked, the entire timetable breaks down and doesn't recover
12:10<Eddi|zuHause>now at B a train arrives, and another one leaves
12:11<Samu>i see now
12:11<Eddi|zuHause>if the leaving train is blocked by the incoming train, then it will block the next train coming from C
12:11<Samu>you need all that very tightly timed to work
12:15<Samu>breakdowns will ruin it
12:15<Eddi|zuHause>,%2029.%20Aug%202019.png <-- this was the timetable
12:16<Eddi|zuHause>no breakdowns
12:18<Samu>dat language... ugh
12:19<Samu>zug? :o
12:19<valhallasw>no, Zug.
12:19<Eddi|zuHause>Zug is a town in switzerland
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12:28<Eddi|zuHause>"Strictly speaking, Zug means Pull, Tug, Draught, Procession, March, Progress, Flight, Direction, Expedition, Train, Caravan, Passage, Stroke, Touch, Line, Flourish, Trait of Character, Feature, Lineament, Chess-move, Organ-stop, Team, Whiff, Bias, Drawer, Propensity, Inhalation, Disposition: but that thing which it does not mean — when all its legitimate pennants have been hung on, has not been discovered yet." [Mark Twain]
12:34<Eddi|zuHause>(full story here:
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12:45<LordAro>oh my poor computer
12:46<LordAro>3GB of swap being used
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12:47<Eddi|zuHause>i haven't had swap being used for a long time now
12:47<LordAro>try running a minecraft modpack
12:47<LordAro>and chrome
12:47<LordAro>with 8GB RAM
12:47<Eddi|zuHause>i have 12GB
12:48<Eddi|zuHause>i started with 4GB but that was not enough right from the start :/
12:49<LordAro>i have some money, so i think i'll buy another 8GB
12:52<tzaeru>browsers of '14, now requiring a minimum of 8GB of RAM
12:52<tzaeru>fuck yes.
12:53<tzaeru>or well, I suppose that's mostly website's fault..
12:53<Eddi|zuHause>firefox has some evil memory leaks
12:53<Eddi|zuHause>or maybe one of the plugins like flash
12:53<Eddi|zuHause>or probably both
12:54<LordAro>chrome doesn't leak memory (i think) but it certainly isn't very memory efficient
12:54<andythenorth>16GB is a sensible amount
12:54<Eddi|zuHause>i had 1GB a few years ago, and it was perfectly viable
12:54<Eddi|zuHause>then i upgraded to 4GB and the same programs didn't run anymore
12:55<andythenorth>most of mine disappears to virtualbox and photoshop
12:55<andythenorth>running extra OSes eats it
12:55<andythenorth>and Firefox
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13:07<tzaeru>firefox sure does eat it.
13:08<tzaeru>also if you make the mistake of using such IDEs as Eclipse, you're bound to run out of memory even if you had a gazillion billion terabytes of it
13:08<Eddi|zuHause>the only times i ran out of memory the past year were when i was recording and ran out of disk space
13:09<Eddi|zuHause>for some reason that means the program is buffering up all the stuff somewhere
13:09<Eddi|zuHause>the weird part of this is that even if i free up disk space during this phase, it won't write the buffered stuff to disk
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13:21<Samu>can you make road/rail crossing a setting?
13:21<Samu>on or off?
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13:23<@Alberth>how would that work?
13:23<Rubidium>that's called "newgrf"
13:23<Samu>permission to build road on competitors rail
13:23<@Alberth>in particular when you have crossings, and turn it "off"
13:23<Samu>and permission to build rail on competitor's road
13:24<Samu>i hate to see my trucks die to a troll train
13:24<Samu>this should fix it
13:24<@Alberth>sounds dangerous
13:25<George>planetmaker: are you here?
13:25<George>I try to make a repositiory
13:25<Samu>there are one-way roads and they can already block rails from crossing, but that would mean I'd have to double the road
13:25<Samu>just because of a troll
13:25<George>but my tortoisehg can't write there
13:26<George>says "no suitable response from remote hg"
13:26<George>What am I doing wrong?
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13:31<@Alberth>quite likely, devzone is not giving remote creation access
13:32<@Alberth>which is quite sane to do :)
13:32<George>Can you make one for ECS?
13:32<@Alberth>don't think I can
13:33<George>Who can?
13:34<@Alberth>mostly planetmaker. I'd say just make an issue at the devzone help center asking for an empty repository
13:35<@Alberth>work on a local one, and when devzone is ready, you can push your data into the devzone repository
13:40<Eddi|zuHause>George: if you previously used https to push, that is not possible anymore, you need to use ssh
13:40<George>I use SSH
13:40<Eddi|zuHause>then i don't know
13:40<George>It works fine for xUSSR set and WAS
13:41<George>Eddi|zuHause: As Alberth wrote it may happen because it does not exsist yet
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13:42<@Alberth>the "repository" tab of the project also doesn't display a revision, so something is definitely wrong with it
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26564 /trunk/src/lang (finnish.txt hungarian.txt) (2014-05-05 17:45:23 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>finnish - 5 changes by jpx_
13:45<@DorpsGek>hungarian - 22 changes by Brumi
13:48<Samu>newgrf :(
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13:51<@Alberth>hi, hi, you just missed your own language commit :)
13:57<Samu>but why newgrf?
13:57<Samu>can't it be based on one-way roads?
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14:12<Brumi>6 minutes late for my commit... :P
14:12<Brumi>and even joining afk
14:16<Supercheese>This is IRC, the vast majority are afk
14:16<Rubidium>because at least here you can easily get afk ;)
14:16<frosch123>some are bots, with the only purpose to wish a new year
14:17<Rubidium>all those fancy phone chat applications make it really hard to be afk
14:17<Rubidium>although... more like aft
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14:25<Wolf01>hello o/
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14:54<Phreeze>Samu server running ?
14:56<@planetmaker>hi hi
14:57<Phreeze>name ?
14:57<Phreeze>anything running thats more than just a test ? :D
14:57<Samu>there's an AI on it with 1700 buses
14:58<Phreeze>k..leave it .. :D
15:00<Samu>2019 buses now
15:00<Phreeze>that's why i dont like ai
15:00<Phreeze>it's just mass producing shit
15:01<Samu>he doesn't do industries at all
15:01<Phreeze>why do you use AIs anyway ?
15:01<Samu>for testing, and see how ppl deal with them
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15:32<Phreeze>to the german here, watch RTL
15:32<Phreeze>i'm so shocked
15:32<Phreeze>i want to kill some people...
15:32<Phreeze>undercover in an old people's home
15:33<Phreeze>one has fallen from bed, and is lying head down, the women working there leave here and first take pictures and laugh
15:34<__ln___>it's good people enjoy their work
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15:35<Phreeze>i dont know if this is irony a joke or whatever
15:35<Phreeze>but it was not the moment to joke
15:36<__ln___>not the best moment, no
15:42<Samu>woah, the AI just bloomed
15:42<Samu>it's on 4000+ road vehicles
15:42<Samu>limit is 5k
15:42<Phreeze>what server are you using ? is it crashing ? :D
15:42<Samu>it's running fine
15:43<Phreeze>local ?
15:43<Phreeze>...local pc or dedicated server
15:43<Phreeze>or virtual host
15:44<Samu>local pc
15:44<Phreeze>ah k. bom.
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15:57*tommylommykins waves
15:57<tommylommykins>does anyone mind helping with a little problem? I'm trying to install openttd over the commandline in linux. Executing openttd dies with an error saying that it doesn't know where opengfx is
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15:58<tommylommykins>I have downloaded and extracted opengfx, but I have no idea how to tell openttd where it is
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15:58<@planetmaker>section 4 of the readme tells you where openttd expects to find it
15:58<@planetmaker>yet it should also ask you whether you want to download it
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16:00<tommylommykins>oh, serves me right for not reading second half of the error message
16:00<tommylommykins>it does point me at the readme
16:00<tommylommykins>It doesn't prompt me to install it though
16:00<tommylommykins>oh well, that's my fault for not reading the whole error
16:07<tommylommykins>thanks for the help, by the way <3
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17:38<tommylommykins>hmm, another annoying question... I'm trying to enable some newgrfs on this server
17:39<tommylommykins>I've copy/pasted them into .openttd/content_download/newgrf, and the debug output given with debulevel "grf=9" says that openttd has found them
17:39<tommylommykins>but when I put them in the [newgrf] section of the openttd config file
17:39<frosch123>easiest method is to prepare a savegame with a gui client and upload that savegame
17:39<tommylommykins>and then start openttd, openttd deletes them from the config file
17:40<frosch123>common mistake in openttd.cfg is mixup of / and \
17:42<Wolf01>'night all
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17:45<tommylommykins>that worked quite nicely :D
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22:11<kiz>Is cargo price a function of distance as the crow flies? Seems like it should be, but figured I would check.
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22:49<Supercheese>the graph "Cargo payment rates" will confirm that for you
23:06<kiz>got it, roger.
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---Logclosed Tue May 06 00:00:59 2014