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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-05-15

---Logopened Thu May 15 00:00:16 2014
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03:29<supermop>anyone here have any ideas about a running a tiny little server for essentially only openttd?
03:29<supermop>something that is a little square box and doesn't use too much power
03:30<@planetmaker>the cheapest way, including electricity, would probably be to rent a cheap VPS
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03:36<Flygon>I'm with planetmaker
03:37<Flygon>You can get cheap VPS's from a decent provider if you look about
03:41<Xaroth|Work>wonder how much a raspberry pi can power, server-wise
03:41<Xaroth|Work>probably not -that- much
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06:21<peter1139>Enough for a small game. We're sadly rather expensive, as servers go.
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07:44<Xaroth|Work>peter1139: not that bad tbqfh, stuff like minecraft is 10 times worse
07:51<supermop>how cheap is cheap?
07:57<Eddi|zuHause># chirpy chirpy cheep cheep
07:58<Eddi|zuHause>(man that is a stupid song :p)
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07:59<supermop>i am glad i don't know it then
07:59<supermop>my new mouse is glowing brightly, Eddi|zuHause
07:59<supermop>every bit as ugly as I hoped/feared
07:59<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure you've heard it, it's quite old
08:00<supermop>german?
08:00<Eddi|zuHause>no
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08:01<supermop>are we talking 1940s country? 1870s folk? 1950s pop?
08:01<Eddi|zuHause>i think 70's
08:02<supermop>i was thinking a box the size of my router to run linux and ottd server, sitting next to my router
08:02<supermop>but i hadn't thought of vps
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10:34<Taede>ello
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11:30<codewaffle>so I'm running 1.4 and have nothing but FIRS installed, haven't played in a few years... can't seem to refit oil tanker cars to carry gasoline/chemicals
11:31<codewaffle>not sure if I have to wait for them to become available or if I'm doing something wrong
11:31<Taede>nothing but firs, so you are running original vehicles, at least for ships?
11:31<Taede>original vehicles can only carry original cargoes afaik
11:32<Taede>unless you also use old vehicles new cargoes newgrf, or newgrf's for each vehicle type you intend to use
11:32<codewaffle>ah
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12:19<@Alberth>hai
12:21<LordAro>quak
12:21<frosch123>hola
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12:23<@planetmaker>o/
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13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26588 /trunk/src/lang (english_US.txt slovak.txt) (2014-05-15 17:45:25 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>english_US - 1 changes by Supercheese
13:45<@DorpsGek>lithuanian - 3 changes by
13:45<@DorpsGek>slovak - 15 changes by Milsa
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14:15<andythenorth>lo
14:15<@Alberth>evenink
14:15<andythenorth>anything?
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14:16<@Alberth>opengfx mars needs more love
14:16<@Alberth>hi Wolf01
14:16<Wolf01>hi hi
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15:09<andythenorth>ottd is dying
15:09<andythenorth>again
15:09<@Alberth>still
15:09<andythenorth>always
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15:10<andythenorth>http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/changeset/26582/ looks interesting
15:12<andythenorth>does this have the side effect of decaying cargo at transfers?
15:14<Eddi|zuHause>yes, it applies to transfer stations as well
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15:17<andythenorth>well that’s interesting
15:17<andythenorth>I’ll have to change play style :)
15:17<andythenorth>or maybe not
15:17<andythenorth>maybe I just don’t have so many stations with 10k tonnes awaiting pickup :P
15:18<Samu>i have an idea for the list of company's stations
15:19<Samu>there's the station name, vehicle type, then cargoes waiting
15:19<Samu>when pointing to a cargo in one of the stations, it should popup the estimated number of cargo waiting
15:19<Samu>the real value, without having to click
15:20<Samu>it could also say the cargo rating %
15:21<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: it doesn't matter if there are 10k waiting. just whether you haven't picked anything up for 2 years
15:22<Eddi|zuHause>Samu: so like a tooltip?
15:22<Eddi|zuHause>seems plausible...
15:22<Samu>when pointing to the vehicle type icon of a station, it could tell how many vehicles of that type have that station in its orders, let's say, an airport station, with an aircraft icon, it could tell that I have x numbers of aircraft visiting it
15:22<Samu>yes
15:22<Eddi|zuHause>go implement it!
15:23<Samu>gah, it's not for me to implement, just suggesting it
15:23<Eddi|zuHause>nobody else will do it...
15:25<Samu>and the other day someone joked about crashed vehicles and openttd not being a graveyard or so
15:25<Samu>well, there could exist a small group of destroyed vehicles somewhere
15:25<andythenorth>anythign?
15:25<andythenorth>or that cargo?
15:26<Samu>mostly to keep track of it's orders and what it was carrying
15:26<Samu>only informative
15:26<Samu>not real vehicles
15:30<Samu>a listing of destroyed vehicles
15:31<Eddi|zuHause>that cargo
15:31<Eddi|zuHause>Samu: the destroyed vehicle stays around for about a month
15:31<Samu>teh story book could fit the graveyard purpose
15:33<Samu>i know, but that's sometimes needs full attention
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>click on newsmessage, open depot, ctrl+clone, start, done...
15:37<Eddi|zuHause>what's "full attention" about that?
15:37<Eddi|zuHause>then figure out why the vehicle crashed and resolve that situation for the future
15:38-!-Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has joined #openttd
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>like turn off random plane crashes
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>build a bridge over the rails
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>don't mess with signals while trains are near
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15:44<andythenorth>don’t build PBS on a line with existing trains running and no previous signalling
15:46<Supercheese>just rm all non-path signals
15:46<Supercheese>I've never understood them anyway
15:46<Supercheese>well except basic block, which are plain dumb
15:47<Supercheese>and they're a pain in the ass to translate
15:51<frosch123>night
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16:24<Samu>land contours on map bug
16:24<Samu>0 m, 200 m, 400 m, 600 m, 700 m
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16:25<Rubidium>why?
16:26<Samu>it should be 100m, 200 m, 300 m, 400 m, 500 m
16:26<andythenorth>we bother with that crap?
16:26<Rubidium>why should it be that?
16:26<andythenorth>it’s just low-high in my head :P
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16:26<Supercheese>the height values mean nothing anyway
16:27<Supercheese>they're 100% arbitrary
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16:27<Samu>ah
16:27<Rubidium>50 meter per height level, lowest = 0, highest = 15. So min is 0 m, 750 is max
16:27<Samu>50?
16:27<Supercheese>arbitrary
16:27<Supercheese>could be 100
16:27<Supercheese>could be 1e17
16:28<Samu>50 m, 100 m, 150 m, 200 m, 250 m then?
16:28<Supercheese>I presume the current value was chosen because "it sounds good"
16:28<Samu>0 m is sea level i believe
16:28<Rubidium>which is perfectly valid as a height level
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16:28<Supercheese>It doesn't sound like he's complaining, 0m sea level sounds fine
16:28<Rubidium>after all, 90+% of the Netherlands is less than 50m high
16:29<Samu>0 m is colored green, so it's not water
16:29<Rubidium>in any case, it is NOT a bug
16:30<Samu>okay, not a bug
16:31<andythenorth>Moar Bugs
16:31<Rubidium>I'd rather have boar mugs
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16:33<Supercheese>that can be arranged
16:34<Samu>map contours screenshot TTDX vs OTTD: https://public.dm2302.livefilestore.com/y2peLvkp6lfQFm-se4Ba-IPiMAxeOOrm3otvb98t43XQR9JabssKBFTJiBNAz0I8cTaMwkOFggthW6tsTG6TondhGcpjFfI-v1AMSGfAy2uzUU/map%20contours.png?psid=1
16:35<andythenorth>a smug rob
16:35<andythenorth>or gas bum
16:35<Rubidium>so, TTDX was bugged
16:35<andythenorth>or bum gas
16:35*andythenorth digresses
16:36<Rubidium>after all, sea level isn't at 100 m
16:36<andythenorth>shameful
16:36<Rubidium>even then, there are several ways to calculate what the height of a tile should be
16:37<Rubidium>so whatever value you use, it's wrong in more cases than it will be right
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>i'm at heightlevel 2
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>or something
16:38<andythenorth>we should remove all these fricking units
16:38<Samu>there can be land at sea level, 0 m
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16:39<Samu>lowering land that isn't touching water
16:39<andythenorth>Samu: try the canals trick ;)
16:39<andythenorth>it’s not a cheat
16:39<andythenorth>it’s my favourite unintended consequence
16:39<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: YES! ... IN YOUR FACE BASIC SCHOOL TEACHER ASKING "5 WHAT? SAUSAGES?"
16:40<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: a suppressed memory? :o
16:40<Samu>i see ppl building tunnels when they lower land to sea level
16:40<Samu>they risk a flood though
16:41<andythenorth>yes
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>you can use canals to stop a flood
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16:43*andythenorth wants to play ottd again
16:43<andythenorth>but can't
16:43<andythenorth>because Eddi|zuHause didn’t write a GS yet
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>i did write a GS
16:44<andythenorth>you did? :o
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>some 2 years ago
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>it didn't do much though
16:44<SpComb>print "Hello World"
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>and is probably broken now
16:44<andythenorth>you should write a GS generator
16:44<andythenorth>more your style I think :)
16:44<andythenorth>from [goals] generate [random stuff]
16:44<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: it did a voronoi partition over all cities of the map to find their neighbours
16:45<Samu>the graveyard story book
16:45<andythenorth>classify goals, put them in a simple structure (json or something), generate?
16:45<Eddi|zuHause>the idea was to partition the map into countries and regions
16:45<Samu>keeps track of destroyed vehicles' orders and cargo
16:45<andythenorth>quite specialist :P
16:45<Samu>just logs it
16:45<andythenorth>I don’t know
16:46<andythenorth>given that limit is 1 GS per game, I wouldn’t waste mine on that :)
16:46<Eddi|zuHause>but then i had no inspiration what to do, and i get sidetracked after 3 days...
16:46<andythenorth>partition, meet arbitrary goals in each territory to unlock next
16:46<andythenorth>sounds unexciting, but would be fun to play
16:46<andythenorth>guaranteed, or your money back
16:47<andythenorth>this modal is interesting
16:47<andythenorth>‘cancel' doesn’t
16:47<andythenorth>it just goes ahead and deletes
16:47<andythenorth>customers won’t like that
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>one thing it could do is that when countries go to war it blocks the tracks, so vehicles can't pass the border anymore
16:48<andythenorth>suitably evil
16:48<andythenorth>can you end the war by delivering stuff
16:48<SpComb>sounds like a gross simplification of international politics
16:48<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: "are you sure? [Yes] [Hell Yes]"?
16:48<andythenorth>also isn’t war banned? :P
16:49<Samu>Graveyard story - "On 2nd February 1955, Truck 1 of Company 1 was destroyed. It was transporting 21 tonnes of Coal out of 21 tonnes of Coal with Stations A and B on it's orders."
16:49<SpComb>*Hell Yeah
16:49<Eddi|zuHause>SpComb: so which part of the game is not a gross simplification of anything?
16:49<Samu>"It was destroyed by Train 1 of Company 2.
16:49<andythenorth>anything by a dedicated train fan
16:49<andythenorth>the foamers are out for a 1:1 model
16:50<Samu>"Manager of Company 1, named Player1 was dissatisfied with Player2 of Company 2"
16:50<Samu>something like that
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17:21<Samu>Im trying to put this on excel, but I don't know how to do it, wanted to create easy graphs for that formula
17:21<Samu>http://wiki.openttd.org/Cargo_income
17:22<Samu>is it a function?
17:23<Eddi|zuHause>"IF"?
17:24<Eddi|zuHause>possibly there exists a "piecewise" thingy
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18:02<Eddi|zuHause>would the game be equally addictive if it was called "11" and linear instead of exponential?
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18:11<Wolf01>'night all
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18:28<Samu>i dont understand what is the max for
18:28<Samu>on that formula
18:29<Samu>max(31,255)
18:29<Samu>will that return 255?
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18:31<Samu>http://wiki.openttd.org/images/4/4b/Income_Formula.png
18:32<Samu>Max(31, (if t<=Cdays then 255)) will this result in 255?
18:32<Eddi|zuHause>Samu: the 31 is the minimum value
18:33<Eddi|zuHause>and "max" is certainly an excel formula
18:33<Samu>yes I found it, its almost "there"
18:33<Samu>but this max is confusing me a bit
18:34<Samu>is it even possible to have a value below 31 from that { branch?
18:35<Eddi|zuHause>lots of - in there
18:35<Samu>okay, let me try a different cargo, I was testing with coal values
18:36<Eddi|zuHause>assume c_Days1=c_Days2=0
18:36<Eddi|zuHause>then t=128 will already result in -1
18:36<Eddi|zuHause>also "days" is a misnomer, it's "cargo age steps", which is 185 ticks by default, but can be changed by NewGRFs
18:37<Eddi|zuHause>185 ticks is 2.5 days
18:38<Eddi|zuHause>someone should probably clean that up one "day" :p
18:39<Samu>aha, got it with food
18:39<Samu>got a result of 14
18:39<Samu>Max(31,14) = 31, right?
18:39<Eddi|zuHause>yes
18:40<Eddi|zuHause>i believe there is also a maximum cargo age of 255
18:40<Eddi|zuHause>which is like 2 years
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19:25<Samu>which monetary unit is the Income result? Is it GBP?
19:27<Samu>must I convert the result into a monetary unit?
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20:05<Eddi|zuHause>internal money is GBP
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---Logclosed Fri May 16 00:00:18 2014