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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-05-29

---Logopened Thu May 29 00:00:38 2014
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01:00<supermop>just spent a couple hours tried to cut a little tram from a tiny block of pine using only a dovetail saw
01:00<supermop>results were mixed at best
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04:21<@Alberth>hi hi
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04:43<@Alberth>unleashing yetis to the masses! :)
04:44<V453000>fishing for VALUABLE OPINIONS (tm)andythenorth
04:45<@Alberth>"will it do stockpiling?" :p
04:47<V453000>the BAD FEATURE you mean? :P
04:47<V453000>so far I imagine instant production... processing for a while is not entirely out of the question I admit
04:47<V453000>FIRS does something in between doesnt it
04:48<@Alberth>not sure, I haven't played with firs for a long time
04:48<@Alberth>maybe I should play one of the smaller economies one day
04:48<Supercheese>FIRS processes instantly
04:48<V453000> I haven't played with firs for a long time <- no need to write "with firs" :P
04:49<Supercheese>it "stockpiles" supplies which merely increase production rates
04:49<Supercheese>well, I guess that's sort of "in between"
04:49<Supercheese>from a certain point of view
04:49<V453000>ah yes
04:49<@Alberth>stockpiling in itself is not so bad, the idea of ramping up production is quite nice
04:49<@Alberth>the big pain is in the hard upper limit
04:50<@Alberth>and ecs does very precise ratios, I think, but balancing cargo flow is very hard
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04:51<@Alberth>please use a nick that is more uniq supercheese :p
04:53<V453000>ECS is like perfect example of bad feature
05:00<@Alberth>imo it should be more forgiving in the ratios, and don't have hard limits. On the other hand, if you like a though challenge ecs gives you a lot of room for that :)
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05:07<V453000>I still think collecting any ratio of any cargo is just wrong, industries simply do produce differently, and even if just slightly, the difference is massive in the long term
05:08<V453000>so since the player doesnt have good tools to control it, the challenge gets to be rather tedious and stupid :P not mentioning trivial
05:15<@Alberth>you are also more of a sandbox player :)
05:16<V453000>no I just use most of the game features
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05:58<supermop>ah so you've launched it, V453000?
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06:04<TGYoshi>Hey guys, I always wondered if there's a way to more quickly schedule "simple" routes (and create those trains), such as go to station <x>, load any, go to the single central unload station etc
06:04<TGYoshi>it's quite tedious to keep doing it :p
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06:08<@planetmaker>the most simple way is goto A, goto B. that's it
06:08<@planetmaker>if A supplies the cargo and B accepts it, that's all it needs
06:09<@planetmaker>you might use ctrl+click to order full-load orders
06:09<TGYoshi>well, connecting 20 suppliers to one acceptor is boring :D
06:09<TGYoshi>oh, never knew that, gonna use that, thanks :P
06:09<@Alberth>20 trains same A and B ?
06:10<TGYoshi>city -> town
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06:10<TGYoshi>well differing A
06:10<@Alberth>I often clone a train without sharing orders, and then change A
06:10<@planetmaker>if they have the same A and B, then just clone the trains with shared orders
06:11<@Alberth>not sure if it is actually simpler than just building a new train :)
06:11<TGYoshi>it feels slow to do that somehow, i guess it only takes 10 seconds
06:12<TGYoshi><delete A> <add A> forget to skip...
06:12<TGYoshi>guess i'll have to deal with it, thanks ^_^
06:12<@Alberth>I guess it's simpler if you put A at the bottom
06:12<@Alberth>never tried that though
06:13<TGYoshi>seems like A gets put at the top if you delete the old A first tho
06:13<@Alberth>you can also build a train with just B as order, and clone that :p
06:14<TGYoshi>not even a terrible idea XD
06:14<@Alberth>never tried that either
06:15<TGYoshi>I can imagine the "Train x has no orders" coming up every few seconds
06:15<@planetmaker>"Train x has too few orders" ;)
06:15<TGYoshi>well that :D
06:15<@Alberth>yesterday I ctrl-cloned trains before giving them orders by accident. The orders do get shared even then, I found
06:16<@planetmaker>yup :)
06:16<TGYoshi>I rarely have cases where I have multiple trains going from/to the same location tho
06:17<@Alberth>you always have 1 train running between A and B?
06:17<TGYoshi>usually yes
06:17<@Alberth>I use at least 2 always
06:17<TGYoshi>what's the distance?
06:17<@Alberth>but perhaps with pax it's different
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06:17<@Alberth>distance is usually 50% loading of the second train, at an industry
06:18<@Alberth>a hundred tiles or so
06:18<@Alberth>(I play with low density industries)
06:19<TGYoshi>guess I should try it too, never really thought of it
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07:30<frosch123>orudge: while the certificate for tt-forums has been renewed, tt-wiki and newgrfspecs still have the old one
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07:34<supermop>i cant remember the last time i saw owen chat in this channel
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07:35<V453000>@seen orudge
07:35<@DorpsGek>V453000: orudge was last seen in #openttd 18 weeks, 0 days, 15 hours, 8 minutes, and 7 seconds ago: <orudge> frosch123: well, there's GCC 4.8, and Paul Smedley, the chap who has been doing all kinds of ports to OS/2, seems to have fixed whatever was broken - shall try to get a patch from him
07:36<supermop>i hope he was talking about os/2 warp
07:40<@planetmaker>warp seed...
07:41<@planetmaker>warp speed. I heard today the problem of faster-than-light travel is solved:
07:47<LordAro>planetmaker: also,
07:49<Aristide> <3 <3 <3 <3
07:50<@planetmaker>hehe, LordAro :)
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08:09<@Rubidium>we can already travel at warp speeds, just not very high warp speeds ;)
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08:13<@Rubidium>e.g. warp factor 0.06 (TOS) has been reached by human made craft ;)
08:14<@planetmaker>hehe :)
08:14<@Rubidium>I could even manage warp factor 0.002 myself fairly easily
08:15<@planetmaker>0.002? Relative to what?
08:15<@Rubidium>the street
08:16<@Rubidium>it's less than 9 km/h. I can manage that fairly easily
08:16<@planetmaker>hm... 2 per-mille of light speed? Sorry, Rubidium, I doubt that :)
08:17<@planetmaker>@calc 300000000 * 0.002 * 3.6
08:17<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 2160000
08:17<@planetmaker>impressive speed in km/h ;)
08:17<@Rubidium>that's the thing... warp speed uses the constant c, but with a factor: speed = w**3*c
08:18<@planetmaker>lol, not a linear factor?
08:18<@Rubidium>@calc 0.002**3*299792458
08:18<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 2.398339664
08:18<@Rubidium>@calc 2.4*3.6
08:18<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 8.64
08:19<LordAro>Rubidium: you act as if warp speed is used consistently anyway ;)
08:19<@Rubidium>after TOS the warp speed was changed though... to w**(10/3)*c up to warp 9, then some scaling so that warp 10 = infinity
08:19<Pikka>full steam ahead, cap'n bob!
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08:21<@Rubidium>@calc 0.002**3*299792458
08:21<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 2.398339664
08:22<@Rubidium>@calc 0.002**(10/3)*299792458
08:22<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: 0.302171862747
08:22<@Rubidium>damn... that's even slower in TNG and after
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12:05<Eddi|zuHause>alo'ol *hicks*
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13:35<Wolf01>hi hi
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14:22<LordAro>Alberth: :p
14:25<LordAro>you reinvented it in a recent commit
14:27<@Alberth>no, I didn't, I think. I convert a hexx digit, rather than test it
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14:29<LordAro>ah, you are correct
14:29<LordAro>you may ignore me :p
14:29*Xaroth|Work ignores LordAro
14:29<LordAro>not you!
14:29*Xaroth|Work pats LordAro
14:29<Xaroth|Work>why not?
14:30<LordAro>because of reasons!
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14:34<Xaroth|Work>LordAro: liked the update btw
14:39<andythenorth>what is?
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14:42<Xaroth|Work>the latest update on freerct, andythenorth
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15:20<andythenorth>anyone want to do UI crap?
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15:43*andythenorth wonders what cdist does with multiple valid routes between nodes
15:47<@Alberth>splitting cargo over them afaik
15:47<@Alberth>in particular when you have more cargo to transport than capacity with one link
15:47<@Alberth>there is even a control for it, iirc
15:48*andythenorth tries it
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16:02<Eddi|zuHause>mind you that it'll go horribly wrong once all of the links are above capacity
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16:11<andythenorth>what’s the penalty on a 6.2L train in a 6L station?
16:11<andythenorth>is it proportional to over-length?
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16:15<frosch123>time = normal_time * 2 * (1 + overhang/8)
16:17<frosch123>so any epsilon overhang doubles the time, then it grows lineary
16:21<andythenorth>so passengers stacking up in large cities
16:21<andythenorth>seems insolvable
16:21<andythenorth>is it just like tetris?
16:21<frosch123>use trams
16:21<andythenorth>the more you play, the faster the blocks arrive
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16:24<andythenorth>is there a trivial way to see how many pax a town building generates?
16:25<andythenorth>newgrf wiki
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16:28<frosch123>it's proportional to population
16:28<frosch123>displayed in tile info
16:31<frosch123>andythenorth: make a tram/bus set with proper stuffed capacities: 10 times more than other sets, but also 10 times faster cargo decay
16:31<andythenorth>I made metro trains already :P
16:31<andythenorth>they’re stuffed
16:31<andythenorth>not 10 times :P
16:34<NGC982>Has any thought been give to having different brake-downs if more trains are connected to the same set?
16:36<andythenorth>yes there used to be a patch for it
16:37<andythenorth>turn off breakdowns? :x
16:37<andythenorth>paxdist is fun
16:38<andythenorth>can someone make a GS for it?
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16:43<NGC982>I guess so.
16:44<frosch123>NGC982: there has been some patch which adds different types of breakdowns
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16:44<frosch123>some stop the whole train
16:44<frosch123>some reduce power
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16:44<frosch123>some are fixed at next station
16:44<frosch123>and so on
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16:44<NGC982>Oh, i see.
16:46<frosch123>i.e. the "stop whole train" gets worse when adding more engines, and the "reduce power" becomes less worse with more engines
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17:52<Aristide>Lololololololol, create a game « ISP Tycoon » can be lol
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19:25<Eddi|zuHause>so... the point of regret definitely passed by now...
19:26<Eddi|zuHause>i always find it very hard to imagine that people can be so terribly bad at following simple explanations
19:28<LordAro>Eddi|zuHause: neko? yeah, i wonder that too sometimes
19:35<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i don't find a python3-imaging or python3-pillow, only a python-pillow which is apparently for 2.7
19:36<Eddi|zuHause>i use opensuse 13.1
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20:12<@Rubidium>I guess he's trying to outsmart himself by typing what he thinks is written down instead of just doing the sane thing and copy-paste the example
20:16<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: that would be fine if it happened once or twice, but there have been a handful of people like him where whatever you tell them, you can be SURE that they will understand it the wrong way...
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20:18<Eddi|zuHause>let me remind you of petert or leanden, where you could be sure in the instant a discussion started, it would end in disaster...
20:20<Eddi|zuHause>and there were a bunch of others, which i don't remember the names of
20:20<Eddi|zuHause>and i had a person like this back in school...
20:21<Eddi|zuHause>who, whatever the topic was, they a) ask the wrong question, and b) can't do anything useful with the answeer, and c) repeat this over and over
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20:34<@Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: if only we could let everyone ignore them; after all "if you have nothing useful to say, keep your mouth shut". Since they won't make use of what you would've said, you can infer that what you actually said is not useful and as a result it shouldn't be said
20:35<Eddi|zuHause>well you can put them into a group where the posts are automatically hidden (moderated and stuff)
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---Logclosed Fri May 30 00:00:39 2014