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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-06-13

---Logopened Fri Jun 13 00:00:59 2014
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01:32<V453000>wtf original train acceleration model is still default?
01:32<V453000>I thought we dont live in stone age anymore
01:34<V453000>I like the new settings organization though
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01:57<Flygon>Oh man
01:57<Flygon>I dun guud
01:57<Flygon>I gotta quadriplate a busy mainline with lots of junctions
01:57<Flygon>Go me :B
02:12<Flygon>Sooo yeah
02:12<Flygon>Moral of the story
02:12<V453000>more like learn2expand
02:13<V453000>any network can break under x amount of trains, which can come sooner or later ... and building Huuuuge at the start is just boring, expensive, ugly, and not nearly as good for learning
02:16<Flygon>And those networks that're 'prebuilt' end up not working well for the task anwyay
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02:30<V453000>my main point is that when something breaks, the player can see the mistake and learn from it. You cannot build anything big from scratch without that
02:31<Flygon>I've been building for over 24 months dangit :P
02:33<V453000>not enuf :)
02:38<Flygon>That's as good as it's gonna get...
02:38<Flygon>The quadriplating wasn't the problem
02:39<Flygon>Building a 100% new junction to handle 6-8 seperate lines going through it was
02:49<V453000>I would like to see that
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03:15<Flygon>V453000: I stretched the definition of lines, of course
03:15<Flygon>And not all of them are 100% active (eg. frequent pax.) yet
03:16<V453000>oh you call quadruple 2+2 :D
03:17<V453000>btw that isnt very frequent indeed, lets see later
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03:21<Xaroth|Work>Flygon: that line between Topeka Westfarm and Salina mines looks a bit off
03:23<Flygon>V453000: Yeah. Pax normally ramps up the frequency
03:23<peter1139>oh fuck
03:24<peter1139>dog keeps farting :(
03:24<Flygon>Xaroth: Probably because it's unfinished
03:24<Flygon>Hence the WIP
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03:24<Flygon>I'm going to have to completely remove the mine stations, and probably convert them to a RoRo design to faciliate cooperating with quadding
03:25<peter1139>Quadriplating? Is that like goldplating?
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04:32<talebowl>I've been looking on the wiki and the forums for conventions for measuring patch performance, and found mostly snippets, so I was hoping some of you might be able to fill in some blanks. What I know so far is that I can use the TIC and TOC macro's for built-in performance measuring. Furthermore, I should use openttdcoop savegames for somewhat realistic results (I also read something about configuring with --disable-ai?). I guess that
04:32<talebowl> what I'm looking for is how I should do the actual test (which, of course, depends on the test subject. Performancetesting a patched backend algorithm would be quite different from testing a gui-related patch, I'd assume). In this case, I have a patch that acts on the main viewport (to be more detailed: it highlights the biggest possible combined surface when funding a new industry, taking into account the different layouts possible
04:32<talebowl>). What I'm looking for is: how do I invoke the necessary interface actions programmatorically, or do I have to do that manually (which wouldn't really be ideal, having to do that, say, 2*50 times, aside from being less reliable)?
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04:48<peter1139>Does that need benchmarking?
04:54<talebowl>The way it currently is, probably not, but I'm considering trying to do some of the checks that happen after the location has been chosen (location, proximity to others etc) before selecting a location, which, I think, would certainly need benchmarking. Also, I thought it would be useful to measure it anyway, in the current state, to have some idea of the effects (there doesn't seem to be too much of an impact, as far as I can tell w
04:54<talebowl>ithout measuring)
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05:08<toobored`>Flygon: how did you do it to make your network look so nice/organized?
05:08<Flygon>22 years of OCD
05:10<Flygon> My older stuff looked stupid
05:10<toobored`>i just started playing again after many years and i'm still struggling with signals/pre-signals and multi-in/multi-out stations
05:10<Flygon> I'm sad I never completed this
05:10<peter1139>Don't bother with presignals.
05:10<toobored`>let me show you mine... although I did plan for capacity.... I made the mistake of having the wrong orientation
05:11<Flygon>I only use block signals, one way signals, and the one way signals you can pass behind
05:11<Flygon>All others are not too useful
05:12<peter1139>Rubbish, only path signals are needed.
05:12<toobored`>peter1139: that's what i'm understanding now
05:12<peter1139>Presignals if you want to do silly stuff with 'priorities'
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05:13<peter1139>V453000 obviously isn't here :D
05:13<V453000>teach people horseshit I dont care
05:14<V453000>using block signals helped every single person I met so far, but stay ignorant
05:14<toobored`>V453000: imho the GUI/docs are broken about pre-signals
05:15<V453000>in what way?
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05:15<toobored`>wiki says that I have to press Ctrl-Click
05:15<toobored`>however doing that ,at least in 1.4.1, gives me an old-style signal
05:16<V453000>yes, you have to press ctrl key and click after the signal is built
05:16<V453000>build it first
05:16<V453000>then cycle through signals by ctrl clicking
05:16<Flygon>toobored`: You go for more function than me
05:16<Flygon>I was bored
05:16<toobored`>I know, I plan to remove them at some point
05:16<toobored`>(the 90 deg. bends)
05:17<V453000> bridgez?
05:17<toobored`>V453000: about that. I do not remember the color/shape of the signals by heart. so ctrl-clicking and cycling through them is hard
05:18<V453000>yet. :)
05:19<toobored`>i don't want to man :P have already enough in my head
05:19<toobored`>i jsut want a gui, exit pre-signal click it click at the grid, ready
05:19<V453000>there is a gui?
05:20<toobored`>there is a gui for the simple signal. for a pre-signal I have to build and then ctrl-click and cycle
05:20<V453000>what :0
05:20<V453000>there isnt gui for presignals? always was
05:20<V453000>will check after lunch, cya for now
05:20<peter1139>There is a GUI.
05:20<Flygon>V453000: Needs more psudo-bridgeunderbridge
05:21<toobored`>peter1139: then I haven't understood anything..
05:21<peter1139>In advanced settings, filter on signal. Interface -> Construction -> Enable the signal GUI
05:21<peter1139>Or Ctrl-click on the signal button in the toolbar.
05:21<toobored`>ok. i have that.
05:21<peter1139>By default most people don't need it because everyone can just use path signals.
05:22<V453000>people who cany play very well typically do that, yes.
05:23<toobored`>ok I have that. the problem is what V453000 said. that I have to build first and then to make it a pre-, ctrl-click it again
05:23<toobored`>or that's what I understood
05:23<peter1139>If you have the signal GUI open, you can just select the presignal you want.
05:25<toobored`>a thanks that clears things up
05:26<toobored`>btw cargo dist is extremely funny
05:27<toobored`>I was thinking the other day, if one can control the 'weight' of a specific 'graph'
05:28<toobored`>for example if you connect two independent networks with an airport, I would assign a weight to it in order not to flood the new pipe
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05:33<Flygon>toobored`: I'll get a full screenie of the completed quadriplation soon
05:33<Flygon>So you can see how disorganized it really is
05:33<Flygon>Had to grade seperate a few junctions
05:33<Flygon>And it looks uuuuuugly
05:35<Flygon>Where I am, we say plate
05:35<peter1139>Quadruplication, maybe.
05:35<Flygon>Ah, yes
05:35<Flygon>That's what I meant
05:36<peter1139>I'd probably go with quad-track tbh :)
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05:49<Flygon>toobored`: Full quadding. It's messy. Big file alert.
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05:52<peter1139>Hmm, need to implement ship collisions...
05:52<Flygon>Good idea
05:53<Flygon>A lot of these ships are from pre-rail era
05:53<toobored`>Flygon: no probs with big files anymore. they just upgraded me to 50/10 vdsl
05:53<Flygon>The game started in 1705
05:53<Flygon>toobored`: I'm only on 24/1 (17-19/0.9 realistically) ADSL =/
05:54<Flygon>ADSL2+ specifically
05:54<Flygon>I can't bloody wait for Fibre
05:54<Flygon>100/40 POOOOOWAAAAAG
05:55<Flygon>250/100 if I can afford it
05:55<Flygon>But chances are
05:55<Flygon>My new house will be on a RIM =/
05:56<toobored`>Flygon: adsl2+ is what I had as well. 50/10 now syncs to 45/10.
05:56<toobored`>what's RIM?
05:56<Flygon>peter1139: I gotta remove all those boats some point
05:56<Flygon>They require really big bridges to not look stupid, but clip anyway
05:56<Flygon>And this's not getting into the river width thing you mentioned
05:56<Flygon>toobored`: UUuh.... minature telephone exchange
05:56<peter1139>Mine was 18/1, but it dropped to 12/1 :(
05:57<toobored`>damn peter1139
05:57<toobored`>although i'm pretty sure with popcorn time can stream 1080p
05:57<peter1139>Streaming video never interested me.
05:58<Flygon>RIM is a genericifieed term here
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05:59<toobored`>Flygon: so no ADSL over a pair implemented with RIM
05:59<Flygon>RIMs have less phone ports than ADSL ports
05:59<Flygon>And it's Telstra ADSL, regardless of the ISP you use
05:59<Flygon>So you can't get Annex M
05:59<Flygon>I REQUIRE faster uploads
05:59<Flygon>But, nope
05:59<Flygon>Telstra hate you
06:00<toobored`>on the last file you uploaded, what's the point of starting a game from 1700?
06:01<peter1139>Because you can :)
06:01<Flygon>I wanted to see how I'd handle having awful boats and road vehicles
06:01<Flygon>As it turns out
06:01<Flygon>I totally abused the hell out of OTTD's water mechanics
06:01<peter1139>You probably want less time-penalties in those early years.
06:02<toobored`>peter1139: i think that even on a large map, your towns will grow VERY large.
06:02<Flygon>I used default penalties
06:02<Flygon>toobored`: That's why I turned off towns building roads
06:02<Flygon>To prevent that
06:03<Flygon>I know it's very... hackish
06:03<Flygon>But it's the best solution I got
06:04<Eddi|zuHause>talebowl: the easiest (and least accurate) method of performance check is "make run-prof"
06:07<talebowl>I'll take a look, thanks :)
06:08<Flygon>toobored`: Pretty, or nightmare? :D
06:09<peter1139>Heh, you still have old vehicle warnings enabled...
06:10<toobored`>Flygon: it's pretty. although I'd like a screenshot of multiple trains entering/leaving the station :P
06:10<Flygon>toobored`: Still haven't ramped up running vehicles, sorry x3
06:10<Flygon>I had a suburban system running in Denver
06:10<Xaroth|Work>RAMP IT UP
06:10<Flygon>But it was too unprofitable
06:11<Flygon>I needed to triple head to get the desired acceleration
06:11<toobored`>oooh. it's still the 1880s
06:12<Eddi|zuHause>talebowl: might neeed "./configure --enable-debug=! --enable-profiling"
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06:13<Flygon>Also, excuse the weird terminus o the 'Denver Pax' platforms
06:13<Flygon>It's a temporary terminus. As you can tell by the line sticking out the rear
06:13<toobored`>does "Road layout for new towns" affect only *new* towns in the save game?
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06:16<Eddi|zuHause>toobored`: correct
06:17<Flygon>I love how the Consolidation locos look when at speed, but not struggling to take off
06:17<Flygon>The smoke looks quite... hard worky
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06:21<Flygon>Just a shame they still struggle to haul freight at fast enough acceleration to be hugely useful at RoRo stations x.x
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14:08<Wolf01>hello o/
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15:01<@Rubidium>good evening
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16:54<toobored`>have another question with regards to cargodist. let's say I connect to my rail network a distant airport. due to the distance effect, that destination stole a lot of cargo for that airport.
16:55<toobored`>if i remove the destination from routing, what happens to the cargo waiting for that destination?
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16:58<fonsinchen>If you completely kill the link the cargo will be rerouted
16:58<Diablo_D3>whats cargodist?
16:58<fonsinchen>If there is no new destination for the cargo it will go "via any station".
16:59<fonsinchen>But the distant airport should get only a small part of the cargo, except if you set the distance effect very low.
17:00<Diablo_D3>huh thats an interesting thing
17:00<Diablo_D3>no server runs with it?
17:00<toobored`>fonsinchen: thanks. the wiki page didn't clarify what you said.
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17:00<fonsinchen>The wiki page is for Diablo-D3
17:01*Diablo-D3 sighs and launches openttd
17:02<Diablo-D3>maybe someday the opengl blitter patch will be put into trunk
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17:16<frosch123>maybe we can find something else than can be abbreviated as opengl
17:22<Xaroth|Work>open game list?
17:24<frosch123>maybe andy and v can assemble a library of generic vehicle/building/cargo graphics, which people can use for rapid grf development: "open graphics library" or so
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17:32<@Rubidium>what's the point of using a *very* suboptimal technology for something?
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18:30<Wolf01>'NIGHT ALL
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---Logclosed Sat Jun 14 00:00:00 2014