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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-06-18

---Logopened Wed Jun 18 00:00:08 2014
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02:10<V453000>planetmaker is now officially in the yeti army
02:10<@planetmaker>purr purr! :P
02:11<@planetmaker>or grawl?
02:11<V453000>slug slug
02:11<@planetmaker>nah, I'm not that slimy! :P
02:12<V453000>is probably the best one
02:12<V453000>fat, lazy, furry, slow with bad coordination but good physical strength
02:13<V453000>probably not going to be furry, dont want one yeti to have 100mb in source size :)
02:14<@planetmaker>not furry :(
02:14<@planetmaker>you just need a furry texture there, I think, no?
02:14<@planetmaker>not actually bumpy-furry
02:14<V453000>most likely some displacement yes but idk, will see what skin will they get
02:15<V453000>for now they will probably look rather robotic as that will be their base bone structure
02:15<V453000>the model can be enhanced to look more organic later
02:15<@planetmaker>I just got a bit wtf when reading forums. I asked for a savegame. I got a rar archive of the whole openttd folder and like "didn't yet create one, but all is ready and configured to create one"
02:16<@planetmaker>I'm unsure on how to reply...
02:16<Supercheese>The stupid thread called "Maclev trains" always bugs me. It's supposed to me Maglev, dangit
02:17<ST2>maybe he rar'd the game running... hoping was included too :)
02:17<@planetmaker>you're right, Supercheese. Fixed title
02:17<Supercheese>whew, much improved :)
02:17<V453000>I still think forum style of expressing self makes something like a square root of everybodys IQ
02:18<V453000>"everybody" except some
02:20<@planetmaker>V453000, alberth is right, the higher crops make it look somewhat more interesting
02:20<@planetmaker>looking at them in comparison
02:21<@planetmaker>and I agree, a silo would also be more boring than the existing barrels. They're a nice expression of dis-order
02:21<@planetmaker>A rusty machinery or so somewhere would be awesome
02:27<Supercheese>or fuel tanks
02:27<Supercheese>I almost always see elevated fuel tanks on farms
02:28*planetmaker has never seen one
02:28<@planetmaker>just normal ones, but not prominently around either. It's not the typical thing imho
02:28<Supercheese>Something like
02:28<@planetmaker>definitely not
02:29<Supercheese>perhaps it's more of a US thing
02:29*Diablo_D3 quit playing openttd again
02:29<Supercheese>those suckers are all over here
02:29<Supercheese>easy to model
02:30<Supercheese>cylinder with legs
02:30<@planetmaker>let's not make it easy for V :P
02:30<@planetmaker>this is the advanced class, not the beginner one .P
02:31<Diablo_D3>is it possible that openttd isnt fun?
02:32<@planetmaker>of course
02:33<Diablo_D3>well its like
02:33<Diablo_D3>people do all this neat shit for openttd
02:33<Diablo_D3>and then no server uses it
02:34<@planetmaker>as server I only use stuff which is found on bananas
02:34<Diablo_D3>well like, all the popular servers are ran by
02:35<Diablo_D3>and they all use pretty vanilla stuff
02:35<@planetmaker>seems to be their and your problem. Not OpenTTD's
02:36<@planetmaker>play elsewhere where the game and the newgrfs suit you
02:36<Diablo_D3>well, yes, I could play single player
02:36<Diablo_D3>but its kinda boring
02:36<@planetmaker>play on other servers...
02:37<Diablo_D3>there arent really any
02:37<Diablo_D3>no one plays on them
02:40<V453000>Alberth: planetmaker: I had the same feeling but couldnt decide
02:40<V453000>rusty machinery would work for me :D
02:41<Diablo_D3>theres other stuff like
02:41<Diablo_D3>I'd love to play at native res
02:41<Diablo_D3>but the UI elements are too small
02:41<Diablo_D3>and on top of that, the GL blitter patch was never committed to upstream
02:43<@planetmaker>really terrible
02:52<Diablo_D3>I dunno, I have a really bad love/hate relationship with openttd
02:52<Diablo_D3>like, I'll not play it for a year
02:52<Diablo_D3>then have a really bad craving for it
02:52<Diablo_D3>then come back
02:53<Diablo_D3>play it for two weeks
02:53<Diablo_D3>and then remember why I dont play it anymore
02:55<Diablo_D3>like, the scale of items are kind of... weird.
02:55<Diablo_D3>like, towns feel too small
02:55<Diablo_D3>and industries feel too small
02:59<Diablo_D3>its mostly stuff that cant be fixed because its set in stone
03:24<peter1139>Go play Arma if you want scale.
03:25<Diablo_D3>peter1139: I dont mean like that.
03:25<Diablo_D3>its just that either the vehicles seem too big or the buildings seem too small
03:26<@planetmaker>can you phrase what you want in positives "I want things to work / be like..." instead of "not like ..."
03:26<Diablo_D3>planetmaker: no, because Im not requesting it to be fixed because I realize how much of a shitstorm it would cause
03:27<Diablo_D3>I think this is why I was banned from here a long time ago
03:27<Diablo_D3>I asked if it would be possible
03:27<Diablo_D3>and some chanop got pissed off and banned me
03:28<peter1139>Some of those things are not "broken" to be "fixed"
03:28<Diablo_D3>peter1139: well, the gui element problem is broken and does need to be fixed
03:28<Diablo_D3>someone made a grf that fixes it, so it can be done, but you have to apply it on the server
03:28<Diablo_D3>its not something you can optionally use
03:29<@planetmaker>it actually is
03:29<Diablo_D3>not last time I tried it =/
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03:54<@planetmaker>Diablo_D3, Download opengfx big-gui and enable it in your newgrf selection. Then exit openttd. Open your openttd.cfg for editing
03:54<@planetmaker>copy the line containing like 52577801|20B5D8122F2B4AD74ADDA30E44BA8233|opengfx_biggui-2.0.0/ogfx-biggui.grf = 1
03:54<@planetmaker> from the [newgrf] section to the [newgrf-static] section
04:01<peter1139>Could do with a UI for that ;)
04:01<Diablo_D3>planetmaker: k
04:02<Diablo_D3>yeah it'd be nice to get a ui for that
04:02<Diablo_D3>and have it built in
04:02<Diablo_D3>it'd make openttd more accessable
04:03<peter1139>For the very few people who use it.
04:04<Eddi|zuHause>i think last time we had a discussion about it, we came to the conclusion that an action14 flag for static-ability would be useful
04:06<peter1139>Just scan the GRF :p
04:06<@planetmaker>peter1139, that's definitely a catch22. Nobody knows about it, so no-one uses it
04:08<Eddi|zuHause>peter1139: the scan would happen anyway, as the flag can't be trusted, but the scan only has to happen on activation, whereas the flag can be used as a filter for unactivated GRFs
04:08<Eddi|zuHause>otherwise you'd have to do the scan for all grfs at startup
04:09<Eddi|zuHause>or you'd have no filter for GRFs that are static-able, making the GUI more complicated than it needs to be
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04:52<@planetmaker>V453000, one of the things which could lay or stand around could be like a pitchfork. Yeti like manual labour, do they?
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05:23<Diablo_D3>Eddi|zuHause: so will the flag be added?
05:29<Diablo_D3>btw, you know what I would find interesting?
05:30<Diablo_D3>the whole forrestry thing should actually be eating a forrest
05:30<Diablo_D3>like not a 4 by 4 block of identical trees
05:30<Diablo_D3>but an amorphous blob of trees that can grow and contract
05:30<Diablo_D3>and leave behind cut down tree stumps
05:39<Diablo_D3>thats what a city should look like
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06:18<V453000>they very much do planetmaker :D question is whether pitchfork is too tiny
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06:49<__ln__>@seen Bjarni
06:49<@DorpsGek>__ln__: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 2 years, 36 weeks, 3 days, 10 hours, 30 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <Bjarni> heh
06:52<peter1139>@seen tron
06:52<@DorpsGek>peter1139: I have not seen tron.
06:52<peter1139>@seen darkvater
06:52<@DorpsGek>peter1139: darkvater was last seen in #openttd 4 years, 9 weeks, 1 day, 23 hours, 14 minutes, and 2 seconds ago: <Darkvater> good ol' days :)
07:10<@planetmaker>V453000, it needs a yeti-sized pitchfork which is suitable to handle the giant weed which grows on that plantation
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08:12<peter1139>Not to be confused with a tuningfork.
08:15<__ln__>@seen tuningfork
08:15<@DorpsGek>__ln__: I have not seen tuningfork.
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08:26<Eddi|zuHause>that would be fun, a mob of villagers with tuning forks...
08:26<Eddi|zuHause>maybe works against ice monsters :)
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08:38<Eddi|zuHause>"You have died of Dysentery"
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09:03<UukGoblin>on PC, when I click a rail station construction, and hover my mouse over the game area, I see white squares and blue squares showing me where exactly the station will be before I click it. Same with placing rails and other things. However, on android, this is missing - when I hover my mouse, I see nothing, and the stuff appears in a hard-to-predict location only after I click the mouse. I can't find any settings that would affect it, can you help?
09:05<peter1139>It's on the station build window.
09:05<Eddi|zuHause>check the android topic in the development forum
09:05<Eddi|zuHause>the android port is inofficial
09:05<peter1139>"Coverage area highlight"
09:06<peter1139>If no highlight appears at all, then yeah, what Eddi|zuHause said.
09:06<Eddi|zuHause>peter1139: no, the android port likely does weird things with mouse positioning, so the tile highlighting will never happen
09:06<UukGoblin>peter1139, yeah, it's On, but doesn't appear
09:07<UukGoblin>Eddi|zuHause, thanks, looking around now
09:07<@planetmaker>then report it to the person maintaining the android port. e.g. in the android topic at
09:08<UukGoblin>it sort of makes sense when you use the touchscreen normally, however I much prefer the laptop mode provided by libSDL - where you use the touchscreen as a laptop touchpad and move the cursor with it
09:08<UukGoblin>kk thanks :-)
09:10<UukGoblin>(also, I have a bluetooth mouse)
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09:37<NGC982>Hey, i need some inspiration for a new ttd server
09:37<NGC982>I currently have a USSR, UK, Japanese and American server running.
09:37<NGC982>And i need something funky.
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10:15<peter1139>Are they full?
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11:03<UukGoblin>how can I check production (and % transported) of an oilfield?
11:03<@Alberth>click on the oilfield
11:04<@Alberth>it's an industry
11:04<UukGoblin>I then get the stats for the station
11:04<UukGoblin>so I see what's waiting there and what it accepts
11:04<UukGoblin>(a gray window rather than orange one)
11:05<UukGoblin>oh... got it
11:05<@Alberth>an oilrig, you mean then?
11:05<UukGoblin>have to click in a bit different place
11:05<UukGoblin>yeah, oilrig
11:05<@Alberth>yeah, click at a different spot :)
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11:17<toobored`>NGC982: a large european map with mediterean and the north coast of africa (egypt,libya etc!
11:21<__ln__>even hitler failed with that big a map
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11:22<toobored`>__ln__: byzantium worked kind of... for a while
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11:29<Eddi|zuHause>well there was wwottdgd
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12:14<UukGoblin>if I have a lot of cargo waiting on a station that accepts this cargo, can I force-accept it?
12:14<UukGoblin>(I had "transfer" in orders accidentally)
12:15<Eddi|zuHause>you have to have a vehicle pick it up and drop it again
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12:28<Eddi|zuHause>"with 250.000 simultaneous peers, this season finale of Game of Thrones is the most shared file in the history of filesharing"
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14:34<Tramvai>Hey guys and gals
14:34<Tramvai>Tonight I return with a new question... what causes a cities population growth to come to a standstill? A city won't grow over 12k for some reason.
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>the speed of house closing increases when there are more houses, but the speed of house cronstruction is constant (or decreases, when the roads have dead ends)
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>so there is an equilibrium
14:36<Eddi|zuHause>but where this equilibrium is depends on many factors, like number of stations served, road layout chosen, house set used, ...
14:37<Tramvai>So, my roads could be the cause?
14:37<Tramvai>Not exactly long and straight... :)
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>the original layout is one of the least effective
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>the roads are too close to each other, if they are spaced out more, more houses have space
14:39<Eddi|zuHause>also, construct a 5th station, and make sure each of them is serviced regularly
14:39<Tramvai>A station... What should that be?
14:39<Tramvai>A bus stop?
14:39<Eddi|zuHause>any station
14:39<Eddi|zuHause>the number of station signs count, and that a vehicle loads or unloads there every 20 days
14:41<Tramvai>Alright, thanks.
14:41<Tramvai>Would love to get it to atleast 20,000.
14:42<Eddi|zuHause>there have been reports of towns up to 1M and cities up to 3M
14:44<Tramvai>That sounds ridiculous
14:45<Eddi|zuHause>i think 40k should be possible for a town like this
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14:45<Eddi|zuHause>especially if you tweak the roads a bit
14:47<Eddi|zuHause>no idea what that even is
14:47<Wolf01>I was hoping to get "batman" in 4 or 5 steps
14:47<Tramvai>Roadbits? :S
14:49<@Alberth>Wolf01: hmm, without telling us the goal? that would be a challenge :)
14:49<Wolf01>eheh :D
14:52<Tramvai>Adding a few stations did improve the growth, cheers.
14:53<@Alberth>try sub-tropical, there towns do not grow if they are in the desert :)
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16:27<Wolf01>sometimes I think those codes exists only in those sites:
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16:33*andythenorth plays ottd
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16:53<andythenorth>consists :(
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17:03<andythenorth>all my big pax stations have 3k-4k pax waiting
17:06<Prof_Frink>More busses!
17:07<andythenorth>balls to buses
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17:16<freeagy>hi all
17:17<freeagy>how can i install openttd
17:17<freeagy>i m a big fan :)
17:17<frosch123>run the installer
17:18<freeagy>i need the original game?
17:18<@planetmaker>openttd is the original game :)
17:19<Eddi|zuHause>for various values of "original"
17:19<@planetmaker>well, for mine :)
17:20<Eddi|zuHause>i think your value of "original" is quite far on the outskirts of the bell curve :p
17:20<freeagy>whats the difference Download stable (1.4.1) Download nightly (r26654)?
17:20<@planetmaker>I forged those statistics myself. It's right the median ;)
17:20<Supercheese>Well, no offense to any OGFX artists, but the original graphics are way better
17:21<Eddi|zuHause>freeagy: nightly has experimental features, which may contain more bugs than usual
17:21<frosch123>nightly means "1.5 alpha"
17:21<frosch123>so, if you are new, start with 1.4.1
17:22<Eddi|zuHause>or if you want to play multiplayer, also start with 1.4.1
17:22<Prof_Frink>Nightly will explode, burn your house down and eat your cat.
17:23<Eddi|zuHause>there is no warranty that stable won't do that either
17:23<frosch123>Supercheese: no offense to any artists, but the ogfx graphics are actually nicer once you get used to both
17:23<Prof_Frink>Eddi|zuHause: Stable usually only does one of the three.
17:24<Eddi|zuHause>Prof_Frink: but there is still no warranty
17:24<@planetmaker>full refund for your purchase, Eddi|zuHause !
17:24<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: you can't say that either, because there may be people out there who paid actual money
17:25<@planetmaker>I didn't see any of that. No refund for transaction fees
17:25<Diablo-D3>[05:20:54] <Supercheese> Well, no offense to any OGFX artists, but the original graphics are way better
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17:26<Diablo-D3>the original graphics have that retro hand pixel drawn look
17:26<Diablo-D3>the new ones are that 90s cgi look
17:26<Diablo-D3>I never cared for it tbh
17:26<Eddi|zuHause>ogfx is probably fine, but i hate the rails and the maglevs
17:26<Diablo-D3>what I really wish, btw
17:27<Eddi|zuHause>the rails look like they've been rendered out-of-focus, and the maglevs are just plain terrible
17:27<frosch123>Diablo-D3: don't confuse ogfx with zbase though
17:27<Prof_Frink>I never liked the TTD monorails/maglevs. TTO monorails all the way!
17:28<Eddi|zuHause>and then there's the general darker tone of everything
17:28<Prof_Frink>Or even better, TTO monorail bridges. Bewdiful.
17:28<frosch123>i have no idea what maglev looks like
17:28<frosch123>i cannot remember building maglev the last time
17:28<Eddi|zuHause>don't bother
17:28<@planetmaker>maglev looks... not like maglev but like a bob track
17:28<frosch123>probably a decade ago
17:28<+glx>Prof_Frink: not will but can :)
17:28<Diablo-D3>frosch123: er?
17:28<@planetmaker>but that goes for TTD and OpenGFX alike
17:28<Diablo-D3>maybe Im thinking of zbase then
17:29<Eddi|zuHause>yes, i don't really like the TTD maglev either, but the ogfx maglev is an order of magnitude worse
17:30<@planetmaker>maybe I will replace it somewhen by smits
17:30<Eddi|zuHause>then there's this "transrapid track" with the terribly done fake elevation
17:30<@planetmaker>but that's a bit coarse, too
17:31<Diablo-D3>well what I want is
17:31<Diablo-D3>bigger buildings in openttd
17:31<Diablo-D3>by default
17:31<Diablo-D3>like huge skyscrapers
17:31<Eddi|zuHause>i actually like smits, but for a base set it might not be the Right Thing (tm)
17:31<frosch123>use ttrs
17:31<frosch123>Diablo-D3: use ttrs
17:31<frosch123>but personally i consider skyscrapers extremly ugly
17:32<Eddi|zuHause>i want less skyscrapers
17:32<Diablo-D3>I said by default
17:32<Diablo-D3>and having even smaller houses would be nice too
17:32<frosch123>default won't change
17:32<Diablo-D3>frosch123: yeah thats the problem
17:32<frosch123>the point of default is being default
17:32<Diablo-D3>if default doesnt change, then servers will never take it up
17:32<frosch123>that's the problem of the servers
17:32<frosch123>or maybe of the user interface
17:33<frosch123>but with bananas grfs there should be no problem
17:33<Eddi|zuHause>maybe if it actually downloaded the bananas grfs on join without further interaction?
17:34<Diablo-D3>that'd be nice
17:34<Diablo-D3>games have had that for the past 15 yeas
17:34<Diablo-D3>openttd should have it
17:35<@planetmaker>Diablo-D3, you whine about 'servers', but from what you tell, you only ever play on one...
17:35<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not an expert in game psychology
17:35<Diablo-D3>planetmaker: I play on the ones
17:35<Diablo-D3>they have like 10 or w/e
17:35<Diablo-D3>and its usually the only populated ones
17:36<@planetmaker>I refute that statement
17:36<@planetmaker>it only says that you play on one server. But don't look elsewhere
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17:37<Diablo-D3>planetmaker: it?
17:40<@planetmaker> shows that your statement is already wrong
17:40<Diablo-D3>planetmaker: I dont play on the goal-less ones
17:41<@planetmaker>that still makes your statement wrong
17:41<@planetmaker>but limits the amount of other available servers slightly
17:43<@planetmaker>but if you want something like "exactly like this except..."... go start your own or talk to the server owners and get involved there
17:43<Eddi|zuHause>if there are 5% of servers using goals, and 5% of servers using newgrf, then "servers that use goals and newgrfs" is a diminishing fraction (assuming both variables are independent, which they probably are not)
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17:43<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, both% are much bigger
17:43<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: /me shrugs
17:44<Diablo-D3>I mean, I could start a server, but I doubt anyone will play on it
17:44<Diablo-D3>if people liked multiplayer newgrf, all the servers would be doing it by now
17:44*planetmaker considers an ignore for whiners
17:44<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: i think you are wrong.
17:45<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: well, on this, I'd like to be wrong
17:45<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: no matter how easy you make changing the config, the majority of people will use the default config
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17:46<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: /me shrugs
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18:57<toobored`>does anyone play with the metro trains of 2cc set instead of buses?
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19:01<Eddi|zuHause>why "instead"?
19:01<Eddi|zuHause>it doesn't prevent you from using busses
19:05<Supercheese>perhaps there is a "as the primary intracity transport method" missing
19:05<Diablo-D3>Ive always wanted to do metro trains
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19:05<Diablo-D3>but they always seemed more expensive and problematic than bussses
19:05<Supercheese>time for shameless plug
19:05<Supercheese>Fake Subways newgrf
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19:06<Diablo-D3>btw, I guess subways will never make it into openttd
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19:06<Supercheese>It attempts to combine the best of both worlds within current OTTD limitations
19:07<Supercheese>Visuals that look like subways but are actually coded as road vehicles
19:07<Supercheese>Pros and cons are listed in the post there
19:08<Diablo-D3>yeah Im reading that now
19:11<Eddi|zuHause>i'm usually using trams
19:11<Supercheese>which are essentially above-ground subways :P
19:11<Supercheese>as oxymoronic as that phrase is
19:12<Eddi|zuHause>or on-rail-busses?
19:12<Supercheese>Indeed, setting the parameter to make fake subways trams, they behave nearly identically except for speed, capacity, etc.
19:12<Eddi|zuHause>or on-road-ish-trains?
19:13<Supercheese>still waiting on roadtypes
19:13<Eddi|zuHause>or maybe they are on-ground-planes?
19:13<Supercheese>so I can abuse the crap out of them
19:13<Eddi|zuHause>Supercheese: they would still miss a tram-subway-connector piece
19:14<Supercheese>Yeah, only depots could do that
19:14<Supercheese>and even then visual-only I suspect
19:14<Supercheese>unless powered roadtypes could change with cargo subtype
19:15<Supercheese>trains don't have that callback currently, it seems
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19:16<Eddi|zuHause>no, you can only change the power, not the powered-state
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19:16<Eddi|zuHause>which would confuse the hell out of the pathfinder
19:17<Eddi|zuHause>powered-ness is a property of the railtype, not the vehicle, anyway
19:17<Supercheese>ah, yes, just seeing that now
19:17<toobored`>I see. I hit a nerve..
---Logclosed Wed Jun 18 19:23:22 2014
---Logopened Wed Jun 18 19:23:31 2014
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19:30<toobored`>Diablo-D3: will give that a 3
19:30<toobored`>a try
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20:09<Diablo-D3>opengfx big gui
20:10<Diablo-D3>all I had to do was add it to newgrf-static right?
20:10<Eddi|zuHause>although the format may have changed
20:10<Eddi|zuHause>and it won't work in the title screen
20:11<Eddi|zuHause>the title screen is initialized before newgrfs can be accessed
20:11<Eddi|zuHause>thus they can't be active in the title screen
20:12<Diablo-D3>it doesnt make the font bigger?
20:12<Eddi|zuHause>fonts are separate
20:13<Diablo-D3>how do I do that one?
20:14<Eddi|zuHause>by reading the wiki
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---Logclosed Thu Jun 19 00:00:09 2014