| --- | Log | opened Sat Jun 21 00:00:13 2014 |
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| 03:02 | <@planetmaker> | moin |
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| 04:28 | <supermop> | hi |
| 04:28 | <@planetmaker> | o/ |
| 04:30 | <supermop> | should make an industry set where every cargo is just 'containers' |
| 04:31 | <supermop> | and every industry accepts containers to produce containers |
| 04:31 | <@planetmaker> | for better effect call the cargo 'stuff' |
| 04:31 | <supermop> | i guess you need a container mine to get stared |
| 04:31 | <@planetmaker> | containers are just the packaging unit it is shipped in |
| 04:31 | <supermop> | started |
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| 04:34 | <V453000> | or Closed Goods |
| 04:34 | <Wolf01> | hello o/ |
| 04:34 | <V453000> | never to be seen in the Closed wagons (: |
| 04:36 | <supermop> | better yet full pallets+empty container -> full container |
| 04:39 | <supermop> | stuff+empty pallets -> factory -> full pallets, full pallets+empty container -> warehouse -> full containers -> distribution center -> mail + empty pallets + empty continers |
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| 04:39 | <supermop> | then you take the empty containers and pallets to be building materials for trendy modern restaurants and homes |
| 04:40 | <Diablo-D3> | heh, I just did 8000 pop on btpro.nl in 5 years. |
| 04:41 | <supermop> | and amazon drones take the mail from distribution center to houses |
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| 10:24 | <andythenorth> | o/ |
| 10:25 | <@Alberth> | hi hi |
| 10:26 | <andythenorth> | drones are a missing cargo type |
| 10:26 | <andythenorth> | and the PIPE grf seems pretty good so far |
| 10:26 | <andythenorth> | the engines are weirdly presented though |
| 10:27 | <andythenorth> | coloured letters used freely |
| 10:27 | <@Alberth> | like meow :) |
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| 10:29 | <andythenorth> | he uses low capacity, high speed engines |
| 10:29 | <andythenorth> | works ok |
| 10:29 | <andythenorth> | I’d probably have used super-high-capacity, low speed |
| 10:29 | <andythenorth> | but I guess he knows what he’s doing |
| 10:30 | <V453000> | that guess is wrong on so many levels andythenorth :P |
| 10:30 | <andythenorth> | V453000: fancy making a pipeline grf with me? o_O |
| 10:31 | * | andythenorth wonders if V approves of pipelines |
| 10:31 | <@Alberth> | we need a powerline anyway :) |
| 10:32 | <@Alberth> | although yetis may not approve of stealing their batteries |
| 10:32 | <andythenorth> | and have power stations produce electricity? |
| 10:33 | <@Alberth> | http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1123531#p1123531 |
| 10:33 | <Pikka> | articulated electricity! |
| 10:33 | <andythenorth> | articulated electric ships! |
| 10:35 | <andythenorth> | articulated road types, with newgrf fields |
| 10:35 | <andythenorth> | underground |
| 10:36 | <andythenorth> | I should try and fix grfcodec :| |
| 10:37 | <andythenorth> | I found some stuff I didn’t understand about compiling some C++ things against the 10.6 std-lib |
| 10:37 | <andythenorth> | which might be unrelated, and I don’t know how to do it anyway |
| 10:37 | <Eddi|zuHause> | that's always a good start to know what you don't know |
| 10:38 | <andythenorth> | it would take a long time to enumerate all the things I know I don’t know |
| 10:38 | <andythenorth> | we don’t have that long :( |
| 10:38 | <V453000> | I have no clue wtf to do with pipelines andy |
| 10:38 | <V453000> | or what do you mean by it |
| 10:38 | <andythenorth> | have you tried PIPE? |
| 10:39 | <andythenorth> | makes oil transport less boring |
| 10:40 | <V453000> | no |
| 10:40 | <V453000> | well I looked at the trains it gives |
| 10:40 | <andythenorth> | hmm I could ro-ro it |
| 10:41 | <andythenorth> | would make more sense than terminals with signalled passing loops |
| 10:41 | <V453000> | aha this shit |
| 10:41 | <V453000> | idk, nothing to look at there? |
| 10:41 | <V453000> | if it at least looked nice |
| 10:42 | <V453000> | But I do believe the idea could be interpreted nicely |
| 10:43 | <V453000> | I would probably make something like "canals" though, so the "cargo inside" can be seen |
| 10:43 | <andythenorth> | the signals are bad |
| 10:43 | <V453000> | mhm |
| 10:43 | <andythenorth> | I think it could be improved |
| 10:43 | <andythenorth> | there’s no point doing realistic |
| 10:43 | <andythenorth> | the signals should be arrows on the ground |
| 10:43 | <andythenorth> | and the trains should be visible |
| 10:43 | <andythenorth> | I am trying to rebuild a route and I’m inevitably going to have a crash |
| 10:44 | <V453000> | yes :) |
| 10:44 | <V453000> | creating something like trenches in the ground with -thing- filling them could look great |
| 10:44 | <V453000> | Could. :) |
| 10:44 | <V453000> | probably requires some offset wtfing |
| 10:45 | <V453000> | bridges would be very wtf |
| 10:45 | <V453000> | tunnels just as much |
| 10:45 | <V453000> | ok then pipe above ground :D can be like a square half-pipe |
| 10:45 | -!- | luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck |
| 10:45 | <V453000> | and trains are just bricks of -liquid- |
| 10:45 | <V453000> | would actually not be very hard or long to draw |
| 10:46 | <V453000> | if you help me code yeti, I will help you draw your pipe :) |
| 10:48 | <Eddi|zuHause> | get a room... |
| 10:49 | <V453000> | : D |
| 10:49 | <V453000> | not like we are disturbing any other communication |
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| 11:53 | <mist> | if i place an airport between two cities but both of them are inside the purple "coverage" squares, will it give delivered goods to both cities or only one? |
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| 12:03 | <frosch123> | only the town it is named after |
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| 12:22 | <Eddi|zuHause> | it's the default name that counts, so renaming does not help |
| 12:23 | <Eddi|zuHause> | what does help is building a bus station in the town you desire the target and then connecting the airport to it (via ctrl+click) |
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| 13:45 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by translators :: r26659 trunk/src/lang/catalan.txt (2014-06-21 17:45:12 UTC) |
| 13:45 | <@DorpsGek> | -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: |
| 13:45 | <@DorpsGek> | catalan - 31 changes by juanjo |
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| 13:55 | <Argensis> | Hey, anyone know what "You can't build a railway station here" with no cause listed could be caused by? |
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| 14:00 | <@planetmaker> | Argensis, many things... are there slopes? are all tiles clear? |
| 14:00 | <@planetmaker> | water? |
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| 14:01 | <Argensis> | Blank grass tiles, just outside a city where I have a very good rating |
| 14:01 | <Argensis> | Tried a few more things and it seems to be just one station set which won't let me (the city stations grf) |
| 14:02 | <Argensis> | I guess it must have some restriction on dates or something. |
| 14:02 | <@planetmaker> | newgrfs can require certain sizes. And possibly other things |
| 14:02 | <@planetmaker> | like dates or whatever. dunno |
| 14:02 | <@planetmaker> | ask the grf author what requirements a certain station has |
| 14:02 | <@planetmaker> | maybe it has a readme which explains stuff? |
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| 14:12 | <Argensis> | As far as I can tell, tht's on the author's wiki which has ceased to exist |
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| 14:24 | <MTsPony> | can someone here explain why faster moving trains increase cpu usage? when i enable wagon speed limits or replace trains with ones that are twice as slow, cpu usage drops in half. |
| 14:24 | <MTsPony> | strange thing is it only affects stuff visible |
| 14:25 | <MTsPony> | so it cant be the pathfinder since it doesnt have any effect if i move my camera out of train range |
| 14:26 | <MTsPony> | is it because trains redraw themselves more? |
| 14:28 | * | FLHerne can't think of another good reason |
| 14:31 | <@planetmaker> | seems likely. you can quickly test when you minimize openttd and observe cpu usage |
| 14:31 | <@planetmaker> | or just change window size. |
| 14:31 | <MTsPony> | yeh im pretty sure its the reason :( |
| 14:32 | <MTsPony> | can you guys implement a function so it reduces rhe drawing for faster trains? lol |
| 14:33 | <MTsPony> | skip drawing on every other frame :p |
| 14:33 | <@Rubidium> | not without making the trains seem behaving weirdly |
| 14:33 | <@Rubidium> | which would trigger bug reports |
| 14:33 | <MTsPony> | isnt it less noticable the higher speed the train goes? |
| 14:34 | <@planetmaker> | even more noticable. They will start jumping |
| 14:34 | <MTsPony> | wouldnt be to hard to make it an optional setting? |
| 14:35 | <@planetmaker> | Sorry, such setting, I don't think it makes sense |
| 14:36 | <MTsPony> | anything else apart from,disabling smoke and animations to reduce cpu usage? |
| 14:37 | <FLHerne> | MTsPony: Ships are still lag-inducing. Cargodist can eat quite a bit of CPU if enabled. |
| 14:37 | <MTsPony> | no |
| 14:37 | <MTsPony> | im talking about visuals on the screen |
| 14:37 | <@Rubidium> | are you using NewGRFs? |
| 14:37 | <@planetmaker> | zoom-in :) |
| 14:37 | <@Rubidium> | especially for trains? |
| 14:37 | <MTsPony> | well sure, |
| 14:37 | <FLHerne> | MTsPony: The less other stuff is using CPU time, the more time is available for the blitter to blit things |
| 14:38 | <MTsPony> | i am using alot of train grfs yeah, would that significantly increase cpu usage just by looking at em? |
| 14:38 | <@Rubidium> | if those use weird animation triggers or other stuff, that could mean OpenTTD has to ask/execute some NewGRF code for each and every time the train moves |
| 14:39 | <@Rubidium> | especially when changing direction |
| 14:39 | <MTsPony> | right, like some locos make animation right? |
| 14:39 | <MTsPony> | im not sure if the global setting also disables those,tho |
| 14:39 | <@Rubidium> | and we need to do those checks even when they are not drawn, because we a cache of the (viewport) location of vehicles is much more efficient than looping over every vehicle when trying to determine what to (re)draw |
| 14:40 | <MTsPony> | well my original question was more about the direct link to train speed and cpu isage |
| 14:41 | <MTsPony> | usage |
| 14:41 | <@Rubidium> | higher train speed -> more reasons to ask NewGRF certain things about the sprites of the train -> more CPU usage |
| 14:41 | <MTsPony> | mhh yeh good point i guess |
| 14:42 | <MTsPony> | do other clients on the same server have to do the same calcs? |
| 14:42 | <@planetmaker> | yes, all. and the server |
| 14:43 | <MTsPony> | rgr |
| 14:43 | <MTsPony> | tho, dosnt the dedicated server skip graphic business? |
| 14:44 | <@Rubidium> | nope |
| 14:44 | <MTsPony> | odd. |
| 14:44 | <MTsPony> | isnt that what the "dedicated" video driver is for? |
| 14:45 | <MTsPony> | i guess,that just means it doesnt render any screen output |
| 14:45 | <@Rubidium> | no |
| 14:45 | <MTsPony> | k |
| 14:45 | <@Rubidium> | it's to provide a binary that doesn't need a load of windowing system libraries to just run and not show anything |
| 14:45 | <MTsPony> | gotcha |
| 14:46 | <MTsPony> | last question then, why does the dedicated server refuse to run when i set the resolution to 1,1 whereas 1,20 or somethinglike 13,13 stil works? lol |
| 14:49 | <MTsPony> | guess that question has no logical answer lol,thanks tho |
| 14:50 | <@Rubidium> | well, please answer it yourself |
| 14:50 | <@Rubidium> | as it works for me |
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| 14:55 | <andythenorth> | V453000: that was a nice room we went in |
| 14:55 | <andythenorth> | let’s do it again some time |
| 15:04 | <MTsPony> | what decides the spot for the camera when you load a game or join a server? i was under the impression it was stored in the savegame but i tried changing the spot,,save and load but it doesnt change |
| 15:04 | <MTsPony> | or is it decided by scenario editor only? |
| 15:04 | <frosch123> | top-left corner is stored |
| 15:05 | <frosch123> | when you join a game, the server defines it |
| 15:05 | <MTsPony> | any way to change it in an already running game? |
| 15:05 | <frosch123> | maybe rcon scrollto |
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| 15:06 | <MTsPony> | thanks illtry that |
| 15:13 | <andythenorth> | I actually know of no reason why Road Hog has that grfid |
| 15:13 | <andythenorth> | and as a satisfied customer of Canadian Stations, it seems a bit close |
| 15:27 | <@planetmaker> | grids can differ by one and it doesn't matter... |
| 15:28 | <@planetmaker> | thus any 'too close' is artificial at best |
| 15:29 | <andythenorth> | there is / was a convention of incrementing grfids |
| 15:29 | <andythenorth> | 81 / FE are pretty close |
| 15:30 | <@planetmaker> | @calc 0xFE - 0x81 |
| 15:30 | <@DorpsGek> | planetmaker: 125 |
| 15:30 | <@planetmaker> | room for quite a few. More than I care to write in my life |
| 15:30 | <andythenorth> | I dunno, Canadian stuff gets released pretty often... |
| 15:30 | <frosch123> | lol, are you differing in only one byte? :p |
| 15:31 | <andythenorth> | yes |
| 15:31 | <frosch123> | andythenorth: CA is deprecated, ozt uses a different prefix today |
| 15:31 | <frosch123> | there won't be no new |
| 15:31 | <frosch123> | what's the third byte? |
| 15:32 | <andythenorth> | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5rRZdiu1UE&feature=kp |
| 15:32 | <andythenorth> | turn it up |
| 15:32 | <Eddi|zuHause> | andythenorth: afair the reason for chosing this grfid was specifically this "i reserve 1 million GRFIDs that nobody else may use" crap |
| 15:32 | <andythenorth> | nah, that was Iron Horse |
| 15:32 | <andythenorth> | I reckon |
| 15:32 | <andythenorth> | this one smells of accident |
| 15:33 | <andythenorth> | trolling should be deliberate |
| 15:34 | <@planetmaker> | possibly I trolled you both by suggesting it |
| 15:34 | <@planetmaker> | but I don't recall |
| 15:34 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i'm pretty sure i took part in that discussion |
| 15:35 | <andythenorth> | someone read the logs |
| 15:35 | <andythenorth> | then I can comment the code :P |
| 15:35 | <andythenorth> | I searched my transcripts, but my client is crappy for search |
| 15:39 | <@planetmaker> | https://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3454/ |
| 15:40 | <Eddi|zuHause> | planetmaker: but that's not when it was decided? |
| 15:41 | <@planetmaker> | dunno when it was decided. I really go no clue |
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| 15:43 | <andythenorth> | at least we have something to talk about :P |
| 15:44 | <Eddi|zuHause> | this one seems to be about iron horse: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/date/2013-09-05?page=3 |
| 15:45 | <frosch123> | planetmaker: apparently that was the decision :) |
| 15:45 | <frosch123> | the grfid commit is 2014-03-09 20:53 |
| 15:46 | <frosch123> | ^^ eddi actually |
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| 15:49 | <FLHerne> | Huh, if I ever properly finish these pointless objects I'll actually have a valid reason to use a CAxx id :P |
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| 15:50 | <frosch123> | just put it into the specs: if you have no idea what grfid to use, make it start with CA :) |
| 15:50 | <fonsinchen> | It seems like OzTrans' move gave ideas to everyone |
| 15:50 | * | fonsinchen gets chips and beer |
| 15:50 | <andythenorth> | oh it’s frosch’s fault |
| 15:50 | <frosch123> | nah, too boring |
| 15:50 | <andythenorth> | I see |
| 15:51 | <frosch123> | really? |
| 15:51 | <frosch123> | what did i do? |
| 15:51 | <andythenorth> | suggested CA because Dan is Canadian |
| 15:51 | <frosch123> | ah, that one |
| 15:51 | <andythenorth> | the nice thing is that everyone automatically assumed I was trolling |
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| 15:52 | <@DorpsGek> | Commit by fonsinchen :: r26660 trunk/src/cargopacket.h (2014-06-21 19:52:52 UTC) |
| 15:52 | <@DorpsGek> | -Fix: CargoPacket::SourceStation() returns a StationID. |
| 15:54 | <Eddi|zuHause> | sometimes the time is just right for everything to come together :) |
| 15:54 | <Eddi|zuHause> | half a year earlier the outcome probably would have been entirely different |
| 15:55 | <andythenorth> | PIPE should offer two sizes of pipeline :P |
| 15:55 | <andythenorth> | this one isn’t big enough |
| 15:55 | <Eddi|zuHause> | andythenorth: anyway, the answer for that question "it's a joke, but i have no clue what it is" apparently is: "CA" for being CA, and 1830 as the start year |
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| 15:56 | <andythenorth> | I updated the comment in code ;) |
| 15:56 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i still think BCD would have been better... |
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| 16:08 | <andythenorth> | PIPE is my new favourite thing |
| 16:09 | <LordAro> | | |
| 16:12 | <Eddi|zuHause> | there was a disturbance in the force |
| 16:13 | <frosch123> | laser pipe? |
| 16:14 | <FLHerne> | ten-foot laser pole, wasn't it? |
| 16:14 | <andythenorth> | http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=61644&hilit=PIPE |
| 16:15 | <andythenorth> | did anyone make a new Silicon Valley yet? |
| 16:15 | <frosch123> | oh, didn't know that actually made it into a grf |
| 16:15 | <andythenorth> | frosch123: it did, and it’s surprisingly good |
| 16:15 | <andythenorth> | I was prepared to disdain it :P |
| 16:16 | <andythenorth> | so that answers all future requests for pipelines |
| 16:16 | <andythenorth> | it would also work for electricity too |
| 16:16 | <andythenorth> | but that’s a BAD FEATURE |
| 16:16 | <Eddi|zuHause> | andythenorth: it's the perfect thing for a rondje-style network |
| 16:17 | <andythenorth> | rondje? |
| 16:17 | <andythenorth> | I just get cycling in Holland |
| 16:17 | <andythenorth> | :P |
| 16:19 | <Eddi|zuHause> | andythenorth: buy the vehicle at one end, and sell it on the other end after unloading |
| 16:19 | <andythenorth> | he |
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| 16:21 | <andythenorth> | I would definitely definitely look for ‘Share orders’ under the ‘Go to’ dropdown |
| 16:22 | <Eddi|zuHause> | in any case, i think it's the wrong way to implement pipelines. pipelines aren't fast, they are slow, but each time something is pushed in one end, somethhing comes out at the other end |
| 16:22 | <frosch123> | how unrealistic |
| 16:22 | <Eddi|zuHause> | also, i think it's better as roadtype |
| 16:23 | <andythenorth> | yes, we have lots of those spare |
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| 16:24 | <Eddi|zuHause> | now this force thing is just disturbing |
| 16:25 | <@Rubidium> | ... but... when you push something in, it won't come out until after a delay |
| 16:25 | <@Rubidium> | after all, the pressure wave needs to propagate |
| 16:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Rubidium: sure, but my point is the actual cargo doesn't travel nearly as fast as the pressure wave |
| 16:28 | <@Rubidium> | though you can model the the input to output delay by using fast vehicles |
| 16:28 | <andythenorth> | and gameplay…? :P |
| 16:29 | <@Rubidium> | in a sense it's all a black box and you don't need to care about the internal implementation |
| 16:29 | <Eddi|zuHause> | Rubidium: it does significantly affect the payment curve |
| 16:30 | <andythenorth> | I think he has it about right with fast vehicles |
| 16:30 | <andythenorth> | I would have done slow, but it would be boring |
| 16:31 | <Eddi|zuHause> | slow definitely collides with the railway system, signals, junctions, etc. |
| 16:32 | <andythenorth> | I think his implementation is quite nice |
| 16:32 | <andythenorth> | the graphics for signals are horrible |
| 16:33 | <andythenorth> | and there are too many incremental upgrades to engines |
| 16:34 | <@planetmaker> | pipes should not have upgrades really, should they? |
| 16:34 | <andythenorth> | he upgrades the ‘pumps’ (trains) |
| 16:34 | <@planetmaker> | well, maybe... yeah |
| 16:34 | <andythenorth> | more HP etc |
| 16:34 | <andythenorth> | valid |
| 16:36 | <Eddi|zuHause> | there may be a case for introducing a junction-less pipeline network type, for oil, electricity, cable cars, etc. |
| 16:36 | <andythenorth> | maybe |
| 16:36 | <andythenorth> | I proposed ‘continuous flow’ years ago |
| 16:36 | <andythenorth> | now I sound like MB :) |
| 16:37 | <andythenorth> | one day I will be MB |
| 16:37 | <Eddi|zuHause> | ski lifts |
| 16:37 | <@Alberth> | it worked in TTDPatch flawlessly |
| 16:38 | <andythenorth> | no junctions = no depots |
| 16:38 | <Eddi|zuHause> | whenever a <capacity unit> amount at the loading station is available, all entities on the pipe are pushed along on the pipeline |
| 16:38 | <andythenorth> | Eddi|zuHause: sounds nice :) |
| 16:38 | <Eddi|zuHause> | basically each loading step. |
| 16:39 | <andythenorth> | one in, one out |
| 16:39 | <Eddi|zuHause> | question is what happens when during a loading step, the amount is not available |
| 16:39 | <Eddi|zuHause> | push an empty unit, or don't push? |
| 16:42 | <andythenorth> | push |
| 16:42 | <andythenorth> | otherwise networks block horribly |
| 16:42 | <andythenorth> | or add network segments or something |
| 16:42 | <andythenorth> | can’t think what benefit segments have |
| 16:47 | <Eddi|zuHause> | you make segments by putting a pumping station inbetween |
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| 16:52 | <andythenorth> | frosch123: for the record, SV with FIRS Arctic Basic, Manufacturing Supplies |
| 16:52 | <andythenorth> | is a good combo |
| 16:53 | <frosch123> | yay, a happy customer :) |
| 16:54 | <andythenorth> | it has just the right degree of connectedness in the cargos |
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| 17:16 | <andythenorth> | night |
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| 18:14 | <__ln__> | http://gizmodo.com/the-1983-punk-rock-record-with-a-digital-music-video-fo-1594269981 |
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| 18:18 | <Eddi|zuHause> | back then there were actually radio shows that transmitted computer programs. which you could record on tape and then load into the computer |
| 18:19 | <Eddi|zuHause> | but that was way before my time... |
| 18:23 | <__ln__> | there were, yes... (and was before my time too). but the most shocking thing about it is that there were radioshows about programming computers. |
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| 18:25 | <Eddi|zuHause> | well, then there were tv shows, and then youtube videos, and... |
| 18:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | nowadays i keep thinking how did anyone ever get work done without googling how to do it first... |
| 18:28 | <__ln__> | yeah, any work |
| 18:28 | <Wolf01> | 'night all |
| 18:28 | <Eddi|zuHause> | funny bit on the side: i learned HTML before i ever went on the internet |
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| 18:29 | <@Alberth> | Eddi|zuHause: we used to read books :) |
| 18:29 | <@Alberth> | and man pages :p |
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| 18:30 | <Taede> | and 'wonder what this does' |
| 18:30 | <Taede> | lets try it |
| 18:30 | <@Alberth> | if it looked harmless enough, yeah :) |
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| 18:31 | <Eddi|zuHause> | it's a red button labeled "don't press this", what could possiblygo wrong... |
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| 21:00 | <Eddi|zuHause> | oh nightly database backup, i wonder why we haven't met in quite a while |
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| --- | Log | closed Sun Jun 22 00:00:15 2014 |