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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-06-29

---Logopened Sun Jun 29 00:00:27 2014
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00:47<ccfreak2k>Also I just realized that I think updating gcc broke my multilib.
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02:39<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: we should all do that and bankrupt those companies ;)
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05:15<@Alberth>moin, 1st wolf
05:15<Wolf01>hello :D
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09:04<DigitalFox>Good afternoon :)
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09:22<@Alberth>o/
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09:49<DigitalFox>What's the originals OpenTTD Fonts? Small: Arial? Medium: Times New Roman? Large:?
09:50<frosch123>neither
09:50<frosch123>they are custom sprite fonts from the baseset
09:53<DigitalFox>No way of increasing it's size?
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09:53<Eddi|zuHause>no, you can only increase size of system fonts, not of the builtin font
09:53<DigitalFox>ok
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11:44<trendynick>I browsed the wiki & I thought to note http://archivewiki.fifengine.net/Special:Contributions/Trendy & http://i.imgur.com/ZnQLK.gif & http://logs.fifengine.net/#fife/#fife.2013-01-21.log
11:46<frosch123>are you sure about the channel?
11:47<DigitalFox>I was about to ask the same question :\ But then I noticed: FIFE stands for Flexible Isometric Free Engine and is a cross platform game creation framework.
11:47<trendynick>yes
11:47<frosch123>afaik it is mainly used in unknown horizons
11:47<DigitalFox>Maybe he's refering to the use of FIFE on OpenTTD
11:47<frosch123>which is not exactly openttd :p
11:47<trendynick>only the wiki... the rest is not revelant
11:51<DigitalFox>Not directly to you trendynick, but sometimes here and in the forum I read people suggesting rewriting or adapting massive parts of OTTD to another language, or framework, or etc.. Do people realize even just a bit the amount of work, time and energy that requires?
11:52<frosch123>resp. that it would be a different game :p
11:53<trendynick>I did not even played openttd... but as I wrote this is only about the wiki
11:53<frosch123>DigitalFox: anyway, i think trendy is linking to a wiki-enhancement suggestion from fife, which e thinks is applicable to ottd wiki as well
11:53<frosch123>though i do not understand why
11:54<DigitalFox>trendynick: So if you don't/ever played openttd how are you aware of it?
11:55<trendynick>documentation of a game is the same as metadata activity
11:56<trendynick>i do not play - not compatible? - tyccon genre
11:57<Eddi|zuHause>we have a wiki, what's your point?
11:58<trendynick>those modification apply to openttd wiki, too
11:59<@Alberth>trendynick: the only relevant part of "tycoon" in OpenTTD is "you have lots and lots and lots of money". So much, it is not interesting to play for making money
11:59<frosch123>the ottd wiki is mainly the manual. all other information on it are either personal, or unmaintained cruft that noone bothers to delete
11:59<Eddi|zuHause>i find it impossible to see anything of relevance in the links
11:59<trendynick>I am not that much of a gamer, maybe I'll play it later (as with other gaming activity)
12:00<trendynick>wait to close some browser windows...
12:00<frosch123>so, you are a free agent, who offers random projects recommendations on wiki restructuring :p
12:00<@Alberth>frosch123: some of that cruft is considered to be "archive", which makes it somewhat hazardous to remove old stuff :)
12:00<DigitalFox>frosch123: lol
12:01<frosch123>what do you take per page?
12:01<Rubidium>Alberth: that's what web.archive.org is for ;)
12:01<frosch123>Alberth: problem is, that esp. the dev stuff on it is mostly wrong/outdated, and every now and then some unlucky fool tries to update it
12:02<trendynick>openttd or fifengine?
12:02<frosch123>trendynick: in case you wondered, ottd does not use fife
12:03<trendynick>repeating: documentation of a game is the same as metadata activity
12:04<@Alberth>trendynick: yes, but what is the point?
12:04<@Alberth>we don't understand what you want
12:04<frosch123>Alberth: considering the main topics on main page: "manual" is fine, "development" is bollocks, "graphics development" is bollocks, "help with docs" ok fine, "help" is already on community page, "player resouces" either silly stuff from people who do not use bananas, or already on community
12:04<@Alberth>or what you try to tell us
12:04<trendynick>eg. http://archivewiki.fifengine.net/index.php?title=Release_packaging&oldid=13455
12:05<frosch123>Alberth: oh, wait, actualyl the "todo for releases" is something i actually use :p
12:05<@Alberth>trendynick: what should I learn from that page?
12:06<trendynick>use of templates (see source)
12:06<Rubidium>frosch123: except that the release section is horribly outdated ;)
12:07<@Alberth>trendynick: why should I learn about templates? I know what they are
12:07<frosch123>someone already figure out what "metadata activity" is?
12:08*Rubidium wonders where this is leading... anyhow, "metadata activity" seems to be dead (last modification in 2002)
12:08<trendynick>http://archivewiki.fifengine.net/Help:Custom standardized look (productivity improvement)
12:08<trendynick>or easier on new users... less questions
12:08<@Alberth>trendynick: not possible, we already have 0 questions
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12:09<trendynick>then wiki's traffic is too low
12:09<trendynick>or usefulness
12:09<Rubidium>if you can't count the questions, then you got different issues
12:11<trendynick>"metadata activity" activity that only involves metadata, independent of data (but also independent of other metadata use)
12:12<Rubidium>but yes, an average of ~20k hits an hours is too low
12:14<Rubidium>oh... metadata activity got superseded by semantic web activity about 13.5 years ago
12:15<Rubidium>and even semantic web activity is already "dead" given the fact that they state the page about it has been frozen
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12:17<trendynick>collapsable tables on openttd's wiki?
12:18<Rubidium>also I wonder how templates will improve the openttd equivalent of fife's release packaging page
12:20<trendynick>Rubidium: I'm still processing [19:09:45] <Rubidium> if you can't count the questions, then you got different issues
12:20<trendynick>for last one...
12:27<trendynick>I do not find what openttd use similar to http://archivewiki.fifengine.net/index.php?title=Developer_activity
12:31<Rubidium>what's the point of collapsing the table in the developer activity page?
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12:32<LordAro>also incorrect: http://wiki.openttd.org/Developers
12:32<trendynick>I did not meant those together...
12:32<Rubidium>also... why are the HTML entity codes for the activity symbols before the table? That "page editor" help makes no sense to any normal user
12:32<Rubidium>also... what's the definition of retired and/or inactive?
12:32<Rubidium>or semi-active for that matter
12:33<Rubidium>now... sortable tables... that's more useful than collapsible tables
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12:33<LordAro>Rubidium, for ottd, it's as listed in the readme, iirc
12:33<trendynick>retired will never contribute again, inactive (might contribute again)
12:34<frosch123>so, "retired" means "dead"?
12:34<frosch123>usually we do not know about that
12:34<LordAro>yes.
12:34<LordAro>:p
12:34<Rubidium>but... dead people might still contribute
12:35<frosch123>you mean something like the grandchildren composing a cd with the 100 greatest patches?
12:35<Rubidium>in any case... TrueBrain retired, but he did contribute again
12:35<trendynick>ctrl+F is usually more important than sortable tables, like i wrote in the noted log file spreadsheets is for sorting games data (or custom solution)
12:35<Rubidium>frosch123: exactly ;)
12:35<Rubidium>sorting the developers page on when they joined is quite useful
12:36<LordAro>Rubidium, as i recall, he vetoed an attempt to make him "active" again :p
12:36<trendynick>that is only fif+UH+zero (less than 30 developers always terminology)
12:36<frosch123>Rubidium: it's actually impressive that it sorts the "pre" correctly
12:37<LordAro>frosch123, you're welcome :p
12:37<trendynick>wactually only development environment is usefull, code repository is for code contribution
12:37<frosch123>LordAro: ah, you enteres dom white fake stuff :p
12:37<LordAro>yup :D
12:37<LordAro>found the suggestion somewhere else, iirc
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12:38*LordAro updates the commit count
12:39<Rubidium>the really sad thing about the commit count is the 'fact' that it will take another two years for the r30k party
12:40<frosch123>maybe we should count the lines of irc chat instead
12:41<Rubidium>after all, we'll pass the ⎡25k + (5k/3)⎤ marker soon
12:42<frosch123>like today?
12:42<Rubidium>63 minutes
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12:43<frosch123>praise the afrikaans translator :)
12:44<LordAro>:D
12:46<LordAro>i have to say, an "environment" column would probably be useful/interesting
12:46<frosch123>what's that?
12:46<Rubidium>can mine say s390?
12:46<frosch123>we changed topic so often in the past hour that i cannot tell :p
12:46<Rubidium>oh... and DOS ;)
12:46<LordAro>Rubidium, yours would be "everything" :p
12:47<trendynick>as you have significantly more resources than switching to github what about http://archivewiki.fifengine.net/Help:Maintainance
12:47<Rubidium>okay then !OSX
12:47<LordAro>Rubidium, well, quite :)
12:48-!-Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-162.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd
12:48<LordAro>a Zuu!
12:48<Zuu>a Lord!
12:48<LordAro>where?!
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12:56<Rubidium>Orion Spur?
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13:11<trendynick>also everything used on that wiki is for compatibility with github (eg. tables copy-pasted on github are static; UH transition was then)
13:11<trendynick>planet? http://planet.zero-projekt.net/
13:12<@planetmaker>g'evening
13:12<@Alberth>evenink planetmaker
13:12<frosch123>planetmaker: did you play with some physics again?
13:12<frosch123>there are some serious interferences with some parallel universe today
13:12<@planetmaker>of course. I tweaked some constants. Did the universe explode or collapse?
13:13<frosch123>otherwise i blame cern
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13:13<@planetmaker>(is there some reference / reason you ask?)
13:14<frosch123>apparently ottd is hosted on github, uses the fife engine, and has the resouces to pay a free agent to reformat the wiki
13:14<@planetmaker>cool
13:14<trendynick>also blame scrollback.io for not scrolling foward!
13:15<@planetmaker>I skimmed backlog briefly and didn't understand a word, tbh. The actual topic of the discussion still eludes me
13:15*Alberth wonders about the shortlist of wiki stuff to delete
13:15<frosch123>exactly :)
13:15<frosch123>planetmaker: that's all the state of everyone participating in it :)
13:15<@planetmaker>kk. Then I don't feel bad about it anymore :)
13:16<@Alberth>planetmaker: not yet used to shifting of parallel universes ? :)
13:17<@planetmaker>I'm afraid, no. That's only a feature in an experimental branch and should not yet have been released to general public
13:17<@planetmaker>due to possible interferences...
13:17<trendynick>the 3 links were to be read without my intervention (browsing random *reverted* contribution from wiki)
13:17<trendynick> the 1st message
13:18<Rubidium>Alberth: https://wiki.openttd.org/Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Delete <- stuff to delete ;)
13:19*trendynick excuses his "contribution"
13:19<@planetmaker>frosch123, you confused me even more :)
13:19<@planetmaker>trendynick, as a newcomer to the discussion, what do you try to 'sell' or tell us?
13:20*Alberth thinks fifi wiki engine
13:20<Rubidium>Alberth: or rather https://wiki.openttd.org/Category:Requests_for_deletion I guess
13:20<@planetmaker>what's a "wiki engine"?
13:20<trendynick>wiki redesign in a lot more words (because I do not have time to be involved in it, only some conversation)
13:22<trendynick>on the "marketing material" one I had plenty of request for deletion...
13:22<@Alberth>planetmaker: a piece of software, that allows display and editing of wiki pages through the world wide web interface
13:23<trendynick>http://archivewiki.fifengine.net/DeleteFromWiki & bla bla
13:23<frosch123>seriously, are you aware this is not the channel for fife nor open horizons?
13:23<trendynick>I was being ironic
13:23<@planetmaker>eh... indeed I fail to see any relevance wrt OpenTTD
13:24<@planetmaker>can you frame me in where you see that, trendynick ?
13:24<trendynick>irony/design/... ?
13:25<frosch123>did you read the story about the bot that passed the turing test?
13:25<@planetmaker>I did with great joy
13:25*trendynick will write a pastebin link...
13:27<@planetmaker>trendynick, I think if you want to work on our wiki, sure, go ahead. If you want to suggest to buy some service for wiki, not happening.
13:27<trendynick>it was irony, anything is gpl/epl compatible
13:27<trendynick>& no price
13:28<@planetmaker>so, can you answer the simple question "what do you want to sell or tell us"?
13:28<@planetmaker>by not pasting a link, but explaining it in a few words here?
13:30<trendynick>~10m ago: wiki redesign in a lot more words (because I do not have time to be involved in it, only some conversation)
13:31<Rubidium>so the whole conversation is completely pointless
13:31<@planetmaker>trendynick, and what's the point of the re-design?
13:31<@planetmaker>a re-design without a purpose or gain is pointless and tedious
13:31<trendynick>minimal redesign
13:31<@Alberth>get less questions then 0 :)
13:31<Rubidium>I won't do X, but you should do X and I will spend a lot of time telling you that you should do X
13:32<trendynick>mediawiki changes are the same, that is its selling point
13:32<@planetmaker>I guess we get the questions here and occasionally some by IRC
13:32<@planetmaker>But I guess we can handle that. And there's forums, of course
13:33<trendynick>they can be found on the "marketing material" if you want to see it as that (it is mostly the same)
13:33<@planetmaker>so, what is lacking and what would be the changes?
13:34<trendynick>*(the code it is mostly the same)
13:34<@planetmaker>the user-visible changes, I mean
13:34<@planetmaker>as only that matters de-facto
13:35<trendynick>yes, those are the only one that matter <- this is all about (time & productivity)
13:36<trendynick>http://archivewiki.fifengine.net/Help for users
13:36<@Alberth>trendynick: I think you have a very wrong picture of our goal of the wiki
13:37<trendynick>http://archivewiki.fifengine.net/Help:Maintainance for administrators of metadata
13:37<Rubidium>so... now 6 people have already "wasted" 2 hours each, together with the amount of work for the wiki I doubt there will be a break even point soon for the amount of time we would need to spend on people not finding stuff on the wiki
13:37<trendynick>code repositories and relevant sections for developers
13:37<@planetmaker>trendynick, that's a lot of links... and they don't seem to answer my question. Can you? What will change with out wiki? What has to change to improve its usefulness for our users?
13:38<@Alberth>Rubidium: It's good entertainment while having dinner :)
13:38<@planetmaker>*nom nom*. Indeed eating right now
13:38<trendynick>if it is only for users: end of discussion (it is a waste of time! It will always be!)
13:38<@planetmaker>our wiki needs minimal administration
13:39<@planetmaker>we can't gain more efficiency there
13:39<Rubidium>even then, most of the wiki is maintained by users that are NOT on IRC
13:39<trendynick>if minimal administration does not means scripts = minimal usefulness wiki
13:39<@planetmaker>we could gain possibly by proper automated cross-linking of different language versions.
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13:43<trendynick>maybe only the developers page should be changed for now with ideas from the other wiki
13:43<@planetmaker>what should be on that page?
13:43<@planetmaker>and who should put that info there?
13:44<trendynick>build environments, timezone
13:44<@planetmaker>(and what's the developer's page?)
13:44<@Alberth>unknown, not seen on the IRC channel for about a month <-- I like that comment, clearly fully up to date :)
13:44<trendynick>http://archivewiki.fifengine.net/index.php?title=Developer_activity
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26667 /trunk/src/lang (afrikaans.txt slovak.txt) (2014-06-29 17:45:25 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<trendynick>activity can be scripted by bots from commits
13:45<@DorpsGek>afrikaans - 30 changes by mulderpf
13:45<@DorpsGek>slovak - 9 changes by Milsa
13:47<@planetmaker>http://www.openttd.org/en/contact anyone?
13:48<trendynick>usefull for new coders, ocasional patch contributors..
13:48<Rubidium>why does it matter for new coders whether I use Windows, Linux or DOS?
13:48*trendynick will not dare to mention testers on free projects
13:50<frosch123>but it matters that "kudr" is assigned to "yapf (pbs)" and planetmaker to "maxosx"
13:50<@planetmaker>hmpf :)
13:50<Rubidium>but kudr didn't even make pbs, did he?
13:50<Rubidium>and does planetmaker still use a osx desktop on a daily basis?
13:50<@planetmaker>hm, maybe an earlier incarnation? Dunno, was before my time
13:51<Rubidium>the earlier pbs was way before kudr
13:51<@planetmaker>pm uses it... but much less than before. I'd need a new OSX one to enjoy using it. It's too laggy
13:52<Rubidium>just like I wonder whether vurlix is really the second most important contributor
13:52<Rubidium>(who's the most important one?)
13:53<@planetmaker>you?
13:53<frosch123>or ludde :)
13:53<@planetmaker>one or the other
13:53<frosch123>no idea what vurlix actually did, but not being ludde and leaving up to 0.3.2...
13:53*Alberth votes for both
13:54<Eddi|zuHause>KUDr came here with the intention to re-do PBS, and started with rewriting the pathfinder, then he didn't actually get to do PBS
13:54<frosch123>and then someone else came and implemented it for the older pf :p
13:55<Eddi|zuHause>well, we did discontinue NTP in the meantime
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13:57<Rubidium>and OPF
13:58<Rubidium>at least for trains ;)
13:58<LordAro>again, based on readme or what was already there :p
13:59<@DorpsGek>Commit by rubidium :: r26668 /branches/1.4 (65 files in 4 dirs) (2014-06-29 17:58:58 UTC)
13:59<@DorpsGek>[1.4] -Backport from trunk:
13:59<@DorpsGek>- Fix: Days in dates are not represented by ordinal numbers in all languages [FS#6047]
13:59<@DorpsGek>- Language updates
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14:00<trendynick>for game manual, how far from LaTeX generation (both html/wiki & pdf) is the community?
14:00<frosch123>about a lightyear
14:01<@planetmaker>yeah, true for most, I guess
14:01<Rubidium>at an as of yet unspecified medium
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14:07<trendynick>the sprite are generated by blender? to me they (only terrain?) appear unintuitive angles (details cropped by algorithm)
14:08<@planetmaker>the sprites are hand-drawn or generated by blender or by 3dsx or by gimp scripting or by custom python scripts. Whatever the authors use
14:09<trendynick>overall the look is stable but this seem too obvious
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14:38*frosch123 got too annoyed about the weird contributor list
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14:39<frosch123>i edited the wiki, someone wants to make a diff?
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14:50<@planetmaker>oh, diff for src/ ?
14:50<@planetmaker>can do
14:50<frosch123>readme and about menu or something
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14:50<frosch123>iirc it uses a completely different layout, including other credits of varying relevance
14:51<@planetmaker>I'll see
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15:03<trendynick>the right-mouse pressed is DOS games behaviour or other reason? scrooling to direction, not turning pages of map by hand seems to limit planning
15:04<trendynick>tracks "pops" at start, otherwise are ok
15:05<Zuu>IIRC there is an advanced setting to invert map scrolling.
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15:07<Eddi|zuHause>you can scroll by arrow keys, by right mouse click, or by touching the border (if enabled in settings, not default)
15:08<frosch123>you can also scroll by left-click or mouse wheels if enabled
15:08<frosch123>there are about 5 settings about scrolling
15:09<trendynick>most advanced players play with the default?
15:09<Eddi|zuHause>nobody has statistics about this
15:09<frosch123>it is generally safe to assume that advanced players play with hotkeys and multiple mouse buttons
15:10<Eddi|zuHause>it is generally safe to assume that advanced players know how to change the default
15:11<Rubidium>well... changing the default is a whole different league than changing the setting ;)
15:13<trendynick>considering this is not a spam game as starcraft I would use the hand-scrooling (reverse from default), I doubt any other game compete with it on "death of deshidratation kills"
15:14<Eddi|zuHause>that sentence makes absolutely no sense
15:14<Zuu>Well, you could argue that hand scrolling is more common now due to touch screens. That would make sense.
15:15<frosch123>the default matches the default of the genre
15:15<frosch123>stuff like widelands does the same
15:15<trendynick>starcraft is a spam game! building economy is usually reverse as how to play with hotkeys
15:15<Rubidium>oh... and regarding the DOS thingy... that's what was most common when the origin of TTD was released
15:15<Rubidium>and for what it's worth... OpenTTD also runs on DOS: http://rbijker.net/openttd/misc/poc.png
15:15<Zuu>But well, for me the current default is useful as right clicking with my wacom pen will cause it work as a joystick and then the reverse scroll is just wrong.
15:16<trendynick>i asked because i don't remeber this type of games on DOS
15:16<Rubidium>regarding the patches section on that wiki page, how are the patch counts determined?
15:16<frosch123>Rubidium: grepping for name in commit message
15:16<Rubidium>cause arguably LordAro has 21
15:23<trendynick>for 480p I do not have anything to add, but on bigger resolution, map with zoom can be placed in a corner & other UI improvements but I'll expect it when fonforge will look curent software
15:24<LordAro>:D
15:25<LordAro>Rubidium, clearly i should get commit access :p
15:25<frosch123>didn't you get it for freerct?
15:26<LordAro>indeed
15:27<@Alberth>he collects them :)
15:28<LordAro>gotta collect 'em all!
15:37<@planetmaker>http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/credits.diff <-- hm?
15:37<@planetmaker>I don't dare to call TB retired :P
15:38<@planetmaker>not sure I like the (from - till) time designations
15:40<Rubidium>0.4.8 for me?
15:40<@planetmaker>dunno?
15:40<@planetmaker>is it wrong?
15:41<frosch123>if you want to add the version numbers, remove the "pre-" stuff, or even minor versions, only branch names imho
15:41<@planetmaker>http://wiki.openttd.org/?title=Developers&oldid=84824
15:43<Rubidium>hmm... really that late
15:43<@planetmaker>with frosch's suggestion it's 0.4 :P
15:43<Rubidium>0.4.5 ;)
15:44<Rubidium>"it's difficult"
15:44<frosch123>planetmaker: technically 0.4.8 is a different branch :p
15:44<Rubidium>0.4.5-0.4.8 were branched off way after 0.4
15:44<Rubidium>.0
15:44<frosch123>but smatz and me also joined way before 0.6. we did not join with 0.6 but for 0.6
15:44<frosch123>so, rb would be 0.5 in that case
15:44<frosch123>or 0.4.8 if you count it as branch
15:45<frosch123>hmm, yes, i mean 0.4.5 as branch
15:45<Rubidium>there wasn't enough "new" stuff for the 0.4.5-ish branch to be called 0.5
15:45<Rubidium>that's the reason there are no 0.4.1-0.4.4
15:45<frosch123>maybe 0.4.5-0.4.7 could be considered RCs for 0.4.8 :p
15:46<frosch123>hmm, no, only 0.4.6/0.4.7 are the same
15:47<@planetmaker>let's see that as branch numbers where your code is integrated in. Then 0.6 is right
15:47<Eddi|zuHause>0.4.6 was the one with the depot disaster?
15:47<frosch123>planetmaker: real name for egladil is "Emil Djupfeldt" according to fs
15:48<@planetmaker>ah, thanks
15:48<Rubidium>@commit 4044
15:48<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: Commit by matthijs :: r4044 /branches (0.4.5/ 0.4/) (2006-03-22 22:38:29 UTC)
15:48<@DorpsGek>Rubidium: Rename 0.4.5 branch to 0.4. Further minor releases will be in the 0.4 range, to prevent enormously long version numbers.
15:48<Rubidium>0.4.5-0.4.8 all come from essentially the same branch
15:49<trendynick>known activity field with 2 subfields, start & end in that table; or dashed (you have one login for everything or not to have a script?)
15:49<trendynick>the script could be branch aware
15:49<@planetmaker>what?
15:49<frosch123>http://xkcd.com/1205/
15:50<@planetmaker>meh, you two have the same colour
15:51<trendynick>central signup page use a database with every openttd login?
15:51<@planetmaker>yes
15:51<@planetmaker>but there's only one login
15:52<trendynick>you can update once per day last activity of an user and use it in such tables
15:52<trendynick>^ can also be made branch aware on developer tables
15:52<trendynick>the script that use it
15:53<@planetmaker>frosch123, Rubidium so you want to differ the 0.4.5 branch instead of calling it 0.4?
15:54<@planetmaker>trendynick, and commits to branches are non-obvious as they're usually all done by one person. Which backports everything. Thus... the results will be pretty boring
15:54<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: 0.4.5 was really the first time the branch system was used, so calling it 0.4 should suffice?
15:54<frosch123>yeah: 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, 0.4, 0.4.5, 0.5, 0.6, 0.7, 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4
15:54<@planetmaker>k. So 0.4 and 0.4.5
15:55<trendynick>frosch123: with perfect memory & no sleep ...
15:55<frosch123>no, with logs
15:55<trendynick>planetmaker: that is why it could be usefull, who need obvious information?
15:56<Eddi|zuHause>but it was really a breaking point of development, so it should probably get a separate entry
15:58<@planetmaker>trendynick, a script will only ever return the time of the first and last commit. It will not return ever useful info from activity in branches
15:59<@planetmaker>only the sequential commit history in trunk gives the time span people are active. And that everyone can do quickly by the vcs tool of choice
15:59<trendynick>you can update once per day last activity of an user and use it in such tables -> login logs
16:00<frosch123>or you can link to ohloh
16:00<frosch123>or ask dorpsgek
16:00<frosch123>or ask the forums
16:01<frosch123>or reinvent the wheel
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>pr we can just say active/inactive based on activity over the last year?
16:04<trendynick>is there a need to separate active (by login logs) from contribution activity? I missed the evidence
16:05<@planetmaker>the difference is people can contribute by debugging, reviews, comments, even w/o commit
16:05<trendynick>why in the same table?
16:06<@planetmaker>and retired is officially announced to withdraw while inactive is disappeared w/o announcement. Basically
16:06<trendynick>on the same page depends on the project - I do not know on openttd
16:07<@planetmaker>updated diff, frosch123 et al
16:08<LordAro>planetmaker, i tried to get TB moved from "retired" some time ago - he vetoed the change :p
16:09<@planetmaker>:)
16:09<frosch123>michi should be 0.7
16:09<@planetmaker>true
16:09<LordAro>@fs 4993
16:09<@DorpsGek>LordAro: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/4993
16:09<LordAro>^
16:10<@planetmaker>@commit 23903
16:10<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: Commit by rubidium :: r23903 /trunk (readme.txt src/misc_gui.cpp) (2012-02-05 19:32:12 UTC)
16:10<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: -Fix [FS#4993]: some instances had issues due to a value being out of range
16:10<LordAro>:D
16:11<trendynick>when I wrote ctrl+F is better than sortable tables, I meant is better to have colapsing tables with reasonable information (manual/automated editing)
16:12<trendynick>maybe I wrote something else...
16:12<frosch123>+ Simon Sasburg (HackyKid) - For the many bugfixes he has blessed us with (0.4 - 0.4.5) <- that wording only works for "thanks", maybe "bug fixer" ?
16:13<@planetmaker>language style: Yoda ;)
16:14<@planetmaker>but yes :)
16:14<LordAro>i wonder if t3rkhen is active these days
16:15<@planetmaker>I wonder(ed) whether I should extend the list of special thanks by some of the contributors list at the bottom of the wiki page
16:15<@planetmaker>he's active in greeting us at least
16:15<LordAro>true
16:15<__ln__>@seen terkhen
16:15<@DorpsGek>__ln__: terkhen was last seen in #openttd 13 weeks, 5 days, 2 hours, 31 minutes, and 51 seconds ago: <Terkhen> hello
16:15<LordAro>well
16:16<LordAro>@seen yexo
16:16<@DorpsGek>LordAro: yexo was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 30 weeks, 1 day, 6 hours, 59 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <Yexo> <NGC3982> The station glitches are CHIPS related. I adressed it to Andy the other day, and it seems like it's b0rked in some way. <- it's still in the issue tracker for CHIPS, but I haven't had time to look at it yet
16:16<@planetmaker>gone for good, I recon
16:16<LordAro>:/
16:16<frosch123>LordAro: tk is also active on twitter :)
16:16<@planetmaker>oh?
16:17<LordAro>i don't doubt he's active irl :L
16:17<frosch123>planetmaker: or are you doing the tweets?
16:17<frosch123>i thought it was tk? :o
16:17<@planetmaker>I think he meant openttd's twitter account, LordAro ;)
16:17<@planetmaker>no, I never sent any single tweet in my life
16:17<@planetmaker>I occasionally post something on our g+ page
16:18<LordAro>ottd has a twitter?
16:18<frosch123>LordAro: https://wiki.openttd.org/Community
16:18<frosch123>all the ottd you need
16:18<LordAro>:p
16:18<LordAro>so it does
16:19<LordAro>i've just been following the svn feed
16:19<@planetmaker>:)
16:19<@planetmaker>I'd say, that suffices, LordAro :)
16:19<trendynick>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet_(software)
16:21<LordAro>@seen bjarni
16:21<@DorpsGek>LordAro: bjarni was last seen in #openttd 2 years, 38 weeks, 0 days, 20 hours, 2 minutes, and 7 seconds ago: <Bjarni> heh
16:21<@planetmaker>I should revise my secondary nick on freenode :P
16:21<LordAro>(has to be done, whenever there are lots of @seens :p )
16:21<LordAro>planetmaker, oh?
16:23<Zuu>Oh there is actually quite many posts in our Google+ community.
16:24<@planetmaker>the activity level is rather low, I think :)
16:24<@planetmaker>but there's some, yes
16:24<Zuu>Oh well scrolled down to 2013 now I see.
16:24<LordAro>s/rather low/g+ level/ ;)
16:25<@planetmaker>same thing ;)
16:26<LordAro>hmm, what about this rudge guy? he hasn't done anything in a while :p
16:27<Eddi|zuHause>yeah, he totally never ever contributed anything to the community :p
16:27<frosch123>LordAro: ottd is actually more alive on g+ than on fb, but rd beats them both
16:28<@planetmaker>yup. But rd has several openttd servers. so that's like #openttdcoop irc chat
16:28<Zuu>Oh well, better than Desura where everyone ask for the next version to be uploaded.
16:29<frosch123>yeah, even when it is actually our account :p
16:29<frosch123>maybe we can shovel that onto lordaro
16:29<LordAro>D:
16:29<LordAro>wait, rd?
16:29<LordAro>oh, reddit
16:29<frosch123>maybe "r" is better
16:30<LordAro>probably still wouldn't have got it :p
16:30<trendynick>openttdcoop is for what? servers?
16:30<trendynick>irc channel...
16:30<frosch123>it used to be a server for cooperative play
16:31<frosch123>but is now one of the central pillars for about any development related stuff
16:31<frosch123>all kind of add-ons
16:31<frosch123>they also have an wiki btw :p
16:31<Zuu>http://www.openttdcoop.org/ <-- their website
16:32<luaduck>gg me for getting nickbanned from ottdcoop
16:32<luaduck>young idiotic me went full retard
16:33<@planetmaker>well, #openttdcoop IRC channel is still the chat connected to the game server. development chat is also mostly here
16:33<trendynick>the login is separate from openttd?
16:33<@planetmaker>and devzone is open to everyone working on OSS projects in relation to openttd
16:33<@planetmaker>yes
16:33<Zuu>You need a password to log on to their servers which you get via their IRC channel.
16:33<luaduck>stuff like AP+ would be useful to have ottdcoop for
16:33<frosch123>in the ottd world you need 3 accounts: openttd, openttdcoop, tt-forums
16:34<@planetmaker>ap+ is dead ;) we now have soap which helped cleaning it ;)
16:34<Zuu>:-)
16:34<luaduck>I thought soap was horribly broken and dropped
16:35<luaduck>but it isn't
16:35<luaduck>ok I have an erection
16:35<luaduck>well to be fair anything that isn't AP+ awful TCL gives me an erection
16:42<NGC3982>Go, go Costa Rica!
16:47<luaduck>can soap do irc <-> game chat?
16:48<@planetmaker>yes. It's a supybot plug-in after all
16:48<frosch123>night
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16:48<luaduck>I can't find anything referencing it in the config, 's all
16:48<@planetmaker>every #openttdcoop server uses it, luaduck
16:48<@planetmaker>nothing in openttd config
16:48<luaduck>the soap config.py I mean
16:49<@planetmaker>nor in soap config either, I guess. It's just there
16:49<luaduck>ok cool
16:49<luaduck>and I guess the last question is if it'll work with forks of supybot
16:49-!-Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-162.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:49<@planetmaker>dunno. works with supybot
16:50<luaduck>I'll stick with supy for the time being then
16:50<luaduck>Limnoria seems to have some more features and stuff
16:50<@planetmaker>you could simply try...
16:51<luaduck>but trying is effort
16:51<luaduck>:(
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17:29<Wolf01>'night all
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17:47<Euryale>Does anyone know if 1.4 got any new dependencies or compile-time options?
17:47<Euryale>I'm on Gentoo and the ebuild is old (1.3) and I miss OpenTTD
17:48<Euryale>so I'm going to update it since it doesn't seem like anyone else is.
17:49-!-Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:28ad:351f:878:3cf9] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:49<@planetmaker>doesn't the generic binary work which we offer on our website?
17:49<@planetmaker>anyhow, I'm not aware of new deps
17:50<Euryale>Yes... but then my package manager doesn't track it
17:50<Rubidium>it somewhat depends of what you want to use
17:50<Euryale>... which seems a moot point since I'm manually babysitting the package manager ;)
17:51<Rubidium>there are a few dependencies that are optional, and one such optional things was added in 1.4 (xdg-basedir)
17:51<Euryale>Ah! Okay
17:51<Rubidium>though that dependency only does something when you don't have openttd.cfg in ~/.openttd
17:52<Rubidium>so I reckon that it's a no-op on your system
17:52<Euryale>I'll stuff it in a USE flag and call it a day then
17:52<Euryale>thanks!
17:53-!-Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:54<Rubidium>though I wonder whether they fixed xdg-basedir in gentoo
17:55<Rubidium>if not, then openttd likely won't start
17:55<Euryale>what's wrong with it?
17:55<Rubidium>run-of-the-mill buffer overflow
17:56<Rubidium>if you have 1.2.0-r1 of libxdg-basedir then you're okay, otherwise not
17:57<trendynick>planetmaker: http://pastebin.com/VZyVfsk0
17:57<Euryale>ah! good to know, thanks
17:58<Euryale>apparently it's 1.1.1, so it's probably broken
17:59<Euryale>alright, so using XDG it would depend on dev-libs/libxdg-basedir.
17:59<Euryale>straightforward enough
17:59<@planetmaker>trendynick, do you try to tell me why to use a DVCS?
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18:00<Wienish>hey yall
18:00<trendynick>I meanth with wiki
18:01<Wienish>Oehh we're talking about the wiki?
18:02<Wienish>I was just wondering something about it :D
18:03<Wienish>I was trying to download the World scenario
18:04<Wienish>but I can't :( Is it available somewhere?
18:04<@planetmaker>did you check ingame online content, Wienish ?
18:06<@planetmaker>trendynick, OpenTTD has no feature branches (anymore). So there is nothing which a script can operate on
18:06<Euryale>Is there anything that needs to be passed to ./configure in order to utilize libxdg-basedir or is it just a matter of it being present or not?
18:07<@planetmaker>Anyone who writes a (bigger) patch works on a (separate) repo, which also can be used for review. And there's no canonical place to find that
18:07<@planetmaker>thus the status of any patch can by no means be derived by means of any possible script from any database
18:07<@planetmaker>except by an intelligent bot which skims forums and IRC
18:07<Wienish>I'm going to try now, planetmaker. I saw in the description I need a patch that makes maps go bigger.
18:08<trendynick>the example can be about anything that cannot be done in sequential days
18:08<@planetmaker>Wienish, if that is required, then... not sure you'll have fun
18:08<Wienish>:o why
18:08<@planetmaker>because you'd need an OpenTTD version which matches the exact one to load that scenario then
18:08<Wienish>it is a 8000x4000 map, so it's 8 times bigger than a normal map lol
18:09<@planetmaker>whatever is "normal". My "normal" is 512^2
18:09<Wienish>Am I allowed to make the joke I have either the "Latest" or the "Most recent" version?
18:09<Wienish>yeah but I mean normal max.
18:10<@planetmaker>if you mention also by which definition of 'latest' or 'most recent', then you may. Otherwise it's stale ;)
18:11<Wienish>I probably don't have the most recent
18:11<Wienish>I will check it out now.
18:11<@planetmaker>Wienish, 'most recent' won't help you with the requirement to use a certain patched version
18:11<Wienish>I'm on 1.3.3 lol
18:11<@planetmaker>lol. That's not 'latest' by *any* standard
18:12<Wienish>No I was thinking the same :P
18:12<@planetmaker>it's like old-old-old stable
18:12<Wienish>we're on 1.4.4 now I guess?
18:12<@planetmaker>1.4.1
18:12<Wienish>1.4.1. i see
18:13<luaduck>hm, is it possible to get soap to relay a group of servers into one channel with the Relay plugin?
18:13<luaduck>documentation is a little unclear
18:17<@planetmaker>dunno. It's made for 1 server / channel
18:18<Wienish>I'm updating to 1.4.1 now :) Also with GFX, GSX and that other thing.. GMX I believe :)
18:49<Eddi|zuHause>BMX?
18:49<Eddi|zuHause>do kids nowadays know what BMX is?
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19:11<luaduck>blarf, I can't find a way to do multiple servers
19:11<luaduck>I have linkrelay set up but anything that linkrelay mirrors to the server channel doesn't get printed to the server
19:13<trendynick>@1.4.1: (jazz jukebox sliders do not do anything on both versions) and it seems "pops" are more frequent than 1.3.3 (I have audio monitors)
19:15<trendynick>http://s8.postimg.org/pm07yfagl/openttd_cpu_use4096_4096_Terra_Genesis_zoom_Out_tes.png fullscreen@1080p: it is bad code/implementation on track loading
19:19<Eddi|zuHause>midi volume control is not implemented on linux
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19:39<trendynick>when I'll have time for contributing (or to relax from other activity) I'll sign-up, but for now I'll have only activity of a logging bot
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---Logclosed Mon Jun 30 00:00:28 2014