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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-07-02

---Logopened Wed Jul 02 00:00:32 2014
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09:58<MTsPony>anyone ever tried autopilot on windows?
09:58<Eddi|zuHause>don't use autopilot anymore...
09:58<MTsPony>ah..
09:59<MTsPony>im not sure if its windows related tho as it seems to work fine except it doest wanna output chat from ingame to irc
10:00<MTsPony>tho strangely it does output the map info and that server started,
10:15<@planetmaker>autopilot was never known to work nicely on windows. And it has been replaced by soap
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10:25<MTsPony>soap uh? is that under development?
10:29<@planetmaker>it's being maintained, yes
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10:30<@planetmaker>contrary to autopilot. Which is dead for years
10:30<MTsPony>true
10:30<MTsPony>i suppose it actually does work on windows?
10:30<MTsPony>python sounds like it woukd work
10:30<@planetmaker>it does sound like. Not sure anyone ever tested it on windows
10:31<MTsPony>ill try it :)
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10:41<Xaroth|Work>would be fun to see
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11:37<@Alberth>hi hi
11:46*LordAro also hi's
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12:06<LSky`>quick question
12:07<LSky`>when using rcon, how do you change a config value?
12:07<@Alberth>too late :)
12:07<LSky`>like: rcon password "set.command value"?
12:07<LSky`>or just set
12:07<LSky`>or, like vehicle. if its in the vehicle part of the config
12:07<@Alberth>try "help" ?
12:08<LSky`>it gives me unknown command every time
12:08-!-Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd
12:10<LSky`>tried setting. as wel
12:10<LSky`>doesnt help either
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12:12<LSky`>it is listed in the listsettings
12:14<@Alberth>you tried a simpler command, like rcon passwd "help" or rcon passwd "help set" or so?
12:14<@Alberth>then you may be able to figure out what is wrong
12:14<LSky`>i figured it out, its: rcon password "set vehicle.thecommandgoeshere value"
12:17<@Alberth>kk
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12:45<V453000>Alberth: is somewhere mars industry code in 1 file?
12:46<V453000>the .pnml with links to other pnml files is confusing for me :d
12:46<V453000>I believe you sent me some industry code in 1 file some time ago
12:46<V453000>could I get the link again please? :)
12:47<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: the build server hosts the combined nml
12:48<V453000>cant seem to see that
12:51<Eddi|zuHause>what's the project name?
12:52<@Alberth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx-mars-industries/repository/show/src
12:52<@Alberth>?
12:52<@Alberth>or do you want the resulting nml file?
12:52<@Alberth>V453000: ^
12:53<Eddi|zuHause>that doesn't even have a link to the build server
12:54<@Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/ogfx-mars-industries.nml <-- V453000
12:56<@Alberth>cargotable got moved to outside the industries project somewhat recently
12:57<@Alberth>several sub-projects needed it :)
12:57<@Alberth>perhaps that's what confuses you?
13:01<V453000>I guess that is what I meant (: thanks
13:05<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: so, where exactly would one find the builds of this?
13:06<@Alberth>I'd guess in the overall project
13:07<Eddi|zuHause>i only found a readme.txt
13:08<@Alberth>https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/opengfx-mars/ ?
13:08<Eddi|zuHause>yes
13:09<V453000>every time I am searching for the list of cargo labels, I cant find it
13:09<V453000>I can extract it from NUTS which is what I will do, but still :d
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13:10<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: do you have an explanation for this?
13:11<@Alberth>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx-mars-graphics/repository/show/common_nml < V453000 cargotable has been moved to the graphics project
13:12<@Alberth>so it's available for all sub-projects
13:12<V453000>Alberth: I mean the one on tt-wiki
13:12<V453000>tehre was a table of all cargoes defined by all grfs
13:12<@Alberth>oh, that one :)
13:14<@Alberth>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/CargoTypes ?
13:14<V453000>exactly
13:14<V453000>thanks :)
13:14<V453000>was wondering if anybody gave some label to uranium yet
13:15<@Alberth>don't think anyone programmed an industry for uranium yet
13:15<V453000>seems so indeed
13:17<@Alberth>you should add a realistic mode, where the wagon carrying uranium goes 5km/h :p
13:17<V453000>is that how uranium is transported?
13:17<Xaroth|Work>or, when it heads into a corner too fast, explodes and leaves radioactive waste
13:18<V453000>that works for me Xaroth|Work
13:18<@Alberth>lots of demonstrants at the tracks :p
13:18<V453000>:DD
13:19<@Alberth>mostly near a power plant though
13:21<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: it also should have 1 million running costs per tile :p
13:21<frosch123>i think there was a label for uranium
13:21<frosch123>but it was removed because noone ever used it
13:22<V453000>well I got URAN
13:22<frosch123>it was only added by some random guy who then discovered that its boring
13:22<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: fair enough :)
13:22<V453000>was thinking about NUKE
13:22<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: don't be too witty with this
13:22<Xaroth|Work>that could actually be a fun mechanic
13:22<@Alberth>it's not that dangerous in raw form :p
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13:23<Xaroth|Work>forcing people to get rid of waste
13:23<frosch123>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/index.php?title=CargoTypes&oldid=2280 <- the is DURA for depleted uran and URAN for before
13:23<Xaroth|Work>by not making the plant accept more until waste is disposed of
13:23<Xaroth|Work>but the waste carriages are insanely expensive to run :P
13:23<V453000>Eddi|zuHause: what? :D how does anybody need to care how do I name my cargoes?
13:23<frosch123>there is also UORE and RCKT and OXYG
13:23<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: every vehicle set author
13:23<frosch123>and.. wtf? MATE "Materials"? what's that?
13:24<Xaroth|Work>Eddi|zuHause: I'm long glad there's not an ANUS.
13:24<frosch123>isn't every cargo a material?
13:24<Xaroth|Work>or TWAT. or.. CU.. i'll stop now...
13:24<@Alberth>frosch123: like GOOD? :)
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13:24<frosch123>or did someone plan to add anti-material as well?
13:24<V453000>Eddi|zuHause: sure, they can adapt
13:24<frosch123>someone did good work deleting all that non-sense :)
13:25<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: it must be very clear what is meant from the label alone, not everyone will have a "long description" next to every label
13:26<V453000>I believe I was as gentle as possible http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3478/
13:26<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: i think most of the deleted ones are from the "OTTD+500" project
13:26<frosch123>V453000: why not TOUR instead of YETI?
13:27<V453000>why yes
13:27<frosch123>would work with certain bus sets :p
13:27<V453000>giant ass yeti cant fit in a bus.
13:27<romazoon>hi, can someone tell me how many sprite should i draw to have an animation with the water cycle blue ? (i posted on forum about that, but i just want to get this sorted fast so i can draw further)
13:27<frosch123>an MNSP instead of RIDE?
13:27<V453000>MNSP is usually boxes
13:27<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: most vehicle sets will catch "YETI" from the "passengers" cargo class
13:27<@Alberth>FRUT instead of FRVG ?
13:28<V453000>why would vehicle sets catch YETI from passengers if I say it is flatbed-ish cargo?
13:28<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: VEHI?
13:28<V453000>Alberth: FRVG is from FIRS
13:28<V453000>VEHI is considerable yes
13:28<V453000>yet lame
13:28<frosch123>ok, if YETI do not fit busses, the need a separate label :)
13:29<juzza1>romazoon: 1, use the proper action colors
13:29<V453000>ok VEHI works
13:29<Eddi|zuHause>LVST for YETI? :)
13:29<V453000>lol no :)
13:29<V453000>I think this is fine, with VEHI
13:30<@Alberth>V453000: the comment "Deprecated FIRS cargo. Replaced by FRUT for FIRS > v1.3.0 " claims not, and FRUT is probably the standard fruit cargo, so supported by many vehicle sets
13:30<romazoon>thanks juzza1, do i need to use them in the exact order from the color table ? and do i need to use all the color or just a few of them works too ?
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13:30<V453000>Alberth: but I really want to have a fruit AND vegetable farm :|
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13:31<@Alberth>ok :)
13:31<V453000>but well why not
13:31<@Alberth>your name for the cargo and the label are not that tight connected afaik
13:31<V453000>NUTS could just get a condition "if yeti loaded, change FRUT sprites to "fruit and vegetables sprites"
13:31<V453000>sure
13:31<@planetmaker><Eddi|zuHause> [17:10:28] planetmaker: do you have an explanation for this? <-- I couldn't establish by means of backlog what you refer(ed) to with "this"
13:32<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: where the builds of the opengfx-mars-industries are
13:32<V453000>so the only custom cargoes seem to be URAN and YETI atm
13:32<@planetmaker>http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/opengfx-mars/push/LATEST/ <-- there? Like all mars project builds
13:33<V453000>I think CORE would work best for URAN
13:33<@planetmaker>CORE? Nah. U238 :)
13:33<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: then why does the "build server" link doesn't work, and why is this not found on jenkins?
13:33<V453000>:DDDDD
13:33<V453000>awesome pm
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13:34<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, which link in jenkins?
13:34<@planetmaker>which link doesn't work?
13:35<Eddi|zuHause>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx-mars-industries/hudson/index
13:35<@planetmaker>there is no build job for that repo defined
13:35<@planetmaker>it's a sub-repo
13:35<@planetmaker>there's only one build job for opengfx-mars
13:36<Eddi|zuHause>yes, and that one only contains the readme.txt
13:36<V453000>if I use YETI which defines CORE in Temperate climate with the original train set, it wont work anyway, because temperate simply doesnt have that wagon, right?
13:36*Alberth added the link to the main project
13:36<Eddi|zuHause>https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/opengfx-mars/
13:36<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, the "artefacts" as on the jenkins page(s) are not necessarily in relation to what's published on bundles
13:36<@Alberth>V453000: wouldn't it fall back to cargo classes?
13:37<V453000>original vehicles dont have cargo classes do they
13:37<@planetmaker>they always need separate and manual definition. So the canonical place to look for the build results is bundles server
13:37<@planetmaker>I possibly should remove all artefacts from jenkins projects. It's just duplication
13:37<@Alberth>oh, really original vehicles. Indeed, I guess that would fail, just like FIRS and ECS
13:37<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i find the bundles server very hard to find from the devzone project pages
13:37<V453000>aye
13:38<@planetmaker>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx-mars <-- It lists that quite prominently in the description
13:38<V453000>hm, could use GEAR for machinery XD
13:38-!-Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
13:38<Wolf01>hi hi
13:38<@Alberth>planetmaker: I added that a minute ago :)
13:38<@planetmaker>:D k
13:38<@Alberth>hi hi Wolf01
13:39<@Alberth>like Eddi, I always fail to find any build :)
13:39<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: even then, it has to be manually added there
13:39<@planetmaker>yes, it has
13:39<@planetmaker>do you want to write me a plug-in for either redmine or jenkins which handles it more automatically?
13:40<Eddi|zuHause>it's still missing from http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx-mars-industries
13:40<@planetmaker>I agree, the linkage to bundles server is not very good
13:40<@planetmaker>as it mostly has to be added manually
13:40<@Alberth>Eddi|zuHause: as well as all other sub projects
13:41<@planetmaker>generally bundles.openttdcoop.org/$PROJECTNAME/push/LATEST works
13:41<@planetmaker>it does indeed not work for a subproject thingy like opengfx-mars
13:41<@planetmaker>which could be solved by symlinks on the filesystem of bundles server
13:42<@Alberth>given the few sub-projects, it may be tmwftlb
13:42<@Alberth>especially if one has to add it manually to the frontpage anyway
13:42<@planetmaker>alternatively we discontinue usage of bundles server and use only jenkins artefacts. But that works badly with projects like eints or firs which generate nice documentations
13:43<@Alberth>jenkins bug?
13:43<@Alberth>or just a wrong configuration?
13:43<@planetmaker>not exactly bug. It's not meant to be a file browser and web server
13:44<@planetmaker>adding all things which we want to artefacts is a bit work, but can be done without much problem really
13:44<@Alberth>what about the option to add the link somewhere else, like on the collected project page, or have a download link page for all projects?
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26671 trunk/src/lang/afrikaans.txt (2014-07-02 17:45:15 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@Alberth>(1 page listing the project and the download page)
13:45<@DorpsGek>afrikaans - 4 changes by telanus
13:45<@planetmaker>http://dev.openttdcoop.org/ <-- has the links to bundles server
13:45<@planetmaker>probably not prominently enough
13:46<@Alberth>indeed :)
13:46<@Alberth>just like the "projects" link :)
13:46<Eddi|zuHause>it can't be that hard to just add a tab "download server" which has a link to bundles.blah/project-name by default
13:46<@planetmaker>what do you mean with 'download server'?
13:47<Eddi|zuHause>random words that go in the tab name
13:47<V453000>wood = piece goods?
13:47<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: wood is a weird special case...
13:47<@planetmaker>that requires writing a redmine plug-in. Yes, possibly not "too hard". Can you please prove that to me?
13:48<V453000>what is wood then :D
13:48<frosch123>V453000: ask andy about wood, lumber and timber :)
13:48<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: in all my wagons, i either included or excluded wood specifically, not relying on cargo classes
13:48<V453000>your wagons arent even drawn ...
13:49<Eddi|zuHause>that has absolutely no relevance :p
13:49<V453000>if the wood was liquified it could be in tankers and hence in liquid
13:49<V453000>for example
13:49<V453000>or giant ass wood, being in oversized
13:49<V453000>how it is drawn matters considerably I think
13:49<@planetmaker>k, I made the link to bundles server a bit more prominent at dev.o.o
13:50<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: i have no clue how to write a plugin. i suppose it's changing 3 lines in the tutorial/helloworld plugin
13:51<frosch123>well, it's ruby :p
13:51<@planetmaker>I have no clue either. Nor any experience with ruby. But it's definitely more than 3 lines. I looked that much at how extensions work.
13:51<Eddi|zuHause>i've never written a line of ruby in my life
13:52<@planetmaker>as you need to register it etc pp
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13:52<@planetmaker>maybe 30 will do
13:52<@planetmaker>anyhow, it needs s/o to do it
13:52<@Alberth>the list of bulit points below it seems a fine way?
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13:53<@planetmaker>you mean for linking bundles server?
13:53<@Alberth>as well as the projects, imho
13:54<Eddi|zuHause>planetmaker: alternatively, add it to the overview page, where it lists tickets and stuff
13:54-!-Pol [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
13:54<@planetmaker>the ideal place would be a tab like 'Overview', 'Activity' etc
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13:55<@planetmaker>that place coming maybe 2nd in my preference list
13:57<Eddi|zuHause>so a "Downloads" tab with "release"/"nightly"/"push" links, which can be configured and filled with default values
13:58<@planetmaker>there existed and URL tab extension for redmine 1.x. Which is severely broken for 2.3 which we use
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13:58<@planetmaker>fixing that extension was not obviously trivial
13:59<V453000>BATT batteries == piece goods? :)
13:59<V453000>CC_POWER? :D
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14:02<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: planetmaker: i guess it could possibly be easier to patch redmine directly to link to the bundles server (as in: same for all projects, not controllable by project)
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14:04<@planetmaker>yes, that would probably be easier. Yet still it makes sense to make it a selectable module for each project. Not every project has a download link
14:04<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: that will again fail for the subprojects
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14:08<V453000>what is type_abbreviation for?
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14:12<@Alberth>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Cargos ?
14:13<V453000>yeah but I dont understand what is it used for
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14:13<V453000>two-letter cargo type abbreviation?
14:13<V453000>where does that show?
14:14-!-qwebirc41935 [~oftc-webi@adsl-dyn162.91-127-171.t-com.sk] has quit []
14:14<Eddi|zuHause>in the list filters
14:15<Eddi|zuHause>like stations
14:16<V453000>aha
14:16<V453000>thanks
14:16<MTsPony>mhh trying to load soap plugin, cannot import name poll
14:17<Eddi|zuHause>then install that?
14:18<@planetmaker>however, on bundles server I made now symlinks from opengfx-mars-industries to opengfx-mars (and the same for the other sub-projects)
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14:19<MTsPony>where do i install what?
14:20<Eddi|zuHause>MTsPony: i suppose it's a python package
14:21<MTsPony>perhaps part of PySQLite or PySQLite?
14:21<MTsPony>Twisted*
14:21<@planetmaker>mind that soap is a plug-in for supybot
14:22<@planetmaker>so your supybot does work without soap plug-in?
14:22<MTsPony>yeh, its an error when trying to load soap
14:23<MTsPony>usin python 2.7 windows
14:23<V453000>YETI COMPILES =D it doesnt define any sprites or industries, just cargoes, but compiles :D
14:24<@planetmaker>\o/
14:25<@planetmaker>MTsPony, you also have libottdadmin installed?
14:26<MTsPony>yes sir
14:26<MTsPony>system wide method
14:28<MTsPony>the readme says twisted and pysqlite is recommendee but not sure if required or if its the cause at all
14:28<V453000>how do I get what do I put instead of 0, 115 for industries ? disable_item(FEAT_INDUSTRIES, 0, 115);
14:29<@Alberth>it's a range of industries that you disable
14:29<V453000>well yeah
14:29<V453000>but where do I get what number to put there :D
14:30<V453000>trains had 0, 115
14:30<V453000>the value I got from -idkwhere-
14:30<@Alberth>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/IndustryDefaultProps#Climate_independent_properties looks like the list
14:30<V453000>technically if I put there 0, <maximum possible value>, it should work?
14:30<@planetmaker>http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/IndustryDefaultProps ?
14:31<@planetmaker>@base 16 10 24
14:31<@DorpsGek>planetmaker: 36
14:31<@Alberth>any value >= 36 should work :p
14:32<juzza1>also according to http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Disable_items, "If no further arguments are given, all default items of that feature are disabled."
14:32<V453000>okay (: thanks
14:32<V453000>oh
14:32<@Alberth>even easier :p
14:32<V453000>that worked juzza1, tyvm
14:32<V453000>:))
14:32<@planetmaker>MTsPony, I guess you'll have to try whether one of those is actually required instead of recommended
14:33<MTsPony>aye, will do
14:33<@Alberth>I probably copied it from another opengfx-mars newgrf
14:33<@planetmaker>MTsPony, please make sure to report it as bug (against the soap documentation) when you know what's wrong :)
14:34<V453000>creating industry to go now :D hm
14:34<MTsPony>kk :)
14:36<V453000>Blue tank sprites. spriteset(airmine_blue_tank_sprites, "../graphics/Buildings/Industry_AirMine_8bpp.png") { [140, 140, 64, 64, -31, -35] [140, 72, 64, 64, -31, -35] [140, 4, 64, 64, -31, -35] }I always used only
14:36<V453000>what are 3 [] things for?
14:37<V453000>zooms?
14:37<@planetmaker>building stages
14:37<V453000>O_O
14:37<@planetmaker>or whatever. It's just a spriteset
14:37<V453000>didnt expect that to be defined there :D
14:37<@planetmaker>you can basically access any sprite in a spriteset at any place in your sprite layouts
14:38<@planetmaker>in the layout you can do like
14:38<@planetmaker>sprite: airmine_blue_tank_sprites(2);
14:39<@planetmaker>in order to access the 3rd sprite in the spriteset
14:39<V453000>aha
14:39<@planetmaker>and the 2 of course could be a variable, too. For instance construction_stage
14:39<@planetmaker>construction_state
14:39<V453000>OR I can simply define 3 different sprites with basically same result
14:39<@planetmaker>which is much more tedious
14:39<V453000>right
14:39<V453000>I think I will prefer tedious-but-able-to-see-what-I-am-doing per usual :D
14:40<@planetmaker>or animation frames. MUCH recommended to be used that way
14:40<@planetmaker>then sprite: spriteset_name(animation_frame)
14:40<V453000>hm
14:40<@planetmaker>or you write 128 spritesets instead of 1
14:40<V453000>but the animation frame is in different file
14:40<V453000>?
14:40<@planetmaker>and 128 switches
14:41<@planetmaker>I don't get your question
14:41<V453000>I have 2 pngs
14:41<V453000>f000
14:41<V453000>and f001
14:41<@planetmaker>oh, file, not tile :)
14:41<V453000>aha
14:41<V453000>yeah :)
14:41<@planetmaker>that doesn't matter. Just make one spriteset from different files
14:41<V453000>like
14:42<V453000>spriteset (){} (){} ?
14:42<@planetmaker>spriteset(name) { [140, 140, 64, 64, -31, -35, "filename1"], [140, 140, 64, 64, -31, -35, "filename2"] }
14:42<Eddi|zuHause>i think inside the [] you can give a filename
14:42<V453000>oh o_o
14:42<V453000>hideous
14:42<V453000>CODING.
14:42<V453000>thanks :) very interesting
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15:18<V453000>how do I tell a sprite to be 32bpp?
15:19<V453000>aha I see
15:19<V453000>hm
15:19<V453000>:d
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15:19<V453000>does this mean I MUST provide 8bpp sprites, and as ADDITIONAL I can provide 32bpp ones?
15:20<V453000>that sounds unlikely
15:21<@Alberth>zbase was an extension to opengfx, so it seems likely to me
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15:22<V453000>alternative_sprites (sprite_3BB_f000, ZOOM_LEVEL_IN_4X, BIT_DEPTH_32BPP) { [0, 672, 128, 64, -64, -32, "gfx/3BB/3BB_f000.png"] } this screams " Undeclared block identifier sprite_3BB_f000"
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15:23<Eddi|zuHause>you must provide 8bpp sprites before this
15:24<V453000>right
15:25-!-Pol [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:25<frosch123>V453000: you must always have 8bpp normal zoom sprites, even if you make them only a black outline
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15:26<V453000>hmf
15:26<V453000>right
15:26<V453000>so I can provide 8bpp 1x sprites
15:26<V453000>and 32bpp x4 sprites
15:26<V453000>is that all I need?
15:26<frosch123>depends on whether you want to use effect colours
15:27<frosch123>like blinking or company colours or stuff
15:27<V453000>I dont intend to do that
15:27<frosch123>then 8bpp 1x + 32bpp 4x is fine :)
15:27<V453000>grate (:
15:27<V453000>what will then show in 1x?
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15:28<V453000>the 8bpp or a translation of the 32bpp 4x?
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15:28<V453000>aka if I want x1 to be 32bpp, I must provide that additionally?
15:28<frosch123>32bpp will be used for 32bpp
15:28<V453000>sure but what will happen if I view it in x1 in the game if I provide 8bpp x1 and 32bpp x4?
15:28<frosch123>possible you also want separate ground tiles / building sprites for transparency
15:29<frosch123>but you can also get away just showing dirt tiles in transparent mode
15:29<Eddi|zuHause>the 32bpp will be preferred over the 8bpp
15:29<V453000>mhm
15:29<Eddi|zuHause>unless the game is forced to load with an 8bpp blitter
15:29<V453000>Eddi|zuHause: which means that x1 will show as 32bpp? basically meaning the 8bpp x1 never shows?
15:29<frosch123>or you could show other hints in transparent mode
15:30<frosch123>like yeti secrets
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>for 99.9% of the users, 8bpp will never show
15:30<V453000>transparent sprites can be defined somewhere else?
15:30<V453000>right :)
15:30<Eddi|zuHause>for the other 0.1%, 8bpp must be provided as fallback
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15:31<Eddi|zuHause>transparent sprites are calculated automatically
15:32<Eddi|zuHause>all ground sprites will never be transparent, all building sprites are either darkened or hidden depending on transparent/invisible setting
15:32<V453000>right
15:32<frosch123>yeah, i did not mean transparent industries, but rather what you see when you set them to invisible
15:32<Eddi|zuHause>like the default ore mine is all ground sprites
15:32<Eddi|zuHause>thus it doesn't change on 'X'
15:32<frosch123>but if in doubt that can also just be dirt tiles
15:34<@planetmaker>V453000, 1x 8bpp and 4x32bpp is sufficient
15:34<@planetmaker>but it might affect - as mentioned above - the colour. See pota-ghat. It uses exactly that combination
15:36<V453000>okay :D
15:36<V453000>time to try defining the industry item
15:36<V453000>hell imminent I assume
15:38<Eddi|zuHause>just take one step after another :)
15:38<V453000>I think I did just define the two sprites and it compiled ... without having a real effect but did :D
15:38<frosch123>ship it?
15:39<Eddi|zuHause>see, that is a nice step :p
15:39<V453000>?
15:39<V453000>exactly Eddi|zuHause :D
15:39<frosch123>early alpha build :p
15:39<V453000>frosch123: nothing yet, but hopefully soon :P
15:40<V453000>once I get one industry work properly, it is just copypaste ... plus supplies etc I guess :)
15:41<frosch123>the scary thing is that i expect you to just do exactly that: copy & paste :s
15:41<V453000> well if the industries are meant to work the same way? :P
15:42<V453000>minus some changed input/output cargoes
15:42<frosch123>other people would use a compiler or at least pre-processor :)
15:42*Eddi|zuHause hides
15:42<V453000>those creatures arent people but CODERS
15:42<V453000>key difference
15:42<V453000>me the human being uses copypaste
15:43<frosch123>well, i figured i would have to make my own grf for a guano farm
15:43<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: the problem with copy&paste is that you have to change all these pastes manually after you changed the original
15:43<V453000>yes I know Eddi :)
15:43<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: that is a) a lot of boring, tedious work, and b) easy to forget one or two places
15:44<@Alberth>you don't have that many industries
15:44<Eddi|zuHause>let alone make mistakes and typos every time
15:44<V453000>Eddi I know, but the time and effort I would have to spend learning stuff about preprocessors, templating and what not, is one hell worse on both the tedious, and mainly boring part
15:44<V453000>for me
15:45<@Alberth>I agree NML lacks a sane template mechanism :)
15:46<@Alberth>andy would build a python code generator :p
15:46<Eddi|zuHause>i agree, too. but code generators are not THAT difficult to understand
15:48<@planetmaker>it's a matter of what thing floats your boat
15:48<@planetmaker>clearly code generators don't float V's boat ;)
15:49<@planetmaker>also... if you have a hammer, every problem looks like a nail ;)
15:49<V453000>no, my boat is overflowing with NML already
15:50<V453000>so, good news is that the thing compiles without having a problem with me
15:50<V453000>the bad news is that the refinery I tried to creates doesnt exist in the game :D
15:50<V453000>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3480/
15:50<frosch123>well, sometimes the boat has to produce its own ocean first, before it can swim
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15:51<V453000>substitute solved it :D
15:52<V453000>I got my industries :D
15:52<V453000>the sprites are off, but they are there :D
15:52<Eddi|zuHause>V453000: missing climate/year/other?
15:52<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: missing "substitute"
15:52<frosch123>since "substitute" does not substitute, but define
15:53<@planetmaker>:P
15:53<Eddi|zuHause>uhm, weird?
15:53<V453000>TRUE graphical revolution in OpenTTD https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/YETI000.png
15:53<frosch123>no, usual grf bollocks
15:53<@planetmaker>logic in NewGRFs is ... special
15:54<Eddi|zuHause>"beware of floating triangles"?
15:54<V453000>yarr
15:54<V453000>they process oil like hell
15:54<@planetmaker>clearly the triangles float the boat ;)
15:54<V453000>or well, ??typename :D
15:55<__ln__>pozor!
15:55<V453000>attention
15:56<__ln__>naštupesti, jidzenka, dobriji den
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>nastarovje
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15:59<Eddi|zuHause>oh, and english only!
15:59<frosch123>at least use proper letters
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16:44<frosch123>night
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17:34<V453000>can I use templates in defining industry tiles?
17:35<V453000>spriteset (sprite_3BB_01_f000){ [template_industrytile_x4_main(0,0,0,576), "gfx/8bpp/3BB.png"] }
17:35<V453000>or is just my syntax wrong?
17:35<V453000>nmlc screams template_industrytile_x4_main is not defined as a function
17:35<@planetmaker>syntax wrong
17:36<@planetmaker>spritesets behave the same. They're not specific to vehicle, industry or whatever
17:36<@planetmaker>so use the same way as for vehicles
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17:36<V453000>the difference is the various files thingy
17:37<@planetmaker>that makes it trickier, yes
17:37<@planetmaker>but the filename can be a template parameter
17:37<V453000>:0 hm
17:38<V453000>aha
17:39<V453000>works :D
17:39<V453000>thanks
17:39<@planetmaker>great. Time for bed then :)
17:40<@planetmaker>g'night
17:40<V453000>gnight
17:47<MTsPony> A quicky. I made a scenario and ran it for a few decades, suddenly all trees in tropic disappeared, or most of them. I know i turned off That trees wont grow, but i didnt expect them all to disappear?
17:48<MTsPony>isnt there some way to 'freeze' em?
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17:51<Eddi|zuHause>no. trees slowly disappear. or fast, if you have a tropic saw mill.
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18:00<NGC3982>A Tropico Saw mill?
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18:10<Eddi|zuHause>is that supposed to be a joke?
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19:22<MTsPony>we're talking about the whole map here
19:23<MTsPony>size went from 8 to like 4mb
19:23<MTsPony>they all changed into debris
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20:08<Eddi|zuHause>MTsPony: is this the negotiating phase of grief? it won't change the fact.
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---Logclosed Thu Jul 03 00:00:33 2014