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#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-07-05

---Logopened Sat Jul 05 00:00:36 2014
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03:33<Wolf01>hello o/
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03:52<andythenorth>o/
03:54<@planetmaker>\o
03:55<andythenorth>slow forum is slow
03:55<andythenorth>fund a bigger server?
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03:58<@planetmaker>I would not assume it's so much a server issue due to the fact that the slowness appeared rather suddenly
03:59<@planetmaker>but I guess no-one knows what causes it right now :)
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04:25<@peter1138>andythenorth, you're funding it?
04:26<andythenorth>I gave him 50p or something
04:26<andythenorth>I could give more
04:26<andythenorth>slow is boring
04:26<andythenorth>hmm, it’s gone fast again
04:26<andythenorth>maybe mysql got in a tiz
04:26<V453000>:D
04:26<andythenorth>should I add a parameter to Iron Horse?
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04:27<@peter1138>No
04:27<@Alberth>moin
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04:27<V453000>mooin
04:28<@planetmaker>moin
04:28<andythenorth>I was thinking of doing a daylength patch in newgrf
04:31<V453000>changed intro dates andythenorth ?
04:31<V453000>I thought about that too
04:32<andythenorth>yeah, just scaling 1-32x or something
04:33<andythenorth>on a prameter
04:33<andythenorth>so bored of seeing daylength patches
04:33<V453000>aye
04:34<V453000>I just didnt know how to implement it to the parameter
04:34<V453000>1-10x is more than enough :P
04:34<V453000>even x2 is huge
04:35<V453000>in case of nuts that would already be 200 to 400 years of new engines
04:35<@Alberth>I had an idea to make a newgrf for each type of train, eg a steam-newgrf from 1950 to 2050 or so, and a diesel newgrf, an electric newgrf, etc etc. With parameter when the first train of that type should be available, and when the last one should become unavailable
04:35<V453000>hm :)
04:35<@Alberth>so you can configure your own eras in any way you desire
04:36<@Alberth>steam newgrf is probably most needed :)
04:37<V453000>I am not sure letting people configure too much is a great idea :P
04:37<V453000>usually means more tedious map creation, too
04:37<@Alberth>yeah, it assumes they know where the "set parameter" button is :p
04:38<V453000>not just that, it also assumes they are not idiots and are able to set it up to make it work well
04:38<V453000>idiot-proof is good
04:38<@Alberth>:D
04:38<V453000>"oh I set the newGRF badly, I had no engines available for 100 years, please help!"
04:39<@Alberth>the game should be more helpful with that, I agree
04:39<@Alberth>same happens with no wagons for cargo types etc
04:39<V453000>but simply stretching time is great, they cant screw it up
04:39<V453000>I would still very much appreciate more control for newGRF to make vehicles expire at some precise date
04:39<V453000>myeah
04:40<V453000>btw what do you think about YETI providing 1 special wagon only for Workers?
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04:40<V453000>idk what class to give to yetis ... oversized will mostly look like some machinery I assume
04:41<V453000>so far they have no class
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04:41<@Alberth>could be useful
04:41<@Alberth>on the other hand, you're probably never going to be compatible with all vehicle sets
04:41<V453000>no, but all of the other cargoes are usually defined by vehicle sets
04:42<V453000>and by defined I mean defined and the cargo looks +- how I want it to look
04:42<V453000>idk how Uranium would look, it is bulk, so probably mostly some coal-ish, I think pikka uses gray bulks for undefined things
04:42<V453000>point is, heap of something doesnt matter, yeti monsters do
04:43<@Alberth>but you're not in agreement with other people either wrt other cargoes :)
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04:44<@Alberth>eg CHIPS uses purple/pink-ish for iron ore, you use brown or yellow-ish iirc
04:44<V453000>well that is andy and he already agreed that pinkish is bullshit :D and other vehicles do use very similar brown to mine
04:44<V453000>right andythenorth ?
04:44<@Alberth>also, maybe you should give other authors the chance to adapt their set to your yetis
04:45<V453000>"other people" usually dont define all cargoes, I do
04:45<V453000>they can adapt the set to yetis if they explicitly want
04:45<V453000>just add cargo YETI to refittable and easy
04:45<V453000>but if YETI provides one such wagon itself, they dont Have to
04:46<V453000>if NUTS is loaded with YETI, the wagon would simply not appear
04:46<@peter1138>It's a pinkybrown :p
04:47<@Alberth>pinky brain :)
04:48<V453000>Alberth: is there even any newGRF which would define each and every ECS+FIRS+PikkaBasicI. cargo?
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04:49<@Alberth>for default set it would work, as it won't get changed (perhaps in opengfx+trains something may be added). As for other vehicle sets, I seriously doubt they would use your wagon, as "it's not realistic", or "it doesn't fit in the vehicle style".
04:50<@Alberth>I don't know how many people load a industry set, but not a vehicle set. Not many, I am guessing
04:51<V453000>"it is not realistic" applies to YETI itself, too :P
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04:51<V453000>the idea is just not to make other train sets useless, while keeping YETI as a unique cargo without the need for cargo class
04:52<@Alberth>(10:48:09) V453000: Alberth: is there even any newGRF which would define each and every ECS+FIRS+PikkaBasicI. cargo? <-- I honestly don't know, except for a few, most vehicle sets are just collections of a zillion vehicles to me. I cannot bother to dig my way through them
04:52<V453000>making other train sets use a custom wagon sounds a lot better to me than seeing YETIs as goods crates
04:52<V453000>well I did dig through a lot myself Alberth :P
04:54<@Alberth>I do agree it's the most you can do for YETIs.
04:55<V453000>not so much through the newer train sets like dutch/xUSSR, but those are so bad that even if they did define all cargoes they would still not be very useful :D
04:55<V453000>aye :)
04:57<@Alberth>it will be interesting to see how many vehicle sets adopt it :)
04:58<V453000>0
04:58<V453000>?
05:00<@Alberth>nah, I predict at least NUTS will acknowledge its existence :D
05:01<@Alberth>and default vehicles will use it too :)
05:01<V453000>I dont count nuts :)
05:01<@Alberth>and opengfx+trains
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05:02<@Alberth>hi hi andy
05:03<V453000>hyhy
05:03<@Alberth>will iron horse and squid adopt YETIs as cargo?
05:03<andythenorth>no idea :)
05:04<V453000>eat him!
05:04*andythenorth biab
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05:05<V453000>wat
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05:50<@Alberth>sending in the yetis may not be the optimal strategy :)
05:50<V453000>:D
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06:04<@Alberth>engines seem overpowered for cargo transport in troptical refurbishment set, pulling a 64 km/h wagon with a 104 km/h engine :)
06:08<@planetmaker>power is not speed :)
06:09<@planetmaker>but I noticed that, too. The engine top speed often is pointless when you play with wagon speed limits
06:16<V453000>I think wagon speed limits are completely pointless
06:17<V453000>if trains are to be competitively viable against each other, there should be no need of another limit that would cripple some trains down
06:17<@Alberth>wagonspeedlimits on <-- the readme suggests to use it :)
06:17<V453000>..................................
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10:28<__ln__>http://www.kwch.com/news/local-news/train-carrying-737-fuselages-derails-in-montana/26803140
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10:59<__ln__>hey central-europeans, how many different keys do you need to get into your apartment from outside the building?
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11:01<V453000>2 usually
11:01<Guest1071>hey. i am not new to openttd, but this is the first time i am considering getting some NewGRFs etc. but there is so many of them, i am not sure which one to get. anyone got some "must-have" or is there anyway to sort NewGRFs by popularity?
11:02<V453000>it depends how you play and what you like Guest1071 :)
11:02<@Alberth>all normal houses usually have 1 door you need to get through :)
11:02-!-Guest1071 is now known as tus_
11:03<@Alberth>tus_: there is no common popular set, as V says, it depends on how you play the game
11:03<tus_>V453000, I am thinking of sets for (1) air, (2) vehicles and (3) trains not much more. i am interested in those that let me start from 1800 and play to like 2000+ :p
11:03<tus_>i have been googling like mad for some kind of list but most are outdated and there is no "one huge list" but if i have missed anything pls let me know
11:04<@Alberth>ie realistic, build large network, eye-candy
11:04<V453000>try NUTS Unrealistic Train Set for trains
11:04<V453000>eGRVTS for road vehicles
11:04<@Alberth>tus_: online content right from the main menu? :)
11:04<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: usually one for the building door and one for the flat (plus one for the cellar and one for the mail box). but you can add as many locks to your flat as you like
11:04<V453000>and aircraft is pretty much only Av8
11:04<@Alberth>ships is squid
11:05<Eddi|zuHause>actually, two for the cellar. it's usually behind another main door
11:05<tus_>Alberth that list is genius but i wish there was a way to sort by popularity to help new players get into that. otherwise i have no idea to start :p
11:05<tus_>V453000 thanks man! I will be looking these up!
11:05<@Alberth>tus_: coming here is a good way :)
11:05<Eddi|zuHause>which may or may not use the same key as the building door
11:06<@Alberth>but everybody has his/her own style of playing, so there is no common agreement on popular grfs
11:06<tus_>ah I see. Well atleast I got some guidance now so I can get started slowly.
11:06<__ln__>i'm used to having just one key that fits both the building front door and the flat door. and the same key opens also cellar doors or whatever other doors i am supposed to have access to.
11:06<tus_>By the way, I am using AdmiralAI as AI. Is it a stupid idea to have like 5 AdmiralAIs? Is it best to have 5 different AIs instead?
11:07<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: maybe with more modern lock systems that have selective keys that works
11:07<@Alberth>http://www.tt-forums.net/viewforum.php?f=67 can be useful for searching
11:07<V453000>tus_: I recommend turning on expiring vehicles, and start in 1900 with NUTS ;) I believe you can start earlier than that, it does have trains, but the next new train will be in 1900-something
11:08<@Alberth>http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/ can be useful too
11:08<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: but that may make it more expensive if you actually lose a key
11:08<V453000>expiring vehicles will make sure you dont get overwhelmed by the amount of vehicles, while NUTS is well adapted for it
11:08<tus_>thanks for the tip
11:09<V453000>yw
11:09<Eddi|zuHause>tus_: yes, it works better when you have different types of AI. AIs that think alike tend to get in each others way
11:09<@Alberth>with grfcrawler I always have the idea that the stuff is old
11:09<__ln__>Eddi|zuHause: knowing that such 1-key systems have been widely used in finland for decades makes me kind of facepalm when at a central european hotel i'm handed 2 or 3 keys that are needed just to get into my room.
11:10<tus_>Eddi|zuHause thanks, that's probably why in my test game all of them had bus stations in same towns lol
11:10<@Alberth>__ln__: it's called "authentic" :)
11:11<Eddi|zuHause>__ln__: that's when they are so cheap they can't afford a key system
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11:15<__ln__>http://www.abloy.com/en/abloy/abloycom/products/abloy-key-systems/abloy-master-key-solutions/
11:20<@Alberth>the number of central european hotel owners here are close to 0 :)
11:22<__ln__>i don't think the madness is limited to hotels, it's about regular apartment buildings too.
11:26<@Alberth>quite likely :)
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12:07<SpComb>they're switching over from abloy execs here
12:07<SpComb>starting to see iLoq's
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12:36<@peter1138>Meanwhile I have a different key for every lock, at home.
12:38<__ln__>and i bet hot and cold water comes from two different taps
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12:41<@planetmaker>hi hi
12:54<@Alberth>o/
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13:29<@peter1138>__ln__, sometimes... mixer taps are bloody expensive.
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14:22<Eddi|zuHause>i haven't seen separate taps in ages
14:28<@Alberth>no garden with a tap for cold water?
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14:29<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, lies. Or you haven't been at the OpenTTD meetings ;)
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14:30<Eddi|zuHause>i haven't paid attention, probably
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: our garden doesn't have a tap. we collect rain water.
14:31<@Alberth>kk, no tap thus in the garden :)
14:31<Eddi|zuHause>Alberth: anyway, "cold-water-only-tap" is something different to "separate tap"
14:32<@Alberth>fair enough :)
14:35<V453000>both sound unrelated to beer
14:35<V453000>hence wtf
14:48<@Alberth>assuming yetis drink water and beer by the barrel, it doesn't sound yeti related either
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14:54<V453000>EXACTLY
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15:03<__ln__>http://youtu.be/mzMUTrTYD9s
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15:21<andythenorth>where is cat?
15:22<V453000>here
15:23<andythenorth>good to know
15:25<V453000>PAT ME
15:29<tus_>Is it possible to have a t random world generation? By that mean that it randomizes Smoothnees, number of industries etc. I can't seem to see anything.
15:29<@Alberth>close your eyes, click and move the mouse randomly? :)
15:30<@Alberth>otherwise, no
15:30<tus_>haha, i will do the close my eyes thing ;) thanks
15:30<@Alberth>you can get a savegame from the forum, and continue playing with that perhaps
15:31<tus_>ya it's no major problem anyway! game is awesome as it is
15:31<@Alberth>settings are in openttd.cfg, you could probably write a script that changes them before you start the program
15:32<tus_>interesting, thanks man
15:32<@planetmaker>I need that with a web interface :)
15:33<V453000>Alberth: savegames from the forum have too high likelihood od being simply BAD :P
15:33<@planetmaker>V453000, I think we should start archiving the games from stable server, too
15:33<@Alberth>you can also do "click and move the mouse randomly" at the web browser, not sure whether you end up at a safe place :)
15:34<tus_>i am not sure if any of the devs are here, but thanks for the awesome game
15:34<@planetmaker>I might end up in the irc window, Alberth ;)
15:34<@Alberth>:D
15:35<@planetmaker>Much appreciated. Glad you like it, tus_ :)
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16:02<andythenorth>wine is more-ish
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16:27<@Alberth>good night
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17:07<andythenorth>bye
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18:12<DigitalFox>Hi :)
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18:17<Wolf01>'night
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18:55<fjb>Moin.
18:59<@planetmaker>o/
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19:55<tus_>how stupid is it to use the same AI script for 4-5 computer players? I am having a bit of a hard time finding AI:s that do trains, airs, vehicles etc together.
19:57<@planetmaker>it's not necessarily the best idea. But it depends on the AI. You could give NoCAB a shot as well
19:57<@planetmaker>http://wiki.openttd.org/Comparison_of_AIs
19:58<@planetmaker>not sure how current the table is. But there has been remarkably little AI development recently
19:59<tus_>ohh thanks for that table. it's really helpful, even if it may be outdated. I already tried NoCAB but it seems to work sometimes, sometimes not. Weird. Maybe it takes a bit to utilize. Thanks
20:24<tus_>sorry i am back with another stupid question. does it matter if train stations cover a whole industry or if juts 1 tile of it?
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21:14<glx>tus_: depends on the industry and if it's source or destination
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21:47<tus_>thanks glx
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22:27<tus_>lol so i have been playing for like 20 years ingame and just now NoCab started working
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22:35<Eddi|zuHause>the bigger the map, the longer the AI needs to figure out a useful starting location
22:39<tus_>thanks for the info, good night.
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---Logclosed Sun Jul 06 00:00:37 2014