Back to Home / #openttd / 2014 / 07 / Prev Day | Next Day
#openttd IRC Logs for 2014-07-16

---Logopened Wed Jul 16 00:00:53 2014
00:02-!-Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:08-!-Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd
00:08-!-Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:39-!-KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:39-!-KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd
00:56-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC668D5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit []
00:56-!-Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC6621A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
01:06-!-Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has joined #openttd
01:20-!-montalvo [~montalvo@ip24-253-22-95.lv.lv.cox.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
01:24-!-chrswk [~chrswk@213.188.55.184] has joined #openttd
02:15-!-ATS63 [~oftc-webi@88.95.96.58.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #openttd
02:18-!-Hazzard_ [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
02:18-!-Hazzard_ [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
02:18<ATS63>Say what are the better 4-way train junctions? I'm having congestion issues with a cloverleaf... atm have 37 trains queued because of it. I have also used a different elevation for X & Y directions, so there were less climbs at the intersection
02:21-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6B21C.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
02:22-!-Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:27-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@88.130.191.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:31<V453000>ATS63: build 3-way junctions instead so you can expand them :)
02:31<V453000>4-way junctions are usually not expandable at all
02:31<V453000>also, realistic acceleration model does not have problems with climbing hills if you have strong trains :P
02:32<ATS63>hmm, thats an interesting point... 3 ways would probably fix it
02:33<ATS63>I'm running double engined x2001's at the moment @ 7 cars. Should I have more engines?
02:35<ATS63>In the process of migrating to maglev. Progressive rail set makes it so much easier
02:36<@planetmaker>moin
02:36<@planetmaker>2 engines for 7 cars should be more than enough
02:38<V453000>well, X2001 isnt very good at accelerating ever :)
02:40<ATS63>Really? Double engined x2001's seemed faster than a millenium z1. Although I didn't double engine the z1
02:40<V453000>Lev3 should be fine with 2 engines for 7 wagons ... what I wonder is why do you have odd number of vehicles if even is full tiles? :P
02:40<V453000>well z1 is just worse, doesnt make x2001 good :P
02:41<ATS63>x2001 seemed to me the better monorail engine
02:41<V453000>it is.
02:41<ATS63>V453000: thats just the trains in the queue, not the actual train count
02:41<V453000>but in the bigger picture it is still bad :P
02:41<ATS63>I haven't done vaccum tube before. This game I have it on
02:42<V453000>:D:D:D
02:42<V453000>well, I do consider that newgrf just plain stupid but enjoy :)
02:43<ATS63>the queue over this cloverleaf is so bad that... sometimes it'll queue back down the mainline so several other stations are jammed :(
02:44<V453000>image is worth a thousand words :P
02:44<V453000>show me a screenshot so I can tell you what to fix
02:45<V453000>very likely the cloverleaf is simply borked, we call it join before split - new trains join the line before other trains left it, causing deadlocks
02:47<@peter1138>lar de dar
02:47<@peter1138>what to fix: don't build cloverleafs.
02:48<V453000>^
02:48<V453000>that is for sure :)
02:48<V453000>starting with something like this (preferably with the tracks more spaced out) http://blog.openttdcoop.org/files/blog/V453000/hubs_3way.png
02:48<V453000>is never a bad thing
02:50-!-DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
02:51<@peter1138>Hmm, just larger enough to avoid the kinks...
02:52<@peter1138>"Just larger enough" is a horrible phrase :)
02:52<ATS63>http://i62.tinypic.com/fxtmoh.png
02:52<@peter1138>http://oi62.tinypic.com/fxtmoh.jpg
02:52<@peter1138>To avoid the shitty website.
02:53<@peter1138>Hmm, it's *still* scaled down :(
02:53<ATS63>Yea I couldn't find a good image dump :(
02:53<V453000>get dropbox :)
02:54<ATS63>droopbox you say... okay
02:54<@peter1138>imgur doesn't fuck with your raw images, or indeed dropbox.
02:54<V453000>but yeah, just apply what I already told you, get a 3-way junction and replace all 4-ways
02:54<V453000>your 3-ways would be better off with the design I shown, too
02:55<@peter1138>Those sharp bends are awful for performance too.
02:56<V453000>I am afraid he uses original acceleration model :
02:56<V453000>:|
02:56<@peter1138>Aren't they awful in that too?
02:56<V453000>not quite
02:57<@planetmaker>no. slopes matter more with original acceleration
02:57<@peter1138>Hmm, or did maglevs have magical instant turning ability...
02:57<V453000>in original acceleration all curves hurt, almost no matter how short ... so dealing with them quickly is best :D
02:57<V453000>but slopes outright kill all trains, like down to 30 km/h from 643kmh
02:57<V453000>why not :D
02:58<ATS63>oooh... I didn't even realise that setting exists... changed it and it makes a good impact
03:00<@peter1138>Bah, silly computer. When I suspend it, Teamspeak's window disappears :S
03:03<@peter1138>"Don't steal from secondary and tertiary industries!" What a silly rule.
03:03<ATS63>I always learn a few things when I come here. Thanks for the tips guys :D
03:04<ATS63>One other thing tho... am I the only person who cheats with stations? Say you have an industry just out of reach of a station... you build a bus/truck station next to it, and continue doing so, then demolish them - so there is a gap but they're the same station
03:05<@planetmaker>you're not alone in doing so, ATS63
03:06<V453000>try using control+click to get the distant one instantly :P
03:06<@planetmaker>also: why else would that possibility be present, if no-one would have wanted it in the first place? :)
03:06<@planetmaker>and ctrl+click is the easier way ;)
03:06<@planetmaker>to make this cheat easier :P
03:07<ATS63>Ahh didn't know that
03:08<@peter1138>Oh my god that stinks
03:08<@peter1138>Bloody dog :(
03:10<@peter1138>Oh gosh, that 1.4.1 intro screen is WAY too busy...
03:11<@planetmaker>you didn't participate in voting. It was a very close call.
03:11<V453000>HA :D there you have it
03:11<@peter1138>Frankly, anything other than the ancient one feels wrong.
03:12<@peter1138>OpenTTD to me is defined by those WHOOWHOO TINKTINKTINK HONK HONK on start up :p
03:12<V453000>XD
03:12<V453000>that I can relate to
03:12<@peter1138>There's a bit of everything but not this horrible flood of road vehicles.
03:12<V453000>sounds disabled for the last X years though :P
03:13<@peter1138>Enable sounds, play 1.4.1, cringe.
03:13<@peter1138>I used to fight to stop the music, now I want to fight to stop the sounds :(
03:15<SpComb>please don't stop the music
03:17<V453000>I think you would have to be psycho to listen to the same sounds for years :P
03:17<V453000>+music
03:25-!-smbdaft [~smb@174.84.239.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:35<Supercheese>I listen to the original TTD music all the time
03:36<Supercheese>it's very good
03:38<V453000>it is very good, but all the time sounds insane
03:39<Supercheese>it is approximately 3% of my "leave on all the time on shuffle" playlist
03:39<@peter1138>Listening to my favourite music constantly very rapidly makes it not my favourite any more...
03:39<Supercheese>50/1762 songs
03:40<Supercheese>the 50 comes from the different recordings out there
03:40<@peter1138>Do you have the real-band recordings?
03:41<Supercheese>all that I can find
03:41<Supercheese>which is probably not all
03:41<@peter1138>Ah, it's just the TTD theme, heh
03:41<@peter1138>http://www.transporttycoon.net/music?recording=9 :D
03:41<Supercheese>Emre Meydan - Transport Tycoon intro theme
03:42<Supercheese>is that it, oh let me check
03:42<Supercheese>yes it is
03:43-!-kiz [kiz@akane.kizzard.net] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.]
03:44-!-kiz [kiz@akane.kizzard.net] has joined #openttd
03:44<@peter1138>Hurr, playing on this citybuilder malarkey
03:45<@planetmaker>there's at least half a dozen of them
03:45<@peter1138>Yes, the particular one is not relevant.
03:45<@planetmaker>might use different game scripts
03:46<@peter1138>Possible, if it's anything like that other thing from a while ago they'd be very secretive.
03:46<@planetmaker>I'd not necessarily bet on that anymore
03:46<@planetmaker>thus it depends ;)
03:48<@planetmaker>e.g. the reddit ones are quite open about what they do
03:48<@peter1138>Hmm, don't think it's for me. Kinda boring just concentrating on one 'claimed' town.
03:48<@peter1138>The reddit ones are modified, so fuck that :p
03:48<@planetmaker>not all. afaik.
03:49<@planetmaker>and afaik not server-side. But... well :)
03:49<V453000>city builders are for noobs, you deserve some proper yeti carnage peter1138
03:50<@peter1138>Is there a server running that?
03:50<V453000>yes?
03:50<@peter1138>Ok
03:50<@peter1138>"Reddit has joined the game" hah
03:51<@planetmaker>:)
03:51<V453000>openttd welcome server haz latest yeti
03:51<V453000>*coop :P
03:52<@planetmaker>but well, welcome server does not require coop :)
03:52<@peter1138>That one was an RC wasn't it?
03:52<V453000>sure, latest versions of "stable" :P
03:52<V453000>so RC now :)
03:54<@peter1138>Ah, now I need goods :p
03:56<@peter1138>Network connection lost... Oh well :p
03:56-!-LadyHawk [~LadyHawk@5751e87a.skybroadband.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
03:56-!-LadyHawk [~LadyHawk@5751e87a.skybroadband.com] has joined #openttd
03:59-!-wakou [~stephen@host86-145-17-79.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd
04:04<@peter1138>27MB of NewGRFs downloading, hah...
04:06<V453000>will be considerably more soon :P
04:06<@planetmaker>:D
04:06<@peter1138>:D
04:06<V453000>rendering some animations just now :>
04:07<Xaroth|Work>heh
04:10<@peter1138>What's the 1A 2B etc about?
04:10<V453000>just identifiers
04:10<V453000>mainly for sorting in lists
04:11<@planetmaker>Not sure they make sense in the name, V453000 :)
04:11<V453000>for sorting?
04:11<V453000>map/industry funding
04:11<@planetmaker>even then, that spoils it imho
04:12<@planetmaker>it's few enough industry types that I can manage to know the 3 types I want to look at
04:12<@planetmaker>and the letters/numbers - as just seen - are rather adding to confusion
04:12<V453000>mhm
04:12<@planetmaker>I know the intention and understand it. But I still think it's not worth it
04:13<@planetmaker>it's the textual representation of the 404 you replaced by the yeti hut
04:13<V453000>will see
04:13<@planetmaker>speaking as an analogy
04:13<@planetmaker>makes the newgrf look like a debug version
04:13<V453000>I like to have it sorted, but meh, might change it later
04:14<V453000>its like sorting vehicles in NUTS by the ID and adding similar numbers to purchase menu
04:14<V453000>just for system
04:14<@planetmaker>I know. Still ugly as-is now
04:15<@planetmaker>rather adding a new industry property which allows sorting in industry list like vehicles :)
04:16<V453000>such property doesnt exist yet I assume :)
04:16<Supercheese>not yeti
04:16<@planetmaker>it doesn't exist for industries, indeed
04:17<V453000>when it does, I might use it :P
04:18<@peter1138>V453000, "purr"?
04:19<ATS63>https://www.dropbox.com/s/tjx9v5y3i1hrgjp/Lennway-on-sea%20Transport%2C%2020th%20Nov%202030.png
04:19<ATS63>Same intersection, 3 ways instead of 4 ways
04:19<V453000>peter1138: universal tracks
04:19<Xaroth|Work>short corners
04:19<Xaroth|Work>kills speed
04:19<V453000>ATS63: why dont you use the trianglish shape I sent you :P
04:19*planetmaker associates purr with colourful tracks :P
04:19<ATS63>ahh I'll try that on another 3 way in a sec - wanted to test it first
04:20<ATS63>also there is a room limitation
04:20<Xaroth|Work>rule of thumb, if a single train is on more than one corner (so the length between corners is shorter than the length of the train) it causes them to slow down
04:20<Xaroth|Work>now with maglev that's not -that- much of an issue, but with slower trains where it takes them a year to get to full speed...
04:21<ATS63>Xaroth|Work: yea I was playing on orig accel, but that seems true for realistic... I'll have to upgrade quite a few junctions for that :(
04:21<Xaroth|Work>true that
04:27<V453000>RAGE QUIT :D
04:27<@peter1138>No, just realised it's past 9am...
04:27<V453000>:)
04:27<@peter1138>Meant to be working
04:33<ATS63>Also I'm mostly not maglev... just maglev tracks and progressive rail set... so far
04:33<Xaroth|Work>wait what?
04:33<Xaroth|Work>what is this 'work' you speak of, peter1138
04:33<ATS63>I just caused a crash upgrading a junction so two new lev1's, heh
04:48<ATS63>Do slopes slow down trains in realistic at all? I was using gradual step ups with original, are they necessary?
04:50<ATS63>Also it appears to be the 3rd bend that slows a train in realistic... 2 seems okay
04:50<V453000>they do but it actually depends on how strong/heavy trains are
04:50<ATS63>https://www.dropbox.com/s/q2c4r25p4jbn5uf/Lennway-on-sea%20Transport%2C%2015th%20Apr%202032.png
04:51<V453000>here is a small hint on curves http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Max_Curve_Speed
04:56<ATS63>ahh that makes sense! cheers again!
04:58<V453000>yw
05:00-!-Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd
05:01-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6B21C.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
05:02<ATS63>Yet another question
05:03-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6B21C.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
05:03<ATS63>Whats your take on map size & generation? I was playing with huge maps, now I'm just doing 256x256... seems more challenging. I also have towns on low, sea on low, terrain on flat
05:03<V453000>I personally love 256x256
05:03<V453000>reasonable maximum for one person is 512x512
05:04<V453000>reasonable maximum for 15 companies is 1024x512
05:04<ATS63>I was playing 4096 on one player :P
05:04<V453000>no point, your cpu just suffers and you cant possibly use the whole map anyway
05:04<V453000>:)
05:04<ATS63>Was too hard to manage big networks
05:05<ATS63>TTD uses almost no cpu anyway, heh
05:05<V453000>wait till you have 1000+ trains
05:05<V453000>and industry newGRFs alone can demolish your CPU with a large map
05:05<ATS63>1000+? on 256x256?
05:06<V453000>sure?
05:06<V453000>well, with normal sized ones 500 is good on 256x256
05:06<V453000>small ones, 1000 is easy
05:06<ATS63>I have 102 atm, thats hard to manage
05:06<V453000>keep playing :P
05:06<@peter1138>:)
05:07<ATS63>money seems a bit senseless later in the game... sitting on 242 million
05:07<V453000>it is. :)
05:07<V453000>building awesome networks is what isnt senseless
05:08<ATS63>True that
05:08<ATS63>Whats the highest date you've ever ran until?
05:08<ATS63>Would be about 2100 for me, but I gave up on those games from too much bad design
05:09<V453000>3000 something probably
05:09<ATS63>heh
05:09<ATS63>must resemble the demo map
05:10<V453000>I wouldnt say that but you can check yourself
05:10<V453000>http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/ProZone:Archive_-_Games_21_-_30#gameid_2013
05:11<V453000>will need http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/GRF
05:11<V453000>ok well 2867
05:11<V453000>and started 2050
05:11<V453000>but yeah, 800 years is probably my longest game :)
05:14<ATS63>whoa
05:15<@peter1138>I blame the idiot that introduced long dates...
05:15<V453000>XD why
05:16<@peter1138>Dunno, guess it just seemed a good idea at the time :p
05:16<V453000>peter1138: arent you working? :P
05:16<V453000>long dates dont hurt anything ? :P
05:16<@peter1138>Yes yes, waiting for a compile...
05:17-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6B21C.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
05:17<ATS63>https://www.dropbox.com/s/zoav3r8ifp22dy8/Lennway-on-sea%20Transport%2C%2015th%20Apr%202032%231.png
05:17<ATS63>I'm a fair way off :P
05:18-!-LadyHawk [~LadyHawk@5751e87a.skybroadband.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
05:18<V453000>you can get there, perhaps not with this game, or with the next one, but sometime :)
05:18-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6B21C.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
05:18-!-LadyHawk [~LadyHawk@5751e87a.skybroadband.com] has joined #openttd
05:18<V453000>if you want to learn, just come join our servers at openttdcoop, there are many other people who know how to build
05:19<ATS63>ahh I pause too much for multiplayer :D
05:19<V453000>pause? why
05:20<V453000>it is a habit you can probably get rid of :P
05:20<ATS63>Experience the game more. I'd miss new vehicles if I didn't, they'd be obsolete by the time I get back
05:20<V453000>ah, well servers pause when people arent there
05:20<V453000>and we use train sets which have new vehicles for 200 years
05:21<V453000>so not a big deal if you miss a few :P
05:22<ATS63>I probably should unpause for a bit cause this congestion problem with the junction will probably take 10 years to clear :/
05:23<V453000>see, you can learn to not have congestions :P
05:23<ATS63>I try, lel
05:24<V453000>k k :P
05:24<V453000>if you had more questions just feel free to ask
05:24<V453000>http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/ProZone:Archive_-_Games_21_-_30#gameid_23 this is a very standard kind of game I like to play on 256x256
05:27<V453000>note: the trains can have so short curves because they can travel through it with full speed
05:27<V453000>NUTS Unrealistic Train Set has plenty of similar trains
05:27<V453000>lets you build dense :)
05:29<ATS63>Ahh interesting. I haven't been able to find a good trainset
05:49-!-MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd
05:51-!-Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:a5ee:e5c0:df7:5ef1] has joined #openttd
06:03<V453000>well arguably there is only one :P
06:05<@planetmaker>:P
06:11-!-kero [~keikoz@37.175.19.180] has joined #openttd
06:18<Eddi|zuHause>i played a 2048x2048 game with very few towns once, anly covered half of the map...
06:59-!-LSky` [LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd
07:32-!-Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:32-!-Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has joined #openttd
07:46-!-Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54f816-197.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:57-!-KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:58-!-KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd
08:09-!-yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd
08:22-!-Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54f816-197.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd
09:21-!-luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck
09:44-!-chrswk [~chrswk@213.188.55.184] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:11-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6B21C.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
10:17-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6B21C.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:57-!-Jinassi [~Jinassi@0001ec72.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
10:59-!-ATS63 [~oftc-webi@88.95.96.58.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:13-!-mrdaft [~mrdaft@174.84.239.58] has joined #openttd
11:30-!-montalvo [~montalvo@ip24-253-22-95.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #openttd
11:46-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1BA14.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
11:50-!-Mucht [~Martin@000128e2.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
11:51-!-Mucht [~Martin@000128e2.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
11:51-!-glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
11:51-!-mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
11:54<Eddi|zuHause>i think i'm done now... www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Bildschirmfoto26.png
11:55<Rubidium>almost...
11:58<@planetmaker>the game clearly is mis-named
11:58<@planetmaker>should be 131072 instead of 2048
11:58<@planetmaker>or so
11:59<Rubidium>only a small fraction will ever reach 2048; way too many will not get it and simply fail to reach anything large-ish
11:59<@planetmaker>I think I stopped at 65k or so
12:00<Eddi|zuHause>that's only like one quarter of the game
12:00<@planetmaker>yes
12:00<@planetmaker>but the other 3 quarters are the same ;)
12:00<@planetmaker>nearly
12:00<Eddi|zuHause>not even close
12:01<Eddi|zuHause>the last quarter is way more difficult
12:01<@planetmaker>yes it is. But still the same
12:02<Eddi|zuHause>but you can say the same about reaching 2048
12:02<Eddi|zuHause>"it's all the same afterwards"
12:02<@planetmaker>yes. it is :)
12:03<Eddi|zuHause>chess is also all the same after a few moves
12:03<@planetmaker>that's not so true :)
12:04<Eddi|zuHause>tetris is all the same after a while
12:04<@planetmaker>that's true again ;)
12:04-!-HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6B21C.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
12:04<Eddi|zuHause>or openttd :)
12:05<@planetmaker>that's somewhere between chess and tetris on the repetition level ;)
12:06<Eddi|zuHause>anyway... anyone calculated the theoretical maximum score?
12:08<@planetmaker>wouldn't that be what your image shows?
12:11<Eddi|zuHause>no
12:11<Eddi|zuHause>you get less score for each 4 you get
12:12<Eddi|zuHause>because you miss the score from combining two 2s
12:14<Eddi|zuHause>so in an average game you miss 4*(number of moves)*(probability of a 4 appearing) score
12:23-!-TheMask96 [martijn@gluttony.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:29-!-TheMask96 [martijn@wrath.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd
12:33<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: isn't the max score on wikipedia?
12:33<Eddi|zuHause>i didn't look...
12:34<Rubidium>3932100 says wikipedia (NL)
12:35-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d0099b4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
12:39-!-pthagnar [~pthagnar@cpc7-pres17-2-0-cust28.18-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
12:40<Eddi|zuHause>@calc (3932100-3885748)/131072/4
12:40<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 0.0884094238281
12:40<@planetmaker>why /4 ?
12:41<Eddi|zuHause>from the 4 score you'd get from combining two 2s
12:46<Eddi|zuHause>anyway, 8,8% is probably a close estimate for the probability of a 4 appearing
12:46<Eddi|zuHause>i'm sure there's the exact value in the code
12:47<Rubidium>var value = Math.random() < 0.9 ? 2 : 4;
12:47<@planetmaker>hm, didn't there appear any 1?
12:48<Eddi|zuHause>no
12:48<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: so 9%
12:49<Eddi|zuHause>oh no, 10%
12:49<Eddi|zuHause>i guess i was lucky then
12:49<Rubidium>... or your browser's random isn't really random
12:50<@planetmaker>sorry... have to quote it: http://xkcd.com/221/
12:50<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: usally bad random generators have correlation, but bad flat distribution is really rare
12:52<Eddi|zuHause>well it's also possible my formula is off
12:52<Eddi|zuHause>because each 4 additionally reduces the number of moves
13:02<@peter1138>So how do you managed that?
13:02<@peter1138>I always stuck with 2s in the wrong place
13:04<frosch123>he uses the firefox debugger
13:08-!-sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.137.74.191] has joined #openttd
13:11<Eddi|zuHause>no, way simpler than that
13:11<@peter1138>oh?
13:12<Eddi|zuHause>the game saves your current progress, so if you open a second tab, you get a state to go back to, once it screws you over...
13:13<@peter1138>Don't you have to do that for EVERY move?
13:13<@peter1138>Well, nearly.
13:13<Eddi|zuHause>no, every 1000 moves at most...
13:13<@peter1138>True, you can just redo it.
13:16<Rubidium>just mod the code a bit to always drop the 2 in the most useable location, and only create 4s when it's the last empty tile and there is no adjoining 2
13:17<Eddi|zuHause>where's the fun in that? :p
13:18<Eddi|zuHause>make a "play the game for me" button :)
13:18<frosch123>copy and paste could also be handy
13:22<Rubidium>rather an undo knob ;)
13:28-!-Lars [~Lars@0x55512b16.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd
13:30<Lars>Hey; any experts in developing OpenTTD here? :)
13:31<Xaroth|Work> you'd expect, that there are openttd devs in the official openttd channel
13:31<Xaroth|Work>but i might be mistaken
13:31<Xaroth|Work>I'd personally ask TrueBrain, he might know if such a crowd resides here
13:32<Eddi|zuHause>but are they _experts_?
13:32<Xaroth|Work>well yeah, that too is a good question
13:32<Lars>Well, asked, not expected :)
13:33<TrueBrain>experts in developing OpenTTD .. hmm ...
13:33<TrueBrain>now that is a tricky question
13:33<TrueBrain>as they perse don't develop
13:33<TrueBrain>they are just experts at their field
13:33<TrueBrain>hmmm
13:33<TrueBrain>I have to sleep on that question for a bit
13:33<Lars>;)
13:34<Xaroth|Work>see, our resident expert of answering such questions even has issues with that one
13:34<Lars>LOL! :D
13:34<Eddi|zuHause>@seen experts
13:34<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: I have not seen experts.
13:34<TrueBrain>@seen dickheads
13:34<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: I have not seen dickheads.
13:34<TrueBrain>well, I see plenty
13:35<Rubidium>I think most "experts" are experts in not doing anything regarding openttd development lately
13:35<TrueBrain>you carry truth there obiwan
13:36<TrueBrain>Lars: on a more serious note, I suggest you read our topic; part 3 mostly :
13:37<TrueBrain>@topic get 3
13:37<@DorpsGek>TrueBrain: Don't ask to ask, just ask
13:37<TrueBrain>ha, I remembered! \o/
13:39<Lars>TrueBrain: That was a useful hint :)
13:39<TrueBrain>that is why it is in a topic :)
13:40<Lars>Yes, and I even read the topic, but obviously not careful enough.
13:40<TrueBrain>hehe
13:41*Rubidium wonders who TrueBrain would be if I were obiwan
13:42<TrueBrain>do you? really?
13:43<Rubidium>I'd reckon you'd be at least a jedi master
13:44<Rubidium>I'd reckon orudge to be yoda (yay seniority)
13:45<Rubidium>I'd reckon DV to be mace windu (leaders)
13:45<@DorpsGek>Commit by translators :: r26690 /trunk/src/lang (catalan.txt spanish.txt) (2014-07-16 17:45:33 UTC)
13:45<@DorpsGek>-Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
13:45<@DorpsGek>catalan - 4 changes by juanjo
13:45<@DorpsGek>spanish - 5 changes by juanjo
13:45<Eddi|zuHause>i'd rather have said TrueBrain is Han Solo
13:46<Eddi|zuHause>which would make DorpsGek Chewie
13:46<Rubidium>Tron would probably be a sith lords (darth vader?)
13:46<frosch123>hmm, so i am jar jar bings?
13:47<frosch123>rather the neighbour
13:47<Xaroth|Work>either jar jar or Leia
13:47<Rubidium>frosch123: or do you want to be jabba the hutt ("His appearance has been described by film critic Roger Ebert as a cross between a toad and the Cheshire Cat")
13:47<Xaroth|Work>take your pick.
13:48<Eddi|zuHause>no. Jar Jar binks is a mixture of SirXavius, Leanden, SkiddLow and PeterT
13:49<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: i think tron would be grievous
13:50<Diablo-D3>george lucas is ultimate troll
13:50<Diablo-D3>people talk about jar jar over ten years after his creation
13:51<frosch123>http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110417133013/o4e/images/c/cd/Gungan,_Ankura.jpg <- that one?
13:51<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: context?
13:52<frosch123>looks like a frog with teeth to me
13:52<Eddi|zuHause>that is not jabba :)
13:52<frosch123>no, but jabba looks like a worm to me
13:53<Diablo-D3>jabba's species are hermaprhodites
13:53<Eddi|zuHause>do you want to be the resident sexist now?
13:54<Eddi|zuHause>(with people constructing a difference between "sex" and "gender" nowadays, are there also "sexists" and "genderists"?)
13:55<TrueBrain>pfft, racist!
13:56<Eddi|zuHause>i'm defiinitely one of the guys who built the clone army
13:57<Eddi|zuHause>building an army generator script sounds like the thing i would do :)
14:02*Rubidium still wonders what Lars would've tried to asked this "expert"
14:02<TrueBrain>I am sure he now double checked this was not StarWars United channel
14:03-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd
14:03-!-gelignite [~gelignite@i5387AEC7.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
14:04<Lars>Rubidium: Due to some sillynes I want to develop a few things, and would ask about how to maybe in the future get it into the trunk :)
14:05*andythenorth creates static/var
14:05<andythenorth>and the world implodes
14:06<Rubidium>posting it on the bug tracker is usually the way, although lately not many developers have had the time to actually do something constructive
14:06<Rubidium>fixes for bugs are very very welcome though ;)
14:07<Rubidium>though it all depends on the quality, sanity and usefulness of the patch
14:09<Diablo-D3>[01:53:56] <Eddi|zuHause> do you want to be the resident sexist now?
14:09<Diablo-D3>[01:55:06] <Eddi|zuHause> (with people constructing a difference between "sex" and "gender" nowadays, are there also "sexists" and "genderists"?)
14:09<Diablo-D3>I dont get why people get confused about sex or gender
14:09<Diablo-D3>They are outdated concepts generated by a post-WW2 America.
14:09<Diablo-D3>This is why feminists disgust me
14:09<Diablo-D3>They keep pushing these ideas when they've been proven wrong.
14:10<TrueBrain>nothing wrong with a feminist .. when they are chained to a kitchen *high five*
14:10<Diablo-D3>Anyone who is for woman's rights or gay rights or non-white rights should be shot
14:11<Eddi|zuHause>the discussion must have taken a wrong turn at albuquerque
14:11<Diablo-D3>Only terrorists put something else above the rights of a human being.
14:11<Rubidium>pff... gender is really simple in primates. X-X chromosome: male, X-Y chromosome: female. Having said that, genetics is a stupid way to classify people.
14:11<Diablo-D3>Rubidium: yeah and what happens when you have those that arent xx or xy
14:11<Lars>Rubidium: Ok :)
14:11<Eddi|zuHause>XXX or XYY are not that uncommon
14:11<Diablo-D3>Rubidium: or are xx and xy but have different physical attributes
14:12<frosch123>Rubidium: the other way around
14:12<frosch123>the gender of the child is the fault of the father
14:13<Diablo-D3>frosch123: he didnt say otherwise
14:13<Diablo-D3>Anyhow, it is the basic human right that someone can fuck or be fucked by anyone of their choosing
14:13<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: that is totally not the point of sexism...
14:14<TrueBrain>except for when they are under the age of 16 plz
14:14<Eddi|zuHause>(or feminism, for that matter)
14:14<Diablo-D3>man on woman, man on man, woman on woman, natural dickgirl in an orgy, black, white, indian, asian, south american,
14:14<Rubidium>furthermore, I think anyone should be treated equally. That is... no more separate clauses for females (e.g. womens soccer), no more separate clauses for religions (e.g. not liking to pay for birth control or not providing rape kits), ...
14:14<Diablo-D3>Rubidium: exactly
14:14<Diablo-D3>and the hilarious part is
14:14<Diablo-D3>this is the world Jesus strived to create
14:14<Diablo-D3>where all humans are equal no matter their attributes
14:14<andythenorth>did Jesus like trains?
14:15<Diablo-D3>yeah, why is this going on in #openttd?
14:15<Eddi|zuHause># i like trains
14:15<Diablo-D3>take your troll shit somewhere else guys
14:15<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: my third favourite video
14:15<frosch123>yeah, and men should be required to become pregnant
14:15<andythenorth>this is pretty
14:15<andythenorth>repo_root = os.path.join(os.path.dirname( __file__ ), '..', '..', '..')
14:16<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: should watch the rest of asdfmovie :)
14:16<Diablo-D3>andythenorth: lol.
14:17<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: wtf would you need to know that for?
14:17<Rubidium>frosch123: at least those not bearing child should get the same [mp]aternity leave as the one bearing child (after all, no more separate clauses)
14:17<andythenorth>gets a path to some tools
14:17<andythenorth>not an ottd-related project
14:17<andythenorth>it’s ugly though
14:17<Diablo-D3>Rubidium: nordic countries do that now
14:17<Diablo-D3>it improves the health and well being of the child
14:18-!-kero [~keikoz@37.175.19.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:18<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: at least over here, that's already possible.
14:18<Diablo-D3>I wish america would pick it up
14:18<Diablo-D3>although, then again, it'd imply men would stop being absent fathers.
14:18<Diablo-D3>which, meh, fuck america
14:19<Diablo-D3>actually, dont fuck america, this is what caused the problem in the first place
14:21<Rubidium>part of america is on the right way
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>there was a funny court case recently. there was a couple who had twins, and one parent took the 12 months off for the one child, and the other one took the 12 months off for the other child. then they switched, and both took the additional 2 months off for being the other parent which didn't take the 12 months
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>the court decided this was legal
14:21<Eddi|zuHause>the time off is per child, not per birth
14:21<Rubidium>it's just that it's not the part between the two that are doing fairly well (Cuba and Canada)
14:21<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: so the trick is
14:21<Diablo-D3>to have quintumplets
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: that would only help if you have 5 parents to take the time off
14:22<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: time off must be directly after birth, it can't be delayed to add up
14:22<Diablo-D3>ahh, a harem. hrm
14:22<Diablo-D3>that could work.
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>polygamy is not legal
14:23<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: so one twin every 14 months and you don't have to work anymore...
14:23<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: pretty much
14:23-!-moffi [~moffi@dsdf-4db51c2f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd
14:23<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: polygamy is kinda pointless anyway; just don't marry & problem solved
14:24<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: you'd also go insane from not meeting people, and "no work" is an euphemism wrt caring about children, but whatever
14:24<andythenorth>Eddi|zuHause: I think you confuse ‘euphemism’ and ‘lie induced by smoking crack'
14:24<Rubidium>give them up for adoption?
14:25<Eddi|zuHause>Rubidium: what could work is having 6 women, getting each pregnant every 12 months, in 2 month intervals. then each woman can take the 12 months, and you can take the additional 2 months
14:26<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think you have to be married to get the additional 2 months
14:27<Rubidium>hmm.... sperm donor?
14:27<Diablo-D3>huh
14:27<Diablo-D3>I could be a stay at home dad
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>but that's only worth it if you had a decent-but-not-too-decent job before
14:27<Eddi|zuHause>you get a % of your last wage, but capped at a maximum
14:28-!-kero [~keikoz@37.175.19.180] has joined #openttd
14:28<Eddi|zuHause>(how the hell did we get here from "obiwan"?)
14:29<Rubidium>can you be laid off in such a situation?
14:29<Rubidium>via jabba the hutt
14:29<andythenorth>is there a gif for this?
14:30<Eddi|zuHause>no, you can't be laid off during this time, and you are guaranteed to get your job back
14:31-!-Klanticus_ [~quassel@179.159.11.64] has joined #openttd
14:31<Lars>Where are you from, this discussion is probably pretty country-depend ;)
14:32<Eddi|zuHause>well certainly not the USA :p
14:32<Diablo-D3>yah the USA is like
14:32<Lars>Me neither, Denmark here :)
14:32<Diablo-D3>YOU WERENT AN HOUR EARLY FOR JOB
14:32<Diablo-D3>FIRED
14:32<andythenorth>I need to make FIRS go faster
14:33<Diablo-D3>so, Im wondering
14:33<Diablo-D3>in grfs
14:33<Diablo-D3>are introduction dates in ticks?
14:33<Eddi|zuHause>well, here in germany you have to steal candy to the value of 1.2¢ to get fired
14:34<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: no, in days
14:34<kero>andythenorth : "faster" ?
14:34<andythenorth>compile
14:34<Diablo-D3>okay, so what would be the side effect of changing the ratio of ticks to days?
14:34<kero>Oh, yes :)
14:34<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: loads...
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: look at the 20 daylength topics in the development forum, and the 200-ish at the suggestions forum
14:35<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: I havent seen threads on it
14:35<Eddi|zuHause>then you haven't looked for them
14:35<andythenorth>I only wish there were even more daylength discussions
14:36<andythenorth>then I could spend more time reading them
14:36<andythenorth>just as people want to spend more time waiting for trains to arrive
14:36<andythenorth>daylength is for fuckwits
14:36*andythenorth proposes
14:36<andythenorth>anyone dissent?
14:36<Diablo-D3>I'd like to see day length be customizable
14:37<kero>andythenorth : indeed, a lot of redundant compiling in FIRS
14:37<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: issues range from various internal counters overflowing (e.g. AI start interval) over people disagreeing on whether industry production should be scaled as well, to towns shrinking
14:38<andythenorth>kero: redundant?
14:38<andythenorth>as in, there’s no partial compile?
14:38<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: how many ticks per day?
14:38<kero>I mean, recompiling already compiled and unchanged code
14:38<kero>1min53secs here for a build
14:38<kero>(e.g: language files)
14:38<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: 74 by default
14:39<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: so basically whats screwing things up is things that count days and not ticks
14:39<Diablo-D3>which could be easily fixed
14:39<Eddi|zuHause>"easily"?
14:39<kero>Unfortunately, I'm unable to help you on that :(
14:39<Eddi|zuHause>you clearly haven't looked at the code base
14:39<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: conceptually easy
14:39<andythenorth>conceptually easy is faking the date
14:39<andythenorth>in the UI
14:39<Diablo-D3>andythenorth: heh
14:39<andythenorth>but eh
14:40<andythenorth>wtf is the point of daylength?
14:40<Diablo-D3>that'd cause problems with introduction dates
14:40*Diablo-D3 wonders how hard it'd be to rewrite openttd top to bottom
14:40<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: spend more time with steam trains, without denieing technological progress completely.
14:40<kero>Having been through the code in this days, I think really a lot.
14:41<Rubidium>Diablo-D3: I reckon it'd be impossible
14:41*Diablo-D3 should do some research into this
14:41<Diablo-D3>Rubidium: well, it'd be impossible if I want to retain compatibility
14:41<Diablo-D3>Im wondering if its time to introduce semi-3D graphics
14:41<andythenorth>daylength is bollocks
14:41<andythenorth>it’s the most-requested, least-wanted feature
14:41<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: oloh lists the probable value
14:42<Rubidium>because every decision you make to remove significant limitations moves it one step further from openttd and closer to e.g. locomotion, simutrans or any other transport simulator
14:42<andythenorth>if anybody actually cared they would have patched a newgrf for it by now
14:42<andythenorth>like they have for capacities, FIRS compatibility, speed etc
14:42<Diablo-D3>Rubidium: and theres nothing wrong with that
14:42<andythenorth>but nobody can be arsed to simply change intro dates in a newgrf
14:42<andythenorth>ergo nobody actually wants daylength
14:42<andythenorth>it’s bollocks
14:42<Diablo-D3>well day length could be interesting if we had day/night cycles
14:43<Rubidium>Diablo-D3: but then it's not an openttd rewrite, but writing a new transport simulator maybe spiritually inspired by openttd
14:43<Diablo-D3>Rubidium: yeah basically.
14:43<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: it's like going back in time to change a decision you made. once you established the possibility of this, you want to change so many things that the present won't even be recognizable anymore
14:43<andythenorth>day-night cycles means every newgrf would need to update for compatibilty
14:43<Rubidium>ergo... not being an openttd rewrite and my conclusion it's impossible
14:43<andythenorth>ergo ergo
14:43<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: it still could be interesting
14:44<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: no, it won't be.
14:45<Diablo-D3>well, what if it made ttd-style gameplay accessible to a wider audience?
14:45<Eddi|zuHause>it won't do that either
14:46<Eddi|zuHause>because you might as well just give openttd to this audience
14:47<Diablo-D3>yeah, but openttd seems limited in places because no one ever thought openttd should do something
14:47<Rubidium>anyhow, join smallfly
14:51<Eddi|zuHause>@seen smallfly
14:51<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: smallfly was last seen in #openttd 43 weeks, 6 days, 4 hours, 58 minutes, and 46 seconds ago: <smallfly> hey :)
14:51<Eddi|zuHause>doesn't look very promising
14:52<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: well, go run a kickstarter campaign, see how many full-time programmers you can hire with that money
14:52<Diablo-D3>heh
14:52<Diablo-D3>kickstarter demands working prototypes
14:53<frosch123>otherwise they start kicking?
14:54-!-kero [~keikoz@37.175.19.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:55<andythenorth># I like trains http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=489719&nseq=0
14:56-!-moffi [~moffi@dsdf-4db51c2f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de]
14:56<Diablo-D3>andythenorth: I wish I knew how long that train is
14:57<Diablo-D3>must be miles long if it has 7 engines
14:57<Rubidium>you can make an educated guess, since it's 7100 tons
14:58<Diablo-D3>Rubidium: how do you know that?
14:58<Rubidium>apparantly also a 2.2% gradient, so extra engines might not be a bad ideaa
14:58<Diablo-D3>and how do you know that?
14:58<andythenorth>it’s only 7,100 tons, might be 50 or 70 cars
14:58<andythenorth>might be 100
14:59<Diablo-D3>>100 cars
14:59<andythenorth>depends how many empty
14:59<Diablo-D3>holy shit
14:59<andythenorth>US cars are ~120t
14:59<Rubidium>Diablo-D3: it's called reading
14:59<Diablo-D3>Rubidium: oh I didnt see anything below that
14:59<Diablo-D3>small screen
14:59<andythenorth>the engeines are there for braking
14:59<andythenorth>engines *
15:00<Diablo-D3>braking?
15:00<andythenorth>so it doesn’t end up in someone’s house in Laurel
15:00<andythenorth>or Bozeman or wherever
15:00*Diablo-D3 isnt a trainophile like some people in here
15:00<andythenorth>it’s a down-grade
15:01<Diablo-D3>yeah but how can an engine brake at the front of the train?
15:01<Diablo-D3>wouldnt the mass of the cars behind it just keep going and derail?
15:01<Eddi|zuHause><andythenorth> so it doesn’t end up in someone’s house in Laurel <-- didn't the canadians have trouble with that a while ago?
15:02<andythenorth>trains crash most days in the US
15:02<Diablo-D3>I always thought cars themselves could brake too
15:02<andythenorth>Diablo-D3: both
15:02<Rubidium>Diablo-D3: there generally isn't enough momentum in the later wagons to trigger derailing
15:02<andythenorth>but you have limited air
15:02<andythenorth>if you use your air, you’re screwed
15:02<andythenorth>so you use the engine
15:02<andythenorth>if the engines can pull 7,100 tons up a 2.2% grade, they can also stop it going down, right?
15:03<andythenorth>assuming that the speed doesn’t increase too high
15:03<andythenorth>and they don’t lose traction
15:03<Diablo-D3>so its just riding the brakes on the way down
15:03<Diablo-D3>?
15:03<Rubidium>exactly that... which is why they kinda require more for the way down that strictly needed to pull it up the hill
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you generally have bigger forces when braking
15:03<andythenorth>it rides the dynamics
15:03<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: you definitely want to go from 100 to 0 in less time it takes you from 0 to 100
15:04<Supercheese>they'll use the handbrake when they want to drift around corners :P
15:04<Diablo-D3>wat.
15:04<andythenorth>Supercheese: too close to the truth :P
15:04<Diablo-D3>why am I reminded of that two track drifting jpg
15:04<Rubidium>and... with accelerating, assuming you braked before, you are first pulling the first wagons removing slack from the couplings and such, so you get them in motion basically one-by-one
15:05<andythenorth>not if you stretch braked
15:05<Eddi|zuHause>you un-stretch by going backward a step
15:05<Rubidium>when breaking you slow down the first wagon and the rest kinda comes "crashing" in
15:05<Diablo-D3>but still, wouldnt you want an engine at the rear to help with braking?
15:05<andythenorth>rubidium set 10% air on the cars
15:05<andythenorth>then stop in run 1
15:05<Rubidium>Diablo-D3: who says there isn't an engine in the rear, or somewhere in between
15:05<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: that's true if the wagons are not braking themselves
15:06<Diablo-D3>Rubidium: because ... openttd never does that? =/
15:06<andythenorth>an engine at the rear isn’t so good for braking
15:06<Rubidium>for steep slopes they usually add helper engines which they remove after the slope (at least for very long cross-country trips)
15:06<andythenorth>might overload the couplers, you get a runaway if a knuckle breaks
15:06<Rubidium>Diablo-D3: in openttd there are no steep slopes
15:06<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: but if the extra engines are meant to provide air for braking, it doesn't matter that much
15:06<Diablo-D3>Rubidium: Ive made them ;)
15:07<Rubidium>rising 30 meters over 600+ kilometer is effectively flat
15:07<Diablo-D3>chugga chugga chugga.... stop.
15:07-!-kero [~keikoz@37.175.24.101] has joined #openttd
15:07*Diablo-D3 hates when a fucking train stops
15:08<Rubidium>about 0.003 degrees incline
15:08<Diablo-D3>Rubidium: I dunno
15:08<andythenorth>we should extend newgrf spec
15:08<Diablo-D3>back to openttd its like
15:08<andythenorth>air tank capacity
15:08<Diablo-D3>I wish I had more to do
15:08<Diablo-D3>in openttd
15:08<Diablo-D3>like, different tasks
15:09<Rubidium>https://bugs.openttd.org/?do=index&project=1&type[0]=1&sev[0]=&pri[0]=&due[0]=&cat[0]=&status[0]=open&percent[0]=&reported[0]=&order=id&sort=desc <- plenty to do in openttd
15:09<Diablo-D3>Rubidium: hurrr
15:09<andythenorth>Diablo-D3: more to do than what?
15:09<Diablo-D3>I am not coding on openttd until it gets rid of all the c++
15:09<andythenorth>what do you do right now?
15:09<Diablo-D3>andythenorth: build trains and sometimes get to use vehicles
15:09<frosch123>Diablo-D3: we also have some objective c
15:09<andythenorth>Rubidium: rewite OpenTTD in PHP?
15:09<Diablo-D3>and maps are too small to use air well
15:09<Diablo-D3>air in openttd is basically dead
15:10<andythenorth>only because of stupid town limits on airports :P
15:10<Diablo-D3>well like
15:10<Diablo-D3>lets say I build an intercontinental
15:10<Diablo-D3>no matter how many planes are waiting in the landing queue
15:11<Diablo-D3>I can never fill up all 6? 8? spots loading
15:11<Diablo-D3>so pax and mail get clogged because its not efficiently using stuff
15:11<andythenorth>hmm
15:11<andythenorth>UK toy trains have got a lot better since I was a kid
15:11<andythenorth>and a *lot* more expensive
15:11<Diablo-D3>I never use air because of how fubar it is
15:12<andythenorth>ships are fubar too
15:12<Rubidium>Diablo-D3: the biggest map has a larger surface area than the sun!
15:12<andythenorth>and trams
15:12<Diablo-D3>Rubidium: depends on how big you think the map is
15:12<Diablo-D3>andythenorth: ships are fubar because they dont clip each other
15:12<@peter1138>Infinite maps! Like Minecraft! Except they're not infinite!
15:12<Diablo-D3>so you can have 9000 ships all docked at that tiny dock
15:12<Rubidium>about 8e18 square meters
15:13<Diablo-D3>Rubidium: yes, and visually, I dont see that.
15:13<andythenorth>peter1138: procedurally generated maps on scroll
15:13<andythenorth>endless maps!
15:13<Rubidium>that's because everything is drawn so extremely huge
15:13<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: nothing is infinite in computers
15:13<Diablo-D3>Rubidium: yup
15:13<andythenorth>but it’s like never-ending story - the other side of the map gets destroyed
15:13<Rubidium>after all, a tile is about 700 by 700 kilometers
15:13<Diablo-D3>andythenorth: and then your horse decides to just give up and die
15:13<andythenorth>in a marsh
15:13<Diablo-D3>in a marsh.
15:14<andythenorth>I only saw that film once, when I was a child
15:14<@peter1138>andythenorth, I have a patch...
15:14<andythenorth>I hated it
15:14<Diablo-D3>that is no kids movie
15:14<andythenorth>peter1138: you probably have a patch for turning lead into gold too :)
15:14<andythenorth>and room temperature fusion
15:14<Diablo-D3>Rubidium: so how do you give that a tile is 700 by 700 km?
15:15*andythenorth tries to remember which peter1138 accuses andythenorth of never shipping :P
15:15<@peter1138>That was probably peter1139
15:15<andythenorth>I hate him
15:15<andythenorth>that one
15:15<@peter1138>Yeah he's a twat.
15:15<andythenorth>the other one is much better
15:15*Diablo-D3 ponders.
15:16<Diablo-D3>how big can a building be in openttd?
15:16<Diablo-D3>like, tile wise
15:16<andythenorth>2x2 for houses
15:16<andythenorth>bigger for industries
15:16<Diablo-D3>I never see 2x2 skyscrapers
15:16<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: i liked that film
15:17<Diablo-D3>how hard is it to decompile a grf and recompile it?
15:18<@peter1138>No
15:18<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: it teaches people that imagination and creativity can create worlds
15:18<andythenorth>It’s log, it’s log, it’s big, it’s heavy, it’s wood! http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?16755-Vancouver-Island-BC-Logging-at-its-Best!&p=504623&viewfull=1#post504623
15:18<@peter1138>Oh, how hard, not is it hard.
15:18<@peter1138>It's not hard to decompile and recompile.
15:18<Diablo-D3>peter1138: ahh
15:18<andythenorth>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C7mNr5WMjA
15:18<@peter1138>It's hard to make changes to a decompiled newGRF though.
15:18<Diablo-D3>because Im wondering if I should take a bunch of town grfs and combine them into something that seems more realistic
15:19<Diablo-D3>like, Im tired of seeing the same buildings over and over
15:19<Diablo-D3>but you cant easily stack town grfs either
15:19<@peter1138>I would recommend against it if you had to ask that question :P
15:19<Eddi|zuHause>andythenorth: maybe you like this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C_HReR_McQ :p
15:20<Diablo-D3>peter1138: meh
15:20<Diablo-D3>This is usually why I quit playing openttd for like a year at a time
15:20<Diablo-D3>its too frustrating to play.
15:20<@peter1138>Diddums.
15:21<Diablo-D3>like, I'd run a server thats loaded up with newgrfs
15:21<Diablo-D3>but people dont play newgrfs
15:21<Diablo-D3>theyre obsessed with the same boring shit over and over
15:21*andythenorth attempts to make internets
15:21<Diablo-D3>the same dozen trains, the lack of useful veh play
15:22<andythenorth>I have to process a form
15:22<andythenorth>wish me luck
15:22<Diablo-D3>first thing a player does in a game?
15:22<Diablo-D3>makes a fucking train.
15:22<andythenorth>make a train, haul pax, make money
15:22<Diablo-D3>players shouldnt even be able to afford trains
15:22<andythenorth>make another train, haul more pax, make money
15:22<Diablo-D3>it should be vehicles
15:22<andythenorth>[WIN]
15:23<andythenorth>Diablo-D3: all this can changed in newgrf
15:23<Diablo-D3>yes but
15:23<Diablo-D3>[03:21:29] <Diablo-D3> like, I'd run a server thats loaded up with newgrfs
15:23<Diablo-D3>[03:21:34] <Diablo-D3> but people dont play newgrfs
15:23<Diablo-D3>[03:21:44] <Diablo-D3> theyre obsessed with the same boring shit over and over
15:23<andythenorth>wtf ‘people'
15:23<andythenorth>just play the game
15:23<Diablo-D3>I dont like playing it single player
15:23*andythenorth [mostly] makes newgrfs for self
15:24<Diablo-D3>and the AIs arent good enough to replace people yet
15:25-!-Lars [~Lars@0x55512b16.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:26-!-Lars [~Lars@0x55512b16.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd
15:26-!-mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ
15:27-!-kero [~keikoz@37.175.24.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:28-!-Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
15:29-!-Lars [~Lars@0x55512b16.adsl.cybercity.dk] has left #openttd []
15:31<@peter1138>Problem with people is they always complain all the time.
15:32<Eddi|zuHause>"but if you make it better, they will complain less" --- no.
15:32<Eddi|zuHause>it's like "if you give the politicians more money, they have less incentive to be corrupt"... also no.
15:33<Eddi|zuHause>no amount of money will ever make you stop wanting more money.
15:33<andythenorth>lot’s of philosophy here today
15:33<Diablo-D3>I dont want money.
15:33<Diablo-D3>So lol.
15:33<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: but that's totally independent on which amount of money you have
15:34<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: well no, I'd like to have a little bit more money for my discretionary fund.
15:34<Diablo-D3>but other than that, Im fine
15:35<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: if you had double or half the amount of money than you have now, you'd have that exact same thought about more money
15:35<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: double? no
15:35<Diablo-D3>that'd be more than I need.
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: the things you need scale very quickly with the amount you have
15:36-!-montalvo [~montalvo@ip24-253-22-95.lv.lv.cox.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
15:36<Diablo-D3>not really.
15:36<Diablo-D3>I have almost everything I want.
15:36<Diablo-D3>and I have everything I need
15:36<Eddi|zuHause>that's why professional football players are usually broke within 2 years of ending their carreer
15:37<Diablo-D3>yes, because they buy shit they dont need
15:37<Diablo-D3>I'd rather put money away just in case I need it in the future instead of spend it now
15:38<Taede>depends on wether you use actual need or perceived need
15:38<Diablo-D3>food, clothing, roof over head, electric bill, internet bill.
15:38<Diablo-D3>thats what I need.
15:38<andythenorth>meh
15:38<Diablo-D3>anything else is a want.
15:39<andythenorth>python multidict
15:39*andythenorth has to learn how to use it
15:39<andythenorth>oh look at that :o
15:39<andythenorth>I wrote a theming interface
15:39<andythenorth>clever me
15:39<Diablo-D3>can the HQ graphics be set my newgrf?
15:40<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: see, and if you had more money, you'd get more expensive food, finer clothing, bigger house, more electricity, bigger internet
15:40<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: so your needs scale with what you have
15:40<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: more expensive food?
15:40<andythenorth>you can be in the top 5% of the country, or the top 2% world-wide, and you still don’t feel comfortable
15:40<Diablo-D3>dude, beef is already $8+/pound
15:40<juzza1>Diablo-D3: yes
15:40<Diablo-D3>it already IS expensive
15:40<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: but maybe you'd get kobe beef?
15:41<Diablo-D3>nope
15:41<Diablo-D3>I mean, I already buy grass raised grass finished beef when I can find it
15:41<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: or bio beef?
15:41<Diablo-D3>I dont particularly want anything "higher" grade because it isnt
15:43<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: think of the other direction. half the money you have now. you'd get cheaper food, cheaper clothes, smaller house, less electricity, less internet.
15:43<Eddi|zuHause>you'd get by all the same
15:44<Eddi|zuHause>but if your money actually is halved money instantly, you'd go bankrupt
15:44-!-KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
15:44<Eddi|zuHause>if it were half from the start, you'd not even consider it
15:44<Rubidium>food is cheap
15:44<Eddi|zuHause>we'd have the exact same discussion about "i have all i need"
15:44<Eddi|zuHause>because that is just your personality
15:47<Rubidium>in 1900 (on average) about 40% of household spenditure was on food, in 1950 about 30%, now it's around 15% (in the US)
15:48<Diablo-D3>[03:43:41] <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: think of the other direction. half the money you have now. you'd get cheaper food, cheaper clothes, smaller house, less electricity, less internet.
15:48<Diablo-D3>I survive on about $8xx a month.
15:48<Eddi|zuHause>so? other people survive on 1$ a day
15:48<Diablo-D3>there is no cheaper food, cheaper clothes, smaller house, less electricity, or less internet
15:49<Eddi|zuHause>and among those, you still find people who are happy with what they have
15:51<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: no, they dont survive.
15:51<Diablo-D3>which is the problem.
15:53<frosch123>why is this so spamy today?
15:53<frosch123>go, code ottd!
15:55<Diablo-D3>frosch123: well, according to this channel, openttd is so badly coded that it'd be impossible to rewrite or even clone effectively
15:55<frosch123>what does the current code matter, if you rewrite it?
15:55<Eddi|zuHause>nobody said that. you can clone openttd in a matter of seconds
15:56<Eddi|zuHause>or minutes, if you include compile time
15:56<frosch123>also, every code is bad after a few days
15:57<frosch123>some even after some seconds
15:57<Diablo-D3>frosch123: well, I refuse to do c++
15:58<Diablo-D3>its probably why openttd has gotten to the point it is now
15:58<frosch123>what do you prefer?
15:58<frosch123>maybe we have some task for your language
15:58-!-oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd
15:59<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: you can do assembler programming for TTDPatch, if that helps.
16:00<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: openttd did get to the point it is now because c++ is a way better choice than assembler
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: c++ might not be the best choice of languages, but it certainly is a "reasonable enough to get things done" language
16:01<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: Im not saying use assembler
16:01<Diablo-D3>Im saying c++ isnt even a language, its at least 5 different languages depending on which subset of features you use
16:01<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: and openttd definitely has more to show for than any of the dozen "i rewrite openttd in a better language" projects
16:02<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: thats the wrong argument imo
16:02<frosch123>Eddi|zuHause: just let him name a language
16:02<frosch123>he still hasn't
16:02<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: that may be true, but you still didn't answer the question "what is a better language"?
16:03<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: also, switching languages does not necessarily require a full rewrite. openttd switched languages in the past
16:04<Rubidium>Eddi|zuHause: obviously Ido or Esperanto
16:04<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: C is a better language imo
16:04<Diablo-D3>but Ive been meaning to look at rust
16:05<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: then why did we move away from C?
16:05-!-Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit []
16:05<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: lack of programming skill? you'll have to answer that yourself.
16:06<Diablo-D3>c++ is "fine" if you're not writing a library, you're not using any existing c++ libraries, and you dont use stdc++ or boost either
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: (*spoiler alert*: because we spent a lot of time re-implementing c++ features, which created a huge mess)
16:06<Diablo-D3>or templates
16:06*andythenorth likes PHP
16:06<andythenorth>PHP-openttd
16:06<Diablo-D3>andythenorth: and this is why you should never be allowed to code
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: we use 5 times nested templates...
16:06<andythenorth>we’ll get loads of patches
16:06<andythenorth>imagine the flood of new contributors
16:06<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: and that is the best thing that ever happened to openttd
16:06<@peter1138>Don't forget the macros
16:06<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: yeah, and until that goes away, I will never code on openttd
16:06<andythenorth>Diablo-D3: fortunately there are no code police
16:06<Diablo-D3>andythenorth: *un-
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: then check out openttd 0.4
16:07<andythenorth>what’s wrong with PHP?
16:07<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: it doesn'T have any C++
16:07<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: meh.
16:07<@peter1138>Let's face it
16:07<Diablo-D3>This conversation has gone on for too long.
16:07<Diablo-D3>I dont want to recode openttd, I just want to enjoy it.
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: your entire discussion is religious in nature
16:08<Diablo-D3>Eddi|zuHause: not really
16:08<Diablo-D3>c++ makes it too difficult to figure out what the code actually does
16:08<Eddi|zuHause>"your religion is worse than my religion, because it has the exact same rules, but uses different words for them"
16:09<@peter1138>Why does everyone feed the troll, anyway?
16:09<andythenorth>is PHP written in C++?
16:09<andythenorth>or Ruby?
16:09<Diablo-D3>and makes it very hard to statically analyze it because the spec is incomplete and conflicts with itself
16:09<andythenorth>what is PHP written in?
16:09<Diablo-D3>peter1138: eddi isnt a troll, hes just misinformed
16:09<Eddi|zuHause>"your koran is worse than my bible, because it contains the same stories, only with a slightly more modern touch"
16:09<Diablo-D3>andythenorth: php is in c++ I think
16:09<andythenorth>Diablo-D3: it’s PHP
16:09<andythenorth>not php
16:10<Diablo-D3>andythenorth: please leave.
16:10<frosch123>it's funny that d3 names c as better than c++ :p when all the fundamental problems of c++ are in its c inheritance :p
16:11<frosch123>rust otoh is on an entirely different planet
16:11<Eddi|zuHause>just port openttd to D
16:11<Diablo-D3>D isnt a bad language, but not many people use it
16:11<@peter1138>frosch123, it's funny because he obviously doesn't even code
16:11<andythenorth>can we recode OpenTTD in Rails?
16:11<andythenorth>seems appropriate
16:11<frosch123>peter1138: yup :)
16:12<+glx>andythenorth: don't be silly
16:12<@peter1138>andythenorth, I'd suggest Ruby, rather than Rails which is a web framework on Ruby.
16:12<frosch123>if someone says that c is better than c++ because c++ makes it too difficult to follow, he apparently hasn't coded anything beyond 500 lines
16:12<andythenorth>he could write a code generator?
16:12<@peter1138>I quite like all the thinly veiled insults too.
16:13<frosch123>hmm, ruby recoding ottd while on rails?
16:13<frosch123>sounds reasonable
16:13<andythenorth>whilst True: print(‘\n’)
16:13<Eddi|zuHause>"this is openttd. and this is openttd on rails"...
16:14-!-welterde [welterde@000133b4.user.oftc.net] has quit [Server closed connection]
16:15-!-welterde [welterde@000133b4.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd
16:21-!-Klanticus_ [~quassel@179.159.11.64] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:23<frosch123>ho! my coffee mug wasn't empty
16:23<frosch123>what a pleasant surprise
16:25<andythenorth>winner is you
16:31<@peter1138>But was it hot?
16:31<frosch123>it wasn't cold
16:32-!-sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.137.74.191] has quit []
16:34<andythenorth>maybe I can play SV again soon
16:34<andythenorth>it’s fortunate that there is at least one good GS :)
16:34<Diablo-D3>[04:11:54] <peter1138> frosch123, it's funny because he obviously doesn't even code
16:34<Diablo-D3>who doesnt?
16:35<Diablo-D3>[04:12:47] <frosch123> if someone says that c is better than c++ because c++ makes it too difficult to follow, he apparently hasn't coded anything beyond 500 lines
16:35<Diablo-D3>frosch123: not at all
16:35<Eddi|zuHause>i must be the only person on the planet who is not addicted to coffee
16:35<Diablo-D3>I want the code to be accessible to others
16:35<Diablo-D3>this is why I dont write everything in lisp and haskell and erlang
16:35<Diablo-D3>because most people cant handle it
16:35<andythenorth>why not use PHP then?
16:36<andythenorth>PHP is the most accessible programming language
16:36<@planetmaker>Eddi|zuHause, untrue. I can live on tea alone. Well nearly. Except steaks. And chocolate ice cream :P
16:36<@planetmaker>and cookies and cakes and... :P
16:36<Eddi|zuHause>well, tea has basically the same content as coffee :p
16:37<frosch123>steaks and ice cream are hardly as important as the others
16:37<Eddi|zuHause>i mean the 'active' content
16:37<Diablo-D3>andythenorth: php is not a programming language
16:37<frosch123>i would add yoghurt though :p
16:37<Diablo-D3>it is a scripting language that has gotten out of hand
16:37<Diablo-D3>I really wish people would stop using it
16:37<Diablo-D3>use python, use ruby, use javascript server side, all suck but are still better options than php
16:38<andythenorth>PHP is the best programming language in the world
16:38<andythenorth>that’s why it’s the most popular
16:38<Diablo-D3>can someone kickban andy?
16:38<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26691 trunk/src/widgets/dropdown.cpp (2014-07-16 20:38:36 UTC)
16:38<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Simplify ShowDropDownListAt (Juanjo)
16:38<Diablo-D3>andythenorth: and no, c, objc, and java are the most popular
16:38<andythenorth>I doubt it
16:38<Eddi|zuHause>Diablo-D3: for what? making the exact same argument as you?
16:39<frosch123>@kban Diablo-D3 123456 don't disrupt my patch reviews
16:39-!-mode/#openttd [+b *!~diablo@pool-71-241-217-183.port.east.myfairpoint.net] by DorpsGek
16:39-!-Diablo-D3 was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [don't disrupt my patch reviews]
16:39-!-Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:a5ee:e5c0:df7:5ef1] has quit [Quit: .]
16:39<frosch123>everyone can go home now
16:39<frosch123>nothing to see
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>i'm not making this up, am i? he's pure religion about languages. no factual argument
16:40<ST2>cmon.... I still have popcorns ^^
16:40<ST2>anyway, he was angry at something/someone :S
16:40<+glx>as always
16:40<Eddi|zuHause>ST2: yes. religions do that to people
16:41<ST2>oh well, I hope he get better ^^
16:41<Eddi|zuHause>let me issue my doubts
16:41<andythenorth>dunno why I hate strftime so much
16:41<andythenorth>it’s perfectly sensible
16:41<andythenorth>but fiddly
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>@calc 123456/60/60/24
16:42<@DorpsGek>Eddi|zuHause: 1.42888888889
16:42<Eddi|zuHause>frosch123: so you're done by friday? :p
16:43<andythenorth>this is *not* the appropriate datetime format for my locale :P
16:43<andythenorth>Wed Jul 16 21:42:33 2014
16:43<andythenorth>lies
16:47-!-sylvieL [~sylvie@dhcp-077-251-165-191.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
16:47-!-sylvieL [~sylvie@dhcp-077-251-165-191.chello.nl] has quit []
16:54-!-Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:54<@planetmaker>oh, the diabolic bot is gone :P
16:56<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26692 /trunk/src (depot_map.h order_gui.cpp) (2014-07-16 20:56:39 UTC)
16:56<@DorpsGek>-Fix [FS#6059]: Ordering a vehicle to a competitor's rail waypoint displayed an error message. Ignore the click as is done for the other order types to competitor's stuff. (Juanjo)
16:57-!-FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd
17:00<@planetmaker>o/ nice commits, frosch123 :)
17:03*andythenorth -> bed
17:03<andythenorth>bye
17:04<@planetmaker>bye
17:04<Rubidium>bye andy
17:05-!-LSky` [LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit []
17:05-!-andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
17:06<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26693 trunk/src/order_gui.cpp (2014-07-16 21:06:45 UTC)
17:06<@DorpsGek>-Codechange: Simplify GetOrderCmdFromTile (Juanjo)
17:07-!-kais58__ is now known as kais58|AFK
17:09<frosch123>planetmaker: i messed up though :p half of 92 should have been in 93
17:10<@planetmaker>hm :)
17:11-!-montalvo [~montalvo@ip24-253-22-95.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #openttd
17:12<@planetmaker>I took a look earlier at the more height level patch series. It surprisingly seemed much smaller than previous incarnations, about 20 patches or so and rather reasonably ordered and documented
17:13-!-montalvo [~montalvo@ip24-253-22-95.lv.lv.cox.net] has quit []
17:13-!-Progman [~progman@p57A1BA14.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:13<@planetmaker>not quite fit for trunk (e.g. still uses extra grf file), but...
17:13<@planetmaker>... in a direction one could go. But adds another byte to the map array
17:15<FLHerne>Is the non-workingness of the '[FS#nnnn]' links on http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/ a known/ignored feature?
17:15<frosch123>yay, just rediscovered the best 1.5 feature: update grfs :)
17:15<@planetmaker>yup :)
17:16<Rubidium>planetmaker: it adds a byte, but frees half a byte which *could* be used as cache for the slope or something like that which is fairly expensive to compute
17:16<@planetmaker>yes
17:17<@planetmaker>it also does a few other things which I haven't gone through yet entirely
17:18<@planetmaker>or which I'm not too sure about. Like introducing these all-black tiles to speed-up drawing on map borders
17:18<Rubidium>also... you might be able to store the tile height as diff to the tile directly north of it (which'd be -2..2, so would fit in the cache nibble). Only needs a byte for the initial height of the northern tile
17:19<frosch123>planetmaker: so, you were able to reproduce fs#6063?
17:19-!-Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd
17:20<frosch123>planetmaker: the black tiles are something i never understood
17:20<frosch123>already in trunk they are weird
17:20<@planetmaker>frosch123, yes, it crashed for me as well
17:20<@planetmaker>FS#6063
17:20<frosch123>well, it doesn't crash for me :p
17:20<Rubidium>some news setting?
17:21<Rubidium>it's from the order check
17:21<@planetmaker>hm, that *might* be
17:21<Rubidium>(not related to the depot at all)
17:21<frosch123>hmm, maybe the depot order needs to be the current order
17:21<frosch123>oh, i need to enable the order check maybe :p
17:22<@planetmaker>maybe *current* needs to be, too. Though I don't think
17:22<frosch123>yeah, now it crashed
17:22<@planetmaker>it crashed *after* I replaced the invalid order by a valid one again
17:27<frosch123>the invalid order causes the previous travel to change to "not timetabled"
17:27<@planetmaker>hm
17:35<Eddi|zuHause>i'd rather put the height of the 4 tile corners in the free nibble, to allow cliffs and stuff
17:35<frosch123>that's called "slope"
17:35<frosch123>but a slope needs 5 bits
17:37*planetmaker would also want to separate the landscape type for more joy with diverse landscapes
17:37<@planetmaker>that needs at least one additional bit
17:37<Eddi|zuHause>just extend the map to 64 bits
17:37<@planetmaker>:P
17:38<@planetmaker>that will add *a lot* of boilerplate
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>it's really not hard to do
17:38<@planetmaker>it's easy, yes
17:38<@planetmaker>and near-double savegame size
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>it would also solve this messy separation into 2 arrays
17:38<Eddi|zuHause>because you don't have this alignment trouble anymore
17:38<frosch123>can you timetable conditional orders?
17:39<Eddi|zuHause>i don't think so
17:39<@planetmaker>good question. sounds messy
17:39<Eddi|zuHause>you can't timetable a wait time for depot orders, only a travel time
17:40<Eddi|zuHause>similar to waypoints
17:45-!-gelignite [~gelignite@i5387AEC7.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/nkczDT]
17:47-!-oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []
17:58<@peter1138>Eddi|zuHause, huh?
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>what?
17:58<@peter1138>Tile is already 64 bits.
17:58<@peter1138>TileExtended is another 8 bits.
17:58<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: i thought it was 32?
17:58<@peter1138>So you want to extend 72 bits to 64 bits? Heh
17:59<Eddi|zuHause>whatver, then i meant 128
17:59<@peter1138>Don't see how that's helpful
17:59<Eddi|zuHause>32 does sound a bit low, now that you say it
18:00<Eddi|zuHause>well, i meant that you get rid of this tileextended, whose only purpose is to not blow up the array size due to alignment
18:01<@peter1138>But needless nearly doubling the memory usage makes sense to you?
18:02<Eddi|zuHause>peter1138: it's not needless if you're adding more stuff anyway
18:02<@peter1138>Only if you're adding stuff that needs another 56 bits...
18:02<@peter1138>I saw 1 byte above. 80 bits is still considerably smaller than 128 bits.
18:03<Eddi|zuHause>data is like an ideal gas. if you extend the space, it automatically fills it instantly :p
18:03-!-Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
18:04<@planetmaker>except with data there is 0 theoretical probability that it will shrink ;)
18:04<Eddi|zuHause>if you dig even a little bit, you find loads of things that would probably improve things if they were added to the map array
18:04<Eddi|zuHause>my suggestion is to extend the map array in one step, and then add these little things. instead of extending the map array for each little thing
18:05<@peter1138>Sure, loads of limits suddenly disappear.
18:05<frosch123>http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3506/ <- fs#6063
18:05<frosch123>the invalid orders are set to zero wait time, all travel times are preserved
18:13<@planetmaker>that hunk is in the place where the order destination is invalidated?
18:14<frosch123>yes, MakeDummy turns the order into an invalid one
18:14<frosch123>funnily there is only one place, which does that :p
18:14<@planetmaker>:)
18:14<Eddi|zuHause>oh god! good code design! where did you find that?!
18:15-!-kais58|AFK is now known as kais58__
18:18<@peter1138>D3 did it?
18:19<@peter1138>As none of us is a real programmer, and have no programming skills...
18:20<frosch123>i can confirm that. most real programmers have no programming skills
18:20<@planetmaker>:D
18:25<@DorpsGek>Commit by frosch :: r26694 trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp (2014-07-16 22:24:55 UTC)
18:25<@DorpsGek>-Fix (r26547) [FS#6063]: When orders become invalid, reset the waiting time, but keep the travel time.
18:25<frosch123>night
18:26-!-frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d0099b4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn]
18:58-!-LadyHawk- [~LadyHawk@5751e87a.skybroadband.com] has joined #openttd
19:06-!-LadyHawk [~LadyHawk@5751e87a.skybroadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:06-!-LadyHawk- is now known as LadyHawk
19:09-!-yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:23-!-theholyduck [~theholydu@172.245.30.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:24-!-theholyduck [~theholydu@172.245.30.36] has joined #openttd
19:29-!-pthagnar [~pthagnar@cpc7-pres17-2-0-cust28.18-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd
19:31-!-FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!]
19:54-!-Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:05-!-Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit []
20:37-!-mrdaft [~mrdaft@174.84.239.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:45-!-Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd
20:48-!-Flygon__ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd
20:49-!-KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:52-!-Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20:54-!-kero [~keikoz@37.175.1.149] has joined #openttd
20:55-!-Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20:56-!-Vadtec [~Vadtec@vadtec.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
20:56-!-mrdaft [~mrdaft@174.84.239.58] has joined #openttd
21:00-!-Vadtec [~Vadtec@vadtec.net] has joined #openttd
21:10-!-Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
21:10-!-Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
21:19-!-glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye]
21:38-!-Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd
21:45-!-kero [~keikoz@37.175.1.149] has quit [Quit: kero]
22:06-!-mrdaft is now known as smb_
22:21-!-wakou [~stephen@host86-145-17-79.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:23-!-KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
22:23-!-KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd
22:30-!-HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6B21C.versanet.de] has joined #openttd
22:31-!-Flygon__ is now known as Flygon
22:36-!-tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-40-117.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd
22:42-!-tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
23:03-!-MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:12-!-luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz
23:15-!-dyrim [sid28134@id-28134.charlton.irccloud.com] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
23:17-!-MTsPony is now known as MTsPony_zzz
23:46-!-KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:47-!-KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd
---Logclosed Thu Jul 17 00:00:55 2014